 A leaky shooting eyewitness who testified before the Lagos State MSARS judicial panel is attacked for giving her testimony, while a member of the panel is also being threatened. And as ex-governor Emeka Ihedioha of Imol State declares his intention to run for office again in 2023, some stakeholders accuse him of violating the Electoral Act. Well, this is Plus Politics. I am Mary Ann O'Connor. An eyewitness who testified before the Lagos State judicial panel on police brutality has announced that she was attacked for giving a testimony to the panel. K.M.C.Chukul Ibe was one of the eyewitnesses that appeared before the panel whose report contradicts what the government said happened on the evening of October 20, 2020. Now, in a video published on social media, she said she was attacked by three men in Lagos because of her testimony. Also, a member of the panel, Ebon Olu Adeborua, also stated that some persons he suspects to be working for the government have been threatening him. And lawyer who represents MSARS protesters at the Lagos judicial panel at Deshinau, Ogunlana, has called for the resignation of President Mohammad Buhari and Governor Babajideh Song Olu of Lagos State, now following all of the reports delivered by the panel. Joining us to discuss this is at Deshinau, Ogunlana, he's the legal counsel of the MSARS protesters and Dele Faroutimi, he's a political analyst. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thank you very much for having me. Okay. I'm going to start with you, Mr. Faroutimi. Let's look at the recent developments. Of course, like I started in my intro, two persons who have said that one was attacked, the other is receiving threats. Another is asking for a resignation of the president and the governor, which is almost a mirage. But I want you to take a look at all of the things that have happened. We tried to have a conversation last week on this same issue, but we have more developments. So I'm going to let you tell me what you think. Well, one thing you can say for the Nigerian government is that it is very predictable. When the panel was set up, we had a lot of time to go before it, because we were not too certain that the government that set it up was necessarily interested in what its report would have to be if it was going to be a truthful, vicious commission, because we knew the truth. It wasn't like we were unaware of what the truth was. The truth hasn't changed since the night of the 20th of October. The only thing that has changed since the night of the 20th of October has been the several stories of the several spokespersons and representatives of both the Nigerian state and the ruling class. So the governor's stories have evolved several times. The Nigerian army's stories have evolved several times. Mr. Lai Mohamed stories have evolved several times. Each and every one of the stories of each and every one of the persons involved, including the ones who decided that they have become the finders of cameras and things. Everybody's stories have evolved. The only thing that has not evolved have been the truth. It's still the same truth as it was on the night of the 20th of October. And the panel had no choice but to find as it has found because it is in the nature of truth not to change. Now that the panel has found as it has found, you have seen highly paid consultants from those playing acting statements framing the less weights to the lawyers coming to play the belly coach Garou Los noise makers shaping the alternative narrative that the government would rather push. All these continues to change but the truth does not change and the panel has found the truth. Now do I expect President Buahari to resign or shall I say General Buahari to resign because the panel has found that all of them have been lying and there was indeed a massacre? Of course I do not expect that to happen. He wouldn't even change the fact that having established this truth, responsibility or to be taken and if they will not take responsibility it will be who's us who calls ourselves citizens to decide the manner of our responses. The only thing we must do is begin to react and then get on to the street and become violent. They will be very happy if we did that. I would do it. We would it. They are the violent ones and let me deal with the issue of threats. It's unfortunate that a young lady like Kansi who might know because I had occasion to have provided slave housing to them in the immediate aftermath of the protests and when the state and all these attack dogs were growling after them in the immediate aftermath. And I know Mary and she's a very dedicated, honest, patriotic young Nigerian, not a strongly young woman, a tennis coach. One of the strokes of Marchets, one of the Marchets stroke almost slashed off Harris. She's a semi-professional tennis player. That's how she ends her living. Those who play tennis at the VGC court, they all know her. She's a coach there. They stop that at the bus stop. I don't account. They shun light in a high and say, okay, you have the one. They say, okay, you'll be going to when you reach where you are going. And then they start cutting up. Marchets on a young lady, what a scrawny little woman. And they were slashing at three men. I should go take a bus stop there. All she ever did, it was to stand up because let's be clever something. Those who died that night, whether that is one, two, how many it might be, the panel has found that we need the 11 people to die. People can cut and dice and dissect and assemble and lie all the ones faced with it. Look, in that panel, they're chatting about the board of directors on the panel. It's a unanimous decision of the panel. It's not like there was a minority report. They all agreed. The facts are established. So these noises that they are making left, right and center, it is up to the Nigerian people to determine the extent of what the rest process should be. But let's not be arguing those ones again. So cutting that young woman, I believe he was clear that he intended to kill her. You don't go slashing stone to the point of cutting to people. And she was using that hand to dock. That was why the court was that big. It's not the court. I quickly just want to ask, why do you think that these people are being targeted? Don't forget, Mr. Degwurua has said that he feels that the people who are threatening him are agents of government. And Kamsi also is thinking in that same direction. Why do you think that these people are being targeted? What would be the end game? Listen, back in February this year was fortunate to become privy to a plot to murder me. I wrote two petitions. One was addressed to the director of the DSS in Lagos State. The second was addressed to the Lagos State Commissioner of Police. I mentioned the names of two persons who were involved in that plot. I never disclosed the names of these persons to the press. And I do not intend to, in order not to scandalize anybody. But I made a report in writing to both agencies of government. I believe about a month later the DSS got in touch with my lawyers to inform my lawyers that that would be a responsibility for the police and that they wouldn't be getting involved in that. The police, I believe, got in touch almost two months later and asked me to come and adopt my petition, which I did. This is, I believe, nine months later after the petition was written. I have now received a single phone call from the police. And even if one were to be sent to me now, I do not intend to annoy it because I now believe that there is a confluence of power in Lagos State that is determined to keep the truth of what happened at the Lucky Toe Gate as quiet as it can possibly be, even if that means killing people. Now, I will put my name to two petitions, take it to these agencies of government. And I'm saying to you that as I sit here today, these have not been deemed serious enough to warrant any investigation in Lagos State. And then someone like Camsi, who was kept in safe houses along with other people who ended up testifying at the panel. Now that they have gone back to their homes, people are going after them and with Camsi, she was slashed with machetes. She's alive today for the grace of God. And then those who went to check her in the hospital yesterday got there and when they came downstairs to get into their own cars, they found an envelope containing what is evidently clear threats to their own lives as well. And then let's tell ourselves the bare truth here. No matter how much we might seek to normalize these insanities that have become part and parcel of our lives as a people. The reality is that high government officials in this country today have committed themselves to keeping the truth of what happened at Lake Eden. Let's be clear about something. These charges are grievous enough to lead to Ramimba, an organization to which I belong, the radical agenda in Nigeria to be making categorical demands that if we are indeed in a democracy and it has been established that the army was called out on the night of the 28th of October and there were citizens at that toll gate. They were sat on the floor holding flags and they were shot at, even if it was only one person that was killed. The governor, I believe, first said there was one and then he said there was two. The panel has said that there are 11 and there are sufficient testimonies from doctors, Grandville Medical Center, Redington in Lekie. People have come out to tell us that they treated bullet wounds coming out of that toll gate. They have witnessed testimonies. LCC has studiously refused to turn over the recordings at that toll gate that would clearly tell the truth of what happened that night. And people have committed, the minister for information, that is the spokesperson for our country, the person who is speaking for Nigeria, is denying the humanity of those that were killed in that place. Why does the truth become an offense in this country? Why? Why can't, is it too much to admit that, look, a mistake has been made here? Not necessarily that is a mistake. We all know it's not a mistake. This is not the first time the Nigerian state will kill and it's still killing on a daily basis. But this one, you've been caught fair and square, this is not happening. It doesn't happen in Zaria. There is a life feed. The Zaria one is bad enough, 347 also. That's something, a panel of enquiries established. They're not even arguing that one anymore. It's about minimizing the numbers. So it's not something new. It's not something new. But this one, you can't keep denying this because the more lies they're telling, the more they're having to tell and eventually there would have to be a recourse to fascism because those of us who know the truth of why spoke to survivors. I'm not going to accept these lies you're telling and help you normalize it. And it's not going to end killing any one of us or injuring people, threatening people. You can change anything. But can I come in here quickly? I'm not in any way trying to hold brief for the government of Lagos or any of those people. But could this also be that the people who are carrying out these threats or those who lynched or tried to kill Kamsi could have been some imposters or people who are overzealous, overzealously supporting governments at whether the state level or the federal government because we saw a pro-government group when the protests were going on last year and we saw the same people sometime this year too. So could it be the handy walk, I'm just asking, of people who are probably overzealously trying to support the government stand? And might not necessarily be the government because I'm wondering why would a government stupidly do a thing like that knowing that there will be a blowback of sorts? Let me put it this way. I would answer the last one first. Stupidity is in the nature of Nigerian governance. It's nothing new. If our government and our governors and I think governors at all levels, the rulers of Nigeria, if they were stupid, we would not be the way we are. So let's leave that bit about being stupid first. But it's not an unfair question and it's also not an unfair defense to race on behalf of the government and it's only fair to consider it. After all, life is predictably cheap in our environment. But the problem with that assumption or any such defense on behalf of the government would demand that we must ignore the evidence of our own heights. The evidence of our experiences must be ignored before we would go as far as to offer those excuses on behalf of government even though we must retain that doubt as reasonable human beings as well. But consider this. I just told you that in February of this year I became privy to a plan to kill me. It wasn't a threat. It wasn't that somebody was calling me to threaten me. No. Understand that I came to Lagos in 1985 at 17. So I've been in this town for some time and I've moved around in this town for a while. I've lived in Leki since 2002. I've been in the Leki. I've been around. So I have all kinds of friends in all kinds of places and I became privy to these and it was alarming enough and like it was credible, exceedingly credible. I had names. I had venue. I have more than I have said and I wrote a petition. I wrote to the DSS. I wrote, let me not overflow the issue, but survives to say that months after no action has been taken. So now one of the persons who was already being threatened at the time, before they went before the panel, they were in hiding all over the place. When they were going before the panel, they were moving from safe houses. I was involved in this. I know these persons. I know the degree of danger that they were under and the kind of evasive actions that had to be taken to ensure their attendance at the panel. And then such a person now went back to a normal life. She's not somebody who is open about the place, not some social life. She then got a bus stop coming from her work and then somebody shone light in her eyes and said, okay, the one going to the panel. It was not like. Let's even say, okay, so maybe perhaps on behalf of the government, let's imagine that it was some mischief maker somewhere. Let's imagine that. But what do we do with what we already know? Interestingly, I'm not sure. I've not shared a room with a gentleman ever. So I don't know him personally, but of course I know him by his reputation. He's my frivolous man. Might be many things. I don't agree with his politics and I doubt that he agrees with mine. But facts are facts. Airborne came out to categorically say that he's been treading. I didn't have the benefit of hearing treads. I became privy to a plan and each and every one of the persons around me in the last year plus, I've had the occasion to take all kinds of evasive actions and countermeasures in relation to their security. We have to ask ourselves, even if we are saying maybe it's not the government sponsoring it, whose responsibility is it to protect the citizens? That leads to my next question because I was going to ask. There was a meeting yesterday that some of you attended speaking on this same issue. Going forward, who's going to guarantee the safety of these people? Because they're still out there, like Camsi. There are several other people who have also spoken before this panel. And this means if what Mr. Agboruwa has said is anything to go by, then it means that every other person on that panel could also be a target. I mean, by who so ever. So what is going forward? Again, it's a two-pronged question. It looks like this issue is a battle fought by a handful of people and we don't see that crowd backing this few in making sure that there's a press for the government to push and make sure that this everybody's brought to book. So what should we be looking forward to? Is there anything really to look forward to? The beautiful thing about standing by the truth is that it does not require any embellishment. You don't need to do anything to help the truth to stand tall. If you're telling the truth, you're also doing me to remember what you said last year because it's constant that the truth might not appear popular is deceptive. Nigerians were told consistently. I remember I've been on your show and I remember saying categorically that as long as that panel is allowed to conclude its work, it will certainly strip the Nigerian state naked. That's what it has done. All these dance of shame, all these denials, all these lies, the more they do it, the happier I am. I, as a person, have never been happier in my life. I am seeing the Nigerian state telling barefaced lies that we unravel over time. It doesn't matter whether we live or die. Everybody will die by the time. Nobody is going to cow us or get us to... I'm not going to run out of Nigeria. Nobody is running from anybody. If we've committed a crime, let the Nigerian state charge us with that crime. It is the duty of the state to protect us, but we are also not sitting ducks. We haven't survived as long as we have by this stupid. And you don't go announcing the security measures you take to the whole world. It's advised to say that we will not be sitting ducks. Our people know who is who, like the ones who are busy plotting the stupid thing in February. They understand, but you can do these things when you are not known. When you are known, when you do, you get done too. That's the way it is. So it's not that somebody will now sit down somewhere. Nobody can be threatening anybody. They're not running anywhere for anyone. The police has a duty to protect Nigerians. When they are done with their partisanship, they will still remember their primary duty. It's not up to us. It's up to the state to protect us as citizens. But Mr Lai, just recently, he somewhat made a joke of everything that has been said. Every Nigerian was earnestly waiting for the federal government to speak on this issue. And they kept saying that the panel's reports may not necessarily be presented to the federal government. They might not have a hand in it, et cetera, et cetera. But today, Mr Mohamed is calling it tales by to be answerable. And these who were in a part of this, if they're all supposed to be answerable, and the federal government is speaking in this regard, will it ever do anything for, you know, to make this the true joke? The joke is Mr Lai Mohamed is not the panel's report. The true joke is Mr Lai Mohamed is a joke. He's a joke because I probably, I might be the only Nigerian who was in holding my breath waiting for him to talk, because he was always predictable what he would have to say. They've been saying the same thing they've been saying in different varying positions for the last one year. They have no choice. As long as they have to continue pretending that we are a democracy, they cannot own up to what they have done. But they will not always remain in power. Men come and go. Seasons end. Mohamed Buwari will leave power in 2023. He does not have the capacity to own up to what he did. None of them would dare to own up to what they did. They committed crimes. That was what they did. And they have to keep lying. And let's be clear about something because some of us tend to get this twisted. The international community is clear. They know what happens. They know what happens. But it is not in their own interests to also admit to what they know. So those of us who are demanding the truth, we're not demanding the truth expecting that anybody will come and join us to demand the truth from our government. They will not. We also do not expect that every Nigerian would accept because a lot of people prefer that we kept quiet and life does return to normal for them. I don't know exactly what normalcy, what normalcy, what is normal about the way we live, I don't know. But some of us have committed our lives to seeking this truth. I'm curious. I'm curious. I'm so sorry. Finally, before I let you go, are you saying that the government of Nigeria, and I'm talking about the government of Lagos States and every other state that had this protest, including the army and the police risk sanctions from the international community for them to keep a tight lip because that's what you're saying. They may not ever tell the truth. This is what you're saying. I'm struggling to believe that this is what will happen because we just had the Secretary of State for the United States visit. And then the undertone of that visit is that we may risk sanctions if human rights issues are not being addressed. I would prefer to see sanctions issued by the Nigerian people. I'm not holding my breath waiting for America or Blinken or Mr Boris Johnson or any one of the western powers or China or anyone. I'm not expecting any one of them to do anything for us. They do not have the moral will to do the right thing in Africa. They are complicit in our mess. As long as the Nigerian government can continue to hold on to its bare faced lies of nothing happened on the 20th and they can cow people sufficiently, perhaps keep enough people to finally silence the demand for justice. The international community is happy with whatever we do to ourselves as long as we don't become refugees in their land. Why do you think America will not give... Look, as far as they're concerned, as long as the oil continues to flow and we have the stupid money to spend where we go and you buy something that you should buy for a hundred million, you buy it for one billion, you borrow two billion, you share them. They are happy with the way we are. I'm not interested in what the international community cares to do with the truth they already know. It is we Nigerians, we ourselves who need to be interested in the truth because this life is transient. We will go someday. What kind of country do we expect to be quits to our children? One where it is normal for policemen and soldiers to kill civilians and then add government officials, come out and deny that they did it. Is that the kind of country we want to live when we are gone? Well, I guess that's the question that we'll all have to marinate on. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Dilip Faro to me is a political analyst. Thank you for being part of the conversation. We appreciate it. Thank you very much for having me. All right. Thank you all for staying with us. Still on plus politics coming up. Former governor of the United States, Emeka Iheryuha, declares his intention to run for office again. Many people are not happy. We'll take a short break when we come back for this press.