 Hello everyone. Thank you for attending the session. Today we will specify the use case that is being done for Saudi Aramco so that the supplier ecosystem that it has for very, very complex contracts, how that could be utilized, we can utilize a hyper ledger fabric to automate all that particular process, what were the problems that are associated with and how we delivered this particular solution to them. So first we would like to introduce ourselves. Abdullah, he is from Aramco. So he is my co-speaker. So you'll specify things about Aramco. Yes, thank you for attending. Good afternoon. My name is Abdullah Laskari. I work for Saudi Aramco for with experience of 15 years. I started supporting the hydrocarbon systems and then shifted to the blockchain solution at the end of 2019. Saudi Aramco is one of the largest integrated energy and chemicals group of companies with the goal of providing sustainable and reliable energy to the world. It's back to you Mr Ali. And like if you can Google across, if people don't know about Aramco, if you see around 1.42 trillion numbers, that is what Aramco is. It's a huge, huge organization. So now myself, I'm Ali Safri. I'm the Chief Technology Officer at Avansa Innovations and we had been partners to deliver this particular purchase to pay and invoice verification use case. Avansa is a certified hyperlizer solution provider and this is one of the projects we have delivered many other consortia in the Middle East region. Let's go to the problem that we solved using the blockchain technology. I will start by comparing the goods or material procurement with the service procurement. Honestly, we can say that there is no real complexity in the goods or material procurement because verification of such thing is based on quantities or quality of these delivered goods, no defects, everything is okay, then invoice can be issued unpaid normally. The problem and the complexity comes when we procure services, especially with long-term contracts that can also span a period of 10 years or more with big service providers dealing with Saudi Aramco. The problems come, the problem comes when we try to cross-check the delivered services with the terms and conditions in the contract and we need to go back, not only to the contract, also to the purchase order level. So when we receive the invoice and the invoice package from our vendor, we need to verify that all these services delivered or the claims in the invoice are really delivered and according to the terms and conditions of the contract. Here comes the challenge and we will elaborate more on the complexity and challenges back to you, Mr Ali. Okay, so as we see across the overall life cycle that how things happens across Saudi Aramco because they are doing huge projects, so that the contractors that they align are for a long term. It could not be that okay for this opportunity, work on it because it's a continuous kind of a business that is happening across. So typically the contracts last for five years to 10 years and these are long form or mid form kind of a contracts in the terminology that is being specified. Now, how the work happens? So some of the contracts are manpower based contracts and the manpower based contract, what will happen? So still the work is not started. You are onboarding a contractor. You will say these are the technical skills that I need across and this for this particular skill, I am willing to pay you this amount of rate of straight time and this amount of rate of overtime and these things get complex. Sometimes they say, okay, for this average salary between this particular bracket would be allowed along with it. If you have spouses or children's, these would be additional benefits that you will get across. Now people will travel also. So based on travel, there would be per diems. There are constructions because there are big constructions that happen in oil and gas as well. So there are certain office spaces that are created across. So for that, there are rules. There are technical drawings that are being delivered for them. There are certain billing rules. So a lot of rates are there and like a hundred pager contract is created across with a lot of terms and conditions. Now this is on paper. Now secondly, what happens is when they have a requirement, they issue some kind of a service request. And again, this is running across one or two years. So that service request is there. Now how the supplier will prove that this particular manpower or services that I utilized across this much I need to charge. So what happens? They these guys go normally to those particular construction sites or the other sites or oil and gas related sites. And there is some field engineer or field staff from a Ramco that creates a kind of a time sheet and now see what is happening over here. That contractor is using their own system to put the time sheet data. They are taking the printouts. They are getting that verified from this particular field staff or field manager that is there on site and keeping the copy. Now this works for the whole month. At the end of the month, invoice is submitted across along with all the paper trail, right? So there is obvious opportunity. There is data within a Ramco. There is data between for this particular supplier, but this is not a shared letter. It's not a distributed letter. So first application of the DLT comes over here. Now second thing is somebody has to verify are the contractual terms and conditions which are a number of contractual terms and conditions and I'll come on to the next slide for this as well. How do we go govern? So the current the previous structure was that somebody was manually looking across multiple tiers verifying that whatever invoice amount that is finally calculated across and whatever are the supporting documents they match or not match. Now change it put everything onto the blockchain and make the blockchain enforce those smart contract conditions. So the resultant activity was that whatever was taking two months to reconcile it is like very, very quick, right? So these are the things which are there. So now I'll tell about the different kind of contracts. One is a manpower based where you talk about the skill sets, how what are the rates for those particular skill sets? Other is services. Let's say you need tiling to be done. You need other kind of activities to do to be done. So there are rates involved and that would be under certain circumstances. Those rates would be applicable across. So that's a service based rates. There would be many variety of equipment and vehicles that would be required because in order to construct or in order to do the complex things, you have those complex equipment as well. So those equipments also have as rates under very specific terms and conditions, those rates could be different as well. So that's another thing and there are a variety of contracts in which all of the above are applicable across. So taking those contractual things on one side, then you need to verify those terms and conditions. And then another area is there that if the contract is there, it would be cancelled. It would be revised. It would be extended. So these add to more complexities on those particular areas. So with distributed ledger that shared view to all the parties at all times comes using the hyper larger fabric and with the smart contracts, all the contractual terms and conditions becomes enforceable. So let me give an example of a typical contract. So what happens is there would be for different skill set, different salary brackets that okay, it should come within this. So if the contractor charges more than this, then somebody was previously viewing that no, this is not possible. Now authorization is important as well that before this person is deployed across some certain person authorize it as well. So there is a structure called prior authorization forms that were previously used and sent across the emails. So this was one another area. There are social benefits that are given across because of the bonuses and other perks. So that's another area. So they agree with that particular contractor. Other personal cost and also like the person is for the first year or for the second year, that's complexity. There are different kinds of rates for that. There are many indirect costs for that particular company, for example, for providing the insurance or paying the management salary, all those things with another terms and conditions and depending on how many hours you work, there are different rates, right? So how you come up with the rates, there are formulas and formulas. There are a lot of formulas. Similarly, if you are doing the accommodation, Saudi Aramco is providing the accommodation, the contractor himself is providing the accommodation at which distance the accommodation is being provided. All these are with different rates. There are certain consultant sometimes comes, they have certain different rates based on which things would be done across and there is a fee structure, which is a kind of a very transparent margin that the contractor will make on all the this particular contract. So all of these things are pre-agreed across. Then there would be certain conditions as well that if there is a subcontractor, they cannot charge more than 30% more than the overall amount. And there are different heads in which the costing is happening across. Sometimes you can transfer the budget among them. Sometimes you cannot transfer. So the overall contract, when it is around 100 page documents, it has with terms and conditions and everything. And all this goes into the smart contract. So if we see this particular life cycle processing, so from the contracting stage, a smart contract is set up. Then all the service deliveries that happens, all that data stamped onto the blockchain. And finally, what is going to happen? System will generate all the documents, all the invoices and come up with the final amount. Now, and for this verification cycle will be very, very less. Previously, everybody has to reconcile things. So what another thing that needs to be considered that the scope that was taken across was not how you reach the contracting. Those contracting team will decide what is the contracting. What is there is that they are providing a support that they can translate those terms and conditions into a smart contract. So that's one thing. And secondly, once the invoice is verified, the payment is going to happen where the traditional means that payment is not part of that particular blockchain initiative. So it is when the contractor signed all the service request or the service delivery, the invoice generation, invoice verification, that's happens between Aramco and its partners onto the blockchain. So now we will dig into the as is the process. As you can see, the manual process includes sharing Excel files, sharing scan documents, emails between different Saudi Aramco employees from different departments, these time sheets or pre approval forms, service requests, and the signatures or the sign offs of deliver service are all manual, all communicated in a synchronous and offline manner. Scan documents manually handled and signed, maybe duplicate records, maybe different versions of records are available with the Saudi Aramco and the vendor. This all brings like complexity and adds more complexity to the complex contracts that we are dealing with. And at the end, the vendors, they are using a portal submitting the full package scan documents and guess what? The start of the verification process only triggered by this point when they submit this package. So Saudi Aramco staff will start verifying cross checking against the terms and conditions which will take a long time, which is a prone to error, prone to human error. And this will cause a delay which might reach up to three months to pay the invoice. Vendor are impacted for sure and happy. Okay. But this is the case for such big and complex projects and contracts. Now we will dig in into the as into to be or the after the solution. All the things that we talked about, if we see the life cycle, the first is a contracting stage. The second is a service request is created for procuring those particular services based on pointing on to that particular contract. Then which resources would be conducted? What would be the travel budget? All these things would require certain pre approvals. So those particular data. Yes, please. Yes. So initially, we started to port those particular contracts and port it into the smart contract because every different requirement was having a different kind of a smart contract. So as part of the process, there was some standardization that was done as well, right? After the activity, we created a kind of a contract builder as well. So to the contract builder, there would be a wizard interface whereby you specify that these would be the type of conditions. So it would automatically deploy that particular smart contract. Yes. But for the contract builder, see what happens? You define the conditions and it would output a smart contract and that would be deployed later on. So first, like this would be one of the challenges that happened across that you had to look at those pile of contracts. And then you have to standardize something from a perspective that on ground, those contract don't change, but technically that needs to be delivered. So there is a variety of contracts that we had to read across. And then we have to generalize certain things and certain things remain special. So certain smart contracts are very specifically written. So they are kind of a one time, but others, they are kind of modifiable or are generatable. These are vendors, okay? We don't deal with individuals because individuals are part of the contract. For example, manpower. If you remember when Mr. Ali explained the different types of contracts, some of them might be solely only manpower, providing manpower to Saudi Aramco. Some of them is a mix of all or a combination of all manpower plus other things like equipments or services being delivered like drawings or other engineering services. So we deal with a contractor with a company, big, and as I told you, maybe very complex and long term contracts with billions of dollars in amount. So we have this contract in a vendor level. And later we have every vendor has a node, okay? Every vendor has a node. And we keep sharing. The share ledger is among all the participants. So we'll come to the architecture as well. Let's go through the story. So first was a contracting phase. It converted into a kind of a smart contract. Second thing is the service request. It would be recurring whenever there would be a requirement, a service request would be raised across. Then there is a service execution whereby approvals are taken, time sheets are periodically given. And now what is the architecture? One of the things that we have seen across in a blockchain, if you tell people that, okay, there was an old system now use a new system. So they would be kind of confused that why they are asking to hop across the system. Saudi and Ramco, the people are using the same SAP systems. So there are UIs created rather than going into the SAP, it taps into the blockchain data. Similarly, the contractor has a node. So contractor, whatever they upload, whatever time sheets that come, their systems are integrated, like they can submit the data based on API. If they do not have that any integration possible, they have a user interface based on ways they can submit those particular time sheets and request. Now, one other problem was that the when the contractor was submitting across based on the emails, on the other side, they don't know it is getting approved or not. Over here, they have the complete visibility and trace that who is there with Ramco. There are any SLAs that are being applied, that visibility is there with the contractor as well. And they know every week that whenever they submit the time sheet, it is getting approved or there is a dispute compared to the previous case where after the month they will submit and they will take two to three weeks and then raise a dispute that no, this was not correct. So overall, agreements and disputes cycle are reduced across. And finally, once the service is completed, because over here, there are different mechanisms as well. Some contract says when you deliver the complete service, then you will be paid. Other contract says no, we will pay you every month on whatever services that are being provided to you. So depending on how you set up the contract, these things would be available. But the crux of the thing is neither Ramco, neither the supplier or the contractor, they are not generating the invoice. It is not manual. System will tell that based on these formulas, see this is the final invoice. This is the associated documentation with respect to it. So this is how things would be generated across as part of an invoice. And this is a digital invoice. Now there are other advantages to it as well. A mandate for invoicing kingdom across in Saudi. So what happens? They implemented this thing. So now the supplier doesn't have to do separately, right? Because from the system, it would be based on the mandate that it would be directly generated across. So these are some of the advantages. Now, another thing is that we could think about that, okay, any organization in order to pay its supplier, the longer it takes, it is good for them, right? Why you want to pay. But for the Ramco, the biggest one of the challenges was that they have kind of SLA that if everything is verified, we will pay you in one or two days. Now because of this complexity that you don't know, the funds would be required in the next one month, next one week or next two months or next three months, they have to log the funds. So they cannot do anything about those particular funds with this, the cash flows improves. So there is a advantage for the Ramco as well. And another thing is supplier also has a great advantage because if they come on this particular solution, they would be paid faster. So I think you can discuss the other advantages. I will reiterate the challenges like the frequent disputes, lengthy processing time as you could tell from the previous discussion, and maybe it's prone to overpayment error also. And the enablers to solve these challenges are the smart contract, the shared ledger, and the digital signature that we introduced using the blockchain solution. And these are the benefits that we got from the solution that processing time is really optimized around 90% enhancement for that processing time. Dispute still now after we went live is zero and the cash flow transparency which Mr. Ali just mentioned, you know, we have the cash flow transparency and we can tell what to be paid to which vendor and which amount ahead of time instead of waiting four months. One other thing I'd like to highlight in the last slide that we can see across about overpayment errors. Consider a situation when everything is paper based. So what can happen is that a rogue supplier can book one person with certain hours in one time sheet because it's all manual, right? And book the same person in some other project and some other time sheet. There is no control, right? But now the smart contract is seeing that this is one person. How can it go at the same time on the same day with the same amount of hours? So a kind of governance which was previously not available. A lot of those particular conditions came into the highlight. And when we showed this particular solution, those guys were really excited that yes, whatever is written in those particular IAP books as conditions, they could be actually automated and cashed across and not allowed in the first place. Second thing is about digital signatures. I'd like to identify that as well that in a blockchain and a hyper larger fabric implementation, it is the organization identification. But in real world, what happens? It is the people that are signing those particular document. So you need people digital signatures since such a feature is outbound, not available in hyper larger fabric. So what happens is all the organization users that are also onboarded their digital signatures of public private key pairs are also recorded. And every signature they do like a time sheet that they approve. So on a blockchain transaction as a digital record for that particular signing is there, which is verifiable as well. So this is one another thing which is different than the paper based approach that was happening previously. We'll summarize the value again that is provided by the blockchain solution. When we compare the as is solution with the to be or the current solution with the blockchain, you know, all contracts were paper based, more than 100 pages. Now we have smart contracts summarizing all the terms and conditions contributing to the amount of the invoice at the end. All the manual work for the service delivery is gone. Now we are dependent on some automation. All transactions for the service delivery tracking are in the shared ledger between the two different parties Saudi Aramco and the vendor. The system of records was distributed and scattered everywhere. Emails, Microsoft Office files like Word, Excel and maybe some unofficial communication even using phone. Now it's all shared ledger. Invoices were scanned in an invoice package with all supporting documents and being submitted with hundreds of pages at the end of the month or at the end of the service and then the starting of the verification or the verification starts only then. Scanned supporting documents, but now system generating supporting documents. For example, the man hours can be summarized through the system. No need to submit like scanned copies about the time sheets for the individuals. No, time sheets can be calculated and provided as generated by the system. Okay. Following all the approved and digitally signed transactions disputes. No more disputes at least till till now. Okay. So these are some of the application components as I specified across that a blockchain is not only hyper ledger fabric. There is a complete ecosystem around it. There would be off chain components that would complement it. There would be user interfaces with which organization will work across. There would be API integration with the traditional system that is going to happen. And in this case, it is both the Saudi Aramco systems as well as the contractor systems that could be connected across and the user interfaces to be provided to those particular partners that are currently working totally in Excel or without any automation. So one is the contract definition module whereby you can define what are the contract, what are the contractual terms, what are the parameters within those particular contract. So that's one part. Then there would be different kinds of service requests that are available and there is a variety of different kind of a request. It is also not standardized. So there is a standard version as well, but there are different versions of well. Sometimes it is called a service order. Sometimes it's a master service order. There is a work order. There is a work element release. So a lot of combinations are available for just defining the service request. Time sheets and approval forms, they are kind of common across what they capture is different things. Like as I specified, sometimes it is a very straight time that is provided. But in other cases, it is the benefits, other direct costs, all of them combined together to create a straight time. So there is some kind of a complexity. Auto invoice generation module that takes the blockchain data and outputs all the PDFs. So this is that particular module. So this is with the business area, which is there. But other components are, for example, the APIs that are being created and provided to the systems. In certain cases, interfaces are provided by the blockchain application. This is particularly true for the contractor because some of the contractors did not have any systems. So they have to do the data entry itself. Events coming from the blockchain. So there are event handling components that are created across and at the bottom authentication and authorization notification, because it is required, right? At timesheet is submitted, then somebody in our Ramco needs to know using a notification. So a multiple module for that signature verification, as I specified, that all the users that are onboarded across the organization, they also have an identity which is shared with Aramco as well. And everything that they do, there is a digital signature record on the blockchain, which is verifiable. There are workflows. So what happens is that when the supplier or the contractor is submitting a timesheet, maybe his boss wants to review it before it is submitted to Aramco. So interorganization workflows are available as part of this particular solution. So it's not only the contracting smart contracts for the workflow or signature verification, there are different kinds of smart contracts that are running there. Replication of the data for the reporting purposes. So these are some of the other areas and the application components that we have available here. Now one other thing that needs to be seen across when we talk about blockchain, we say everybody has a node, right? And the nodes could be corrected across. What we have seen is that how consortiums have evolved is that there is a champion entity because it has to prove a concept. Other parties says no, we are not ready to invest in this particular thing. So initially the owner of the consortium says, okay, I'll host all the nodes. So this is one element of it that with Aramco and with its different supplier, they are hosted within IBP itself within Aramco. So that's one thing. Second thing is contractors saying across that, okay, I'll host my node. So that's very traditional architecture with which you can connect. Third is there are smaller partners, right? Now you create a totally separate node that would be expensive, right? Because from a business sense, the contribution is not that much. The business benefit is not that much. So what you can do is you can create a shared node with a shared node, what will happen? It will have technically the same MSP, but the data is recorded on different channels. So this is one another concept that we normally utilize in the deployments that we do. Either the consortium owner hosts the nodes, node is outside, or it's a shared node so that everybody could be onboarded very much easily and everybody gets the benefit of the blockchain. So this is about the deployment architecture and you can see that the contractor, they can have system to system or a user to system interaction. And on the other side, so the Aramco guys, they don't feel at all the blockchain because whatever UI is they were seeing across, they see the same UI, they see press the same button, they work in the same manner that they were previously doing across. So we'll go about the implementation challenges. One of the first implementation challenge that comes is about the security. And organizations like Aramco, they have a number of teams which are separate. Infrastructure security is separate. A network security is separate. There is a governance and risk that's separate. So a lot of different like sub organizations with Aramco are there. All of them have certain conditions that you need to comply. So this is one of the part that takes time in order to actually create this particular architecture. And since we were the first one for the others implementation that will happen, they had some relaxation because we would take all these things and to Aramco that how things will happen from a security perspective. This took us a certain amount of time. And even there are other challenges as well, like you cannot just deploy the components because at the back there are certain node modules, for example, that could be utilized, right? It's a fixed set of node modules that could be taken across which are very security tested. You cannot just put any type of a code over here. So a lot of things are there. Other thing is about engaging the people. There are separate departments for each of the contracting governance. There are separate departments who are taking for the business, like awarding those particular jobs. There are separate departments that are saying for the day to day operations. And there are separate people who actually verify, certify the things across. So a lot of stakeholders need to be engaged across. You have to take everyone together. Otherwise, nobody is excited about technology. They want business right at the end of the day. So everybody has to be taken across. So this is one another important challenge that we had. And last thing is think about a case because it is all paper, right? I am creating a voice in my format. I am like putting the data in my format and submitting across somebody else is doing something else. Somebody has some systems, somebody do not have a system. Now it is all standardized. If a new supplier comes, he comes with a node. All these processes are already available. They have to just log in and it becomes easier for the supplier as well. So this means you have to take all the contractors and all their people as well into confidence. And this could happen, right? I can go with one of the contractors and then find out but that would not be the true situation on ground. So we had to engage initially multiple contractors, listen to them, what are their problems and take their buying as well. So these stakeholders both at Aramco as well as all those contractors, this was a big challenge. And if you do not manage it the right way, the system would not have been live, but we were able to do that. Finally, I will give some statistics, some numbers about the system now as a current state. We have embroidered 11 vendors till now. The submission to payment cycle reduced by 90%, as I mentioned in the benefits from the system. We processed up to now more than 28 invoices using the system and zero disputes till now. And one to three months verification period is now reduced to around two to eight days or maximum we can say two weeks, which is really a great benefit. And this is an incentive really for our vendors, you know, this might really help in convincing them at least to host their own nodes and to join the network. And maybe now scale it up with more vendors. And now we'll be happy to answer any questions. Abdullah, we went live and remind me, Mr Ali, I think in March last year with one vendor only, March 2021. Okay, I'll answer in this particular manner that see when you need to engage at different levels, you engage in a different manner. So the higher management that is there in that particular organization, you take it from a perspective of business benefit. You were getting their voice in two to three months, you will get the money in two days. Are you interested? Yes, I am interested. So IT users, business users, operational users, operational users, if you see their challenges, well, I do more work than I do was doing previously. You have to convince him that no, you have to do less work now. So he is onboarded. So this requires certain soft skills as well to actually onboard them. It's not about technology. And what we have seen is tell anyone there is a blockchain, nobody will come and actually on board over there. Blockchain has to be at the background. It provides all those particular things which are very, very much required. But people see what is visible, right? Business see business benefits, users see how they are working or interacting with the system, make that thing, right? And you can have this particular blockchain implemented easily. So it involves those particular soft skills. I will repeat the question maybe because it was not hearable to the audience in the virtual session that is the invoice generated outside the SAP and if the invoice is being moved to SAP and updated there, right? Is this your question? Yes, the invoice is generated by the blockchain system and fed to the SAP system. And later on the payment will be carried out in the SAP system. The payment status will be updated then in the blockchain. Only the payment status. So the payment process itself will be all carried out as is now in the ERP system, in the SAP. But the status update will happen also in the blockchain. So the full end to end cycle can be visible to all parties that, okay, this invoice has been generated by the system, submitted by the vendor and paid by Saudi Aramco. Okay, now I'd like to add over here that see what happens is that with the blockchain data, the invoice is generated across. But again, it is a document which is in PDF. Now this is a weak link, right? Because this document is generated. Now it is going into the SAP system. Technically, somebody can go and modify that thing in the middle. That could happen. So how controls are put across that the document that is created, it hash is also recorded. Hash of that particular record is also recorded onto the blockchain. And that document is verifiable because when you will put that document across, you can compare that hash. So even those particular documents are kind of temper proof. So even if you try to go into the middle and try to put certain document, which is a different one, maybe a system administrator has access or do something. So that will not work out. It would be flagged across as well. So blockchain is being used and from a security and threat cases perspective, these things are seen through that such technical things are also not violated. Okay, so over here, there is a hybrid approach. Those may be trying to repeat the question in a summary. Okay, well, you are asking whether the vendors or Saudi around who they have like a new user interface, or it's only happening in the background, right? So this is the question. So good. So see, there is always a hybrid approach. There are certain mature organization who have the system organization that has a timesheet system, they are already recording that particular data, right? So system to system integration is the way. So the user works in their own system. At the back, you take those particular record and put it onto the blockchain because it has to be passed to the other organization. That's the thing. But there would be other organizations, they might not have the system. So you create a DAB distributed, this particular user interface, and that connects with their node and show that particular data beautifully, like they can see what is the status of the time sheets that they have uploaded, what stage of workflow they are there. So this is on the contractor side, they are working totally on their node. On the Aramco side, we have not created any additional user interface because they have already a SAP system which is available. So it is a combined thing, it will take the data from the SAP as well as it will take the data from the blockchain and it will also submit the data into the blockchain system as well. So that answers your question, right? Yes. We have two so let's start there please. Okay, so. The question is how long will it take to onboard the vendor? After the first vendor, everything is simple. With the challenges that we have, through security and other things, it will take longer. However, yes, if we overcome these security barriers now, which are almost following the traditional software verification cycle, we can onboard it one day as you said. Technically, okay, but what would it take for a new vendor to like do the change management or to train their users? It will take longer for sure. But technically, yeah, I can onboard them and configure and operate their node in one day. So if we see across any onboarding activity because we have been working with multiple consortium in which new participants are always added, there are certain steps. One is a technical step, you need to spend the node you need to put all those off chain components you need to create those particular users, you need to have the authentication and everything right. So this is something now technology is there like for example, you have Terraform with which you can automate it. So everything node would be spent in a matter of minutes. That's not a problem. All the hyperledger command to make the channels join the channel everything can happen. So that's not the part. The second thing is how that organization will connect. This would require certain things because no enterprise is going to allow and open the port quite much easily security teams will once again come and assess that everything is fine on both the sides. This activity typically takes time and it's nobody in control right because it is up to the security teams. The third thing is those system with people who have to use the system, they need to be trained as well. So you should keep something around a one week or two weeks training period and what they have done is that they have invited complete organizations into I think big halls and done multiple trainings with them. This is very, very much important as I was saying all the stakeholders need to be actually made aware system should be easy for them. It is not like the technical people have delivered and nobody can use it. So that's that's a very important element to it. So typically if you will go across all these activities will take around three to four weeks before they can post the first transaction. No, no. Yeah, technical perspective it is minutes but the rest of the perspective it is it's going to take time. Yeah. The time is up. Maybe we can take the question offline. Okay, because I think they notice that time is up now. So let's take the question offline. Sorry for that. Thank you all for attending. Thank you all for listening. Thank you.