 Welcome everyone to the licensing webinar series brought to you by the Australian National Data Service. This is our first for 2013 which we're pretty excited about. There's a whole series there. So in fact today we're starting off with a terrific guest. We've got Diane Peters from Creative Commons. Diane, you're with us. I am, thanks. Hello Diane and you're in where are you joining us from today? I'm joining you from Portland, Oregon. It's just north of San Francisco by about 500 miles and south of Seattle by about the same distance. And I assume seeing as though it's sweating hot in Canberra it must be freezing cold up there in Oregon at the moment. Well rainy and cold, yes. Anyway thanks for staying up after dinner. Is that right to talk to us today? That's right. It's not too late. I'm pleased to be here. I hope you've got an appropriate after-dinner beverage with you to cheer you up. Baden, we also have today a regular guest, Baden Applyard. How are things Baden? G'day Adrian, back again. Happy new year everybody. Yes, yes. Good to get licensing back on the agenda again into 2013 which is looking to be a really exciting year as far as open access to data and licensing and reuse. We're very excited and so we'll be hearing from Baden throughout the year on regular intervals through this series of webinars. What we've got installed today is a presentation from Diane Peters about Creative Commons and what's topical with Creative Commons, particularly some new directions that are coming out in 2013. We will also have our regular update with Baden Applyard on developments in the Osgoal, the Australian government's open access and licensing framework. We'll have time for your questions and answers and discussion. If you're on the webinar you will see a little, what do we call the control panel and if you check down towards the bottom there's a little chat window. So if you have any questions at any time during the presentation I would jot them in there and we'll either take them as they come or look at them as a whole after Diane's presentation and after Baden's. So as soon as you think of something just jot it in there and we may depending on how the gods of technology are going we may cut across to you if you've got a microphone and speakers otherwise I can just read them out and we'll take the discussion that way. So lots of interesting stuff today. I'll speak to you more again about our plans for the future webinars on licensing and other webinars a bit later. Let's start with Diane. So very excited actually. Diane is the general counsel for Creative Commons and as we said she's based in the States but has sort of oversees the whole of Creative Commons legal strategy and is really been quite instrumental in the new versions of Creative Commons that are coming out at the moment so that's what we're hoping to be able to talk to hear from Diane about and talk to her about. She's been involved previously in the open source development labs which has become the Linux foundation as well as more legal work with Mozilla and I believe she's been working at Creative Commons for quite a few years now. So Diane do you have a how we're going to do a do you have some slides that you can that you'll be sharing with us is that right? Let's see if our technology gods are going whether we can cut across to Diane's slides that looks good looking good. I can certainly see that. Excellent Adrian and so thanks so very much to Adrian and thanks so much to Alex and the support team and also to Baden. As Baden said you know happy new year to all oh my goodness I didn't realize we would still have our 4.0 licenses not published at this time but that's for good reason as Hall explained shortly. It has been a very busy year and I couldn't be more privileged and honored to be sort of at the helm of the stewardship of the 4.0 licenses. This is not an easy task for myself but also for the many affiliates around the world and others who are deeply invested and care about our licenses. So I'm honored to be here you know data is it for us in a large way for this next year. We're very excited about how the new licenses address many of the complaints that people had and and and caused disuse of our licenses in the past and so hence I'm eager to see 4.0 get out the door. So here we are. I thought I would start briefly very briefly with a bit of history about Creative Commons and the evolution of the CC license suite to start off with license version name is very important to Creative Commons. We take our stewardship responsibilities very seriously. We started we have now had licenses out and in the public for 12 years and many of those there's probably 550 plus licenses that we have published if you account for all of the ported licenses within each of the versions of the suites and here on the slide you can see the progression. Every time we version the licenses we're listening to our community. We also have our fingers on the pulse of legislative changes what we anticipate to be new problems and try to plan ahead and know more seriously than ever have we been listening to our affiliates when they came to us and said you know our 3.0 suite isn't working for a very important constituency and hence that was one of the major impetuses for starting the 4.0 process. So why are we versioning? I've just alluded to one of those but there's several others that should not be lost on the crowd. Internationalization of the license suite is extremely important to Creative Commons. We have had four versions of the suite that were all very US centric 3.0 attempted to be very generic and attempt to you know get out of this US mold and try to make an international license. We have been somewhat successful but we recognize we have more places more improvements that we could make. There are many places in the world where because there is not a you know enter you know some country here that that there's not a license there for them to adopt they feel excluded from the Creative Commons community and so we feel it's imperative to have an international suite that speaks to everyone around the globe that is as enforceable as possible works just as an intended in as many jurisdictions as possible. Interoperability is a second major reason for the versioning process and I'll talk about the details of that in just a moment. Interoperability is the is sweetly defined as being able to take content licensed in one way remix it add other content to it if you want and then still be able to license it in a way that satisfies the conditions of the original license plus all of the other licenses that are in play. So how is it that we can promote interoperability? We have four licenses in our suite that allow for derivative works to be made and I'll talk in just a minute about how we hope to improve interoperability with the revisions that we're making to the suite. This is particularly important by the way for those of you who are well aware of the increasing number of open government licenses that are springing up around the world. Creative Commons has talked often and frequent and tried to interject in in those conversations. There are very legitimate reasons for those licenses to be popping up once that Creative Commons can't address but our goal here is to allow for data database data sets content to to travel across these schisms these silos of incompatibly licensed content currently so that these things can be remixed. So speeding up just a bit we also have some important adopters that you all might be interested in hearing about. We have a lot of IGOs who are very interested and intrigued by sharing at the global level. They have a couple of unique concerns that we've been working on hard at trying to address. They have special privileges and immunities from legal processes in local countries and national laws and so trying to adjust albeit in a very nuanced way our licenses so that they can embrace and be part of the community is something that's very important to us so we're working on that. Foremost for this group is expanding the scope of the license grant and improving the license so that it meets the needs of data and public sector information providers and all of the communities that produce it whether they're governmental or not the projects that that gather and have massive collaborations around providing data that in turn gets used for map work and and and geologistics and etc it's very important to us so sui genus database rights were a major obstacle for us and we're fixing that in 4.0 so just a few of our core principles when we version we have tried very hard and in fact no harder in 4.0 than ever before to be transparent open and inclusive and we do that in a variety of ways we have open publication lists email lists we have an open wiki anyone can edit we have regional calls with our affiliates we are willing to engage bilaterally with anyone tell us what you need tell us what your issues are we're very happy to hear it so take this to heart and please at the end of the presentation feel free to contact me if you have any concerns or issues better yet you also have a cc australia affiliate that's based out of qut there are excellent people there as well there's myriad ways for you to engage with us on the on the versioning process we also have this robust international legal review we have this amazing affiliate network i was shocked when i first came to creative comments we have like 70 jurisdictions with legal experts in copyright in data in you know spanning the entire spectrum and these people do this stuff for free and they show up they put forth their ideas they review our licenses they tell us where we're wrong they help us get it right it's a very collaborative amazing community and the result of that are these extremely robust licenses and we couldn't be more thankful for them because without them we could not be doing the work we do we also in this process of being engaging with licensed stewards one of our highest goals here is interoperability compatibility we've been in close contact with the free software foundation there's a lot of code and content that is very closely being remixed and the idea that maybe gpl version three and our buy s a version four might be able to interoperate in a way that allows those the content in the code to be shared um compatibly is uh is very exciting for us we also have the free art license um folks and tommorow etc they've been great and then finally we do document like we there's probably too much information everyone's probably bored of hearing from us but my goodness on our wiki that's all we do we document document if anyone ever wants to see how a decision's been made go there you'll find it where we'll be accountable we are accountable we want to be transparent we're open on on the documentation issue so process and status and then i'll pause for any questions on on this part of it this has been a really long process um i didn't realize it would quite be so long here we are in 2013 i thought this would get done in 2012 but here we are and the the licenses will be the better for it however so we had this requirements gathering process big learning moment for creative commons people don't respond without something in front of them we thought that was a good way to proceed but maybe those months weren't as well spent as they could have been but we tried to gather what do you want what do you want to see in 4.0 we posted um our first draft you can see it here in april we worked through august on that first draft we then posted a second draft um in august this was supposed to only be a two month period it ended up taking us as many months to get us to february and there were really important reasons for that um again we think the license is better because of it but we wanted to really get down the issue of sui generous database rights that i'll talk about in a moment we wanted to really focus on some attribution requirements that were sticky and we wanted to think hard about interoperability and internationalization internationalization is particularly hard because the licenses get used in a variety of places there are a lot of rights in play permissions in play conditions in play and how is it that we can make a robust international license that doesn't have to be ported necessarily that's been our challenge so here we are you can see draft three we posted it just last friday you kind folks are the um beta audience for the presentation that i'm about to give as i dig into details but we hope to to have that done by the end of the second quarter or first quarter we're working on some implementation issues around the chooser on the deed that may take a little bit but now is the time to participate if you want to and i'll get into some more details but maybe i'll pause here adrian or betan any thoughts you might have on on what i've discovered before i speed up through the other issues you've just alerted me to a very important point that we might chat on later diane and that is about the license chooser and updates you're looking at making there the osgoal website has a license chooser tool on it that goes back to i think when i put it together in 2008 and we've got a spec out at the moment we're about to rebuild that license chooser tool to meet more modern needs and so it'd be very good to i suppose interpose the code that comes out of your license chooser in with our one as well the difference with your one is is that you kind of presuppose a situation in what license would like to be applied we've got some prerequisite questions about privacy a few other things like that to go through but it'd be very good to work with you on that or work with creative commons on that we i'm so glad you raised that this is an issue that many of our affiliates and our larger community have asked us about our our license chooser embeds in it without any visibility to the people who are using it a variety of really important choices so how we present our licenses how we present our options for example in 3.0 we have a variety of jurisdictional drop downs so you can choose to apply a license that has been ported that means adapted for local law and then also translated and those adapted licenses you can choose them there's not a whole lot of information about that in the chooser currently but it also doesn't tell you that maybe you're not getting the latest version of a license which is something that we've always promoted and supported as creative commons so there are embedded decisions in the chooser that we want to make more transparent i fear i i think that the likely outcome of 4.0 and 3.0 is that we may end up with two different choosers the the reality is that 4.0 we're going to be having official translations and not so much ports although those are welcome if there's a demonstrated need for the ports to take place but we do expect them to be more around translations as opposed to that additionally as i'll talk in just a moment there are a few dimensions to the 4.0 licenses that are different qualitatively from the 3.0 licenses in terms of scope of coverage how termination works etc such that it might be wise to separate those but i look forward to having a great conversation with the community over how we can can best facilitate easy understanding but solid understanding and education around what people licenses are choosing when they apply a license so Diane just to take a small step back could you when you just that difference between porting and translating and just using the international license what's the could you tease out the difference in those terms of the way you're using them absolutely so the licenses at least as of 3.0 the unported what we now call the international licenses were based on international verbiage definitions concepts the idea being that the license operates where copyright operates regardless of whether someone calls something an adaptation or a derivative work under their copyright law is just one clear example or what a work is quote unquote that may differ but the the international licenses as a 3.0 were intended to work internationally that said it does make some sense and it had made some sense particularly in the past because we had just come off a us based license for local teams to dig into and say well we don't call it a derivative here we call it an adaptation or our definition of work is slightly different or this is how disclaimers should be phrased in our jurisdiction and that's not quite what we say what you say in the united states for example so these are the small tweaks which are intended not to change how the license operates but to make them more readily understandable and and enforceable in local jurisdictions so that's the adaptation piece or the the tweaking for understandability and robustness under local law and then there's the translation there are many jurisdictions where you cannot go to court and enforce an english like an english language license um italy is one example we we have this amazing team in italy and their government could really use an italian translation of our cc0 tool our public domain tool and hopefully just our 4.0 international tool it's just important for them to have an italian official translation for enforcement purposes but that's that would then be a linguistic translation not an adaptation where we're changing and adapting the small things to make it more understandable and accessible to to the locality and as a trend you're saying that the you think there'll be less need uh as you move on for uh locally ported licenses and that translations of the of the main license i suppose of the international license uh would be increasingly sufficient is that is that a fair comment that that's a fair comment that's our that's our hope that's the aspiration i don't know that we'll get to it all the way in 4.0 but i think we'll go a long ways and and let me just remind everyone that's listening there there's an important underlying facility that that comes with having a single license that can work everywhere there are many countries where they feel again excluded from accessing creative comments because they don't have a localization and there may be some differences that we cannot bridge but we have engaged our international team and we will be pushing them very hard but also listening and understanding where we can't make it work but we will be pushing them hard to see if we can't do it the gpl manages to do it well the free art license has translations they managed to do it well there are other examples um although not as prominent as gpl but we think that it's something especially given the talent and expertise of our affiliates we should be able to make it work most places okay good and i'm sure we'll get some more detail as as you move forward just again just before we move on to that how many people are involved in this kind of a process of of pushing this forward and you know how many affiliates are there and just to give us an idea of the scope of this change that's a good question so we started this with about 65 to 70 affiliates and affiliates just means a country where we have someone or one or more persons who are undertaking the efforts of creative comments there and those affiliates could be two or three universities in a given location the dutch team for example has three different major institutions behind the creative comments process there but roughly 70 affiliate 70 countries with about 150 individual or or organizational persons behind the the porting i'm proud to say that we probably have about 80 participation right now we just we're trying to tally up who's participated in the regional calls who's given us comments and it's about 80 percent of those 70 countries who have given us um really pointed feedback on the licenses well i'm surprised that you've been able to bring out and you uh you got this far in the short time that it's taken and you know gen general experience of international sort of techno and legal diplomacy it's uh it's a miracle that you've been able to make the progress that you have with all those stakeholders and keeping them on board of course well short short for you long for us but but well but well worth it but well worth it i mean we have some really outstanding teams the you know australia we have the dutch we have about you know two dozen teams who really rise to the challenge and have been exceptional so um thank we're very thankful for them okay we'll tell us about you know what the what's what's new in these licenses great so i've directed the comments here for um features and improvements that are really you know what might interest the audience here so data projects and providers maybe some librarians um now sui generous database rights don't exist in australia and in many most i could i just ask you i did that i did that in at school and i'm fairly proud of it um however just remembering exactly sui generous that means like it's a special right is that right that's right it's without reference to any particular underlying right that's it's it's a created right it's a manufactured right in a way so this is when they're saying we need a special thing for databases that's what the sui generous right that's right and so happy to happy to share that while i'm not an expert on these things although i feel like i'm getting there um sui generous database rights were established in the european union and the purpose was to reward um investment in the aggregation the the um cultivation the curation of data the organization of the data in a way that copyright doesn't protect um you have a couple of great ands um uh summaries that describe the you know the what how copyright applies to databases and how sui generous database rights apply it's really a very localized right um the european union established it all of those countries that are subject to um the legislation that have implemented it there are also a few countries who through free trade agreements have implemented something that is like a sui generous database right so that would be countries like korea mexico russia these are giving rights that are like copyright but based on investment in the curation of the works um and and so there are a lot of different rules and regulations around it but think of it as a complement to copyright for those jurisdictions they don't apply everywhere so that's the idea of the sui generous meaning this is not something that's you know uh perhaps covered in the copyright in the rights of a copyright but it's its own special right that applies to databases that's right it's it's certainly not among the original authors you know dr of you know the author's rights this is something that applies to non-creative databases in which a substantial investment has been made by the maker so the european union have said well you know perhaps the um databases uh would not be caught up in the protections allocated under copyright so we're making a special database right well so the the the persons in the european union thought that this was a wise choice um we could debate policy i'm very happy to do that um i don't know that that's necessarily the right conversation to have here maybe for another of the copyright seminars but um but it is it is supposed to be different right so copyright is creativity and the selection and arrangement of facts and you have a right in the in the in that element of it because there's creativity being applied to um the creation of a database so to the extent it's just for example a phone book that's you know just an aggregation of facts that doesn't attract copyright at least in the united states under feist and in many other jurisdictions but to the extent someone's expense a lot of money to create and curate and organize and make it searchable and those kinds of elements then yes that attracts this different right which is similar to and sort of a buts copyright good good so we don't need to understand any more about about that distinction but as far as your work is concerned uh the creative commons licenses map back uh all ready to sort of copyright uh rights and in if i understand it in this version four you're trying to map them as well to this special right that exists in some jurisdictions that's right so so 4.0 we've made the decision back last september that it's really important for us to acknowledge these rights what we've learned even since then is that the existence of these rights that a lot of governments and important makers of databases have that can't be licensed under creative commons 3.0 licenses or if they are licensed they're neutralized and there are no conditions that attach that we need to affirmatively license these have them be subject to the license conditions but only in so far as they exist um by the by the licensor and only in so far as those rights um the they apply to the use of the license so the first slide i have up right now is to emphasize this even though australia and the united states and many other countries most other countries do not have sui generous database rights it is important to understand how this now works um only makers have these rights and may license them using the licenses so if i'm in the united states and i make a database i don't get sui generous database rights or better said if i create a database that has no copyright protection and i apply a cc license it's not as if i can start to run around the world and enforce quote unquote sui generous database rights against you in australia or anyplace else so it's a limit it's limited in terms of whose um can license these rights under the licenses additionally licensees need not comply with the license terms where those rights don't apply to them so to the extent i'm sitting in the united states and i download sui generous database from the european union i in the united states in subject to united states copyright law for the most part and i will caveat that those rights will not apply to me so i am not restricted as a matter of copyright or sui generous database rights from extracting and reusing the content so just to be to sum it up and i'm happy to provide more information the rights are contained to those who have them and to um and they only apply and their license conditions only apply come into play where the licensee is subject to those rights because of their use so if you don't have them and you're sitting in australia you're not a maker from australia there's rules inside of the the database um directive about who gets these rights there are also some treaties that can be made or free trade agreements that can be made that establish them but for the most part the general rule would be if you're a maker of a database and you're sitting in the country like the united states and the database doesn't attract copyright because of the selection and arrangement we don't have an independent right another right like the sui generous database right that would allow me to apply a cc license and therefore go out and say everyone you have to apply and abide by the license rules because i have these rights so they're confined um so a second thing i'm happy to come back to that if people have questions um a big thing in 4.0 we have added flexibility for attribution requirements and we know and we've heard loud and clear from the data community in particular the scholarly community the scientific community that it's really important to have this flexibility built into the attribution requirements so um all requirements are now for the first time in 4.0 going to be subject to a reasonable to the means medium and context um context is new or um this is new here and the reason it's new is we really wanted to um allow for norms sorry context norms to come into play to help people understand what they needed to do so to the extent you are the polar commons and you're sharing um you know information under a cc license and the context in which you share it says that you can abbreviate attribution requirements in a certain way and that's customary for us then that is something you can do under our licenses so it's trying to account for not just the means whether it's wirelessly and over the internet or in hard analog versions or the medium is it burned somewhere is it played in a um is it announced over a loudspeaker at a conference and but the context so contextualization is really important now um we also make very specific something that was implied in 3.0 which is the ability to link to separate resource pages um so instead of trying to lump everything on top of uh an aggregated work or a remixed work where there are five different authors or contributors to that work you can now just simply provide a link that leads people to a resource page where all of the attribution requirements are are fulfilled we also have made very clear that license owners can waive some or all of the attribution requirements and this is even if people haven't made an adaptation um in 3.0 you had to make an adaptation or uh have a collection be made in order for the removal requirement to come into play and we heard pretty clear that you know there's not always those cases where people can be reusing our works where without in the absence of an adaptation or in the absence of a collection we're still uncomfortable with it so we've improved and allowed license owners to ask that the attribution requirements be removed here's one that diane sorry diane i'm on that the the kind of things we hear about is people saying oh well i've taken this data set it's now you know being entirely merged into another into a greater information service and uh you know it may be you know contributing to some visualization and it's not convenient or or even expected i suppose that on every uh visualization that there is a some way of saying that some of this data came from the austrian bureau statistics or something like that so are they the kind of um issues that are that are trying to be addressed by this kind of a change that's that's a that's a really great example so in that context you can instead of having all of that aggregated together and being readily parent you can simply have a link to a resource page where that information is provided which um is something that i'll get to a little later on some stacking issues but for the most part there's um explicit permission in the license to use reasonable means to provide attribution and if that's a link away to something then that's perfectly acceptable so one thing that everyone here we would love your feedback on still open for discussion are the um uniforce uh the url and link back requirements so we've included in draft three a requirement that um you have to indicate if the work here i've i've included database here that's not what the license actually says it says the work or the license material if it's modified even if no derivative has been made but if you've fiddled with or added additional data etc then you should include you need to as a requirement include a link back to the database the data set that hasn't been modified so this is a different requirement than we had in the 3.0 the requirement of 3.0 is that only if you create an adaptation of the work or the thing that's being licensed do you have to provide a link back or indicate that modifications sorry have been made you always have to provide a link back in 3.0 but if a modification then that's when you have to say i modified this work here's where you can find the original now it's any modification even if it's not an adaptation and the reason we inserted this is um we've been hearing from a lot in the data community about their concerns over you know when scientists get together and they and they fiddle with data sets i mean how people do science is they fiddle with the data sets but maybe not in a way that implicates copyright or creates an adaptation or implicates sui generis database right so how is it that we might indicate that so that downstream scientists know that hey that wasn't the original original data set that was the data set that was added to or fiddled with by scientist number two so this is why we introduced it it is open for discussion we would love to hear feedback from this community and other scholarly and scientific communities on what is the right link back requirement good well i think that means it's kind of a call for some use case scenarios that would say well here's this is how we are reusing data and that would be able to inform you know these kind of questions as to how you do it if it's modified what does what what does modified you know i assume this um definition things we assume modified and adapted etc so yeah if they have different requirements here i think at least we could give some examples there that say well here's an example of some data that's being reused in a particular portal right yeah so um just today um at a couple hours ago we posted to the cc license development list a prompt that lays out the considerations on this particular issue at the end of my presentation on the final page you'll see a place where you can subscribe to that list and you can go in and look at that particular post if you're not already a member and please provide feedback there um so moving to other things here um other attribution related features in draft three no endorsement well that's not new everyone just should feel confirmed that that's not going to change um no one can use attribution in a way that implies endorsement um there are no warranties um i'll pause here there was a big push by a few folks to include an affirmative representation and warranty by licensors that they had all of the rights that they needed in order to license the material that was under the cc license this is reminiscent of what we did in 1.0 there was a hard fought battle moving to 2.0 and 2.1 and 2.5 and 3.0 but that whole span we've never offered warranties and there are multiple reasons for that um it's not as if we don't want to encourage or you know have people engage in best behavior but there's a whole wiki page at the end that there's a link to people can go and look at the pros and cons but what we do encourage are customized disclaimers um we also have in just a moment i'll show you a new page on our um a new part of our license which um has before licensing considerations to better encourage licensors to undertake rights clearances for example um but this is something that has stayed the same although they can offer it in the end you know there's attribution easy it's flexible it's still required but you can do it in a variety of ways that hopefully will ease some of the pains of the data and scientific community karen uh sorry diane can i stop you for a moment and just go back to the point on warranties how do you see that working operationally do they insert the warranty clause somewhere uh into a copyright statement or how does that work do you hear so the license right now provide that's an excellent question the license right now provides that it's a notice that gets attached to the work so like the copyright notice we anticipate it being actually part of the copyright notice it would be a notice saying i offer warranties or more likely here's the disclaimer here's my customized disclaimer because this is how my jurisdiction tells me i need to adjust the disclaimer that's currently in the license so that it's most appropriate for my country but we expect it'll be a notice feature that we think will be part of the copyright notices for the most part we've thought about how that might be integrated into the chooser or a copyright notice wizard where people can insert the information that they want to have be persistent and have to be carried forward so it could include you know copyright you know and ds you know 2013 licensed under by you know 4.0 license here's our customized disclaimer because australian law says this is how disclaimers ought to be written and here's there's no further warranties offered that would be the nature of what we think might be the preferred way to do it although we're still working on that it's certainly an issue that comes up people wanting to make sure that the license process you know going through this putting a license on something also takes care of any you know warranties and usually you're right it's usually you know perhaps a government department or something like that saying well we don't you know we're providing this information as is but you know if somebody breaks their leg because of you know discrepancy in the weather observations then you know that's you know you use the data at your own at your own risk I suppose but you know that there's there's you know reasonable disclaimers etc and as you say they they change by jurisdiction but you I find that they the amount of risk that's people are willing to take you know varies from organization to organization and but it's heartening to know that there is a very sort of straightforward path here for making sure that those warranties are part of the license procedure yeah Adrienne we we see this in terms of osgold implementation around around the country affecting some data portals where you've got materials currently licensed under a creative commons attribution license that are downloadable from these data portals but there is a secondary disclaimer that the jurisdiction has applied to that data set as well already and and quite frankly that's confusing it's confusing particularly if there's a there's a significant difference between the disclaimers and I think we'll think about at osgold about what position we take and the current disclaimers are actually very good and I would like to sort of see use cases for using some if that's the language to use as to why the current disclaimers are not acceptable but that's probably something we can we can talk about later but just saying it doesn't rise I've seen situations where we have multiple disclaimers being used and I think for a user that can be very very confusing does take a message here for me that you know it is if you're worried about disclaiming you know disclaimers and warranties there is a way to do that using this this licensing framework so that's good Diane what else what else is new in so so this should be exciting so thanks exciting I think we're all excited this was a huge ask of a lot of institutional doctors and governments in particular we've introduced in draft 3 an automatic reinstatement of the license if the violation is cured within 30 days of discovery so reminder under 3.0 and every other version of a Creative Commons license you lose your rights automatically upon failure to adhere to the conditions so if you've messed up attribution or if you use the work and and created a derivative when you didn't think you were creating a derivative but it was under an nd work nd license or if you failed to apply a share like or what have you you lose your license under 3.0 you still lose it under 4.0 and it is still automatic but what happens now is that when you discover it upon discovery if you cure it within 30 days of discovering it then you get a reinstatement of the license now caveat that doesn't mean that licensors can feel like they're at a disadvantage that's not the case licensors are specifically granted in the license the ability to recover so if I take Baton's NC licensed blog post and I sell it for how much Baton a million dollars and then I say oops sorry I discovered my violation and I fix it Baton still has the ability to sue me to recover the million dollars or whatever I sold his blog post for so licensors still have rights to recover or to insist on you know remedies for during the violation but you know that those are these are all extreme cases I mean most of the time what happens is I forgot to provide a link back I didn't properly you know name every attribution party that Baton asked me to attribute in when I reused the house goal work or you know these are violations that are pretty you know trivial but still under all of our licenses say you lose your license it's designed to to help institutional adopters in particular who want to leverage cc license works for high value reuse instances whether it's in camp you know advertising campaigns when it's a by license or what have you it's designed to help them have confidence that if they messed up they can fix it and it's not going to be the end of the world they still have to account for it but they're it's not as if they're an ongoing infringer under the license so that doesn't require anything from the license or as well to to go out and regret a particular license it happens automatically nope it happens automatically so the other big thing um everyone will see when you open the licenses um there's a link at the end is there's a new section at the very beginning about using this public license which draws licensors to pre licensing considerations and licensees just understand please how the licenses work and what they do and don't do beta or adrian were you gonna say something else i apologize no no i think that's good you i think you've got interoperability and then some particular data things so why don't we move on to those yeah so i um i can actually pass over some of this i know we're running a little long on time my apologies interoperability it's an interesting subject interoperability is huge um there have been a lot of open government licenses in particular that have come out um you know we've spoken creative comments has spoken with many of them we really care about proliferation issues but if we can't you know stem the the tide of those because they they aren't largely about you know complaints about our licenses they're more on other issues that we can't help control if they're going to be out there then buy you know why not make them interoperable so we're really working on this so for buy and buy ncsa or buy s a and buy ncsa this is share like we two main things we're moving the core criteria out of the license and we want to expand the compatibility mechanism that buy s a has to buy ncsa and maybe i'll leave it there and just encourage people to look at the website but long story short on the second proposal is that there's no other license out there that we might even contemplate in this day and age of being compatible to be compatible with buy ncsa but if we're looking ahead if we're planning ahead given the proliferation that happens despite creative commons then we should plan for it so that we don't have to version to fix it in just another year um so all of these will get a lot of air time you guys will start seeing those posts to our blog in the next week actually they're all lined up and finished we're just staging them so that you all are not overwhelmed the other probably the more important are are buy and buy nc so between buy s a and buy ncsa the former slide here and these two licenses these are all of the licenses that allow for adaptations to be made so between these four this is where interoperability happens or it doesn't happen in these two licenses buy especially we have never specified how derivatives must be licensed adaptations we've thought about this people want to understand how how adaptations work and so the proposal in draft three and you can see it um and i have a link at the bottom of this slide um that people can only license their contributions to a derivative or an adaptation on terms that allow users of the the adaptation material that they can satisfy both the both terms of both um licenses this is difficult this is a tricky issue but it's how copyright works first and foremost it's how all of our licenses have worked for the most part to date um we haven't always been consistent on our messaging because we've been helping people license things in a way that makes it easy for downstream users but this is a very intellectually honest approach to how adaptations work and so we're floating it to our community and we'll have a major post on this in just um 24 hours good that seems so simple that that the original license sort of continues to have some influence right um data mining i can't believe this this group must be interested in data and content mining um this is weighed heavily on our science team in particular i must say that um how 4.0 treats data and content might we've received specific requests inundated with requests could you please say that data and content mining is okay it's complicated right so um as all of you know there are a myriad techniques and processes for mining and content um content and data um you can you can um very in you know crawl the web you can reproduce things momentarily or or just for a very short period of time on your um you know on your computer you can download which is clearly a copy there's many different ways this happens there's no standard to make it worse there's no harmonization between jurisdictions on this so there's no it's not as if we have a treaty that says text and data mining for research or educational purposes is an exception or limitation that signatories must implement through national law there's nothing like that so this is a really uncertain landscape and what is important to keep in mind is that you know cc licenses can really only do so much here right we are a copyright license and now we are a license for sui generous database rights and those rights that are very closely abutted to copyright and that's what we do so even though it's complicated everywhere else in 4.0 we think it's pretty clear so if what you're doing implicates copyright or the sui generous database rights so if you're downloading or if under the laws of your jurisdiction you are keeping for longer than some ephemeral copy of the downloaded content or if you there's sui generous database rights that apply and you're extracting and reusing etc and those things apply to you and there's no fair use or other exception then if that database that you're mining is licensed under a cc license permission is granted it's granted and and the the important thing to think of remember is that our licenses are limited to copyright and these similar rights it's not giving you permission to violate you know privacy or any other kinds of laws that might apply or if you are subject to a contract um access through a terms of use or something our licenses have never in any context allowed those things but as a matter of copyright and sui generous database rights permission is granted under our licenses so um watch for a new page on our wiki we're going to be explaining this in a lot more detail it's a tough topic to understand but it's increasingly relevant now that sounds uh very good actually diane the i mean you can't clarify all the problems with uh data and content mining uh in the license but you can do a good you know service to the world uh if we if people can at least be clear that yes i can take a um a data set and uh use it uh you know as long as i can take into the other legal considerations around privacy or or you know commercial for their use and etc so right um i you know i think it's a at least a ray of clarity in an area that where that's you know tends to be a little bit murky so that's good i think it's really important um for massively collaborative um efforts over the multiple jurisdictions quite frankly and i mean this is the beauty of having sui generous database rights also licensed um i worry a bit i have to be candid about over compliance so those rights don't always apply to you and the people who have licensed their databases don't always have those rights i worry about over compliance our licenses require it but people will default but the the general scheme one can see uh massive collaboration international contributors and understand that if a if a 4.0 license has been applied to them that where those rights exist permission is granted and uh so so that's pretty much the best we can do you know is is how we think about it so one other thing for the community here in particular stacking what of it my goodness you know everything in that section in our licenses in section three everything has to be kept or reasonably to the means medium and context right i've covered this before but in the data context where you have a lot of contributors stacking of all of these notices whether it's a customized notice whether it's a warranty whether it's you know all these things this is problematic and i wish i could say that we could solve this through our licenses and we can't i wish we could we've i think we've gone as far as we can but if any of you have brilliant ideas by all means bring them forth this is the time we improve but we don't fix it um what are some alternatives data in particular and and scientific data you know cc does still support cc0 the public domain dedication as um the the primary and preferred route in these projects um there are norms that will be exploring further this next year you know norms around citation and and back link backs to source and original databases etc but that really is a viable solution in many places the other is to do what i think beta and has indicated and maybe beta and you can expand on this but establish an agreement among project contributors so that people have a common understanding that when everyone contributes the result product will be under say a by license but this is how attribution will work and that's a way of minimizing all of the stacking issues from you know all of the of the requirements in section three so i'll just conclude here and then um i think we've gone way over i don't have my watch with me and i apologize seven o'clock so participate here's here's more resources please see our major issues here are some resources um we've got important issues that we'd love to hear your feedback on and contact me my email is here um if you have anything that we've now gone over time on that you'd like my feedback on or um guidance on very good we did have a before we go to baton uh if there is a quick question about um if a licensee has messed up the question is about which country's court should you file the complaint in the the license or the licensee so if someone's mucked up with my data do i have to go to their jurisdiction to file or do i stay in mine uh so that's a good question um in this draft of the license we are proposing so the license doesn't tell you where to file the license simply sets the rules for what ought be the law that applies so the customary rule is that where the work is used by the licensee so if i am sitting in the united states and i am using someone's database from the european union and i download their data and i extract and reuse a bunch of their data do database rights apply to me in the united states likely not so we've included in the final section of this draft we expected to be rigorously debated but it's where the work is used where the licensee is using the work now you can file anywhere you want our license doesn't have a form selection clause but the law that applies to the conduct at hand is the law where the licensee is using the work okay good and in most of those things you know where you file is also about um you know where you think you might have um best chances and in our case you know from the way that we're looking at using data the old licensing for data it's more about making it very clear when people can use data which is the you know the 95 percent of the time is what we're trying to do right and it's you know a really is a minority use cases to when we're trying to use it to enforce some particular other stop some other behaviors right um baton anything there before we uh move over to the an update on osgold uh look no but i'd like to thank dana and um i know you will but uh i really appreciate your time dana to have a chat with us about these very important and exciting changes and i think we're probably the first or maybe early group that you've spoken to since draft three has come out is that oh that'd be about right you're the first you're this is this is a beta as i said excellent so you've heard it here first you've heard it here first on the ends licensing webinar that's right in australia we love to be sort of early adopters and uh mess things up quickly well it's already tomorrow there right so i can't i can't even um keep my my power points up to date that's right good all right baton so what's happening on the osgold front uh any thing to highlights to bring our attention to you look i'll be i'll be very brief and i know i always say that and then prattle on for about 15 minutes but i will be very brief um the 23rd of february is international open day today so uh if you're if you're out and about on the 23rd of february check out some open data if you can or if you haven't got any ask why not um i think australia is not doing a great deal of uh any functions happening for international open day today because it's been pretty quiet but um uh there you go um on a related note uh ccan uh i see one of your colleagues mr flanders uh has uh has posted to the ends general group uh some discussion about ccan uh osgold has a ccan instance that's available for anyone in government or happy to talk to anyone in the research and innovation sector about utilizing that uh for those of you who are unfamiliar ccan is an open source data portal software and um i hear recently that is it's now going to be the platform for data.gov it is currently the platform for data.gov.uk uh a number of jurisdictions in queensland are either um implementing it or are looking at it closely um and whilst we're on the topic of data portals there is a program element within the osgold program about federating these data portals together and there's going to be a meeting of government representatives um in the latter part of march at this point in time to discuss those federation ideas and uh bed them down so um i'll probably have more to speak about after that but the idea is that if you as a user are looking for some sort of statistic from government for research or other purposes uh you type in the search it shows you the data set that matches the criteria of your search and uh then it'll ask you are you interested in similar data sets from other jurisdictions and if you say yep and you can go and check out those data sets in the jurisdictions you shouldn't as a user have to know which organization or which agency in other jurisdictions has the data set that you're looking for um you should be just be able to go to one place so we're not advocating an apex predator model where it's going to be a cross federation at this point in time um so we'll talk about that more in the future um but very very good too if we can to get the research community on board with those sorts of ideas and discussions there's also going to be a gov hack coming up later this year osgold was happy and delighted to be a sponsor of the last one last year the next one in june i think this year and there are some jurisdictions already talking about what they're doing for gov hack so there's going to be significant prize money there always is so if you haven't interested in that please keep an eye out gov hack.org i had a very a delightful opportunity to present to the Australian librarians conference in brisbane last week for those of you who were who were there and who are online it was a pleasure to meet you a pleasure to discuss osgold and open access and things of particular note to the the glam the the libraries archives the museum sector and if you if you want to get in contact further with me after those presentations be happy to do so western australia on friday the state government of western australia has announced its public endorsement of osgold as a licensing framework available to public servants in western australia it's very real days of implementation yet but it's it's great to see that the great state of western australia has taken this position at a policy level so if you are from western australia and you want to do some work opening up access to datasets they're happy to have a chat with you just ping me on the contact us page of the osgold website if we haven't been in touch ready and i would like to thank the various people across the western australian government who are involved in that policy work to push that through we're doing a lot of work internationally recently looking at some issues with poland and people who are active in the space in poland as we always are very keen to talk to people outside of our jurisdiction actually diane and i have had i don't think there's any secret or needs to be any secret we've had a few chats about about different clauses in the version of the last so i really appreciate those discussions with you diane and and look forward to having further ones as time goes on yes it may for those who are interested in the geospatial side of things the open data user group in the uk released a report around about the 8th of february indicating that with respect to addressing data they are speculating about a possible 100 to one return on investment by opening up access to the uk's addressing data similar sorts of discussions have been had here in australia and i know there are a lot of researchers who are who are interested in that those sorts of data sets as well if you are interested in addressing data and open access to that kind of data it's worth having a look at that report it's available as i say through the open data user group website just some date claimers if you happen to be in new south wiles i'll be speaking to the australian computer society in their delegates on the 12th of june please feel free to contact them and make some arrangements it's open to non-members i understand by arrangement this time so if you do go look forward to catching up with you there i've got a number of other meetings with geophysicists sorry geophysicists and geologists from the state governments around the country of the next month or so as well as there's some movement happening in the open data space in queens and the queensane government in early april so i look forward to catching up with people in brisbane there when that happens uh and in january just a quick plug for the uh or a hat tip or thank you very much to the people at the uh the open knowledge foundation uh they were very kind in appointing me to position as a member of the advisory council in the open definition i think diane uh one of your colleagues michael linksfair is is heavily involved there and uh yes that's right that's very exciting it's very exciting yes so for those um he's he's terrific he he leads a lot of discussion there that group discusses things like uh bespoke open government licenses and there are a few examples around really open um and what improvements ought to be made to them and they're kind of the keepers of the open definition at least as it relates to the position of the open knowledge foundation so uh a hat tip and thank you very much to mike um aside from that there've been a number of policy movements in victoria uh the they're about to release the open government guidelines for the victorian public service um so that uh some action can happen there in accordance with their data vic access policy um the department of business and innovation has some material on its website about that um interesting things to note they're looking at 1 000 data sets on data dot vic by september so if you're interested in that or if you're a victorian government please give dbi a call or uh department of treasury and finance i believe is the other organization with responsibility for the policy direction that's me in a nutshell adrian thank you very much he's a busy chap isn't he baton it's about oh i should say one more thing adrian actually he has an office of a hundred people labirates baton bleeding a coalition of the willing really i i should say one more thing please uh follow us do follow us on uh the twitter handle ad olsgoal uh love to have your patronage to our our twitter feed and i'm just finding it it's so easy um read equals lazy um uh to just post updates to twitter so um some of my other channels uh not so frequently updated we do have linked in and we are going to get back into the blog scene very soon i should i should mention we're coming very close to finalizing our new look website so we're we're changing a lot of things we've got um we're unlocking the osgoal practitioners area it's going to be a completely new look and feel a lot more resources are going on we're reinvigorating the blog posting again and uh a whole heap of things like that so so that's uh osgoal osgoal.gov.au is that right yep osgoal.gov.au is the website and at osgoal is the twitter handle at osgoal okay terrific yeah good if you can keep up with baton well done um and uh so Diane thank you very much for um giving us that you know briefing on what's happening in uh creative comments it really is terribly exciting and it's good that we've had advanced notice we can uh get in and uh you know give some final feedback at these critical moments and uh as it's heading towards press all the best for the next month or two all strength to your arm you're doing great job for everyone here we really um feel the uh the benefits and and the need for this kind of um standardization around licensing and reuse um statements so uh it's doing it's being very bit positive effects here in Australia and the reuse of data and other information so um hope that all works out well for the release of um version four uh where should we for what's the best you had a slide there is that right with um things for you to follow is that right places which people can follow this debate on i did yes and this slide and the whole presentation will be up on the and's website soon but where's the the major place for following that so Diane that would be on our um on our web blog and then on the licensed draft so this um i can i can go to it but the licensed draft page here and uh but but you should be able to find it anywhere we're we're overpopulating the world with the information so they said they're up on the screen now the key open issues and the licensed drafts and all that cc blog and cc four terrific um i think that's all uh do we uh and if people want to contact you Diane is that through the cc website is that right or do they can contact me directly here's my slide um i'm diane at creative commons dot org okay beautiful with one all right well one in yes yeah good we should let you go off and uh relax a bit before you head off to sleep um diane we'll wish you thank you so much agn and and thank you Australian yeah wish you an Australian good afternoon and um we hope to perhaps we'll get you back in later in the year once the um cc four is established and we can go over the um you know how things are finally turned out my pleasure thank you all right all right goodbye everyone with a the next licensing webinar is on the 11th of april and we're lining up dr kevin cullen is the head of innovations at university of new south wales and that we'll be talking about making intellectual property available for innovation purposes and that's particular the um where licensing and innovation and patents overlap so that's another fascinating area thank you very much and uh we'll see you all about our next webinar all right