 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, for about 20 minutes we talk about starting a cult. We also talk about the evolution and value of men and women to society. Yes, we touched that third rail. After that we start answering some pretty good questions. The first question we answer is, how do you handle being in a relationship with someone who's not into fitness and health like you are? How do you dance around that? How do you get them motivated? Then we talk about... I was podcasting very hard in this section. We talk about something called Butt Wink. Is it something you do at a bar when you're trying to get someone's attention? Or does it happen when you squat? Find out in this episode. Then we talk about training kids. When is it appropriate to start children on fitness routines? Hit those weights, kids. Lastly, we talk about the big Zs. How important is sleep? Is it help with fat loss, muscle building? Is it important to get adequate sleep? Or should you stay up all night and party every single day? We talk a lot in this episode about correctional exercises. We refer to our Maps Prime program, which has a self-assessment tool. We also talk about Maps Anywhere, which is our equipment-free program. You can find those at mindpumpmedia.com. You can also find our Summer Starter Pack. We have a lot of new listeners coming to us from some of the interviews we've done on other podcasts. We decided we wanted to put something together for someone who's just getting... Organize it, make it easy, and give you great structure right out of the gates. Give you everything you need. We included our foundational Maps program, which is Maps Anabolic. Then we included Maps Prime, which I just talked about. Our nutrition and fasting guide, so you've got that food intake part down. Then we included our Facebook forum, where you can go and ask questions. You can post videos of your exercise form for other trainers and other fitness professionals to critique. We've put that all together and discounted it almost like 60%. I believe it's almost 60%. So it's pretty awesome. It's all at mindpumpmedia.com. Lastly, Adam talks a lot about Brain FM. This is an app that you sign up for. You can listen to it. It actually helps put your brain into certain alpha and beta waves, depending on what you want to be in, whether it's meditation, whether it's sleep, or whether you want to have more focus. Now, with Mind Pump, you get... Game changer. It's huge. With Mind Pump, you get 20% off. All you got to do is go to brain.fm forward slash mind pump. So without any further ado, here we are talking about some cool stuff, including the cults. Raise us up. Raise it up. We're in your hands, Jesus. Raise us up. You're going to start burning here in a minute. Can I just... Let's all be honest. It's a good thing I'm not super religious. It's not a bad thing. I would be so annoyed with you. You guys joke around about me going to hell, but let's be honest. If I was super religious, I might have a cult. I might have a cult. You balanced this out. Pretty sure you would. Adam would for sure be like my fucking... That'd be my dude right there, my right hand man. You know what I mean? You're deacon. Yeah. Yeah. And then... What would I be? Oh, you'd be the hammer. Okay. Yeah, I'd be like, hey, I'd be like... Yeah, the enforcer. Justin, I want you to go and fucking crack down on the sinners in the cult. Okay. Because some of them are... Oh, man. Some of them are not sleeping with me. Right. Yeah, like the inquisition. Like I'm the inquisitioner. Like you want to purify your soul? Yeah. It only happens through sex with Sal. Okay. That's horrible. I sound... I sound like I thought about this, you know? Yeah. I sound like I thought about being a cult leader. Yeah. God, it's horrible. Took a page out of David Koresh. You know how weird is it though that people will actually do that? They'll actually go into a cult and like do everything that that person... Yeah. Like the craziest shit. Well, it doesn't start like that, right? It only starts with like... They just like take what's already there and like what people are familiar with and then they like just get you all comfortable with that. And then they slowly start introducing these like crazy ass ideas. But what is it in the human psyche that makes people do stuff? I'll tell you this. There's a great quote. It's, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And so what these great cult leaders do is they do an incredible job. You just said great. Yeah. Well, I mean if you get a bunch of people to jump off a cliff together just by telling them, I mean you're pretty good at it. You're pretty... You know, you're pretty good at it. My favorite thing by the way is when you take a phrase and then you reverse it. Like people use that all the time for philosophies and for quotes. What do you mean? Oh, I love those. Yeah, philosophical stuff that's like... It's like the Lang Sue that... Like in is really out. When out is really good. Exactly. You just flip it. Yeah. That's like every fucking quote I've ever heard. Like, oh my God, it's so profound. He just fucking reversed it. Whoa! Some of them are, you're so funny. I love that shit. So yeah, but I mean when you think about it that's what they do is they come in, they win everybody over. It's no different than any cult or any leader like that. Like when they come in and they win everybody over through showing how much they care about them and how genuine they are and their passion. So once they... Then the real message comes later. You know what I'm saying? It's like let me gather you in, show you how much I love you and care about you. But now let me tell you what we're going to do. I'm going deeper than that. I'm going deeper than that. What if you have a wife? She's my wife. But okay, so there's something in our brains. It's the need for affirmation. It's the desire for us to get constant affirmation, whether you're male, female or what. And some of us need it more than others. And that desire... Yeah, but what is it that... Because there's cults have happened through all the history. People have done shit that when they step out of it, look back and they go, what the fuck was I doing? Like all these things. What is it in the human psyche? Why did we evolve to have this susceptibility to just blindly follow shit and do stuff that... Here's my favorite quote. Here's my favorite quote of all time. I'm just following orders. Let's think about that for a second. I know. That's a quote? Well... Yes. Soldiers... A lot of people have said it. That's what it is. Well, a lot of people say some dumb shit that's up there with it. Well, no, no, no. Think about it. You see a cop doing some horrible shit and they're like, listen, I'm just following orders. Or a soldier killing people and I'm just following orders. Or the people involved with the Nazi regime or the Communist parties when they were killing... Well, they're deflecting. Yeah, I'm just following orders. But it's almost like excusable. Like, well, he was following orders. But why? It's so weird. And they've done this in studies. There's like so many tests where they'll... Well, you're trying to get it from an evolutionary state is what you're trying to figure out. It's just fucking weird. Well, here's the thing. Fuck orders. We were just talking about something the other day too that like... I feel you did. We refer back to like, why did the body evolve this way back when we could only get food, this, that. And there's a lot of good theories on why the body evolved the way it did when we talk about eating and diet and things like that. But then there's also a lot of culture things and stuff that... And the evolution of technology and societies and that have now influenced and changed our evolution. Like, even the fact that like the whole clothes thing and feeling insecure and like making... Like, there's so much marketing and advertising that's gone that way that's totally changed how people need this affirmation all the time. That you wouldn't need that, you know, thousands of years ago. Not like you do now because it's in your face like 24-7. So there's some things that I feel like we've recently in... By recent, I mean in the last like thousand years or even a few hundred years where we've evolved because of television and magazines and things that... You weren't comparing yourself or thinking about others like the way you are now. Like probably like 500 years ago, you never once give a shit about anybody else but your own family, your own tribe or what's right in front of you. Oh no, no. 100%. It's just smaller. It's a smaller circle but no, it is hardwired in our brain to fit in. It's hardwired and... I mean, do you... One of the easiest, I mean, one of the most common torture ways of torture humans is to put them in isolation or look at the number one fear that all people have is speaking in public. But do you think... Something that'll never kill you. Do you think that like something like the isolation thing is torture for everybody or don't you think that some people that's not tortured? I'm sure there's outliers that are out there but for the most part... I mean, Bundy was doing awesome by himself. Well, yeah, right away I think of the example of my sister and I when we were kids, like that's how we got... And that was torture for me because I just need that. But I'm talking about true isolation, like locked in a cell. Well, it felt like it was prison when my parents put me in the bedroom and said you can't go outside and play with my window open and I could hear all the kids playing outside. That's pretty close to being... Sal was like, it's cool dude. More encyclopedia time. Yeah, that's how I feel. I feel like you just flip it on its head. That's what my sister just said. My sister was like, oh, it's great. It's doll time. That's awesome. You know what I'm saying? So it's fucking three days in a row of doll time. Of doll time. She wasn't pissed at all. Adam had doll time too. Yeah, for sure. You know when you take off the Barbie's clothes, they don't have nipples. Too far. So no, it's... It's all smooth. It's just weird to me to look at all that and like we really don't think for ourselves as much as we think we do. Like people just want to be told what to do. That's really what it boils down to I think. When people have a leader, they just want to say, tell me what to do and I'll do it. And it's true when you get clients too. Like how many clients truly want to do it for themselves? Like learn and do it and be able to do it on their own. Not very many. Our job is to teach you how to find that. And that's like... There's a lot of responsibility that comes with a tribe leader, right? There's a lot of responsibility that becomes... It is for the leader. It's easier to follow, right? It's easier to follow. Oh, easier. And because when you make bad decisions as the leader, it's on you. Whereas if you make bad decision or a bad decision or something doesn't go right and you are simply following somebody else, you don't have to take ownership of it. It's like, well, he fucking told us to go there. Oh, they told me to do that or whatever versus, you know, hey, I made this decision and this is what we all did. So there's a lot more pressure for that. Not a lot of people want that pressure. Yeah. If you go all the way back to your life. Oh, I know. I mean, of course. I know that. I don't know. It's just weird how we're wired to be that way and how easy it is to manipulate it. Were we wired or did nature cause that? That's what I want. You know what I'm saying? Were we wired or was it nature? Well, I think it was both. I think it's both. I think both always play a role. But there's definitely a hard-wired environment. There's advantages, right? There's advantages to creating a tight-knit group that everybody contributes and all that. I think that there's just people that manipulate that process. And that's just the... Certain people will look at that as opportunity to pull everybody into their own agenda. Well, I'll tell you what. If you look at all the cult leaders, here's something interesting. From my knowledge, the vast majority of them are men. The vast majority of cult leaders are men. I don't think there's any cult leaders that were women that I can think about. Let's go, ladies. Step up your game. Yeah. You know what that... When I wonder where that's from, part of it I think is because I've seen... Lack of empathy. Well, I've seen all these studies. And I'm not saying why evil... That would be my guess. Well, here's the thing. Yes, part of it. Definitely the male... As a matter of fact, I watched this documentary. I love how assertive he says it. I watched this documentary. Yes, but this is how it really happens. Yeah, exactly. Here comes the truth. Yeah, tell us the truth. Share the truth with us, please. Fuck, I have all the characteristics of a cult leader, don't I? If you... I just actually watched... Not a documentary, a good talk on this yesterday. It was a philosophy. There's this page I belong to where I follow on Facebook. I wish I knew the name now. Everybody's gonna want to know what it is, but it's about philosophy. And there was a scientist who posted a video. And he was talking about how the male brain... It evolved to be an outlier. It evolved to be either exceptional in certain areas or just horrible in others. And he showed this chart of how most people who are mentally ill, most people who are in prison, most people who do these horrible things are men. But on the other side, you've got a lot of leaders, a lot of Nobel Prize winners and all that stuff, which are also men. So he's talking about how the male brain and the male body is disposable. So basically nature takes a lot of chances with the male brain. So in other words, if you have a large population of men and women, and one out of every four women goes off and dies in battle, or one out of every two, in some cases this has happened throughout history, where half the men have died because of war, the population doesn't suffer because a one man can father 10, 15 children. Whereas if half the female population goes off and dies in war or whatever... That's an interesting thing. The species could die. It could die out because it can't replace itself. So that's part of it. Part of it's also men are physically stronger in history. That was important too. And so my point is when you look at even modern studies, where they ask men and women who would they rather have as a boss, more women than even men say they'd rather have a man lead them. So I think that's part of it also. So you combine the fact that more people would rather have a man lead, and this is just objective fact. I'm not being sexist or anything. And also combine that with the fact that men are more likely to be a little psychotic and have narcissistic... That makes great sense. Because if you're in a leadership role like that, you're more likely to go out and get killed in battle or whatever. And at one point, so I don't know if it's hard wire too, or this was like a smart decision. I can just imagine us thousands of years ago sitting next... You're in your little tribe and there's three men and there's three women and the men and women are deciding like, OK, who's going to go out and hunt where all the fucking lions and tigers and bears, oh my are, and who's going to stay here and stay safe. And the women go like, well, we only need one of you to procreate. We don't need all three of you. You know what I'm saying? So it's probably... And the guys are looking at each other like, let's go gamble a little bit and see who comes back and gets to sleep with everybody. Right, exactly. So it might have been women really outsmarting us thousands of years and convincing us that we're better off in that position. And we just got outsmarted, which makes a lot of sense to me because women are just brilliant. We've been selectively harvested. Well, it's interesting. They believe that these women, I think these women were just that smart back then. Well, dude, look at it this way. I have been talking about this for a long time and I don't know if technology will change this, but let's just say we don't become machines in the future, which I think is going to happen anyway. But let's just say it doesn't happen and we end up evolving. I really think we are entering into the era of female dominance pretty soon because all the shit that men... Think about what men look like now. This is all a result of demand, right? I think so. And I think... Women are getting more feminine and women are getting more masculine. They don't want the alpha big muscular... Well, isn't there a group of people that... believe that we're going to evolve into... A homogenous... That's what it's called. A homogenous. Yeah, exactly. Well, and besides that, all the things that men evolve to do, we don't need really anymore. I know. Those skills are dead. Yeah, you don't need to be a hunter and who cares about... Childbirth isn't dangerous like it used to be and all these other things. So I wonder, it's pretty interesting. But yeah, it's an interesting... We're becoming more and more useless. But dude, it's... That's fucking great. Check this out. This is... It's very interesting. I know part of it is societal, but part of it is also evolutionary. You look at the outliers. You look at the bell curve of the people over here who are... And I hate to say it this way, but let's say you're a detriment to society or have mental issues or are more likely to do all these bad things. It's men. But on the other end, when you have these extreme performances in the sciences and technologies and all those different things, it also tends to be dominated by men. Part of that societal, part of it is it's just more experimentated. I think that nature... And this was one of the theories that nature just throws more male brains out there and plays those cards because we're disposable, whereas women are valuable. And again, if you look at how societies kind of treat women, and this is terrible, but in old cultures and societies, women are treated like property, probably because they are very valuable. Whereas guys are like, you know, half you guys can die and we're all good. It's kind of weird, right? Yeah, he jumped off a cliff. It's kind of weird, but you don't see women committing horrible crimes nearly at the rate that men do. It's actually so rare that when a woman kills her kids or does something horrible to her kids, everybody's like, oh my gosh, what just happened? Doug, are the 10 names up there right now? Oh, we've got 10 female cult leaders we've never heard of. Interesting. Thank you, Doug. And Hamilton. Yeah. No idea who that is. No, keep going. Who else? Clementine Barnabet. Don't know who that is. Keep going. Amy McPherson. I want to read about these. We'll put a link in the show notes for this. This is pretty interesting. Yeah, this is interesting stuff, but did they kill a bunch of people or were they just... They were just manipulative. Yeah. They just take their money. They just made everybody... Well, if you're a cult leader, you probably did something pretty... Yeah, you'd have to do something. Yeah, I don't think you get a cult leader. I don't think you get that unless you do evil. Unless you kill a bunch of people, kill a bunch of shit, get a bunch of... I don't necessarily know you wrap it cult unless there's some malevolent... Some bad intent there. Yeah. Pretty interesting stuff. All right, Doug. You'll put this in the show notes for everybody. This will be a good one for people to link in and read. We don't have time to read all that, but that looks interesting. I don't know. I love these kind of discussions because I like to figure out the whys, you know, certain things happen, whether it's societal and cultural or whether it's biological or both. I think the more we dive into it and the more we let ourselves talk about this stuff without getting silly about it, the more we understand each other. You know what I mean? Well, you can kind of tap into what we're hardwired to sort of, you know, what makes us, like, operate and then, like, how we make decisions accordingly, you know, like how we've done it over the years. And I think it's important, people... It's okay to say something maybe evolutionarily hardwired because it doesn't mean that's the way things are going to be. You don't have to express it. We totally do. Because we're hardwired to, you know, men are hardwired to just sleep with, you know, women, you know, as many women as they want. But it's not advantageous for families. It's not advantageous for societies. And of course, if it doesn't work with your partner, so you don't. So we're also hardwired to eat anything that's in front of us. But many of us have evolved past that so we can take care of our health and all these other things. Just understanding that doesn't mean that that's, you know, necessarily what's going to happen. So, bird time. Bring on the Coltie bird. Today's Quas being brought to you by Chimeric Coffee. It's the only coffee that is infused with all natural neutral picks for a cleaner, calmer, and more focused buzz without the crash. Put the Chimeric link at mindpumpmedia.com and input the discount code Mindpump a checkout for 10% off. It's the motherfucking Quas. The eagle has landed. Our first question is from Jess Hodder. Yeah. How do you handle being in a relationship with someone who is not as fitness or health oriented as you are? Do you try to encourage healthy behaviors or avoid it because you don't want to push anything on them? How do you keep your lifestyle in check with them with regards to social outings without coming off as pretentious or selfish? We got to break this up in a couple of hairs. This is a loaded question. We've talked about this a couple of times, but not to this level. Yeah, and it's been a while since we probably addressed it, too. And I think it's a great topic because being a trainer, I think it was one of the hardest things that I had to figure out to help clients that had a spouse or partner, significant other that did not work out, did not exercise, did not eat healthy. We call them crabs. What? I'm not sure where that came from. No, dude. They're crabs. They're holding you back. You have to tell the story of what a crab is. Is there a story behind that? I think you should tell me. Let's see. Have you guys ever watched that show? Little Mermaid? No. That's a great show. The first thing that comes to mind is Sebastian the crab right now. What he did to hold the Little Mermaid back. It's the crabbing fishing boat show, Deadliest Catch. Deadliest Snatch with crabs. So crabs are... There's always like... Somebody's making it to the surface. You know what? I don't even remember the story. I'll write the show notes. Here's a story as I know it. Oh, Doug knows it. If you put your lucky Doug St. John right here... Because I know, like, always pulling them down when they're trying to get out So they can all get out and be free of the net. But they're all kind of pulling each other back now. Yes, you put a bunch of crabs in a pot. If one is about ready to get out, the others will pull it back into the pot. Okay, thank you. Holy shit, that is a fucking metaphor. That's a great metaphor, Justin. I know I fucked it up, but it was good. Sorry. It was important. Bro, you just blew my mind right now. But I'm glad you shared that. Is that kind of similar to the butter in the mouse, the butter in the mouse one in the bowl? I don't know that one. That's why I didn't share it. You open it up and you're like, oh, shit, I haven't thought this one out yet. I'll forget it. I feel like Justin was podcasting really hard right there. I didn't... Oh my god, I was trying so hard. I was like... You know, like, though, Shay won us for stopping you because it was fucking gold, but I'm glad Doug... It didn't register for me. I'm like, wait a second, how is that person a crab? I don't get it because they're crabby. No, that was a money analogy. What a loaded question. It's funny, I had this conversation. A conversation? Well, you've been hanging out at my library a lot lately, dude. I wonder why my mouth did that. But I had this conversation earlier and it was a joke. Women, this is a joke, right? Women date men hoping that they're going to change. So they look at a guy. And the reason why I said this is I heard a girl say this. Or she's like, oh, you know, I was at the gym and I overheard a conversation. I was laughing so hard. He lives with his mom right now. But man, he's like really smart and I know in like 5 or 10 years he's going to be super successful. And I'm hearing her and it's almost like she's apologizing, but saying he's got lots of potential. Like an investment? And I was joking with Jessica about that. And I'm like... Women tend to like, when they'll date a guy, it's like they're looking at his potential for him to change. They want him to change whereas a man will date a woman and be like, I hope you never change. I hope you always look like this and you're always the same and that's it. So I mean, all joking aside, I think when you get into a relationship you need to understand that people including yourself change and you will change. There's no way you're going to be the same person 10 years from now that you're going to be, that you are right now. You too may have bonded over the fact that you like reading books and going on vacations, you have great conversation, but maybe 10 years from now you embark on a health and fitness journey and it becomes a big part of your life because you realize how important it is and you become very passionate about it. Well, maybe your spouse or your boyfriend or your girlfriend doesn't share that with you. They don't have that same realization for themselves. They're doing their own growth and you have to be okay with that. Because trying to force what you're finding and your growth on someone else will only cause you problems. It will cause resentment. Now, you may want to share with them what you're finding. You might want to share with them how good you feel, but share it from a place of love and a true sense of sharing. Not like I'm going to share with my spouse that I've lost 10 pounds hoping to do the same. The reason why I say that is the likelihood of you convincing your significant other to start working out through pressure is very low. If they do start working out and stuff because of pressure, what you're going to do is potentially cause damage to their self-esteem and they may resent you for that as well and it can cause problems. My advice is and I trust may have experience in this do your thing, love what you do, respect the person you're with because you love them and you're growing and hopefully they see what you're doing and they want to join in with you and that's one of the best ways I've ever found is like hey, I'm going to be going on a hike not like do you want to go hike on Saturday but I've already decided I'm going to go on a hike Saturday morning you want to come with me so we can spend some time together, stuff like that and if they say no, don't get worried about it because this the statistics on married couples where one person loses weight and gets in shape and the other person decides not to the statistics on that are actually kind of scary the divorce rate jumps dramatically I've seen it firsthand, I've seen where somebody loses 50 pounds and their husband won't lose weight or vice versa and I mean in my experience almost always there's a lot of factors that play into that for sure too because of that I mean, talk about the insecurities of the one who's not working out has the one that now has this newfound confidence, they're getting all kinds of attention that he's getting, there's so many things I'm doing it, why can't you I think there's several there's multiple people here that I would speak to different so one I want to right away because I know this is a female that's asking this question if you're married already and this is your challenged person, I don't know if you're just asking this in general or for yourself what goes out to somebody who is married to the man who is not does not have the same growth you know isn't as growth minded as you are or isn't into health and fitness like you are and you're already married so talking to that person I think the advice that Sal just gave is the best advice that you could give to somebody in your shoes now if I'm giving advice to a man who's in the exact same situation I think it's a little bit easier to get your your wife on board for example women I think most men that have been married for a long time or been in a relationship for a long time know that women like that one on one or quality time and you can use health and exercise as a great tool to create that for each other so maybe she's not maybe she's not huge into health and fitness and you are but she does desire more quality time with you and so going for walks together or taking like a yoga class even though you might not be like a yoga guy or finding things that allow you and her to do together which is also beneficial health wise which could be just fucking movement and stretching and hopefully that evolves to exercise and training but same principles that you don't push that like Sal said and then lastly and I think the most important people to talk to are the ones that aren't married yet that are trying to figure out is this man or woman perfect for me I remember when I first would like put together what I thought was the ideal woman for me and the list of like she's gotta be like this and she's gotta have this and it's gotta be like this everybody's done that list whether they've written it down or they put it mentally or thought about it there's like weird science where you have to make a doll and hope that it's gonna turn into a fucking and when I was younger the things that I thought were really important were less important to the things like this you know I find that having a partner that is equally health conscious and growth minded bleeds into this whole topic so if I may not have a partner who is as fanatical about fitness as I am but because if she's growth minded and she's into bettering herself then it's really easy to get her on board to do the stuff that I want to do that's related to health and fitness and if that is something that's really important to me then making sure that I'm dating somebody that has those similar values so they don't necessarily need to be like you know you're talking about three guys that are like all we fucking talk about is fitness so that could probably get really annoying for somebody who's not as excited about it as we are so how does that relationship work well she doesn't need to be like my girl has no desire to ever compete she doesn't like she's not like hardcore gotta look a certain way or be at a certain body fat percentage but what she is is she's extremely growth minded and she is always about bettering herself and part of bettering yourself is also taking care of your body and taking care of your health and so it's really easy to get her on board to doing things to the point where she holds me accountable on things that are related to growth in our relationship so they're just this last week and there was a night where I just wanted to veg out I didn't want to do anything but you know sit down and watch like some mindless TV and she's like hey we haven't read our book this week let's go read her book I'll never hold us back from growth nor will she so if one of us suggest us should suggest it the other one will never hold the other one back this is kind of how our relationship works and that's important to me the very next day after that you know she got she had a long day and she wanted to put her feet up and I didn't get a lot of activity that day and I wanted to go out and go for a walk before the night went down and that's also a great time for her and I to talk and spend time together so it was really easy to get her to do that and just like I am she's not the type to hold us back from doing something so finding a partner if you're not married I think it's extremely important if you think that health and fitness is a major priority for you and growth is a priority for you you have to find a partner that is growth minded in that way and it won't be that hard it'll be very easy and you'll grow together you know working on these things and getting better and better over the years but if you are dating somebody who is not growth minded you know and that's where you're gonna have the hardest time so you know evaluate that or if you're you know if you're a wife and you know your husband is being lazy or whatever all this stuff all you gotta do is come up and pat him on the belly oh my god it's gonna do wonders yeah I mean if you're this is really only a challenge is if you started dating someone and you both weren't into fitness and then all of a sudden you got into fitness right that's where I see the big challenge if you if you're looking to start dating someone I guess that's pretty easy you know what your your passions are right you probably want to find someone you can connect with you know on those passions I mean but you know moving forward another challenge that I've seen is where two people are passionate about fitness and health and then one of them stops that's something else I've seen where the couple is together for 10 years and you know you're talking to one of them the like yeah you know he was really into exercise and nutrition and then all of a sudden well you guys have great advice like I mean it's for sure but you know I think it just boils down to communication I think a lot of times like we're afraid and we tiptoe around like things that are very like obvious like you know I noticed like you're sitting down a lot like I like what's going on like you know I notice that like you don't want to do these activities with me you're drinking all like like really just like call them out but but not in a loving way you're not like like you're failing you're doing this like like what's going on like kind of like get get further into the conversation of why you know you they don't want to do these sorts of things I think to Sal's point that he just said right now there's a difference between being passionate or motivated to get in shape versus being growth minded and wanting to better yourself so and I think just there's some fit people right now on Instagram that are ripped and got in shape because they discipline themselves for 8 or 10 weeks and it was at this time in their life it was some a goal maybe for them but it wasn't necessarily like hey I'm trying to improve myself or grow be healthier be better it was I want to get ripped for Vegas in three months that is different than than two people that are are genuinely growth minded and want to be better and want to be healthier every day and get that way those people aren't going to have a hard time if somebody though if two couples met that and I see this a lot especially in the competing world where we're you know a lot of times they gravitate to each other because they know the discipline they're going through to get on stage and the sacrifice and you know she'll get me because you know it's like to way out food and carry your food around and make all this sacrifice and so we find this connection that we bond but it's really artificial it's not real it's like at that moment we're just connecting on one very small piece and we might both view what we're currently doing totally different I may be doing it for the reasons like I did it for which was business and did get attention for for what we're doing versus like oh this is my end all be all or I'm so I care so much about competing so understanding like a goal and fitness is one thing but understanding being growth is totally totally what you'll find when people are super super motivated strictly for just looking a certain way and you know that kind of stuff is what I've often found is when they get into a relationship and they get comfortable they totally throw fitness out the window no longer becomes a life and they fluctuate quite a bit and it can cause a lot of problems yeah but I mean if you're with someone and you're both very fitness minded and you started dating that way and then they stop like some's and they did it for the right reasons or whatever something's wrong that might be depressed they might be anxious you know and that may be the problem I mean I look at it like you know someone who stopped taking showers or stopped getting dressed in the morning like something else is going on let's talk about this and really making it about the cosmetic is is not a very effective strategy like one of the worst things you could do is tell your spouse you know you're not working out and I'm just not as attracted to you as honest as you may be even if you have it with good intentions I promise you more often than not they're going to take that the wrong way and it's going to be very hurtful and it's going to turn into it could turn into jealousy it can turn into possessiveness it can turn into a whole type of relationship where you hold these insecurities away from each other right so like one thing I know like that's been tough is like so even after having kids and stuff there's a disconnect and there's a disconnect with you know it becomes it becomes a time thing so there's like there's work and then there's kids and the focus is more around the kids and you know this is where the focus doesn't become you know on yourself anymore and so one thing like and I know and we can literally see each other's bodies all the time and like we kind of discuss it and it's like you know like the biggest thing to do is to ask like how you can help get them more time you know and like get them more time to spend on themselves or you just want a million points you know make every woman listening right now yeah that was very smart so that I mean that's the biggest thing that I found was like the key that's wise though that's very wise thing to say you know some hard podcasting some hard podcasting I like you guys you know and then I come in later with the real knowledge with the real knowledge oh my god that is very very very great advice because I could totally see that being very effective like someone came up to me and said hey look how can I get you more time so you could do the things you like to do for yourself rather than you need to go work out like wow that's way more effective spend more time with yourself well the strategy to that too in hopes that you do that that they choose to do that instead of going having popcorn and movies right so if they still do that then that's a whole other issue right so that's well you can't control people that's if not you can't control the bottom line exactly and you know you got to let them have that freedom to choose what they want it obviously of course always but you know at the again at the end of the day if it's anxiety and stress that's causing the person to stop working out and you give them some reprieve the very first thing they may choose is just to alleviate that stress and that might be taken half but over time they may start to choose yeah I like giving like subtle things to that you know and I know this isn't I believe that it takes a little bit of skill and art to do this and you practice at this is you take unflattering photos of them no you post them on social media so I've always I've always come from like the leadership the tactic leadership mentality right so if I'm trying to lead my partner into health and fitness I don't want to be pushy just like if I was a boss trying to get all my people to work in the same direction I'm not going to tell you what to do like a manager what I'm going to lead right so I'm going to show you what a healthy lifestyle looks like and I'm going to let my my attitude and that my productivity and those things reflect that so you're going to find me I'm going to be happier and I'm going to feel good and I'm going to be talking with energy and doing things that are going to make you go like man why are you in such a good mood today and then I'm going to help connect the dots for them I was like oh man I just and this literally just happened the other night was sharing with Katrina being back on tracking and on it I already feel the difference in my my energy already I feel so much better this week than I did the previous week I've got the same stress I got the same bullshit going on in my life but because my health and fitness kick is is kicked up a notch right now I feel good and I share that I share and I don't do it in a way that is like in your face like I feel so good because I'm exercising and you're not it's not like that it's like you know she sees me extra happy or excited like man I can't believe how much energy you have because you've been going all day long is like man I just when I'm eating clean and I'm fueling my body with what I need it's amazing how my body responds to me and talks to me mind blowing yeah and like when I if you share those little those moments when the opportunity is right enough of those moments start to get people curious like okay well what exactly are you doing and you know what could I do to to feel that way because it's contagious because I want to feel happy and I want to look like I have energy and I don't want to be stressed all the time and if you're showing that through your health and fitness journey then a lot of times that will bleed over into them and so those are subtle ways you can do that quick interruption by our sponsors you guys lots of people have been asking us how they can support the mind pump mafia family our first one is our chimera coffee that we love you guys go to chimera coffee dot com that's chimera with a 10% off don't forget mind pump at the check out we also have our big top beard company dot com for 33% off also mind pump at the check out check out also brain FM we talk so much about this for sleep and meditation it's brain dot FM for 20% off also mind pump at the check out you guys we also talk a lot about books on here all the time we're using that audible you guys can get a free trial 30 day trial plus one free audio book if you go to audio audible trial dot com forward slash mind pump and then last we get lots of people asking about Ben Greenfield CBD supplement so we hit him up to hook you guys up you go to get natured blend dot com forward slash mind pump for that discount alien oxner says a friend of mine was critiquing my squat and said I shouldn't be squatting asked a grass because of something called but wink he said it's bad for your back can you elaborate on this if this is a thing yes a but wink is a thing and it could be a bad thing now there is a lot always some debate there you know yeah yeah well first we should tell him but we can okay so I could finish my sentence I would get to that point so no crab yes it can be you yes it is a real thing but this is something that is heavily debated in the fitness community because there's a lot of different reasons it could be happening and there's a lot of people that could look like they have a slight but wink and it's totally fine and normal so that's the hard area now this is what I think this is probably one of the biggest advantages that our forum uses right or that our people that are in our forum use is you'll post a video of doing a squat on our forum and within five minutes you're going to have all these professionals critiquing you and giving you advice on what they see happening and so you know getting someone who's a real professional look at your mechanics and advising you versus just some and I don't know who told you if this is a buddy who's a trainer at some local gym which I don't know how credible he is or not but you may have a but wink and if it's excessive it could be bad for your low back so there is stuff that you should do leading into a deep squat so going and this is where why all these national certifications that we took through our 20s coming up as trainers said squat to 90 degrees it said squat to 90 degrees not because that's what's ideal for your joints and you know going through full range of motion which you hear us preach about all the time which is good for you and is better for you they know that majority of people can't squat below 90 without deviations like a but wink coming out so a but wink is as you're squatting your pelvis goes into what's called a posterior pelvic tail so it literally looks like if you look at someone squatting from the side yeah it looks like their tailbone starts to tuck a little bit at the bottom their pelvis is literally rotating they call posteriorly now here's a little rule of thumb that's very easy to remember and you can apply this to any exercise in any movement range of motion is not a problem ever unless you are unsupported unless you're relying on your joints end of range of motion for support in other words if I extend my arm out completely straight and I lift the weight at arms length like my palm is up and I'm lifting weight upon if I'm supporting my elbow with my bicep and my forearms a lot stuff it's okay that I'm at that full range of motion now if I relax my arm and lift and let my elbow joint support that in other words the joint the end of range of motion is my joint and my joint is supporting the weight now we have a problem this is the same thing with a butt wink we're taught when you squat that the lumbar spine the thoracic spine the cervical spine needs to be rigid and stuck always in that neutral position first of all a squat is a very natural movement if you go to countries where people sit in squats everyone has a butt wink almost everybody is going to sit in this butt wink position when they're sitting on their haunches sitting on their feet it's a totally natural movement there's nothing wrong with some movement in the lumbar spine the problem is when people butt wink and it's the result of an imbalance it's the result of poor recruitment patterns and they go into their end of range of motion butt wink so now what's supporting them is their spine not the muscles around the spine but their actual spine now there are anatomical differences between people that may make it impossible to squat without a butt wink literally your hip joints may be set up in a certain way to where once you go below a certain position to get more range of motion there's going to be a little bit of butt wink and there's nothing wrong with that again if it's under control and you're not at end of range of motion you're going to be totally fine in fact more people have hurt themselves and I'll make this claim all day long it's more dangerous this is what I'll say it's more dangerous to have a butt wink and a leg press than it is to have a butt wink and a squat you are more likely in a leg press if you do go into butt wink where your hips kind of rotate out to be totally relaxed in that position in the lumbar spine because you're not really using it to begin with it's all legs right you're not supporting any weight on your shoulders and people tend to let the spine go into end of range of motion at the bottom of a leg press whereas when you're squatting you have more of a tendency you're forced to control it and your core is having to work no matter what and I've seen a lot of back injuries a lot of them from light leg presses where people go all the way down they get the butt wink the spine is how would you tell somebody to assess that if they have a butt wink besides like knowing that they're losing muscle tension I had a butt wink so not only can I speak from this mechanically but I can tell you how you know and here's the thing I don't like the analogy you gave with the bicep because that's a single hinge joint comparing that to a compound movement like a squat there's a lot more that's going on than just keeping support through one I know but there's a lot more that can be going on here so you'll know because your lower back will be on fire because the excessive movement of the extension and flexion you'll be working those extender muscles at the very bottom and what I remember I used to do a set of squats and by the second set I was laying on the ground because my low back was on fire just on fire because it's getting this constant extension flexion and that's that excessive winking back and forth now like Sal said it is true if everybody sat complete ass to grass everybody's going to have a natural tuck underneath that's actually where the pelvis wants to go now some people will be excessive now you're normally excessive when you already have an anterior pelvic tilt going into that so if you already have that lower lordosis going on and then you go into a deep squat and you haven't prepared you haven't done the work that you should do to get good control and mobility into that range of motion you could see an excessive butt wink I'll tell you what your body will let you know right away like you'll like I said you'll be like me you'll feel it on fire so would you attribute like when you're going through your mobilizing your hips and reconnecting more as far as like gaining strength in your hips to contribute to more support going into your squat absolutely so this being a guy who had it and is completely eliminated it so I have low back if those have been watching my Instagram story or Instagram for the last year two plus you've watched a guy who could only get to about 90 degrees when he squats to I can complete ass to grass with 300 pounds on my back no belt completely comfortable and nothing bothering my low back but that took a ton of work to get there I didn't just all of a sudden go ass to grass I had to slowly work on all these different factors because and that's why I said I didn't like the elbow thing because I had to work on ankle mobility that would that would contribute to it also I had to work on my hip mobility there's my thoracic so you also want to round the top of your spine when you get that deep so there's a lot of other factors that come into play that could be contributing to something like that and the last thing you want is your thoracic to roll forward so your upper body to roll forward while you're also winking underneath and then you then you could be in trouble so it's interesting for me to think about because you know even like bench pressing or something like that where you know where there's like a disconnect where your body has this sort of tendency to either let the weight drop a little faster and you lose like you lose the control in certain areas because you know you kind of have to hustle through that portion of the rep I don't know obviously I don't know if that's the case with everybody with this but wink because of you know the way that you know you're predisposed to having like the structure of your bones and everything you're predisposed to certain things but you know as far as like a muscle tension is concerned like I wonder if people really did put in the work with connecting to their hips better if that would be a huge well a lot of people too will try and do the opposite so they'll know that they have a butt wink and so they'll stick out the other way and so what they do is when they go down they really really tense up their erector spinae to try and their hip flexors to keep their butt out and then they get back problems from that what I tell those people is rather than trying to stick your butt out so hard brace the hell out of your core and stay tight in your hips and you'll probably have you know you'll do a little bit better but it's really important for people to understand that there is no perfect absolute perfect looking squat that looks the same for everybody no your bones are different length there's different your joints maybe look you know look different there's different muscle attachments so really it's the perfect squat for you is where you can squat with good control good stability full range of motion nothing's in the way you're not getting over stress in any of your joints and that's the bottom line and that's true for any movement I can't tell you how many times I've been told don't do this exercise don't do that movement it's bad for this it's bad for that and then I learn how to do it properly with good control and I actually get more mobility you know better health in my joints than what I used to do what I follow the advice of it has to look a certain way and be absolutely perfect so a lot of times by the way people would say butt wink was due to hamstring tightness which is false well that's bullshit that's a bunch of bullshit okay so this is why in prime okay we have a compass test right and one of the tests you have to take a stick and you have to hold it there yourself and you have to keep it in three points the crown of your head your back of your blades and then your tailbone and you got to squat as deep as you can maintaining those that connection if you can squat ass to grass that's why we created prime so this would be a perfect test for someone like this who's trying to figure out are you doing a safe squat if you can maintain those three points and drop your ass all the way down ass to grass you're doing good now if you lose those three points because if you have an excessive butt wink you'll lose one of those points going all the way down there it's not that you don't you should never go ass to grass it means that you haven't done the work you need to do to get to your body to the point to where you can do that and I think that's the reason why I really wanted to talk about this question was because we do promote full range of motion we're all advocates of that we all talk about it all the time but I also don't I do not recommend people going from they've been squatting for they've been squatting down to 90 degrees all of a sudden because we say ass to grass the next time they go work out actually we should just define full range of motion full range of motion means your fullest range of motion that you can do with good control and stability and strength so that may mean your full range of motion is 90 degrees it also may mean your full range of motion may be ass to grass full range of motion is not the same for everybody always train in your fullest range of motion it means literally what you can do with good control good stability and good strength if you move outside of that you are no longer in your full range of motion this is where isometrics I mean so Dr. Andrew Spina talks about our body's capacity for 10 to 15% even more range of motion than you know we currently have like our capacity is there if we learn how to train ourselves to connect to that process well and I think that's the message too what I also don't want to send because I know Sal saying that to your full range just because you can only get down to 90 don't just fucking settle for that and stay there either that's the old trainer the way I used to taught teach back in the days was oh my client only has good control to 90 degrees so we squat just down to 90 degrees and that's all I do with her for the next two years and I didn't get any real good what I should have been doing was addressing her mobility to get her to the point where or him to the point where they can go deeper than 90 and work on their mobility because at that current time she could only get down to 90 degrees which is if you're going to train squats you should train in that safe range of motion but that should also be a flag to you that hey I mean do you want to be in a position to where you can only squat down to 90 degrees and be comfortable I said no you should be able to sit down just like we did when we were toddlers you should want to do that and if you can't do that safely now you put in the work this is what prime is all about this is why we created this fucking program and it has a test to actually figure this piece out right here so if you don't make sure you do that and or the form the form is amazing for this for you can put up your put up any videos of your exercises and then the three of us are on there every day critiquing form and if not us there's all kinds of other professionals doing the same thing so we're going to look at the price on how to address stuff Cisco 4158 when is it appropriate to start training kids great question training kids well first off kids play yeah well that's how they exercise they play and they do that as soon as they can move exactly and I think that's why I wanted to talk about this question too because you know it's one thing to call it sort of structured play so versus just letting kids play and sit down and play video games and I think that you know physical education has changed quite a bit and we got away from a lot of the core sort of movement patterns that kids should be expressing like hanging and doing monkey bars and crawling patterns and squatting patterns and climbing and like these are all like really important things for kids to develop and I feel like that if anything like that's why you know there's this emphasis with a lot of the structures that you see like with monkey bars and like you know playgrounds like they the ones where it sort of challenges them a little bit more to figure out how to move their body how to like get strength when they need it and just climbing is so good for kids to kind of express and you know gymnastics obviously teaches a little bit further about how to develop a lot of these like strengths but I feel like it's crucial even now I'm like even more looking into that process with kids. Yeah I think I mean they're asking training so I'm assuming they may be asking about like weights like when is it okay to have kids lift weights. Yeah. If a kid can control a weight then there's nothing wrong with that. There's a myth that lifting weights will stunt your growth. Yeah it'll damage the growth plates and stunt your growth. The amount of weight that a child needs to lift to damage their growth plates is more than they'll ever be able to lift at that age so don't worry about that at all. And you would be a moron if you're doing less than 5 repetitions with a kid that's like 8 years old. There's no reason for you to be doing that. No and I've trained a lot of children and the biggest thing that you train with kids is control. Their proprioception is fucking all over the place. Yeah you give a 10 year old a dumbbell you tell them to lift it him or her above their head and it could be very light for them but you can see that it's wobbling they want to drop it and so that's that ends up what we end up training but if a child is into it and enjoys it and they want to be trained like structured trained go for it then that means they're old enough. They're asking for it. Then there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. You got to train them seriously. You're not looking to you know it's not intensity based at all so I'm not there to hammer the shit out of some kid with his or her training. I'm there to again give them more control over their bodies. You want to teach them the skill of each one of these movements and the meaning and the purpose behind it and you know why you need to develop it's practice. Yeah it's practice. Maps anywhere dude. Tension movements and body weight man. I mean I would put if I was training 100% like that's I would train getting them to go through a program like that that is all body weight tension band work. You're not going to do any sort of damage it's super safe because you're not using any weights. The only resistance you're really using is bands and your body weight teaches them control proprioception. We got all types of great plyometric work in there if they progress up to that. Like that to me is ideal. I tell you what though this is like I'm glad you picked this question because this was just on my mind. Last weekend I'm at Katrina's mom's house and we have the nieces and nephews over and one of them is my nephew who is 10 years old plays baseball and he's kind of put on weight you know in the last like three years or so and it's just you know it's they're both his parents don't really pay attention to stuff they let him eat whatever and he eats a lot of garbage and plays a lot of video games but he also plays sports but and he's started to put on probably I would say 15 pounds or so yeah right overweight right but because he still can play sports they kind of like they don't they don't really address it right oh he's just and with you know what a lot of people think when they see their kid they justify exactly they're going through a growth spurt right but I can see it right away that it's not a growth spurt it's he's over consuming and he's not moving enough and what I and I was playing with him and then our the little six year old and we were sitting down in a squatted position and I was showing them to how to be all the way as to grass and then do like a little pistol squat back and forth and the girl who was six years old was playing around doing it with me and the and the 10 year old boy who's a little bit over what could not do it not only could not do it but when he sat down as to grass his heels were off the ground about two inches and he had to rock all his weight just to be sitting all the way down in that full depth squat he was rolling so he obviously he didn't understand why he couldn't do it he kept falling over I could see it mechanically right away but it blew my mind to see a kid who actually plays a little bit of sports that's 10 years old could already be losing that that actually range of motion because of sitting so much and how little kids are doing those and so what Justin said to me like was just hit home is you know crawling patterns and monkey bars and the good old shit that we used to do people don't realize how fucking important that was for us maintaining good posture good control good propriocepts body awareness yes you just learn about your body the odds that your kid today born today is going to have a major chronic disease to in the future is high very high it's actually very high the odds are that they will and I'm a huge advocate because you didn't necessarily need to do this about 50 years ago 50 years ago you didn't have to have structured activity right because that's what kids did all we wanted to do is go outside and play today I think it's necessary the fact that public schools are taking PA out and not having structured exercise and not paying attention to it like they are with math math and science is horrible considering the modern times that we live in because modern times now kids would rather not go outside they'd rather be inside it's way more fun being inside today than it is to go outside so you have to be in the structure now it just is bottom line I have kids you almost have to earn your time right to be able to sit down and because you're not going to take away you know like these video games and being on the computer being on the phone like that's just I mean that's not going to that's not going to solve the issue it's about how do we now adapt to this new environment and how do we you know set them up for success with it I think how do you guys how do you guys do that as parents I'm curious about it because I think being a guy who's not a parent I think oh if I had kids that were like it I watch my little brother they earn time with it is that how you do it like I would probably make them do things that were active in order to be able to sit down and sit in front of the computer it's a very small window they get but I mean they get it most effective thing I've done period hands down is do something with them because I find it super not effective to God that's gotta be so fucking hard though for a lot of parents right we already have parents that are our age and we have a wrestle time play time that are they're struggling to get themselves in shape to stay active then you have kids that are dealing with this this technology and video gaming world and VR now they're a reflection of their parents right and that's a hard thing for people to swallow because they see their kids with the trouble like well I tell them to do this or I tell them it's like they're they are a reflection on the scary part is if you're a parent right now and you know you're guilty already of the bad eating habits and lack of exercise you don't realize I guess you know think about it this way if you struggle with it right now and you don't aren't motivated to do a lot of the exercises or eat better and it's already challenging for you to stay healthy or to keep keep the weight off or whatever maybe imagine what you're setting your child up for because he has he or she has way more obstacles than you had as a child you did so many things that you probably don't even realize as a child that were so beneficial to your overall structure your skeletal structure your muscular scale structure and then your nutritional habits that this kid that's growing up now in this generation those are all against him and it's all during these formidable years where the brain is developing and the body start you know it's developing in ways that some of them are reversible but some some of them aren't so much and especially the brain but I would like to see schools treat activity the same way they treat math and science like structured where they place money and time into it where children or they have like there you wouldn't have a science teacher who doesn't know science that well in schools it just would never happen but you've got PE teachers that don't know shit about mobility flexibility because we just don't consider it important but I'm telling you right now it's as important if not more important because the odds that your kid is going to have chronic disease in the future quite high diabetes and obesity related diseases are the majority children are getting it now but as adult as obese children or as unhealthy children grow up the odds become the majority I think they need to spend time and money like have these kids like like it's one of the periods where it's exercise it's flexibility it's mobility where and the problem is we've got this generation of parents that are just pussies because they're afraid that their kid is not going to be good at sports or not be good at activity well it's the same thing with academics some fucking kids don't do math very well but what do we do we spend time on helping them work on the things that they need to work on and the same thing needs to be done with fitness today especially today because it just doesn't happen naturally I feel like you just need to we just need to evolve the damn subjects they have now like instead of like science being all about fucking rocks and the fucking elements and shit like that and the periodic table maybe actually teaching them a little bit about macronutrients and how they affect the body and spending more of the time about that and maybe an English class instead of like reading about these old Shakespeare things maybe we're spending a little bit more time teaching them how to actually communicate English communicate English back and forth to each other I mean now has defended me well I just feel like the subjects are there we just tend to what we've been teaching for so many fucking years is so ridiculous it's like there's so many more practical things that these kids need to know now how about learning how to balance a checkbook or how a car loan works or you know how to bank like shit like this is like when you get out of school we're like what the fuck right and that's my credit card's good that's math right but maybe you spend more time in math talking about those real practical things which you know I remember little bits of that in there but not enough not as much emphasis should have been or not not enough was placed on that with all the amount of time that you spend as an adult having to understand all those things. Alright kids chapter 4 of Arnold Schwarzenegger's Encyclopedia Bodybuilder please bring out your packets we're going to discuss biceps. Indeed biceps. Oh Doug. Our next question is from Kingree18 how important is sleep? This guy is asking the question because he averages 4 hours on work nights and 6 hours on weekends. Can you argue that the quality is more important than the actual time? Well first off how important is sleep it's one of the essential things that you need for survival it's up there with food, water and shelter. That's where all the magic happens. I mean so lack of sleep is so detrimental to your health that you can literally die if you can't sleep enough this is a fact if you stayed up enough and they kept you up and they did some pretty horrible experiments in the communist Soviet Union on this particular subject and people died went crazy and actually died as a result of lack of sleep it's extremely important to get adequate sleep now this doesn't mean and I want to be clear as well individual sleep requirements can vary they can vary quite a bit and the average studies show that the average person needs around 8 hours of sleep but if you're more stressed out or more fatigued or maybe you're fighting an illness you probably need more if everything is on point and you feel great you may be okay with a little less some people naturally need a little less sleep than other people so these are just rough numbers but they just actually completed a study in fact let me see if I can if I can find it pretty wild studies showed that sleep deprivation actually causes the brain to start what they put in quotations eating itself so there are things called in the brain called astrocytes that clean out worn out cells and debris and they found that they were far more active when animals were deprived of sleep now this isn't necessarily a bad thing it sounds to me and this is all hypothetical or erratic but it sounds to me like it's a pruning process of the brain the same way the body does it to your liver or your organs when you fast however if you stay too long in the hat it becomes detrimental it's like damaging your body with exercise so I think a little sleep deprivation here and there might be a good thing but overall sleep is so important it would be like skipping drinking water or not eating for long periods of time it's very very bad one more thing I want to add to this is if you want to optimize your sleep the science is now becoming pretty conclusive that you're better off following the sun so it's better to get 8 hours of sleep going to bed early and waking up early than it is going to bed late you have that circadian rhythm built in so you kind of go to bed after the sun sets and then wake up when the sun rises versus you know even if you still get 8 hours but you sleep during the day you work a night shift type of deal it's so interesting because my wife worked the night shift the first two years we were married and her skin just the way she looks so unhealthy and felt so unhealthy meanwhile keeping the same nutritional habits and exercise everything consistent but just looked like a zombie I mean again it all goes back to evolution humans evolved most part without electricity we're super vulnerable at night so humans are terrible with our sight in the evening and sight is our most dominant sense so we've got two eyes that observe very well at night time we can't see shit but animals can see very very well so we didn't go outside at night that much because we would probably get killed by nocturnal animals like lions and all that kind of shit so it was very very likely that when the sun rose we went out and when the sun set everybody went in for shelter and fell asleep and that was just how our bodies worked it's why we get jet lag and why jet lag is so I mean every time we travel even if it's like three hours I don't feel like myself for at least a couple days this is a great example of how I use or I recommend like some of the biohacking tools that we see or come across or we've tried so this is a person who here's a blue blocker situation there's three biohacks that I would recommend to this person one the blue blockers two the float tank three brain FM no brainers and this is where I feel like where mine pump is really different about stuff and we're very careful about how we talk about things and push things like I don't think that blue blocker glasses are going to change it for a majority of people sleep and you have no problem with that then I don't think it's this game changer for someone but if you're somebody who lacks sleep has a hard time for your brain settling down brain FM and like blue blocker glasses game changer you want to talk about float tank did you know that talk about studies study came out to show that one hour of float tank is equivalent to four hours of REM so REM sleep is when we get the is the most recuperative time for now do you know what parameters are using to compare the two I know that it's going to be there must be a parameter in terms of this particular thing because it can't be equivalent across the board of course because everybody is different but even if it's off by 50% or 80% the fact that you could lay in a float tank and get some of the benefits that you get from REM because REM typically takes about two hours for the average person to get into that that you could jump right into that right away which is also the benefits that brain FM gives so brain FM does the same thing you dive in and do a deeper more recuperative sleep at a faster rate by using tools like this this is some and I'm somebody who can lack in sleep and I'm somebody who sometimes gets it and like Sal was saying like I think it is advantageous for us to have that stress every once in a while but if I feel like I'm been neglecting sleep or if like this person if I've had weeks on week where I'm only getting four hours sure your body may be adapted to that and you're okay with it but if I recognize that I'm only getting that I might be using some of these tools to take advantage like that person I think is going to benefit from brain FM more than the average person I think that person is going to benefit from the float tank more than any person if there was anybody that I would throw the blue blockers on at night time as soon as the as soon as the lights go or as soon as the sun goes down I throw those shades on you're that person and here's something that's really easy routine like part of the reason why blue blockers and stuff help my opinion is it's a routine like I'm getting myself prepared for bed so I have clients that I'll tell them hey an hour before bed turn off all electronics and light candles in your house you don't have to go to bed but just do that and just doing like the routine of it and getting ready for bed rather than your go go go go go and then boom I'm going to try and go to sleep now like that's a hard transition man so step towards you know the sleep part it's all go go go jump in bed one of the reasons why some it's hard for people to go to bed go to sleep after an intense session of exercise you ever do that you guys ever do that where you work out really really hard and then try to go right to bed you just you just can't so make a little sleep routine that can help quite a bit but yeah you need to prioritize your sleep and figure out a way if you're sleeping four hours a night on work nights try and figure something out either try and take a nap in the midday or figure out how you can get more sleep because you are yeah you are increasing your risk of all chronic diseases everything from heart disease to cancer yeah I feel for you that schedule is terrible that's bad and I'll tell you something right now 99% of stress that new parents get when they have a baby is lack of sleep that will make you want to kill each other we did you know for this person too I don't know how long they've been a listener for go back to our Sean Stevenson interview where he author of sleep smarter he goes into more of the hormones yeah he dropped some really good knowledge in that episode it was way back when but so if you just search the mind pump log for Sean Stevenson's interview you'll see that one that was really good but I tell you what so brain FM man has been a game changer for me I'm somebody who also could struggle with the sleep thing everything from what I was saying to meditating in the middle of the day to getting quicker into your REM sleep at night time in a deeper sleep that episode that we interviewed those guys they get into that into more detail so those are two really good episodes in regards to the importance of sleep and the strategies around that but those have been game changers for me excellent I believe we cover sleep as one of our topics in our 30 days of coaching we talk about wellness we talk about food intake protein carbohydrates fats we talk about resistance training definitely recovery it's free it's free information it's packed full of information the way you get is you go to mindpumpmedia.com and you enroll also if you want more help with your exercise technique more help with your wellness journey and you're a visual person you want to watch us demonstrate and teach exercises and you want to watch some of the brightest professionals in fitness and I'm not talking about us I'm talking about some of the people that we've actually had on our YouTube channel demonstrating things go to mind pump TV on YouTube it's again full of incredible information that we don't cover in our podcast lastly if you want to ask us a question that we answer on these episodes the place to do it is Instagram our page is mind pump media we also have personal pages mine is mind pump Sal Adam is mind pump Adam and Justin is mind pump Justin you can quickly improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Superbundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout new prints and over 200 videos the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this 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