 And really, we've boiled down two decades worth of experience, 100 plus thousand clients, 140 different industries into an acronym that we believe if you apply this acronym to your marketing, you will have tremendous results. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Rota 10,000. You got me. You got your boy Ricky Caruth here. We got Juan Carlos. And today we are chatting it up with Luke Aker. How you doing, man? What's up, man? The names actually agree, but I've heard... I know. Listen. It's my trademark. Listen, bro. Listen, it's my trademark. I never get any last names correct. So that's just how I roll over here. So it's all good, man. The curse on me is that I hardly get first names correct. It's kind of terrible. No, that's really bad. I know. It is. It's been a plague of mine. It's like, I don't know. I was homeschooled growing up. I blame it on that, but it's really just because I'm bad at remembering people's names. It's not good. Yeah. Well, look, man. Let's dive right into it here, man. So Luke is the owner of Reminder Media. So I am a co-owner of Reminder Media. Co-owner. Co-owner. That's owner. Yeah, yeah. We refer to co-owner as owner around here in these parts. Cool. So Luke is the owner, co-owner of Reminder Media. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself, man, a little bit about Reminder Media so we can dive into some, to some real content here. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. So I won't bore you with the long story or give you a 30,000 foot view. Like I said, I was homeschooled, family of eight kids. I grew up thinking I was going to be a rock star, right? So if you ever know the Jonas Brothers, I thought I was going to be the Jonas Brothers. I was in a band with my brothers, who was called the Acre Brothers. Don't look us up because looking back, I realized one of the reasons we didn't make it, we weren't that great. But just like every great band story, love broke up the band. So my older brother Dan got married, so ended up going to community college. And in community college, did a certificate in computers, figured out, oh man, I really like computers. And really looking back, realized that, man, there was a lot of money to be made. And the computer world, this is when the Instagrams obviously are selling for a billion dollars and more and all that good stuff, Facebook and all that. So started a web design business with my brother Dan. So we did a web design business. We did that for about four years in that period. Actually met my greatest mentor in life. I shouldn't say met, but started getting really involved with my uncle. So he had started Reminder Media about 18 years ago. And he started mentoring me in this business, sexmark design. And I look back now and realize he was selling me to, hey man, we should join up together. And so about 11 years ago, him and I joined up together and to make a long story short, it's been an amazing ride. We've gone from about 40 employees to about 300. We've worked with over 100,000 real estate agents now. And to give you just the idea of what we really specialize in is you know how agents have the pain point of they come into contact with all these relationships, all these leads you might call it a lead. And they really struggle to keep in touch. They have it and when the conversation is happening, it's all good. But after the conversation ends, real estate agents really struggle to go, how do I nurture the people in my database? And so what we've done is we step in, we create really high quality touch points, put them on autopilot for agents, not to automate them out of the relationship, but to automate the marketing portion of it. And then our core is we want to then give them the strategies of how to make sure they ultimately turn those into business for them. So that's what we've been doing for the last almost two decades now. It's been an amazing ride for us. And that's what brings me up to today. Luke, that's incredible. So 40 to 300 employees, what's it like growing and managing that type of a company in such a short period of time? So it's extremely awesome, exhilarating, but a lot of challenges. Whenever people are involved, obviously people have emotions. So a lot of challenges. In the early stages, what I tell people from like $1 to $10 million in revenue, a lot of it is the idea and the product. From the 10 to like 30 million, 10 to 20 million range, a lot of it is just in the scale of trying to grow your sales team and trying to get your marketing right. And then really where we're at today, it's all about processes. It's all about McDonald's is amazing. They might not have the best food, but they make the most money, right? Why? Because they're able to produce the same hamburger in every single zone. You have the same experience to every single customer, millions and millions of times a day. And that takes processes. And so that's really what I'm focused on in our business today is how do we break everything down to a flight checklist? Like you have the pre-flight checklist, you have the in-flight checklist, you have the post-flight checklist. How do we do that for every system in our business to make sure it runs efficiently and smoothly? So you're not really like the McDonald's of real estate marketing though, right? Well, I would say from a quality standpoint, we're much better than the McDonald's, hoping from an efficiency standpoint, we're as good as McDonald's. Gotcha, got you. And you're describing the revenue stages for a company. And you say, you know, from zero to 10 million, it's this from 10 to 30. You know, really 10 to 20 is this. You know, and then you say, and then you're where we are, right? Then you're where we are, right? But you didn't really put a number to that. What could be somewhere in a range there? Yeah, we'll do about 55 million this year in revenue. So ultimate goal. I don't know what the next stages will be. Hopefully you guys could interview me again when we hit 100 million. But hopefully we'll hit that goal. So look, when you originally started this company, what was the goal? Did you have a goal in mind in terms of revenue, employee size, impact? Like, what are we looking for? Yeah, so the ultimate vision of the company is this is our vision statement. We want to empower people to live a life of freedom, right? And that transcends like in business, we do that through our mission. So your vision is how you want to see the world, right? Your mission is what you do tactically every single day. So tactically every single day, we empower our clients to close more deals and retain the business that they have. And we do that through a myriad of different products and means. But the ultimate impact we want to leave on the world is, you know, I want Ricky, if he uses us, I want to give him a little bit more freedom in his day, give him back his time so he can spend it the way he wants. And that transcends just in our business, that transcends to my personal life and helping people, empowering people to live a life of freedom, to be able to be free to spend more time with their family, spend more time doing the things they love, less of the time doing the things they hate and the mundane things of life. That makes sense. Yeah, that is that is just it's just I'm kind of mind blown. Actually, man, I didn't realize that that reminder media was such a such a large company. I mean, to me, that's a large company. That's probably a small company, you know, in the whole scheme of things, right? Yeah. But man, what an accomplishment. Who would have thought, right? Yeah, thank you. So so kind of dive into exactly what you do to help agents automate and stay in touch and things of that nature. Like what what's your, you know, what's the game plan when an agent comes in? How do you help them get to that place of freedom? Yep. So there is over the last two decades of doing this and really being able to work not only in real estate, what's been interesting about our business is we've now worked in over 140 different industries. So you've got car dealers, accountants, lawyers, you've got people like photographers, interior designers. Why do I mention that? I mention it because it's given us a viewpoint on the consumer in marketing to understand, OK, what do you need to do in marketing to make sure that the consumer feels like they have a connection with you? They don't forget who you are and they don't go use your competitor. And really, we've boiled down two decades worth of experience, 100 plus thousand clients, 140 different industries into an acronym that we believe if you apply this acronym to your marketing, you will have tremendous results. And the acronym, I know they're corny, but they're easy to remember. It's called FIT. F-I-T. So if your marketing is out of shape in 2021, you want to get it fit, you got to apply this to your marketing. And I would challenge each of you to look at your own business and go, does my marketing accomplish this? The F stands for frequency. And frequency is not just about the amount of times you're in front of somebody, right, because you need to be in front of people often for them to remember you. But frequency is also about the channel of communication. So you know how radio stations have different frequency levels, right? You have Ricky likes maybe rock music, Juan, maybe you like a country, right? I don't know if you like country or not. I like country, right? You want to make sure clients don't want to be communicated the way you like to be communicated to. They want to be communicated the way they like to communicate. So you need to be frequently in front of your clients, but you also want to communicate on the frequency level that they're on. So maybe that's YouTube videos, maybe that's email, maybe that's tax, maybe that's print marketing, maybe that's a phone call, figure out the frequency. The I in fit stands for impact. And this is where reminder media shines. Most of us, when we market in business, especially real estate agents, sorry to call you guys out, we tend to put on our marketing hat and we go, look at me, I'm in real estate. Here's my just listed. Here's my just sold. Here's my accolades. And we don't realize that, yes, we're frequently out in front of people, but it's all about us. It's me, me, me, me, me. So one of our flagship products here at reminder media is actually a magazine. And the magazine has really nothing to do with about your market reports and stuff like that. It's not just a big pamphlet about you. It's truly just a piece of content that's valuable that you can send as a gift to your database of travel articles. There may be DIY tips in their recipes or and then we brand it to you. And the reason why this is so critical is because when you see me kind of like how to cook shrimp at 2 Fay and the best color to paint your walls in the fall and she's recipe and 10 buyer tips, 10 buyer tips to win offers in this crazy high multiple market. It's an insane market. So I'll hold one up. I don't know if you guys just do it in audio or if you do it in visual format too for the podcast. But this is one of our magazines. We actually have three different ones. All full of just valuable content. But even if you don't use our magazines, right? Here's the thing you got to understand about your marketing from the impact standpoint. There's two ways to have impact in your marketing. One is through quality. If you send something of quality to somebody, if I sent you guys I don't know if you drink wine or if you're into whiskey or what you're into. But if I sent you a nice gift, you would immediately want to reciprocate that. It's called the norm of reciprocity, right? If I do something nice for you, you're going to want to do it back for me. So if I send something of quality to you, something of value to you, you're going to actually see me in a good light. The other way that you can give impact is you can give impact through personalization. So here's the real key to marketing. And this is what Facebook and Google have figured out, which is why they make billions in ads. They have your data and they know exactly what you are personally into. They know exactly how to make marketing relevant to you, so you pay attention. The more personal you can get in your marketing, the more relevant the messaging is, the more Ricky will actually pay attention, the more you can actually direct Ricky's attention to what you want him to do. So what are we doing in our magazine? Well, we give you the ability to make it personal. So like my wife, Megan, and I just had our first kid, a little girl named Evelyn. So I'm ecstatic about this girl, right? But if you're my real estate agent, you know that. You could write me a personal letter on the inside cover of just my magazine, saying, dear Luke and Megan, congrats on a little Evelyn being bored. You know, this is the best experience you'll go through. Whatever you want to write, that goes in the magazine just delivered to Megan and I, right? There's other things you can do with our products to make it really personal and irrelevant. But the idea here is that if I can get personal in my marketing, it's going to be more impactful. And if it's more impactful, it's going to be more memorable. And that's going to ultimately trigger the normal reciprocity. And let me wrap up the key here. The last letter in this fit acronym, so you got frequency, impact, and then trust. So if you're just frequent, if I'm just frequent with you, Ricky, if I'm just impactful with you, you and I might become best friends, but it doesn't mean you're actually going to use me as a real estate agent. And I don't know about you. I don't need a ton of best friends, right? You ultimately want people also to want to do business with you. You have to become the business of trust. How do you tactically do that in marketing? I think there's three easy ways you can build trust in marketing. One is showcase your accolades. So we did this, you guys just asked me for my story, right? You asked me for my revenue numbers, maybe how many clients I work with. All those things, if I go, I'm Luke the marketer and I have a marketing company, that's great. But a lot of people can say that. If I say we've been at it for two decades, that builds credibility. If I say, hey, not only that, my company's been on the ink 5,000 four times, right? That builds credibility. If I say I've worked with 100,000 clients, little accolades will naturally increase your trust in me as a marketer and what I've accomplished. Now you got to be careful with accolades because the problem with accolades is it can come across as arrogant or it can come across, it needs to be a humble brag, not just bragging. And ultimately, you guys care what I say, but you care more what my client says. And that's really the second way you can build trust is showcase your accolades, but showcase what your clients say about you. So reviews, are you getting reviews on Google? Are you getting reviews? So you can showcase those to your clients on social to share what your clients say about you. And then third, I think you'll really love this because this is what you guys are doing even right now. And I follow you both on social and your masters at this. It's you can build trust through content and education. By giving away free value, educational content, you will naturally become the SME, the subject matter expert in the minds of your clients. So my podcast, both of you guys have been interviewed on my podcast, Stay Paid, right? Why do I put out Stay Paid? Think about it. I put out this podcast, Stay Paid. My ultimate reason is because of my vision. I want to help people live a life of freedom and I know this is a piece that will help them do that. But what does it give me? It's frequent, it comes out every week. It's impactful, it's free information that's relevant to you and your, if you're trying to grow a business, but it also brands me as an authority in marketing. And the more and more people watch my Stay Paid podcast, the more and more it elevates that, well, Luke knows what he's talking about in marketing. And I naturally get this from just one medium of content that I'm putting out. So with our magazine, what we do for agents, well, not only is it frequent, it comes out every two months, right, to your database. It's impactful because you can personalize it, you can do things on it that's more about the consumer than it is about your business, but you also have the ability to build trust. You can showcase your listings, you're just solds, your testimonials, market reports. You can showcase things in here that elevate you as the authority on what you're doing. So a lot there, and I'll shut up and we'll go to the next point, but if you really wanna have success in your marketing, make sure it's frequent, and make sure you're on every medium, video, email, text, phone call, face to face, you wanna communicate the way your clients wanna communicate, make sure it's impactful, it's not just information about you, it's giving information, it's valuable information, and make sure it also brands you as the business of trust. It brands you as the authority on your subject matter that there's no one else that knows more about marketing than Luke Acre. There's no more else that knows more about real estate than Ricky, that type of idea. Luke, I wanna thank you, because any single time a real estate agent asked me about marketing moving forward, I'm just gonna say refer back to the Road to Ten podcast with Luke Acre on it. He's been walking through the whole thing. No, but it's really cool because you just broke down the psychology of how the consumer thinks and what needs to happen from start to finish for them to actually go ahead and send you a referral, which is really what we all want at the end of the day. So I've never had someone break down step for step and the fact that your product kind of utilizes that system of doing all of those three things for them, you're giving the agent leverage so that they could focus on building the relationship from day one, which is awesome. Amen, thank you, man, I appreciate that. Yeah, and we've translated that to, obviously I was holding up the print, we have digital magazine, we have social media content, we have email marketing, you can send the stuff through text message. So all that frequency that I talked about, right? You wanna be on every communication channel. That's what I was gonna ask. So when they buy a package with you, a marketing package, you're marketing for them on all the platforms, you're hitting them on social, digital, imprint, everything under the sun. Yeah, that's the concept. Now, obviously as a client, you can choose a la carte what you want or you can do a whole bundle where you have our digital bundle, our print stuff going out. The concept is we can do up to 66 touch points for your database for you a year. High valuable, impactful content, frequently distributed branding you as the business of trust. Nice, nice. Well, man, that's a, man, you took us on a little journey here so far. I appreciate that, man. Hopefully a good journey. Yeah, no, it was, man. I think it's gonna bring a lot of value to the audience. You know, if somebody wanted to sign up for this or to reach out to you or to find out what these packages are, everything, all the details of what you offer, where do they find that? So you can go to remindermedia.com and learn about all of our products, all of our services. If you want a special deal, because I can't help myself, I'm a marketer, go to remindermedia.com slash road to 10,000 and you'll get a special deal there. We normally have a $300 set up fee. We will reduce that down for you. We'll take 67% off and we'll throw in 15 free magazines on your first order if you want to do that. So just as a way for us to, you know, say thank you to everybody who's listening here. So remindermedia.com slash road to 10,000. Is that, is that spelled out road and then TO and then 1-0-0-0-0 or okay. Road to 10,000. And if you guys have shown a show notes and everything, I'll get you the links for that as well. Perfect. No, absolutely, man. Absolutely. Anything else you want to add, man? Like, like for example, you know, the current, I mean, you, so you deal with not only real estate agents, right? Or do you only focus on real estate agents? No, we deal with tons of different industries. So a major three would be insurance, real estate and finance, but we have small businesses across the nation that we, that's incredible. So all the real, would you say the real estate niche is your biggest niche out of all those? Absolutely. It's where we got our starts, where my heart is. I love real estate. Now, were you ever a real estate agent? I wasn't, but my brother is a real estate agent down in Virginia. So he's a mega producer down there. And then I do a ton of real estate investing. So- So your brother is an agent right now in Virginia? Yeah, he's an agent right now. He's in Virginia. His name's Steven Acre. You guys should connect with him. What company is he with? He's with Keller Williams. Oh, nice, nice. I hope he uses your product, man. He does, man. He's a big advocate. Actually, his story, and I only share this because I think it's impactful. So four years ago, about four and a half now. So he was at a crossroads in his life. He was making about $28,000 a year. Unhappy in a call center, calling for a financial aid office. Him and I obviously were brothers, so we're best friends type idea. And I'm talking to him when I need, just like I'm unhappy. I think I might get in the real estate. And just like where I was at in my life is I know Reminder Media works, right? And I have faith in it. I have to, we have thousands of clients testimonials. But I had reached a point four and a half years ago, man, where I was at a crossroads because everybody's telling me, hey, Prince dead, what are you doing? And I'm thinking is what I'm doing today still working? Can I actually get on phone calls and webinars and actually share with conviction that I know this works? So to me, it felt like the stars are the line. I said, Hey, Steven, man, jump in the real estate. I'm not going to support you. You got to support yourself, but do exactly what we coach. I eat this fit framework, what we do exactly what we coach. His first year in business, he did 35 transactions. His second year, he did 78. His third year, he did 100. His fourth year, which was last year. And now he's added team members to his team. He did 195. This year, his goal is 365 transactions. I talked to him three days ago. He's had 105 this year. And I share that, right? One is I feel very proud about it. You guys can tell, right? Just so I think, and I believe beyond a shadow of doubt, what we do works, but regardless of if you use reminder media or not, you have to apply this framework to your business and your marketing because that's the key whether you use us. There's tons of great marketing companies out there, but are they frequent? Are they impactful? And are they helping you build trust? And if they're not, you need to make sure that's happening in your business. What do you think about the chatter out there with agents getting worried about Zillow taking over and stuff like that? You know, here's my thought process on it. I think Zillow is going to squeeze the market. I really do. I think in any market, the low-end mediocre producers are going to get squeezed out. Really? And that might be from top producers. That might be from technology, but it happens in every industry. If you're resting on your laurels, if you're like, and I'm talking about, you know, like there's more real estate agents right now, I think, than there even are listings active, right? I think that's a good thing. But you got to think about that statement though. You got to think about that statement, man. There's more active listings today, right? What's the average days on the market right now? One day? Things are selling for more than a full price. Okay, so like tomorrow, there's another one point, something million. The next day, there's another batch of one point, something million. But here my point, my point was not to, it's not to downgrade that, oh, there's not opportunity. There is massive opportunity, but there's not opportunity for people who treat this as just a hobby, as people that are not professional, right? So I think in any industry, the unprofessionals are going to get squeezed out. But that's always been the case though, right? Exactly. So what's going to be different? What's going to be different moving forward? I don't fear Zillow et al, the eye-buying stuff that's happening. All that stuff, real estate is not going away. That's my firm belief. I believe the mediocre producers, they're going to get squeezed out by... Hell though, that's what I'm saying though. How and why? Because they're already only doing seven transactions a year, maybe on average, right? Think about it this way. So iBuyers is going to take a little bit of the market. Not a ton, but a slight... But the iBuyers, but you got to think about it though. iBuyers are only buying, they're offering like way lower than market value. I mean, you know, I mean like, who works with mediocre agents? The same type of consumer that is ultimately going to not... They don't see value in agents, right? Because they're already using an agent that's not the best. And so they're going to be fine with going to the platform. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. My only argument is, and I love to argue on here just so you know. No, I think it makes for a great show. My only argument is, is that those people using mediocre agents, how do we know they don't think those mediocre agents are great agents? And B, they're still asking fair market value. I mean, just because they choose a mediocre agent doesn't mean that they want to take 30% less than what their property's worth. Are you saying that from the perspective of like, your belief is that iBuyers and Zillows will not exist because... No, I think they'll exist. I think they'll exist. I just... My thought is that nothing changes. You're still going to have mediocre agents doing seven deals a year. I don't see what's going to squeeze them out. You know what I mean? I was just wondering what you actually thought. See, I really... I'm glad that you have some thoughts on this because some people are just like, oh, it's not going to happen and don't say anything. But it's really cool because I ask as many people as I can that actually have an opinion on this, give me the game plan. I want to see people hit me up in Instagram like, are you worried about this? Are real estate agents going to be obsolete? Give me the A to B, right? A, B, and now, and B, you know, real estate agents are obsolete or something is squeezed. Give me the game plan. Tell me how this is going to happen. How do you see this thing playing out? And nobody can tell me A to B how this thing is going to squeeze us. Sam Walton said the ultimate boss is who? The ultimate boss is the... Consumers. Right? Yeah, exactly. Like the chairman can get fired, the CEO can get fired, the whole company can get fired because the ultimate boss is the consumer. So what I look to is, I don't care what Zillow's doing, right? I don't care what the agent is doing. I care what is the consumer one? What is it? Because that's going to be the ultimate driver. So my ultimate point is going, I don't fear that Zillow's going to make real estate agents obsolete. I don't fear the I buyers are going to make real estate agents obsolete. I fear that the service is going to ultimately dictate who gets obsolete and who doesn't. So if you're a real estate agent right now, you're in the advantage position because when it comes down to it, in my opinion is whoever can create the best client experience, i.e. and I think you'll have camaraderie with this, whoever can solidify the best relationship with the consumer is the one who's going to ultimately win. So if you are in a transactional game and let's use financial services as a counter example to real estate. If you're just about investing and you're just about stocks and you're just about the 401k, when the market turns, you can be replaced by an app. It's just true. I can go and invest my money myself with an app. But if you have a relationship with me, if I can trust in you because you're giving me a, like a feeling of safety, a feeling of confidence, but you're also giving me a service level that I can't get at an app, I'm not leaving you. And so if you're a real estate agent, my main push to you would be, look at your service and go, how do I become the best client experience possible for my clients? And it starts with the relationship and here's the point I would give to you guys that really, really was educational to me when Jay Baer shared this with me. He goes, look, in order to create raving fans, you have to do the unexpected. No one walks into a room and flips on a light switch and freaks out cause the lights came on. They expect it. Meaning you go into a room, you flip on a light switch, everybody expects the lights to come on. You don't rave about it, you don't go write a review. If you get someone and they, you sell their house, they're not gonna rave about that cause they expect it. They're hiring you to sell the house. They're hiring you to help buy house. What are you doing that's unexpected? How are you going the extra mile? I guarantee you, if I dived into you guys' business, you're superstars because you go above and beyond and the relationships you form with your people and the way you handle them is so above what they actually expected that they turn into raving fans for your business. So if I was in real estate, I would be looking for a way to look at my whole process from lead generation to client advocacy in every step in between and going, how do I do the unexpected? How do I actually turn this person into a raving fan by over-delivering versus what a consumer expects? And Luke, it's really cool you bring that up cause out of everything we do, the thing that gets the best feedback is the annual gift we send them on their anniversary, just letting them know, hey, we're thinking about you. And they call us, some of them are even like, at the point of crying, the fact that we reached out to them, one year down the line. So I completely agree with you there. Yeah, it's amazing. 100%, 100%. I mean, here's the punchline for me, and 90% of agents don't make it, right? Is that the stat? I think it's 87% in five years, 90% of that happens within two years, I think. Right, right. So you think that that failure rate will go up over time? I don't think so. I think- Exactly. I think that's an average. We have a winner. We have a winner, bro. Then nothing's gonna change. Nothing's gonna change, man. Nobody's getting squeezed out here. This isn't the mafia. Like, we're good. I would say bad performers will get squeezed out, but guess what? They've always been squeezed out. That's what I'm saying. Nothing's gonna change. Like, if you can't bring value and you can't give a great experience to your- But you're adjusting, right? You're adjusting. What I mean by adjusting is, you're constantly looking for new technologies that make your client experience better, new ways of doing things. That's what a great business owner does. That's what a great- That's what you're a professional. So many people drop the professional in their title. They go, I'm a real estate agent. I'm a professional real estate agent. Well, professionals, guess what? They show up and show up every single day. They practice every single day. They look to get better every single day. You're a professional. Where are you located? I'm outside of Philadelphia. So, you want to do an event? Absolutely, man. What are we talking about here? Let's do like a 502,000-agent event in Philadelphia at the end of the year. I love it. So we'll get you, we'll get some other people. We could probably do a great event, man. Dude, I'll come up there and just crush it for you. Like, I mean, we could do free to the agents. Come up there, get some sponsors. Just put it on. Get 500 agents or more in a room. Dude, don't hold off that, man. And just blow it up, man. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, let's put it together, man. Let's kind of start thinking about it over the next couple of months. And we'll bring you back on the podcast. I'm writing that down. Yeah, let's get it together. And yeah, it was a good conversation, man. We'll bring you back sometime and we can continue this. And then, Luke, how can people find you? What's your Instagram? Yep, Instagram is at LukeAcri, so it's Acre with an extra E. So, at LukeAcri, you can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram. You can find me on Facebook, at LukeAcriRM, stands for Reminder Media. But love to connect with all of you on there. 100%, man, 100%. You guys can always catch me on Instagram. I'm still answering all my DMs there. Also, Juan Carlos, he's a Latino agent. And definitely give us a five-star review if you enjoyed this podcast. And go check out Luke's podcast, Stay Paid, all right? We'll talk to you guys on the next episode. Let's go.