 speaking here to Drew Brophy, joined by his wife, Maria, at their gallery in San Clemente, California, which has all kinds of visionary art, surfboards, and a really good feeling to be here. When you, when you, so I met you in Nosara, you spoke to our group, described your experience. I'm going to link to the video that you put on YouTube, so people can know what we're talking about, but it profoundly, it affected me quite profoundly. And it wasn't because of any of the metaphysical concepts, like the ideas, it wasn't because of the ideas, but it was because your experience was alive in you, and you were speaking directly from it. Like it's a difference between somebody describing a place that they've actually been to and remember, and somebody just reciting a story about it, you know. And I know that it wasn't easy for you to make your way back to here from where you were, but I want to thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. I don't, I don't know if I could even articulate it again, as well as I did that night. It was, I was nervous to even talk about it. It was the first time. Yeah. I told friends, but my wife, of course. Yeah, you don't need to tell the story again. Yeah. It's on. It's there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just what a unique experience. And I'm not, I'm not sure what to do with it. Before, before we were recording, you spoke of feeling like a little bit, you didn't quite, you didn't say impatient, but almost, I got the sense of almost a little bored with the kind of trivialities of modern life here and the concerns and things. Yeah, you know, I was so focused on getting better for the longest time, which was a battle. And I finally feel myself again. I feel strong. I feel that, you know, I'm going to be better than I was physically. And you know, now that I'm there, I'm just realizing for the first time that my ambition is gone. My anger for anything is gone. You know, I'm forever changed. I don't even think I fully am aware of all the things that changed in me. I'm discovering them every day. I feel strong and I feel powerful, not because of my feet physique, but the mental and information that's been given to me. And there again, I haven't even scratched the surface of what is there. There's no words. I'm struggling with it. But I just find it so odd. I'm just, I don't know. It's almost like I've come back a different person and I'm looking at everything so radically different that I'm just struggling to be here. I have a lot of compassion. I have a lot of patience. But even that is wearing thin. And I'm super grateful. But at the same time, I'm just, I'm trying to be patient. I'm waiting for it to tell me what I'm supposed to do. And I'm not sure if that'll ever come. So yeah. When I was seven years old, I think I was seven, maybe six. I was a little kid. I had, I was lying in my bed and the horror dawned on me of what death meant as it had been presented to me in my culture and my birth religion of atheism. You know, growing up, like the idea of God was ridiculed in my household or of any afterlife. I mean, we basically, by age six or seven, I'd kind of taken in the idea that we're meat machines and that consciousness is a function of the brain and that when you die, it is the end of all things. The utter extinguishment, utter, you know, the snuffing out like a candle flame of consciousness. Could you comment on that from what you've experienced? Because I know a lot of people, like on some level, that dread eats at a lot of people. Yeah, I can just, you know, a couple of things come to mind. And number one, before that moment, when the doctor told me I was going to die, number one, my mental state, that my life prepared me for the way I thought, came in, you know, that was the, you can't decide in that moment the way you're going to react to that. It's something that you've lived your life prior to that. And you're this person that either has the mental ability to make your own decisions and deal with that concept. You're either going to buckle like, oh my gosh, I'm going to die, and that fear takes over. Or in my case, I was like, no, I'm not. I'm not going anywhere. And that was the way I thought. And I was not afraid. I was understanding the reality of the situation that possibly I could die. But, you know, that's if my body's broken, there's nothing I can do about that. I had no idea where I was going to go. I was sad that I was not going to see my son again. I was sad that, you know, lots of people I wasn't going to see. And I was having to say goodbye to Maria through a window. And all the doctors and nurses are, you know, hazmat suits and face shields and masks. And I'm just like, man, this is not the way to go anyway. But when I slipped away, it was seamless. It was like, obviously, you're not your body. Like instantly, it was just like, oh my gosh, I'm not that. I wasn't sure what I was. It was like I was just being sucked in this energy into the river of energy and I was just astounded with the immensity of what I was. That there was no, like, you didn't know where you began and where you ended. You were like everything. You know, you struggled to come up with the words to describe this feeling. It was beautiful. It was so comforting. It was like going home. I think everybody that has these types of experiences struggle immensely on how to articulate it to other people. And so they come up with ways to, you know, say, you know, it was a tunnel, it was a light. It was, you know, there was friends there. It is all of those things, but not exactly. It's more like a feeling that you're trying to describe a feeling that it was not something you see. It was timeless. But yet I felt like I was, I forgot all about this place. I forgot all about my family. It was like your whole life was like a, not even a microsecond, it was like infinite times smaller. And that when I remembered that I had to go back, I didn't know how to get here. I didn't know what it was. It was like totally backwards. Like you don't know about that place from here. And when you're in that place, you don't know this place. It's just like, it's strange to say the least. But there's nothing to be afraid of. There never was. Not here, not there. You don't die. You're never ending. Sometimes, you know, sometimes I get asked metaphysical questions, which I don't always enjoy. But when I'm in the mood, sometimes I'll describe like this paradox of on some level knowing that this is all a very ephemeral play. Like, and the question comes up, well then why should I care? But when actors go into a production, a theater production of, you know, Macbeth or something like that, you don't see them in the middle of the performance saying, hold on a second. He's not really the king. You know, that's just an actor. That's just, no, like for the duration of the production, you play it as if it were real. You enter into that reality. Even if some part of you knows that it is contained in a much, much bigger reality, you still play, you play that role the best you can. And you actually do take something from the production with you. Because whatever capacities you develop in that play, they evolve your soul. So yeah, and a refinement and a growth. And it's like even if you're playing, you know, like in some online world and you could be like really manipulative and rapacious in that world, or you could be really generous and give away your experience points or whatever your tokens to other virtual players. And you're you're sending a pulse of generosity into that world that then it rises up even into like people who encounter you in that virtual world like, oh, you know, someone was kind to me even in this game. Yeah. You know, so there's there's, I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm trying to like speak a little bit to what you said earlier that struck me quite a lot, you know, about like looking for like, why have you come back? Yeah. And what is this all about? Why are you here? And I'm I guess I'm trying to like grow up my way toward a reason because, you know, you can ask the same question, not only about why did Drew Brophy make this arduous journey of recovery? I mean, you were in, you said it was brutal, you know, to come back into your body and to learn to walk again and all that. Like, why did you do that? We can ask the same question to any baby. Like, why? Why? Like, I mean, it's a pretty arduous journey, you know, and then why? Why do we come here into this realm? I wonder if you have, even if you can't articulate it like whatever just comes to you. Yeah. Yeah. I came back from my wife and son. For your wife and son? They need me. Especially now. That was clear to me. It was no, it was like, I've got to go back. I got to go back and help them. And I realized that it's not about me. It's not about, you know, any person from that individual perspective. It's about everybody else. I think once you come to this realization or been shown this grandness of who you are, who you really are, you realize it's, you've got to help the others. And even if that's just in compassion for their suffering or their disconnection from the whole, that you, you know, like I feel like I've lost all the ambition for myself. I don't care. It's gone. I have nothing to prove to anybody. It's such a different feeling from where I used to be. I felt like I had to prove to the world that I could do this or I could do that or, you know, oh, look at me. I can do, you know, and it's just gone. The only thing I try to do now, and this has been a short time. I mean, it's just been a couple of months I felt like myself. But I literally look at the world, every person I come into contact with and say, am I a positive or negative on this person's experience? I don't want to be a negative on anybody's experience. It's hard enough as it is being disconnected from who you really are. And I see that now. The experience is so profound. So, so a very cynical person might say, well, what does it matter other people's experience here when they're just going to end up in this profound bliss heavenly state anyway? What does it all matter? Why bother making any positive impact on other people's lives? I don't really think about it as a choice. It just is. It's like, I don't know that the, you know, the compassion for others is just in this experience here. It's almost like I see myself in everyone. When I first left my body, I instantly felt part of everything in everyone. That's the best way I could describe it. And it was instant. It was like all of this one thing. It's like almost like I was every person. I would live their lives, not just all the people here, but like everybody that ever lived ever. It's like, well, like holy smokes, like all of a sudden you had this knowing and you're just like, Oh my gosh, all the hard things that I've had to endure thinking of I as everybody, all the different experiences and then the joys. And I think the idea is the universe is having all this contrast because it doesn't know the experience. So we're having this experience in contrast of, you know, positive and negative or you know, dark and light and all this kind of stuff. There's no way to understand the joys, you know, at one extreme without the darkness. And you could say that it's maybe trying to find balance, but anytime somebody's going through something horrible, they're doing it for all of us so that you can have the joy. You can experience that. And it's almost like the worst. It gets the more of the joy could go up. So it's, I don't look at it as good and bad now. I look at it as contrast, universe is seeking contrast. And so the reason that you're nice to people is just you're being nice to yourself. You know, I felt that when I was at my worst and when it was dark, like it was just dark, you know, where I was, couldn't move, couldn't talk, you know, doctors and nurses are talking about how they're surprised I'm still here. I probably won't be there in the morning. The room will be available for somebody else. And you're just like, oh, great. They think I'm going to die tonight. So I guess I got to stay alive. And, you know, and then one person would be nice, like a nurse would come hold my hand all night. That's why you're nice to people. Because when it's super dark, super hard, that one simple act of kindness is powerful. Yeah. And everybody needs that. Why not help them? It's so easy. It's so important for people to know this information that you're speaking because a lot of times these simple acts of kindness are totally invisible and uncelebrated. No one applauds them. You don't get paid a lot of money for doing them. You know, they don't necessarily go viral on YouTube. Like it can be really like people need to know that no act of kindness is ever wasted. Yes. And it's not just actions, it's thoughts. The thoughts are powerful. Tremendously powerful. So it's important you have control of your mind and your thoughts because they're just as powerful as your actions. Maybe even more. Not just for others, but for yourself. That that was very clear to me. That just the simple thought of kindness or compassion or empathy towards another without even having an action behind it. Just noticing somebody's having a hard time and you're like, oh, man, you know, I hate it when that happens to me as poor a person. You know, just that thought is helping them. It's important that people know that that your thoughts are, it's all mind when they take everything away from you, like my body was completely taken from me. My body was dead. And my mind was still there, holding space, not allowing this body to die. It was all mind. There was nothing else. And I couldn't talk to anybody. So you know, the only way I was communicating was with my mind. And that was the only way I was getting anything. And it worked. It was there. And it's amazing how sharp your mind gets when all these other things are taken away. Kind of like, you know, we lose a sense. And it's, it's kind of hard to talk about because people are probably like, oh, yeah, it's got to know what you're talking about. But I mean, trust me, when you're that deep in a hole, trapped in your body, I mean, that locked in syndrome of, you know, just it's a, it's a predicament to be in. And you can wheel your way out of it. But you can't do it alone. I did it with others. All these people praying for me, my wife fighting for me. That it literally was giving me the energy to survive. It's almost like collectively, if we all are the universe, the universe would not let me die. It's crazy. There's what you were saying about, about negative thoughts and stuff. You know, one of the reflexes that people have in this culture and modern culture is to wish ill on others. And it's kind of like there's this kind of justification, well, this is a bad person. So, you know, it would be better for the planet if whoever, you know, is the enemy du jour Donald Trump, you know, or Vladimir Putin or whatever, if they could just, they would build gates, you know, if they would just die. And there's like the secret wish, maybe that they suffer something horrible and that'll show them. And not to mention, well, it's one thing I'd like you to comment on, but there's another piece I've been recently tuning into various hemorrhaging wounds in the collective, like in Haiti right now, where there's a lot of starvation and desperation. And so like, these gangs are kidnapping kids and then, you know, demanding money. And they make it known that not only will they kill your child, if you don't find some way, and these are not rich kids, okay, yeah, they're like taking kids of other poor people. And if you don't find some way, they're going to torture your child too. And like this, like this, like, I just like touch this horror, you know, and I feel like, like, it's like a hemorrhage, it's not just like human beings, you know, it's like the earth itself is like hemorrhaging it's, it's, it's blood, the land itself is in agony. And like, again, it invites this, this rage and this hate toward the people doing this kind of thing. And one thing that I heard you say, and speak of is compassion for the people doing it, not just the people suffering from it. And maybe you can lay that out a little bit. Yeah. You know, I'm finding that I just have all these information. It's like it's not mine. It's like it came from the other side. And, you know, people can co-bullshit on it or whatever. But, I mean, it's just there. I don't know what to do with it. And there's no good or bad. It's just contrast. And it seems, from what I saw, it's literally like a vibration. And the vibration is contagious. And we're like creation machines. We do that through vibration. This vibration, this disconnection is what you would call evil. And, you know, this, you know, it could be greed. It could be narcissism, any of this stuff. Psychopathic behaviors, like it's a product of the disconnection from all that is. They're literally just so separated from it that they can't control themselves. And the vibration is like a disease that once it propagates through people, it's really hard to change it. And the only way to change it is through a different vibration. And that's why... Because I do want to change it. Like, you can say, okay, it's contrast and the exquisite joy requires the contrast. But I'm like, for me, it's not worth it if people are suffering what they're suffering in Haiti or Mali or the Congo. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, is it wrong for me to not want that? No, it's not. But from what I saw, the only way to combat it is through love and compassion for these people. They're so disconnected. The vibration is just as powerful as that negative vibration, if not more so. And so, it's like fighting wars. It's like both negative vibrations, painful and awful. It just gets worse and worse and worse until everybody's affected by this vibration. And it takes a long time to recover from that. It takes a lot of good vibration to change it. So, if you want to create a better world, you have to be the opposite vibration. It is the only way. It's the only thing that works. Ending the suffering for somebody is through love and they'll come to that realization. It's almost like reconnecting them to the source. And once they get there, they're like, oh my gosh, forgive me for what I've done. I didn't know. I had a conversation once with Andrew Harvey. He's a theologian and activist, super smart guy and quite well connected. He told me a story about he had this conversation with a billionaire. And the billionaire, he was talking about compassion and stuff. And the billionaire was like, cut the shit. He said, yeah, we're killing indigenous people to extract the oil and the gold and the Venezuela. And we know exactly what we're doing and we like it. He said, I've got Barack Obama on my cell phone right now. I could call him up right now and he would answer the phone. I like that. I like my life. I like being powerful. I like dominating others and I'm not ashamed of it. He said that to Andrew Harvey, to saying, don't be so naive as to think that love and compassion can change the world. And when Andrew told me that, I took it in and I was like, I don't believe him. It sounds to me that he was protesting. But what he really wanted was an escape from what he was telling himself he wanted. But I wonder, I don't know, like, I think that power is an illusion. And it's almost like this whole life is an illusion. We got it backwards. This is not the real life. That is the real life. That was also very clear to me. And then it's almost like playing a game, a video game. And, you know, the object is to win in these games. And that's the way people treat life. But that's not the object. There's no winning. That's not what it is. It's all about experience. And, you know, this whole way this world operates, you know, especially now is, like I said, almost as this disease is taken over, whether you call it greed or narcissism, you know, all these types of things. It's like a vibration. Separation. Yeah. And I think our true state is this connectedness. We've lost it. And I think our true state is when you're connected, there is no lying to other people. You would never lie to the because this is it's you. And this is how we did magnificent things in the past, these brief moments where we were connected together and we worked together and did amazing things. Now that same type of thing can be used against us to, you know, deceive us and, you know, form groups or wars and things like that as well. You know, it's all the same thing. It's just the intent. And you're misguided by the fact that you think you're trying to win this game. But that's not the object of the game. What's the object of the game? The object of the game is have this experience and come to this realization that it's not about you. It's about the blessing of the fact that the universe has created all of this, the energy that flows through us. We're not this, we're the energy. The energy is some type of self-organizing system. And it's flowed through the solar system and onto this planet. And the earth has created these bodies for the energy to live in or the energy has coerced the earth to create these bodies. And it's ever changing. The conditions change. The bodies change. It's never stops. It's never going to die. It's never going to stop traveling, moving. It's doing this everywhere, everywhere it can at different stages of complexity and whatnot. We might be the leading edge or maybe other places have gone much further. So it's not to win the game. It's to constantly evolve to become better. It's almost like this energy of who we really are. It's learning. It's having this experience. It's so beautiful. All of it. Just to be here and just be like, wow. You know, look around stuff and the things that we can make and envision and especially when we work together. I mean, every little thing from an iPhone to a car to like one of these paintings to new ways to experience the world, whether it be surfing or playing football. Music. Music. Oh my God. But you just think about the amazing thing you've been given this body that's so unbelievable. It can do all of these things with this limited functionality. I mean, I look at my body now. I'm like, what the hell am I like? I just am amazed at the fact that I'm a surfer that you can actually ride a wave. This energy has traveled through the galaxy and funneled in the sun and then the sun has rained down at solar wind on us and caused the pressure gradients and the winds to stir up the seas to organize them into waves that hit our coastline. And we can physically come up with a way to shape a piece of foam and fiberglass that we can ride it. And you think the wave, you know, it's been it's been generated by all these forces that it's going to hit the beach and it's going to die there on the beach releasing that energy and you get to ride it. But the energy didn't die. It was just released from that liquid. Right. But the energy's still there and you felt it in your body. You're like, oh my gosh, like after you ride one of those big waves, especially like in the tube, I mean, you vibrate for weeks. You're just like, oh my gosh, it's addicting. You can't wait to do it again. So this whole embodied existence is also like riding a wave and you come to the end, it breaks on the shore and the energy's released. It goes into the physical and then once it's released, it goes back in and it can keep going. Very similar to the body. We enter the body is, you know, almost like a, you know, like a wave on the ocean. It gets, you know, the pressure forces it into the water. The water moves. Our bodies are probably the same way. Everything. It's in various stages of, you know, being put into something and released from something, depending on how dense it is, I guess. When we were in Costa Rica, that's where we met. Yeah. You know, it was incredibly beautiful. It was like a piece of heaven. Just the music, the incredible musicians gathered, you know, the location, looking out over the ocean, you know, the sunsets. I mean, it was like living in the realm of the gods. Yeah. And just again and again, I had these moments of incredulity that this blissful, incredible thing could exist in the same planet as all of the horrors and the degradation and the despair, you know, all in the same planet. And it's like, you know, when you're speaking of the waves, you know, and you can ride the waves, you know, we have these bodies and it's like this whole planet, it's like a playground, you know, this whole materiality, it's like a playground, it's a gift. And it could be, and then because like, you know, I'm politically very aware, you know, and so at the gathering in Costa Rica, there's part of me like a cynical voice that I really don't identify with anymore, but a cynical voice saying, well, this is only possible built on the backs of the suffering of so many others. And it's, you know, my friend's money who's making it possible and it's we're all very privileged and so forth. And I was like, no, actually, this could be the norm. If we didn't spend 99% of our creative energy, hating each other, protecting ourselves from each other, guarding against each other, dominating each other, like all the suffering in the places I mentioned, Haiti, Congo, all of the suffering is because of what we are doing to each other. It's not nature doing it to us. It's mind. Yeah. It's all mind, like the people in Haiti, you know, you could say it's an economic problem. Yeah. But it's not. It's a mental problem. All of the problems are mental. And to be clear, you're not saying that the people there have a mental problem so that they're suffering this. It's a global psychic field that erupts in some places almost to be cleared. Like people have to live these life stories in order for the healing of the totality. Yeah. It's, I mean, if people could just change the way they think and that vibration that they're putting out is, you know, all they have to do. But can people do that with an act of will? Like what made you change the way you think? You know, I can remember when I was a kid, you know, I grew up in the South and so I was raised to be very polite, be a man of my word, you know, and I prided myself on that. Like if I said I was going to do something, I was going to do it. And I grew up with people that were that way. You trusted somebody's bird. And then I got out in the world and I found out, well, nobody's playing by those rules. Somebody would say they're going to do something and they did it. Or, you know, they would act a certain way one way and then, you know, not at other times. So it was a real shocker for me to discover. I was like, Oh, wow, not, you know, we're all playing a game, but not everybody's playing by the same rules. And that was kind of a harsh, you know, reality. But it didn't make me change the way I was. And I just look out in the world now and somebody can, you know, decide to start thinking differently. And, you know, for me, you know, I think I've always been that way. But after this, you know, I call it like an expedited lesson plan, which was this sickness and near death and recovery. It's almost like the universe was trying to teach me a lesson. And it had a lot to teach me. And it didn't have time to do it in a slow fashion. So it just freaking zapped me. And it must have known that I could handle it. And my wife could handle it. Poor thing went through hell. Yeah, I'd like to maybe, Maria, invite you in if you want to add something or invite something from Drew or just say anything. Come here with us. Well, what I was just thinking about when you, you were talking about the lesson, right? And boy was that a harsh way to learn near death. Almost a year of suffering. And I remember when before you went in the hospital, this was early November 2021. And we were both really sick, but you were sicker than I was. And so Drew was in bed all day every day for quite a few days. And I've never seen him sick. Like that had been 20 years since I saw him sick. And I realized he, you know, is serious. And so I decided to do some rapey energy work on him, which I did. And at the end, I asked for a intuitive message, which I normally do after a little energy work. And I usually get a pleasant message. But this message that I got was very clear. And the message said, the lesson is not over yet. And it was so ominous. I just remember getting goosebumps and thinking, oh, that doesn't feel good at all. And then it was only a few days later that he ended up in the hospital. And even after they put him on the ventilator and the doctors, the doctor gave me three different scenarios. And all three of them basically ended in Drew's death. He said either A is going to happen, B is going to happen, or C is going to happen. And I remember my brain just clicking like going, okay, there's got to be like another option. There's something else. One thing that I understood early on, though, that first week that he was in the hospital, I really, as terrifying as it was, I had a knowing that this was something we were supposed to go through. And at the time I had no idea how bad it was going to get. I was oblivious to what was in store for us, which is a good thing. Because if I had a crystal ball and I knew, I don't think I would have been able to handle it. Yeah, it kept getting worse no better. Every day. More bad news, more bad news. And that lesson was not just for Drew, but there were lessons for me in there also. Because it happened to me also. I mean, I suffered almost as much as he did. And my lessons were different. And when I take a bird's eye view from it all now, I realized that this thing that happened to us affected and impacted friends, family, community, and people we didn't even know that knew Drew, that knew us because of the work we do. I got messages, countless messages from people that, you know, this changed them. People that we didn't even know. I had one guy walk in here in the gallery and say, I, you know, it was a guy that we knew, photographer, and he said, I had a very specific plan to go kill myself. And then I saw on Instagram that Drew was in the hospital on a ventilator. And it stopped me. And he started crying as he was telling me this story. And he said, you know, I was going to do it because I felt like my life had no meaning and nobody was going to notice me gone. And then when I saw that this happened to Drew, it woke me up. And so I think that maybe these, these really impactful events, some of them have meaning, maybe not all of them, maybe some of them are just bad luck and they really suck. But I'm at peace with, I'm at peace with the trauma that we went through. I'm still working through it. But I know that a lot of good came out of it. Yeah, I felt the impact of it. You know, I didn't even know you before. Yes, it's like, back to what I was saying earlier about, that's why you have to have compassion for people because they're going through these experiences for the all. And I felt that in my experience, it's almost like I was suffering through that experience to be a witness from that side for everyone else. So then in some ways, they got the experience too. And it left them, you know, thankful for their own lives, for their own experiences, for their own families. It was like a big reminder that, yeah, this, this is all going to be taken away from you. Yeah. And this, this time, this brief time that we're given to be here and have these experiences makes you realize that you're here to, you know, like creation and destruction are the same thing. It's different polarities of the same thing. And we should create more. You know, that's what we are, creation machines. This kind of circles back a little bit to the rhetorical question I asked earlier, you know, can you change your thoughts by an act of will? Yes. Because you're speaking about how this experience changed you and changed your thoughts and how it's radiating out and changing the thoughts of me right now. And maybe people listening to us talk. And where that takes me is like maybe the counterpart to your thoughts are powerful, control your thoughts, think good thoughts. Maybe the counterpart to that is to realize with incredible humble gratitude, my goodness, my thoughts are changing. Thank you. And paradoxically, like, I think the way to change your thoughts actually isn't by force. It's not like, Oh, bad thought, push that one aside. Oh, good thought, do that one. It's to fully receive the blessing of good thoughts because the more gratitude that I feel for my good thoughts, that like opens the gateway to let more of them in. And I don't have to actually control my thoughts. But I'm controlling anything. It's really just my intention, you know, and moving into the reality that corresponds to those thoughts. And what you have done through your journey, you know, you said you came back for your wife and your son, but I feel that you came back for all of us because you are anchoring a reality that can reach me and invite me into that too, you know, and that that I can be thankful for the way of thinking that your experience communicates to me. Yeah. Like, I'm glad I didn't have to go through this. But yeah, it's like a gift to be able to, you know, because there's something about the collective that once somebody has the experience and especially since you might know them or feel like you know them or, you know, through social media or whatnot, you all of a sudden like, oh, wow, somebody I know went through this is the, you know, and they're describing it and telling you, you know, from their point of view, it makes you that much closer to it. But also the way I understand the way we're all connected, that somehow they're connected to that experience deeply on the other side, like they have access to it, like, oh my God, yes. I'm glad I didn't have to go through that. One of the first things one of my friends is my friend, Chris, when I started taking visitors and phone calls, only saw a few people and one of them had a phone and they talked to my friend, Chris, an artist. And that's the very first thing he said. He said, thank you for going through this for us, which was a really strange thing at the time. And that didn't understand what he meant. I do now. And he's a real spiritual guy. But just what a strange thing for him to say to me, here it is, I'm still paralyzed in a hospital bed. He's just like, you know, thank you for going through this for us. I was just like, wow, but now I totally get it. Like it woke everybody up to this idea. And you know, so many people died during this time. A lot of them died right around me alone and afraid and all these types of things. And it doesn't have to be like this. You know, just being able to give any insight, you know, is good. And like, yeah, I feel a little funny talking about it because, you know, Washington, anybody listening to me, all I'm saying is, hey, this is, this is what happened. This is what I came back with. Yeah. I, you know, I'm forever changed. People should listen to you because you're talking the truth. That's why they should listen to you. It's just that simple. Yeah. And I mean, hopefully, if, you know, I know for my friends and people that have known me, I mean, they obviously see it. They also saw the tenacity it took for Maria and I to get through it. I think that story in itself, just the human experiences is badass enough for the community around here that saw me learn to walk on these streets. It was so hard. And they would, you know, it was probably hard to look at me. And now I'm walking up and down the street and they're waving to me. And I know that they saw it. And they're like, damn, that's what it's like to learn to walk again. Yeah, it sucked. And, you know, I did it out in the open in front of all these people. And she put it on social media and you know, like, you're just like, wow, you know, you can recover from these things. So just on that note alone, it's good for people. And then this whole near death thing is just next level. I don't expect it's going to reach everybody. I think it's something you have to be ready for. You have to be in a space where you're searching for answers. A lot of people aren't going to want to hear it. And that's okay. But it was as real as it could possibly be. A lot of people ask me if they, did you see Jesus? I'm like, it's not really like that. It's way more than us. You know, I'm getting all kind of weird things. And, you know, I can't even hardly go anywhere without people asking me about it. But I'm just going to, just, I'm an open book. I have nothing to hide. So I just, I just tell people what's there. They can take it or leave it. Thank you. I wonder if we have a few more people here. Does anyone else feel strongly moved to like, bring another question into the space or anything? I'm bouncing off of what you, I wonder, and this might be like a tiny sliver of it, but it is a really interesting question. What is, so like, for example, the case you described about the guy you said you don't believe him, the lady, is it possible in your mind that he, like, he is just a psychopath that he literally means that? Like, he really enjoys that. And then would that be like a lack of awareness? Like, I guess I would want to hear from both of you. Oh, he does enjoy it. That's not the question. But there is, so just for the sake of the audio, I'll just repeat, like, right. The question, like, you know, that psychopath who I, you know, I said I didn't, I don't actually believe him. You know, it's not that I think that he doesn't enjoy it. He does enjoy it. It's just that the fact that he was bragging about it, like, it made me feel like there's something underneath that, that maybe he was dormant, but that maybe is coming ripe now. Because the soul is not limited to just that. That is not a fit and permanent abode, that life that he's living of domination and cruelty and cynicism. It's not a fit, permanent abode for the soul. So when that journey into that depth of separation is complete, there will be a homecoming. And sometimes you or I or any of us might be in the, that special sacred crossroads to make an invitation to another way. Because there is a choice, you know, at some point on that journey, you come to a fork in the road and you can choose whether to continue on the path you've been on or to take a different path. And so if you appear at the crossroads and you are able to see that part of him that wants a different life, then by seeing it and speaking to it, you can invite the choice. You can't make the choice for the person, but you can create conditions where they will take that choice because you know them. It's like, I know you. I know you. This is who you are. And it's like what Drew is saying, this is not a solo adventure. And the prayers that sustained him in his journey, another dimension of that is the stories that we hold of other people and the way that we see other people. That is like our, and that's why transcending judgment is so important these days and transcending hate because hate and judgment are basically a story that says you're not going to change. You're just despicable. You're just this. You're just that. By holding those negative thoughts that Drew was talking about, we're actually maintaining a reality in which people like that do not change. We're holding them away from the possibility of change. So yeah, I hope that. Right, but you have to actually see that. It can't just be a spiritual ideology. You have to actually see the part of them. You have to see their true nature. You have to see like their deepest, you know, maybe even beyond this lifetime, the nature of their soul. And when you see that, then you can hold authentically the invitation. You have to actually have actually have seen it though. And it's another reason why what you're bringing Drew is so important because you're bringing a direct experience of something. Yeah. It's so big when I look at it now, you know, when I look at my life and how I've lived my life and, you know, we all make mistakes and we all have done things you're not proud of and stuff. But in general, you know, my own personal life has been built upon good intentions. It's been built on purpose, like the purpose that I felt that I had towards, you know, my family and community and my wife and my son and, you know, everything I did was I always wanted to be a positive on things. I wanted to help. And that to me was admirable. Like you don't have to save the world. You just don't be a negative on it. And now that I've had this experience, I realized that the way I lived my life the whole time, that's why so much came back to me because in one way or another, I affected all these people, all these people that gave me energy gave it to me because I did something for them at one time or another. And that could have been just being kind or they liked my art or, you know, I was nice to their kid. You know, like I had so many people, you know, contact me saying like, you know, you have no idea, but you know, my kid was going through a bad time and you were nice to him and he changed. I mean, that's cool stuff. And so I think people, especially people in power that are, you know, become, you know, greedy and narcissist, I always think of because you get so separated from others that you feel like, you know, you could do anything you want. And you really, you can, but not without consequences. And they're, What are those consequences for you? Well, the consequences are this, you seem to attract other people like that to your life. And are those people really, do they really like you or are they just there because you have money and you can do something for them? I mean, you see it in LA all the time. Everybody's about who they know. I'm friends with so-and-so. They're like, that's supposed to mean something. You know, and then, you know, if you hang around those people long enough, you're like, well, all those people are assholes. Why do you hang out with them? You know, like it's like the craziest thing. Will they pray for each other when one of them is going through? Will they? Yeah. Or they look at it like, okay, there's less competition or something. You know, I don't know, but I just know that this way of being in this sense of purpose is contagious. It's like a vibration. And if you vibrate a certain way, similar types of vibration come to you and want to be coherent with you, it's like a wave building, you know, and it's powerful. Now, the same thing can be for the darkness, but it's not the same kind of wave. It's not a helpful way. It's the difference between creation and destruction. Now, it's the same thing, but it's just like a, it causes a different outcome. You know, it doesn't feel good. You know, it wouldn't feel good after I worked on that painting for so long and then some guy just come over and cut it with a knife. Now, it's really easy for him to do. It might make him feel powerful, but it's nothing compared to the amount of energy that I put into it and the amount of joy that it gave people and the amount of intrigue in their mind of the concept of what that stands for, what that does, you know. So, so many things they're powerful because they have money or they have a gun or let's say they're good looking and things come easier to them. All these types of things are really not real. Yeah. Yeah. Because you were already on a pretty positive path in your life, like at least aiming for like trying to be kind and good and create outcome and all that stuff. What would you say is the most salient change that you feel for you up there? Is it just how real that is for you? The biggest change I'm noticing is my lack of ambition for myself. Like before, you know, I was always striving to be the best person I could be and in whatever I set out to do. Now, I'm still like that. I want to be the best husband. I can be the best father and that type of thing, but like I have no desire to try so hard and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm content just being and content, just experiencing. Like I just, I'm looking at everything, it's like, oh, you know, this is amazing and in some ways it's boring. It's like, you know, like, gosh, you know, like, what am I going to do now? Well, if I could say what I noticed is different about you is you've always, you've always been a great husband and a great friend and all that. And you always had a bit of a temper and that temper has disappeared. And I remember that temper from 1996 when I first met you, I remember thinking, oh, he's so perfect except for that little, little fuse that goes awful every now and again. And man, that's like gone. Like you were always on edge. I was always ready to fight for stuff. And that was due to the fact that yeah, just that in my past that, you know, you can only get stepped on so many times before you start fighting back. And so I'll allow myself to get stepped on quite a bit. But at some point, I'm just like, okay, this has got to stop. Like be a super nice guy until it's time not to be. And you're just like, all right, I don't know what you thought was going to happen, but you know, this is going to stop now. And I didn't like that about myself because it was like went from zero to like 100. It wasn't like zero to two to three to four to five. It didn't go like that. It was like I endured and endured and endured. And then you know, somebody would, you know, like guys like fighting stuff. And you know, it would go from like, no, everything's cool. Everything's cool. I'm going to beat your head in with a rock until you're dead. And like, you know, that doesn't go over so well. And, you know, it's just like a little disagreement. But it's, yeah, I hated that about myself. And it's gone. It's, and I think that might be left over from lifetimes of, you know, kind of what we're talking about is a negative vibration that I endured. And I think once you set out on that path, that vibration stays with you. This energy, you know, you're either one vibration or the other. And so if you have that vibration, you might be more predisposed for suffering when you come into life. And that's the reason why you would not want to choose that. It's an illusion. And it's hard to get out of it. I feel like I had been that for a long time in my life, not just this life of like, or ancient, like super old. Like, we've been everything. And the darkness, that vibration, it's hard to get rid of. And you suffer tremendously. And when you're finally free of it, you're never going to go back there again. And you feel bad for anybody who's there, as you know, that it's, it's not pleasant. It might be the inspiration of heaven and hell. It's very simple. It's like an incoherent vibration versus a coherent vibration. We're creation machines. We're meant to work together, not destroy things, not destroy each other. I mean, how can you, you know, destroy like amazing things? I mean, we build amazing things. But in order to build them, we destroy stuff. So it's like this conundrum, you know, what's better, you know, a field of flowers or a parking lot. It's like, okay, I would rather have the field of flowers, but we need places to park these cars. You know, and they're just like, but then you look out in the world and you like see cars everywhere. Like what a blight. Like I don't think people even realize like, okay, we got power. Now look out this window and all you see is cars and power lines. What a blight on the, on the the earth. Now it might have sounded like a good idea, but now that we got it all, so it's like, okay, how do you get rid of it? You're like, I don't know. Do you have, have you had any insights into that question through your experience? How do we get rid of it? How do we build a world based on beauty rather than efficiency? I think they used to do a much better job than they do now. I just remember being in school, in high school. My high school was like one of the worst schools in the country, imagine, rural South Carolina, it was pretty bad. And there wasn't anything nice about it. Nothing. Like why do they make schools look like prisons? Yeah. Well, they make them like something you can't wait to get to. Like with beautiful flowers and trees and art and sculptures and fountains. And maybe they say, well, the kids won't appreciate it. I disagree. I mean, build something where kids can't wait to get up and go to school. Yeah, there are such places. There are such places. I remember I went to Stanford University to get a look at that school for my son. And I was just like, oh my God, can you imagine going to school in this place? I wonder, such smart people come out of there. What was it, Furman University? We're there. I was walking around. I was just like, man, all these rich kids have it made. They probably don't appreciate it. I was like, man, this is great. I just had to walk around this campus and go to classes and get good grades. And yeah, so I mean, there's places, people that are conscious of it, but in general, maybe not so much. I like to sit around with plants and energy, like raw things, fire, water, all these natural things. There's a reason we feel better in nature. I mean, we like to hike and get out in the middle of nowhere. God just feels amazing. I think it's alright like our true state. Not gonna go crazy when we go to New York City. The energy's different. Some of the old buildings there, though, are really beautiful. Yeah. Like Grand Central Station. Yeah. Apparently Penn Station used to be even more beautiful before they tore it down and put something efficient in there instead. Yeah. But these buildings show us that it's not just nature that the human realm can be an extension and an expansion of natural beauty. Yeah. Absolutely. You look at some of the like old photos of like some of the World's Fair and things. Yeah. And the amazing things that they built in, you know, where was I? I was in the airport in Singapore, and they got this giant forest inside the airport. And you're like, you can't even believe you're inside. You're like, you know, how come we're not building stuff like this? You know, you start traveling around the world and you realize you thought the United States was cutting edge. And then you realize like, oh man, all our stuff is old and degraded. That was a harsh part as well. Drew, I want to want to wrap it up. Yeah. In a few minutes, but I wanted if there's anything like that you feel that you really, like you haven't said, and you would just like, what would you like people to know from your direct experience right now if there's anything more? Well, I think I mean, at the basic of it is, you know, strive from this moment forward to change your vibration, to control your thoughts, you know, be aware of the type of people you hang out with and try to be the best husband, wife, brother, father, friend, everything, all those things to as many people as possible. Are you being put in your best self forward? You never know when somebody else is having the worst day of their life or having some crazy thought that just your simple act of kindness could change that trajectory, you know, try to live a life with purpose, a life that's worth living. So when you find yourself in a situation like I did that you have a purpose and a reason to stay. I think a lot of people arrive at that place and say, you know, my life sucks anyway, why not go? And the other place is fantastic. It's like going home. But you came here for a reason. You're born in this world to do something. And if all that is is to help others, so be it. You know, just really strive for that. It'll be over soon enough. So while you're here, do the best you possibly can. That's it. Thank you. That's so beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Life is good. It really is. It is. Life is good. It is. See ya. Yeah. Thanks everybody.