 Hi folks, I'm here with Jordan Charidan. He co-authored an article in The Guardian with Charlie LaDuff It's titled revealed the Flint water poisoning charges that never came to light and we talked about this on my program But I have him here to address some additional details that the article doesn't necessarily state Perhaps he doesn't have the information, but either way we will pick his brain Jordan. Welcome back to the program Hey, thanks for having me So give us just the quick rundown of the story for everyone who missed this story when I talked about it on my channel Or perhaps if they missed you speaking about this on your show Yeah, so basically what we learned was the original Flint water investigation which went on from 2016 to 2018 That was launched by at the time the Republican Attorney General of Michigan who hired a special prosecutor We learned that that Prosecution team was on the verge of filing racketeering charges against state officials in Michigan Whose decisions and allegedly? Financial scheme alleged financial scheme actually led to the poisoning of Flint led to Flint Even using the Flint River in the first place. So we learned that pretty serious financial charges were in the works But when the current Attorney General Dana Nessel came into office in 2019 She fired that team that was building that racketeering case and the racketeering case Died on the vine just so your audience knows racketeering is RICO and RICO is created in the 1970s to go after like organized crime Mafia figures. So it's it's about as serious as you can get in terms of financial crimes So our reporting showed that a there was serious racketeering charges in the works that first for whatever reason the current Attorney General has not followed through on the Separate financial charges that were already filed Against state officials for alleged fraud that led to the water crisis. Those were separately dropped by the current Attorney General's prosecution team so in a nutshell a lot of financial fraud that led to the poisoning of the city, but It's kind of gone by the wayside in terms of actual prosecution by the current prosecution team Now some things that were interesting to me is the fact that the former Team who was looking into this and possibly going to pursue the RICO charge This was the Republican and now the Democrat had come in and chose to just let the RICO portion of this go Now you kind of hinted at this in the article that perhaps maybe this is going to cost the city a lot of money That's why but do you have any idea as to what the motivations were here with respect to? That is missile of these charges because it's it's so It's so weird that it's almost too conspicuous as if there's something else going on here So any additional details you could share with regard to that angle because I feel like it's a little bit sus to put it Frank Yeah, I mean I can't get in the Attorney General's head. She gave me kind of a vague Comment for the story just saying we pursued by all viable charges Why a major racketeering case was viable for your predecessors, but not you? It's a pretty big discrepancy. I should also point out I broke a previous story last year in the intercept that the original Prosecution the same one that was building this racketeering case was building a case against Governor Snider The Republican governor who presided over this whole thing and a cover-up. They were building a case against him for involuntary manslaughter This Attorney General she fired that team and her team charged the governor with a misdemeanor So there's major discrepancies not only the financial charges, but involuntary month involuntary manslaughter and misdemeanor but a few things number one some of the prosecution team some of the key people from that prosecution team that was Going up to Snider that were building this racketeering case They're on the record publicly saying that when they were fired The new team of this current Attorney General didn't even really do a proper debriefing with them to find out What were you working on for three years? Where's the investigation stand? so there seems to be a bit of I don't know if it's incompetence on this current team or Politics like we're just getting rid of the team that was under the Republican Attorney General We don't need to debrief with them. We'll figure it out on our own But then the more follow the money side of me says well There's two there was two things going on at the same time you have criminal prosecution But also the civil the civil settlement Where last year the state of michigan settled with residents of flint for 600 million dollars Well mike if a major racket if major financial racketeering charges go forward in criminal court Uh the state of michigan's bill goes higher than 600 million dollars in civil liability Because you're talking massive financial fraud same thing by the way if governor snider had been charged with involuntary manslaughter civilly The the lawyers on behalf of the residents of flint They have more leverage and more bargaining power and more potential damages and liability You're talking that could go up closer to a billion dollars in liability civilly So there's a conflict of interest where the state of michigan is on one end criminally prosecuting potential criminals that poison the city But on the other end the state of michigan wants the lowest bill possible To pay the poison residents of flint and then the third thing which we are mentioning the story separate from the civil settlement the state of michigan faced potentially hundreds of millions of dollars of liability if That those rico charges if financial fraud went forward in court because the state of michigan actually Ultimately signed off on the allegedly fraudulent financial deal. It was a it was a bond deal Uh, which gave flint 85 million dollars tomorrow to join a new water system At the time flint was broke. It didn't even have a credit rating So how does a broke city borrow 85 million dollars? That's where the alleged financial scheme came into play to allow flint to borrow that money So the state of michigan potentially faced hundreds of millions of dollars in liability if those rico charges went forward Secondly jp morgan and wells for wells fargo. So wall street banks They issued the bonds they issued the bonds for that allegedly fraudulent deal So if this goes forward in court, you potentially have bondholders investors Pulling their money and potentially suing not only the state of michigan But jp morgan and wells fargo because jp morgan and wells fargo as part of the bond deal Uh, this is from sources for the story. They were supposed to do do do their due diligence to make sure that the flint water treatment plant was Equipped to treat the flint river water at the time that they switched in 2014 to the flint river The flint water plant needed 60 million dollars in upgrades It didn't even have the proper equipment to safely treat the water. So to basically Simplify it state of michigan could be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars and jp morgan and wells fargo could be on the hook for Hundreds of millions of dollars did the attorney general not throw the book at state officials or follow the money Press financial charges because of that. I don't know all I could do is report Her predecessors were if it's football were kind of on like the 10 5 or 10 yard line a filing massive racketeering charges and Once she fired them all she did not follow through on that case Wow, um, yeah, there's there's so much and the story goes so deep Then I initially ever expected it to I mean certainly I knew that there was political corruption here But it's just it's so extensive and it's a little bit demoralizing to know that um Even when You know the momentum is one direction it can shift all it takes is somebody who is new and you you think that The democratic party at least for political purposes would want to pursue this because that kind of proves How incompetent and criminally corrupt that last administration was but they're not and it's um It's really it's demoralizing. Um, so let me ask you this Has there been anyone like a single person who's gone to jail or do you believe anyone will go to jail over the flint water crisis? I mean, how many people 100 000 citizens were poisoned? Um, do you do you think you'll ever you'll ever see justice like in that sense where somebody goes to jail? Nobody has gone nobody has even faced a jury yet And part of that is because there was this disruption in the investigation again You had prosecutors and investigators that were doing this for three years 2016 to 2018 and then the democratic attorney general comes in and fires most of them And there wasn't a lot of continuity. She didn't keep most of that team. She fired So you're basically starting from scratch after three years of investigating Uh, the second thing so no, uh, the attorney general the new team They charged governor snider and others a year ago in 2021 But right now they're Basically to whittle it down Snider and other defendants are trying to get the charges tossed Because the current attorney general and her prosecutors forgot to use what they call a tank team A tank team is a people who are not involved in a criminal investigation who scour through all the documents and all the Evidence that is obtained by prosecutors to make sure that there is nothing in there. That's attorney client privilege well, apparently The attorney general's team did not use a tank team again to make sure there's no privileged information So snider and other high-profile defendants are trying to get the charges tossed on that technicality and honestly Between myself and charlotte le duff who I worked on this story with our sources indicate that they might Be successful in getting the charges tossed Based on that technique technicality, but bottom line April is eight years. I cover this not just Because it's about flint but because it's kind of important that people who poisoned a city Whether it's flint or anywhere else are held accountable because if they're not held accountable What makes you think that? Your mayor or your city council or your governor or your dog elected dog catcher What makes you think they're gonna blink twice? Maybe it's maybe it's not about water But maybe it's about something else that could harm you or your family or your neighbors If no one is held accountable in flint, no one is really held accountable That's the playbook others other elected officials are gonna say well, you know You got away with it in flint and honestly I've lived and breathed this for five years. This is one of the top stories. I've covered. I've been to flint Nearly 20 times. I could tell you this is one of the biggest government cover-ups of this century Like I do not If if there wasn't a president involved with watergate, this is bigger. Nobody died in watergate Uh, you have the cover up in real time. My reporting has shown Previous former governor snider. He literally lied to flint to congress. He knew he knew the water was toxic 16 months before he notified people you have this financial fraud that Basically a broke city that wasn't legally was not legally allowed to borrow more money Was somehow a financial scheme was put into place to allow flint to borrow money to join a new water system That they did not need to use and while not did not need to join and while that new water system was being built Well, let's put them on the flint river and we don't need to add the proper chemicals to make sure the water is safe So there's a massive cover-up. The media in my view has been in on it. I that's a whole other topic So, you know, there's been no justice. No one has been there's been no jury trial yet No one has been convicted and like I said Currently governor snider who is a very wealthy man and other defendants who are also wealthy They got really really good lawyers trying to get these charges tossed And in large part the current attorney general and her team have have helped them through errors they made Yeah, yeah, um, very Very discouraging to hear one thing that I wanted to get your take on is the um, I guess the political climate Because one thing that I think drew people to this story perhaps a self-interest, you know If you see it happen the flint, there's this idea that it could happen in your city as you as you pointed out Uh, but with the bipartisan infrastructure deal They are replacing some some lead pipes. Biden is saying that they're replacing all of them That's actually incorrect, but they are placing some lead pipes So when people get the sense that this can no longer happen to them Are you worried that the american people broadly speaking will check out? I mean not to mention the competing things that they're dealing with currently, you know with respect to the other crises Do you think that The moment for justice is kind of passing not just because Of you know, all of these this perfect storm of bullshit the technicality for you know Governor snider and whatnot and the prosecution team the new attorney general But also because of you know, the political climate like what's your take on that overall broad question? But just kind of like your overall thoughts Yeah, I mean first I should start there's been this narrative that the water and flint is now safe. That's not right, right? That's not true. I could tell you that I've been there. I was just there six months ago There's residents still getting rashes. Secondly flint particularly They have not touched residents Home plumbing they have not changed residents interior plumbing They have only changed the service lines from the curb Into the house They also have not touched the main pipes underneath the street So they've only basically changed One third one out of three sets of pipes. They're supposed to change so for you know, this whole This whole theory that oh, they've changed all the pipes and flint not even close So that's number two number three. Uh, yeah, biden's infrastructure deal. It's a marketing thing at this point It doesn't change all the lead service lines. And I think your viewers should know Lead although it's very important and replacing all the lead service lines would be very important That's not the only source of water contamination in this country Uh, one of the biggest sources of water contamination is joe biden's donors and republican donors Contaminating your waterways industrial pollution. Uh, for example the flint river general motors dumped its waste in the flint river for 100 years There's a whole lot of other Corporations that are dumping toxic in many cases cancer causing carcinogens in waterways I've covered that in north carolina and other states. So just replacing lead service lines. That's important But to tell people well, that will make sure your children's water is safe Not that's not true. Uh, and if you actually look up what's in your water Where you live, you might be kind of appalled once you find out what they're dumping in the water. So To answer on the political is there a chance For justice it's kind of hard when Years year after year if the year goes by it's just human nature for the people to kind of move on from it The media certainly has. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna keep fighting to expose the truth. But do I think there will ever be justice? At this point, I I'd be lying if I was hopeful For the people of flint Yeah, there was a moment last year Uh, where I kind of felt a little bit of optimism I mean, there could never be true justice for the people of flint because you can't and undo the damage that was caused But at a minimum if you jail the crooks who did this to them, then I think that Okay, that that's good. Uh, but it just seems like everything has kind of gone downhill But of course, they're still more to unravel with the story So my question to you is I know you'll you'll kind of stay on this beat Um, and you can't really probably because you you're investigating these things this close too much But what is the next avenue that you think is really important to explore? And for people to pay attention to when it comes to flint michigan and this entire criminal conspiracy You know to tell you the truth mike I pretty I don't mean this in a cocky way. I just mean this because it's true I've literally pretty much broke the biggest things That's the crime of this because literally each story I break Including last year. I broke a story that governor snyder's top officials. Literally their phones were erased Right before the launch of a right before the launch of a criminal investigation. I remember that I covered that too. Yeah so I pretty much broken Uh, four major stories over the last two years that show the governor's right-hand man his his Basically known as his political henchman was paying off Sick flint residents to keep quiet. I've broken that governor snyder He knew about the toxic water 16 months earlier. I got a hold of his phone calls with top officials The phones and messages being erased and now that there was a major financial Major financial charges about to come and this current attorney general punted it So it's not that I won't stop digging but I've pretty much broken the biggest, you know, the biggest, um Rocks of this And honestly each time I break it I can't get the flint media to cover it. I can't get the michigan media to cover it I certainly can't get the national media to cover it. I've literally had I had an nbc news editor tell me. Yeah, I mean This just happened so long ago that and we don't really think readers care anymore Literally add an nbc editors tell nbc news editor tell me that I've had other editors ask me when I pitch them stories Is there a connection to trump? So as much as this is a government cover-up, this is also a story about essentially corporate media which is highly concentrated in new york dc and an urban areas with pretty much You know well off cosmo palton journalists who probably couldn't find flint on a map Let alone would go there that they just don't give shit. I mean, I don't know what a what a what are the way to put it And I care Not because to me if you're a true journalist like this says every corrupt bone you could ever ever wish to Uncover, but I mean you'd have to be a sociopath like not to care about I mean I've interviewed hundreds of residents at this point They're getting sicker and sicker as the years go on because heavy metal heavy metal heavy metal poisoning It it hits you as the years go on worse and worse. It takes years for the full effects to manifest I mean you'd have to be crazy not to care like I've spoken with children that they no longer could recite the alphabet um, I've sat with 30 some things that Because of their health seem closer to their 60s. I'm talking I have friends in flint That are now developing cancers that they have no family history of uh, and they were healthy before the water switch So uh to me it's a real it's a crime of the government, but it's also a crime of our media You know a lot of things have fallen through the cracks in the last five year You know trump circus and whatever is going on post trump, but this is this is why it's This is why the state of the media right now It's not just like oh, yeah, it's fun for us to get clicks to crap on the corporate media This these are the victims of the corporate media the people of flint who the corporate media has lied that their water is safe The corporate media has basically buried Key details of a government cover-up. I mean nothing I've reported and vice the intercept now the guardian Not one fact has ever been disputed. Uh, I've never had to correct anything So at the end of the day you have a massive government cover-up of Why their water switched? When did the government know the water was toxic? Why did they not notify people who was behind not notifying the residents who helped cover it up after the fact Why were phones deleted? I mean it's a major cover-up and again people think it's like oh, it's about flint No, it's about all of us because if they get away with it and flint trust me It's come into a town near you whether it be water or something else Yeah, I've always believed that this is really a microcosm of a bigger issue in the united states Not that this isn't a massive issue itself But it speaks to how brazenly corrupt people are in the united states and how the media this I mean, I feel like this really highlights everything wrong with capitalist media, you know news as a business which I mean the priority should always be the dissemination of information not making money But this is what they do They have a fiduciary responsibility to appease their shareholders their businesses just like walmart just like target just like any of these companies And you know they make these executive choices to not cover certain things Even if it's to the detriment of the american people and that's really Discouraging so not to be too doomer, but you know the details especially if you've been covering something like this I'm sure you you Are a little bit exhausted, but you know before we go tell the people what you're doing and where we can support your work Yes, I mean even though uh, the media is ignoring it I mean the people of flint appreciate that and I know our viewers at status coup appreciate what we're doing So definitely if you can subscribe status coup c o up on youtube click the bell for all notifications YouTube's still screwing with us, but that helps So we definitely subscribe to status coup and and if you can't afford it The only reason i've been able to break these stories is because i've gone to flint nearly 20 times and and that was funded mostly by Status coup viewers so you could you could support us as a member for five bucks a month at status coup dot com slash join But it's free to subscribe on youtube so status coup c o up and uh, I appreciate you continuing to cover this and having me on Yeah, thank you so much jordan everyone go check out status coup. Thanks so much