 Live from Las Vegas, Nevada, it's The Cube. Covering EMC World 2015. Brought to you by EMC, Brocade and VCE. We're back at EMC World 2015. This is Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. Vic Bogatis here, he's the CIO of EMC, runs a very large organization. Vic, it's great to see you again. Thanks for coming. Thank you for having me back. I'm delighted to be back. You're more than two years in now. We were talking off camera. So now you own this thing. So I want to start with some of the themes that we heard from David Goulden's presentation. He talked a lot about what we hear from many CIOs and executives about the digitization of their businesses. Everybody's moving digital. If you eat a piece of fruit, it disappears. But if you consume a piece of digital music, everybody can consume it and you get these different economies of scale. What does this whole digitization mean to EMC? You know, really, it's been two and a half years now. So no easy questions, huh? You had to, like goes right after the meat of the thing. You know, so great question. David highlighted, this is the age of information generation, right? Everything is being consumed in a digital way. But digital has been around for a while. The issue has now become that there is an enormous amount of data. Now, whether you're talking about music, whether you're talking about video, whether you're talking about sensor data, all of these things are generating enormous amount of data. How do you harness all this data to really enable your company to grow? How do you enable this, how do you enable the company and accelerate their growth? So the challenge that's upon all businesses right now is to really digitize the way they operate. So for example, you know, we do a lot of manual processes. How do you automate them? Great, we'll bring applications and mobile applications to automate that. But can we truly digitize the end-to-end project, an end-to-end program that drives a cycle time reduction for the end output? And the end output is, how do you help the company grow? How do you help the company harness all this data to become much more intelligent? So this is what David was touching about this morning is the age of digitization is upon us. Everything that we talk about, cloud, big data, social, mobile, digital, security, it's converging on IT right now. If there's any time to be a CIO, I truly believe this is the time to be a CIO. So for you, within EMC, it's not necessarily, it might be someday, but it's not necessarily about harnessing the data and monetizing it or selling the data. It's about reducing the elapsed time to get stuff done and making the organization more productive, is that right? It is, you know, so when we're doing NPI, right? How do I cut down the cycle time to do new product introduction? How do I squeeze the whole timeline by leveraging all of the data and the intelligence to help my product guys to deliver products faster? Or if we're responding to customers, we do a lot of monitoring of our hardware. How can we do predictive monitoring for our customers so the entire setup doesn't come down, right? So if we're going to say, hey, drive number six on bay number two and chassis number three is about to fail, rather than let it fail and bring the entire chassis down and it's offline. Right, those are the kind of things that digitization will allow us because there's sensor data that's generating data in milliseconds. How can we harness that, digitize that and provide intelligence back to the customer? So you're like a lot of 20 plus billion dollar companies that were founded in the late 1970s, early 1980s. The average age of your applications got to be, you know, decades old. You've got silos that you're contending with. Everybody talks about 70% of the investment goes on keeping the lights on, 30% on innovation. I like to think of run the business, grow the business, transform the business. Running the business is still really important. So how do you transform from that sort of legacy approach that you inherited, I'm teasing your predecessor, he's a good friend, and how do you go from there to where you want to be? And I know pieces of that had started before you got there, but you really had to dive in and so much has changed in the last two and a half years. And it's not just about, you know, me or every CIO in the enterprise is dealing with legacy blues. Okay, legacy is the anchor that you have. It's going to hold you back, right? And when we start looking at, Dave, majority of our spend is on supporting the systems. How do you really, you know, when you're talking about digitization and stuff, how do you digitize a lot of that capability so you can squeeze that spend and invest in the forward-looking technologies? So the challenge that I have, you know, at EMC, as any other CIO with large enterprises is, I still have legacy blues, which I can't shut down because my ownership bill runs on it, my financials run on it, you know, my supply chain runs on it, so I can't shut it down. But then I have the new generation you're talking about, you know, all the information generation that's coming in, right? We can't hire these people and give them a brick and put them in a cage and say, go work, right? They say, you know what, Vic? I had better equipment at college than coming to a technology company and the stuff you're giving me and having me do that. So you have to think contemporary. So at that time you have to start looking at your technology stack, you have to look at your people, your organization, and what are the processes that you're trying to automate and digitize? So that's the cycle. The technology part is the easy part. I'm a CIO, I control the technology. I can standardize on x86, which is what we did and my predecessor started that journey, right? Now I'm looking at all of the organization, I've redefined all the jobs, all 2,000 jobs of IT jobs have been redefined. I no longer have this traditional IT organization. I have a much more contemporary organization. And then the next thing is, how do we start addressing the end-to-end processes to drive the cycle time reduction? Yeah, so Vic, I wonder if you can, you know, unpack that a little bit more for us between kind of the legacy applications, the modern applications. You know, I know you've talked a lot about getting rid of the silos. So, you know, is there one platform that you build everything on? Is it kind of, you know, the old stuff that you keep here and are going to keep running? Because, you know, we never get rid of anything in IT. You know, how do you manage that transition? You know, I'd love to say it's a leading question, but Stu, you know, you and I have never met formally, so I can't say that's a leading question, but it's a great question. And the reason I'm so excited about it is because when I look at the 70,000 employees of EMC globally, 69,999 of them think they can do my job every single day. Right, technology company, that's the challenge I have. And they're probably right. So how do I create a very elastic environment for them? Why don't I create an environment that any employee who's got the passion to write an app can go on a website and say, just give me this container and I can write my app and put it into production? Why do I have to call IT? So this is how we have to think about a contemporary IT. This is how we have to think about a flexible IT and a consumption-based IT, right? So every employee that has got the passion of writing an app and wants to put it in my app store, go ahead, do it, okay? But I will build the guardrails around it. I will have security built in, not a bolt-on. It won't be an afterthought. So one of the things we're doing, Stu, the question that you asked is, we are now getting ready to launch Platform as a Service. Everything is going to be on Pivotal Cloud Foundry, right? And all of the other stuff that a developer needs, databases, MongoDB, or you need customer data, and you want this security profile to be, and it's going to be on the internal cloud, you can do that with a click of a button. So you got a suite of services that you can provide to those developers. Exactly. What about this notion of like low-code developers or even no-code developers? Does that's something that's starting to take shape? You know, I think it's very relevant to some of the things we're exploring is crowdsourcing, right? Does it all have to be developed internally, right? Why can't I just put it out there and have people bid at it and just say, hey, I can write the best app for you what you want this app to do, right? Why does it all have to be inside the enterprise? You know, one of the things that from an EMC, again, it's not a plug, but I'll tell you, you know, the enterprise hybrid cloud is the greatest thing, right? That can really help the CIOs think through differently of how to cloudify the environment. So you have a hybrid cloud that sits right in between the EMC. It can talk to the external, it can talk to the internal, and it's a well-protected environment. So you can truly collaborate with the outside world and your enterprise. Vick, can I ask a question on that? So, you know, look at EMC, you guys use Salesforce. Yes. How do the other things that are outside the federation, because, you know, I got to imagine there's Office 365, there's Salesforce, there's things like that. How do those fit into your overall IT strategy? Do they fit into the enterprise hybrid cloud? Very well, so there are three things that I have asked my team, my challenge. I said, you know, there are things that are commodity, that's core, and that's IP. So from a commodity perspective, you know, we should be at 70, 30, 70% outsourced. It's commodity, we can buy it, you can negotiate the price. Core should be the other way, 70, 80% in source because you are now a subject matter expert about your own business. And then IP should be more like a 60, 40. How do I leverage my partners? How do I leverage my vendors? How do I leverage those folks to actually generate that IP for the business? So these are the three categories that we're trying to do. And the enterprise hybrid cloud actually fits in very nicely because it gives us a gateway to actually collaborate with the outside world. So when I think about enterprise hybrid cloud, I think it's something you said earlier, you've got 2,000 people in your organization and you've been transforming their skill sets as well. So enterprise hybrid cloud, you sort of an intimated. Technology's the easy part. It's everything around it. So when you think about what a CIO has to do to put in an enterprise hybrid cloud, you don't really buy it, right? You have to architect it. So can you talk about what you guys went through? So cloud is not something you just want to buy and just want to put it there, right? You have to change the basics of how you are going to develop your app and how your app is going to behave with the processes that you have in your business. That's how you construct the cloud. It's very easy for me to sit here with a CIO and say, I want an internal cloud or I want a hybrid cloud, I want an external cloud. I can buy a cloud in a box, we can have VCE or we can have the new product we launched. That's a cloud in a box, we can put it. I'll put it outside my DMZ, that's my external cloud, I can put in my DMZ, a hybrid cloud, put that inside my DMZ, I got an internal cloud. But what does that really solve? I haven't really questioned the fundamental of how I am delivering the solutions to the business. Yeah, you're paving the cow path in that example. Exactly, right? This is how the business has to become a partner, a co-inventor, a co-innovator with IT of how do you want to harness whether it's big data or how do you want to use the economies of the cloud scale? So what's an example of how you've leveraged that platform with the business in sort of a transformation example? So one of the things that I talked about just now is the platform as a service, right? It is all on the internal cloud right now. So we build this internal cloud to give our developers the freedom. Very slowly, we're going to start migrating and adding the hybrid capability so they can actually get open source from the outside. So once you have the basic fabric in place, right, and you give them an environment without threatening them that we are controlling, right? It's a trusted environment. And then you start giving them gateways of giving them access to open systems or the open internet where you can actually share information. This is how you start building that credibility and you start building that roadmap by giving that elasticity back to the business. So you mentioned trust a couple of times. Thinking about the last two, two and a half years since you've come to EMC, how has the security agenda evolved now? Talk about that a little bit. The security is something that is extremely near and dear to everyone in the enterprise. I heard Joe Tucci this morning talk to a whole bunch of CXOs this morning and talking about, you know, there isn't a single article that talks about cybersecurity where cybersecurity is actually doing a great job for a company. Yeah, we're done, right? You never read that article, right? Exactly, right. It's always something nasty happens that it becomes a newsworthy article, right? Because it's given that it's going to be a trusted environment. It's going to be a safe environment for people to work in. So the challenge upon the enterprise and especially for IT folks is to create that environment that's a trusted environment that has all the, for lack of a better word, the protections around the system. And I call security has to be translucent, not transparent, because transparency will give you the false sense of, you know, protection. Translucency says that you know there is security and that you have to behave the way you operate in an environment. Yeah, so Vic, one of the things that struck me in the keynote is David Golden was talking about how, you know, the project can't be those two year ERP rollouts. You know, they're really kind of, you know, much faster. You know, they're cloud enabled. They're things like big data, which I should spin up. You know, how do you get your organization ready for things like that? I mean, it's very different mindset, you know, doing the lots of small stuff versus the big ones. You know, myself and I'm sure, you know, a lot of my peers are facing the same challenge, right? Because from a traditional IT, we are so used to having an ERP conversation with the customer, right? Give me $10 million, give me 24 months, I'll build a Taj Mahal. And we are damn good at it. Really good, we pride ourselves. But now take that conversation to a CMO or a chief digital officer or, you know, he says, and I go to him or her and I say, I want to run the next, I want to help you run the next campaign. I will build you the world-class mobile app, give you the best website, you know, put it on all the social media capability. Give me $10 million, 24 months, I'll build it for you. What do you think the response is going to be? See, my campaign lasts only six weeks. You know, I can't wait for 24 months. So you really have to change the conversation that you're having with the business, because you got to understand what is the business really trying to deliver? And do you have the right IT in place to deliver with that instant gratification mindset? Otherwise, what's going to happen is, forget the 10 million, they're going to go somewhere else, spend $12 million, get it in six weeks and go to IT and say, IT support it. And then I'm left holding the bag because now I have no idea what the technology is. So I end up doing an annuity deal with that person who did that solution for me and it's a never-ending game. So I have to fundamentally change the way IT operates and cannot afford to have the conversation in ERP terms. It's got to be much more contemporary. It's got to be much more agile. It's got to be much more embedded with the business and solving the business issues. We're coming up to the end of our segment, but I wanted to ask you about your thoughts and the role of the CIO. There's a lot of discussions going on in our community and others about the future of the CIO. You've mentioned this is the chief digital officer. This is the chief data officer. There's the COO, the CTO. Everybody's saying the CIO needs to be more of a business person or choose. Even some of your own colleagues that have been on this cube have said, well, we're not really sure about the future of the CIO. Future of the CIO, is it the best time ever to be a CIO or is it the beginning or the end? Yeah, I firmly believe in my opinion and if there's any time to be a CIO, now is the time. I'm sure you've watched a movie called A Few Good Men and then Jack Nicklaus and Tom Cruise kind of in that little courtroom drama and all that stuff. And Jack Nicklaus says about Guantanamo Bay and he talks about it and he says, you need me on the wall, you want me on that wall. What I say is you need me in IT, you want me in IT because I'm the one who's going to try to help solve this for the business. Now, coming back to the question, is the CIO's job a chief information officer, a chief innovation officer, chief infrastructure officer, chief integration officer? Yes, it's all of it. We have to rethink on how we partner with the business. Right, we have a seat at the table, it's our seat to lose if we don't deliver. Excellent. Vic Bagat, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. Congratulations on the moves you've made, the success we'll be watching. Hopefully you can join us in future shows. Dave and Stu, thank you so much for having me here. It was a delight. Our pleasure. Right there, buddy, we'll be back with our next guest right after this. We're live from EMC World 2015 in Las Vegas. We'll be right back.