 Hi, I'm Lenny Sokol and this is Brad nice to meet you. We are here today to talk about professional wrestling in Vermont Which is interestingly not really around it used to be but we also want to talk about the effects it could have on our Local culture and potential benefits it could have So yeah as far as we can tell the last promotion in Vermont closed about 15 or 20 years ago or so And since then there hasn't really been that much pro wrestling around here So we Let's see. Where do you want to start with this? We want to start with Scripted versus fake, right? Okay. So yeah, we will we want to discuss opinions people have about pro wrestling How it's yeah, how it's sort of viewed by the community and how we envision it could go from the future All right, so it seems like the biggest problem that people have with pro wrestling is the fact that it is scripted I Say scripted with air quotes, but it is and that's a big turnoff for a lot of people Which is very interesting to me because and this is an opinion that's shared along among quite a few different people that I've heard over and over again is that Every TV show that you watch is scripted well any any fictional TV show, you know, I mean you watch the news sure That's not. Oh, I mean even that is scripted. Yeah, and so it doesn't necessarily really take away from the story that you're experiencing because that is truly Well, at least that's what I love about pro wrestling. It's sure it's the athletic Incredible things that you're gonna see but it's the stories that they tell the the compelling narratives The struggles good against evil good against good, you know evil against evil it could be anything and Even just cool stuff whether it be stunts or you know whole persona that you're just into yeah And so it's just very surprising to me that people kind of stop there with the with the whole scripted versus not Yeah, well, I actually have a few friends who I think the error isn't comparing it to things like UFC where You know too linearly do they compare it because comparing is fine But just being like oh, it's not as real as this these guys are really trying to you know beat each other up They serve different purposes And that's a common misconception that you want to see these two guys actually fighting it out Which like is cool if you don't want to see that But the point of professional wrestling is really to convey a story line Create a narrative. Yeah So I just lost my train of thought Yeah, it can be more violent than your tip right sports though, right? Yeah, so my a big point I want to point out with like the difference between UFC and wrestling is that You when you're watching a UFC fight M&A MMA fight You're watching it to see people get beat up and you should watch it to see people get hurt Which isn't necessarily the case with wrestling you you want to see violence sure an exciting wrestling match is a really great thing but the view you don't really Necessarily want to see someone Carted out on a stretcher because that's it kind of ruins the mood for everybody especially when you're everybody's there to have fun Another good point. I think would be that like in an MMA fight it can be over like that, right? You can start in the last 15 seconds a wrestling match You know it can go for Forever I've seen wrestling matches that go up to like at least an hour man I can't stand it when I go over a fight night on Saturdays with bunch of my buddies and we watched it A lot of them in a fight and when you get to the headline fight and it's over in like 30 seconds. It's just like come on Really? Yeah, um, yeah, it's fun to watch but like you get inconsistencies in the thing you're watching. Mm-hmm, you know and utilizing a match to tell a story too like For instance pay-per-view. I watched over the weekend. They came out to the ring carrying a body bag And like one of them ended up in the body bag like during the course of the course of the night and it was like playing and played into this whole like being unafraid to like put yourself through that kind of like harm and everything and There are moments of comedy to it too. Absolutely anything you want with it. It's amazing Which actually I think is a good segue into How we think that it could benefit the community especially if we had some sort of a community-driven program that was possibly associated with You know different different aspects of arts theater you know If we get the sports community involved and everything and like kind of bring those are really the two main spirits that Professional wrestling sort of conjoins is that the sports and the drama, which you know You think of a classic high school like drama kids sports kid not getting along. I don't know. It's sort of school you grew up in but The blending of those two cultures is a unique and powerful thing and both those things have a lot More in common than you think the potential for building up confidence Finding a group identity that you identify with and creating identity for yourself. That's empowering And this isn't just for kids too, you know, which is something that we want to talk about a little bit. Yeah, we'll get there Yeah, but for adults too Both these things are really good. You see adult programs for drama and sports and for professional wrestling to people getting into it later in life and Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, and it just is amazing for the confidence. It's good for you physically You're not only learning how to do, you know, all these performances, but you're learning like difficult stunts You're lifting up some body over your shoulders. You know, you want to get strong enough to do cool stuff like that. Yeah, totally Yeah, and there's so there's so many elements so many aspects of it and furthermore Like building on the whole you mentioned kids It would be I think it would be the coolest thing if we had a program around here That was engaging kids and pro wrestling because it's a it's this amazing thing that has an ability to take people out of their shells and bring them into a headspace that is not necessarily one that they would always live in and You know, you could it's this cross appeal between You know drama kids or kids that are really into, you know, storytelling and reading or anything like that They would be interested in that element of it the sports kids would be all interested and coming in and doing all of the really cool moves I like I know when I was when I was really young my My parents offered to sign me up for a wrestling program and I was so excited and I showed up there And it turns out it was traditional wrestling and it was just the most disappointing thing. I was so sad I only lasted like a couple weeks It and it just wasn't fun because it didn't have That fun. Yeah, that fun element about it Which I know that a lot of people can find that in sports But that's something that I've never really been able to find that in sports that gap for you. Yeah I would absolutely bridge that gap because You don't necessarily need to be the most athletic person to be a great wrestler I mean just look at like an example might actually be John Cena He he's he's a big guy sure, but if you've ever watched one of his wrestling matches, it's a yawn fest They're really boring matches He carries himself through his on-screen promos and the way that he engages his audience The fact that he's a mean anything the fact that he's a meme doesn't hurt That really just buys into all of it that can only make you stronger in pro wrestling So yeah, I think that would be such a great Opportunity for kids to have Bringing them out of their shells and introducing them to new things making them more confident stepping in other people's shoes telling stories Getting across moral points. If you if you so choose, you know, absolutely. Absolutely. There's been a lot of research That's been done into role-playing Specifically for the development of children not just young children though There's a lot of focus on that but throughout You know all the age ranges of children and role-playing does all these really really great things for people who have low self-confidence people who have trouble speaking in public All sorts of things And it's not just something for young children. It's actually starting to be used in universities as a method for gaining perspective Not just enacting classes, but in classes like the ones we're taking yeah It's a way to really explore parts of yourself and your own understanding that you normally don't get access to and For some people that's a really Critical part of their own personality. Yeah, I know that I'm always really jealous of Anybody that was like, oh, yeah, my family and I have been playing D&D since I was five That's me man. I Always wish that could have been me because that would have really helped me to come out of my shell a lot More as a kid and heck the most fun characters to play are the Jack ogres and dwarves who just like toss boulders and stuff like man I wish I was in a professional wrestling when I was younger Yeah, I would have been all about that. See you all about that. My preference is more towards like The the mystical like spellcasting sorcerers barns music all that which is like, you know My favorite parts of pro wrestling to you take you take like the undertaker who has this Incredible mystique about a guy with such the win streak. Yeah He comes from another world. He is this other worldly being that comes in and destroy is and like it's Yeah, this unstoppable force and when he goes away. He doesn't die. He's just disappears. He goes to another realm I think whatever and you know, I love that suspension of disbelief that comes with wrestling You don't need to know like the fact that it's not real is part of the show It's it's the same sort of enthusiasm you see with people like really into Star Wars or the rings or Star Trek Like you just just like looking at your eyes as you're talking like that You guys probably see it too Just like the amount of excitement and enjoyment and like passion that goes into these stories that happen. So You know, I'm sure we were walking around the street interviewing some people and it's it's like there's a hidden Following in Vermont, you know, their their eyes would light up just like his like you want to talk about what professional wrestling? Yes, you know, so I think there's an itch we've started to scratch it here All right, there's a couple more things that I just want to cover really quick before we run out of time here the the idea of Something that we talked about before was the embracing the violence in our nature and in a way that was Safe and like so I think we can all agree that humans human beings aren't necessarily the most Inherently peaceful like we want to be we enjoy peace. We like getting along with each other But it's the goal. Yeah, but but we sometimes we would just love to see some guys beating up on each other because it's just fun It's you love to pick a side. You love to get involved with it and So it kind of provides that outlet without actually, you know going to to go see some gladiators Chop some people's heads off Like you used to be way back in the day that was the most popular form of entertainment. It was it was So it you know Society is a whole I think benefits from creative outlets for that sort of Energy that kind of energy and so one last point would just be the point of role models. Yeah and we talked about how You know people that you might not might idolize as a kid real-life people You know people are fallible. I know that in the past I've Found out something about somebody that I thought was incredible that oh man really I don't know my favorite quarterback like is that really mean to his wife or whatever you stuff you don't like finding out right and sure and I Something I love about wrestling is that it gives you the ability to have those heroes and know that they're characters And know that they aren't necessarily a real person know that they like, you know, whoever is playing the character Sure, they're fallible, but that character can be a hero They're like Captain America exactly Yeah, and everybody needs heroes. I I think I need yours. Yeah, I need heroes So, yeah, I think that about wraps up our our conversation on Wrestling pro wrestling in the Burlington area and what we could hope to see from that in the future And hopefully we've given you something to think about. Thanks very much for joining us