 Hello, and welcome to Stand the Energy Man. I'm Stan Osterman from the Hawaii Center for Advanced Transportation Technologies here on Think Tech Hawaii. And today's show focuses on one of my favorite forms of transportation. And for once, it's not just all about hydrogen or fuel cells. In fact, I've used this form of transportation virtually my whole life. And like many folks, I enjoy it a lot, particularly here in Hawaii. Like all technologies, this technology is improving every day. And in many cases, the technology is outpacing the infrastructure and the business models that defy conventional logic. We'll be talking all about bikes, and not just the concept of bike chair, but more specifically e-bikes and the potential to help Hawaii meet its clean energy goals and clean transportation goals. And oh, by the way, keep all of us in better physical condition as well here in Hawaii. We've got to get, as a guest today, the owner of Ridesmart Maui. And he's combined the efforts of two baby booners, Lee Chamberlain, and was a former military pilot and retired civil service worker with his wife, Saman. And she's a seasoned entrepreneur from the Bay Area. And they fell in love with Maui 15 years ago and moved over here. So they've been in business on Maui, and their business is electric bikes. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce Mr. Lee Chamberlain. And Lee, thanks for being on the show with us. I really appreciate it. Well, likewise, Sam. It's an honor to be here, and thank you very much for inviting me. Sure. Hey, tell us a little bit about how you and your wife got started in doing what you're doing and, you know, kind of your background that led you to where you're at right now. Well, I'm 68 years old now, so I got a long background, I guess. But just a quick summary is that I grew up on a farm, and I got introduced to aviation when I joined the military in the National Guard and got an interest in aviation. And then I progressed into becoming a helicopter pilot in the Army. And I served in active duty in the Army for a period of time. And then I got out and flew commercially offshore as well as did some seismic work in the mountains, exploring for oil, using long-line techniques in the helicopter as a transport vehicle and a device to go ahead and move people as well as equipment in the remote accesses of the Rocky Mountains. And then I ended up thinking that I needed to go back into civil service, and so I ended up going to work or getting employed by the Drug Enforcement Administration back in 83. And I became a special agent with DEA and spent several years doing that. And then I transitioned over to the U.S. Customs Service at that time. And I went into the aviation patrol business along the southern border of New Mexico and Arizona and that. And so I flew patrol or craft, looking for drug traffickers penetrating the border. And I did that for several years, and then I transitioned back into the Drug Enforcement Administration. I became a special agent pilot with DEA, and then I spent my career pretty much going and supporting missions around agents, missions in Central America, South America, and in the United States. And then after I retired from that, I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to go to work for Blackwater. I flew for Blackwater helicopters in Iraq for a little while. And then transitioned over to another company, and we did aerial surveillance, recon intelligence gathering. And that company was L3, and then after that I started riding motorcycles. I got interested in venture motorcycle riding, and that concept is where we go ahead and take a heavy BMW, GS, dual sport bike, and we ride across the country and carry everything on the bike and live off the bike. And there's seen real interesting to me, and I did it for a couple of years, but I had some unfortunate mishaps. The last mishap I ended up shattering my left collarbone, broke my shoulder blade, broke seven ribs, punctured my lung. And then the year before that, same month, I did my right side and broke my collarbone there. But anyway, the last since in the hospital, my wife came in and said, hey, you got to quit this stuff. You know, it's not going to continue to be able to continue doing this. And so I was laying around recovering thinking to myself, now what I'm going to do now, shoot, maybe I'll start riding bicycles, that sounds like a good idea. So then I thought to myself that my wife can't keep up with me on a bicycle, and then I heard about these electric bikes, and went down to San Francisco, took her with me, and we went to a shop specializing in electric bikes. And then I had her try one out, and San Francisco is the perfect spot for electric bikes because of the hills and everything. So she got on one of the electric bikes, and she rode up the hill and came back and had a big smile on her face like everybody does, and I finished riding an electric bike. And I said, what did you think? And she says, well, I think they're awesome. And I said, OK, well, if I buy that bike for you, will you ride electric or ride bikes with me? And she goes, yeah. But you need one too. And I said, nah, I don't need an electric bike. She goes, oh yeah, you do. You need to try one out. So I said, OK, tried it out, indeed sold on out too. And so I bought two bikes that day. And then I have a number of motorcycles in my garage. And anyway, I started to realize that I was spending more time riding my electric bike to my short distances, whether it be the gym or store and so on and so forth. I'd prefer that over up in our motorcycle. And so we have a house here in Hawaii. And I got to thinking that, man, you know, I started, first of all, I started missing my electric bike because these bikes were in California. Anyway, I started missing my electric bike. And I got to thinking, geez, maybe I should get electric bike here. And so I ended up getting a tandem that we converted into electric. And my wife and I, we would ride from the house that we have up here in Conor Ridge on the West Side in Maui down to the store. And we'd load up the panniers on a tandem bicycle with pineapple, a pie, a gallon of milk. And we had backpacks. And we still climbed the hill together on that tandem at 15, 12, 15 miles an hour. And I got to thinking, geez, you know, what a great thing this could be. I mean, we could reduce the footprint of the automobile here on the Hawaiian Islands, this is the perfect place for the electric battery, you know, it would just be such a much healthier, cleaner way of life here. And so I ended up starting Ride Smart Maui with that concept. And we moved into, we went ahead and became pedagogal dealers. And we've been in business since about 2015, I guess, now. And since then, we've come to realize that we have a challenge with infrastructure. And we started the Maui Bicycling League after having attended a seminar on Oahu that was put on by Hawaii Bicycling League. And we've been advocating for bicycle production pathways for about four years now. And that's kind of where it is. OK. Well, I actually learned an awful lot by you going through that introduction on air versus talking to you a couple of times. And the first thing I realized is that you're an adrenaline junkie that made it to age 68, which is a real accomplishment. Because all the guys I know that have motorcycles have usually given them up way long before you did, because they broke every bone in their body, doing the same kind of stuff that you did. And I love motorcycles, but I've held off trying to buy one, because I know I'd probably break every bone in my body and be in the hospital for months at a time. But you're all sort of smart enough to listen to your wife when she gives you good advice. And it seems like that seemed to have gotten you to where you're at today. And I had a great epiphany while you were talking there, especially at the end. You know, at one point in time, they were trying to put together a race to the sun with electric vehicles to the top of Haleakala. Now, I know people go to Haleakala and ride the bikes downhill. Have you guys ever tried to get an electric bike all the way up Haleakala? I haven't tried it. I know that we were going to do that on a couple of different occasions. But it's not really a problem to do. Really? No, it wouldn't be much of an issue. I mean, we've got the capacities with the batteries we have now and the type of bikes that are available and the motors and so on and so forth. That would be an easy accomplishment. And so it's not a great challenge, I don't think, in that regards. Wow. You had to work with your bicycle companies that you work with that you sell. And maybe with the Maui Business Economic Development Board or Chamber of Commerce or something and see if you can sponsor a race to the sun on Haleakala with electric bikes and see what kind of participation you get. I think that would be really cool. Yeah, that has been thought of in the past. And there was an individual that did ride to the top of the mountain some years back and did make that accomplishment. And so that's been done before. But a race to the top via the different electric bikes. That's kind of a cool concept. Yeah, I think it'd be like that idea. Yeah, you could probably get a lot of colorado. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm good friends with Frank DiRego and that Maui Economic Development Board so we could certainly probably make that happen. OK, I'll be watching for that one. So what are some of the technical things about these bikes that make them different from a mountain bike or, you know, I mean, like in suspension and like how long does the battery battery last? Generally speaking, how many miles can you go? How big a person can go on a bike? You know, I mean, the other weight limits or, you know, give us an idea of the technical side. You have to realize that there's all kinds of different configurations of bicycles, period. And all we're doing is taking those all of different configurations where they where they be beach cruisers, mountain bikes, urban bikes, commuter bikes, cargo bikes, all these different configurations of bikes. All we're doing is adding electric power assist to those bikes. OK, and the weight capacities vary depending upon the individual design of the bikes. And of course, everything has the nomination associated with it, right? So obviously, you can create anything for enough money. But again, the cost of the bikes comparatively, that's always a big issue with people that comes to talking about electric bikes. Oh, they're so expensive, but, you know, they're not really. I mean, for the true bicyclist, the guy is the bicyclist. The guys who are spending money on a carbon fiber bike with titanium rims don't think your bikes are too expensive, I bet. Not at all. No. I mean, I know people that have got 10, 12, 14, $15,000 road bike. Exactly. One specialty at all. At all. That's just one specialized purpose. And that's riding down the road where I try to keep our electric bikes. You've got a good variety of bikes in the city from $1,500 to $3,000 that cover all those different things that we just talked about and can do a phenomenal amount of different things but the thing about bicycling is that we have there's a different class of riders. OK, and so the spandex class A type rider is different from the type of riders that would ride e-bikes primarily. OK, so the e-bike is more of a utility vehicle. It is a vehicle that would serve the purpose of replacing the car. And completing those short trips to the store and doing those type of things, reducing the footprint and the cost associated with the automobile in a household. And that's the type of customer that I try to reach out to. So it's everybody outside of that spandex type rider, OK, which is a different type of person. They're purists and they're doing it for one particular purpose and that's for exercise and the communion that they get with the other riders that they ride with. It's a different type of purpose in that aspect. Well, I'm in your category and the guy that I work with is in the spandex category. So I get it completely. He's got a bike that I couldn't afford without getting a mortgage. And I've got a bike. In fact, I just took it into the store to have him rebuild it or not rebuild it, but just do a tune up and it cost me like 200 bucks. But this bike is 25 years old and it's a mountain bike. But I use it to kind of just honk around town here. Like I came to the studio riding it today and it's not super fast, but it's light and it's maneuverable and it's right. And I love it. And and even though I have another mountain bike that I've been using, I like the old one better. But I tell you what, Lee, we're right about midpoint. So I'm going to break here for a commercial and we'll be right back to talk to you some more about this stuff. Talk to you in a few. OK. Aloha, I'm Kili Ikeena and I'm here every other week on Mondays at two o'clock p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii's Hawaii Together. In Hawaii Together, we talk with some of the most fascinating people in the islands about working together, working together for a better economy, government and society. So I invite you into our conversation every other Monday at 2 p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. Join us for Hawaii Together. I'm Kili Ikeena. Aloha. Aloha, I'm Dave Stevens, host of the Cyber Underground. This is where we discuss everything that relates to computers that just kind of scare you out of your mind. So come join us every week here on ThinkTechHawaii.com, 1 p.m. on Friday afternoons. And then you can go see all our episodes on YouTube. Just look up the Cyber Underground on YouTube. All our shows will show up and please follow us. We're always giving you current, relevant information to protect you. Keepin' you safe. Aloha. Hey, Aloha, and welcome back to Stand the Energy Man on My Lunch Hour. And we're talking to Lee on Maui, who runs Bikeshare Maui. Bikeshare, is that right? Bikeshare Maui, rideshare. No, ridesmart. Ridesmart Maui. We haven't gotten to the bikeshare yet. I've got Biki on the mind because we're trying to get them on the back of the show here, too. But so we're going to keep talking a little bit about the technical side. So you cater to the more utilitarian bikes rather than the high-speed road bikes and the racing bikes and stuff, and they come in all different sizes and shapes. I know that from the beach bikes, to really heavy-duty stuff, to delivery bikes, to people that just want to cruise around with a single gear and goose neck handlebars. So can you take any of these bikes and electrify them? Or do you work with companies that kind of have different model electric bikes in all those categories? What works best? Yeah, I represent a number of different manufacturers that specialize in electric bikes. Raleigh, Turn, Emotion, EcoMotion, Magnum. There's a lot of different companies I represent. And I have a number of different bikes here. I have a rental fleet of electric bikes, and then I have a collection of different bikes that I try to... I think that would probably meet everybody's needs one way or the other, OK? So I'm very fascinated by the cargo bikes, and I have the extra cycle, and I'm in a position to carry the Turn bike, which is the Turn GSD. If the viewers want to look at a really great video on the interesting concept, Turn did a really good job in presenting that particular model, which I got introduced to out the inner bike in Las Vegas last year. But I think it's an awesome bike. It folds. It can go into the back of an SUV slide in there. It stores vertically. It'll carry 450 pounds. It'll go 100 miles. You can put... It's a very versatile bike. It's a cargo bike, so you can carry a couple of your children on it. You can pull stuff with it. You can carry cargo and you go touring with it. It's an extremely versatile bike, but that's the type of thing that I think would do well and people recognize and substituting their car's needs with that particular bike. Do you have any images of these bikes on your website at all? Yes. As a matter of fact, we have drop-downs on our websites, and you go to rentals and sales, and there's going to be drop-downs relative to a number of different manufacturers. Certain number of bikes. We don't have all the bikes from all the manufacturers on there, obviously, but we have selected ones that are popular among most people. Okay. What's your website, by the way, because we didn't capture it to throw it on the screen, but if you just give it a shout out... Yeah. It's Ride Smart Maui. Okay. So folks can come and look at that and look at them. I'm actually kind of interested in that. Like I told you off-air that I'm looking at doing some time on the Big Island, and I'm probably going to be about 30 miles from Kona town proper, and a little bit of a hill there, so I'm going to have a little bit of hill time. So it's got an average flat range of 100 miles. I should be able to do 30 miles with a pretty good hill on the front end. Do you have regenerative braking like electric vehicles do on these bikes, where it charges the battery when you're going downhill or putting the brakes on? Some of those bikes that I tried out, and they're not a very popular on the bike. And the recent being is you don't have the weight to generate the current necessary to charge the battery. You don't have the distances. Like when you brake a, well, as a matter of fact, you don't even use a brake and a Tesla. When you drive a Tesla, you just let off on the accelerator, and then she goes automatically into the regen, which basically uses the same as a brake. So barely ever touched the actual brake and a Tesla. And so that works out efficiently because you've got 6,000 pounds that you're basically decelerating. No, we do, in our shop, we do hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, and they all have regenerative braking as well. So that's interesting, though, that on the bicycles, it doesn't make as much sense, but that makes what your explanation tells us exactly why. That's great. But I'm looking at those cargo bikes. I'm going to actually go back and look on your website and check these out, because I love riding my bike, and the drawback primarily is that I've got a little pad on the back to strap a few things down, or I've got to have a backpack on the gear. That puts your center of gravity kind of high. So it'd be nice to have something that carries the cargo right to be on a bike. Yeah, well, I have an extra cycle also that carries three kids on the back and has a drop-down side car that'll carry 250 pounds and carry 450 pounds by itself. So that's a lot of weight that you can move. And with the power assist, it'll travel at 28 miles an hour. So that's very efficient. Well, this is probably a good place to transition then into infrastructure, because I know that on Oahu here, the county is trying hard to improve bike lanes. We've got some new bike lanes on King Street and South Street and in town. They're working on it. But when you live out in the suburbs or live in rural areas, one of my friends used to be a lifeguard, and he and his wife would ride their bikes from Kailua to Makapu Point. If you're familiar with that, on Oahu. And it doesn't have much of a shoulder, let alone a bike lane. And one semi-tractor trailer going by can wipe you all over the pavement because of the draft and the wind and everything. So when you're using these bikes on Maui, how are they doing with letting you mix with traffic and really being able to do what you said, and that is get cars off the road and use bikes for some of these trips. Is there enough of a shoulder that you have the ability to ride comfortably? Or are we all facing the same challenges where the bike lane is defined as a place where all the broken glass and metal from cars gets pushed to? Yeah, that's a primary problem, exactly. Again, when I think of the shoulders and people riding on the shoulders, I don't think of the normal average person on e-bike all the time. I always flash to the spandex rider on the shoulders, you know, riding the shoulders and all that. So again, infrastructure is key. I always say, I go back to the theory of what came first, the chicken or the egg, right? So if we had the proper infrastructure, then people would ride more. I talked to someone yesterday and they told me that they won't let their children ride on the bikes because the fact that it's too unsafe. So I look at potentially trying to incorporate in the urban areas that where people live, the ability for families to go ahead and give their kids some independence like Stan, you and I probably had when we grew up, right? I mean, I wasn't restricted about where I could go, but everybody's paranoid now because the danger is associated with what the automobile imposes for people to go ahead and let their kids ride on bikes by themselves, right? So again, if we start developing the culture and it is a cultural shift because Hawaii is very much an automobile culture here. And all the rules associated with the automobile are imposed upon the islands here, which really doesn't necessarily equate to the same as it would be on the mainland relative to urban sprawl and supporting the urban sprawl concept. And so again, infrastructure is key. And so not necessarily the shoulders of the highways, but inside the towns and creating protected bikeways and creating ways for kids to commute back and forth from home to school and those kind of things. That's the kind of thing that I think is important. Well, we'll have to get you back on the show, maybe with your wife and have the folks from Kauai come on the show and talk about what Kauai is doing around Lihui to make it more bike-friendly in the town area and maybe get some of our legislators to actually look at bike paths in other states or like you and I talked about around Washington, D.C., where we both spent some time. Some of the bike trails around the Virginia, D.C. area are just, I mean, you want to go out and ride. They're so nice. Absolutely, you know, and we do have the Hawaii bike plan. And my wife heads up, Samon heads up the Maui Bicycling League here as the president. And so we advocate for bicycle pedestrian pathways. And we also take and refer to the Hawaii bike plan and everything that we do. The unfortunate thing is that the Hawaii bike plan has been in place of state-wide plan that's regionalized. The focus has been forgotten in regards to supporting that document. And I'll give you an example of here on the west side of Maui, which I consider kind of an island on island. We have the West Maui Greenway that was supposedly already one project in the 90s to be completed within 10 years. It was all laid out. And it was the area that runs parallel to the Hanapalani Highway, we call the Cane Hall Road, that runs from the Polly all the way to Lapland Point. That was supposed to be completed years ago, but there hasn't been one thing done up to now. And that's an unfortunate thing. And so now the purpose of that was to offset the possibilities of traffic congestion that the planners saw coming years ago. They figured that we could have people riding bikes instead of driving cars everywhere. Well, let me make a suggestion to you that I think we ought to try and do on all the islands and all the counties. We just said all the mayors get together and talk about how important clean transportation is and how they all promise to have their fleet vehicles green by 2035 or so. Maybe we need to put that back on the table with them instead of just referring back to that bike plan by the state and go back to the counties and say, Mr. Mayor and the City Council, you guys thought about this, the state thought about it a long time ago, and you just recently committed to clean transportation. That's what this is all about. Getting people out of their cars and on to other modes of transportation. And there's no more efficient transportation than a bicycle. And there's probably no more convenient and efficient transportation than an electric bicycle. So how about it? Let's start working on this plan. And you know, I work with the legislators here in Honolulu a lot. And I can tell you they're open and they're listening and they want to do stuff. Sometimes the fiscal constraints they have curtail their ability to really do much, but you just got to keep plugging away at it. So I would say get your bike league to start a campaign and have everybody just jot a note to their city councilman and their state reps. And let's get some focus back on this stuff because I agree with you. I'm a bike guy and everything you've said today makes just a ton of sense. And here on Oahu, we don't have much available land to do a whole lot of greenways on. But I'd say on Maui and Big Island and Kauai and Molokai and Lanai, it's not a factor. There's a space to do it and do it properly. And we ought to be encouraging our leadership, our legislators to do that stuff. So hey, Lee, I want to thank you a lot for being on the show today. And I promise we're going to have to have you back on in a couple of months for an update and maybe get some feedback from your city council and legislators on how they want to help you get more space to ride bikes on. But thanks for being on the show today. I appreciate it. Pleasure, Stan. And we'll look forward to another opportunity. Great. All right. Let's going to wrap it up for Stan Energyman this Friday. This is Aloha Friday. And have a great weekend. We'll see you back next week on Think Tech Hawaii. Aloha.