 Why do you feel so strongly about Matt Rule? What do you know about Matt Rule? How many college coaches have made it big? Don't you think the Giants need a sure thing here? So you're McCarthy guys, right? I am. Yeah. I'm not opposed to McCarthy. I mean, he's won. Now grant that he's been given the, you know, two of the best quarterbacks in the history of football and he's won one time, but I'm not opposed to McCarthy. I just think the Giants, we've been through this a million times. They need a CEO, they need a leader. Matt Rule exemplifies that. He went to Temple, which is not even a real football program and they beat Penn State first time since 1941. He leaves there, he goes to Baylor. They're one and 11. Our brawls is the joke of college football and he leads them into an overtime away from being in the college football playoff this year. This guy is a winner. He actually. Wait a minute. He has won two games against ranked teams in the seven years as a head coach in college, too. But he won. He was at Temple, Michael. And he took over a program in Baylor that was almost on the death penalty. They were the laughing stock of college football. But this guy has no NFL experience other than one year under Tom Coughlin. One? What is his NFL experience? You like Tom Coughlin, yes? Yes. Okay, what does Tom Coughlin say about him? Loves him. What do the Marys say about him? Love him. Do you really want the Marys? That's a problem. Why is that a problem? Because it seems like when they've done it, the Giants, way recently, they've gotten it wrong. Shermer was like the giant way. That was the guy or McAdoo. I'm a little down on John Marar, okay? I don't blame you. I think everybody should be. So when I'm hearing that he's in love with somebody or this is the perfect pick for the giant way, that makes me want to steer in a different direction. That's why, you know, Steve Tish getting involved to me is a good thing. Maybe a little breath of fresh air. But it's got to get you nervous, Don. Now you have two guys who may not know a ton of basketball running things. I understand that, but I'm not saying that Steve Tish knows exactly what he's doing, but I think he is that voice of, hey guys, we've tried at the Giants way, the flagship franchise way, you know, the winning way. Well, it hasn't worked right now. And listen, I'm a John Marar fan, I like him. I personally like him, okay? I grew up a fan of this team, all right? But since Wellington passed away and Ernie of course he's gone, when John hasn't made the best decisions, he's followed his heart and his heart has betrayed him multiple times here. So when I hear that it's the perfect marriage for John Marar, I don't know if that's the right thing to do. Look, you could be right. I don't have all the answers. All I'm saying is from everything that we've read about rule, from people I've spoken to, Paul Feinbaum, who I respect a lot says he is going to be a great NFL coach. The Jets were desperate for him last year. He seems like the right hire. Now, I have no issue with Mike McCarthy. If the Giants hire Mike McCarthy, I'm fine with that. If they hire Jason Garrett, then I'm gonna have a major problem. But rule or McCarthy, I'm fine with either of those guys. I would prefer rule. Your partner on the show says they should stop interviewing people right now and just hire Mike McCarthy. How do you feel about the fact that rule said, well, I'm gonna spend a week in Cabo. Well, so who cares? So what? He didn't demand. He said no to the Browns. Ralph Vakyan had a report that said the only job he would even consider taking at this point to leave Baylor Four is the Giants. So the guy just finished a grueling season. He's going on vacation. And when he comes back, he'll talk to the Giants. But it doesn't seem like there's a sense of urgency to get this job. Well, I disagree. I mean, the Browns came after him. He said no way. He says no to any other team. The only job he even would leave Baylor Four is the Giants. He needs a respite. He needs a break. And who knows? Maybe they'll fly down to Cabo wherever he is and talk to them. But that doesn't bother me as much as it bothers Michael. They've just, they're over for their last two. All right, miserably over for their last two. You don't get it completely with us. Joaquin and Duhar swinging strikeouts. You know, like no clue what they're doing. So you now want to take a chance. He's an unknown commodity. I don't care what you did in college. It's what you can do in the NFL. Can you make that a judgment? But you don't know, Don. And you don't know. But at least I got a guy in Mike McCarthy. You could say, well, he had FARV and he had Rodgers. But you know, you can't, you don't think he might have had something to do with the development of Aaron Rodgers? I'm not opposed to McCarthy. He went to the playhouse at nine of 13 years and won a Super Bowl. I get it. So at least there's more of a known commodity there. The, what is it, 80% of the time, maybe more, the jump from college to the pros is not a good one. Outside of Jimmy Johnson and maybe Harbaugh, where's all the success stories? Yeah, you're a football savant. Where's the college coach that became a good NFL coach other than Jimmy? I tell you, I gave him a list of 50 guys. I think David Shaw would be a good, good college coach going to the NFL. That was a crap shoot too. But I mean, Lew Holtz couldn't even last a season. Steve Spurry was a joke. Nick Saban lasted two years with the Dolphins. Great college coaches couldn't do it. Great college coach. Nick Saban also, if they would have gotten Drew Brees, I think it would have been a different feel. But you're right. I mean, these guys have not succeeded. But Lew Holtz, come on. Lew Holtz wasn't going to succeed in the NFL. But he was a great college coach. Bill Walsh is pretty good now. He turned out good. Yeah, that was a good one. OK, so it's not like it's an impossibility. But the odds are against it. But Bill Walsh went back to Stanford after San Francisco and didn't have the same success. I mean, Bill Walsh established himself in the NFL. I don't think of him as a college guy. But he was a college guy. But he was at Stanford. Right? I mean, guys have succeeded in college. But it's still few and far between. It's not like there's 10 a year that are taken from college to the NFL. And none of them succeed. It's few and far between. I think you're getting caught up in the fact that everybody's in love with him because he fits the type in the NFL now. He's 41 years old. Everybody wants that. Nobody wants the old retread coach in the NFL anymore. Everybody wants the young college guy or young assistant. That's what everybody wants now. And I think that's why everybody's in love with him. And he kind of built his numbers up by saying no to an NFL team last year and saying no to the Jets. Isn't that he's not willing to jump. He's a guy that's in demand. And he understands that he's going to wait till the right job comes along. And he looks at Daniel Jones and looks at Barclay, looks at the Giants. But the fact that you're patient doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to be able to make the adjustment. And if the Giants were so interested in rule, right, then why did you keep Gettleman? Because you know rule's going to want to come in and really have a major say. So why didn't the Giants just wipe the slate clean? I don't have the answer for that. I mean, I was, you know, captaining, moving on from Dave Gettleman. I don't think he's done a lot of good here. I think almost every movie's made. And even on your show yesterday, he said that Pat Shermer was kind of the impotence for going after Daniel Jones. So I don't honestly, and it's not that I don't think he's a nice guy. I don't understand why he's still employed as the Giants general manager today.