 Hey there, it's time for voice over body shop and George and I are thrilled to welcome a great friend of ours Johnny Heller Johnny, how you doing? Very well. Thanks for having me guys. It's gonna be a pleasure We're gonna talk about audiobooks and we're gonna talk about his career and we're gonna talk about What's all that time behind his head? Yeah Yeah, we're gonna cuz he's also a great audiobook coach So if you've got a question for Johnny throw it in the chat room and we will get to that in just a little bit We got plenty to talk to him about and we are looking forward to this. Are you ready, mr. Widam? I'm ready. All right voice over body shop right now It's time for voice over body shop Brought to you by voice over essentials comm the home of Harlan Hogan signature products source elements the makers of source connect Voice over heroes become a hero to your clients with award-winning voice over training Voice actor websites comm where your voice actor website doesn't have to be a pain in the butt voice over extra your daily resource for voice over success and world voices the industry association of freelance voice talent and Now here's your hosts Dan and George Well, hello there, I'm Dan Leonard and I'm George Widam and this is voice over body shop or V.O. B.S. All right. Well, we're back and We're past Thanksgiving He survived another one we got rid of the rep there we had the rest of the turkey last night It lets it all weekend and it was basically the primer for the dogs to eat their dinner. So, oh, it's like, you don't like the food here There's some turkey And that's that's how it went and how was your thanks? I heard you had a very international thanks. It was it was fun It was fun We had a I mean we had a very low key one It was just a few visiting friends and I spent the morning riding my bike bicycle up a mountain Which has become kind of a tradition So I wrote up Mount Wilson with a few friends and rode back down again and it was Hard, but it was beautiful and the weather was great It looked like you I was watching the YouTube video or the the Facebook video and I'm like gee usually you just like roll down But this time you went up and then rolled back down. Yes, we earned we earned our turns as we like to say Yes, we did but it was it was a nice pleasant and the weather was fantastic here in Southern, California Yeah, it was yes shoveling all that sunshine Anyway tonight we're gonna talk about audio books because there seems to be an awful lot of you out there They're like I want to do audio books It seems to be the Gateway voiceover Sort of voiceover agent adjacent career that people it's the gateway drug for voiceover. Yeah Anyway, so we're gonna introduce our guest because This guy is one of the top coaches in the biz he knows the audio book business inside out backwards and upside down Johnny Heller is an audio file golden voice narrator and one of the most sought after audio book and commercial VO coaches in the nation and He's a really swell guy Johnny is on the ALA odyssey. He's an ALA odyssey award-winner a Grammy nominee He's narrated over a thousand titles in almost every genre. I got to ask him about that Publishers weekly named him a listen-up award winner in 2008 through 2016 audiophile magazine named him a best voice of 2008 through 2011 and 2014 to 2018 what happened in the in-between years? 2020 and one of the top 50 voices of the 20th century This is getting old here a multiple recipient of book list and publishers weekly starred reviews Johnny is garnered over 30 earphone awards is a 14-time Audi Award nominee and a Ford tie for time Audi award winner Let's welcome to voiceover body shop our good friend Johnny Heller Johnny. How you doing? I should I should do What you didn't say that I said not to do pretty good. Thanks Yeah, the one word answer the one word. Oh, yeah, I think you could shorten all that Whole intro down and just put one word Grizzled veteran. Yeah, they used to say about wrestlers. Yeah, we do anyway You know, it's been a long time since we had you. I think the last time you were on we were still doing e-wabs And George was in Santa Monica, but can you tell us, you know, because you haven't been on in a while We have a a larger audience a massive audience all over the world Can you tell us a little bit about your background aside from all the stuff that I just rattled off and have you got a voice over I started as a I started my career as an equity actor on stage and I was doing equity and I did stand-up comedy. So I do Show on the Blackstone Theater in Chicago and I'd Come down to 10 and I'd drive out toward toward the airport area and do and I'd work for that was on the evening Evening menu for the comedy clubs at night So I'd do my sets at about 11 and again at midnight or so so I do stand up and then and then I was studying acting Of course and my guru was one of those voice of God guys his some agents came to Watch the thing and they liked they thought I had a quirky voice because I have a quirky voice So they decided to send me out as a voiceover guy And I didn't even know that was that existed and the first job I got the first job I addition where I got was a national for Campbell soup And this is before internet and everything before the Model T and they They had a traveling band from New York I went from to New York to LA to Chicago to find this voice and the audition was literally this I've done it many times to demonstrate my skill. I was this Mmm-hmm That was it. And so I got the gig But you must have done it just What the hell couldn't do that these guys just wanted these guys wanted to go on it Just a drink junket from New York to LA to Chicago because they could have found Anybody at a diner anywhere who could say after having their soup Well, you know acting stuff because you know, you get that words in front of them and they're gonna freeze up and go Just complete how do you screw it up? I don't think I gave what they wanted It's since then I played I played dogs who are happy about getting a treat or yee-hee just all the in the realize how Crazy the the commercial voice over business. Well, but I did a I did a lot of that a lot of on camera and then I When I was still ten and bar because you know, I I did real work You know ten and bar and all kinds of restaurant stuff like 25 years my my overnight success took a long time So Richard Farone the late great Richard Farone My dear friend introduced me brought me in a recorded books because they needed a youthful sounding guy or the quirky voice Who was high-energy? And there I was so I got hired right away started working at recorded books and think 1991 and And that and why I thought it was I thought it was just another thing to do while I waited to become a famous second banana in a movie or something and Instead it became my my my everything and since then it's been you know, I've done I do other stuff I still do stage and still do voice, but it's it's where I really live. I guess it's what I really love it Yeah, what really led you to doing that? But you know, I mean obviously there was an opportunity there for you to do it You just found you liked it or was it something really I found it fit my schedule for everything I could work schedules around it It was a little different the way I got in because I knew a guy But they needed and they basically hired me right off the street That just doesn't the opportunity like that doesn't exist anymore But what I liked about it was The organic nature of it the idea that the storytelling aspect the idea that it was very much like a nice mix between film Which is big jazz hands and loud but organic with the script and in cinema and film acting Which is small and get it's it there It was a it was a mix of every every thing I had learned and studied in my career Coming together to just share the author's truth in a way that made it that made it works. I was quite It just it just worked for me. It's what I really found. I I really enjoyed it. Sadly. It doesn't pay as much as other Vio opportunities, but it certainly takes care of me I mean, it's it's been very rewarding on every level financially and otherwise Yeah I mean, it's a lot of people will use audio books when they're like between gigs and they got to fill the space there And it's like oh, I can do an audio book and and then they try doing an audio book and learn What's involved in doing that sort of thing? The I have a good voice. Let's do it. It's just not is doesn't always work yeah, if you're just joining us our guest is Johnny Heller and and his dogs and My wife kiss came home. Yeah, and if you have a question for him throw it in the chat room and We will get to your questions in just a little bit But we got a lot to ask him to so perhaps we'll ask your question before you have a chance But Jeff Holman is back there in the chat room writing everything down and passing that on to us so You're so you're doing audio books and I take it that's the your Majority of the work that you're doing these days Right in between running my workshops coaching and audiobooks, but our audiobooks takes up Is the major part of my day and my income and it's my it's still my joy. I mean it's To do something It's not hard to get up and go to work a because I live in a Manhattan apartment with two rooms and This booth is in one of them. So I get out of bed and there's the booth, but I love what I do I really really really every day is a Chance to tell another story do not I One of the things I never ever wanted to do was have a job. I had to do to put food on the table And I absolutely love what I'm doing And I I mean do I wish there was a lot. I mean, I It's not bad money at all I want to say that but it's not commercial money and there's rarely Residuals unless you're doing an ACX or you know, wealthy share project So that's why a lot of agents don't want this but there's you know, there's still good loot You know, you do a book. Let's say you make $200 a finished hour. Well a 10-hour book. That's $2,000. So I Recommend that you don't do your own editing and mastering and I promise you can't do your own proofing But if you just do them, that's there's not that's not a bad way to make a living 200 bucks an hour is nothing I you know Yeah, if you how much do you like to do yourself? I like you said don't proof yourself, which I've been telling people for years Don't self-prove. Well, yeah, as I said George, you're the tech. I'm the I'm absolutely I'm not only I'm very little you post a tech. I don't I don't understand it I don't want to I've I had some people I'd zane birdwell is a great guy and some other people come over at this house and Plug all the crap in and I don't know where things go and I don't want I just want to hit the button that says record and then here's an idea Here's my job once I do in terms of tech I hit the record button and I say what I want to say and if I make a mistake I do punch record fix it and when I'm done with that track it consolidate and save And then I go the next track and then when I'm done with that I put it in the who's ever FTP and I don't do another thing to send me retakes. I Think the industry average and working is like two to one two hours in the booth for one finished hour Now my rate is better than that. So yeah, but it should be at this time anyway But I you can't proof yourself because you wouldn't say something wrong if you didn't if you didn't know better See and people just didn't tell you that it's integral or integral one's right one's wrong If you don't know then get someone to proof the damn thing and in terms of mastering and editing I Don't even know what that means and if it's two to one just to record it It's gonna be five or six to one To do all that then there's a law of diminishing returns economics comes in and you might as well be working at McDonald's Yeah, right, right. Yeah. So yeah, I say let the tech geniuses and God bless you all for being that Do their job pay him for it you make more money paying someone else to do that stuff and you go ahead and keep acting Yeah, it's time well spent as George and I a test to it's like you get it right up front You save a lot of stuff bad a lot of work on the back end Once again, we're talking to Johnny Heller if you've got a question for him throw it in the chat room right now So what is your typical workday like? I mean don't mean you said you get up you go into your booth I assume you have coffee and oh, yeah, you want you want to your wife. You know, I know everything I do. I'll see you know, yeah I'm I walked the dogs. I Like I have to make sure that I feel ready to work. I mean, I've been And I there's always something to do that's one of things when you have your own business and everybody has to realize This is this is your business is who you are There's always something to do if you don't have a book you have something to do But there's always a book to prep work to do So I've got a I've got a little board outside this on the other side of slow the fuck down It's a the other side of the wall is a board that's got all my all my books and Joanna's books And we make sure we're not gonna we have time together in the time separately in the studio to work together one studio two actors So my I go in and I I knock out I don't I schedule in my phone my calendar. I schedule record. It'll say 11 to 3 well in there. I know I'm gonna have lunch. So let's say I'm in there But I'm gonna I'm gonna get that's my work time And if something comes up that interferes with that I have to take the hour or the 15 minutes or 20 minutes I lost and reschedule it another time. I'm a big believer in writing the thing writing your schedule down So you stick to it I'm and I'm also a big believer in leaving your booth Five ten fifteen minutes on every hour Some people stand some people sit I sit but you got to get up and move around and also you got to get out of there It's an unnatural thing To do what we do and to stay focused I mean if you're in the booth and you're getting hungry and you're thinking about lunch Then you're not in touch with with what's happening in the story So if you're thinking about a tuna melt then you you should then you got to figure out where that started and go Get a damn tuna melt and then come back. So you've got to be aware of what's happening Body wise so my schedule my day is every day. I'm in the studio two to five hours depending on what kind of Deadlines I have sometimes they do more than one book and out of the same time But I'll do like a children's book in the morning and then take a lunch break and then go to the adult History in the afternoon or something. It just depends what I what I've scheduled myself for a big part of the actors the audiobook actors day is Comes before the day starts in saying yes to projects and scheduling them in a way that makes sure you're gonna be on time Being late without excuse sickness is an excuse being late without a fair excuse is is Problematic and it's gonna make sure you don't get hired again My my my version of success in the industry is being hired twice by the same company or the same author You know, that's it's not it's not the Yelp. I mean the audible reviews. It's the It's getting hired again That means they like Absolutely exactly So what are you working on these days? What's what kind of projects you're working at nights? No, you do all sorts of genres because you do fiction nonfiction. Yeah, I'm one of them. I'm kind of blessed to To be able to do all I do everything which is wonderful. I don't have to I'm not specialized So I've been working on I've got a bunch of new books coming up. I've got The Thomas Prescott series it's a prequel to Nick Pirog's wonderful character Thomas Prescott. It's called The Numbers I just got the prep for that I'm working on book nine or ten of the Johnny Dixon missions, which is a YA teenage Kind of a goose bumps remember goose bumps books. Oh, yeah, I've done a call. It's like goose bumps But goose bumps for Catholics It's what's really Catholic That is his wonderful characters in there and so the characters have returned it's like book nine I think there's ten of them. So that's through Blackstone and then I've got some away. You know the book, you know, um What's that book John Somebody went to Mars John something John carton John Carter goes to remember that movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah those kind of books those are fantasy adventures Like Jules Verne and Edgar Rice Burroughs did them away since audio has me doing a couple of those coming up I've got a private I think coming up Gosh and what what is there's something else? But I forgot what it was. I've got a bunch of things on the a Bunch of things lined up. Yeah, it'll it'll show up. Yeah, it'll show up when you when you get to your My book and I said, oh, yeah, that one Once again, we're talking with Johnny Heller about audio books now You've you've you've been coaching a lot, you know A lot of people know you as as a an audiobook coach primarily Uh, how did you get into doing that? Oh, that started Let's see. I think and the early Mid-2000s or something. I can't quite remember. I was asked Some people want to say can you talk to us? I think a group asked can I talk to them about audiobooks and I've been going on the road for recorded books to libraries and doing readings and talking about audiobooks and sort of an ambassador And then some people said I came up My first big where I started coaching individually and those people said, hey, would you do something? We're coming to town for um, the apa convention and uh They asked if I would do something they had a free day Well, I think it was a monday because ap was going to be on a tuesday. It's a 2015 and I did my first splendiferous workshop At the beacon hotel here in new york is really what it was so much fun. We had I One of my workshop things is to make sure I have coaches. It's not the johnny heller shows It's scott brick and it's sean pratt and it's Joanna perrin and it's carol mondah and hillary huber I bring in big coaches big big good people to share different things because I know what I think I don't I I need to learn too. So I want to hear what the other people have to say So since that I've done a splendiferous workshop One or two or three a year every year and scott brick and I He's involved in all of those things with me. He and I do our business workshop this year We'll be a little we're not sure about the timing of any of that. Um We have the um, should I plug these things now? Is it now? Are the entire idea of our show is utterly shameless promotion To talk about what you're doing. Oh, here's here's what's coming up. Okay in in march We're doing where I think all of us would be at vio atlanta and then that we ends on a sunday on the 25th on the 26th I think is apac On that night or parties and things The next day tuesday is a big sag after a national meeting. So I don't want to compete with that and that evening is the audis um, which is the awards ceremony for the, um Audio publisher association awards I do something called the naughties which I've had for years And it's just a party to come to because there's nothing to go for people who were in town for the convention But didn't have a place to party. So I happen to know bartenders and bars You don't know why so, um uh, I put together this the naughties with the actually with the Jeff kaffir and melissa xl breath and we started this thing and it's been going great So you get there on seven. It's going to be connolly's on 45th as it always has Get there on that tuesday night. You if you're going to the Audis come after as the after party if you're not going Come and enjoy yourself. I mean it's buy what you want drink what you want eat what you want And then after it's all you can dress like i'm dressed right now And then uh, and then afterward people the tuxedo and gown people come So it's kind of it's kind of fun. And then that wednesday the next the day after I'm working on a venue to have a splendid difference workshop I'm going to start it a little later at 10 o'clock for the Because you can be hung over and probably will be so start at 10 and end around 4 and I might bring some Publishers in for that. I haven't worked out the agenda because I'm still trying to uh Lock down the space. I'm not sure how many people will be in in the city for that, but we're going to do that And then uh, Sean Pratt and I With Joanna uh parent frequently and uh, sometimes Anna Clement from Great Britain go on the road And we're not we haven't decided the cities are going through this year. We usually do two or three cities Talk take a fiction and nonfiction audiobook workshop on the road And then in october Either october 16th or the week after i'm not sure we'll be back at the warren center in frayingham Massachusetts just outside boston For I think it's that maybe the ninth New england narrator workshop, which is you're there. Uh, we get there monday where there are tuesday wednesday. We leave thursday Last year we had a penguin ran a mouse publisher was with us macmillan was with us spectrum audio was with us and uh Dreamscape so we have um It's it's it's really wonderful time and it's kind of like in up with people camp with less singing Now we didn't say what what goes on at these workshops. I mean you just not sitting there reading books Monday's dinner and cocktailing we do a listeners lounge every night Um, which is where I started that in the apax some years ago Where I had some of the finest narratives in the in the land Do their work and and they still carry on but there's change now. Um We have listeners on people get to read their stuff then we do karaoke in the meantime. There's a fire outside Uh, there's a marijuana distributor right across the street. So there's there's you know, there's there's there's there's There's partying happening and then um The next morning we begin with a panel we have breakfast and a panel discussion Then we break out into a four or five different workshops. You pick what you want Then there's lunch and then we have directed readings with our coaches and the publishers wander from directed reading to directed reading Listening to the various narrators do their stuff and and sometimes they they give input Sometimes they don't but a a lot of people get get work or certainly get noticed And there's always a chance to interact and we spend this because it's three or four days With you become friends with these people Which is so important because people gosh actors put Casting people and publishers and agents on these pedestals And it's it's an unfortunate Way the business has grown. No one belongs on a pedestal Um, and these people aren't they don't want to be in a pedestal, you know, they're they're regular They want to talk they want to they want to meet that you have to understand casting people Want to know you they want to cast you they want to find you They want to give you work unless you suck in which case they don't but that only makes sense So I just think that uh, and that's what's great about apac too, frankly He gives a lot of actors pressing new people a chance to meet People can help them in their career which can be their fellow actor as well Absolutely more often than not I get a lot of work from fellow actors and I've given a lot of work to my fellow actors Yeah, that's that's always great about that's I think it's one of the great things about the voice community is we We really do network and we really do look out for each other and yeah, it's a fellowship It's a community and granted there are people in who are like But by and large by and large it's it's I've never I've ever ever been a part of such a uh Such a swell group of humans plain and simple. Yeah We're talking with uh, johnny heller again If you've got a question get it in the chat room right now We we will get to him and just those questions in just a little bit now You were talking a little bit about relationships with publishers and authors There are so many people trying to break into the the audiobook business, you know You know george and I are constantly talking to people. You know set up our studio. I'm doing audiobooks And we're like okay, and it's doing audiobooks You know sonically can be a little bit different than doing voiceover because of as you were saying there's a lot of Post stuff that you have to know how to do Uh, but if someone's trying to break in What are some basic steps that somebody should do in order to say I want to do audiobooks and and try and dive into the pool Well for one thing you need to research the industry a little bit Um, the notion that you know, we said you had a good voice. You should do audiobooks is it's just it's Unfair in everybody who does this Research the know a little listen to a damned audiobook Um Sean Pratt has a little video on youtube and basically he just tells you to go in a closet and read for a couple hours There's something to be said for that you have to be able to sustain your connection with the material and with the story For for a prolonged period now it doesn't mean you're not allowed to make mistakes everybody makes mistakes, but a voice or commercial voiceovers 15 seconds 30 seconds 45 seconds 60 seconds That's how long you're you're doing the spot and you have to be connected for that much time We'll extend that to you know a 10 hour book or 15 hour book or however long it is You have to be it completely in the author's head You have his words or her words have to go through you as a conduit to their truth. It just has to happen um I believe that what you need to do is one recognize it as acting as a matter of fact recognize every single voiceover genre you've ever heard of as acting because it is And if you're not willing to accept that then maybe you need to reconsider the whole idea Also start thinking about the fact that no matter whether it's e-learning telephony, whatever it is. It's not necessarily easy money There's talent. There's skill. There's training Get some training if you've never had it get some um Here's the deal. There's just A boatload of books out there tons and tons of there's plenty of work for you um I would say what what's the the apa came out with some numbers not long ago about the percentage of books that actually Get produced in audio and the audio when I started was a multi-million dollar business Now it's a multi-billion dollar business But there's a lot of books that never ever get picked up So if you get to meet an author let's say george wrote a book You know my my life riding bikes in in in la canyons Never happen With maybe not the interesting to anyone but george, but I bet there are people who like it And he wants me to do it. So he and I here's a guy Who says how do I get it to I've had authors kind of me a lot? How do I get my book in audio? Because every artist every filmmaker every every everybody who makes art wants their art to be seen And not every bit of art is great. Not every story is great But the listener can never ever suspect that you the narrator don't like the story So it's just like getting a role in a film and you read the script and you're like, how did this get or you see a movie? We go how did this get made? Yeah, yeah, because to somebody It's the best movie they've ever made. Yes. Yeah, right? It's the best book they've ever written and it Of all the trauma team releases one of them is her favorite trauma. Yes Trauma films. Yeah Yeah, well, it's just it's just important a lot of people don't take this seriously You can't say I'm having a hard time acting. I think I'll take an audiobook on excuse me. That's just not how it works Pardon me. Um, it's it's it's It's a craft acting is a craft And I recommend everybody who does it I think everybody I think everybody no matter who you are you should every stake an improv or a scene study class Everybody everybody the same way I think if you want to go to a restaurant you should work for a week in a restaurant Once too young to start with taking classes of that Nature in the audience in terms of acting. I don't know when it's too young in terms of audiobook hard to say um I It's not my nature to teach kids because I have signs up like that I I I work a little blue sometimes so I don't I'm not comfortable I'm not comfortable. So I you know, I would say if you're gifted And not just because your mom told you if you're gifted high school because You know, there are a lot of roles like when I started I did a lot of little kid roles. Well A little kid might be better at that. Certainly now that I'm an old man. They better have a little kid um But you think about Certainly in college I mean, I don't I don't there's no like 18 you can vote you can drink you can do audiobooks I don't know what to know. I don't know what it should be But I think you you need to be it's but it's a serious craft It takes dedication and a real lot of work. So you have to love literature for one thing You really do you got to love it because gosh, there's a lot of books that aren't You think how what what why why? Who gave this asshole a typewriter? So you gotta But that that's not that can't come out in your reads Absolutely, I'll be happy to dump on authors later, but not not now Yeah Once again, we're talking with johnny heller and uh, we're gonna take a little break right now And uh, we'll be back if you've got a question to get through it in the chat room We got lots of them to get to so we'll see in just a minute johnny heller here on voice over body shop. We'll be right back This is the latin lover narrator from jane the virgin anthony menders and you're enjoying dan and george on the voice over body shop It's the holiday season And if you're a voice talent not everyone in your family or close friends really understands what you want for your home voice over studio You want a what? 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They are offering some of their software packages or softwares Um at some pretty steep discounts. So a lot of you are probably already aware of the fact that they have subscriptions This is not going to be for subscriptions This is for people that are like, you know, I've been paying for the subscription for four or five years I just want to have the license now. I don't want to keep paying a subscription and a lot of folks feel that way This is probably for you. Um, they are offering Source connect certificates and courses with some discounts So if you want to actually go through some formalized training From the team at source elements and you really want to understand how that software Works in your studio and have a better understanding Of you know, just feel more prepared when a source connect session happens They're offering those with some discounts 40 off in some cases They have source connect upgrades, uh at a fair deal. Um, there's a lot of offers here and it's really It literally is and as it says here first ever black friday sale in 17 years That they've done it But anyway, if you want to get tuned in just go to source dash elements calm and these deals literally do end today on black friday Um, so you you got a jump on it Anyway, thanks for listening. Let's get back to the show right after this Hey there, i'm david h laurance the 17th and with my company vio heroes and my team of coaches and my community of voice over talent We guide voice over actors along their journey And you may be watching v obs here, uh, and not nearly as far along as many of the other people who are watching You may not even have started yet And we actually specialize in helping you do just that so if you're watching all the stuff going on here on v obs And going i have no idea what they're talking about. I don't know, but I really want to do this I'd really like to help you Please go to vio heroes.com slash start That's vio heroes.com slash start and you can take our getting started in voiceover class Which tells you everything you need to get started as a voice talent And I'd love to hold your hand along the way and help you with that journey Again, vio heroes.com slash start That's vio heroes.com slash start This is bill radner and you're enjoying voiceover body shop with dan lennard and george widham v obs.tv And we're back with johnny heller. We got a pile of questions. You you have a lot of sure do clearly Yeah, I've a lot of what? You have a lot of fans Come on with you Uh, first question from laura patamkin george. You got the question Yes, johnny says as she says johnny. What are the best ways to acquire work from the big five publishers Well, um, how do you get an agent question? Yeah, it's yeah, well Well, you should you should marry one of the people who work there. Um I said, I there's a number of ways first off. They are always looking for new talent I know for a fact that penguin random house Has ahab talent dot com where you put up your profile like you do in acx and they have auditions That are supposed to be sorted to meet Your profile I'm not sure it's it's not as tight as it ought to be because I know I get a lot of uh opportunities to audition as a Young Kenyan girl, um and weird stuff like that, but they have there's that Um, I know that they on clubhouse. You'll find um Uh, the penguin random house and I think harper collin sometimes does Live things you can get on vote if you're in social media and you kind of need to be even though I know it's problematic Um, a lot of the publishers Casting people are there Also go to their website. They'll tell you on the website how to reach them Do what they say When you reach out to big publishers or any publisher anybody who can cast you You want to answer You want to be the answer to their problems. You don't want to create new problems So talk to them And reach out to them the way you'd like to be reached out to if you were them. They're all nice people But the biggest thing make a list and also take a look at what's in their catalog So you see the kind of work they're doing and say, hey, you know, I saw you guys did this book I love that book if you have anything like it on my on my website on my demo I've got something that I think you might enjoy and link them right to that place. That's okay Just you know, so make something make make a difference. Make yourself known Don't be a pain in the ass and you know when you are you know it um, and and you want to On your website, this is super important. You you got to have your demos up there The link if you're going to go to uh, uh, dan Leonard publishing And you said mr. Leonard, I want you to hear my I want you to go to my site and see it Tell me what you're thinking my demos and he goes to the site and he's got to go through all your your high school Uh, um the baton twirling championship ring and stuff. He doesn't want to see that get him right to where the demos are It should be one damn link to bam when there you are if you want to go back and read about Your accolades and and and your boys got married badges swell But get him right to all the demos. That's important. So and the publishers are also available a reason to join the APA Especially it's better. It's really a good organization if you're starting out. I'm gonna be honest about that they do have speed dating which is uh, um You don't necessarily get picked. I think it's a raffle But you get a chance to be heard by a whole bunch of these people in going to some of these meetings now that now that we've uh Pretended we've defeated covet. We're all meeting up again. So, um, we can go to we can go to a pack and all these And everybody's there Everybody's there And if you want to meet him go meet him and and don't Don't be so big on giving out your card be big on getting theirs That's great advice absolutely great advice, you know, and if you need a good demo player We have a free demo player at world voices org Which all members get and it works just click on the link and there's all your demos. That's so important Yeah, absolutely. Uh, kate vizniewski Those of us from buffalo would say it. Um, she says i've narrated a few books And i'm on the rosters of blackstone be audio diane and get auditions from them occasionally I'm also consistently Auditioning via acx. What are other places I should be submitting auditions? Well, I i'm not sure where all the auditions per se are listed I know the dreamscape has a portal, but it's by invitation mcmillan has a portal by invitation So you need to reach out to some of the casting people to see One of the ways to find places. I know i'll tell you exactly what you should do Spectrum audiobooks a smaller house that I work for a lot Uh, it's annalease renny. Your name's kelly rin and that hurt and that's kelly. She's uh, they're always looking for good people My friend sara pocket has pink flamingo That they put there they put their auditions on facebook on their groups. They're there There's if you're looking for people that are higher, they're there and all these people By the way, almost every publisher big or small Does the sag after? contract minimum And and so you're gonna make enough you're gonna make a reasonable amount of money Understand that when you take a gig it's particularly an acx just a warning sign take what you want But you can negotiate your salary Even if it's a royalty share you can say look it's a royalty share I know that uh, george is getting 20 i'm getting 20 and jeff bezos is getting 60 because you know the work he did to help us But you can say george. It's your book. It's your book about you riding your bicycle in the canyons Would you pay uh, my friend dan lennard the engineer To master the thing it's gonna cost 500 bucks But I can't I can't do that you say sure so george sends dan with 500 dollars you just act You get paid you get your royalty share whatever you agreed to while dan's busy mastering you go on to another project It's another reason that you've got get people who know you don't have to wear 17 hats Not every actor is a singer and a dancer It's so you don't have to be a great actor and a great audiobook master Yeah, I don't even know what those guys do I don't I know that I don't know how to do it But I know you can't the book can't go out can't go out to the public until somebody does it So whatever that step is higher the people know how to do it for god's sakes I went off on a tangent leads into another question when you submit the 15 minute samples Are you having somebody prep that before you send it in or I'm sorry 15 minutes. Oh for acx Yeah, are you because I'm telling people that they should be mastered the same way as any other Well, I to be honest. I'd be fair. I don't do a lot of acx stuff anymore. Yeah, um What I did do and what I would do right now if I did an acx I would do the audition and I would hit that consolidate and get rid of the Stuff and and I would and I would just and I'd send what you do is I would take that Yeah, I'd do that punch recorder make this nice. I can but I wouldn't put it through any processing I would just send an mp3 of that To the auditor. I don't know if I'd spend the time or money to have my audition mastered Because a lot of times Certainly publishers and I don't know about acx rights holders want to hear what the raw audio sounds like too What were your booth sounds like with the sound so if you master if you put it through all your Stuff Again, I don't know what I'm talking about if you put it through all your stuff I think it may change What it is and I so I don't know if I'd go through that process and I don't I don't like spending money on auditioning Personally, I don't mind spending time But I don't want to spend money Yep, but so but if you have someone who's willing to master it For nothing why not but I think they prefer it not Which is unlike the finished product right they want to hear this product They want to hear if you can relate the story and then yeah, they want to know if you can do the job They want to hear the the voice they want to hear what you do how you tell the story exactly right down Yeah, george Um, jeff holman are very own He says if you are narrating a non-fiction audiobook Do you have to read the whole book beforehand like when you would with a fiction book? That's a great question and it's I think when you become Skilled at doing all these kind of things Um, it kind of depends on the nature of the book if it's and I'm okay you're not psychological thing or How to be a better marketer in 10 weeks or something In general those books are set up and the introduction tells you what's going to happen And you have an idea the the the official answer is yeah, you got to read it Unofficially if you have a schedule you can kind of if it's a non-fiction generally in those kinds of books You know, I understand you're hurting. Let me help you through the hurt that kind of stuff. It's a repetition Of this thing until it finally sinks into the listener's mind And so you can probably escape reading all you need to need to go through it or something I'm also going to recommend if you don't feel like reading the book then hire a prepper There are such things and they're they're totally wonderful. I know a bunch of them and I use them In fiction you have to read the whole thing. I believe Um, I I've hired a prepper to help me with the book that I've got a a bit of a hurry on but I'm still reading it I want her input so I get so just I'm in the same place But I need to read it so I know what happens because in a story you need to know what goes on In if if the if the non-fiction book is military history or or autobiography Yeah, you got to read it because that reads very much like nonfiction Yep, absolutely Catherine jade jarvey asks How do you find the balance in acting for audiobooks? She says I feel like sometimes I lean into Acting without doing voices or anything then may be desired. Do you have any input for this and is she overthinking it I'm not certain. I understand the question to be fair and I don't want to mislead her She's saying that she's Concerned that she's overacting. I guess they're overacting. Yeah Yeah, let me see. Thanks to chat to ask the question. How do you find the balance in acting for audiobook? I feel sometimes I lean more into acting in quotes without doing voices or anything than maybe desired well, I I think if you feel your here's here's one of the big things You know that john love it when he goes acting and he does that kind of thing Yes, every time every single time and I I'm guilty of it. I bet you guys are too Every single time an actor comes in to talk to me They talk just like this. Hey george. Hey dan. Hey, john. You can we talk with a little chat? Okay, let's go ahead and go ahead and audition now You can't remember all of a sudden there's this new fucking guy Where did that come from is and it's that and I think that we have to work against that And I think that kind of bullshit acting takes you out of the moment I think you need to settle on the idea that Almost all of the audiobook acting we do and almost all acting in general. Yeah, here's what you need to think about The different in audiobook acting this is probably the answer in audiobook acting There's a tendency to think of it as theatrical Because it's a script And it's a story and that's that's what theater is and sometimes there's a director and that's what theater is And you for once in your life get to play all the parts you're king lear and you're in your lady mcbeth you're everybody The thing is Unlike theater there There's no jazz hands. There's no singing out louise. There's no row double j you have this wonderful microphone Who is your audience? And that's who you're playing to So becomes the idea is small the idea is less is more So it's it is acting but it's film acting I believe audiobooks are cinema cinematographers kind of acting. It's a cinema experience I think the author of its fiction or nonfiction uses words like a painter uses Color to create a scene the author creates a scene with his words and the job of the actor is to see the scene And I think I think reading Is like a film that's why when you're reading if it's if it's i'm okay. You're okay or you're hogwarts Whatever it is you're lost in that world. It's a george's dinnertime. George's dinnertime. Oh, okay. Sorry. I was lost in hogwarts Because you're in that other world I think you need the actor needs to create that other world And I don't think it's with Big movements and big acting things. It's much smaller. There's reactions Pardon the audiobooks need to understand there's a um There's a time to react someone says something I never want to see you again What and that that beat that little pause between that and that which is human nature They'll they want to get rid of it because it's dead space on the on the tape on the on the on the wave file That's acting it's okay Yeah, so I think that You're overacting if you're if you're if you seem big If you seem like you're if you seem like you're in the Broadway show of gypsy, you're doing too much It's voice under not voice over. I think oh george perfect. That's I love that. I'm stealing that voice over acting Aren't I stealing that from shatner or something? I swear. I heard him say that maybe sabotage. Maybe you are No, this one's from patricia andrea Uh, she said I tried livervox to do a tiny chapter of a book But it had quite a few characters And mostly men how do you decide not to make weird voices? If there are no requirements to do voices, how do you remind yourself if you do a voice or how do you refrain from doing A voice that whole last part in in a parentheses, but there's no closed parentheses, so I don't know what to do now I'm lost Um, I think the answer is is in the question. Um, you're not doing a voice. You're playing a character I believe And this is what I teach all time characters have to be You have to cast the character from your frame of reference We've all been to grade school in high school and then maybe further schooling and we've all worked in a place or that place We've met people we have families. We've seen film and television all those people we've seen can be characters in our book So let's say that so and so says, you know, it'd be great at that It's Dan Leonard. I can see now I'm not gonna do Dan Leonard impersonation But if I picture Dan Leonard as my guy, I'm gonna give it a different read than if I pictured, um Benedict Cumberbatch You know what I mean? So I think you need to cast your characters from your frame of reference I don't think and I think you need to understand the sorry. Are you saying there's a difference? Yes Only in the Sherlock Holmes portrayal other than that. It's exactly the same guy. Yeah Yes, certainly in the enigma code. He was definitely uh, Dan I saw Dan Leonard a lot of times I got confused because of that. Um, the Watson type. Yes But I think I think you need to be um, understand that a character is is is based on who he is not just a weird voice You build it from the inside out not the outside in And I just I just think also you can understand that different characters You can change your voice. You can be quieter or louder or slower or faster Pace it faster. You know, just a thousand different things to change your voice when someone calls you on the phone Of course now we have it says george a text caller, but george sounds different than dan who sounds different than johnny. It sounds different than Than than sue than than anybody, you know, so you can just what makes somebody different Just you can some people take a long time to speak just Play the character the voice will be there and we already suspended our belief. You don't have to worry about I know you're female playing a male. I know you're not a male. I'm already real and I'm willing to believe you're everybody It's okay carry on tell the story Yeah, and that's the great thing about audiobooks, especially when you hear a great narrator like you or scott brick or Some of the others where you just get totally drawn in and the whole thing is in your mind and you can Follow them on and that's really great Uh terry briscoe asks have you ever tried or ever had a book that took longer than expected because It hit close to home or and it was emotionally draining Oh lord. Yeah, sure. Um Yes Um, I there there are there are many. Um Especially if you're if you're in the moment. I did marley and me um then it took We you know what happened so It took it took probably 12 to 14. It took at least two three hours For me to do the close of the chapter marley passes away. Just I Because When you're crying no one can understand you so and though it's important to play the emotion But you still need to be heard Um, and and also almost a lot of when I started in the business. There was I did a lot of coming of age books And in most of those books the authors had it in their mind that Child a young adult cannot become a teen cannot become an adult Unless their mom their dad their best friend their brother or their dog died I think so there's always so it's always it's always it's always heartbreaking and in any in any book in any story when a character you You like They really enjoy passes away However, it is, you know the the death of someone that you care about So It is an emotional moment for you. So yeah, and and many many many many books It's been difficult for me. But that's Also the joy of acting to get through those things and move on because it's uh You know acting is his real life magnified Absolutely, you get one more in You got time for one or one or two more sure this one's from maple j Julie from youtube how long it does it take to do the audiobook take to do the audio For a book. I have a problem of reading a book Cover to cover I think that's the two to one ratio you were talking about. Yeah. Yeah, usually for every so if the audio book is a 10-hour book assume That the actor spent 20 hours doing it Um, so it's two to one is the industry average again There are people who worked a little slower work a little faster as long as you get your book in by the deadline I'm always early. I I insist on being early But I always get in by the I give a little a little note. First off But I miss maple that I think maple joe maple j You need to start reading the book cover to cover because otherwise you don't know how it ends which is What's the point? um the other thing is If you have a book and that publisher says let's get it in I need it on friday I'm going to tell you They're not in the office on friday. I they're not So say to them in the negotiation and you're allowed to say look that friday is perfect. But you know what? Would it be okay if say you're not in friday because friday is all day If it's if it when you get into the office on monday. It's it's in your files Now you've bought yourself friday saturday and sunday to finish the book in case you need it and you're still in deadline So you want to shoot for a friday deadline and then extend it to the monday morning It gives you three days and doesn't do a thing to their schedule. I promise you forgot their friday. It's not going through their through their mastering stuff And proofing stuff That weekend it isn't in most cases anyway, so you can certainly add not just a little it just gives you an extra three days on your schedule All right Little pro tip. Yeah, well and thank you for we've had a lot of those tonight Yeah, we've this is this has been just golden this hour We really appreciate you being with us johnny again if people want to get a hold of you for coaching And maybe attend one of your workshops. Where do they go? That's it. There you go Johnny heller.com for the podcast listeners out there. Yes Yeah, amazing that you can remember everything in order from all your workshops, but you don't know what book you're doing next I I know a book i'm doing now But there I know i'm leaving one out. There's like there's four or five on my board and I can't remember which one I'm leaving out. I'm very scared. I'm super on american history, but shitty on my history I love doing the the uh the narrative for american history. Anyway, johnny, thanks so much for being with us Always a pleasure looking forward to seeing you next time when we cross paths. All right guys. Thanks so much Alrighty, nice to see you fellas. Alrighty. All right. Do I have to get out of here? Well, we'll figure it out George and I'll be right back after this to wrap things up You're still watching v obs In these modern times Every business needs a website when you need a website for your voice acting business There's only one place to go like the name says voice actor websites dot com Their experience in this niche webmaster market gives them the ability to quickly and easily get you from concept To live online in a much shorter time when you contact voice actor websites dot com Their team of experts and designers really get to know you and what your needs are They work with you to highlight what you do Then they create an easily navigable website for your potential clients to get the big picture of who you are And how your voice is the one for them plus voice actor websites dot com has other great resources Like their practice script library and other resources to help your voice over career flourish Don't try it yourself. Go with the pros voice actor websites dot com where your via website Shouldn't be a pain in the you know what Your dynamic voice over career requires extra resources to keep moving ahead There's one place where you can explore everything the voice over industry has to offer That place is voiceover extra dot com Whether you're just exploring a voice over career or a seasoned veteran ready to reach that next professional level Stay in touch with market trends coaching products and services while avoiding scams and other pitfalls Voice over extra has hundreds of articles free resources and training that will save you time and help you succeed Learn from the most respected talents coaches and industry insiders when you join the online sessions Bringing you the most current information on topics like audio blows auditioning home studio setup and equipment Marketing performance techniques and much more. It's time to hit your one-stop daily resource for voice over success Sign up for a free subscription to newsletters and reports. It's all here at voiceover extra dot com. That's voice over x t r a dot com Yeah, hi, this is Carlos Ellis rocky the voice of brocco and you're watching voice over body shop And we're back Next week on this very show. We will have Tech talk number 91 Believe it or don't uh, there seems to always be more tech I know well, we don't get it. We've got lots to talk about tonight too. So, uh, you know Now if you want to watch tech talk live You can hang out for a little bit and you can ask your questions And then you can be part of the show and then we'll play it next week But we're also going to do it live right after we finish with this hour. So now's the time all makes perfect It Once you get into it. I mean most of you know the show we know how we do. Yeah, anyway, you got some webinars coming up Yeah, I've got well in on the paid paid stuff. I do have a webinar. That's the adobe audition advanced Course or I get to go deeper into multitrack and get into some more tricks That's on november 30th. You can sign up at george the dot tech slash webinars You can get 10 off of that by typing in v obs fan 10 In the coupon code area and lastly in the free side of things on tuesday tomorrow I'm I'm doing an ask me anything on clubhouse, which I do the last Uh, tuesday of the month every month Um, again, that's on clubhouse. Just look for george the tech on clubhouse Alrighty and we've got uh lots of donors people you can look if you want to help support the show We really appreciate it It it makes us it makes the technical end of this so much easier when we have the stuff that we need to do it And we appreciate everybody who uh, donates to us like robert leadham steven chandler kasey clack jonathan grant tom pinto greg thomas a doctor voice ant land productions martha con 949 designs christopher epperson sarah borges philips apyr brine page patty gibbons rob rider shana pentington baird don griffith tray mosley diana birdsall and sandra manwheeler Hey, you can join our mailing list too. So you know who's coming up on the show and uh, you can do that on our website v obs dot tv and click on Subscribe and uh, we'll get you on the list there. We need to thank our sponsors, of course harlin hogan's voice over essentials voiceover extra source elements vio heroes dot com voice actor websites dot com and voice a world dash voices dot org the industry association of freelance voice talent Our thanks to jeff holman for getting all those questions to us in the chat room Uh, and uh, sumer lino for great direction and of course johnny helen for what a great hour of uh tips that he gave us Of course lee penny just for being lee penny. All right. Well, we're gonna re-racket and we get ready for tech talk so don't go away Uh, and uh, remember this is not an easy business But when it comes to your audio if it sounds good It is good. I'm dan Leonard and i'm george woodham and this is voiceover body shop or vio b s Have a good week everybody later