 Hello, Psych2Go viewers. Today we have a very special guest, the amazing Katie Morton. As you guys probably already know, Katie is a licensed therapist, author and public speaker who is well-known for her YouTube channel. Katie is a passionate advocate for mental health and our channel is dedicated to discussing a wide range of topics including anxiety, depression, stress, eating disorders, psychological disorders and trauma. Katie is the author of two best-selling books. Are you okay? A guide to caring for your mental health. Can you see it? And traumatized, identify, understand and cope with PTSD and emotional stress. Katie has become a leading voice in the mental health community and has inspired and uplifted so many viewers with their content which is why we're so honored to have her as a guest today. Thank you for joining me, Katie. Of course, thanks for having me. Of course, I'm so excited to discuss these topics, especially since May is Mental Health Awareness Month. It's important to spread the message that mental health matters to eliminate the stigma around it. So the topic for today is self-care and mental health. The definition of self-care varies depending on who you ask, but the official definition from the World Health Organization defines it as the ability of individuals, families and communities to promote health, prevent disease, maintain health, cope with illness, disability with or without the support of a health worker. So I wanted to start out with this question for you. What is the importance of self-care and how does it positively impact our mental health? Yeah, self-care, I kind of hate that it's become such a buzzword because I think it's kind of got this bad rep that it has to be expensive or you have to spend a lot of time, but self-care overall, I like to think of it as like basic things. I always talk about the halt acronym, hungry, angry, lonely, tired. Those are things to check in on. And the reason that this is so important is, I mean, just imagine like the word hangry exists for a reason. If I haven't eaten in like four hours, you're not gonna get the best Katie. I'm gonna be more irritable and be more short tempered. I'm gonna be impatient, right? There's a lot of ways that just our basic self-care can affect how we interact with the world, therefore our mental health overall. If I'm not eating well day after day or I'm not getting enough sleep day after day, any new parent, anybody in school will tell you that that lack of sleep can really affect how you feel and how you're able to engage with other people. And so overall, think of instead of self-care being like I have to go on vacation, I have to get a massage, wear face mask, things like that. You can do that stuff, that's great. But on the daily more like, did I drink enough water? Did I get enough sleep? Am I eating regularly? All of that is gonna be key. And that can, what we call therapy, the window of tolerance or it's your resilience, your ability to weather life storms. If we're doing that self-care, then that level of resilience is gonna get higher and we'll be able to manage the things that we can't control, like life. Exactly, and a lot of people, they feel like self-care is synonymous with luxury when in reality, self-care should be and is accessible. It's just relaxing. It's just taking care of yourself, your mental health. It's not a luxury vacation to the Bahamas, right? I mean, it can be. That's not very sustainable, right? I can only take application every, I don't know, 10 years or something, but every day I make sure that I drink water, go for a 15 minute walk, something like that. Yeah, and self-care isn't twice a year, right? It should be like, at least, you know, guess it depends on maybe once a month, something like that. Yeah, or I mean, that's why I like the small things because it should be every day. You know, there should be small things we do for ourselves. Like, are you taking your medication as prescribed? That's self-care. Yes. It gives yourself a nice meal. That's self-care. Looking at it from that standpoint can be kind of eye-opening and allow you to feel, at least for me, instead of judging yourself, I mean, like, oh, I never put my, I don't do this, whoa, whoa, whoa, instead seeing like, no, I do do a lot of things to take care of myself and I am, you know, offering myself some self-care. Exactly. And so you kind of just mentioned this, but what are helpful forms of self-care and how do they manage stress effectively? Yeah, I think helpful forms can be anything like I just mentioned, but also it could be venting to a friend. I think that's effective too, right? I talk about body shakes a lot, but when we feel kind of queued up energy, it could be anxiety, stress, just feeling dysregulated. We can shake it out, stomp your feet, move around. That can help you feel better. There's a lot of like small, easy ways that we can improve our overall mental health by acknowledging things aren't quite right or maybe I need to step away from my desk for a little bit, get outside. You know, if we can do those small things for ourselves overall, it's almost like we're building a savings account, right? And so every time you do something kind for yourself, you're like, you know what, I'm really stressed. I'm gonna step away from my desk. I'm gonna go make myself a new coffee or a new tea or whatever, take a breath. All of that is just again, building up that resilience. I think of it like throwing coins in a savings account so that when we have those days where we maybe can't step away or things are extra stressful, we can pull from that savings account and we can weather that storm. We can be okay. And so think of it in small ways that make you feel good. Maybe it's taking in a little extra long shower. Maybe it's petting your dog. Maybe it's going for a walk. Maybe it's, I call it doing things for future Katie. Like future Katie might not have time to fold those towels. I'm just gonna do it now because I do have the time now. And then future Katie is like, yeah, cause I don't have to do it. So thank you in those ways. Yeah. And you know, a severe lack of self-care causes burnout and so WebMD defines burnout as a form of exhaustion caused by constantly feeling swamped. It's a result of excessive and prolonged emotional, physical and mental stress. And it's usually related to different stressors such as work, school or personal issues. So how does one identify burnout after not really taking care of themselves for a while? Yeah, burnout, it can appear a lot like depression or anxiety. When it goes untreated, it shows up like that. And really the reason burnout happens just so people kind of understand is when the reward that we get for something isn't at least commensurate, meaning equal with the effort we put in. So that can shift over time, right? Maybe the money we were being compensated used to feel like a lot and now because inflation things are expensive, it's harder. Or maybe we used to feel more fulfilled cause we connected with people and now we're not seeing as many people. And so that reward goes down and while we still sustain that effort. And that's why burnout looks like irritability, resentment. A lot of people feel like they resent their job or their place in school or whatever volunteer work, anything you're doing. Being a stay at home parent, that's a full-time job. And we can start to be agitated and irritated that we have that job. And so just notice if you are extra agitated, extra irritable, find yourself just like you get an email and you go, ugh, like it's just too much. Those, I call them overreactions, not to judge them. Overreactions are helpful cause it tells us something's wrong. So if you find yourself putting things off not wanting to get out of bed, struggling to stay focused, getting agitated, irritated, resentful, those are some things to look out for. And if they happen more days than not, I would call it burnout because we can all have a bad day or maybe a couple of days cause it's leading up to this big project or this big presentation. But if you find it happening with more regularity, it's something to look into. Yeah, exactly. And sometimes it's common for people to push themselves despite feeling burned out. What are the consequences of ignoring the clear signs that you're feeling burnt out and why is it so detrimental to someone's mental health? Yeah, we've all done it. I'm just as guilty. Even though I know I'm burnt out, right? You can feel like deadlines don't go away. And that's why self-care is important. Finding small ways that you can fit it into your schedule. But when we continue to ignore it, it does turn into depression or anxiety. It can turn into a mental illness and meaning that it's gone from like what I'd call a situational issue, meaning things are happening. I'm not taking care of myself. I'm working harder. The reward is less. And now it's become an actual diagnosable and treatable mental illness. And now that's not to say that burnout doesn't feel terrible and depressions way worse. There's no way in measuring here. It's all not comfortable. But what's happening is then it's gonna take us longer to essentially dig ourselves out of that hole. We're gonna most likely need professional help at that point versus, oh, I need to take a break and recharge. Exactly. And I just wanted you to maybe emphasize this or explain it a little bit further. How does burnout exacerbate or even cause depression and anxiety? Yeah, so not to get too nerdy, but what happens in our brain when we're burnt out is that our body can start to go into fight, flight freeze, which is otherwise known as our stress response and aptly named, right? Stress response for stress, we're maxed out. What happens when that stress response is triggered is that our amygdala and part of our limbic system is ignited, okay? So it's active. Now that pulls our prefrontal cortex, which I would call kind of like the organized part of our brain or adult in our brain. It pulls it offline. And when this happens for really prolonged period of time, it makes it even more difficult for us to concentrate on things or to plan out things in the future, have organized thought. And it makes us extremely reactive because they find the amygdala gets enlarged, okay? Cause it's essentially overactive. Again, not to get too nerdy, but it's important to know because then if we aren't treating our burnout and it's just happening and happening and now we find ourselves falling into depression, anxiety, I actually find my burnout patients usually fall more anxious than depressed at first. I think it's part of that fight, flight response. But again, it's gonna take us longer for that amygdala, cause it can shrink back down, but it's gonna take longer essentially to undo that damage or that hyperactivity of that region in our brain and it will take us a little bit longer to come back online. And so overall, I'll just know that though in general when it comes to our mental health, the longer we allow ourselves to feel bad, the longer it's gonna take to dig ourselves out, just like a cold, like your mental health is no different than your physical health. And if I have strep throat, which I used to get a ton as a kid, terrible, and I don't go to the doctor for longer, I'll feel worse longer, right? Every day that I don't see the doctor and get an antibiotic or whatever, the longer I'm gonna be sick and your mental health is just the same. The longer I don't talk about it, get treated for it, get some coping skills, the longer I'm gonna feel bad. Exactly. And I mean, so I think preventing it as much as possible helps because treat, I mean, obviously you should try to take care of yourself if you experience burnout, but if you can prevent it, it's better. So what strategies can help prevent burnout and how does burnout deteriorate a person's physical health? Yeah, so the ways to prevent burnout are to, like we talked about, engage in self-care regularly, make time, I mean, every day to do those basic things I was talking about, making sure you're eating regularly or drinking enough water, you're giving yourself an opportunity to get enough sleep. I know sleep can be difficult. That's a whole other conversation, but make sure you're in bed for at least seven and a half hours, okay? So those are some of the basic things we can do to prepare. Also another thing that I would encourage everybody to do is when you notice yourself, because this happens to me, like I'll be like at my computer and I'm focused and I'm trying to put together this video and it's just not coming to me. And I feel like I'm like pushing myself and forcing myself to work through it. What if instead I took a step away and I did something I love? Like I played with my dog, I went for a quick walk, I listened to some funny music and danced around the house or I called a friend. Those are all things that we can do instead of pushing through kind of that feeling that we're already having, of feeling stuck, feeling agitated, taking some action then is going to prevent it from prolonging. It'd be like when my throat first starts to hurt, I call the doctor and I get in more quickly, right? We just start enacting some of these tools and these techniques that can help us feel better more quickly. Now, when it comes to physical health, the way that burnout can affect that is essentially what we would call symptoms of depression or anxiety, right? It can affect my appetite. So I can feel extra hungry, I can find myself binge eating at night. I can also find myself not hungry, like I have no appetite. It's just, we call it changes in appetite because everybody's different. We can also find ourselves to be, and this is not physical, but it's important to mention is really impulsive. So when we're feeling burnt out, we can find ourselves wanting to like spend, like shop, like Amazon orders coming in hot for no reason, things we don't even need, spending more money than we probably should. And we can also make impulsive decisions in other parts of our life. Maybe, I don't know, deciding to go out with that person again when we really don't like them or, yeah, I'll take that trip, I'll buy that thing or whatever. We can just be more quick and not put, again, prefrontal cortex is offline. We're not very organized. But then physical health stuff, sleep can become more difficult. So it's essentially like, if we aren't taking care of it upfront, it gets harder and harder to take care of it, right? Aptite changes, sleep disturbances, body aches. We can actually be more predisposed to catch a cold and get sick because our immune system gets depleted when we're not taking care of ourselves. Essentially our mental health and our physical health are like inextricably linked. And if we're not paying attention to how we feel, we're gonna feel it in our bodies. And that's honestly why a lot of my depressed patients will show up at their doctor's office first thinking they've caught the flu or something because they're like, I just can't concentrate. I feel super tired, I ache, it's hard to get out of bed. I don't have an appetite. All those things we might think could be a cold but it could also be a sign of depression or anxiety. Exactly, so do you feel like in a lot of ways, severe burnout could lead to like a mental breakdown? Yes, I've seen it happen in a couple of instances. Luckily, it's not as incredibly common as I think it could be. But if we don't take care of ourselves slowly, like for instance, a good example would be, I forget the exact amount of days, I think it's three or four, but the Navy SEALs, they put the people trying to become a Navy SEAL through these rigorous studies and challenges. And one of them is like to not sleep, sleep deprivation. And they actually start to show signs of psychosis. So that means is after like three or four days, I'd have to look up the exact, they haven't an hours, but it's like seven, let's say 78 hours or something. And that just goes to show you how important those, like, you know, what we call like basic self-care is if we're not eating regular, if we're not getting enough sleep, we can start to get derailed and think of that resilience I was talking about or that window of tolerance, that ability to weather life storms, if it's getting thinner and thinner, then we can be on our way to work and someone cuts us off in traffic and we cannot manage that upset. We could start screaming, we could start crying, we'd have to pull the car over, we could get into an accident, you know, things, I know that sounds really extreme, but it's not that far off. If we're not taking care of ourselves, we can't weather that. We think of all the things that can happen in our life, they get our order wrong at the coffee shop or we wake up and we're late already, we didn't realize our alarm has been going off. There's a million, the hot water is out. You know, there's a million things that can happen between getting up and getting to work or school. And in that time, if we don't have any ability to weather that, we can, what I would just say is like become completely dysregulated, meaning tearful, angry, essentially being like run by these wild ups and downs of our emotions because we don't have that bank account to pull from to be like, it's going to be okay, we got this. Yeah, exactly. It's like that person in like what you mentioned in the coffee shop was going crazy about their wrong order. And it's usually never about the coffee. It's like- No, it has nothing to do- It's just so much deeper. That's like the straw that broke the camel's back, you know, there's like 55 other things that happened and they just can't handle it. Exactly. And so I wanted to jump to this, what are some misconceptions about mental health and self-care that perpetuate stigmas around mental health treatment? I think anything that, first of all for self-care, anything that tells you it has to cost, it's a great marketing ploy, but anything tells you it has to cost a lot of money, I think just perpetuates the like lack of accessibility to proper self-care. And I'm here to tell you that it doesn't have to cost you a dime. It should be easy. It should be something that you can do. Like I said, just fill up your water glass and think this is part of my self-care. I'm going to take a minute. I'm going to breathe and drink this. That's all. It doesn't have to cost a lot. And when it comes to mental health in general, I think talking about mental health issues as if they mean that something's wrong with you that you're like broken and unfixable, I think that perpetuates stigma. I think false information. I know there's gaslighting is like this new term that everybody's using and it's been around for ages, but it's very popular right now. And narcissism, everybody's a narcissist. Everybody's loved one. And I think sometimes it's good because then we're talking about it and acknowledging that these things will be painful and abusive. And I'm not saying that people aren't harmed by narcissists. I'm just saying that when we disagree with someone about the way something took place, that isn't necessarily gaslighting and that doesn't mean they're a narcissist. Usually this is done with malicious intent. And so I bring up that example to say that if we're not sharing correct information, then we are perpetuating misinformation and potentially stigmas, assuming that depression always looks like a person that can't get out of bed. When I'm here to tell you that the person next to you at work could be depressed, but they get up and they're able to get to work, but they're just barely hanging on. We just don't know. They're really good at masking. And to make these assumptions and to perpetuate that, I think does a disservice and is stigmatizing to mental health overall. Exactly like that notion that you have to pretend that everything's okay when you're not. Exactly. And in your book, Are You Okay? You mentioned that one in six adults is affected by a mental illness and yet only 50% seek mental health treatment. As a mental health professional, what do you feel like people struggle with the most when they're first seeking treatment for their mental health and what can be done to change it so others feel more comfortable seeking help? Yeah, I think there's like two parts. First is the cost. The fact that not a lot of, even personally my mental health care ICU therapist, she's not covered by my insurance. They don't cover my, I have a copay like $7,000. It's like, when am I gonna meet that? So I think coverage needs to improve as well in that it's like goes with this accessibility, right? One of the silver linings of COVID is that online therapy is available and it's usually a little bit cheaper. And there are tiers or levels depending on what you can pay. So I think that's kind of its own piece to it. And I think we need to improve the way that we can afford it and make it more accessible to people. But then on the flip side, if you find yourself like in, you have the ability to see somebody, you have the ability to afford it, whether it's through insurance or on your own, people don't really know what to look for, right? I think sometimes we assume, unfortunately, that when we see a professional of any kind, a dentist, a doctor, a therapist, we automatically assume that because they have the degree that they're always right. And I'm here to tell you, yes, I have an education, but you're the expert on you. And so make sure that your reaction, your gut response to this person is a good one. You know how we meet people and the first time you're like, I don't know why, but I like them, right? We can just get that vibe. You know, I just like that person. You know, later we'll be like, that new friend, I really liked him or her. You know, we can have that kind of feeling. You should have that with your therapist. It's not a comfortable situation. So to say you should feel comfortable is not true. It's weird to talk and cry to a stranger. I'll admit it. I do it too. But I know it's like such a bizarre thing. But if you find someone you connect with, we find that that is actually the key ingredient to therapy working. It's not about, I mean, part of it could be like my specialty, but that's actually not as important as the fact that you feel seen and heard and connected with your therapist. So make sure you trust that gut reaction. Do a phone consultation. If they do in-person consultations, do that first too. I went through I think 10 before I picked the therapist I'm with now. So don't feel like you have to settle. This is your treatment. You should feel comfortable. And in my book, are you okay? And even on my channel, I have videos with more details about how to know if you're seeing a good therapist or a bad therapist. There are things we should be aware of. But in short, just make sure you feel comfortable and you feel like they hear you. They see you. Thank you so much for that. And now we're gonna move to audience questions. There's a lot in here. We have almost 300 people in here. So someone asked, how should, what signs indicate that I should receive therapy? If honestly, the number one and the one that I've always all say over and over again is difficulty and functionality. And what I mean by that is, are you struggling to do what you used to do with ease? Is it hard to show up for your friends or your family? Is it hard to concentrate at work or school? Like for me, I'll tell you how I know I need to get back in therapy because I've been in and out since I was 15 and I'll be 40 this year. So it's been a long, long haul. Is I'll be extra tearful. I can like just cry watching the commercial or something. I'm just like extra emotional. So just notice, if things in life are more difficult, it's harder to sleep. It's harder to eat regularly. If any of that is difficult for you, I think it's time to reach out for help. And I honestly believe we should all be in therapy. I think for whatever reason, we've always assumed that something must be like quote unquote wrong with us for us to seek help. And the sooner, the better. It's so much easier to dig ourselves out of that hole when it's just a tiny little hole versus if it's been like 40 years and we haven't talked to anybody. Exactly. And Drew asked, so this is another question, Drew asked, is it important for men to talk about their mental health? Yes, I'd argue, I mean, not even more than women, but yes, because I think there's an increased stigma. At least, so I was raised in a really small town, very country small town. And my papa would have said that like, men are stoic and don't show emotion. And that there's still generational, like it's like these, I don't know if it's just like a societal belief or if it's generational trauma that we're kind of sharing, but either way I feel like there's some of this pressure on men and women alike sometimes to like put up a tough front and pretend that things don't upset us. We're all human, we're all in this world and we can all struggle. Mental illnesses don't care what you look like where you're from, any of that, that affects us all at the same rate. So yes, please speak up. I think if you feel comfortable speaking publicly even, I would love to see more men talking about mental health so that other men know, it's like leading by example, so others know that it's okay too. Exactly, it's always okay doesn't matter what your pronouns are, right? Exactly. And so someone asked, and this is more of a personal question, but I think some people kind of have specific questions like this and it's helpful. So this person asked, I have been diagnosed with ADHD and ever since I started taking my ADHD medications, I've realized I've been feeling so lazy, burnt out and depressed. Do you think this is because of the medication? I would talk to your psychiatrist about that. It's interesting. Okay, so I'm not a doctor, but I'll tell you what I know. I have a lot of patients with ADHD who have been put on a stimulant. Now I don't know what type of medication you've been put on for your ADHD, but this would be something like a Ritalin. Now they've been put on a Ritalin type of medication and it's helped with their depressive symptoms. Now I know that's awful, they call it off label use, but we do find sometimes when we're treating the ADHD it also treats underlying symptoms like depression. So the fact that your symptoms are getting worse with this type of treatment, let your psychiatrist know because on the therapist side, I would always wanna say, hey, maybe we're misdiagnosed or maybe this medication just does not sit well with me. Speak up, let them know you're having this, I call it like a side effect almost. Let them know that this is making things worse so they can change your medication or shift and find something that makes you feel better because that's what medication should do. We should start to slowly but surely feel the symptoms lift. Exactly, what you just mentioned is mental health empowerment. Like if something isn't working, speak up. Like don't just sit there idly and just allow that to happen because your mental health is important and the therapist and the doctors are there to help you. So you shouldn't feel bad about it. 100% and no one will advocate for you as much as you will. I know it sucks and it's hard sometimes to speak up, but they're there to help you and that's your time and your payment also. So your next appointment or if you can call right now or email, make sure you get your questions answered and if you get nervous, because I even just like my mind goes blank, put notes in on your phone and just read through them and you can even ask if you can record their answer. Some doctors will let you do that too so that you don't have to remember it if you find yourself feeling overwhelmed. Exactly, and then Brian asked, what do you do when you have two therapists and you don't feel like you're getting better, just staying stuck in the same place and your depression just continues? A couple of thoughts. We might wanna try, so random, I learned this when I was researching for my book Traumatized, that in this is specific to trauma, but I would argue it applies to all mental illnesses that only 40% of people are helped by talk therapy alone. Now what I mean by talk therapy is that I'm listening to you, I'm offering maybe tools and techniques and we're just talking it out. Other types of therapy that are not talk based would be things like somatic based therapy, which is like movement. Remember I talked about that body shake? Well, if we are holding anxiety or trauma in our bodies to think about the instance that has brought that about and move can be really healing. We can also do EMDR, which is like without getting into it too much, stands for eye movement desensitization and reprocessing and we kind of cause what's called bilateral stimulation. It can be through tapping, it can be through following something. We're trying to stimulate the parts of our brain again to allow our brain another opportunity to process the upset. Those are just two of many examples. And so it might behoove you to look into those other options because maybe the therapies you're getting, just even if you love your therapist, it just might not be the right fit in what you need. Another thought that I had is that if you're not a medication, you might wanna look into that. I know that some people can be very adverse to even considering medication, but I'm here to tell you it's there for a reason and it's like a life raft. I like to think of it that if we're drowning in our symptoms, like you said, I'm still feeling bad and I'm going into therapy and I'm trying all this stuff. If I can't participate fully and I'm not feeling any improvement, allow medication to be that life raft, that float that pulls you up and helps you better maybe do the homework that your therapist is giving you or be able to better communicate about what's really going on so that you can feel better overall. Exactly. And then so Zanz asked, how should we treat intrusive thoughts due to burnout? Yeah, intrusive thoughts are interesting. We used to think that if you just like said, stop, stop, stop, stop or tried to fight them that they got better, that's actually research shows that doesn't make it better. So I'm sorry, I probably gave that advice like six, seven years ago before this research came out. But we find that the best way to manage intrusive thoughts is to actually acknowledge them. Okay, just hang with me. I know you're like, but they're uncomfortable and they're really mean and they're like bullies. I hear you acknowledge it, call it what it is. This is an intrusive thought. It's not helpful and then check your facts. If that's not enough, check your facts. This actually isn't how I feel or this isn't supported with the evidence I have. Because an intrusive thought can be like, this isn't, you're not even worthwhile, this is stupid. You're so lazy or why don't you go throw yourself off a bridge, right? Intrusive thoughts tend to be violent or sexual in nature. I know, that's why they're so uncomfortable. But allow yourself to just acknowledge it and it will go away, that's the magic. The more we fight it, the worse it gets. Another trick that I use if it's like, intrusive thoughts just keep coming up and it's almost like, if I don't feel like anything I'm doing is helping I'll force myself to think of a good memory. Pick a memory that's like really like palpable. Like you can still feel it. You can still smell wherever you were. And then imagine that you're telling me or someone who doesn't know anything about it all about that memory. Where were you? What were you wearing? What did you do? What do you use all your senses? Would you smell? What did you taste? Did you feel your clothing on your back was the sun on your face? Like tell me all about that memory in that practice of like pulling our brain into something that's really emotionally charged. It usually lets go of that kind of anxiety-based intrusive thought. It's a really good strategy actually like visualizing something positive and then it can help the intrusive thoughts go away. And so Will'd ask, how do you know if your burnout is caused by repressed trauma? If we find the symptoms that we're experiencing coming up, like if we can identify a pattern of triggers because when something is trauma based and I'll tell you this but then I'll tell you if you can't even get to this point what we can do too because I know I might be already ahead of some people if they're like, I don't even know where it's coming from but just hang with me. If we are able to identify the triggers and let's say we find our symptoms of burnout coming up whenever we are reprimanded by our boss. And then I want you to consider, did this happen when I was younger? Is there a way that I was like bullied or abused from someone who was in a position of power? This could be a parent, teacher, coach, like I said, bully, a kid at school, any number of things. Can we attach the triggers now to potential past upsets? Cause we might not identify them as traumas yet even though they were. So just consider and see if you can draw that correlation. Now, if you're in the camp cause a lot of my community is as well where they're like, I don't even know I just feel really overwhelmed all the time. Then the best way to actually figure this out is to see a therapist who specializes in trauma. Now, when a therapist says they specialize in trauma that doesn't mean that if you don't end up having a trauma that you wanna work on that they can't help you. This just means that if you do they understand how to get you there. So I would reach out and talk to someone because they're gonna have to work with you to help you better identify those triggers and realize where this could be connected to because they'll be able to guide you through it more slowly without overwhelming you. Cause the one thing we don't wanna do when we're thinking about trauma is feel like we have to understand it all and talk to it really quickly cause that can actually re-traumatize us. And so we might just wanna go more slowly. If that makes sense. If that makes sense. And so then Kat asked how can we deal with persistent sleeping problems due to burnout? Ooh, yeah. Create a ritual around your bed and sleep. And there's a lot of cognitive behavioral techniques or CBT techniques that can help with this. First is cleaning up your sleep hygiene. And my audience hated this but I'm just gonna tell you no pets in your bed at least for a while. I know. Controversial. And I love my dog, also I hear you. But they move around. They disrupt us whether we realize it or not, okay? So no animals in the bed, no extra stimuli, no phone in bed. I know, you hate it too, I hate it, okay? But that's part of sleep hygiene and then creating a ritual. So what do we wanna do at what time leading up to sleep? And this doesn't matter if it's weekday or weekend. We need to keep roughly the same schedule. Does that mean that at 10.30 we start this process? Okay, I fill up my water, I wash my face, I brush my teeth, I take out my contacts, whatever it is that you do, do your process. And let's say you're like, but I do like being on my phone. Okay, maybe we go back in the living room, we're on our phone for a little bit. Then we make our way to bed and we start unwinding. And we need to have this ritual or this routine every day leading up to it because, and it sounds silly but we do it with kids and then we stop as adults. Rituals prepare our brain and body for what's about to happen. And so our brain and body are like, oh, I know this, we're about to go to bed. This is time for sleep. Your brain starts to release melatonin. You start to kind of relax. You start to maybe feel cold because your body's like slowing down things. And then we're able to sleep better. And so start that ritual and start like cleaning up your sleep hygiene. And regardless of even if it's burnout, created or regular sleep issues, it will improve. And I have an old video too, if you want to look up on my channel, just look up Sleep Katie Morton, it'll come up. I think it's like four or five years old but it still rings true. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, you can also let your phone charge while you're sleeping and that helps. And I think your sleep is obviously enhanced when you have your phone away from you. Yeah, I mean, I like to watch TikTok at night just like anybody else. Yeah. But I'm just very excited for our sleep. Or psych to go. Yes, exactly. Watching the binge watching psych to go videos. Binge watch on a playlist, a very long playlist. Exactly. So I think his name is Dak. Okay, he asked, what are some non-medicinal products we can take to control anxiety symptoms due to burnout? If you had any recommendations? Yeah, I'll tell you what I use personally because I'm not a doctor. So talk to your doctor before adding any supplements. I find at night I take magnesium to help me calm down and go to sleep. Now I am more of the anxious type of person. So like at night my brain can drag me through like all the embarrassing things I've said in my life, which is just so much fun. And it makes it really hard to go to sleep. And magnesium has been really calming and helpful. We actually find, I talked to one of my friends who's a neuroscientist at Stanford, Dr. Ben Rine. Melatonin's not good for us. And it actually impairs our sleep. When we add it, it has to be naturally derived. Your brain releases what it needs naturally. Are you, wait, I was literally about to ask that. So you don't recommend melatonin? And I used to, because I've used it, but it's a hormone that our body produces. And essentially we shouldn't be forcing more into it. It's not good and it can impair the quality of our sleep. We might fall asleep really quickly, but it can cause very strange dreams and make us wake up periodically. And then we wake up groggy because our brain has way more than it needed. And so yeah, I learned that too. That was probably like last year. So it's new to me, but melatonin's not good. L-theanine is what he recommended, as well as magnesium and even apogen. Those are all, again, talk to your doctor because these are over-the-counter supplements. But I personally found magnesium. There's calm tea I get on Amazon that's been really helpful for me. For me, lemon and ginger tea helps. Yeah, like a chamomile tea, right? Like an herbal non-caffeinated. Yeah. I'm not sure if you've heard of this and I'm just like asking for myself. Have you heard of rescue remedy? It's like these little drops. I have. I have to remember what is in them. But I think as long as it's not melatonin, I would say if it works for you, give it a try. I've seen that little like tincture, like the little dropper, right? Yeah, I've seen it at homeopathic stores and stuff. So yeah, as long as there's not melatonin in it, I don't think there's any harm. Obviously, if you're on medication, check with your doctor. A good app to download is drugs.com. I know it sounds very hardcore, but essentially put in any medication that you're on even over the counter medication because then you'll find out if anything like works against or together so that we can kind of mitigate any side effects. Like I had a member of my community who didn't think about the fact that she was on an SSRI like an antidepressant and she was taking cold medicine because she was sick and she had to work and she was taking so much of it. She pushed herself into serotonin syndrome which is really scary and can actually kill you. But she didn't know and because obviously your doctor didn't know oh, you're taking this type of medicine. So just be careful and look up that stuff. That's why we always say ask a doctor. It's not just to cover our own butts. It's also because we wanna make sure you're okay. Exactly. And then this is gonna be the last question by Sora. He asks, how do you deal with procrastination that's caused by burnout? To be truthful, the more we fight it, the worse it's gonna get. So my best advice is to structure your time in a way that feels better. And what I mean by that is we need to set breaks, sizable breaks, like every 45 minutes of work you need about 20, 30 minutes of downtime. And I'd encourage you to, this is gonna sound really silly, but just hang with me. I'd encourage you to try something that feels childlike and fun, like goofy, like putting on silly music, dancing around your living room. I know you might not like that. I'm just throwing that out there. Maybe that means that we color, maybe we watch a silly cartoon we used to love as a kid. I know that this sounds kind of weird, but we find when we're super burnt out and we just almost can't anymore, the procrastination is really heavy, the motivation is low, that we need to let, it's gonna sound woo-woo, but just there is science to back it up. We need to let that inner child of us kind of play a little because we kind of like stuffed them down and forced them to do work, which is, if you think about it, it's kind of why the symptoms of burnout are almost like child tantruming, right? We're like agitated and we're irred and we're like, no, we just don't want it. It's like we're stomping our feet and we're throwing a fit. And so allow for some of that joy and that goofiness, something that feels like totally irresponsible in some ways. We're like, I'm an adult, adults don't do this. That's what we want you to do. As long as it doesn't hurt anybody, have some fun, put on something goofy, do something funny, and it's weird, but you'll see it happen. After doing this a couple of times, you'll start to feel that procrastination just wane. And you'll be able to get what you need to get done because we've let ourselves kind of be irresponsible for a little bit. Like a release kind of. Yeah, it is like a release versus like white knuckling, like forcing ourselves into a situation. They say that when you force something, it just kind of makes it worse, right? It doesn't. It is not our best work either because we're not thinking our best. So thank you for that, Katie. These are awesome questions. So thank you to the audience as well. And so I just wanted to ask a few questions that pertain to Mental Health Awareness Month. And so how can we empower others to seek help when needed? Yeah, the best thing we can do when it comes to someone else that we love is to support and check in. I know we want them to get help and we want them to get better. We can't make anybody do anything. All we can do is we could share our own story. Hey, I've been in therapy and I found that really helpful. You know, if they're coming to you again with like, oh, I feel so depressed or I'm feeling this way or that way. We can say, you know, I know you're not really keen on therapy, but it was helpful for me. And you're going to share your story. We can support positive actions. If they're like, I think I'm going to look into a therapist. Be like, if you want any help with that, I'm here. Right? We just, we just offer our support. And then just checking in. I've heard time and time again from my patients and my viewers alike that when people come and try to fix it, it feels worse. It's better when someone just says, hey, what if I picked up pizza and came over? I've been wanting to watch this movie. It's on Netflix, you know, and we just do that. We're just there. That that's actually the most helpful. And so those are really the ways you can support. I know it sucks to feel like you can't do anything, but this is the way that you can help. Yeah, exactly. And then what is your best self-care advice for someone struggling with mental health issues to top it off? Yeah, my best self-care advice, take a shower. I know that sounds crazy, but it's a life changer. Sometimes it's like, you feel dirty inside and outside. And let's just, it's like a reset. And you know, it's okay to take a little longer one to enjoy. If you can take a bath, take a bath. If you have the luxury of having a bath. Yeah, I just feel like something about it is like rebirthed anew. So take a shower and you tell me, does it help? Because I think it can change your life sometimes. So helps, a hot shower, right? Exactly, exactly. Well, thank you so much, Katie. We really appreciate you being here. So you guys want to check out, if you guys want to check out Katie Moore's YouTube channel, it's in the description, her website and her book. It's an amazing read. I really recommend it. And thank you all for joining us today. Yeah, thank you so much. Of course. Have a good day, guys.