 So it's a real honor to be with you tonight. So the agenda that I'm proposing for tonight, based on my discussion with Barbara, so I will brief you about who I am, where I'm coming from. And then after that, I will discuss about from giving to a strategic partnership and what are the future perspective for sustainability in the business sector, mainly focusing on the mining sector. And I understand, I've read the articles that you've been reading as well on the globe about this CEDA funding CSR activities with the mining sector. I was, I must admit that one of the first one that is mentioned in the article, I cooked that one. I negotiated that one with CEDA at that time. It took five years to get CEDA to find a cross sector or collaboration. So I have my views on it. And please, I hope you have no tomatoes. Don't throw any tomatoes at me tonight because I'm sure I'm gonna be challenged and we will have divergence of opinion on a few issues tonight. And I will give you about example of our, from London mining where I'm working right now about our vision and implementation of principles regarding sustainability. And what are the key challenges and what are your role as professional or activists? I've heard that, I will try to, I see that there's a broad range of interest in the room tonight. We'll see if I can cater to all of these, but that's the challenge. Anyway, the first thing that I would like to ask you is some of you have worked in the private sector, some of you have worked in the not-for-profit sector. So why are you interested in cross sector collaboration? Why do you think it's important? Why are you interested? Is it important or it's not important? Should all the sectors stay on their side, government one side, the private sector on their side, the NGO over there and just bang at each other all the time as we've been doing for many years? I don't know, I'm just asking. I'm just curious to hear some of your thoughts on it. So coming back to the next point, what are your doubts or misgiving about cross sector collaboration? I would like to set the table before entering in my presentation is that some of you are interested in global health, renewable energy, sustainability, et cetera. Living in a sustainable world, the challenges that we're facing as society or globally today is a multi-dimensional challenges. It's not one strict area, it's a multi-dimensional. I believe personally that no sector has all the skills to deal with the multi-challenges that we're facing as a society. The climate change, global health, disease, name it, it's a multi-dimensional challenges that we're facing here. So if you look at multi-dimensional challenges, who is best placed to tackle multi-dimensional challenges? Is it one sector or cross sector collaboration? Redefining success, this is a quotation from 203, which I think is still very relevant in the world that we're living today. So in today's stress-starved climate, our market-driven system is under attack. We know that, it's been criticized very much. Do the large part of the population feel that business has become detached from society? That business interests are no longer aligned with societal interests. The only way to stop this new wave of anti-business sentiment is for business to take the lead and to reposition itself clearly and convincingly as part of society. So let's be clear. This is coming from the World Economic Forum, or Schwab, who is the president at that time, he's still the president right now. So for me, we are in 213. It's 10 years after the speech delivered at that time in Davis by Klaus, it's still very relevant. Hasn't changed, we're still in the same space. So let's look now at the private sector and where the private sector is coming from. And I will talk mainly from a mining sector company, but you can make a lot of parallel with other private sector company as well. What are the old paradigms? Companies, traditionally, when you look 10 years back, are very patternistic in their approach. We know what's best. When I worked on this joint venture between Alkan and this Indian company, I remember we were having a multi-stakeholder workshop with Amnesty International, Rights and Democracy, very, very strong advocacy NGO in the room with, I was facilitating the workshop and the Indian counterpart was there because the shareholder had requested a third party evaluation of the project in India. And meeting was going very well, the CEO of Alkan was there, everybody was starting to feel that there was something happening positively. And suddenly the gentleman from India said, the people that we're working with in India are all poor, they don't know what's best for them, we know what's best for them. And then you saw the Canadian NGO, they all, their eyes started to roll and destroy the whole of the social capital that had been built for four hours in the room. I was just wanted to go under the table, you know? And I talked to them and I said, why did you say something like this? You don't say things like that, you know? Not in public, in front of international NGOs, this is exactly why they're attacking us, the private sector, because they don't feel that we are respecting the local communities or listening to what they think should be best for them. So, coming back to this approach of patternistic paradigms, it's one way that the private sector goes in, you know? It's the philosophy of engaging or making donation is discretionary given. It's a corporate obligation, it's seen as a corporate obligation. It's the decision making is the CEO or the spouse. You must have heard that if you've worked in the private sector, the spouse of the CEO or the husband of the CEO, because we have now female CEO, we'll have a pet project. We'll say darling, you know, there is this cause over there, this shelter for women in Ottawa, downtown. Can we make a small contribution here, you know? Write the check, go leave my love and go give the check over there. Board member will come with their pet project as well. It's like, let's fund this activity on the other activity. And department of good deeds, you know? So it becomes a philanthropic department that gives checks all over the place, please. So it's conformity, it's goodwill. It's the reach of it is very local because you want to have a good local registration where you're working as a company. The impact is minimal and it's not measured because you write a check and say goodbye and do what you have to do. The relationship management is one way, armed lands, bureaucratic, very paternalistic. And it's nexus with core competencies, it's peripheral. So in the private sector, when you are looking at a company and coming back to cross sectorial collaboration, NGOs should be looking if they are engaging with a company if how they engage is it fully embedded into their business practice or it's just peripheral? If they have a department, they have one single person like me sometimes that is fighting all the time against all the executive in the company and all the managers on site to get them to understand that we should change the way we do business, I would not engage with a company like that. If it's not felt deeply inside that they are values to do it differently, I would not engage on a cross sectorial collaboration. So now what are the new paradigms partnership? It's a new business discipline. So you will understand now there is a lot of, I'm the vice president of sustainability for land and mining. You will go in many private sector companies, you will find a lot of people in that position. It is a societal opportunity. It's for us come to the private sector to position ourselves and demonstrate to society that we care and we are part of society as well. Decision making, line business manager, stakeholders because you engage with stakeholders. It's not my decision, it's based on what is the materiality assessment that stakeholders have expressed. What are the concerns of stakeholder about the business that we have? So you should engage on their concern. And this is normally the diagram when you look at stakeholder concerns and business opportunities, they convert all the time. So focus on what is critical and important to the stakeholder and you'll be successful. And it becomes a core strategy competence. The purpose for that, it's differentiation, result and reputation. We are in a world of large competence. There's a lot of competencies in the globally these days. And of course, we are competing to have access to resources all the time. So I have been in countries where ministers will ask, I have given concession to mining companies from other countries. Now there are six that are interested in this concession. What are you going to do differently here so that the people from the local communities are gonna be benefiting from your presence? So it is becoming a differentiation. So if I am able to present to him my visiting card to demonstrate how I do business, how did I close a site? How did I ensure that I had to ensure maximum socioeconomic benefit where I have a mine of rating and I'm able to articulate that and present that? Then the minister will say, this is a company that I would like to have in my country. Okay? Then the impact can be very potentially high, leverage and measure because of course you have to measure what you do. These types of contributions, how you work with the local stakeholder, you should measure it and report on it. And eventually when you report on it, you have to have an external auditor to report on what you are publishing externally. This is where it's critical. So again, if we're talking about cross-sectoral collaboration, companies needs to be transparent and disclose information. If you are looking at cross-sectoral collaboration with a company that does not disclose information, I would question why you should engage with a company or unless a company will have made some commitment to get there, that's critical. Now the relationship is strategic partnership, it's entrepreneurial, it's mutual learning. If it's cross-sectoral collaboration, it cannot be paternalistic. It has to be an open dialogue and engagement where we learn from each other all the time. And as I said earlier, it's linked to core business. So it's not just peripheral to the business. So what's strategic shift you're gonna be facing in the private sector these days? So traditionally, and this exists in the mining sector and many other companies, you will have the company in the center of the relationship. And then you have all the stakeholders that are coming to you. Especially when you are in an emerging country or a developing country, local population have a tendency to look at the private sector to substitute the role of the government. Because private sector companies are moving fast. Government of bureaucratic takes time to make decisions. They have no resources. And you see these companies that are moving all the time. So they come there. So the company, London Mining or Alcan or Rio Tinto, they become the patron and they decide everything. And they are the center of the relationship. It's not sustainable. Now what is becoming key now in this sort of strategic shift is that in order to be able to work properly with the local stakeholders or the local community, you have, we have the private sector needs to understand clearly what are the developmental plan and the local priorities. Right now in Sierra Leone where we have a mine which is in operation, which is in operation. Are people working in the CR department, the community relations department? I can tell you, they have a very good understanding of what is the district midterm development plan? What is the national development plan? What is the poverty reduction strategy in Sierra Leone? So how our business, how do we converge with some of these priorities that they are having which will impact our business? And how can we contribute to that? Instead of working in silos and not engaging on these platform where they are certain, I would say, level of consultation or agreement locally and at the national level, the private sector needs to engage on these platforms. And this is where cross sector collaboration can happen because you're talking the same language and you're looking at common framework to work together. So you become a co-facilitator, a co-initiator, a co-supporter. But the private sector should not be in the seat of the driver. It should be in the seat of the passenger. Because if the private sector company is on the seat of the driver, it is not sustainable. The company, the company, especially in the mining sector, will move on. The deposit will be replenished, they'll close the mine, they'll move on. You may also be in a manufacturing sector, plants close, they build, they close. They have the experience everywhere, especially right now in Eastern Canada, in Ontario and Quebec, where the manufacturing sector is in such a bad state, the industry is closing up on a daily basis. So what happened with the communities that have a large manufacturing industry that are closing down? So if the company was the patron for the past 30 years, it shuts down community of 10,000 people, suddenly with 600 employees, shut down, what happened? It died. Again, it's the same thing. What were the priorities? What was the vision of that community? Planning when this company will eventually move on. So when you look at that, what's the implementation framework that you should be looking when you're talking about cross-sectorial collaboration? It's very critical that we have, I don't know if some of you have heard about the UN Global Compact. Are you familiar with the UN Global Compact? It's a commitment by the private sector to fulfill some principles to be responsible when they implement project and they have to report every two years on certain indicators, principles that they have to report on. So again, if you're looking at cross-sectorial collaborations, there are a lot of voluntary framework that are existing that you should do your diligence of engaging with the private sector to find out have they signed on the Global Compact? If they've not asked questions, why haven't they signed on the Global Compact? Is it because you don't meet anything? Have you signed on the voluntary principle on security and human rights? Are you implementing them? Have you signed on the ETI, the International Extractive Transparency Initiative? Because companies are supporting. So you have to do the diligence. And the company also has to do its due diligence on the potential NGO with whom it needs to work. It has to be both sides. And if the NGO wants to engage with a company, my advice to the NGOs is like, ask the company to do a due diligence on you using their framework for doing due diligence. Then after that, if people are being asked a question, why are you working together? But you can see openly, we've done a due diligence and we find out that we have similar points of interest, convergence, similar vision, similar ethics. We have good finance. We have a good corporate governance structure. Compare things that are similar, but then you can express that commonly. The debate in Canada right now with CEDA providing funding to NGOs working with the private sector, I find it appalling because they communicate so badly why this is done. Most people think the money is going into the cover of the private sector company, which is not the case. It's going with the NGO. The company has nothing to do on how the money is being spent. The one that I've worked on with WUSC, I'm negotiating another one now. I'm currently negotiating one Finnish negotiation with the German government on skill and vocational training in Sierra Leone. The money goes into a separate bank account. They're managing it, not us. We are leveraging each other and bringing complementary competency. So when you look at that, so we know we have this global framework that is existing. You've heard of the Millennium Development Goal, which will be 2015 now. The debate will start on how this is going to be updated. So then you have countries commitment, 179 countries. Then how do we, London mining, use this as a communication strategy? It's like we support the MDGs and we work in Sierra Leone or in Colombia or other countries where we are working to support through our investment and also through our community investment, the government by paying taxes and community investment to help the government to achieve the MDGs. Then you have the Paris Declaration, which is the whole issue of having a common approach between the donor, basket funding. You've heard of the basket funding right now, so before we have all the countries that put their flags on with their support, the countries are trying to collaborate more than before. And then you have the country poverty reduction strategy, which is at the local level. How do we understand that? How do we contribute to the poverty reduction strategy of Sierra Leone? So when you look at that, and then you have the local development plan that I mentioned earlier, where you are. So it's critical that you have a very good understanding of that. And then we do understand that we have our own objective. Our governing objective is maximizing value for all stakeholders, not strictly shareholders. So again, it's important when you do your due diligence and companies to find out what's the motto, what's their trademark. When I moved to London Mining, one other thing that I looked at it was maximizing value for all stakeholders. When I was with Arkham, we have the same motto. When Rio came, Rio came, maximizing value for shareholder. Interesting. Big difference. I was challenged and I have questions. I started to be a troublemaker inside Rio. I said, I don't like, this is very hard to go and talk to external groups to say that my motivation, my objective is strictly to maximize value for shareholders. If we want to be part of society, we have to demonstrate that we want to maximize value for all shareholder, all stakeholders, sorry. So then we have our own objective. So how do you have this multi-stakeholder engagement and you leverage each other's competency to make a contribution to the local development plan? Now, I'll give you a very concrete example. You've heard of Sierra Leone. Sierra Leone had a civil bloody war, the diamond war. I'm sure most of you have seen Blood Diamond, the Blood Diamond movie. It's a country which has gone through a really, really difficult time. Lots of violence, et cetera. So you have a full generation that did not go to school. So the labor pool, the skill available in Sierra Leone is minimal. So you have a private sector company like us investing in the mining sector. We've invested so far $350 million in a country which was quite unstable. No skill at all, no labor to be able to work at. Huge risk, huge risk to move in. So then you look at the poverty reduction strategy, they're trying to increase local employment. Now, to operate our mindset in Sierra Leone, we need to import a lot of expatriate because the local manpower is not available. I'm sure you will do quickly the math of it. If I hire a Sierra Leone locally, the cost of having somebody local versus bringing somebody from Canada or South Africa or Australia, it's not the same. What makes sense for us as a business is to invest in skill and vocational training to replace, I would say, between bracket the expensive expatriate that are working on our site. It makes sense for business and it makes sense also at the local level because the local communities are gonna be having access to local employment. So it's a win-win situation. That's what I say all the time to people. When you look at the private sector, and I'm trying to debate or defend the budget that I'm asking, I said, I'm tired of listening to people telling me that this is an expense. It is not an expense, an investment. If you see it as an expense, it's philanthropy. It's not in my budget. What I'm proposing here is sustainable. It has to be a win-win situation and it has to be a win-win situation, a winning for the local community and it has to be winning also for the company. If it's only winning for one site, it's not sustainable. So let's be strategic. Coming back to the graph that I showed you before, you have to be strategic in these types of cross-sectoral collaboration. So when you leverage each other, if you're very strategic, you create that win-win situation, everybody wins. I don't want you to leave an incorrect impression. When you talk about then wanting to help invest in local education, in the old paradigm, what used to happen, whether we're talking about mining communities in Canada or in Mozambique, is that the company would come in and build a school, right? Or the company would offer short-term training. And I don't think that's the model that you're talking about. Do you want to go back to your earlier wheel? Yeah. So the model here is that before, you know, like what I said before, is that you are become one of the stakeholders around the issue. If we're talking about skill and vocational training, who is accountable and who has the responsibility for skill and vocational training in Sierra Leone or in Columbia? It's not us, it's the government. So the first thing you have to do is to engage with the government. And look who else is working on these issues, the donor, local engineers, and try to engage with people that are interested to work together. And then you become a co-facilitator. You bring these stakeholders together with this cut, and then you put a program forward. We will contribute some, but our responsibility as a mining company is not to train all the Sierra Leone. That's the government responsibility. You pay taxes to the government, they should use their resources to do that. But meanwhile, we're very conscious and cognizant that they don't have enough resource to do that, so let's do it together. And it becomes much more sustainable on a long-term basis by the fact that it's not us who's driving the endeavor. It is a joint effort, which is managed jointly. But again, as I said before, we are in the passenger seat. So it's that cross-sector collaboration, but it's not just cross-sector collaboration because we work with the government as well, so it's just not the private and the not-for-profit sector. It's a matter of connecting the duct and bringing who are the key stakeholders or actors around that area and work together. Another area, for example, I gave you, which is critical to us, is malaria. Malaria is endemic in Sierra Leone. Right now, treatment-wise, on a yearly basis, it's costing us $120,000. You add absenteeism of local staff being sick. Children of local staff being sick. They have to miss work. They have to go to the hospital. So if we manage to eradicate or reduce the incidence of malaria around our mind site, it's a win-win situation for the local communities and for us because we reduce absenteeism. We reduce sickness among our staff. So, however, London mining can not eradicate malaria for the whole of Sierra Leone because the mosquito, they fly. We may spray the mind site on a regular basis, but the mosquito, they have no boundaries. So if we don't work at the district level or at the national level, whoa, the investment that we will do on our little site has no impact. So based on what I said, what makes sense is to engage with the district authority, the district of the health ministry at the national level, how can we contribute to have a much broader, in-depth malaria eradication program? Mosaic, BHP Billiton did that in Mozambique. They reduced the incidence of malaria after two years by 45%. You benefit. Didn't cost you the amount of money, but it's a matter of presenting it. When I present these things to our people, to my VP finance, this is the investment and this is the return. It is not an expenditure because we will be saving on absenteeism, yes, treatment, that, that, okay? So this is the kind of thing you have to do. Very critical that when you work with the private sector, especially NGOs engaging with the private sector, that you understand the language that they speak. So if you are trying to do cross-sectoral collaboration, you need to understand the language. The challenge that I had when I moved to Alcant, it was to speak that language. When I used to go to meetings with the ex-goal, we thought, what is he talking about? This fluffy language of like, NGO, if we have to think, we have to come talk to everybody, you know, the private sector, right? Whoa, this is not how we speak. If you want to really engage with us, speak our language. So that's another challenge also for cross-sectoral collaboration. And when we did the due diligence on the first PPP with SIDA funding with WISC, and I pushed our people from the finance department to go and meet with WISC to do the due diligence. And when they came back, they said, oh my God, we're very impressed. We met people that were wearing suits and they had accounting system, very similar and even more sophisticated at heart. So you see, there is so much misconceptions on both sides, on how we perceive the NGOs, the private sector and vice versa on how we perceive the NGO perceived the private sector. And I had people coming to us, meaning NGO sector coming to our group and they're like, oh my God. Engagement, defeating the mining curse. The shift engagement practice from an area, as I said before, organizational center, approach to an issue center. What are these issues that are of interest to both parties and focus on that? Integrating into local planning, I mentioned that before. A lot of the companies, they will go in in the old days and say, oh, they need a school, they build a school, they did not consult with the minister of education. Very nice school built there, no teachers. And then the fact that the government was not involved, the window breaks, whatever. Today I received an email message from Segalian and from a group that I don't know, I think we've sponsored and this is, we've built these toilets in Waterloo. And I wrote back and I said, can I have some explanation about who is gonna be maintaining and cleaning these toilets after they've been built? You tell me it's a very stupid question, but I have been in a place, in Ghana, where we had been latrine, 20 years ago. And now they were full of shit. And the local community were saying like, you build them, you clean them. Because they were not involved in building these toilets and there were no agreement on who will maintain them. So this was the old days. Identify area of overlapping interests, strategic, operational, social as well. Build consensus on engagement design, implementation, assessment between organization and stakeholder, very critical. How do you engage on these issues on building consensus? This is about engaging in mutually beneficial partnership. It has to be beneficial both sides. I said it has to be a win-win situation. This is not about philanthropy, it's about ensuring long-term sustainability of the business and this includes the fight. You cannot exclude. And I said to Barbara before I came to the meeting, today I had lunch at CEDA and I was saying, you know, like, I am tired, the private sector will remain there. The mining industry will remain there. You have two choices. You deal with it, you engage with them or you protest against them. Now, what I have said to the civil society team many times, I said, one other thing that you have to do better is to do diligence on the company that you are trying to engage or you're trying to attack. And instead of putting all the, treat all the companies as rotten apple, why don't you pick one or two that are doing a good job and promote them? If you want to have an impact on the mining sector, praise the one that are doing a good job and you will see the peer coming along the line. But right now, the problem that we're facing, I can tell you, I'm facing this every day and where I work. Why would I do this? Look, the NGOs are criticizing us all the time. Anyway, they said that the mining sector is a bad sector. There is no acknowledgement. So there is no impetus internally to do things properly. So when I'm debating for budget or contribution, the fact that we're being attacked all the time by NGOs that are not able to acknowledge good practices, the good effort that has been made to change things, it defeats the purpose. So what's the future perspective for sustainability in the business sector? Co-creating a new business model, I believe firmly in co-creating this new business model. The lines are very blurred, sometimes Pauline said it before, you have to be very cautious. You have to stick to your identity. We are not an NGO and nobody should think a company will become an NGO and vice versa, a company will not become a private sector to generate profit. The motivation are different. What I say all the time is that let's look at the area where we are converging. If we agree on these points, let's focus on the points where we agree. When we did the merger in the not-for-profit sector, it was the same thing. It's easy to focus on where you have divergence. In the human being, we have a tendency to focus on the divergence instead of focusing on the convergence. Focus on the convergence where we have mutual interest and the area where you may have doubts or differently, park them and find a way of discussing them. But don't stall collaboration because you don't agree on five or six things and you may agree on 20 things. That's the lesson that I've learned over my humble life so far. And unfortunately, as human being and professional, you know the traditional way in is that what's their strength, what's their weakness? And then they start focusing on the weaknesses. How do we complement each other on the weaknesses? Their weak on this one is we're trying on this one, we'll complement that. Instead of focusing on the strength of both organizations and co-creating a new business model. From value protection to value creation. We have to move, we've been protecting value. Let's move to value creation. It's a new concept, new business model. Cross-sectoral collaboration is critical for me for having a sustainable world. Bridge the business NGO in academic sector. The business is really bad at documenting good practices. NGOs are underfunded to do it. I've worked in the NGO sector. We never have enough money to document anything that we do. Who is good at doing that? Academics. And they have to do it. It's part of their mandate. They have to write articles. They have to write papers. Associate yourself with academics and have them to write things about you. Get PhD students, master students to work on. It's a great opportunity. Again, cross-sectoral collaboration. And they bring a totally different dimension and they ask questions sometimes that are difficult to answer. My God, you will become much more rich. I can tell you when we did the merger between CECI and WUSC and created in Uniterra, we had academics from ASHAC and McGill that documented the whole process. Articles were published everywhere in Canada and so we were in the limelight. Everybody wanted to be there. So all the NGOs were called all the time. We want to merge. How do we do this and this? Refer them to the articles. This is the lessons learned. This is where you have gaps and difficulties and cautious about these things. It's the same thing in cross-sectoral collaboration. Who is the best place to do that? Academic. Now, the private sector and the NGOs, oh, I said, oh, professor from university, you know, like, they're so theoretical, you know? But you have to engage. You'll find teachers or professor from university that are very practical, that are interested to get certain issues to move forward and to be on the forefront to be able to be for discussion. See, you are thinking of long-term about legacy and meaning. So one of the first thing you have to understand when you work with a company is what is the motivation of the seat? What are these companies? And then you become political. You play around with these companies. This is what you want to achieve? You know it? I will use it to my benefit to make sure that we maximize socioeconomic benefit in the local community. Do you do that? So I'm just gonna brief you about that. It's very critical also when you engage in cross-sectoral collaboration that you understand what's the vision of the company. How do they project themselves? Do they have values? Do they have a language that match your own language where you're coming from, you know? And then what are some of the principles for us when we work is leverage partnership funding and expertise, very critical. Why do we do cross-sectoral collaboration? Of course, it's to leverage funding. As I mentioned earlier, I am not, we will not be substituting the government of Sierra Leone to provide education to all students, all children in Sierra Leone. That's not our role. But we could contribute to that. But we can work together. Expertise, NGOs are much better at doing local development than we are. And I'm not interested of having, creating a local internal NGOs to do local development. That's not our role. Let's work together. And then these projects become much more collaborative and sustainable. Ensure sustainability is embedded within future business development project. And as I said before, capital investment project in the region where we are. It's an investment. Ensure that sustainability indicators, when you have joint project that are jointly agreed upon, monitor and evaluated with the stakeholders. Try to establish joint indicators. It's very powerful. Then you have the concept of local ownership and reciprocity. Partner with an organization that I appreciate cross-sectoral collaboration as a opportunity for value sharing. And of course, there are companies that aren't able to partner and there are NGOs that aren't able to partner. And I'm not saying that one size fits all. We need to keep diversity. But let's open up some area of diversity and keep them alive also to challenge the other area of society. Because there's a lot of learning to be done there. And what are the key challenges? Change our corporate culture. You are working with engineers. I've heard there was a, somebody was an engineer here before. Is somebody was an engineer? Does an engineer in the group? Fine. Anyway, when you work in sustainability and cross-sectoral collaboration, there are two functions that are terrible in that organization. Engineers and lawyers. Engineers are linear thinking. And when they're gonna ask you, quote, this is very nice. Tell me where this relationship was or what GIZ will bring us. Give me the path from A to Z. You know very well when you work in sustainability and local development, the path goes like this, you know? So the engineers are totally mobile. They said like, oh, become insecure. I have targets. I have that line to me. You know, my priorities are there. You are able to tell me when are we gonna achieve this target? I said, no. It's an iterative process. You're gonna be learning from each other. You're dealing with engineers. They are not comfortable with that. Very difficult. Lawyers, now. You're engaged in cross-sectoral collaboration. We need a contract signed by all parties. When I was with Alcan, when we engage with CARE, we signed a contract with CARE to review some of our documents in an area where they had a project. I sent the contract to CARE. CARE got back to me and said, quote, are you nuts? You're sending us a copy of a contract of 65 page to review a project proposal which is binding us of not being able to do anything. I went back to the lawyers and I said, listen, these organizations, you've read the article with plan that are losing their funding from donors because they've got engaged in this cross-sectoral collaboration with CEDA. So I explained to that to the lawyer. I said, they have a reputation and they have to be in a way, in a position that if we do anything wrong, they are able to criticize us publicly. It took me six months. And then there was a lawyer from Chicago that was bright enough. He says, fine. He wrote a very small paragraph and says, like, CARE will be able to criticize, out-cam on public available documents. CARE, fine. You need to be creative. So challenges like this, I face them all the time. Learn to become a shareholder regarding shared issues. Very difficult for a company because we like to drive. We have target production. We need to produce production objectives all the time. We need to meet them. Then we report to the shareholders. We go to the market, et cetera. To become a stakeholder and have these debate, you know, like, in the angel sector, you've worked at, you've seen it, you know, like, emotional debate. Should we do this? Should we not do this? We'll go back tomorrow, we'll discuss this. The private sector does not work that way. It's very pragmatic. It needs to make quick decisions. So we need to find a balance. Very difficult. And the tendency, sometimes, when they see that the collaboration does not work, nothing moves forward, they go back to the old paradigm. Let's do it. Let's fund it. Then I fight. No. Can't do this because we're going back into the old model. It's not sustainable. And then we create dependency. So it's always tension all the time. Build consensus in fragmented context. Aren't we living in a fragmented society today? We are living in the most polarized society I have ever, I mean, in all my life. And my word of advice to you, to finish the talk before you can ask any questions, or kill tomato at me, is to think broadly about issues and impact. Be a hybrid, a bridge, a communicator between traditional and distinct sectors, academic, business, government, civil society. Train students on how to engage and partner with different stakeholders. That's critical. People are ill-equipped. They don't know how to engage with various stakeholders. They are scared. The first time when I went to work in Paraguay, we were building a smelter. We had to go to the Ministry of Environment. The Minister of Environment was the former head of Friends of the Earths. Friend of the Earths are attacking all the private sector companies all the time. So the manager of the project, I told him, we will go and meet Friends of the Earths. The minister is coming from that organization. Let's go and talk and present the project. I told him, you're crazy. They're gonna eat us alive. I said, let's go. We have nothing to lose. Let's go and present the project. So we went. He was so damn nervous. I was nervous too because they made me scared after that. I was, we were gonna have, something is gonna happen then. We move into that house. Bamboo tree everywhere. We had time stairs and it was very special. Not corporate environment at all, you know? So we moved in, sat down. Then we were there. They were suspicious. They were looking at us. We presented the project. What's the plan, the investment, et cetera. And then at the end of the meeting, they said, it's the first time that we had a company coming to talk to us. Three years prior to the investment to tell us about the project. We would like to thank you very much and we look to engage with you. So this went back to the minister. Then we went to the minister. The minister was smiling and very happy to meet with us. So it was a new inspiration. So go beyond your fear. Go outside the sandbox and try things sometimes.