 Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for coming. I am super, super excited for this talk today. I am Crystal Lee. I'm a faculty associate here at Berkman and an assistant professor at MIT. So I'm extremely excited to introduce my friend and colleague, Chow Mbogo, who is currently a fellow in responsible computing at Mozilla and the founder and CEO of a social enterprise that complements classroom learning for tech students called Community Moon. And I'm excited for her to share her award-winning work on computer programming in resource-constrained environments and to share her experience supporting educators in Kenya to create ethical and responsible tech curricula. Her work has been featured in Forbes, Vogue, The Conversation Africa, like way too many places for me to list here, and she is the former dean of the School of Science at her alma mater, Kenya Methodist University. She received her PhD in computer science from the University of Cape Town and her master's degree from Oxford University. So without further ado, thank you so much. Good afternoon, everyone who is here with me, and those of us who joined us online whenever you are located, I'm really glad to be here. It's my first time at Harvard, literally first time today. So I'm really glad to be in the area, and I hope that I've collaborated a lot, you know, of us in the room and those who are not here. I am approximately 11,000 kilometers or 6,800 miles away from home. If I were to take her direct flights, it would take about 15 hours to get back to Kenya from Harvard. But I'm not stranger to being away from home. With today's need for collaboration, building my career over the last several years has meant immersing myself in a global space, virtually and physically. My journey itself is a testament to transcending boundaries and building community whether locally or globally. My career started in computer science and grew to mesh into multiple disciplines. I now contribute to the tech industry at Mozilla Foundation and also by nurturing tech and tech-aligned talent for the industry at Camilio, an unprofit that I founded. I am a communicator of science, a skill that I continue to grow through opportunities such as the one today. I build communities through collaboration with individuals and organizations having done so in Africa, Kenya, and globally. Also, my work in computer science research focuses on supporting learning in two ways, teaching programming in resource constrained environments, and using structured mentorship to implement classroom learning. These first four arms of my career build a natural defeat, which is my passion as an educator. And this focuses on humanizing tech and bridging the skills gap between classroom learning and global competitiveness. As an educator, my career involves working with both students and fellow educators who then impact their own students. Therefore, I mostly work to serve the youth demographic. And this demographic plays a significant role in innovation, not just as a user, but also as a creator. And in Africa, there's something special about the youth demographic. Africa has a youthful population with 70 percent under the age of 30. And it's expected that in the next seven years, the continent will be close to up to 42 percent of the world's youthful creation. These trends mean that there's tremendous opportunity for job creation, talent development, and involving the youth in politics, justice, and political creation, and so on. These trends also mean that Africa's innovation landscape has a varied brand, user, and creative base that have contributed to some of the interesting digital trends. And I will share the four examples. In 2021 alone, African-based startups attracted over four billion dollars in venture farming, two and a half times more than they did in 2020. With financial technology startups accounting for most of the venture farming we take. Partly to contribute to this growing startup environment and also to take part in global opportunities, skilled building has been at the forefront of sectoral development. For example, Githam, which is one of the world's largest codeposting platform, recorded a significant increase in the number of new African developers in 2022. For instance, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, and Morocco, so at minimum 30 percent growth in the number of their new developers on the platform. Also, many African learners are using digital platforms for talent development. So for example, for Sarah, which is one of the largest new platforms, listed the three African countries as one of top 10 by learner growth in 2021 alone. And for Sarah also indicated that the three top most skills that are most sought after by learners include business skills such as communication, technology, such as computer programming, and artificial intelligence like machine learning. And speaking of machine learning. In the wake of recent advertisements and conversation with artificial intelligence, literally and otherwise, it is worth measuring that Africa is home to over 2000 AI focused companies. 40 percent of those were founded in the last five years alone and majority are focused in the tech sector. These trends are only a few instances for some of the interesting digital development that has happened on the continent of the whole. A part of that reason for these positive trends is the increased number of relevant policies. For example, the Africa Union's Agenda Trends degree is a 50-year framework that encourages member states to build non-investing economies. And this laid the foundation for the digital transformation strategy that provides a step-by-step roadmap that member states can use to implement digital initiatives. And also collaborations like the Smart Alliance Africa that's a partnership of up to 13 African countries that have a goal to rewrite technology for socio-economic development. But something interesting is that over the last few years, a lot of countries are looking into designing startup acts. So for instance, Tunisia was the first African country to pass the startup act, followed by Senegal, Ayia, and Silesia. And just last year in October, in 2022, Nigeria passed their startup act as well. And Rwanda, Ethiopia, and Rwanda, Kenya are all in the process of passing and discussing that act or developing the same. So these policies provide an environment where trends that we've looked at can continue for an upward trajectory. And also, we are responsible for putting them through. What these trends mean is that there's plenty of opportunity to build uprocentric innovations ethically, transparently, and in an inclusive manner so that they can address issues in digital literacy, infrastructure, local talent development, government policies, and so on. And this is applicable to most, if not all, African countries like Kenya. So Kenya is one of 54 African countries and located from the eastern side of the continent. In terms of land size, it's about 6% the size of the United States, or it is approximately the size of Texas state. Kenya is home to the first African women who won a Nobel Peace Prize, the late Professor of Ghana Drive, for her work in environmental justice. Kenya's capital city, all the green city under the sun, is a city that is thriving both socially, technically, and also in a number of economic ways. And it is the only city in the world with a game park is less than 10 kilometers away from the city center, the Nairobi National Park. I live and work in Nairobi, and my work is on two sides of the education question. On one hand, my work involves supporting tech students and tech online students to nurture outside classroom skills in order to be globally competitive through structured mentorship and I do that as community. On the other hand, at Mozilla, I support educators to build ethics into their curricula so they can train students who can think holistically about the innovations to solve some of our most pertinent economic problems. Therefore, the two arms of my work contribute to the Kenyan Tech Industries, an industry that has shown really interesting strengths over the last couple of years, and I'll share four examples. The Kenyan Texan is a bubbling and thriving landscape that contributes up to 80% to the country's GDP and is part of a really crucial contributor to the Kenyan economic space. Some of the plans in the tech ecosystem include global companies that have recently opened offices in Kenya, like the Microsoft Africa Development Center, or the Visa Innovation Hub that opened its office in Nairobi as the first innovation hub in Africa, and only one or six of its innovation hubs globally. Just like in most places in the world, the COVID-19 pandemic accelerated digital adoption in business and personal use. For instance, small and medium interfaces like Ahadi, which is a relocation company in Kenya, adopted Google ads and Google services to expand their user base and their growth rates. One of the contributors to the Kenyan Texan is the High Education Center that enrolls at least half a million students, up to 10% of whom are in tech related courses. These strengths are also enabled by government policies, such as the digital bus plan that was launched just recently in 2022, and a certain year plan that provides Kenya with a framework for digital development. And this is built on already existing policies, like Kenya's Bishon 2030 and the Science, Technology and Innovation Act. All these aspects of the Kenyan Texan means that significant progress has been made to create an enabling environment. But some gaps still remain. And these gaps could be addressed by responsible computing, such that the design of technology can include holistic thinking. Some of these gaps can be found in digital access, gender inclusion, data availability, and talent development. I will explore just these four gaps and then suggest opportunities for how is possible computing and contribute towards the solution. Then I will give two examples of innovations that seek to address some of these gaps. More than half of the world is online, but this is the headline of a digital inclusion article that was written in the 2019 Mozilla Health Report. But at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, there was an increase in the number of people who became connected globally. So I couldn't revise that statement to read more than 60% of the world is online. But these two statements are proof that while most of the one is connected, they still digitally unequal in a lot of places in the world. And Kenya is no exception. With a population of up to 50 million people, Kenya has a mobile SIM card subscription date of up to a hundred and thirty-two, because some people own more than one SIM card. Similarly, the ownership of multiple mobile devices means that the percentage of mobile phones connected to the network's hand at a hundred and twenty-two percent. Now, if we shift our focus to looking at the ownership of what type of mobile devices, we see that more than 50% are feature phones. What that means is even as we design and innovate for smartphones, we shouldn't forget to design and innovate for the users who still have feature phones. And also being cognizant of the fact that owning a mobile phone does not necessarily mean that this phone is available for use, especially individuals who are of the national electricity grid or where availability of electricity is inconsistent. And while the majority of Kenyans live in the rural areas, there's only a 36% internet access rate in those regions compared to 59% in urban areas. Some of the barriers to internet access extend beyond the lack of ownership and access to devices or infrastructure. And they include affordability, limited digital availability, the right content that users can relate to both in language or even type and limited meaningful connection, and so on. What these examples mean for responsible computing is that innovation technology should consider access technology beyond just device ownership. Looking at gender inclusion, one of my favorite Ethiopian programs is Shifu Lance Teachings. So I've adapted it to read Shifu Lance Teachings. And we can go as far as saying Shifu is digitally empowered transforms, implying that the benefits of empowering women in communities have skids to their communities. But we see a disparity in the gender digital empowerment in Kenyan adult populations. Now, that was obtained for this talk is categorized in two gender identifiers, male and female or one as human. For the sake of this discussion, I will retain those identifiers in the example that I give. So for Kenyan's adult population, men have a slightly higher mobile ownership than women. But if we look at the internet access rates, we find that men have a higher rate of internet access than women. Some of the factors that contribute to this include digital literacy in device use and content creation. And even in some cases, having more autonomy among men to buy, pay for or even choose mobile devices. And for women with disabilities, they barrier for using internet once once since because most of the devices and innovations that we built are mainly designed for non-disabled users. But the COVID-19 pandemic saw an increase in the smartphone ownership of the Kenyan working woman with an increase from 30 percent, 37 percent. Some of those reasons include the working woman being able to use the smartphones to earn alternative sources will come, for example. While in the same period, the working men experience a 2 percent increase in ownership. But overall, the smartphone ownership was still higher among men than it was for women. Unfortunately, though, for Kenyan non-working women, smartphone ownership in 2020-2021 decreased. Some of the reasons for this include the hard economic times during the pandemic where some non-working women had to sell their smartphones to sustain their families, among other reasons. Now, shifting our eyes from device ownership and connectivity, we look at the gender inclusion specifically in Kenyan higher education landscape. Of the students enrolled in tech ecosystem in public and private universities, only 30 percent are female. And this number trickles down as you move from under graduates, masters, PhDs and further on to teaching staff. In fact, in many institutions in Kenya, it is not uncommon to find that there is no female nature acting as a PhD holder in tech related process. Such discrepancies also reflect in the tech sector. Previously, I mentioned that article received over four billion dollars in pension funding in 2021 alone. But on average, female net startups attracted a less than seven percent of that funding. However, Kenya fared a little better than most of the other African countries, with only 29 percent of the venture funding raised by female net startups in 2021. But in 2022, in the past quarter, only 2.5 percent went to female net startups. Some of the complaints that have come from combination of the tech sector include the double-edged sword of limited mentorship in drone models, on the one hand, especially where the high plan she calls things as we go up. And what I like to call over mentorship on the other hand, where female entrepreneurs are presented with fellowships and incubation programs, but no hard cash on the table. So we end up with a discrepancy in lack of funding for female entrepreneurs and very few opportunities for actual money. So these trends show that responsible computing and broadened participation and surface difficult conversations from economic barriers such as access to resources and hard cash, cultural barriers such as practical norms that should use access to technology, professional barriers such as unstructured mentorship that don't consider the needs and skills of women entrepreneurs or women in technology, and even social barriers like disabilities and access of women and girls online safely. Let's look at data availability. The Alliance of Affordable Internets say that limited data availability is like navigating without instrument, because without measured concrete and accurate and available data, innovators and policymakers are hampered in their process. Unfortunately, most African countries do not collect data that they need to make informed decisions or build innovations. For example, Kenya runs fast in East Africa in data coverage. Coverage here means data availability in the last five to 10 years and also availability of categories of data, whether by gender, socioeconomic status and so on. For instance, there's quite a bit of data for the economic setup, but not so good data in state pollution, for example. So the country ranks equally however in data openness being 163rd globally out of 16 countries that work perfect. And openness here means data that is non-procreatory format, downloadable, is machine-readable, has a license, contains metadata and so on. So it is not enough to provide data, but we also have to look at data that is truly open by meeting all these indicators, including gender correct categorization. And ambience for data openness includes limited human and technical resources to collect, analyze and prepare data and even sometimes lack of coordination amongst stakeholders. So responsible computing therefore has the opportunity to provide frameworks that look at the entire life cycle of data, collection, creation, analysis, storage, openness and not just data collection. Moving on to talent development. Non-technical skills are not sub-scales. They are core skills. And responsible computing skills should not be secondary to technical skills, but they need to form parts of curricular hiring requirements, company metrics and so on. But looking at Kenya itself, even as 80,000 graduates get into the job market every year, employers indicates that they incur costs up to 65% of the employers indicates that they incur retraining costs when hiring fresh graduates. Several factors could contribute to these trends. For example, while enrollment has increased in the country, allocation of government funds to institution has not followed the same trend. And this is perceived as limiting technical and human resources that's affecting quality of training. Others have cited too few opportunities for all the graduates that contribute, get into the job market, arguing that the problem is not structure. It is, the problem is structure. It is not the graduates. And skills mismatch has also been alluded to contribute that is a skill gap between classroom learning and what is expected in the industry. Whichever of these reasons, they all show that demand is demand for the structure to structure learning process towards better talent development. So as we restructure to fill the skills gap between classroom learning and global students, perhaps the question to ask is, including the coding interview, should responsible computing skills be the requirement. Another way that talent development occurs is by investing capital in local entrepreneurs. But even as Africa and Kenya enjoys the rise in venture capital and venture investment, expert founders get more funding than companies with only local founders. For example, only 10% of venture funding goes to local founders in East Africa. Some of these reasons for this training include funding for early startups largely emanate from outside the continent, with little to no management of those funds locally. But in the last couple of years, we've seen quite a number of African based venture funding that are coming to fill in this gap, but there's still a lot more that can be done. So responsible computing is not just about upskilling local talent, but it's also about empowering local expertise with resources, money, money, I say that twice, and autonomy, as investors, as well as founders. So I will present two examples of innovations that have continued to work towards filling some of these gaps, Camilimu and Mozima Foundation. The two issues that Camilimu addressed are talent development for skills, gender inclusion, and a third one is data availability. When you look at the skills gap between classroom learning and global competitiveness, we conducted a survey among students from 36 Kenyan universities, and we found that up to 75% of these students do not receive consistent mentorship outside the classroom, therefore leaving a gap in learning 21st century skills. So there is local computing things that we'll be looking at when I present the solution on the results as structured learning, broadening participation, access technology, learning, and assessments. The first part of the solution that Camilimu provides in terms of structured mentorship is conducting a skills needs assessment among students in tech and at a graduate level, and we found that what was missing was six categories of skills, personal development, professional development, innovation, scholarship, ICT skills that are industry relevant, as well as community engagement. So this needs assessment then led to the basis of what the first line of what a structured mentorship is. What's that followed is putting together a collaboration of tiered mentorship, where each mentee that joins Camilimu is supported by up to six different levels of mentors, from peer to peer, to professional mentors, to tech, directed mentors, and to the committee that works on different levels of expertise. The third part of structured mentorship is simulated learning, where the students are immersed in real life environment to be able to contribute to innovations. So for instance, one of the tasks and projects that the students perform are innovation projects that they build throughout the eight months of the program. By the time the students graduate, they're able to live with a portfolio of at least one or two innovations that they can then showcase in interviews or even in their jobs. And the parts of gender inclusion is we ensure that our students that join the program are identified as male or female. We make sure that if we are 34 students, then 17 are male and 17 are female. So these aspects form a structured method of mentorship that then enables us to offer out of classroom skills that are not taught within the four walls of the classroom. The results is that for the last six years, we are now in the seventh cohort of students, and we've served 234 students from 24 career universities. We've also worked with more than 150 collaborators as mentors and organizations to offer the structure of the mentorship. And 97% of Camilimo alumni are in employment. So far, the alumni and the mentees of the program rate the benefits of the program in terms of nurturing employability up to 94% useful dating. So this means that by applying those four responsible competing themes, we are able to meet the needs of students out of the classroom and thus they're able to continue impacting and implementing goals within their programs. Looking at Mozilla Foundation, the issues that Mozilla Foundation, in terms of the four that I presented earlier, are talent development in skills and investment, as well as data availability. And the gap that we are addressing is limited inclusion of ethical and inclusive innovation principles in the tech sector in institutions of paralleling. And that means that the responsible competing themes that we look at are several, but some of them include access technology, structural thinking, running participation, and learning and assessment. So the process is first a needs assessment indicated the gaps in the curriculum in terms of tech, and this needs were then implemented in terms of putting out a call for faculty members to apply for the funding. And so the collaborators that we are working with are Kenyan faculty who are immersed and they are offering tech curricula in their universities. And what the model does is we are offering tech educators the opportunity to redesign their curricula and make that data open with ethical innovation as the founding principle. And of course, all of this is funded. The result for this is we are just about to welcome the inaugural cohort of events this year and myself as the local failure who is in charge of supporting this work, I'm able to support the educators to be able to implement their project. We envision that for this inaugural cohort, we'll have up to 10 Kenyan faculty in part, at least 500 students, and this will cascade upward as we get in more grantees. And for this first cohort, we expect to disperse at least $250,000 to be able to implement this project. And we hope to sell this up as we go along. So what this means is that responsible computing is earning its place to empower Kenyan digital transformation using a contextualized and inclusive structure. So while I may be 11,000 kilometers away from home, the inclusion of this talk in the Harvard series of talk and your presence in the room and those online means that when we come from different geographical situations and contexts, we are all concerned about rethinking, belonging, recreating and re-innovating with ethical principles in mind. And that means that I'm right at the heart that's close to the movement that is doing responsible computing. And for that reason, I am not far away from home after all. Thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. Chow. Are there questions from the audience? I think there's someone running mics around. Thank you so much. My name is Greg Conway. I'm a visiting scholar here with the Institute for Rebuilding Social Media. My question is kind of related and not related. But I'm just curious and excited about some of the things you pointed to. And one of them is the lack of valuable data sets and data. And the irony is we still present data even when we don't have valuable data sets. And that kind of makes me curious in terms of questions like internet penetration. To what extent can we say the data that is out there is really is reliable? I did some checking around a couple of weeks ago and I noticed that what we have today, even with legitimate sources, is actually based on estimates. And those estimates were made like maybe in 2013. And they said probably projections by 2023. This is how the penetration of the internet. But I think over time with technology we've seen unexpected things happening who we never thought about chat GDP. We never thought about all those things. And I think making those estimations kind of like that skewed the data. So I'm concerned about just the idea of internet penetration. Also let's say participation in terms of gender. And then also you mentioned about smart phones. And I started thinking about what is a smart phone. And what is not a smart phone, especially when we think about it in terms of Africa, sub-Saharan Africa. Thank you. I think those were more comments than questions. But thank you for sharing that. You mentioned chat to chat to DPD. And I'm wondering if anyone knows how much of the language model is trained on data that is inclusive of data from Africa? Does anyone have any information on that? Do you think the data model that was trained chat to DPD is inclusive? I can see people shaking their heads. So that's a big question for maybe now. But that's an interesting question. Because yes, you have- I was just going to say it. I can ask things in chat to DPD in Swahili, in Lingala. But does it mean the data set was harvested in that language? Or is it- that's what I'm like. I'm not sure. It's a bit difficult to answer. Yes. But I think it is obviously an interesting question. In terms of how much of the data that trained the language model for chat to DPD is inclusive of all regions in the world. And then hopefully we'll have an answer to that question as we continue to visit students. Any other questions or comments? Hello. Thank you. You mentioned that- right, there is like a data property that I'm not much in Kenya. What kind of data sets are in that? Is it government data? Is it, advertising data? Is it- what kind of data is being collected that would really be useful there? So different agencies are actually working on the data. So for example, the Kenya Open Data was an initiative that started around that. We have the Kenyan Bureau of Statistics that has a really good job in keeping the data. And even data about Kenyan sensors can be found online and it's stratified. So that's why I say we're doing very well in things like economic data. But things like pollution data is part of this frequency. But there's different players who are contributing to that. In fact, if you followed the Kenyan elections last year, the live transmission included been stratified data that you could download and get online and analyze the data protection and whatnot. But there was available data that came in very stratified. So we are doing- we do very well in that coverage that our openness on the other hand is where the data is. But there are different players who contribute to it, both private as well as the government. Hi, my name is Regis and my question is more so, sorry, I feel good and prepared because I heard about this 10 minutes before it happened. So I came with 3,000 questions. Now I have about 15,000. So my question is more, I would say tactical than analytical and philosophical and policy and academic, sorry for the academic people here and so on. It's more practical. So they are challenges, resources challenges. And my understanding because my background is more in infrastructure than anything else. I moved to the US and here my first internet access connection was through phone lines. And up to now, we still have the major providers offering access to DSL. So when we're talking about access to resources, I've exhausted those simple basic like really standard access because when I look at the continent, we are already talking about, we are already in the AI, we are already high speeds, intercontinental, interplanetary, but we don't even have functioning phone lines. So what is, I mean, sorry, I'm thinking as I'm speaking, what are you doing for address that when you say skills needs? Is Mozilla or you in your approach, are you trying to match what's there? Like we have phones that are you using leveraging those phone lines to provide access? Like what's the, sorry, I'm thinking that's okay. So resources, what are the challenges? What real challenges is availability or is not used enough or what exactly? Because I'm having a hard time. Yeah, so in terms of devices, for example, you see that the challenge is not availability of devices, right? So the challenge comes in affordability because having a phone doesn't mean, for example, you can access it or use it. Sometimes there's no money for the internet and sometimes it's about content. So redesigning our content streets, for example, for that the users have is one approach. So we are not saying take the phone they don't have and give them our phones, but to design innovations that fit the phones that users have. And I can give other examples of how part of the work is actually looking at how we can redesign mobile phones that the user have so that students can be able to write Java programs on the phones that they have a small screen and those things are. So the solution one of many solutions will be building innovations that look at the limited size of the screen, look at the limited memory and work in batch to still build for smartphones and for future phones or any type of phone. So the issue in terms of devices is not availability, but in internet that will also be availability, but designing for those different scenarios, which is part of what the work that we're doing, but also part of access technology and the responsible computing scheme means you design for the user, not the other way around. So we actually have a great set of targeting questions that end with a question mark from Cibelo. There we go. Sorry, can you hear me? Sorry about that. Thank you for the talk. I sort of had a few questions. I'll try to list maybe the FM in a way that makes sense. I wanted to sort of understand when you're talking about the ethical innovation, what role are local traditions, ethical traditions, value systems playing in how you and Mozilla are thinking about responsible computing? And secondly, is there any action or legislation currently on taxing big tech companies in Kenya or Eastern Africa? And if you can comment, what is the responsible AI view of that in terms of the social harms or the benefits of taxing big tech in Kenya? And lastly, you spoke about how 10% of local Kenyans receive funding for startups and how most of the money comes from the outside world. Can you comment on if there are any efforts by the government to protect local ecosystems, maybe through taxation rules or tariffs or incentives or some sorts? So what is the local, are there any protections? And what is Mozilla's view as well on also helping the local ecosystem protect itself from outside competition from people going to Africa to start African companies but they're not really African companies at heart? Yeah, I think I can just leave you there for now. So I'll take the last question. Kathy and Steve, do you want to help with the first? Sure. Hey, Savela, it's Kathy. Do you want to also give Dr. Chow one line of your background and your recent and this really relevant as well? Maybe one or two sentences? Sure. I work in ethics and AI with the focus on sub-Saharan Africa. Thank you. And something Savela has said in the past is to really think a lot about local context and traditions of how they manifest themselves in the culture of how we build technology. So leading into I think one of your first questions, I did write them down, so apologies if I missed them and I'll turn it over to Steve who is the new lead for Responsible Computing at Mozilla. We got really lucky because we found Dr. Chow and who is the reason we were able to even launch into Kenya at all and is leading the effort there. And for us, it was a recognition that there was no way our team, even though we launched a U.S. version, would even remotely understand what it would be like to launch a version in Kenya and in any other country around, around Africa and other countries around the world. So even things like the amount of funding that makes sense and which kinds of colleges and universities assuming the words colleges and universities are even the right words to use, assuming that we're responsible computing or ethics, any of those things, recognizing we don't know any of that when we launch a new region. So I think Mozilla is a big push in general. So this I'll speak on Mozilla's behalf and some of this is also a personal offensive of the road. I think in general, one of Mozilla's take is that when we expand, I forget what is above one of our senior reviews would say, but it's just a great quote about about expanding locally, but it's really important for us to expand locally by respecting the people who are local and not at any point thinking that we can design a program for where we are. So we're really grateful to Dr. Chopper bringing that to Mozilla. I lost track and other questions. I don't know, see if there's something to add to that. Dr. Joji, you want to answer the question? So in terms of government efforts, the part that I for sure do not know is if the government is doing anything to protect the whole 10% issue. So that I do not have any information in terms of is there any active way to protect local founders from not getting the funding that I did not have information on. But what I know is that there's a lot of initiatives, especially on talent development and being able to really nurture the development of local even adults to be able to think about innovation responsibly and in a way that they can be able to continue with the type of system. So an example is the presidential digital talent, because I have, I know a few students who've gotten into that. Of course, the downside is we normally, what I again, I call over mentorship or over training. So we can really implement as many problems as we want. But what happens at the end of that pipeline, are we able to take those students and push them in the marketplace? Are we able to find the innovations? So that needs to be addressed. But I don't have information about if there's any sort of protection activity to protect local founders from that particular trend. Did that answer the different multiple questions you had, or is there other outstanding questions you can address? There was a taxation question, because I understand Kenya and Nigeria are the only two African countries to pass any legislation, but nothing has been done from what I understand. So I wanted to kind of understand as well, what are the local efforts at this moment in Kenya for taxing Google and Facebook, as well as, you know, is that also part of responsible AI? Do you think personally, or is an organization that those companies should be taxed? Like how they tax in India, for example, but not in Africa? And have you thought of like, could that power the ecosystem locally, or could that close prices to go higher? Like has there been sort of work in that area? In fact, Sabela, I'm going to even throw a spanner in the works and say that another conversation that is happening besides taxing companies is should remote workers be taxed or people who work on artwork, for example, should you get your cash, then go pay tax at the Kenya Revenue Authority. So those are all discussions that I know are currently happening. And I don't, again, particularly know of how much tax seeing Microsoft or Visa is paying all the other qualities towards that. But I know that they're very difficult combinations, especially when it comes to individual engineers, and in Kenya, there are quite a number who work for companies of good. What is the taxation system? Do I think that those will contribute to the local, to the local ecosystem? Again, my question is does tax contribute to the local system? I leave that open. So Jun, Jun. Hi Sabela, it's Jun. In my other life, I was a tech policy practitioner, I mean, as practice in Kenya for years and years, I know the conversations that are happening from our policies in. So in terms of tax, I work for both Google and Facebook in Kenya, we do pay corporate, they pay corporate tax. That's normal to every other company. There's new tax that was introduced in Kenya, digital services tax for any Kenyan user that consumes digital products or digital services in Kenya. And I think it's about 10 to 15% are not sure. But then what all these companies did is they added it into their regular feeds and it goes down to the consumer. So if you get your bill at the end of the month or let's say Google one services, you'll see that there's a Kenyan service tax there that's been added on the content creators side, especially influencers now and so from media content creators, they are taxed as well. Remote workers, especially in tech, have gotten away with it for a really long time. They've gotten away with not paying taxes just because of how difficult it is to trace and track. And that's an ongoing conversation. Ideally, they should pay either 5% people in tax or 30% pay as you earn taxes every other Kenyan employee, but that's an ongoing conversation that no one really wants to get into. The other tax that I think is relevant for big tech is around excess duty and access to the internet, right? So that was recently introduced and then on going for easy conversation around because the price duty is typically considered being taxed. And so the conversation that we're pushing for is it shouldn't be, you shouldn't be taxed the same way you would be taxed if you consume alcohol or cigarettes or any other in both scenes, as you would for accessing the internet and getting online, especially because of the connectivity gap that we have as a country. I think something else that the Kenyan ecosystem or at least the Kenyan department has recently done was around local shareholding ownership. So those are policy decisions that has been in place for years, probably like 10, 20 years that said that all telco companies and all tech companies that were registered, incorporated and licensed in Kenya had to have 30% local shareholding. Literally, two days ago, the president said we're going to take that out and that has been a big pain because if you're licensed, you'll give it three years to comply with that local shareholding rule and that's been very problematic for local companies. Depending on who you ask, it was good for the local entities because that meant that everyone was participating in the ecosystem at least had a fair chance to compete with global startups and the global ecosystem. But then on the other hand, it referred to close off the ecosystem and the country to other foreign players who bring more investment and income into the economy. It's actually to ongoing conversation that that has just been done away with. They're also having conversations about tax as well. Nothing in paper yet, but then the president made a declaration three days ago. One last question from Elaine in the chat. Could you add this will be the final question of the event, but you also say that government buy-in is an issue around lack of open data and access to public intent data because the Kenyan open data initiative was practically abandoned by the previous regime. Excellent. Yeah, definitely. And one of the issues, the challenges we have in open data is really lack of coordination because especially when we talk of really large data sets, whether it's education or equivalence, all players have to really have a thing because we're moving from collection to even pushing the data on the portal and how the data displayed, how we protect user, I mean the people who are who's that how connected. So the lack of coordination between different stakeholders has been quite a big thing. And then you write the Kenyan open data initiative and that's called and we hope to see that coming back up. So definitely government buy-in because government is one of the biggest players in data collection will definitely be a very key strategy. Thank you so much, Dr. Chow. Let's give her a final round of applause. Thank you so much.