 Good morning and welcome to another episode of the non-profit show. We're really excited to be working with our friend Meredith. Okay, Meredith, you need to help me pronounce your last name. It's Tarian. Tarian, like riparian. I can remember that. All right, Tarian. Meredith comes to us from Fundraising Academy. She's one of the trainers there. And Merrick also comes to us from Tampa. We were chatting in the main room where sometimes some of the most important things occur. And that has a lot of experience with military non-profits or non-profits that work with the military. And so we're going to get you back on my friend to talk about this, because it's a riveting, riveting topic. Meredith, how new are you with Fundraising Academy? So I've been with them for almost six months now. I started in June of this year, and I have really loved every second of it. It has been, they're just such an incredible team, and the work that they do is, I think, just so transformational. So it's been great. Yeah, it is transformational. And I often say in community, if I hadn't been trained by them, I've been a fundraiser all my life as a community member, not a paid fundraiser. I would have raised millions more dollars from my community. And so it's one of those things that I just, it's so simple, it's so logical, and it is really a good way to do business no matter what you're doing, I think. And so check out Fundraising Academy's cause selling program. It's really fascinating, it really, really is. Well, you know, Meredith, we have a lot of folks to thank before we get started. They include Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, Fundraising Academy at New York University, Staffing Boutique, non-profit nerd, and non-profit tech talk. These are the folks that join us. And what's really interesting, Meredith, I don't even know if you know, but our sponsors don't put any pressure on us in terms of content. And so we have, we book who we want, and we bring people in of all walks of life to talk about all different things. And so we've created a lot of trust with our sponsors. And I think that's one of the things that Fundraising Academy talks about and cause selling is those relationships and trust. And so we want to make sure that we really do thank our sponsors. Again, you can reach us or connect with us in many ways through our streaming broadcast platforms, our podcasts. And now, as I like to call it, our sexy media app. So join us. Okay, you ready, Meredith, for the first question? I am ready. Let's go ahead. Let's get started. Okay, this is a cool one because every once in a while it happens. It happened last week. A committee fully sent some more than one person from Nashville, Tennessee. Can you give us some ideas on how to recruit some younger board members? We keep getting the same age group on the board. And it is not reflecting our client base, nor our community of service. This is a really interesting question. And first of all, I just want to kind of acknowledge and applaud the organization for recognizing this about their board or about their committee, right? So being able to just acknowledge that maybe they need to expand their diversity to be a little more inclusive about who is representing them or who is on their leadership team. That's a really big first step. Now, in terms of how to recruit younger board members, I think there's a couple of things we need to think about here. One, it requires a thoughtful strategy. So you want to consider who your benefactors are of your organization. Are you working with animals? Are you working with children and youth? Maybe health and medicine. Maybe it's higher education. And then from there, I think in terms of recruiting younger folks and bringing folks onto your board that are in that younger demographic, there's a couple things that I would do, right? So consider reaching out to local universities, community organizations, maybe online platforms where young professionals network. That's a great place to start. When you find those folks, when you're in those networking groups, emphasize the benefits of board involvement. So things like skill development, networking, making meaningful impacts, help these folks to understand what is the real value and benefit to joining a board. From there, you can highlight specific roles that align with their skills and their interests. So if you find somebody who may be in a networking group who's a financial professional, maybe they can join your board and serve in your auditing or finance committee. Maybe they can serve in the budgeting committee. If you find folks who are really good in marketing or branding, I mean, help them to understand that they can lend their skills and talents to your organization and really take on a leadership role. Hosting informational events and webinars can also be a good way to interact with folks, to bring folks into the tent, so to speak on your organization. And then, of course, don't underestimate the power of social media. So use social media to showcase your organization's work and to engage with potential candidates for the organization. You know, I love what you said because in the past, we were never vocal about going out and saying, we have an opening, we want board members. You know, it was kind of like go back to the board and say, okay, who do you know? And then our boards would just attract or bring in the same people because, you know, they bring in people from their cohort versus saying, look, we need, you know, we need somebody that speaks different languages or different age groups or demographics that's geographically not living and working in the exact same area. That might be from another part of the state or the region or the community. Let me ask you this question as a follow-up. You seeing use of board member, if you will, applications so that you can feel more confident about opening up the doors and getting like an application, kind of like a, almost if you will, I get to know you on paper, as you would say, you know, like so that, so that perspective board members could have an opportunity to communicate what their skill sets are and what they bring to the table as you mentioned earlier. Yeah, so I think that it's certainly a best practice. I would also suggest to anybody who's looking into board recruitment or, you know, trying to expand their board, you definitely want to have a governance committee that has a formal process in place for identifying and vetting potential board members. And I think that starting with an application like you just described is a great place to start. I mean, really what you're looking for is, you know, interviewing folks, so to speak, for your board. So you want to make sure it's a good fit not only for your organization, but also for them in what their philanthropic interests are and what their skill sets are. Yeah, I think it's really smart. And I think that if you look about how the behavior of a younger demographic in a board cohort can look like, you know, a younger next change are used to filling out forms online applications. You know, this is not going to be a threat to them. It's going to be a logical extension of how they already are working. And I think it also speaks to the best practices adoption to, you know, nonprofit. If you can say, yeah, well, we have a process for this, you know, I don't know what you think, but I think it elevates the group. Yeah, it absolutely does. Again, it's like a best practice. And, you know, I will say this, this is a personal opinion of mine. And I can just tell you from experience in having worked with, you know, dozens of organizations as a consultant in the capital campaigns, but also as an internal staff member, a board can make or break an organization. So, you know, being really methodical and process oriented about how you recruit your board members, how you train them and how you engage them is really, really, it's a good process to go through and to be really strategic and methodical about. You know, we have a really interesting question that just came in as we've been chatting. And I want to go ahead and break in and ask you to get your comments. Someone writes in, bringing younger members for us is good, but we're really looking for middle age minorities. Two boards, I am on, both need diversity. Isn't it interesting? Yeah. And, you know, I think that this is something, Julia, we've seen in the past, like just the environment and the culture we're in, just in the past couple of years here, there's really been an emphasis now on diversity and inclusion, right? And we're seeing that in the nonprofit industry as well. I mean, and this is a good thing. We have so many nonprofits that are recognizing now that, you know, so many of their boards, you just tend to be filled with older white men, right? So they're saying, you know, we need women and we need minorities and we need a younger demographic. So, so again, that governance committee and being really strategic about how you identify board members, how you recruit them, how you train them, how you vet them. That's going to be your first step probably in, you know, getting after this diversity and inclusion issue. I love it. Well, let's change gears a little bit to our next question. And Meredith, once in a while, questions will come in and I take off their name because I don't want to cause any problems. And this is an incredible public format. And sometimes I'll even take off the community name because it could be easy to figure out who's asking the question. This person wrote in, and they're from Reno, so we kept that in. The question is fascinating. I recently moved to a new profit. I have a job where I have a donor who I previously worked with at my old job. They have asked me why I left and I am conflicted on how to answer. Honestly, the old nonprofit was not well run. I don't want to tell the donor that. Fascinating question. It really is. And I love this one because it's more, you know, personal and nuanced than just, you know, the logistics of fundraising, right? So it's one of those, you know, topics here that requires balancing transparency with professionalism. So here would be my suggestion on this one. I think that you can acknowledge the question without going into too much detail about any negative aspects of your previous position. So in other words, emphasize the positive aspects of your move. So it could be things like that you were seeking new challenges, personal growth. Maybe it's a better alignment with the mission of your current nonprofit to your philanthropic priorities. Frame it as an opportunity that you took advantage of to make a more significant impact and contribute to a cause that you're passionate about. So again, I mean, I think what we want to do is fundraising professionals is help our donors recognize that, you know, this isn't just a job for us. It's not like a sales quota that we're trying to meet. You know, we're, fundraisers, we're really passionate about the organizations that we work with. So we do this because we support the mission. So I think that if you take this approach, you maintain a positive tone while still respecting the confidentiality and professionalism of your past employment. That's probably the best way to do it. Now, if your donor happens to specifically ask about the, you know, practices or things that went on internally at the last organization, I think it's okay to be fair and honest about it, but to not really go into too much detail. And certainly, you don't want to have any perception by your donor that you're throwing that organization under the bus. Exactly. You know, I love what you say. I don't know if I've ever heard anyone articulate it that way. You do have a for this type of work. People that are in this work, whether programming, fund development, seat management, board work, and as volunteer, there is something deeper and there is a calling. And I think that's a great way to frame this because it makes it more personalized. And I agree, name with help. You can really navigate this with grace and an ability to create confidence and strengthen your relationship, but without speaking ill of the previous group. Yeah, I agree. It's a dicey, but a good cross. It really is. Okay, well, let's go on to our next question, which comes from Des Moines, Iowa. And it's from a director of development. Have you heard of making three levels of fundraising goals? The idea is a low, medium, and high amount. I'm not sure if this is a good idea. While we are in our final stages of setting goals, I thought I would ask. Okay, so this is one of my favorite questions so far. Yes, it is because I think that I first of all, I've seen this happen a lot. And here's my take on this. So I think it's important to remember the difference between goals and benchmarks. So setting an overarching goal with benchmarks under it can provide a clear and focused target for your team. So goals and benchmarks are related concepts, but they serve really different purposes in the planning and the measurement process. So benchmarks serve as milestones, and they allow you to track your progress and make adjustments against your goal. So in other words, think about your goal as a broad overarching objective that an individual fundraiser or an organization, you know, aims to achieve. So your goals are typically more qualitative. They're expressed oftentimes in terms of what you want to achieve in the long run. So an example of that would be, you know, our goal may be to raise $5 million to build a building, or maybe your goal is to fully fund your operating expenses through your annual fund. So that would be your goal. Your benchmarks I think is what you're thinking of or what your team might be thinking of in terms of that low, medium, and high range. I would consider those benchmarks. So a benchmark on the other hand is a specific measurable standard or maybe point of reference used to assess your progress. So they provide a way for you to measure your success and they can help in tracking the incremental achievements against your goal. But again, if you have a goal that's so flexible that there's a low, medium, and high point, I think really what that does there is it, again, it's too flexible. And then what happens is there's no risk of you not meeting your goal, right? Because you can just take one of the lower goals if you're not coming close to your higher goal. So what I would do, I would consider a goal as the broader qualitative aspiration while the benchmark is going to be the specific measurable point that tracks progress. You know, I would suggest having one realistic and achievable goal. And then maybe you use those benchmarks for specific segments within. So you might have a smaller goal or benchmark for your annual fund. You might have a specific goal or benchmark for your major gift category. You might have a specific goal or benchmark for your grants or your events category. That would be a way for you to segment your goals here. But while at the same time, you're being really strategic about meeting that overarching broader goal. So when I hear you say what I think about that, pardon me, you're working with the concept of benchmarking. You are marching along the time spectrum with that goal in mind versus at the end of the year, it's a kiss or cry moment, right? You met your goal or you didn't. And I think that this concept with you, you know, structuring it this way with a benchmark, it keeps us on track as opposed to at the end of the year, like, okay, you know, it's December. This is reality. We hit it or we didn't, right? Versus, you know, kind of keeping the goals in front of top of mind, if you will, and navigating that. I think it's a much healthier way to do it the way you're saying. Yeah. And I think, you know, to your point, I've seen this in board meetings before, I've even been in that seat before where you go to the end of the year, your board meeting is, you know, your year end review. And you say, you know, unfortunately, we fell short of our goal. And you know what, that happens. It's not necessarily something that you need to be ashamed of or, you know, worried about, like it does happen. Sometimes we fall short on our annual goals. But I think the bigger question is, okay, we understand, but why? What went wrong? If you have those benchmarks and you can say, you know, we anticipated, I don't know, maybe 500,000 out of our special events category, well, because of COVID or because of, you know, inflation or whatever it may be, we fell short on our special events goal or benchmark. And so, you know, we only came in at 250K. That might help you to think of it again. I wouldn't adjust that. I think what I'm trying to say is I would be really cautious about making your overall fundraising goal ambiguous. It should be defined. It should be realistic. It should be based on data and historical values. And then you should have those benchmarks under it where you can track your progress. Right. I think to your point, and the message here is tracking your progress, not waiting until the last moment reporting out. Because when you're reporting out, there's no way for you to really make an adjustment generally because that year is ending or that period of time, whatever, if you're running a calendar fiscal year, it's over. And you got to, you know, you got to move forward versus understanding kind of where you are. Well, this next question, I feel like this is also not only is this ask and answer, this is almost like the therapy session today. It's very interesting. It's very interesting. Okay. Name withheld from Tulsa, Oklahoma. I recently saw on social media a person on our C-suite posting a looking for a new job. And I'm a bit confused about it. I thought they were happy on our team. And I am not sure if I should approach them about it or just love. I am not their supervisor, but a team and I work closely with them at our nonprofit. But I have no idea what you're going to say. And I am kind of conflicted about this. I don't know what I would do. So let's hear what your thoughts on this Meredith. So first and foremost, I think that in this day and age with social media, we probably have all kind of come across a point like this before, right? A couple of things. I think first and foremost, navigating a situation like this requires sensitivity. So it's natural to be curious. I think it's also essential to approach the matter with care and again to be to be respectful of this person's privacy. So before jumping to conclusions, though, maybe just consider the context of the social media posts. So, you know, some people tend to share content like this on social media, especially LinkedIn, for various reasons unrelated to job satisfaction, right? So or dissatisfaction as it may be. So in other words, you know, networking, exploring opportunities without any intention, without any intention to leave. I mean, that could be the case. Maybe this individual posted this and is looking for, you know, networking opportunities that actually aids them in their current role. I think the other thing to consider would just be if you have a close relationship with this individual or a relatively friendly relationship with this individual, you might consider just having a private and casual conversation about it. So maybe just just acknowledge that you saw the post and say something along the lines of, hey, I saw your post on LinkedIn. You know, what are you thinking about leaving? Are you looking for a new role? And then this person might be willing to kind of share with you, you know, acknowledge like what it is they were doing. It could just be a simple conversation and seven interrogation. But the last thing I would suggest here is just remember that your role as a team member is different from that of a supervisor, right? So approach that situation with empathy, with privacy, with respect. If they choose not to discuss it, it's just respect that decision and continue working collaboratively as usual. Right. You said that. I feel like if we had asked this question a mere five, 10 years ago, it would be totally different because we have a different environment. You know, we had a different environment in the workforce, right? And now we're so challenged with filling positions. So I feel like there's a new level of fear when it comes to talking about employment, you know, especially in the nonprofit sector. It's a very interesting question. It really is. And you know, I love it that you brought up specifically the nonprofit sector. I don't have the data in front of me, but I do know that I've read this before. There tends to be more turnover in the nonprofit sector, particularly in fundraising roles than in any other industry. And so I wouldn't say it's particularly unusual that this individual is looking maybe for a new job. I also think I think there's some data out there today that shows that in this new generation, we don't tend to see people who stay with companies for 20, 35 years like they used to. So this concept of job hopping and moving from one role to another is actually quite common. So again, I don't think it doesn't necessarily indicate that they're dissatisfied in their role or that there's dissatisfied with your organization or your mission. If anything, it could just be a personal choice to move or maybe they're looking for a remote role that allows them to stay home with their children more, who knows what it could be. Yeah, I agree with you. AFP Association of Fundraising Professions reports that the development director here in America, this is development director. So the highest level within that development team is shockingly only about 18 months. And so most HR people will tell you that it takes between six and 12 months for a new employee to be inculcated with what goes on at the business, right? Like where to park, where the bathrooms are, everybody's names, how to dress, how to address one another. Think about that. Yeah, I've read the same thing and it was surprising when I read it, but I think there is a lot of turnover and it's particularly difficult for nonprofits to find and keep quality talent in fundraising in particular. And I mean, that's a whole nother topic. I think there's a lot of reasons for that. We could talk for an hour probably on that alone. But again, I think just being the key here is just remembering that your role as a team member is to support and not necessarily to oversee or supervise. And so just to be supportive of this person and to understand that there could be a number of reasons why they made that content on social media. Amazing. Well, Meredith, you've been just a joy to work with. I love that I got to learn something new about you today. Meredith Tarian is one of the new trainers of the Raising Academy, she comes from Tampa, Florida. Thank you for giving me grace with some of our technology here today. If for those of you who were maybe on earlier, it worked in my community, which doesn't seem like a big deal, but we live in the desert when it rains. Sometimes our broadband gets a little wonky. So for those of you that were with us today, if you felt like we had some lagging or glitches, thank you for sticking it out with us. Meredith, I am going to really push you on coming back and talking to us and our viewers about the nonprofit world in the world of the arm services. Because I think this is a fabulous topic and I can't wait to learn more about this from you. Check out fundraisingacademy.org. Amazing resources. The majority of it is free. It comes through National University. There's tons and tons of information. It's very accessible. It's logical. They do trainings, in-person webinar, and I just got noticed from your team in San Diego that your next Cultivate big workshop convention, whatever you want to call it, is coming forward in May. So you'll be talking about that with us. I'm sure more and more as we get closer to that date. So you will hear that name again, Cultivate. And again, everybody, we've cultivated trust in partnership with our amazing sponsors and they include Bloomerang, American Profit Academy, your part-time controller, non-profit thought leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, non-profit and non-profit talk. These are with us day in and day out as we explore all aspects of the non-profit sector. Meredith, this was really great and I'm super excited to get your perspective in your wisdom on this varied assortment of questions today. Well, thanks so much for having me, Julie. It's always a pleasure to join the show and looking forward to when we get to do it again. Absolutely. Well, we will be seeing Meredith again along with so many of the wonderful minds and talents that the Raising Academy has sprinkled throughout the country. So I feel like, Meredith, when you come on, we also get to get a little bit of a regional perspective as well, which I think is always super cool. So we really appreciate that. Hey, everybody, as we sign off each and every episode of the Non-profit Show, we want to thank you to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here again on Monday.