 Well, this is episode 142 of give the people what they want brought to you from people's dispatch that's Zoe and Prashant Prashant in a wonderful new kurta bright and shiny talking to us from what's it called now Prashant Bharat India hard to say I'm sure Prashant is going to get to that not yet give the people what they want comes to you every single week 142 episodes 8 more till we get to 150 so happy to be with you I'm Vijay from Globe Trotters going directly to New Delhi where the G20 countries are going to need to discuss who knows what hard to say there's been a brick summit there's been NATO summits and now there's the G20 Prashant what's on the agenda for the G20 summit right a very let's say curious G20 summit coming up because while there are two angles to it I think one is sort of one of course for India this is a very prestigious G20 summit they kind of took it this year so that it would match with the elections which are coming up in 2024 there's been a huge publicity campaign around that trying to portray the summit itself as a major diplomatic achievement for the country almost actually just a regular scheduled meeting so there's nothing super impressive about it but that's been happening a lot and but I think at the summit terms what is actually going to happen away from all the you know the jazz and the kind of opening enthusiasm and all is actually what we're going to see is actually a very tense summit which is basically because the fact that the western countries and Russia and China have very substantial differences on various issues but specifically on resolutions on the Ukraine war now we have seen this at this is actually part of a trend it's part of a trend in a number of international institutions including the UN of course we have seen that wherever there's an opportunity whatever be the form the west is not hesitated to sort of bring in references to the war and their perspective on the world as you know as as essential to move take business forward and now what seems to be happening is G20 is also likely to fall into the same trap because it does look like there is no consensus on the final nature of the statement which means that they will not be heads or heads of state statement which really maybe dampen the enthusiasm as far as India's concerned but I think also sort of also goes to reflect the fact that now a lot of international diplomatic forums actually have pretty much become you know in many cases business has become difficult because the way in which this agenda is being pushed now Russia specifically has said that you know the G20 is a forum for economic cooperation it's not a forum to discuss geopolitical issues so they're like you know we don't want this issue take over this forum but as far as the United States the best concern every forum is an opportunity for that and that is likely to probably now it seems our latest reports indicated it's very uncertain there is going to be a common statement at this which also I think takes us to the larger question and the larger question being the fact that the G20 itself is in a bit of an existential crisis now we know that the G20 was created or at least gained strength after the economic global economic crisis of 2008 and it is sort of promised as the western countries expanding the club so to speak so that more economies more countries from the global south would be part of the elite group so to speak but what has happened especially in the past few years is that the US has accelerated its focus on the G7 the G7 has really become the more important block for them which means that the G20 is kind of on the one hand the powers of the global south were the G20 are having probably less of a say and on the other hand now we have organizations like Trix and Merging which has really become the most dominant you know the most attractive option for many countries we saw the huge number of countries which wanted to take part in the which wanted to be part of the block in the last summit many of these leaders actually attended the meeting there was an expansion of six countries being added in and Trix in many ways is being now seen as one of the three or four drivers which might take you know engagement global engagement in the future and the G20 itself see the increasingly a bit irrelevant at this point of time so this is the context in which the G20 summit is being held now big question is like I said whether the summit will come there are of course a lot of other issues as well this climate change this global debt you know all of these issues again where the west has a very different perspective from the from the vast majority of countries and in many of these discussions it's unlikely that we're going to see any major breakthrough although for instance on the question of debt or the interest payments or on the question of climate change that is definitely a need for urgent action but it does not look like G20 is going to be the place. Almost as if Prashant the G20 has become Bricks plus G7 a kind of reconciliation body for these two large groupings to get together and perhaps have their issues thrashed out but we'll see isn't it this is the first G20 summit since the Bricks expansion so let's see how that turns out well this is of course the weekend coming into Monday of the 50th anniversary of the coup d'etat in Chile the country at the south of South America where 50 years ago or at 11 o'clock on the 11th of September the reactionary sections of the Chilean military led by general Augusto Pinochet moved against the democratically elected popular unity government of President Salvador Allende. Allende was killed in the Moneda for presidential palace subsequently the military set up a coup regime killing thousands of people exiling many more trying to eviscerate the left about 10 days ago the leader of the communist party of Chile Guillermo Tellier died we died 10 days before the 50th anniversary of the coup people like Guillermo Tellier Gladys Marine and others picking up the mantle in the ruins of that dictatorship fought very hard for 17 years to establish democracy in the country again a very long period of military dictatorship in Chile 17 years not as long as in Brazil when the coup lasted for 21 years nonetheless in Chile the military dictatorship imported a team of technocrats many of them trained at the university of Chicago known as the Chicago Boys they came in and set up a laboratory for neoliberalism what had been a laboratory for socialism became a laboratory for neoliberalism the country really hasn't fully recovered from those 17 years of the coup despite the fact that it has now been 33 years since the re-establishment of democracy twice the length of the coup the impact of that coup has been great on this country even now a 50 year anniversary and yet the right wing especially online have been ferocious in defending the coup saying that ayende should not be celebrated that there shouldn't be any you know discussion positive discussion of mr. ayende's period in fact current president Gabriel Boric has been trying to create a pact with all political parties to say that democracy siempre they must always be democracy that they would not you know come together ever again to allow for a coup and the right wing has rejected mr. boric's plea now imagine this is merely a plea for no military intervention no extra democratic intervention into the country and the right has said we are not interested it's a fascinating conjunction at the same time right wing newspapers have been attacking the communist party which is the largest line of the left in the country an important constituent of mr. boric's government what they are trying to do is to create a rift between the communist left and the center left frankly I'm clear of mr. boric and other factions trying to create that rip they feel that they can destroy this government and then the right can rule for several election cycles the coup in other words 50 years ago has not really dissipated from life public life the debates continue around the nature of whether a left agenda is possible in a country such as chile where a center left the center government is now in power having a really hard time moving an agenda it's not that we are not able to move an agenda it appears sometimes that mr. boric's government is a government of tactics without a strategy and the communist left playing a very important role trying to advance some form of strategy for the government let's see what happens Monday the 11th of September there will be a celebration the commemoration of that coup across the country there will be marches there will be demonstrations but again it's not that a hundred percent of the population will be behind the commemoration in the way in which it will be held by the left forces in particular large sections will be there cheering on the fellowship era including former presidential candidate mr. cast who likely will run again and if indeed the right is you know has the um has the advantage of splitting the might return and come to power a dangerous time in a country like chile but nonetheless somber time a time to reflect on how horrible that military coup period had been for this country and the depth of cultural change that it's affected in a sense that was 1973 three years later there was a coup in argentina a coup comes to power equally repellent zoe in argentina today similar theme what's happening in that country well it's it's interesting that at the same time that the people of chile are also are disputing the narrative around the coup where we see right wing coming out of the woodwork to say that this was this was a good move and that these human rights violations uh didn't happen a similar process is happening right now in argentina but it's specifically linked to this electoral conjuncture as we know argentina is in the middle of a very very new and interesting electoral conjuncture where we see for the first time in since democracy was restored in argentina the peronisa forces came in third in the paso elections the primary elections and a new political force a libertarian far right fascist force led by javier nile came in first in these primary elections his uh vice presidential candidate victoria viruel uh on monday held in held an activity in the legislature of Buenos Aires in honor of the victims of communism uh she's referring to the victims of the armed groups that existed in the 70s the erp and the montoneros um and in this sort of move and this is action that they organized um it was an attempt to sort of say and she said it out rightly that the 30 000 detained and disappeared this is a false statistic and that the real victims in this situation are those that were killed by the armed left militant groups and that it was not a situation of genocide as it has been characterized not only by people on the left in argentina but international human rights organizations i mean this has been this what happened during the dictatorship i think is indisputable yet it is being disputed by the right wing um so on monday she organized this activity to say that uh we must recognize the real victims that um the left in their discourse is ridiculous that renowned human rights organizations like the abuelas and the madres of the place mayo are crooks and that they're all of what they do in the search for justice and search of their children is just a political stunt i mean these accusations while they might seem ridiculous it's it's truly um something that's terrifying because these are these are organizations that for fifth for you know decades have been fighting for the truth about their family members who have disappeared who have risked their lives for decades um in the search for justice and organizations did not say quiet in in reaction to this event being organized they were out on the streets mobilizing rejecting this negationist event that was happening and many said that this is clearly a stunt this is a political stunt to raise the profile of the campaign they're trying to further polarize argentine society which we know that in these elections are extremely polarized i mean the fact that a candidate like me lay who says he's going to dollarize the economy uh who says that he's going to dissolve the central bank who says that he's going to cut all ties with china with brazil with any other left-leaning government i mean the fact that he was getting 30 in these primaries is an indication of just how polarized and how fragile argentine society is right now and the fact that they're trying to polarize for example on uh and and weaponize this very very sensitive and fresh wound which is the wound of the dictatorship the 30 000 people who were detained and disappeared uh and trying to say that this is not true this does not happen um is is just another indication of the these sort of politics that this sector is willing to do to take control and to implement their policies which are in the end against the people of argentina which are not going to better the lives of these people who are of the 40 of the people who are suffering in poverty right now it is clear that the if javier mule says he's going to put in more austerity measures this is only going to further uh put these people in a more difficult place so uh a very very concerning development um the struggle for truth the struggle for history the struggle for memory is a live one it's an active one it is not it is clearly not this discourse is not something that we've we've won over that's been cemented and so this this continues to be an issue maybe we didn't think it would happen because of how how solidified how how proved it is but but again we're in the 2023 when truth is is not cannot be taken for granted quite right i mean truth cannot be taken for granted we have three candidates in the argentinian race Sergio masa is in a sense representing the peronist center how we've got patricia bulrich representing the right and then we have javier mule representing the far right truth is an odd duck zoe because patricia bulrich used to be a montanero she was a armed left-wing guerrilla who went into exile in brazil after the coup returns is a peronist deputy for many years and now it's completely negated her background in fact denies being a member of the montaneros uh you know an armed group that was fighting for revolution in argentina the journeys people take and then the lies they tell about their past you always give the people what they want what you want it seems masa at least is the truth about what's happening around the world zoe prashanta and i try our best to give it to you we come to you every friday we're at show 142 show 150 on the horizon don't forget to send us yourself we live for those um we're going to go back to zoe now because you know there has been an internal election in the morina ranks to have a presidential candidate put forward lots of interesting news in mexico including about abortion doi i hope you're going to give us a full package about what's happening in this important country in the world which may join the bricks next year what's happening in mexico well mexico is definitely one of the most important economies especially in the america's a large industrial power and again yes as you said two very important developments yesterday the the courts ruled that the penalization of abortion is illegal of essentially decriminalizing abortion across the country on a federal level in mexico as in many countries in the america specifically there were laws criminalizing people who both carried out abortions or both themselves or those who aided them so doctors institutions etc this ruling has essentially made that illegal that no one can be criminalized for having an abortion this is huge news especially as social rights across the continent are under attack it's not again as we're seeing this rising right in many countries of the continent it is these social rights these rights won by the feminist movements in the streets the lgbtq movements on the streets that have fought for so long to win these basic rights these are the rights that are really under attack of course in addition to the rights of the working class the labor rights that trade unions have been fighting for so this is an important victory giving kind of a legal basis and really giving yeah that legal backbone to people to being able to access this fundamental public health care right and another important victory for women as well is the election of claudio sheinbaum to be the presidential candidate of morena as you said it was an internal consultation that took place within the party months of meetings of consultations there was um the formulation of the plan for the homeland this was made in conjunction with communities and the base of morena across the country what is the future that the people of mexico want how do they want to continue the fourth transformation which is a process that was undertaken by andres manuel lopez over the heart starting in 2018 when he was elected president the fourth transformation of course is taking further uh this this plan of of transforming mexico of making it a more equal and dignified place for the people claudio sheinbaum is now the coordinator of the fourth transformation being the presidential candidate of the party uh she was uh facing off against five other people including former foreign minister marcello ebrard who objected to this process in the last couple of days before the the results were announced he had started making allegations that the process was fraudulent despite it having been conceived of and the methodology being constructed between the teams of all the six candidates they decided which pollsters were going to be used how exactly this consultation would take place and at the final hour marcello ebrard seeing the general polling showing that he would not take this first place perhaps perhaps that kind of pushed him to take this negationist accusation of fraud stance and now he has pulled out of morena and said that it's possible that he might run for president not with morena he said there's no space left for morena so we'll definitely be following that development andres manuel in his mania nera press conference said that he hopes that ebrard will return to morena and support the unity of the party as all of the other candidates have already expressed their support and comp and put their confidence behind claudio sheinbaum who is the presidential candidate for morena um already polling ahead of socita galvez who is the candidate of the the far right uh unity of pri and pan the parties that ruled over mexico for decades uh without stopping so it's going to be an interesting race two women facing off very very different plans very different projects for the country um we'll be following it of course at the end it's important for you to point out that regardless of who wins whether it's senator galvez who is coming from as you said pan a pri and prd it seems um she is facing off against claudia sheinbaum or morena whatever happens in the election mexico will have its first female president ever since it became a public i think that's a pretty significant thing even though of course both women have very difficult different political views as you rightly said and nonetheless looks like mexico will have a female president before the united states uh another interesting little snub south of the rio grand toward the north um rishabh we're going to move to africa we're going to do the last two stories of our show today on africa on the democratic republic of congo and then on gabon prc of course especially in its eastern planks have seen a lot of violence in kivu and so on danu priya saying that people's dispatch has a very good report out on some violence that's taken place there rishabh what's happening in the democratic republic of the conga right uh when early this week we saw protests in the province we were talking about kivu oxfell because after what was a massacre that took place on the 30th of august so i think estimates say that some 56 people were killed by armed forces of the drc of their own their own armed basically killing these people ahead of what was considered what was going to be a protest over a very significant issue and i think it is kind of resonates with uh you know many uh say what is happening in many of the countries right now so this had to do with the presence of un and east african east africa community east africa community forces in uh in the region now why are these forces here these forces are here because you know the democratic republic of the kong ho has been affected by insurgency from this group called n-23 now n-23 is a long history we have done shows on this before as well but basically it is pretty much up to this point that the n-23 group is supported by uh rwanda and president bar and you know this group is it's very clear that it is being armed and supported by rwanda and it is wrecked havoc in the drc taking a number of towns and it is basically to control this uh and to implement various ceasefires there is a peacekeeping force in the un peacekeeping force called monoscope and east african community force are both there now uh let's look at the un security force first monoscope and its previous force together uh like the like our report says it comprises the largest most expensive longest most expensive un human peacekeeping uh operation uh in any country in the world but what have they achieved is really the question a lot of people asked because there's no real improvement in the security condition in fact there have been even killings attributed to the monoscope force itself and now there's a huge debate over whether this force should even be there in the country in fact the drc's government itself has said that uh you know this peacekeeping force should leave peacekeeping force is also indicated that by december when there's an election in the country they leave similarly the east african community forces were deployed more recently with a very similar real but again the way they function the so-called defensive approach they've taken to provide the violations of the ceasefire all this all these have really uh you know made the people of the drc very very angry and of course uh also important to consider the fact that the eac uh the grouping which sent these forces has rwanda and rwanda two countries responsible for millions of deaths in the drc so it's natural that the people are asking that these countries which are responsible for these millions of deaths are rwanda which is openly backing the n23 is the country deciding on what forces to set to counter the n20 so this absurd situation that is there uh is what has you know is the larger issue at hand and people try to speak out there was a massacre but they have been there's been a lot of unhappiness on this in the drc now another force is against it to come to the drc to the satc the south african and the southern african community's forces now whether what role they will play whether they'll sort of have a different role is actually a very important question remains to be seen but i think important to sort of end with this aspect of the uh various you or various unimped skipping forces which really often failed to do their job last thing we talked about 80 which is another example of a peacekeeping force which is actually in fact caused a lot of havoc so uh you know uh the issue of security itself again playing out in other countries in africa uh and how do you counter these these are actually very important debates in the entire and then let's go from the drc in some few minutes we have to grab on where there was a coup it's the eighth coup actually in the past three years on the african continent following the coups most recently in burkina faso mani um and nijer uh this coup has been interesting because it's sort of followed the pattern of nijer with one exception the pattern is thus the military came in over through a um what was supposed to look like a democracy although the amount is slightly different the situation in nijer in the sense that the bongo family had ruled there for 42 years resembling more the um situation in nijer where both papa dog duvalier and then baby dog were in power for almost five decades um very similar to the gamon story nonetheless the coup in gamon took place military officer general oligwude took power and very quickly brought in reyman dong sima as the prime minister now mr sima is an interesting person because he had been in the government of mr bongo in 2012 2014 he had in fact run for office for the presidency against mr bongo and was the leader of the opposition very similarly and this is the similarity with nijer the military in nijer brought in ali lame zane into office mr ali lame zane had been a minister of economy in the previous government these are experience in a sense mainstream politicians in their countries that have now come in with the military to form a military civilian government it's hard to call them a military coup because the military did initiate the coup but without elections has turned over the reins of administration to various figures of the opposition and in this case mr oligwude has promised elections although no time frame once again the gamon has been expelled from the central african economic community just as ecobas the economic commission of west africa expelled nijer bhukhina faso in maali the difference between gamon and in nijer is in fact the anti-french sentiment in gamon is not very strong so oligwude has also said that he is open to talking to all parties i think it's an error to judge this to be just the same as the new data in nijer this is a coup against the 42 year old effective dictatorship that has reached the country of its wealth and here let's see what happens with mr raman sima as prime minister mainstream politicians are not given to wild rhetoric one way or the other it's an open question where gamon will go but again a great interest to us we're following it closely not trying to be premature in our judgment watching waiting trying to bring you the most credible news possible both their people's dispatch and globetrotter which together brings you give the people what they want brought to you every friday and also as a podcast show number 142 over and out