 many people at home right now watching this. Good morning. How are you? You're watching the Lidia's Breakfast Show in this hair terminal in Valentine's Day or at Calamity Bell. If you have been grounded by this type of virus, it's okay, but please wash your hands, okay? Wash your hands, keep what also is supposed to wait, wait. If you cough, do it over here, the elbow, salimiana, ify, amazah, hewatu, amamombeivo, namaste, the basic things. And if symptoms persist tamuhimoni, seek medical advice. At White Pepper Facebook, at White Pepper Channel on Twitter. Today is not really Mental Health Monday, but it has a ring to it. Today is Health Monday, but it's going to be Mental Health Monday because that's what we're going to focus on. So please come and join me in introducing our guest. Hello. Hi. You guys look fantastic. Thank you. But I'm sure you've already had that today. Maybe you can start with yourself. What is your good name? Thank you for having me. My name is Frederick Beucci. I have so many other titles on my name, but today I'm here as a mental health awareness activist. I'm so much into epilepsy, which also, you know, it's one of the cases that we are addressing. But my Monday today is to just show how best we can create awareness around mental health and all other cases that are aligned to, you know, these other conditions that people talk about. Yeah. We used to think it was a white people problem a long time ago. Yes. Yes. We're trying to stop that thinking. Yeah. It's going to be exciting. Yeah. You are. Hi. I am Mary Beter. I'm a researcher at the Camry Welcome Trust Research Program in Kilifi, as well as a student researcher at Oxford University in the UK. My research area is around mental health interventions, trying to understand how we can get more people to seek care for mental health and how we can empower the health systems to be able to support these people. Yes. And also a long time ago, we used to think people with certain conditions are pretending. Yes. Or they're just really slow. It's just something that they're doing that's wrong. Not really that there's a condition or there's a situation going on. Yes. So, wow. First of all, I'm so floored by your whole life. Oh my gosh. When I grow up, I want to be like you. Okay. Hashtag is white money. So maybe let's start with what you do. Yeah. So what I do is I try to come up with creative ways of, you know, raising awareness around all areas of mental health conditions. One thing we have realized is there is a gap in people being able to understand. And that gap has been created by lack of information. So people have different perceptions about what all these mental health conditions are. People have, you know, different perceptions also of how to live with mental conditions. At what point do we ever say that this person has this condition or that other condition? Where do we really draw the line? And what right information is supposed to be shared to people? And we used to think back then mental illness cases were for the old people. But now with the suicides rising among young people, we are tracking back ourselves and trying not to understand what is it that young people are not aware of. Could there be other ways of improving our level of getting information so that, you know, the whole mental health thing does not sound like Greek to people. Yet it is with us here. So yeah, we employ different methods of creating awareness. And one of the things that we utilize again is the media. When we begin the conversations over here, you probably get so many other people following it up even after we've been able to create awareness. One particular thing I would like to mention again is sometime back I took up a challenge of, you know, getting the conversation going. And in 2018, I did a work from Nairobi to Mombasa. From Nairobi to Mombasa. Of course, I got the same reactions by the time I was trying to tell people that I was going to do the work. But this was the point. When every other person was trying to get to understand why would a person work 482 kilometers, you know, from Nairobi to Mombasa, already it started the conversation. So every other person who wanted to hear why I was working, I was already telling them, you know, what is a gap in people getting information about mental health, about epilepsy, and so many others. So if I have been able to capture your attention because I'm doing the work, then this is the conversation I need us to begin, you know, over and over so many other people. Before we get maybe to the link between the awareness of mental health and epilepsy, maybe you can tell me, is it new? Because I would like to assume, again, I've been assuming all day, that the generation before us, I didn't really hear a lot of suicide cases, either because maybe technology wasn't as effective as it is now, or maybe there's just something they were doing that we're not doing. Or technology is the reason that we are committing suicide now. What's going on? I think mental illness is as old as mankind. It has been here for the longest time possible. And things like suicide have also been here for a very long time. For example, one culture that I'm aware of is the Kalingin culture, where they used to do what is called mass suicide, where old people would gather together and throw themselves off a cliff into waterfalls because they felt that they were old and they were becoming a burden. And by that time, it was culturally appropriate, so they did not consider it as a mental illness. And by the way, we say die by suicide and not commit suicide, because when we say commit suicide, it's like we are glorifying the act of a person taking their own life, which often is a consequence of distress or despair or giving up hope in life. So we say die by suicide and not commit suicide. So mental illness has existed for a very long time. But what is happening now is that the conversations are wider because now there's technology. We can talk to people from all over the world and we can hear more stories. But these conditions have always existed. And also now people are more willing to share their stories and to talk about them. And we are taking advantage of that. For example, the research that I'm focusing on now is about raising awareness using very creative methods, including engaging both biomedical practitioners who are healthcare providers in hospitals and what we call alternative health practitioners, what people call waganga or wachawi. This is going to be late. So how do they come together? That's a good question. So the project that I'm working on currently is called difusimo, which means breaking free in Kigiriyama, which is where we are trying to get these two practitioners on the table to talk about mental health, to talk about how they are managing these patients and to talk about how they can work together to benefit the patient. Now, I know you're imagining how does this even work because traditional practitioners have their own set of rules and regulations of diagnosis and management and healthcare providers as well. What used to happen initially is that people used to try and decide who is right and who is wrong. And that was not working because it's not about challenging what the other person is doing, but it's about what's at the center of all this. It is the patient. So what difusimo is doing is making the patient the center of the conversation and then asking these two groups what can they do to improve the outcomes of the patient. And we are using very creative methods to do this. We are using songs, we are using poems, we are using dance, and we're even using documentaries and films to try and engage these two groups. So for example, we have a film which I hope people can get to check out in our website www.difusimo.org. This film is about a man with schizophrenia, which is what people call wasim, which is the type of mental illness that people know about the most. The one where someone is disheveled, they are unkempt, they are talking to themselves, they are seeing things that other people are not seeing. We are using this film in this documentary to try and initiate dialogue about what happens when someone goes through all these pathways of care. So Changawa, who is the man in this story, has seen traditional healers, they have seen faith healers, which is the imams at hospital, and now they are seeking care at hospital, the biomedical facility. So we are just using this documentary to try and engage people to see what happens when a person has mental illness, and they go through all these pathways of care, and how can all these providers come together and talk about how they can help patients with mental illness. And I can say it has been successful to some extent, because what we are seeing now, for instance, a practice that's happening in Kilefi is that the clinicians there are actually seeing patients and encouraging them in subsequent visits to come with their Imam or with their pastor or whoever they are seeing at home, so that this dialogue can happen. So I think that is one way that we are trying to address this stigma that has been there about what are the causes of these disorders, who should I see if I have these disorders? You are the future. And you know, it flowers me to imagine that you could be so educated and still, you know, consider African traditional practices, because they don't want anything to do with African things. So it's, it's, it's, wow, it's wonderful that there was, there was a guest who came also on Health Monday, and he said he was conducting research as well. So he wanted, the organization was aimed at helping people in different counties. So they would go with help to the county with their own kind of program and, you know, kind of enforce what they were told to do. And then they came to realize, okay, you must adapt according. You can't just give them because they have their own ways of solving things. They have their own cultures and beliefs and all this. So the amalgamation is fantastic. I mean, I wanted to say that I told you, I told you now, sir, there was a time where I had an interview again with someone who lives with epilepsy. And she told me a couple of things that I found very difficult. Like basic things she couldn't do alone. Like maybe drive a car because you never know when the episode would be there and she needs someone. And, hey, again, now you couple it with something like depression, you know, mental illness. That's just, you know, let's make him a guy. He's not supposed to talk about his feelings. He's living with epilepsy. And now how do we help him? So it's true. You know, the reason why we are also trying to look at epilepsy and mental health, when you talk of depression, anxiety, this condition also elicits some of that. I mean, once it has been mentioned or diagnosed that somebody has epilepsy, you know, anxiety already strikes in. And over time, somebody becomes so depressed because of the same idea that they feel they're already locked out from doing some of the things that they're supposed to do. Say driving, when they think about marriage already, that's a close door for them. When they think about, you know, getting employment for whatever careers that they study, they have a feel that, you know, we're in the same position. We can do these things. But by the time I mentioned that I have this kind of condition, then I might not be able to get that opportunity. And it's worse again for children because the parents also feel why I let them go to school when every other time they have an attack, I have to be called. It's chaos in school. So let me just lock them inside and not give them that opportunity that other people do have. So how are we helping them? One is by, you know, getting everybody to know what all these conditions are and getting everybody to know the strength that is in each and every person who has different conditions. Aside from one having a condition, we have to be in the knowledge that they are human beings. And that's why even in epilepsy, we shun away from addressing them as epileptics because now it's like you're taking that condition and you are stamping. So this person doesn't even have a name again. And I draw that from an experience I've had because I'm taking care of a sister who has epilepsy. And at some point, her name was fading away. If anyone wanted to refer to her, you know, and getting it right, she would say when she has a name, her name is Masi. So you try to struggle with that. But you won't blame these people so much. It's because from their understanding is when you end up having a certain condition, then it becomes your identity. And then if it becomes your identity, that's what I try to define you with. When they begin to define you with that, even the basic rights that you're supposed to enjoy as a human being, you begin struggling again to, you know, end them when they are supposed to be rights that need to like be cut across every other person. So yeah, and that's why awareness is very important at this point in time because what we are trying to say is with all these other creative measures, as Mary has mentioned, we are trying to forward the idea that these people have their rights. These people can lead normal lives. Those that have been diagnosed and they can be put under medication, I mean, they can just be live and be okay. Right now, my sister has been seizure free for almost four years now. She's back to school. And it's because we've just adhered to, you know, medication and what the doctor is advising. And all these people have the right to get proper care from the hospitals or the places that we refer them to go for help so that they can lead normal lives. It must be a task. Already you're taking medication, you're trying to live a normal life and then again, someone does not think you're normal. It must be a lot. Okay, so maybe if I could ask, you mentioned schizophrenia. It's something that we watch in movies a lot. Is there like, I don't know, let me frame this right. What's a silent killer in mental illness? Is it depression? What is it really that is taking away people from us? And we don't really know or we don't, there are no obvious symptoms. You won't start removing your clothes in this year town and teaching from the reason. But it's taking away your soul, it's taking away your mental health, that kind of glow you're supposed to have every day. Is there like one or two? I mean, there is no specific condition that would say silent killer because what is most debilitating about all types of mental illness is the disability that it inflicts upon the person with the disorder. I would say depression is the commonest because you know, Kenya is currently ranked sixth in Africa for mental disorders. There are about six million people in the country suffering from one mental neurological disorder or another and depression alone accounts for 1.9 million out of the six million, so it's sort of the commonest. But I think what's the silent killer is the stigma actually, like you mentioned, you know, one woman after another. You don't ask, for example, someone saying, don't tell anybody that they're someone with epilepsy in this family or someone with schizophrenia in this family. It is the stigma that is actually the silent killer in all these disorders because I wouldn't say that there's one disorder that a person suffers more than the other. But I guess depression is more common because it is not easily identifiable, especially mild and moderate form. Someone would look very well dressed, someone would be here at work laughing and smiling, but slowly dying inside like you're saying. So it is the disability, it is the stigma that is actually the big problem in people with mental illnesses really. Yes, how would you advise us maybe for those who believe that they're not suffering because you could be suffering from mental illness and you don't know, but how would, how do we be compassionate without overstepping? How do we help without being overbearing? I would just, I like giving like three things that I say would be tell-tale because the first step to helping would be to know or to recognize that a person is actually suffering. So the first one I would always say is thoughts, the second one is actions, and the third one is feelings. If you notice a change in any of these three things, if you're noticing that someone is just behaving slightly differently, for depression it would be being with the drone, I'm losing interest in activities that were previously pleasurable, changes in appetite, eating too much or not eating at all. When you look at someone they look really tired because they didn't sleep last night at all. Just if you notice changes in these things, in their actions, in their way of thinking, maybe they're really meticulous and now they're missing their attention to the details etc. If you notice these things, the first step is always just find out if they're okay. I always try, I always tell people ask someone are you okay and ask it twice because the first time they're likely to say they're fine. So you know, I'm just find out about how the person is and another important thing is to know what to do, what if I have a problem, what's the next step to do. There's always help, you can always refer the person to seek care, you know you don't tell them like you're sick, you have a mental illness, just tell them it would be good if you speak to someone and also taking care of yourself while you're taking care of the other person because you know what would happen if you're too empathetic is that you might end up having what we call vicarious trauma where you know a person is constantly telling you their problems and you're constantly taking it in and you're not taking care of yourself. So you end up carrying all these burdens. So making sure that you're taking care of yourself even as you take care of the other person and just watching out for the other person because with mental illness there are always signs, it's just that we miss the signs because we're always absorbed in what's going on in our lives etc. So yeah just being observant, taking care of yourself and just finding out how the other person is as well. There's simple, simple things. How are you? How are you doing? In fact just tell me at White Fife on Facebook, at White Fife on channel, on Twitter, hashtag is why in the morning. Maybe in conclusion, if the viewer has just tuned in to why in the morning and you want your words to make an impact and you want them to remember this important fact, what would it be? What drives you? What wakes you up in the morning? Yeah so two things I would say is we as human beings we have different experiences in life and sometimes we need to have a spirit of accommodating others that we feel they have been on the road with us but they go to a point and they started either getting tired or wearing out and feeling like life is on the low for their side. Nobody really chooses to have a kind of condition that they know will limit them to live their full life. But we get to some point in life and we find ourselves in those circles. So one thing I would say is those that have found themselves in such conditions number one is accept you know that that is what is happening at that moment in time because most of us live in denial of the reality of the things that have got ourselves to where we are and every other day we try now to prove that it's not what we are experiencing now. We are trying to print a different picture out there if you are taking photos you are posting and you just want to keep that positive vibe and on the other on the flip side of it you want to deny something that it's really the reality. So acceptance is a big issue here and for families now and I'll give my own example what has really proved out to be of help even for the well-being of our sister has been the support of every other family member that has been there. If you don't have that extended family to really feel are going to be there for you then you need to choose on a few friends that you can really rely on and you can always share you can always be open to. I don't know of other conditions but epilepsy in itself if one person has it indirectly it affects other five people indirectly because I remember at some point I had to quit my job so that I'm home to take care of my sister it was a tall order for my mom to just do that work by herself and already from withdrawing from work there is a ripple effect in you being able to contribute to the welfare of the family. Every other time we come home and she has a fresh injury because she got an attack you know there's food on the table but nobody feels like eating because you're looking at this particular case so if you're not you don't come together as a family and give out that support then it becomes a little bit difficult to keep up with there with helping any other condition aside from just being epilepsy. So acceptance and family support these two things in helping us curb mental health and mental illnesses and just helping these people live a full life very important. You're humbling me just you could just be sitting then suddenly you fall and now you've cut yourself. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Oh gosh. Wait hashtag is one morning. Okay I have two special questions for you as we finish up. One please again tell us about your amazing project and maybe your greatest accomplishment in regards to it and then usually we hold conversations very very informal conversations sometimes about relationships and I am coming to understand that so many people have been hurt by someone or the other and I'm thinking maybe not it's not because people are bad it's just because they're hurting themselves and hurt people who hurt other people bleed on everyone else so maybe I don't know how we can just advise that maybe lay some hands some magical hands some educated hands on it. Yes please. Okay I guess so the first point about DeFosimo. So DeFosimo is a collaboration between Cambridge Welcome Trust the documentary Institute of Eastern Africa and the Malindi District Cultural Association. Now these three groups came together to try and raise awareness about mental illness. This is a project that's funded by the Welcome Trust Public Engagement Fund and so what Cambridge leads the research documentary Institute leads the filming, archiving, documenting and the Malindi District Cultural Association are the custodians of the culture and in the context of Kilefi County and what the project is doing is that we are trying to engage the different stakeholders to raise awareness about mental health. The stakeholders here are people with mental illness themselves their caregivers members of the community that they live in and like I mentioned health care providers both what we call mainstream health care providers that's the doctors the NACCC and the alternative health care providers. This includes traditional healers faith healers or in Kiswaydi they say wawonbezi and this could be moms could be pastors could be people not practicing any religion. Yeah so what we are trying to do is what we call using participatory approaches so not talking at them but having dialogue with them to try and understand the context of the disease in Kilefi County and to try and together come up with ways of addressing stigma. The main aim of the campaign is to try and demystify the myths and misconceptions around mental illness for example that mental illness is caused by witchcraft that if a man speaks about mental illness they are weak, myths that people with mental illness cannot lead normal and productive lives. We are trying to demystify those myths and also we are trying to direct people to care and tell them that these conditions can't be managed you can live a normal life and we try and give them the alternatives that are available by directing them to the different facilities etc. So that's it about Defusimo and I really hope people can check out our social media pages. Go go there go there Defusimo.org we are Defusimo on Twitter Defusimo Facebook Defusimo YouTube just check out our channels and see what we do write to us talk to us we love having conversations online end of line. And your second question about you know the effect of mental health in relationships and I believe you're talking about different forms of relationships it could be you know parent child husband wife boyfriend girlfriend whatever um yeah so um you know there are very many things that determine mental wellness there are very many social determinants of mental wellness and as you know right now um there's a lot going on in this country there's a lot of unemployment there's a lot of stress and a lot of strain and these things contribute to mental ill health for example social determinants are very key to triggering things like depression. So um I mean the advice that I can give is just you know being constantly aware that these things do exist and that they can affect anyone in fact one in four people at some point in their life will suffer from a mental illness and a lot of the things that we are seeing right now could be manifestations of you know people suffering from this different disorder so just constantly insisting on the message of being self aware being aware of your environment and just doing what you can to uplift another person when you realize you know that they are going through a struggle being the listening here being the first point of contact with that person and just letting you know the other person know that you can talk to me if you have a problem and then using that opportunity to direct them to a professional who can assist them because these conditions are manageable and you can lead a normal productive life if you seek care in good time. She's goals she's just goals she's life goals basically you're still watching her in the morning. So we have a question on our social media platforms Facebook and we're asking to men know how to express themselves and all that talk to Val this is Val all right so as we continue thank you Kita for that wonderful post we have a Duncan on Diego says hashtag when the morning watch it from a dine north area oh yes nothing is like that um then a good says in Aldama ravine why not express yourself i like that minor noises they don't we leave everything to go sasa ona sasa ona nani okay as we continue remember to use a hashtag is one the morning remember to wash your hands guys wash your hands yes so as we continue remember it's at white platform facebook why two five four channel on twitter i've had such an amazing conversation if you missed it please do like you and go to our youtube channel where you will get a clip official of this here situation thank you so much thank you for braving corona and come into studio we really appreciate you thank you for having us so you know how to find them in in fact just repeat how can we find you yes um on facebook fredrik beuchi i also have a page on angaza kifafa na beuchi yeah that's purely for epilepsy yeah and then you can also check national epilepsy coordination committee currently the national secretary for national epilepsy board there's a lot of information there about epilepsy and mental health um and you can also get my number there as opposed to saying that you can find me on my personal pages um twitter facebook at mary beta and also on my project pages at difu simo www.difu simo.org hey you heard it here first don't go away at hillary the the river is coming up with youth and politics i don't want to miss it thank you