 Are you guys ready? All set? Yes. OK, welcome to the Essex Junction trustee meeting. Please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Welcome, everybody. I think we, if you haven't signed in, please do so. Pat? Yes. First order of business. Agenda additions. We have several of them. I think they're all going in the meeting file. Is that correct? I think you're right, sir. We don't know where I put them. Here they are. I'll model this file. We have an email from Ewan Cameron. And it's going to be part of item 6B. With that, there's something that was sent on the Winter Parking Band from our municipal code. Then we have an email from Jim Jutris. That's going to be part of the reading file. And a missive from Mona Shepherd regarding governance and transparency for the reading file as well. And that's it, sir. OK, I think I just want to mention that the Jim Jutris one, I might go over that in detail when we get to the reading file. That's OK. It's not something that requires a decision, so we're all up to date on what's happening. It's regards to Amtrak reconstruction. OK. So first, next order of business. Audience, to be heard, any guests? Have questions? Comments? Not on the agenda tonight. OK, thanks. And so we are then on to, and we don't have any public presentations so we're on to old business, which is to, oh, we need to approve the agenda. Sorry, do I have a motion to approve the agenda as amended? Move, we approve the agenda as amended. I'll second. All in favor? All right. So let's move on to, I guess, we're going to old business. And that's a review of the FY19 proposed budget. And Pat and Lauren, I think you wanted to take us through a few changes. Go right ahead. They're pretty minimal. Right. In the street department, we had adjusted stormwater salaries, and I had neglected to adjust the retirement. And there were comp amounts, and so I had $178 there. Parks and Rec, we didn't have a chance before the budget day to adjust his workers comp and his liability insurance. So we just increased the workers comp by $1186 and reduced liability and property insurance by the same amount, so that was no change to the bottom line of the budget. And then in the recreation programs, we increased their workers comp by $6,533, but increased revenue as well by $6,533. So the bottom line of the programs didn't change either. The estimated percentage increased in the budget remained at 3.8% and the estimated tax rate is still 0.3142. OK. Thank you. Because the net change of this is $178, right? Yeah, it's like negative. Does anyone have any other questions for Lauren and Pat at this time about the budget? I just had one clarification I was thinking about on the way home today. So some of the costs in here are for additional staff, which would be shared with the town. So the town obviously has to go through the budget process. And if they take that out, are we taking ours out? Not like we're going to hire without both parties jointly deciding. Thank you. Well, during that discussion, we didn't have the full agreement on the splitting of the two new positions or the new positions in general. So I'm assuming that we're not going to talk about that today, right? If you're going to talk about it, I think if you want to talk about it, this would be the time if you want to talk about it. For recollection purposes, the fact that our newly appointed police chief to be this week represented 40% of the IT budget as MIS director. So we have to make that part up. And in addition to that, we've taken on all the work in the village and above and beyond that, what's really added to that workload has been recreation. So all the work that used to be done by the schools for IT is now going to be done by the central IT department. And so therein is the person needed. And so 34% of a person who would be working to help meet all the increased demand is going to be what the village share would be. The rest of it would be your town hat share. I'm sorry, it's just one person. Yes, just one person. Two people, human resources. No, but the human, yeah, well, that was just starting. Oh, OK. Yeah. Now, the human resource position is one that we thought about doing last year. It's a full-time position for the town and the village. And we didn't. We went out and recruited for basically what Ian Myers was doing, somewhat ratcheting of the HR part of that. So we got a benefits slash HR person to go along with the administrative system duties. That is in for a full-time position in the town. Also going to be about 34%. And Lauren did the calculations two different ways, number of people, number of employees, and per capita. And it both came out 34% shared for the village and the rest for the town. That also is a great relief for our combined clerk, who was also doing personnel work for the village. So we take that away from that person's workload, which is a good thing. And put it into somebody who is really on top of all the current HR things. And admittedly, we do need that professional experience. So now, whether or not that gets through is a question I can't answer, because we're a little behind the limits of town. It's a little behind the village and the budget request. But I can tell you that my mouth will be at 110 miles an hour on the HR person and the negative person. Hopefully, five new requests that are in the budget, those two are the ones that have the greatest return on investment and the ones that have the greatest need. So be working hard for that. And I wasn't trying to dispute the need for HR or the MIS person. Where I was coming at it from was, we have Lorne, who is a town employee. Do you step for a small portion for the water? Right, is it just the water? Water and sanitation, I'll pay for a little bit of the need. Right, so except for. And then Deadman does, too, for me at this meeting, so. OK. That kind of thing. But outside. I am a town employee. In the day-to-day operations, you are a town employee. So in my mind, I don't understand why we would then have a different philosophy and a different practice for other positions that, like the HR and the MIS, where the village will receive services from just like we are with Lorne. So just having the two different mindsets for positions, I struggle with. OK, but don't struggle too hard, because I think that after the next year, I think that's going to be solidified, would be my guess. So why? Susan and I are kind of exchanging our positions. She works for the village, gets paid for by the village, but works for the town as well. And I work for a little bit by the town, work for the village, too, and get. So we're kind of pro-crawler. So those two positions are kind of equal to each other out. So Susan is 100% out of the village? She's 100% village. Yes, and doing both. And you're 100% well, town and doing both. And that's the good pro-crow in that regard. But I guess I'm confused by your statement of in a year that will be, that won't matter. I don't think it will. I'm making a prognostication that the entire manager's office under the unified manager new three-year contract for unified manager. If I were a betting person, which I am, I would say that all of the manager's office will be unified, which includes the HR position. So that will be one department, one thing. And I guess why don't we do it? And that's hard to take away from your position. You're going exactly where I was going to go. Why don't we just do that now? Because it's just one person, right? Not like there's a department, there's two. Well, yeah. IT and HR. Yeah. But I mean, there's one HR department. Yes. Just one person. There's one. For one going in there, I guess. IT department. And then the HR would be a full-time position. Now when that person becomes full-time in HR, we have to make up the administrative assistant part of that for the manager's office in the town. And that's partially why the shared cost arrangement makes sense. I'm sorry. So what are we making up? I don't mean to be a pain, but what are we making up an administrative assistant position in that way? Well, yes. Oh, yeah. Because the person who's currently doing the HR work in the town is also the administrative assistant, is the patty for the town. So we've got one person doing two jobs right now, which is a common thing that I strive for. But the HR need and the HR demand is vast, and we are way behind, and we can't afford to be way behind. Neither of us can. So to have that expertise for the town and the village is paramount. Right. But if we're trying to consolidate, why don't we just keep along that path and continue to have the HR and the MIS person pay for through the town? I don't know that it would sell. I don't know that I could get it sold, and then it would be lost. And then I'm being with probably out of the person that's currently there, and we would be going backwards at a time when we have to keep going forwards with our skill level and our expertise. But so if it wouldn't sell today, I guess why would it then sell in a year, which I'm assuming you don't have the crystal ball yet? Not yet. Bad boy. But so is this a conversation that we have at a joint meeting to continue down this path? Well, I think in deference to February 26th, new manager and this is a bit of a learning curve, yes, and there may be some better approach than the one that I'm following right now that will work. I'm looking at the sellability of getting a desperately needed position by having it shared, pretty much like the manager and other shared positions are peen and among us until we get to a point where you have a better handle on governance. I see you there within a year, within a year and a half. And that's what I think. I mean, I know new positions with public dollars are not easy, so at the same time, they are needed in the advancements in IT and the numerous rules in HR, it's an absolutely needed position. I'd rather see us continue the philosophical stance that we're trying to consolidate. And the more we can do that now, the easier it's going to be in the future. So by having it be a piecemealed approach of the town page for this, the village page for this, I think is against our consolidation efforts. I would probably be more sympathetic with the argument to the position that you're raising if they weren't new positions, they weren't brand new positions. I think the fact that they're brand new adds another dimension to it. One, it makes it harder to sell. And two, the cost sharing approach is, I think a good thing. I don't know that we're getting, I've been told quite often since the budget went to the legislator body that with the new positions, the budget went up 7.2%. Without the new positions, the budget went up 3.6%. So what's sellable to the taxpayer and irrespective of need to the organization is something that's going to have to be ironed out between now and probably the 22nd when the board select board goes through their cutting. And the questions that we have to ask and answer and when I see me, I mean mostly Greg, but in Travis, all right, HR person is what will happen if we don't have these positions in terms of lost work, lost opportunity? What can they, do they all have to start on day one? Can they be staggered or throughout the course of the fiscal year? And what happens if none of them get funded? So I'm trying to look at ways that police department is looking for two new people. Yes, that's really needed. You have asked, can we have more services provided for different things? The answer is, yeah, but it's going to be overtime costs and do we have the people to do it? The simple answer is no, we do not in terms of assignments. Will the two new people do that? No, but it will make it a whole lot easier to do with those costs when we do make those special selection for enforcement assignments. The IT person doesn't come in, or I think we're hurting for certain on help desk sorts of issues with the increased demand. If the HR person doesn't come in, will we die and go to heaven or die and go to hell? No, I don't think so at all. And so that's going to be a hard one to sell. So, sellability, I hate to sound like a broke salesman here, but I think that getting us to the full consolidation at a point where we have all the people that we need to have a full organization in today's world. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, I'm thinking what happens if nothing happens? Well, the next manager will have to pick up that ball and come up with a better approach to financing these positions. It's not a function of need. Need has been established. It's a function of affordability. Okay, but I think we're at a point where really the finance, and I understand what you're saying, I just see it as this is where finance drifts into the area of politics because the town budget is going to go up, how much, but put right now the draft, the staff proposal is 7.2% with the five new positions. And ours is going up, not even half about half of that. So, I'm just looking at it. I'm not trying to, I get totally what you're saying, totally understand what you're saying. But if it's a situation where consolidation, the burden, the expense of consolidation and growth is placed entirely on the town budget and the village doesn't do anything right now, even though ultimately we see ourselves transitioning out of this, then it might be a very difficult, it makes it a little bit tougher. See, put yourself in the situation of the select board going, at town meeting, trying to present this and saying, if someone asks the question, well, how much is the village paying towards this person who's also going to be doing work in the village and the answer is, well, nothing. So, that's my, that's my plain black and white. It's not really nothing though. Hey, is that because we are paying? I get that, folks. No one understands that dynamic better than me, but this is where you get into the zen of the village in the town. And so, I think that's all I'm saying. I'll stop after this, but so the way that I see it is you do it now, or we do it later, but it's either now or later, why not just rip the bandit off, do it now to get it done, instead of do it later, then get into the conversations of, the budget's going to go down by this, much over here, or it's going to go down by this, much over here, it's going to go up by this, much over here, instead of it just goes up now. Gotcha. And then it's easier down the road. And my other point then would be, I would be curious what the town budget impact would be if the MIS person, which as I would assume is the more critical piece in terms of positions, if that were to start at the beginning of the fiscal year or whenever it needs to happen, but then the HR director would wait six months or wait half the year, and then, so that way half of the impact is realized in the next year. That's probably how it's, I'm not going to say, I'm not going to make any prognostications. But just whatever that might end up being, if that's possible. Those permutations will be discussed, I'm sure at great length, and we have to do that. The staff has to prepare that and have that discussion with the board on the 22nd. If you'd like to come to the meeting to help that point, I mean, it's over meeting, please. I have a slightly different question on this topic. It's more about timing. Yes. So if the select board chooses to pull out these two positions and not present it and keeps with the police, say, do we have an opportunity, or is it too late, to relook at our budget to determine if that money that we currently have in there could be wisely used somewhere else within the village? Or is our budget... Our budget's not set. Our budget is totally up for negotiation right now. So. Right, but... We usually adopt it on February 12th, first meeting. And then, so the select board adopts theirs first. Yes. Is what I'm asking. Oh, I see. Okay, I didn't understand. So we, because we would have to wait to hear from them what they're adopting to then determine if we have time to relook at our budget to say, well, these things have come up since then or we would like to invest in this and we have this money now. So it sounds like we'll have at least one meeting to do that. If the select board doesn't move forward with the recommendations. Okay, thank you. I had a slightly different, that might help here. Looking at our budget and looking at one of the biggest increases is, but we have a $54,000 increase in salary for the fire department. Which the fire department didn't ask for. The fire chief didn't ask for. We're doing it conceptual because of the concept of equilibrating the two departments. So we're trying to equalize the pay grade of the two departments. And so I had the thought of perhaps maybe phasing in that increase, that the pay, the equalization increase half this year, half next year. Which would leave $22,000, $27,000. It's not a lot of money, but it's significant. It's a significant chunk. It would be $27,000 more salary than the fire department is currently getting. So it's a pay increase for them. It moves us in the direction of pay equity between the two departments. But it doesn't take us all the way there. And it gives us a little bit more money to play with to absorb some of these, maybe absorb that cost. But that's just a thought I had. And I like that idea, especially because of, and again, I'm bad on the timing of everything. But I know that the money is going towards training and then tied to that as the percentage increase in the number of calls they have to go on. But my understanding was that wasn't even happening. That push on the percentage, was it happening at the start of the fiscal year? Was it happening six months later that it would give us that time to phase it in? Because they may not be needing those dollars. So I like that idea. One other thing can I just say. When Chris Caboria came and spoke to us, he mentioned something that tying the service to the number of calls that they show up on. So if people aren't showing up, which some have been up and doing so, that's gonna cut down costs right there. So I thought that part of the incentive for people to show up would be the extra pay. So who knows, it's very dynamic. And- Like you just get half pay as opposed to no pay. Right, right. And it was for training, like you said. But if they still in state the standards of, they gotta meet this many calls per whatever year, and they're not doing that, they're gonna cut the numbers anyway. So I don't know- Right, and I don't think that goal goes in right away. I think it does. It does. In his letter he says, chief, a minimal fire call attendance give our requirement to be measured twice annually. So I think it goes in the beginning of the year. July 1st, okay. Yeah, measured it in December and- I thought for some reason that was the end of the year. And isn't the town paying for a consultant to help with the consolidation or aligning of policies and practices? We are. Well, yes. So the only reason why I bring that up is, I just wouldn't wanna derail any kind of progress that they're making without checking with them and seeing what, excuse me, impacts that may have. That's the only place I was gonna- Understood. Yeah, understood, I'm not- I really think that if you wanna go any further into this conversation, you'll need to be in executive session under personnel, because what I would have to say to you is we're violating somebody's rights to privacy. So if you wanna continue on with that line, we can probably, at the end of the meeting, have a short executive session so that I can fully answer that question. Well, let me just, before making a decision, when, let's just step back and consider it. We've got a couple of different questions on the table. They might be some others too. When do we, when are we making the final decision about the budget? Well, the 27th, so the 27th of February? 27th is the warning, that's the warning for the annual case. No, no, no, no, no. We've set the budget the first meeting in February. Our public hearing's 23rd. That would be what the- I don't know what the date is, so February 13th, February 13th. Okay, so we've got at least another meeting, if not two before we have to make final decisions here. I just wanted to point that out. We don't, we're not making, we don't have to hammer every single thing out tonight. This is really, I think the point of this is to just, is to get some of these questions and ideas on the table. And we can have an executive session to hear about this, but I just wanted to just to throw that in and see if anyone else has other questions or suggestions about what to do with the budget so that we can maybe approach it all coherently and then come back with, because giving in one area and taking in another might work out. No, any other thoughts? So I mean, really what we're looking at is the, what I'd like to, you know, Andrew, Laurie, are you, what are you thinking in terms of our budget and asking for the two new positions in the town? Are you saying you would like to see that amount of money removed from the village budget or what, how strong are you feeling? Is this question or suggestion? Do you want to bring this to a vote? Or what is your, what is your feeling about this? I'd like to see the two new positions to come from the town's budget and not our budget. And then whatever, then the conversation about what to do with that, those funds, I'd like to see that separate from this conversation. Okay. I would also like to see them come from the town, but I understand why we're asking, why we're asking it not to be, so I'm comfortable with the way it is. And then if the select board says we are not funding these two positions, I'd like to have a conversation. Just curious on the cost for these two, but are our portion, our 34% or whatever, what that equates to? The two of them, let's see. If you have that. Two of them is 38, 274 for both of them. Okay. So it's just the salary amount. Yeah. Not the benefits, as we do with them. The two of them are 38,000. Total? Yeah, total. And then benefits may be another. No. No, we don't. The village doesn't pay for the benefits. It's the same kind of deal that you have made. Good. Sub-38,000. And... You were saying about the fire department, so you're gonna cut 27 out of the fire department or 20, whatever it was, I thought it was 27 or what was it? 27 is half of the difference. So 27, so we're talking another $11,000 difference. If we did that, to offset that deal is 1,000, so whatever. We can mull it over. We don't have to decide to do it. We won't know until... Yeah, well, let's get it. I'd like maybe get to more of a consensus about how we feel on the specific question of the two new positions. Do we, are we okay with having half the cost coming out of the village or what are our feelings? Elaine? It's 34%. It's 34%. 34%. Yeah, everyone else okay? And that doesn't mean your point is very well taken. I get it. So that kind of helps knowing where we are. And then do we wanna go into executive session at the end of this real quick to have Pat explain to us what the salary situation for the salary increase situation for the fire department? It's the personnel, it's a response to the question about having somebody in the employee of the town be the shepherd. Okay. So do you wanna, I don't see a problem with that if it's just to simply clarify a bunch of things. If you think it would clarify it. No, I don't clarify it. I don't have a burning desire to. Okay. But then what about the idea? Again, I'm not pushing it really that strong. I just threw it out there as a suggestion. The $57,000 increase in the fire department salary, which again, they didn't ask for. We're just giving it to them to align the pay with the town. If we face that in over two years as opposed to one year, that would give us close to not exactly half but of the other positions that we're funding. Do you wanna, any thoughts about that or should we stay with that? I thought about that just real quick. I think I'd like to consult with Chris Gamorio on that before we just go and do something like that. Or I mean at least have Pat and the manager consult with him maybe on that because maybe he's really. Okay, all right. I'll sit up and be good with that. I wouldn't be averse to considering that regardless. It might not be a bad idea to face that in a significant increase. Yeah, I mean it's again, it's not something that they would even expect. They were lobbying for. It's just something we decided conceptually in order to bring alignment. Okay, so why don't we do that? We'll mull it over, get some answers, generally get a sense maybe from Chris about how that will impact in terms of alignment and we'll make a decision. Any other questions about the budget? Any other suggestions at this point? Okay, thank you. There's also an updated capital plan. The plan I gave out to you on budget day, the beginning balance was wrong. And so I was giving you a new sheet. Didn't change the amount that we've got budgeted for FY 19. Still to land one. I don't know what you mean by, I think you didn't change the amount that we've got budgeted for FY 19. Don't invite me. That was good to be my public relief for everybody. Suri did not sign in though. Yeah. It went black. How about a web search for. Okay, that's awesome. Sorry, my apologies to the audience there. So I corrected the beginning balance. Gotcha. It was quite substantially wrong. And the effect is that we had, I had to move some things out after FY 21 and so I'll have to get a new sheet to you, Andrew, for the capital committee as well. Thank you. Okay, so we have just a recommendation that we acknowledge these changes to the capital plan. So are we, do we have to vote on acknowledging it or do we all just acknowledge it? Are we good? Acknowledged. A well-acknowledged. A well-acknowledged. Thank you, Lauren. So anything else regarding budget? So we'll be, we'll revisit it at next meeting and let me emphasize again, it go over again if there's anything else, any other questions here, still up for grabs. So we're on to new business, which is CCRPC grant application for a parking study and Darby is gonna walk us through this one, come on up Darby. Thank you. Thank you. So this grant was actually very fortuitously timed with the other parking issues that happened to come on the agenda. So as you will know, there have been, there's been a lot of development in the Village Center District. There's been a lot of discussion about parking. Do we have enough? Do we need more? Is it in the right places? So we are interested in applying for a grant to hire a consultant to figure out what we need for parking if we have it and what can be done to change it for the better or if everything is great and we don't need anything to be done. So the cost figure would be, we would be requesting 50,000. That is a bit of an estimate because we would have to go and get an RFQ for a consultant. But then the total project cost would be 60, which would be the project cap, but it's anticipated that it would probably come in as less than that. So any questions? When is the grant to be decided on? To be at the application deadline, I believe is the 19th. And then is it a grown or is there a, did they come back and tell you within 30 days or six months or March? I'm not 100% about that. Just trying to get an idea. Yeah. A lot of timing tonight. Okay, thank you. Darby, what is gonna be, I'm not sure at this point, this is informative, you may not be able to answer, but so I don't wanna put you on the spot, but what level of involvement is there gonna be with Village staff and how does this gonna work? How's the study gonna move forward? I'm gonna hire a consultant, but they're gonna be working with Robin in the planning commission or how does this all work out, do you know? That, there would definitely be levels of involvement. It wouldn't be the consultant just goes on their own and six months later, they come back and hand a report. There would be, no matter what the format would be, there would definitely be a relationship with staff and boards and the public at large. Mm-hmm, okay. I mean, yeah, because it's a lot of development, already underway or pending and so that would have to figure into the mix of how what's gonna happen, just coming in now, you're just getting a snapshot and a year from now, there could be some other buildings here that weren't, so we wanna make sure that that's all taken into account and obviously the needs, our needs, as we see them have to be somehow factored into this. Mm-hmm, definitely. The goal is to take everyone's needs, developers, the people who live here, the people who wanna come here to do things, business owners, to try to take everyone's needs and to make the fairest parking plan possible and the most realistic. Okay, yeah. Thoughts? I think it's good idea. Great, yeah. Yeah, I think it is timely. Yeah. It's very good. Okay. So I will, I will make a motion that we authorize staff to apply for the CCRPC Unified Planning Work Program Grant and approve a $10,000 cash match to come from the matching grant fund. Should this grant be received, the board will commit staff time to implementing the project. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Thank you, Darby. Thank you. Thanks, Darby. Okay, so next up we have, and I didn't know how to phrase all this since we have multiple parking complaints and problems and they come under different headings, I just sort of said parking complaints and remedies. It just seemed like over the last, it's our last meeting, we had just a blossoming of parking issues, unrelated cars getting towed, cars being towed from over by the Amtrak station, cars being towed out of village neighborhoods, complaints on Park Street about employee, limited employee parking and an ordinance that went into effect, did go into effect, but at the time, but someone thought it was in effect and so there were problems over there. And so I'm trying to find some coherence between all this and I don't know quite where to begin. I think, I probably, what I'd like to do is start with an understanding of just parking on village streets, residential streets, cars being towed from people who have guests or people who are parked out on the street in front of their house and their cars being towed. And the policy right now is that we have a winter parking van and so cars are just simply not supposed to be parked out on village streets. But the issue is why I've been on the board a number of years and I haven't had to, I don't remember having, maybe it has happened and I'm just not aware of it, but I don't remember hearing that many complaints about cars being towed, but then suddenly we hear about cars being towed and so what's happening? Did we drop the ball in terms of communication or is it something about enforcement that's different? Any thoughts about that, Pat? I don't know that, let's take this one at a time as it relates to the parking incidents over, was it the 26th of December at the Ham Track Station? I think we had either a formal and informal relationship with the Ham Track staff that they had three or four spaces that are assigned that their customers can use. And if there are any others above and beyond that, they, the staff at the Ham Track was responsible for making sure that the police department has license plates number of those cars that are there. And then the invent of a snowstorm which unfortunately it did snow of course, Ricky can verify the level of snow. The call went out to remove the cars, public works calls the PD. PD comes over, writes the tickets and Rick is here to see if I'm saying all this right and then after the tickets are written the hook is called and the cars are towed so that plowing can take place. In years past, and in your choice of words it was great, George Blossom. We really haven't had a problem for a while. The last time we had an incident with this, like this was three, four years ago and maybe even longer and the person who worked there made a mistake and had to pick up the costs out of their pocket. The people who have been contacting us one little horrified by the fact that they came back from the Christmas in New York City and had their car there and it was cold, bitterly cold and they had to find out what happened and I don't know that the staff was all that helpful at Amtrak because they for some reason, I don't know if they just didn't know what was going on. So that's how that happened in the response to the back to the citizens who have complained about not wanting to pay for the towing and not wanting to pay for the tickets. The only response I've been able to provide them at this point was the fact that in hearing what the police are considering doing, the police are going to void the tickets on December 26th for those cars but the coach was asked to pick up the cost for the towing and I said, no, we're not going to pick up the cost for the towing and that's consistent with what we have been doing. Well, since I've been here and Rick, is that pretty consistent with what we've been doing for a much longer period of time than my tenure? Yes. I have one question. The VAMS track station specifically, was it just one car that was towed or were? No, I think it was five or six. Yeah. So even the cars that were in the Amtrak spots were towed? No. Cars that were in improved spots were now towed, it was the ones beyond the spots. Beyond the spots. They didn't tell us. And Amtrak did not call for the agreement to tell us there were cars beyond those spots and so they were all technically, we do a violation and so I removed them. Okay, thank you. One thought I had, this is probably not a good thought, but I'm just curious, I'm wondering, and it might not be helpful, but throat out there is that the lot behind road rescue, which Mr. Handy is graciously allowing us to use as a public lot right now, I'm wondering if there's any thought about making that and asking Mr. Handy if it would be okay to have cars parked there for Amtrak, maybe some designated Amtrak spots that might be legislatively tricky, you know it sounds simple, might be tricky to win it all out, but I'm wondering if that might be a better, an easier solution or does that make things any easier in terms of plowing or is that, it's. Still has been paying. I think for your Amtrak folks, I think they just got to communicate to us, and especially PD, it doesn't be over full there, we've always been really good at accommodating the extra people, and just wasn't communicated to us this time around, really. No, I just, Laurie, I saw your handbook too, but my thing is I just think, how are you gonna determine Amtrak cars as opposed to not? The only thing I can think of is, when I go to the work in the Burlington, I park in this municipal lot and I'm with it. I get the little tag, it says, city of Burlington authorizes me to park there, it's got the month, whatever else, so maybe Amtrak can set up something so that people go in there, they get a tag, it goes on their vehicle, it'll display it in the windshield so that the PD, the public works, whatever. Yeah, we're not gonna go brushing cars off. Right. To go all the way on the whole bunch of cars. But it's gonna be towed though, I mean, that's the thing. Well, that's the thing, you're gonna spend that officer's time and or our time going out there, brushing off all these tires, look for little stickers or something. Amtrak would just let us know, wait, never trip in the vehicle, it's simple, just let this pass and all that. And we've been always been good with them for ever since I remember, I've been here 29 years. Why do? What about just adding additional spaces for Amtrak on Ivy Lane, that's designate them Amtrak? That's gonna take away from your people that park there. Yeah. Regular. So again, somebody hits the holidays and if we see this before, it's around the holiday, if we don't get snow on holidays, it's no problem. Can't we just designate. Once it's been snowing here? Can't we just designate some of the spots on Ivy Lane to say after 6 p.m., approve for Amtrak overnight parking or something. So it doesn't affect the daytime people. Are there signs up there now that say? Amtrak parking. Amtrak parking overnight. I mean, what? Amtrak parking only, yeah. Yeah. There's like four. Two signs that cover four spaces. Okay. Designated as Amtrak parking, marked as Amtrak signs. Okay. There's no other signage beyond those spaces. Does it say that it's overnight? It says Amtrak sign? Yeah. I'm not sure we're getting a second one. I think it's Amtrak parking only, yeah. Okay. I think that's what it is. And is Ivy Lane usually full of cars during the day? Yeah, it fills up. Does it? That's why I'm suggesting, because I go by this at night, and this is if this is, I've been given the busiest sign that's half full. Right. So that's clearly a spot where you could go and they could put them in it. It wouldn't matter. Over there, it's tight. Right. But again, it's a hike to get from that space over there. Right. But it's just a sign. Well, I mean, you hike any train station you go to. I mean, I try to drive out of Albany and it's a hike. Yes. I mean, Rick's solution is easy, except when someone forgets. Yeah. And that's when we seem like we have these problems. Someone just forgot what they had to do. And so that's the pain for the customers. Can I ask Ricky a question? Rick, is that the same gentleman who's been there for quite a long time working at Amtrak? The person who's responsible for the building, go to cars? No. So it was a new person in a new place. Yeah, I used to deal with another person. Yes. Chief. And the person that's, well, Amtrak actually does hand out, and that's where some of the discommunication is. Amtrak has actually been handing out a piece of paper that says Amtrak parking. And it's like a permit that says, if you're parking in Amtrak, if the first four spaces aren't available, you can park in the spaces after that. All of those customers then assumed they were fine because they had an Amtrak permit. We don't scrape the windshields when we go over there. So they thought they had this type of permit. Amtrak never called, so we had none on the list. So yeah, it was a major communication faux pas. Apparently the gentleman that was handing out tickets the day that they left is a different person that was there originally. And that was my question to John was, this has been historical with the Public Works Department, and I think the message didn't get passed possibly to this new employee. Again, it's human error, but it caused a huge uproar. Right, and what if we moved, so if we moved all the spots over to Handy, and then we have more spots for the business people to park on Ivy Lane. But no one's parking at Handy Space, so there's space. But every spot we designate as Amtrak is a spot that is then taken away from the purpose. Wait, but I'm saying move all of them over to Handy's Law. But it's just still then that the faucet could be used for all the purposes that aren't being used. But no one's parking at Handy's. I'm not sure Amtrak would want that though, too. You wouldn't want to check with them because they like, their people are very likely to need their baggage, you know, so close. Yeah. If that might be another question too, I don't know. And somebody can be watching the cars while the people are gone. Mm-hmm. So I just don't want that. Yeah, I don't, we maybe don't have to figure this all out tonight, but you know what? Maybe this is something that gets thrown into the parking study. Yeah. And as an opportunity, I would just say overflow parking for however many spots that designate it for Amtrak. And then if they start to get more than that, then that's what they would, then they would not have the problem of trying to figure out what we're parking in a legal spot. I need to get the sign in my window that's gonna snow. But that would have to also be okay that they were over there. Well, that area that just become overnight parking and then if public works needs to go and plow it out, just isn't then plowed because of the cars that are parked there? Well, I think you'd be, you know, we're talking probably about three or four cars. Right now. You know, and it's a lot as opposed to a street, so it could be, it might not be quite as terrible to have to, you know, go back. It's not an urgent, highly urgent thing as opposed to plowing on a street. I don't know. Maybe I'm making stuff up, I'm not sure. But I just thought that was an idea. Yeah, I just, I mean, in all honesty, it just sounds like, what I'm interpreting from is it sounds like it's an issue of communication being broken down and somebody new, not knowing different policies and not knowing different practices, which is only so much we can do with that. And I don't think in this instance, it sounds like it's falling on us to really figure out what someone else to make sure that there are newer people in training. Yeah. I would agree. The only kind of building that's not calming, but like you said, can you just give us a little bit of warning that's all we need? Yeah, that's it. Because communicate with us a little bit. Yeah, we're fine with it. You know, we've always been. So are they aware of this situation? They must be. Yeah, I think they're very much aware of it now. But I just don't know who's over there, who's, you know, someone's in charge of dealing with all of this. It's hard to know. So we'll look at it when we do a parking study. You know, we'll consider, we'll throw this in and this is probably something that has to be tried to find a solution. The other question I had though was residential parking. People, yeah. No, I'm just curious that we've addressed the in track, but going back to what you were just about to say. Yeah. That was going to ask residential parking. I mean, in Burlington, in Winooski, they have flashing lights that indicate no parking when you come into Winooski on June 15 from Essex. You'll see the sign right there by exit 15, you know, telling you exactly what it means. And, you know, people that live here generally know. We have signs, you know, there's signs around the village that say after December 1st, no overnight parking until April 1st. Front porch forum, there were multiple posts on every forum about the parking ban. I remember seeing them on multiple occasions. It's not like that we didn't communicate it. That said, Aspen Drive is a huge street. I know. And so I get what Mr. Cameron is saying. I know. Those flowers are 14 foot wide, too, just to let you know. What's that? Those public trucks are a lot of way down at 14 foot wide. Yeah. So the cars really have to get off the street. I mean, there's not much about it. It can't be a situation where someone gets warned because it doesn't really matter if they're not. Right. If the car is there, it's a problem. Actually, the police department is in the practice of issuing warnings to begin with the first part of the wet parking ban, at least for two weeks, the cars are out there. And then it's after that when we start getting requests to tell that they typically issue tickets after that. So there is a warning period that we try to remind people as we start the season, hey, don't leave your cars out here. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. I don't know about the flashing lights, I don't know. Yeah, but again, excuse me, Chief, are they getting a ticket in the tow so they're getting the double hit? I mean, is that? They get towed, they get a ticket in the tow. Yeah. And the problem where people see it as inconsistency, I think, and that's the problem is, is to be able to win a parking ban. But if it doesn't snow, and your car happens to be out there, then it's OK. And then it gets towed. It's not until all of a sudden we get snow, and then all of a sudden you get towed. And people are like, you're inconsistent. It's like, we're not taking all the time we need to clear the roads. I mean, yeah. I do like the flashing light going into a new ski. And I agree we've communicated it, but our signs are small. They're not, people don't see them. Maybe people aren't from Portugal, or they are. Are there any signs at all in the Bearview Farms neighborhood, or the countryside neighborhood that's shown in any neighborhood? I think it's just coming into the village. Yeah. The primary route is coming into the village, show it. And, yeah. And maybe it's where you're getting to come into the village. Two more signs at entrances into major neighborhoods. Yeah. That's a good idea. The problem is, is that there was a lot of signs out there. They're on the right. You know, just another sign that says something. I mean, that's why they have the flashing lights. I think the question might be, then it's indicative that this night you need to, if you vehicles, then it's not such a, obviously, they're bigger as far as municipalities, as far as the vehicles, and such. Burlington, Fort Chester, Monoski. But we could have a flashing light. I agree with Laura. I think a flashing light would help. And I think people aren't just going to read the signs and look at the fine print. It's not a real big sign. But when you see something flashing in front of you, you know, well, if I dare not park there. Having, I mean, having worked in Monoski, it was quite evident when all of a sudden you knew that, you know, you can't park on the tree. I think one of the other things is those signs that do say that there's no parking during that time of year. They are relatively small, and they're generally with the exception of Old Colchester Road on roads that you're traveling 40, 45 miles a minute when you're riding by this B.M.C. So I mean, it's not that easy to see that a big yellow flashing sign is pretty difficult. Well, that's a capital project, putting yellow signs around the village. So it's something to think about. I don't know. How much do they cost? I mean, maybe a lantern, maybe some guy You don't have that many of them. It's just one of the locations. All the main, what did you just say? The entryways. The entryways, the main routes coming in, maybe once in the five corners. People are going to see it, so they're going through all the, you know, you see it, you know. You know, maybe we just need to do, you know, more once a week or once every two weeks, or if we know there's a storm coming, put it on the porch form, put it on the... Yeah, I know, but more warnings on what we do, and maybe another, how about, you know, we put out a newsletter every year. Maybe we push the timing of the newsletter back. It says that the beginning of the winter comes out, and we put it right in the headline, winter parking ban, in effect, and we explain it every year. Yeah. And we say to people, make sure you tell your company. Yeah. Because that's the problem in this particular situation, is they're out of town guests who would have no way of knowing that there's a parking ban partying from the house. Yeah. And it just happened to snow throughout that holiday. Okay, so what do you think about the flashing lights? Can we at least get a price on them? Yeah. Let's talk about getting a price on the flashing lights with the signs. You're wrong for flashing pedestrian crossing lights. Flashing lights here. One of those dome things. I think another community was looking at those. I'm sorry. Do you want to put a dome over this? Yeah, let me take it. No. Let me have no problem. No problem. No problem. Let's go, no problem. I don't want to say I don't want to. Allowing costs, right? We're down with whether we're happy to dome. I don't know how to do that, but we'll learn. I'd be like, the whole village is like one of those snow domes. They turn it on and off. The snow's on the other side. That's a good idea. You can turn it on and off. That's a great idea. Okay. Okay, I think have we settled this? All right, so we've got some ideas. And all right, let's see what the parking study takes us to. I was going to say, maybe even they can suggest some ideas for this as well. Right, I hope that the parking, if we get that grant, includes not just looking at the village center, but the village, the signage and everything. And in the immediate term, I don't know if you remember who said it, but putting out a weekly notice about the snow with the front porch door, I'm saying that it's going to snow. Here's the ordinance. If your car's out, you may be able to make it up. You guys watch the forecast? I'm trying to watch the forecast to see when it's going to snow and not to snow. Just put it in the week. Put it in the week. You're going to have no time plowing this thing, man. Imagine putting out a notice out beforehand and saying, eh, 40% chance, maybe. And then people will move their cars and they'll be mad. Right. They're going to make it snow. They're going to make it mad. No. And you're saying that. But yes, I think weekly, we should put something in front porch door. OK. Talk to her. All right. We'll put out a bunch of that. Darby, go ahead. One thing about front porch door is I do have a post limit for every month. I'm allowed 16 postings, which it does sound like a lot, but there are some months that I'm probably about half the time I'm taking my limit. So one of us can take it. We have posts. Yeah, I hope that's right. We can do it. Let's take turns. I'll do it next week. You do it the following week. You have to send it to us to remind us. Sounds good. Darby can coordinate whose turn it is. Yeah. I can coordinate something. OK. Do it alphabetically by last hand. The good thing is you folks can't be inspired. Exactly. OK. So good. Let's move on to the management report and the trustee meeting schedule. Thank you, folks, for helping with that. It's budget, budget, budget. And just a reminder that we do have scheduled a joint meeting on February 13th with the select board. That's also important for, you know, budgets and applet programs for the village to adopt for the FYE-19 here. So we will have that opportunity to talk budgets and where we are vis-à-vis new things in the budgets. February 27th, we will adopt a warning for the annual meeting that's locked in. I didn't go beyond March 13th. OK. Excuse me. I'm not going to be able to be at the next meeting. At the 23rd, January 23rd. I have just a question, again, just to throw it out there to get some discussion going. For our anticipated governance discussion in March and it says location to be decided, Patty had looked at the cost of getting Essex High School cafeteria and a meeting room at the Essex. And the meeting room at the Essex is obviously significantly more expensive. Not thousands, but hundreds of dollars more expensive. But the EHS cafeteria needs to know fairly soon because it gets rented out and used a lot. So we're going to have to make a decision. I'm just thinking right off the top of my head, whenever I've gone up to the Essex parking, it's going to be a premium. I think people over at the high school parking is no issue. I just think that added factor to the cost on top of it. I think I might agree on top of it for here. Me too. The high school? You're OK. OK. So let me just contact Max. And maybe he can get a sense of the select board just to make sure we have consensus. Where in the high school? The cafeteria. My only thought was I don't think this is going to be, although we would like to have a gigantic collection of people there, I think the fact of the matter is the history of our joint meetings, we have not had overflow crowds. And so I'm not sure we needed the entire high school cafeteria for what's going to be a relatively small meeting. And so that's why I suggested looking at a couple of other places. But I think for the point you raised, it's fine. Let me just contact, I just found this out today. So I'll let Max know and he can run it by the select board and make sure they're OK with it too. OK. All right. Good. Anything else with that? Good. Trustee comments? Anyone have anything we haven't brought up yet? I have a question regarding in the reading file. Oh wait, is it the reading file or is it? Hold on. Never mind. I'm waiting for the consent agenda. OK. I wanted to go over one thing in the reading file. And that has to do, as I said, with the ADA improvements over at the station. I think I said last time it was a little concerning. Amtrak came to us and said, can you please approve the plans right now? And thank you. And we want you to do it right now. And, you know, I'm sorry, I stayed there the wrong way. You OK? All right. It's the other one. So I tried to get, I tried to talk to Rick Hamlin. I sent letters to Amtrak and to Rick, and Rick Jones and Jim saying, why don't I act as the coordinating person, the nucleus to communicate and the communication doesn't get lost. And Jim, if you read his letter, he has a couple of things that he believes he can add on and he can get a grant for stormwater improvements for the Brown L block over on Railroad Street, Railward Ave. That he can get, won't slow them down at all. But he wants to make sure that he's communicating with them. And so he's going to be communicating with, Jim and I are going to be working with Rick Hamlin and then we'll try to be working with Amtrak to try to get this on track. But I just wanted to let everybody know that that's what's going on with this. And this isn't something that Robin can coordinate? Well, the problem is that it's engineering. And so there, so Rick Hamlin, yes, Robin would be involved in it, but Rick Hamlin and Jim have their own, they want to be talking with the Amtrak engineers as well. So it kind of involves Robin, but it also involves strict engineering issues too. Oh, I'm not saying that. What I mean is the whole coordinating, the whole process. I'm just wondering why Robin's not doing that, or that's all. I don't know. We could have him do it. So anyway, that's where we are. I thought that one of the issues might be, Elaine, that there might be something that comes up that I could answer on behalf of the Board of Trustees or something like that. So it would streamline the thing instead of having just staff do it. If I stepped in and said, it'll go through me. And I think that's all I had for the reading plan. Anyone else? And I just wanted to draw your attention. We announced the hiring of Evan last week. Okay, so we are now on to the consent agenda. So yeah, I just want to make a comment. It's not really anything we can do anything about, but the page regarding the designation of newspaper for legal ads, the reporters changed in delivery system where it's sending the paper out via the post office now. Really? Yeah, they fired all their carriers and now they're using the post office. Right. I'm hearing from all sorts of people that they're not getting it. I live in the apartments across the street and nobody gets it there. I'm not finding it in any of the little bins when I get to them. So I know it's the only game in town in terms of legal notices, but the free press is a little more reliable than that at the moment. I'm a little concerned that even though this is the designated newspaper, our legal responsibility is not being met because half the village apparently is not getting the paper. I went through this a number of years ago and I don't know that it's absolutely necessary that it even be in a printed newspaper anymore. Legal notices, I'm not sure in terms of, and you can check, we have Pat check on this, but I'm not sure that legal notices have to be in a printed newspaper anymore. They do? Yeah. I'd like to check on that still. They're trying to, but trust me, I'll start at places. I mean, I will say that in the village, so we did change our delivery to the town, in the village, there's spots taken up everywhere and as far as the free press goes, I mean just everyone in the village the point being that this change, you do, but the point being that the change that you guys have made that it's not coming to anybody or that's exaggeration, it's difficult to obtain. If you can't get to the places and you've been relying on delivery all this time, it's not being delivered. Well, I don't know if that changes if you go to the free press. Understood. That's all. I'm telling you the same. I would love everybody to do it. We went to an hearing and we're not trying to take it this way, but I would just point out that there are many, many, many communities in Vermont that have to publish legal notices and there's no local newspaper. So they can't have a, I don't believe that there is, I could be wrong, but I don't think that they exist there. I don't know. I'm thinking that it doesn't need to municipality and it's charter, if it has a charter, say or define what legal notice is defined as. Well, it says what legal notice is. Is that in 17 VSA 2641? What does it say? I don't know. I'm not there yet. I'm just saying that according to the, it says in accordance with 17 VSA 2641. So I'm assuming that that probably outlines and if you want to give me a couple of minutes, I can do a Google search. Sure. Or Lori Danson, she's already there. VSA what? 2641. I mean, I'm not for, I don't think that a sudden drastic change, but I think it's something that you have to be thinking of. Yes. So morning meeting by posting a warning, and you notice in at least two public places in the municipality and in, sorry, I changed my, and in or near the town clerk's office, not less than 30 feet. In addition, the warning shall be published in a newspaper of general circulation in the municipality at least five days before the meeting. Unless the warning is published in the town report and distributed as provided in 24 VSA 1682. So if we were to do in the annual notice, if we were to publish when all of our reoccurring meetings are, then the only thing we'd have to publish are any kind of special meetings. We spend a lot on ads. We can't make a decision in, in something that's in the consent agenda. But the sense of the board is to do a little more digging and find out how to comply with this. I didn't hear the front part of the discussion. There must have been a question. Blame raise the issue that the reporter, and I, you know, we, I'm very sympathetic to their situation. That not everybody is getting it. And because they've gone from having carriers to sending it out through the mail, if we publish, if we are publishing our legal notices in the reporter, are we living up to our requirement to brought, you know, appropriately broadcast legal notice. And so that led to the discussion of what are we, what are we required to do? I don't see anything in the charter indicating a particular newspaper or any newspaper. I'd be curious about the people not receiving it. I'm just curious about the amount of distribution of the paper. Because I get it in the mail, and I receive the mail, and I've been receiving it, you know, weekly or whatever in the mail, without a problem. I don't know if you're speaking to, like, I'm not getting it. Laura just said she doesn't get it. None of us on Brickyard Road in the Commons. I get it. I have it delivered to me. Let me ask the question though. What is our, what is our goal? I mean, if we're, if our goal is to communicate with the public and, you know, then, and the reporter has, even if it's not, even if it's imperfect, if it's getting a lot of papers out there, isn't that, don't we want to stay with that? I still think we need to. I don't, I just don't think we're required to. I think it's just something we do, because we want to. And there is a segment of the population that doesn't use the internet, so I don't. Right, that's what my concern is, that there's a decent amount of people who rely on the reporter for this kind of thing. Yeah. And I'm bombed, I don't get the paper, and I have to go find it out. Can I ask Colin a question? Yes. Is it, is it being delivered through the mail just to the town? Well, I think they're going to sound like there are some routes in the village, but obviously not for a rush. I mean, it's expensive. Yeah, oh yeah, no, I understand. I just wanted to make sure I knew. But, but I was, I know for a fact that you can't just put them online. This has been something that's been going on with the house, or a bit the legislature for a while. Yeah. It's back and forth, but right now you need it. Oh, thank you. Okay. So, anything else on the consent agenda? Oh, will we approve the consent agenda? Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Okay. So, we are not going to do our, are we not going to do an executive session? Well, we don't think we need to. I just offered it up. So, do I have a motion to adjourn? I'll second. All in favor? Aye. We are adjourned. Thank you. Thank you.