 So let's call the meeting to order. We're all set with the various media Blah blah blah blah blah blah It is 631 We have any agenda additions to agenda from me. I don't see any on the select board memo Does anybody else have any additions? Okay Usually comes in June When we do the warm-up thing, okay. Yeah, it's usually the first or second meeting He's still a bit sorry though, don't I? I'm thinking that I can at least argue that I have that authority some last year. Oh, yeah, it doesn't end until it ends Okay, so that's not an addition. Oh, we do a minute fry Okay, yeah, okay, that's all right We haven't done anything important. So does anybody have a chance to review the minutes? But I wasn't at the meeting so I don't know if I should move to approve them. They were very informative and well-written, but I Have some amendments to make I think in general they're very informative well-written and I have some amendments to make. We're talking April 18th. Yes, okay So second page. Yeah, it's the end of the discussion on the proposed shade tree preservation plan I would like some record of my comments on the town plans and I have some language which I can email you Bruce He Mr. And I have pointed out that you come to their town plans consider roadside trees to be part of the singing beauty of East Montpelier and endorse the system of a tree warden working with others to determine how to manage them you'd like to add that I believe chronologically it came after Mr. Cates comments Mr. Cates yeah, so it would be the penultimate paragraph. Yeah okay, and Then under the WEC annual meeting voting authorization I thought it behooved us to explain why we chose to out of the seven candidates to vote for Bruce things Maybe not. I'm thinking maybe not. Okay. Do you want to explain? Steve final you basically voted for him because you thought he was on the board And and because those of us I pointed out at the end of the second the first paragraph two of the board slots are open as the incumbents are not running for re-election and that sets the stage for At the end of the second paragraph writing one candidate was chosen because he is an incumbent on the grounds of the board benefits from continuity And selects board members respected work the other is an East Montpelier resident background brings useful expertise to the board We discussed it is what you discussed. That's what you want. Go for it. I think when we're casting votes on behalf of the town It's All right, I would argue one of the ride. They should see that It's always lost in the minutes But Thank you, what's another one? That's it. Oh, that's it car. Okay. I make a motion to accept the The minutes with the amendments for April 18th, 2022. So Judith is here. Do you want to ask her if she has any? Oh Rishi I don't see her. Oh, she's behind that There you are. Oh, hi Hi I don't I I just cost that caught the tail end of Carl's amendment though. I apologize Could you just quickly summarize Carl what the gist was if that's okay? Explaining why we voted for the two wet board members that we voted for One wasn't incumbent and we respected work and and you need continuity on a board and the other is Any popular resident who brings valuable skills to the board? Not that I don't know that we don't respect his work, but I don't remember that we said that but I Remember talking about working with him and no I didn't Yes, yeah, I remember what Carl said in I do too so We concurred that He would be a worthy Member yes wet and he already has been and we know his work. So that's probably have a discussion. Yeah, yeah Sure, it's just kind of going forward and I brought this up before We when we say the board feels to the board said not all the time We don't all say certain things some of us might say it like Carl might have said that We all voted that way and I agree, but in terms of what was said Sometimes we should perhaps attribute it to its source Well the language so I was paraphrasing at your request for the gist the language Select board members respect his work Generally Either one works for me so I Guess it doesn't work to do this I guess I don't I don't see the problem was saying both Carl and Seth know and respect his work or something like that I don't know the person so I I don't by saying select board members It suggests that all of us and I'm sure his work is I can't personally say that so I just feel uncomfortable Having an attribution or an inference that I said that Shame on you press Okay, sounds good, so you'll attribute it to you and I yep Okay So we have a motion Did you have any there was another Yes She came in on the end of it there was one more amendment that Carl introduced I don't think you heard you about the tree The tree plan is that Carl wanted to put in the minutes that he mentioned the town plan and how the tree plan He felt fits into the town plan Yeah, yeah, so that was the other addition to the minutes You okay with that Yeah, cuz you're Yes, oh we are Carl is feeling that he really wants to have that in a minute what he said so that's fine Okay, so I mean I so I you made a motion to continue my motion with the other with the new added changes I'll amend it to add the added changes Okay, who's a second me? I was in favor of approving the April 18th minutes. Please say aye. Hi. Hi. The eyes appear to have as you do have Okay So we should probably say something about Gina being here. This is your first meeting Everyone recognizes Gina being here We want to be our best behavior tonight Okay, so we did a minute we have another set of minutes don't we? Oh, yeah Well, that's right April 20 right here, and this is very short I'll second that Any further comment? Also table, please say hi. Hi. Hi The eyes appear to have it. They do want it. Okay The minutes are done public comment public Not it Okay Let's go on to the next item, which is be discussion of revolving loan fund program and Rebecca Schrader is here revolving loan fund advisor. She is here. Hi Rebecca So You were on the floor so to speak All right, so When last we met Or at least when last I met with you we had talked about some options for the revolving loan funds since we had de-obligated the funds from the state sort of I Guess business Fund that they had started at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, but then When a number of other federal and state programs came in place It was kind of redundant and obsolete so So we took that money back. And so now we are still back to around 73,000 and We had come up with some Proposals that I then checked with the state on to see about their feasibility. So the first one was The question of whether we could do a no-interest loan to CV fiber for Basically as kind of a way to allow them to get started on work In Anticipate and then they would pay back that loan when the town received Arpa fund its next round of ARPA funds And they would use those ARPA funds to pay back their revolving loan fund So With that there are it is possibly possible There are a number of Other requirements that we would have to meet to be able to use the money for that so since this comes from a community development block grant It would have to serve the people that it serves and beneficiaries would have to be 51% of them would have to fall in the low to moderate income and if the funds were going to be used for construction there are a number of Requirements around the construction process that the state would be involved in oversight and review for environmental and Construction engineering issues Which they I would imagine they already are to some degree because I think there's already some federal funds You know that CV fiber is working with but we would have to get signed on to those and and have The ACCD folks sign up on those as well. So The question I guess would be is if it's worth if you think it's worth that Work to Figure out and basically we would need to know exactly what the purpose of the funds would be So if the purpose of the funds would be used for Like design then we wouldn't have to meet those environmental review Requirements we would still have to meet the The population requirements. So what we would need from CV fiber is a Map, you know, a site map of where they're planning on putting the first miles of fiber and then Analyzing those census tracts to see if they're 51% low to moderating Okay, so I think I was a proponent of that when you were left with us and I reached out to CV fiber both by email and by telephone And I didn't get any response to My suggestion that we might use this money for them. So I don't know why that was It's possible that they don't need it a new organization Do they have a new director now since last fall? Yeah, I think the executive director just started maybe last week Was it that recent? Okay. So, you know, maybe another outreach would yield better results, but Just thinking aloud given their broad mandate to provide fiber to the whole region and The fact that they're going to put it first in the areas that are under served not by income But by existing internet connections I'm not sure that it would be easy for them to meet that to that mandate of 51% being Certain income level well plus the fact is you're Predicating that on the ARPA money coming in We don't even know if we can do that. Yes, so it's like Sounds like it sounds like I mean it sounds like that would be a huge pain. I mean from what you describe it like, okay It may be doable, but it sounds like a huge pain for seventy four thousand dollars on a multi Gagillion dollar Enterprise and I you know, I don't see the value in that Right, we would need a lot of information from them, too It would be it would be a burden. You know the time burning on our end and theirs. Yeah There's always strings, you know, multiple strings you have and it's a loan to pay back Yeah, so they probably get probably getting loans from other source They're getting I'm thinking a lot of money from some bill The idea was that yes, they could promised all this money or or it's been dangled in front of them very enticingly But how much do they actually have to be doing the work right now? Well, it sounds like this would be a far reach Let's wait and see if you're interested Yeah So what was the next thing on your agenda, so we'll put that in the shelf for a moment, okay So then some of the other things that we had talked about were things that would Would be related to housing Specifically Some of the things we had talked about were related to rental housing But I think it's a good idea to maybe just step back and Talk about so the you know the basically the The funds can go in in one of three directions One is for you know the the municipality can use it for public projects, which is what the you know the internet One would have been it can be used for housing or it can be used for to support small businesses and in our Last conversation it sound it seemed like and as most of you know the the revolving loan fund Discussions about the revolving loan fund have kind of gone round and round and round for years But the loan fund has not necessarily revolved so What some of the discussions that we had had have gone back and forth like do we want to be focused on small business Do we want to be focused on housing and It sounded like people were Leaning more towards housing When we met last time and we had talked about two possibilities one being a mini-grant program for landlords to To do energy efficiency projects for rental housing Which would then benefit the tenants who are often paying you know if the tenants are paying the utilities Then that's an ultimate benefit for them And then we had also talked about a security deposit grant or no interest loan program Either of those might be are probably eligible for the funds But what we get back to is the issue of capacity So if we do either of those programs the town then has to run it So that means you know time on the treasure time on You know you'd want to You would need to put up put together a committee again Come up with an application process Etc. Etc. So In the past we had talked about when we were looking at small business possibilities working with possibly community capital Vermont Or another loan fund that works with small businesses to do that sort of work If we want to go to housing route there are also organizations like downstreet and That kind of thing that also do that kind of work and so in my conversations with the folks at the state They were really suggesting that we find a An organization like downstreet and one of the things that they're going to be doing for us is putting together a Group of Organizations that we could choose from that would be good, you know that do similar work with other revolving loan funds and And then we would assign the funds to them and What would happen is for the first two years They those funds would definitely be dedicated for East Montpelier residents and then after that They would not necessarily be dedicated for East Montpelier residents, but East Montpelier residents would still be you know open to apply for them and So then what that would do is it would put the town and and me and You know the role of the revolving loan fund in terms of the town's responsibility it would put that much more in the arena of marketing and Sharing information so maybe I set up a table a town meeting day when you would put something in the signpost we have Presence on the website where we explain Here are the things that you can apply for and here's how you go and apply for them But we're not doing all the administration of actually running the loan fund which historically East Montpelier which and they're not alone in that Just doesn't really have the capacity to do because it's a lot to ask of volunteers and it's also a lot to ask as an additional duty for for employees of the town so So my recommendation would be if you if you want to go a housing route, which I think you know just I think housing is it has always been a big issue, but it's increasingly difficult to come by in this day and age that We should pursue Finding an organization assigning the funds to them and then I could come back with Well, I would come back with that organization They would do a proposal and and present before the select board and then the next step after that would be for me to come back and say Here is my plan for or my ideas for How we make sure that people know this money is there so they can actually get access to it Give the money or explore the possibility of giving the money to an organization that's going to target housing That's what we so choose and Then he's my player has a priority for two years. You said or is that how they all work? Yeah This organization would not be down the street It would be a community organization that down the street would help us identify is that correct? No, it might be down street So the the grants management folks at a CCD Would help me in identifying which organization would be best for For assigning the funds and so that might be down street And there might be some other options as well. She so Cassie from I can't think we're last name right now but she's gonna get back to me with with a list of organizations that would be that would be potential and then I'll reach out to them to come up with a Proposal for the board They would make that proposal you could vote to assign the funds then and then the next step after that would be to come up with a Kind of marketing and communications plan for it to make sure people know the funds are there Especially in that first two years so that we can really make sure that East Montpelier Residents can get a good shot at it. Yeah That's a good plan because we don't have the resources obviously to administer the money, right? So if we give it to another organization that has a resource to do that That's the way to go right and what can these my play could still take advantage of it What would you be in this proposal that got can they do we need to I think so Okay, something changed in the audio here in the room, which yeah, what made us Triggers are concerned. Yes, so Do you need any input tonight from the select board as you go out on this quest for organizations to sign the money to as to whether we would prefer this security deposit loan grant program or the mini grants for energy efficiency No, not necessarily I just need to know that housing it if we want to go to housing versus small business That's really the the umbrella and then we can You know once the organization is identified we can let them know these were the the plans that we had come up with Yeah, I Think that housing direction is what we feel would be the best direction at this moment and Thank you. I think I think you're on the track that will work for us So we don't because we want to be able to give this money to a worthy organization that's going to do Housing as we perceive it and we don't have the resources obviously do that ourselves So I think this is the best way to To move the money on instead of just sitting there and we have to do that Well, that's I You don't have a problem at all, right? Okay, we have two other members tuning in. What do you think Amy and Judith? I think it makes sense to explore organizations that might be able to Funnel the funds. I think housing is a critical need and I think we have money to help Address the shortage. I think that's a great thing to do And the money's been sitting there for a while. That's from like for how many years I mean, it's it's become like this Yeah, it's become this seventy four thousand dollars all the trust we can't get But yeah, I think it's a good idea to explore that You can keep that money forever as long as it goes in and out and it's useful the right thing and No, that's not hard because almost eight hundred thousand worth of that money. Wow, and they've been using it since 1988 But this all signed in a way, right? I know that That's when we assigned away the Fairmont ones. Yeah turned into good money for a community gap, right? Yeah, this seems like the since we're never Okay, we could Find a worthy recipient any small play, but we don't have the machinery You don't have a policy in place you don't have any applications at place You don't have any We don't have the machinery to do it. So let's move it on to somebody. It does. Yeah, it sounds like a great idea Yeah, so I think we have board consensus. I don't want to speak that term But everyone seems to be on board for backup. So I applaud your efforts and Move us in that direction, please Okay, great. So I'll I'll work with a a CCD to get a list of organizations and Hopefully in the next month or two we can have them come give a proposal and then And then we should hopefully be able then to kick off Kind of communications and marketing about it With the new fiscal year Yes Yes, sounds good Okay If you need anything more from us, just let us know Thanks Becca, thank you for all your work. Thank you a lot of work Do we need to take a pause for the orca books? Okay all right, so We're gonna move to item C then since we're done with Rebecca and get a lot of work for us But thanks a lot. We didn't burn her with a CV fiber thing Okay, the next item is C is discussion proposed amendments to the East Montpellier van use and development regulations so I Trust everyone's had a chance to read over the Regulations or the changes or not Peruse them. Yeah, I've got lots of them here in front of me So So the board Annotated memos does that this is designed to be an initial general discussion. Yeah, let's complete the board should determine the next steps for this process Yeah, so how do we want to go about this today? Well, we first wanted the board to Anybody so chose to go through the regulations and they had questions and Comments so we want to go through that first so everyone had a chance to familiarize ourselves with the plane other changes So we had homework to do Have you been working on John? I have copious notes in here, but I didn't find anything any major issues far as I was concerned Well, you you did comment the last time we talked about this is how you didn't realize he's my failure had such Invasive invasive I think that they tell you when you take down your snow fence and which That's not part of this so it's all I don't care. It's already there It's it's yeah, perhaps it hasn't I mean is there something we should take out to no I'm not invasive. No, I took my soul fence down today. I was a day late I think April 30th, right But I figured that Bruce would be up there with a big sticker to stick on my door saying your violation of the zoning regulations for Stofentus Okay, but he started me and that Bruce Doesn't like to do enforcement Try not to be in polite and say something rude, but he's not going to go around with big stick Okay, he's not going to but we have a new town administrator that may like that activity So perhaps we should take some of that stuff out That's right, but maybe our new zoning administrator will like that. So maybe we should take out various enforcement Possibilities in there. That's true You probably don't want to go down that road. No Well, we don't want to go down the road if we have another zoning administrator thinks that should be enforcing Well, if you want the planning commission to go down that road, you might want to tell them that But you might want to give them some parameters Yeah, what to touch and what not to touch. Yeah. Yeah, so They need to make some changes hold another hearing Send us vote on it. Send us the changes. Did you is there anything that anybody found in there? that was overly invasive besides snow fences and And you're any fences you build you got to make sure that you have The front side facing out and the backside facing in you reverse that it could be in trouble No, that's that's a different thing. Yes, right. Okay, but we'll just talk about fences first So There is an opening there that someone want to enforce Fences that have the board turned the wrong way. Yeah, that could happen. That's why I took that's how I took I think we should mention As I'm not in favor of that So I'm saying is we have a zoning administrator that doesn't like to go around looking at fences in the wrong side of the Board you may not even know the difference, but the next only administrator May choose to go around looking at fences and they may know the difference between the board that's turned the wrong way What do you think? You don't care You're not really I Don't like to leave my still fence up here around anyway Because I didn't mull around it I Think we should make that comment. It's a little invasive I don't think we should make that comment. I guess I think it might have been John or someone talking about I mean, I don't know that we should predict or anticipate what the new zoning administrator whether he or she their comfort level with various varying aspects of the Bylaws, I mean that if if their job is to enforce things then that's their job We shouldn't we shouldn't wait to kind of You know see how they feel about it Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying, but I Think you know for most folk it's like John that oh golly. I forgot in your couple of days late and no one cares But you know just having the requirement for how it should go up It's you know what we hope people do Obviously not everyone will but the hope is that they do and if you don't put in what you want people to do People might not do it or might keep it up There's no fence up all summer So I'm not really joking it's like if you have things in that plan they're supposed to be in force Like the snow fence. Do you want that in there because someone may want to enforce? And if you have it in there, then they will enforce So let's take a step back. Okay, what we're doing right now is we're reviewing proposed changes that a planning commission has given to us right and What you're suggesting is that there are other additional changes that? That you've identified that you think maybe should happen Oh, I'm do we need to have that discussion tonight or is that I mean we have forever to talk with the planning commission Maybe we should be creating a parking lot and say okay planning commission Here are some other issues that we'd like you to take a look at for revising these. I just was Commenting on what John commented on that if there's enforcement aspects to the plan that we haven't followed in the past I'm saying beware because enforcement actions can be enforced, especially if you have them in the plan and And we haven't always enforced things in these popular but they're in here And none of these things you've identified are proposed new changes from the planning commission I don't know if they are not no, they're not they were just saying hey They're already like we've already right moved beyond those but we can go on in the discussion because you have set back We'll just keep that in the back shelf for the moment. Yeah All right, so let's let's say what you're gonna say. Yeah We have half an hour to bat this around so it's fine So setbacks is something that I have talked with the planning commission about for a number of times And I have been Concerned that it's illegal to build things in Montpelier East Montpelier that looked like East Montpelier does right now because of setback requirements What and my personal example with this was that when I had a renovation done at my house in 2003 then to work on the back deck The back deck to make it smaller actually but to do work on the back deck I required a waiver because the back deck was too close to the rope And You know that I was able to get the waiver because it had been an interesting thing there and so and so forth There's nothing that I had done to aggravate the condition but you know people shouldn't have to go in to get waivers to work on their back decks because they're too close to the road and They took that into account and They reduced it the setback requirements and I want to understand what they have done here Apparently, it's the same core all zones. So I'm just looking at page seven okay and it's talking about Just right at the top notwithstanding the front setback set forth in subsection D The front setback for all of us should be the existing distance from the point of the dwelling that is closest to the road right away If it's less than that standard providing that the lock-in existence prior to September 15th 1982 and a few other things related to that so one of my questions is it says the dwelling and I What comes to mind for me is a garage on my road that was built originally quite close to the road and There were some problems given the zoning regulations and the setback with authorizing Rebuilding it and I'm wondering and Brett Bruce you can tell me Whether this new language would have affected that situation at all So no, okay, what you're looking at is a revision of The relaxation that was put in in zone for zone D About 20 years ago. Okay expanded to zone E So both zone D and zone E for loss that were smaller than three acres What they're doing this time around is Taking that concept implying it to all zones. Good. What it's saying is if you're a Development house like what you've talked about Your front setback will be your front setback. Whatever it is now It will be That's your dwelling setback, right now a garage is sitting on the right Whereas your house is your front setback would now be Your front house basically right now. It's still true that much of your house is not Good always no longer be true right you would now be conforming to the front setback because you can go to the closest setback to the road of Properties already in non-conformance Yeah, I meant I meant the building that's in non-conformance you can go back to the most non-conformity it's proper Now conforming because it is what it is. Right. Yeah, the problem that Carl is saying though, this is garage He's still not He still can't it's just the dwellers. It's not the accessory building but it's pre-existing. Yeah, so Non-conformity this is a situation that probably shouldn't be discussed too much because of enter DRB. There was a threatened Okay, so let that one go a little bit, but it does not change that situation at all Because that is a garage versus And then some of us have bars which are closer to the road. Yeah that people build barns close to roads Yeah, I go back in the day. Yeah, so it doesn't affect that It doesn't it would affect that part of the barn that is behind The front line of the dwelling. Okay, but it wouldn't affect the part that is Closer to the road. Okay, what if hypothetically the barn happens to be across the street from the road? I mean it would apply the to the setback of My across the street. Okay. Yeah, so if it's non-conforming now it's non-conforming You wouldn't it wouldn't apply and you can't make it more non-conforming Without a way But if you're an agriculture, I don't get a waiver I go if I'm in the town right away And it might I don't perform for setback I go to the state Because That I have to go to the Secretary of Agriculture and they can approve it or disapprove right And they've always approved it and they've come out and we've had discussion and I've built in a lots of buildings additions But the so-called normal folks, right don't have that opportunity. No, but they can go to the most And what's special about September 15th 1982 that was the date of a amendment to the zone breaks That's the one that was chosen for that those updates in the early 2000s that Created this in first place and as I said, they just pulled this forward and Expanded its application because you can't go back You can't go and suddenly make you can make everybody on conforming But you can't make a move everything if you if you change rules and suddenly make people non-conforming Yeah, and so that's why they always have like a major date when that Regulation was passed and that was when we last altered our Districts, you may not remember this at all. We had a lot more zone II so the seven-acre zone and we Created a big chunk on route 14 that went from zone II to zone D and that initial foray into this clause Was for zone D so they targeted that date when those rates went live To be the The start date of all of this So, why would we not want to say? Everybody who's built right now is conforming Because they're not conforming but they can be an existing non-conformity Right, why would we want to say that somebody whose house was in place in September 14th 1982 Closer to the road than the official setback distances Fine, you're good to go but somebody who moved in the next year in a house. Sorry. You're not conforming That house should have been conforming when it was built right after 82 the concept It was even they caught they chose that date because that was the last time they altered the dynamic for the districts Everything before you to this applies. They might have been Actors should apply the rules that we have to apply. Yeah, okay, okay, but but Cal and I'm not trying to single you out, but you have talked about the setbacks are 75 feet from the center of the road was Not a good idea, right, and I agree with you on right, but did we address that in this? Document. Yeah. Yeah, so now the doc so now the setback what? This depends on the zone here choose a zone. Okay, what about zoning? Setbacks have been changed to 40 feet from center lines, right there's 75. Yep Side and rear right now the 50. Yeah, those seem reasonable. Yeah, that's a lot better. Yeah. It is like great Yeah, so 40 feet from center line is essentially Pretty close pretty close. Yeah, because the travel with them roads are 20 25 So that was your you're already around 15 people trying to get the road edge of the road Mm-hmm. So if it's 40 or 25 feet on the edge of travel, you have to shovel as much snow for your driveway, right So that's good. Yes, but what about a different zone? Well, that's as bad as it's going to be because I think it's better. Oh, okay Well, I'm just taking personal Zone V is the same. Yep. Mm-hmm Zone C has the same 40 foot with 15 foot side and rare. Wow. Good zone from 25, right? What's it 25 is 40 and 15? Yes. Mm-hmm. It was 25 and zone a It's also 40 15 and then you have the new zones that have once almost even know you 40 and 15 for the one acre version of it. Mm-hmm, and then the smaller ones have 40 and 10 All right, well, I'm in the second good first the second one Okay Now the lot size in zone E what have they figured nothing happened there. Nothing's happened yet. No, no There was intentionally no changes to lot sizes in the existing zones. Okay at this point Yeah, we did was overlay the that village master plan Map dimension. Okay over the existing zones. Yeah area. Yeah, and those are the only one to change Change so yeah, so anything outside of that overlay, right? It's still the same as it was for Lot size. Yes, not for these other standards that we just know. Yeah, I get that Lot size was a concern of mine. Yeah, they weren't trying to touch that in this. That was what miscarried the whole thing Last night. Yeah. So they ignored it for this time. They're still working on it in a side effort. Okay. Yeah, cuz The seven acre in zone E was a good idea Sort of well back in the day everybody was doing 10 acres. Remember I Know that well really what they're trying to do though to have the seven acres is to get away from Chopping up ag fields in one acre chunks The thing is that most of land ag land in East my player is now protected It's either in a land trust or in current use. So that's a pretty small risk And the problem with the seven acres is then farmers sold off 10 acre chunks or seven acre chunks And then people put houses right in the middle of the field, right? So it didn't work especially from a farming point of view all of a sudden you're stuck with trying to mow around Driveways power poles this and that the field is almost useless, but the landlord is like fuck. I mean, excuse me We've got like, you know 10 acres along what are we gonna do here? Right, and I'm like I can't get around the driveway or I can't get around the power pole I can't spread manure in your front yard. So Something needs to be done with no that was that was a big mistake doing 10 acre lots because like you said exactly Yeah, lots would have worked out better because then you could have just had you could have had Zones where you might put in like five houses at five or or one you can have allow one acre zoning in Zone E But have requirements. They can't put them in the middle of the field just like you objected to that subdivision The farm I own on Clark Farm they put the lot right in the middle of the field and now the driveway We'll go right into the middle of the field the field all of a sudden you can't use it And maybe you went to the planning Commission DRV hearing about that said can't you cite it differently, but you weren't successful, but we need to have Requirements or conditions on development in ad areas, but make the loft size small What I worked out, but anyway, they haven't done it yet. So I was just curious about that Anyway, I don't want to monopolize any waste time here. So what what do we have? What else we have? Well, I have additional questions, but I So I'd like to give other people a chance. Yeah, Amy and Judith what you have some comments I'm frankly. I'm still kind of digesting it to be honest Okay, and Amy are you still digesting likewise? Yes I have some questions about section 3.11, which is on page 27 parking and loading requirements specifically about the parking requirements What pages in on sorry I'm gonna try to read it this way what Existing problems is this design better question for Zach when he comes back if you want him to okay, but the planning philosophy around parking spaces has changed the the Isolated, you know one and a half spaces for this two spaces for that format is no longer in both and There are more act to go more free-form using street parking using public parking that's available that type of thing So you're not going to get those long charts that you used to get and what they're trying to do is kind of do up a piecemeal approach They're keeping the old rags, but trying to tone down is it table 3.1 an example They're trying to tone it down they didn't go whole hog, okay, but they're trying to tone it down and then if you read the the new village Don't have the names down yet. The the zones that cover this slot. Okay, there's extra Discussion on that. Okay. So as I said, they're they're trying to kind of have it both ways They're working toward but they're just playing with this right now Okay, so things have been just turned down, but it's not parking space story So basically what you're saying is more flexibility than someone comes in Applying for a business permit or whatever about the parking quite because the parking requirement was some Honest before I'm trying to because I know that we've had discussion I'm making place on the DRV our planning commission people come in and we're like, hey Oh, do you have any parking places or do you have enough parking for blah, blah, blah? So that's I think is what Bruce is saying is that now we have the flexibility to say yes You can have your business. You can use some different parking. Well, I will I will reread this with that in mind Then because what jumped out at me was one. I wasn't familiar with the discussion of parking problems and oh, yeah But to I'm in line with that movement in parking philosophy that Bruce described Yes, and I want to avoid things like there is that silly case I'm not sure how it was resolved a month earlier years ago where a homeowner on Main Street wanted to rent out some rooms as offices to somebody and She was required to put in parking for them to get that permission She said well look could be somebody you want to have a walkable downtown could be somebody who's walking to work Right and or you know if somebody's not walking to work I could rent parking from a church that right doesn't have a lot that's not used much on weekdays and At least initially there's pushback from the city. I want to avoid People came in For permit to have a business and we're all over about the parking And so what they're trying to do is make it easier for business to have a business in these month Without their owners parking they just need to come up maybe with an idea Yeah, well parking there needs to be a conversation about is what can I say? Yeah, but there's flexibility within that Yeah, so my suggestion if you really want to see what they've changed is to compare charts, right? Okay, because it that's when you'll see that they've tried to Tell it down. Okay, but it's certainly not gone. Yeah That's a good catch on that because that that has been an issue Oh So I see there's some comments or changes to the PRD PUD aspect Well, that was the number one change what you just said The PRD is gone. Okay. It's all PUD. Okay, but yes there there's been some refinement because ours was kind of Lucy goosey, okay, but it's some structure to it Can you tell me what that is so that maybe could could somebody explain what plan unit development is Yeah, so it's the the same concept that we've discussed before that that you want to have Ways around the strict regulations when there are more Appealing options for Condos, yeah multifamily residences any of that type of thing Yeah, or even the Shapiro Yeah Friedman Dylan's road thing. Yep That's PRD back in the day when PRD was still acceptable to say PUD is planned unit development. That's the phrase now. It was planned residential development before PRD And that's not acceptable to say that It's just been overrun. Yeah So one size fits all now rather than trying to figure out what's a different plan unit development Yeah, used to have commercial aspects and the plan residential didn't okay now. They just wipe that all out. Okay, they're all one, okay But really what we had before was just that very simple basically a density waiver If you wanted to do 10 lots in 40 acres in Sony You had to do the math see if you can do a PRP Planned unit development time And fit it in This is a little more refined. It gives more Expectations on PUDs Nothing, I don't think it changes one with how it affects us. Okay, it's just Altered the way it's phrased and the way it's organized Okay, so look at all of the old section you'll see a lot of it's been cut and pasted from X to Y Okay, but it's still there It's just organized differently. Okay, so just to just to be clear on PUD Say we did it in zone C, which is three acre minute Would you have to have three acres for each unit that you were putting in one corner of the bigger piece of property? No, you'd have to have the density Available, so if you had a hundred acres, yeah, and you wanted to put in ten units. Yeah Yeah, it's 30 30 acres one put in ten units and you want to put them all in one that one corner Yes, could you do it have the density available for the three acres on to do? Yeah, and you have the flexibility under the PUD to put it in one place to put it in one But you're still saying you have to have the acreage Excuse me, there's someone in the waiting room. Oh I can't expect me to talk. No So I would think that One reason you wouldn't want you wouldn't you might have wastewater issues anyway having a clump together too as well Well, no, but that's why you gotta wastewater requirement. That's why you have to have a PUD You have to have the gross acreage So I'm not sure that I Guess it's okay, but on the other hand it doesn't lend itself to putting in Affordable housing in one unit on a smaller piece of land. You may not ever do that anyway because of constraints for the soils Yeah, but just say you met the wastewater requirement. You could put ten units on three acres So this is the variance provision never has been This is a way to cluster or yes, you know, I get low through some of the standards, right? So you mentioned the density bonus that white lines got you're saying that's out now that You'd have to read it because there's a few sections, but it's different now And again, you'd have to I love this The way they phrased it they have the general standards laid out and You can have a density bonus for The village zones have one kind of density bonus which can be significant up to a hundred percent. So basically double the number of units non village you can get a density bonus of up to 25 percent That is what they got they only needed a very tiny amount right they were within an acre and a half of being One thing they did wipe out and this was a discussion that took a while to get through We used to have an expectation of a greater density bonus for affordable housing and that's gone Mostly because we couldn't police Concept, right? Yeah, where's the definition for affordable basically and how do you know how do you keep it that way? So they toss that they made the village far more flexible and then the outline kind of held the same Okay, bonus. Okay. All right Well, that's pretty helpful We probably ought to move on that people waiting but It was a good session. Yeah, so what's that step? We Pc chairs act Sullivan to attend. Oh, he's already No, he's scheduled to attend if we determine the So the way that's playing out they have their town plan hearing on Wednesday Thursday on the fifth He may be ready on the 16th to pass off the town plan So if you want him to if you have something for him for the zoning regs and want him to Go into that band You very welcome to be here. Okay, so the town plan changes Changes changing amendment revision. Are they once more specific to the cell count? Yes Yes, there's a tiny change in here, but it's right. No account right the bulk of it is in the town plan that new section So he's gonna present it to the board Assuming everything goes well. Yes on Thursday. Yeah, he'll come on the 16th to present it basically pass it off to you Yes, yeah So if we've got questions about this at that point we can ask you could Okay, yeah Fallback plan if he doesn't If it doesn't come in he's not ready on the 16th or wait when he's ready to come in with a plan And then do it at the same time. Okay. Yes, two furs are more efficient Wait, does that mean and if Could be another couple weeks could be another couple months if the town thing well as the town plan thing goes south Yeah, yeah, we ought to bring that one. Yeah. Yeah. No we do. Yeah. Yeah, but my guess is it is South they seem to have come to a compromise position And I thought you were gonna say can you then put them on do will tracks going forward or do you have a single track going forward? Yeah, so why but I think that the town plan things gonna come to fruition. Yeah, and that's gonna work if it doesn't work Then we'll have him in Everyone's on board with that Okay, the next thing 730d discussion on East monthly or fire department projects consideration of each monthly or fire department fire engine purchase plan Ty's here You need I Okay, so you won the command man or something Yeah, so we put in an official request for East Montpere to Allocate the funds that were voted at town meeting this year towards the purchase of the truck Mm-hmm I don't have the official number with me. It was one thirty one thirty three three three three That's it for some It's available for transferred any time Oh, no, I'm just reading off the memo and that's in line with the email to be going back and forth For just needs to determine how it wants to handle this transfer to you All right, we kind of outlined the timeline on the truck. Yep in the email that I said, yep What'd you say want to say June? There are options for The method or the timing of the payment has the are you looking for us to make a recommendation? Are you making a recommendation because when we're going to have the funds available? Kind of changes depending upon the method or the timing of payment I think when you're looking for money, huh? Well, there's so there's so in the email the option is to Pay for the chassis when the chassis is delivered to toy And that number is in there. I think I agree with that in the times Yeah, I'm one of the papers. Yeah, my apologies. I didn't bring my papers with me. One of the papers had the About was like a hundred and nineteen thousand You should have two pages yet the email and I sent you On the bottom there was a Okay, so you were looking for the money for me spot there to pay for the chassis we came up Well, that's one of the options. So if you we said so we have I mean that gives a little bit of a discount back off the chassis portion There's a little bit of savings. I think it's maybe a little less than three thousand dollars. Yeah Other than that, you know in terms of paying for the whole truck We can pay for the whole thing a hundred percent on delivery with no chassis payment But I think we feel it's better to pay for the chassis payment when that's delivered and then pay for the remaining balance when the truck is Delivered, what is that likely to be delivered? You know The chassis is the unknown, but they're estimated they're estimating 450 days from now Yes, I guess we can probably come up with it by then No, we can come up with it right now So if it works well for you to give us some money when the chassis comes in right and you'll get a discount on that Sounds like that's the best way to do it. We have the money the anticipation is the chassis may have an early 2023 delivery, okay, is what they're anticipating right now. Yeah, it'd be a 2024 chassis Yeah, and that's what they feel the timeline might be and just to be clear You're talking about the delivery to them to that. Yeah, where the place is going to build up That's the trial right so how much was how much is that I think it was a hundred and nineteen thousand right around there So that would be the option for that and then we pay that portion off the chassis done And then the rest is paid upon delivery of the truck right the biggest piece again as we discussed at the joint meeting was the payments occurring Before the end of FY 23 or the towns allocating the monies Internally in such a way that it doesn't have to be re-voted for allocation distribution. You mean allocated I don't think it has to be re-voted as a brief. We don't yeah callous might. Yeah, but callous is callous right, but I'm speaking of the whole we're not gonna pay for the whole chassis Cal is gonna come up with some money to why they can come up with the money when they when the trucks deliver They could do it Now we have money. I think that's a good idea right you too and gives cows more time They need all the time let's take back them now and say when the chassis is You need a motion on it Well, just so you understand how this is playing out Callous declined to discuss it after last meeting for whatever reason we're going to a meeting next week Oh, so the thought was they would have already handled this issue before we had to it didn't happen So price essentially you're going to be giving them Your game plan and they'll play off of that. That's what we need to do Judith you had brought these questions up. Does that help you out at all? Yeah, so you're saying that when the chassis that we What you're asking or the consensus is that? We give our share of the chassis payment whenever that is within a hundred eighty days or early 2023 whenever that comes, correct It would be upon delivery of the freight letter chassis to talk to toy And and so and the remainder of our share of the contribution would be paid When the final delivery of the complete truck or are you asking for our whole shebang when the you're paying for the chassis? Well, I think it's whatever is the cleanest option for the town. We don't have consideration either way specifically on that We can We're not looking to sit and bank the money that's in our side thinking we're going to gain interest off of it We can take that entire payment and pay the hundred thirty three three three two toying At the delivery of the chassis as well, so that just basically transfers through You guys are done with the payment versus having to do one allocation Then come back later on do another allocation for the remaining so then call us picks up the rest and then call us would pay their Portion when we pay ours it just gives cows more time. Yeah, because we're not going to sit there and Worry about cows to share of the chassis. We just need to pay for the chassis with our money And that's fine. Well, the question is do we do it two payments Bruce? It's the 119 versus and then another 14,000 again. Who cares? I don't care It is easier to do it once that's all just do it once. Yeah, so we're just Pay the bill when it comes to you and we'll get a discount on that by paying it a little bit or so Do we a consensus or a vote? Give the one thirty three to fire fire they'll take the 119 and pay for the chest It gives Calis more time to come up with their money in the ducks in a row so they can pay their money when the whole bill comes in They don't have to pay One-third of the chassis when it comes in that's a pain in the neck I think that's nothing to us because we have the money sitting there We're not gonna go chase Calis for one third of the 119 and they don't want to do it either neither We shouldn't have to read it So we're gonna give the one thirty three the fire department when they need it They'll pay for the chassis out of our money and when the whole bill comes to the road chase Calis for the remainder Correct. Yes. Yes. Yeah, and our and then we'll have our note that's coming from North. Yes It's just an easy clean way for us to do it and then you're done coming to us And you don't have to worry about up that course of the money We should we should be able to give a 30-day notice I believe on delivery of the truck time. You should have that Narrow doubt close enough at that point when that chassis would be yeah, but the concept I Personally think that's what we should do. I don't know how anyone else thinks about it. It's an easy way It's a good plan for you. I have no problem No Cal will come up with the money, but it gives them some time they may have to buy all the money Well, they don't even have a treasure now, right? Right So they've got 450 Well, how many days do they have to come up with the money for the bill? When's that gonna happen? Well, I think so based on the discussion Well, so the final bill would be upon delivery. Yes, so that's all gonna come from yeah, you know They could build it depending on where they're at as fast as 90 days after the chest. Oh, okay Whether that really occurs that quickly or not going to so we're saying roughly 500 days or something That's what they're right now in the contract 50 days But the gifts Cal's time to borrow the money and goes through their painful process, right? No, yes, but This is an easy way for us to get the bill going if you don't agree with it It's a clean way I think you remember from the discussion that the the joint meeting was you know again They need to be able to allocate those monies to be whatever fashion they need to within 23 that's obligated right. Yes Insecure whatever loan or no. Yeah, it's easier for them actually because then they don't have to be splitting up the bill, right? Exactly. They don't have to come up with Bob on and blah, blah later on Shaker Lee will go bust and they won't be able to finish or they won't be able to get the supplies needed to complete The truck so that we're left to kind of we we have a nice chassis, but nothing else The answer to your question is we don't feel that there's a risk Necessary if we were to take out a bond it would require an additional $4,500 or so if the towns would have to split Yeah So So they get it so you can have a show So you can have an insurance bond But it'd be another 4,000 bucks the entire But they don't feel it that he just said he didn't feel that it was a risk once you're still gonna have to pay You could still okay, so you don't have to pay for chestnut content You could wait until a whole truck is built. It's just that you don't get the discount on Okay, so wasn't it but he mentioned a bond Performance bond probably yeah, I guess insurance bond. There isn't there is a bond It's in this document somewhere He gave us prices for it. Oh For four thousand two hundred forty three dollars if you get insurance to cover the to cover in case they do fail He's gonna cost you another four grand Yeah, that's When was the last time something failed? Probably middle-sex fire equipment or somebody well, isn't it more You The chassis will be under their insurance. Yeah, and it's and that's when we're paying Yeah, so there's gonna be multiple protection things in there at that time But I guess what happens if they don't build the part that goes on top of the chassis We're gonna go out of business. They go out of business. What happens then? Well, you still have the chassis you won't paint anything We have what he sent out and it's in the it's on the site. Yeah, it's just the proposal That's all we've seen Yeah I don't think they do I asked the same thing to Toby today and basically They're waiting to know What the timing is going to be that they can then go to? this company and get a iron-clad agreement Going forward. They don't even know the price right now. The price has probably gone up I'd be shocked if it hasn't so we'll wait till we get a contract. Don't I know I wouldn't There what they're trying to do is get the approvals and then they'll go back nothing's gonna change Right that the chassis is gonna cost them the 120 range, right? And nothing is going to change the fact that they're gonna have a three hundred thousand dollar payment You know 90 days later or whatever it is, right? But we could approve the concept of prepaying and our money going in that's all we're doing It's 450 days away. Yeah, and we can iron out details later I'm just looking for on board Would like to handle this business this way I? Personally think it's a clean way to do it and we'll get a discount by paying for the chassis and that would work quite well But it's over. It's a year and a half away, and I'm on board with it. Yeah, I'm on board with the concept that's that's all We need it. Yeah, I am I am too and I'd love to when they either even have a draft The contract to have an opportunity to see it Okay, so it sounds like some of us on board you're not Well, they're still going to have to pay the bill when it comes in they have to pay them There's still another bill. This is the first bill the first stage Which we can get discount on if we pay the money It's a easy clean way for us and if we pay for it and if we pay for the chassis and that costs us say we end up spending a hundred and thirty three thousand dollars then then Calc will come up with Brett the other Half a hundred thirty two thousand the other part of this is remember what you're approving here Is that you're willing to give the hundred and thirty three three thirty three right at the time? The chassis is constructed right the bills of the chassis may be 140 right might be 120, right? It's right. It doesn't matter Calis can give their money at the same time to if they want to they want We're disagreeing for a time that we're gonna give the money right and I think that would work It would have worked out that way anyway I mean, they're not gonna pay the same time. He's not bill your pace probably ever Well, they will have to sooner or later at the end the old there is a bill ultimately that will come do and if we Haven't paid in the fashion that we're trying to do it We're still gonna have to pay the money then right but this is an easy way for the fire department to make a plan And get a discount and it's an easy way for us to Satisfy our obligation and I don't think it puts us any more at risk than if we paid waited till the end to pay and Then Calis didn't pay that It's fine with our money then we wouldn't with hold our money because you'd want to follow through with our With what we plan to do. Well, I don't think there's any risk at all with Calis pain It's just it delays the time that the fire department has to chase them for their money Right, you know, they're not gonna say they don't want to have to go to Calis say well We're gonna need 20,000 this day and then the rest of it then a cleaner way of doing is like Let's take you some up here's money when the chassis is ready. You're done Then we'll go to Calis to get the lump sum out of them and things do just easy for them Well, it's kind of it's it's Calis like board is harder to deal with yeah Yeah, and they don't want to go there and have multiple Money's coming from them. They would like to just get their money and they would like to just get our money Our money is easily had because we have it already. So and Calis has to get along Calis has to get a do a painful process. Anything that comes out of Calis is painful. We're trying not to be quite so painful Especially because alone and like you're still looking for a trip down treasure. Yeah, $500 bonus if you guys want to sign on a hundred $25,000 Well, Friday's not that good. So maybe I'll try okay, so So our most of us on board with this concept. Okay, because I like to move on to the next. I am I am And one two three three of us are So do you want to do a composite? We're through all of this or do you want if you need a motion for this? So make a motion No, yes We won't make a motion John can you make a motion? Oh God That the town of Eastmont clear contribute a hundred thirty three thousand three hundred thirty three dollars for the chassis payment on the new Firetruck when the bill when the when the when yeah when the bill comes to when Chassis delivered. Yes, the chassis bill And the chassis is delivered It won't come due until it is delivered Okay, there you go. All right Okay, yeah, when he is second, okay All those in favor, please say hi. Hi. Hi. The eyes appear to have if they do have Talk about people. Oh It's a good deliberation Yeah, okay And we can't talk about the I guess we can talk about these popular Mercy services bond remainder fund use. No, no, you got a different question first. No, okay You're also approving Oh up to the up to use of the capital reserve fund that will allow them to actually do this contract that we're talking about Because until then they don't have authority to actually use the capital reserve Yeah, so we need an amount. We have an approximate amount. That's why the up to okay Oh, okay. What's the amount? What's the up to the up to would be maybe 250 because they're a target right now is 425 or giving 200 Yeah, so if you approve it to 250, yeah, that gives them a little yeah, okay Okay, so what was an emotional like like to commit up to authorize this fire engine Up to 250,000 Authorize the fire department to purchase a fire Well, they need to use a catheter using 2,000 of the cap. Yeah, okay purchase of this point. So moved Perfect John, you did a really good job. Thanks Okay, so we need a second. Yeah, so what one of the things reflected on the other day For the people who are watching I think it'd be helpful to Actually take the motion before we go down. So Bruce, do you have a motion written down? Of course not. No, I have three words written down authorizing the popular fire department to Withdraw two hundred fifty thousand up to two hundred fifty thousand out of the capital reserve to pay for the new fire engine Out of their capital reserve. Okay Also, all right, all those in favor, please say out So the next thing was on their Request is using the remainder or some of the remainder for some paving and light fixtures So that's what I got at Bruce. I've read your second paragraph under that Annotated agenda a few times and maybe I've just read it quickly Simply yeah, usually we're the protocol was designed to handle invoices After a concept was already approved or the fire department just did it and then try to sell us on the Concept after they actually had the invoice in the hands This time they're they're back to trying to sell us on the concept so What we're looking at here is to prove conceptually the use of the bond fund for these two projects When the invoices come in that's when that fancy protocol we have as utilized So we talked a lot about the protocol the other day But it's clear they want approval ahead of time and this is gonna be one of those situations where they go ahead with the project and Then come to us after the fact to see if we'll allow the use of the Resurrect I think it makes total sense for us to give them a signal about the concept. Yeah me too Right if they might not do it if we don't yeah money. Yeah Doesn't fit in a budget right in the budget, right? I don't want to have them doing doing projects that aren't in their budget and then have us complain to them So cows doesn't have veto power they don't have veto power over the invoices when they come in right but Whether they have Doesn't matter again. Usually we do this together and they didn't want to be joking. Okay, so You're sending this signal as Carl said that you would either agree or don't agree And hopefully they'll follow suit So are we time this to stay within the 13,000 830 I would Well, actually do they have any kind of estimate what? Well, they told us 12,000 So up to 13,000 830. Yeah Yeah I mean, I haven't been out there in a while because I missed the last meeting I mean is I guess I would just trust that this was something I mean the fire station is pretty new I I mean it already needs to be repaved It's just one section that was never and it's basically Buddy and they can't really use it to store vehicles or for parking So it's just a small patch and the lighting is that they're you know, the Fluorescent lights and they want to get LED lights and okay some upgrades like that. Yeah, gotcha. Thank you An ESF what's that? Okay So The paving is to park the ATV trails. Mm-hmm. Yeah, or our TV or whatever you want. Yeah, right, but whatever Yeah, it's not gonna hurt anything. No, thank you pavement is good in the month There's mud Well, I know that So just out of curiosity you want to limit this to the amount they asked for Yes, no as opposed to the amount of what we have left because it'll spend it all anyway Yeah, yeah, so they gave us two numbers the sum of which I think is 12 3 if they spent all of it and then fun is gone. That's a good thing Well, I'd like to see it's been useful things. Well, they're there's spending for these two things But maybe the pavement comes in a little bit thicker or the light fixtures went up in price stuff goes up in price every day Sure, well payments probably gone up the price Come in their original quotes that they gave to us I have some money left over for do something else a thousand bucks. Are you kidding me? It's a pain in the neck No You like to have pain in that thing that things around I don't I like I like to pinch taxpayers Okay So either the motion's gonna read so up to 13,000 when I would advocate 13,000 830, but everyone has strong feelings about We're asking for 12 right? Yes. Yeah, three. No, I say 13 830 so I moved to grant permission to the fire department to use Up to 13,830 the total remaining ESF bond remainder fund for These two projects the paving and the light fixture upgrade. I'll second that Any further discussion? All of them favor, please say I all right. The eyes appear down as you have Okay, so are we done with the ESF? What's that you are that's what it looked like to me, okay? All right Let's move to the next item II discussion on proposed shade tree preservation plan We only put 10 minutes in here for this so Because you aren't discussing the plan, okay? You're discussing how you want to move forward with okay, okay? And whether you want to give a signal to the Committee yep as to how you're feeling because they're meeting on Thursday. Okay discuss the plan. Okay, so After last meeting just because I missed his comments, I had a conversation with Michael Dwayne and he had indicated that he would be meeting with Jeff and the gang To provide his input regarding kind of the concerns he had regarding the regulatory framework and having kind of the Predicate language in there before getting to the kind of regulatory language and I thought that was a good recommendation I would Think you know what I heard from members of the committee last time was that they will you know heard the some of the questions comments concerns of folk and are interested in You know perhaps making some changes and so I would I would leave it to the people who have put in a lot of time and work to see if They want to make any refinements improvements to the plan And I wouldn't you know, I would wait to till we receive Word back from them that they're ready for us to act on it. That's that's where I I'm leaning Okay You No opinion. No, not really. Oh, okay. That's right. It doesn't have a huge impact on me No, right I have thoughts about it, but I want to Everyone else thought they don't want to monopolize conversations. Well, one of the suggestions or one of the questions The annotated agenda is does the board want to craft the consensus opinion on the plan and send it to the committee? I think for us to come up with a consensus opinion would take a long time I Disagreements on the board. Yes, we do about it So I would like to see the committee wrestle with what they heard from us and others and And see if they can come up with a way forward. I like Paul's comments at the end where he was talking about the value of the input and There you know the plan not being set in stone and I'd like to see what they come up with So I just want to say a couple things about it the plan because I've kind of dug deep into it a little bit So the reason that this got changed the legislature changed the law rule, whatever you want to call it Statute is they were trying to remove the Ambige the gray areas in the plane because it wasn't clearly defined on who had the right to the trees in the right way so what they said was The only trees that were protected by the town were the ones that they plan so Then they tasked they said in that statute unless the town had a plan So this is why the tree committee has come up to the plan that they feel Will clearly define the trees in the right way in what the rules So the pushback that we've had from landowners That have trees land along the roads is That they do they feel they want to preserve their right to cut the trees in the town right away Now that they know that the gray areas have been removed From the statute. They know they have a right to cut those trees or to manage those trees So the town feels that they'd rather manage They wanted to find that right and they want the right to tell the landowners. They can't cut those streets so it's a real struggle Because some of these people that are pushing back against the plan are people that Perceive they have new rights. They have rights. They're now defined property rights And I'm kind of in that camp myself. I have land along many roads in East Bunker There I feel I now have a right to cut that tree that before it was kind of ambiguous So that So I dug a little deeper and I thought what if we don't have the plane? What if we do not have a plane? Nothing's defined. So what we'll have is a large population East Bunker They don't want chainsaws anyway. They're probably gonna call the town anyway The towns are gonna go out there say you can't cut the tree or we'll cut the tree blah blah blah the Other the downside that as a town perceives it for the plan is if someone cuts a tree That the tree warden doesn't approve of in the right of way That's the only downside to not having the plan is that once in a while someone cut a tree in the right of way That the tree wouldn't doesn't prove Or someone from the town doesn't but if the tree if the town road if say the Tree warden wants to cut a tree or manage a piece of land of some trees in their right of way Right now what they have to do is ask the landlord's permission In the future, they will not have to do that if we have the plan So I'm saying to myself. What's wrong with us going to ask a landowner Is it okay to cut those trees? I mean that's kind of a nice thing They have to ask your permission if we have the tree plan. They will not have to do that They will not have to ask your permission to cut trees on your land in the town right away If we don't have the plan then they have to ask your permission They have to go to Patrick McFly and say can we cut a tree on your land? He's gonna say no. Yes Most people will say fine. They don't have a change sign So I'm not seeing the benefit from the plan particularly Anyway, that's my view Well, we have to pay for that And I could reply to that but I'm not sure that's what no no I'm just saying that we need to move on But I'm saying that there is Some dissent among all of us about the benefit or the non-benefit of the plan and I'm trying to lay out Benefits versus non-benefits, but we need to have more discussion and we don't have the time to know I'm You set our focusing on The possibility that without the plan that with the plan the town would come and without a landowner's permission Yes down trees. I'm not sure we've heard anything about that happening in the past with the system with the tree warden in place My focus on the plan the benefit that I see from it is as I said in last meeting we've got In town plan after town plan we have recognition of the value of the beauty of the roadside trees and Without the plan as I understand it Then the landowner would have the right to I could come and I could clear cut those huge maples on Faro farm road the entire the town right away Exactly Bruce Chapel could yeah, but take that section of center road. That's a risk you take cut everything down He won't do that. I won't do that, but somebody else might buy it. Yep And this plan is a way of protecting that see beauty and taking away landowner's rights That's what you do and that's why you have to push back from the people have come in here They believe in their lives. I'm sorry Seth. We we heard what you're I appreciate the need to summarize But I guess I would ask John and Amy what their thoughts on whether we want to take action or whether we want to leave it see whether the the Folks are Will be coming up with some revisions to the plan based upon the input from the public that they saw at the two of those meetings I'm in favor of allowing The committee to come up with any potential revisions and then presenting it to us We I think Seth's position is clear Carl's outlined his but I think the purpose of today is to figure out Kind of procedurally what the steps next steps are And I'm sorry that I missed the whole hearing and the tree tour At the last meeting. I don't know if I'm super well equipped to really comment on this. I Hear all points. Thank you Okay Hey, I just want to say I Think I can't I kind of agree With Carl that maybe we should we should allow Paul to in the in the committee to go in and make make some Changes based on what they heard at those me at the meetings that came up. I'm not I Can see where Carl's coming from I can see where you're coming from because I in my past work experience dealt with this and I was a deputy tree warden and but the way that the statues work then is that the tree warden reviewed and Helped to take down trees, but they were mostly serious trees in the community that the town had planted And the only other issue we had was when we went to a right away road right away We started cutting down trees people sometimes got upset when we cut down big trees So the important thing to do was to follow the statutes and make sure people were aware We're gonna be cutting them down and we want to cut them down and if there's an issue with it We provided them with their due process So we didn't end up providing with due process in a real court And that was what that was the way the whole process worked now It seems like with the changes that been incorporated in this Essentially, what's what's happening now is the town can just come in and do it. No, that's the plan I mean, well, the plan is the process So we're allowing the committee to come up with a plan and we can we can inform how the process works so the concerns that set this raising can be addressed in the plan and I so I guess my my thought is to Encourage the committee to see if they can incorporate those concerns in the plan. I Agree with that. Okay. Well, let's just see what happens. Yeah Paul's here balls here, but we are way over time, but just Okay, so I guess Jeff and Paul You've heard us talking about the next step and there seems to be the thought on the board that We're gonna wait for your Some revisions or take our thoughts into account and address the next meeting. So Everyone's anxious here from you You're on you somebody's muted, I guess You were muted, but you remuted again Paul you did good Don't touch anything Paul you're all sat. Okay We're the first thing the first thing I'd say is You know anybody in town here is welcome to come Saturday Thursday morning if if you Want to hear what we're dealing with but You know, we're gonna talk with Michael and and And you know, I haven't called Seth yet, but I guess he probably knows anyway But I was gonna talk to the other people who are at our last meeting and just Let him know that we're doing this and and we're trying to Get input so we can figure out a System that'll work You know and of course The state complicated things a little bit I guess Mixing and matching things so it doesn't you know, it's trying to sort that out. So I Hope At least some of you will get there. We'll only be there for an hour and a half because the Listers are coming in. We have to vacate the room there. So But I I don't see this is it's gonna take a little bit to get this worked out and There's if we don't get the give and take then we end up voting on something that nobody's Feels good about and I'm not interested in seeing that happen because I'm interested in seeing the town have Good trees That people appreciate so Anyway, I don't know if Jeff has something he wants to say here, but Go do it Yeah, I think we're a short agenda item So I didn't want to take any time with this meeting and I guess we're happy to carry the ball down a little bit further and and see if we can Strike something that makes more people happy, but We'll see Yep Well, thank you guys I don't want you to feel that I don't appreciate all after you put into this because I do I just know that certain people in town feel a certain way and I I Feel that way myself in some ways too. I mean I appreciate trees, but I also feel some Feelings that we're trading on some people that feel that they have rights and I'm nervous about taking away rights because We have a lot of rules or regulations that govern our lives every single day And I'm not feeling that great about putting more rules in place. So just want to say that and Good luck a meeting You won't see me on Thursday Was that I know that's true. It's true. It's it's a it's a push and pull But when we start putting rules in place that govern Everybody's lives it is there's a loss there also. So there you go. All right, so I'm going to move on to item F because we're way behind And that's discussion on East Montpellier personnel policy revisions Okay, so looking at Bruce's memo We're just talking about the vacation leave stair step chart The proposal essentially wipes out the chart for the first year number in there after all employees receive the same Seen page a the policy section 15 B This is what we talked about at a previous meeting that Amy wasn't there for we said it was important to Amy for her previous comments And so we waited until she returned to take it up again So basically what we would have was before it was one it was two weeks for five years And then after that it added a day was it a day every Some such thing. It was a stare. Yeah, stay up right. Yeah And so we were going to get rid of the stare and What two weeks get a two-step staircase first year 120 hours and second and subsequent year is 144 hours and Then allow people to take vacation leave during their first six months of deployment Yeah Sounds good to me. Yeah Yeah I think what the standard is now, I mean people generally when they start jobs get at least three weeks now, so okay so I moved to revise the personnel policy as Dated As shown in the draft What's a better way for using that Described in draft as presented presented in the draft. Thank you Good work. Okay That's your motion. That's my motion. We have a second on that Amy I saw her name her hand first so we got Amy in a second and Any further discussion? All is in favor, please say aye. All right Okay So this is another one of those things that normally we all sign you all sign so When next you are around like at the 16th or whenever The updated version will be out available to be signed Sounds good All right Discussion on stipends for Green Bay coordinator green update Nothing big green update and that is Chris Rechnelli He's wants a good that wants to step down and he liked it. He does it for free, right? Well, he does it for free, but he was suggesting that given how much trouble he's had he's been trying to step down for Yeah, I know That if you provided a stipend our bottom stipend is usually $500. Yeah, you provide a stipend of something that you can point to Right my help Has he given you a sense of how much time it takes to organize? Well, I can tell you that he spends a lot of time Outreaching to get free items Sometimes you have to get a S3 form Tax-free form to provide the companies to and our W9 He'll hand out Just trying to get some positive stuff We always did that for the lunch right and when that fell away the burden all fell on the one person They were no longer a volunteer group that was doing the lunch Are they doing the lunch? No Is the lunch coming back after COVID or I forget if that died in 2020 or before? The lunch somewhat died before but hadn't completely Jean Kate's group did it and that kind of fell apart five six seven years ago if Paul was still here he could give you a better date but they Remnants of it kept it going up till COVID and then it felt like Whether it comes back don't know I didn't try this year So right now Chris is already doing his Charks for People on roads and who's going to pick up and all that I know it's so he had a front porch forum posting today Trying to get somebody that's willing to drive around again because that's always a wild card If you ever wondered why your bags magically disappeared from the bottom of your driveway It's because of the person Chris arranges to do it You know the road crew doesn't the following week over that place So I would say he probably puts in a hundred hours or more without Breaking a sweat this time of year. It's probably more And then of course he's responsible for great updates out getting all the volunteers and Arranging for the drop-offs and everything And actually dealing with the road well, it's a great Vermont tradition and Just love to see everybody out there picking up stuff on the side of the road trailers full of tires that people have gone down into the woods where they've been tossed off of the road and All sorts of things that really help beautify the town and $500 sounds like something that might entice some people But the people so so the cleanup coordinator at $500 would make what The stipend would be for the planning commission Or whatever Right. Yes. Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is I Don't really know. I don't are stipends true incentives anyway No, I don't think so and I it just kind of seems a little and I know that he does put in a lot of work and I mean being enlightened by that But it just seems a little bit strange that they would get that a cleanup coordinator would get the exact same stipend as somebody that goes to multiple meetings for hours and hours a month but Well, why don't we just try I don't think it's probably an incentive anyway Yeah, well, we just try I mean we don't have anybody stepping up So we can why don't we just go to the next step offer a stipend if no one steps up then we're like, oh well I guess it's not gonna work, right? But if we offer stipend and someone said Oh, okay. I just don't see the harm in offering stipend If it doesn't work as an incentive then we don't pay. Yeah, what's the downside? $500 and Okay, I know I mean, it's you know, it's not a lot of money or anything but it just There is kind of a fairness thing I guess but okay Yeah, I understand it's token Downside is we're not gonna have anybody Oh, yeah, for sure, but I don't think if you offered $500 you're gonna get all of a sudden a huge slate of candidates anyway But you know, maybe you will I guess, you know as you put it maybe why why not try it? Okay? No, I'm no foul as far as all right. I think when I was getting from what you were saying He's kind of put down the people on a DRB to get the same. Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying No stipend. Oh, yeah, I don't think that this I just don't really think it seems that fair but But we don't deal with fairness anymore Okay, so let's go Fairness is not for the discussion What we want to do is get a green day Re-update coordinate and if we can offer some close the money at 500 you might get called to do it I was thinking about it, but as soon as we said there was no meal He was not interested I know $500 stipend for the green update coordinator starting next year. Yeah, yes Do you mean a motion? I did okay? John seconded any further discussion all the favor, please say out All right, I'm assuming that Amy is sort of on board so we'll say five this time around if it doesn't work It's done. I'm sorry that that I didn't realize you were that frugal. Anyway The next item Okay, so really what you should address is the people that fill the cash out the windows and All the tires by side of the road. That's what it's annoying When they put 20 tires That's probably pretty accurate Yeah, yeah, all right Let's go to age just because the night is waning on Discussion on professional oversight of highway projects. Oh Yeah Yes, you said it all right there. Well, I just read off but I got to go to your memo the cheat sheet so to speak Okay, so Doug Newton passed away. Yeah Yeah Yeah, so you're thinking and we should Possibly find somebody to do that It really easy for a decade. Oh, yeah, yeah, and now we don't we used them too He didn't charge you if you didn't come out I wonder if we can Table this until next time just because it's 830 and we all might want to consider it You know in a little bit more detail Is there anything pressing that we need to act on The there's nothing about this that is pressing it. It's just a case of Jason Chase gave us this Preliminary proposal, it's not their final proposal. They didn't know how to frame this either So it's it's just a shot in the dark at this point But we could say if we have interest right we could just say we have interest and they would make a proposal Well, yes, they would actually right. What's wrong with that? Do they do this for anyone else? They're trying to figure out how to do it too. Okay, so no they don't They know our County Road project. They did their part of it. Yeah, and They know the problem with Doug dying also and they're trying to fill the gap but They don't want to put themselves out there as a construction inspection services company Okay, but they recognize what the issue is They're just trying something and again, they knew the County Road project was out there, right? And there was a lot of elements. This might be a good test. Yeah, it's a 1.3 million dollar project And we don't have anybody looking after and we have nobody looking after so what what's the harm in having To make a proposal we can make the decision that you can We can try to have it here by the next meeting and you guys can figure out what you want to do with it Did you want to think about so you need a you need an on-site engineer project engineer Or technician you just need somebody that will look at the concrete and say Because Guthrie doesn't know how to do that. Do you want to think about the possibility of putting out a request for Proposals we already know what they're gonna come back with a lot more. Yeah, some will some might not like stand-tech It's what you're talking about. You know, that was pretty well. That's we've that's our one comparison that we've used recently Yeah, they're not even around anymore. Are they stand-tech? Oh, yeah They were do do Frank Henry No, stand-tech is stand-tech Frank Henry is Got bought up by somebody. I thought of stand-tech, but they made stand-tech I'm gonna buy them out. Mm-hmm, but no, they're still out of South Arlington like they were Anyway, there's a lot of engineering firms there are and we have a general price range for them that 10 to 15% is pretty much 100,000 Yes So we're talking 9,000. Yes, Jeff. We're really talking about the culvert projects That's the big thing. Have a oversight engineer for paving. You don't need it. Right, right, but they can see you're right that the project For the culverts is a lot less is my like 400,000. So, you know 10% 40,000 bucks So that's so good. That's pretty good deal. Yeah, that's a lot of money to go after chase and chase. Is he what they say We'll have to see what they come up with. Yeah, boss is not that much and we should see what the proposal Hey, it may be that you want nothing to do with it And it may be chase and chase realizes this isn't making any sense either for their own people You know, so in the proposal they'll specify what they're going to do Yeah, and that's important because we have questions about a project like that. You can't just let it happen Right. So they broke it out, but they're they'll break it out more. Yes You'll never get a The documents again where they'll just show up when you need them. I understand. Yeah, that was ridiculously And in charge you have what you should Okay, so I think that we have I think we have a message that we would like the proposal. Okay That's okay. Yeah, okay. Do we know of any other retired folks? Trust me, we're reaching out. No, Doug was kind of a one-off The way he presented himself was kind of special Okay, so how about I You're on board. We're done with age. All right discussion agreement for town office cleaning services 60 bucks a week You don't have really cheap before it sounds like I didn't realize how cheap how cheap was it before two fifteen a month Yeah, that's really cheap. Oh, there is I Was just trying to find Kenneson's genitorial services and I couldn't find them and One person shop That's just her name that she uses and she hasn't even Registered at all that I could find She lives out in Dave Rodgers old office building apartment No, not the ones down below, but the first of the two coming back up the hill the one where his office was off to the side of it Yeah She worked for Mike Stone the Dunright people And cleaned our office on multiple occasions over the years But she wasn't the only one there were a couple others and We reached out to the group of people that knew this place and she was the one that was willing to take it off And it's just do they come every day? We can Once a week On the weekend You know, that's probably not that much by today, you know, that's pretty competitive probably That's actually I think that still seems pretty cheap. I mean we got off really cheap before and yeah, yeah now She actually yes, that's in her thoughts So if anyone doesn't understand what Carl was just applying we have a On-site on site garbage pick up On Saturday mornings run here at the town office, and if she times it right she could utilize that service I don't think it's bad. I think we ought we we ought to go for it since she's done before she knows what she's doing We don't the trainer or anything like that I think we would just let her do it training period see how it plays I She'll do a more formal Offer but not by much So you could let her go any time you're not signing off for any period That sounds good. Do we need a motion? I would yeah, okay I move to accept the can we call it a proposal sure the proposal from kettison's janitorial service to Clean the town office at the sir at the rate of $60 a week Second of that we have any discussion about cleaning town office I don't see anything all the favor, please say hi. Hi. Hi. So just so you understand she is insured so She's got that coverage. Mm-hmm. And she's been here before. Yeah, you know Yeah, we know she's reasonable in the country legally. Yeah, well, that doesn't matter As long as the work gets done Okay So we're good Now we move I'd like to move to Jay Discussion on town management like over there Where we oh we have it on our agenda because we pledge to discuss it at every meeting. Yes so Is there anything new that anyone would like to talk about? Well, I think Bruce has summed it up. Well, we are in Washington County We're at even with this new community level tool, which is more forgiving as it were Then they all communicate transmission tool. We're at the high the highest measurement and Much higher than most of the nation Just Well, that's a deal with vaccination rates in this area. I Think East Montpelier is a little bit lower than some other Except for the Northeast Kingdom I was surprised I think the last time I looked at it was a while ago But I was kind of surprised that we weren't up in the 75% rate Yeah, I just figured East Montpelier would be higher than everybody else These numbers between the state and the CDC vastly differ A lot of it can have to do with the fact remember we're a town of the six different mailing address. Oh, yeah, and that always skews these kinds of Yeah, I think John was commenting that East Montpelier is out of whack. Yeah, I was looking at East Montpelier Vaccination according to CDC, I can't tell you off the top of my head But Vermont is just wrong members if Vermont is 85% then Washington County is like 50% Yeah, really? Mm-hmm. It was really low. I'm surprised. That's strange, but the state has it much higher Yeah, and I can buy if I thought you know orange your Yeah Yeah, yeah Orleans, Caledonia, you know, I thought those I thought a Caledonia was pretty high I think I was surprised, but Orleans was low. Well, yeah, Essex was low. Yeah, orange is low Yeah, and I was kind of... You think that the vaccinations rates usually fall political lines generally But in case we have we have a spread that we have Yeah, and we also have run out of the time that the legislature and the governor have given us to have mask mandates So that's not a tool that is realistically open to us We could pass a new mask mandate if we want send it on to the governor's office and he would likely send it back to us and say no And probably we'd get a lot of blowback from people in town as well We could Require masks in the municipal office again. What our municipal staff say about that? That's the most important constituency I see in the office None of them are wearing them right now Rosie was today, I spoke with her briefly about this. Yeah, Rosie was today I spoke with her briefly about this this morning, but then someone came in so I never did get to talk to Denise again, but You know, I basically just asked Rosie to just let me know if there's a decrease of comfort Yeah, especially in particular to that are front-facing with the public Mm-hmm that, you know, if we need to address something then please let me know Rosie said right now She was she or her words where we put a mask on when we feel that we need to yeah So that's right now. They seem to be comfortable with that. Okay. I'm good. Okay, and Rosie's in the meeting Yes, Rosie, please feel free to chime in. I agree with what you just said Okay, I have various Various comfort levels depending upon what I'm doing or whether I'm going to visit my husband or not Considering he's in a nursing home. I try to be as careful as I can But for the most part, you know We we request kindly that people stand in front of the acrylic shield. That's very helpful Okay, and if you're sick sick stay home. Yes, it's not always a cold anymore. Yeah Yeah, a lot of people are getting Actually, yeah, I know I'm not around them. It's a goal Even though the vaccine boosted in the whole day. Yeah, it's playing out like that from for Healthy individuals who are vaccinated playing out like that like almost like a flu or a nasty cold for like four days. Yeah All right, so it sounds like no changes and we'll move to the next item We have the warrants the expense warrant. I have these right here I look fine to me True. I only saw one there was two warrants No, it's just one. Yeah. Yeah, there's just nothing special on it really you got gravel and tires few other things So what do you want us to do with it? Here We don't Yeah, just a reminder that Yeah, set for 5 p.m. Oh great on the 16th. Great Orca has to bring their backpack and carry the camera Okay Can we drive there or you can drive that you can park You know the If you go Fitch Road, yes to Donner Road There's that little slot to the side that is the road that doesn't look like a road You park right there. Okay. Just turn around and Kathy's drive away. Yeah So that's coming in from the Fitch Road side, right coming in from the Calis wheel road side is You just be dropping your car off the other road. Yeah, because it just stops. Yeah What is that for I won't be at the meeting on the 16th? It's it's to visit a site that To just look at the road see where the curb cut might be and try to figure out what you want to do with it So which one it wasn't that's a door don't okay. It's a five o'clock Okay Oh The thing I have listed there is the ARFA funding we did the yeah, the check off submitted the final report for that March 31st reporting period Yeah So that's all set if you want to know something about the Z8 report. We can talk about the lovely hearing more or not Shouldn't be it's actually I'm Happy because Deion quick services will be there get that one out of the way. Yeah and then as I Mentioned to you before Orchard Valley has got a professional plan set going forward, which is a first. Yeah, it's really nice to see Apparently they have a master plan that this is step one up. Yeah, so yeah. Yeah, cool Yeah, the other part is Mike Brown It's putting up a couple of smaller structures behind the big hoop bar. Yeah, and you 32 is is Replacing some dugouts with bigger versions You're putting in a few scoreboards and somebody is doing a sketch plan review for some sort of Me oh They're playing a house right in the middle of a 10-acre field I hope this So so we have personnel matters We do I'm going to go into executive session under one vsa section 313 a3 to discuss personnel matters I'll second that All the favor, please say hi. Hi Guys appear to have it Reporting recording stopped David is trying to ask something sorry Recording in progress On the agenda it mentions your discussion is about the transition of the zoning administrator and transition of the town administrator I'm I'm wrestling with how that qualifies for executive session or how it qualifies for you know, the You know the portion of the law that you just cited. I mean Transition isn't the appointment appointment or evaluation of a public official And personnel isn't a reason to go into executive session there's a bet there are a bunch of personnel related reasons to go into executive session, but We qualify for a executive session This is sort of the what way of doing this Yeah, I get it. I guess we don't have to so we don't have to say We don't have to say specifically right now we should not Let's all look at that statue just to make sure that we aren't keeping out the press The statute says the appointment or employment or evaluation of a public officer or employee so it's a fairly broad It's not limited to appointment. So we can the topic of transition fits within that Category which is under Three of the statute a a three Yep, so thank you that unit it looks like this fall to the Requirements for the section session, right? Yeah, I'll object for the record I you know I hear what you're saying and part of me thinks that some of what you'll talk about is appropriate for executive session But part of me thinks that some of what you'll talk about is it so that's the reason for my objection Okay, well, it's an important question Open meeting law is Part of our democracy I've sat in your position before and probably will again and wanting to be in other meetings So I think if you were Steve you want to have further conversations about this You can't let's want to have further conversations about this. I would be happy to have a conversation after this I think right now Okay, so we're going into executive session Okay, we're out of executive session we are gonna take some action One is we extended that deadline for the applicants for the zoning administrative position to May 16th the other action that we took is We are Planning Commission Development review board planning commission and the select board Advertising in the front porch for them the time is Argus the bridge and the world So the person is expected to carry hours not a stipend correct Carry our minutes Like to make a motion that we adjourned We the second on that Amy second. He's making another motion. Oh, what's the other motion to say goodbye? Any discussion on a discussion on Amy saying goodbye I also I think she just wants us to keep meeting a little longer, right you this you are longer We can make that happen Please say hi We're adjourned. See you guys. Bye. Thank you for joining in