 Hi, welcome everybody to another invited talk from the Hyperledger and Media Entertainment Special Interest Group. For those of you who are new, much as the name of the group suggests, we're looking at the possible benefits for both the worlds of media and entertainment through the Hyperledger blockchain platform. And today, speaking directly to these issues are three guests who are all part and parcel of Verizon's Full Transparency Initiative. More specifically, that's Jason Small and Dante Pichella directly from Verizon and joining them is Hunter-Pent Prendagrat, Prenda Garst, I beg your pardon, from Madhive. So those guys together will give us an introduction to their collaborative work and perhaps even to the broader initiative of Citizen Verizon, which is a very, very wide ranging socio-economic and civic initiative with a global reach. So thank you very much to all three of you for coming. Thank you equally to everybody who's joining us today, either for the first time or for a repeat visit and you guys it's over to you. Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here. I'm Jason Small. We'll get to introductions individually as we go along. So Dante and Hunter will be presenting at different points in this presentation, but I'm going to go ahead and kick it off here by sharing my screen. So great to be speaking with you folks. I'm Jason Small. I sit in corporate communications at Verizon and I'm extraordinarily lucky to be part of this initiative. It's not often a brand does something like this. Just a little bit of background. So I'm going to set up the why we did this and a little bit of the what it is. And then Hunter will go into the how it works and Dante will follow up with some other great things that we haven't even actually shared in the past that I think you guys will be interested to learn about what Verizon is doing. So my role in this about 18 months ago as a corporate communications professional and our team within Verizon, we wanted to figure out how to embody the brand purpose, which is to be innovative and trustworthy. And so we wanted to do something different with our communications. And when we looked at the landscape a year and a half ago and the options with technology, we looked at eight different options. And the one that we're going to share with you today based on blockchain led the pack for a lot of good reasons. So just a little bit of the setup here in the context within which we made this decision. What you're looking at right here is a scatter plot of bad state actors and the the red areas on here are actually the hashtags that they're creating the conversations and topics they're creating. Now, this bird's eye view of these six bad state actors shows the prowess and social media of how they can conduct themselves and operate so that they can generate the narrative that benefits them. The scary part about this and how it's evolved and many of you may already know this is that they've now gotten a lot more sophisticated. And to the point where they can hack a CMS publish a new story on a legitimate website and before it's taken down amplified and social using their prowess. That's scary for a lot of reasons. You can obviously tell how fast true excuse me how fast fake news travels than truth based on the stat you see here. And this threat keeps evolving so it's harder to chase these down the way they did exist in social and now that it's even more sophisticated and it looks like it's coming from a credible source. It's even more scary. I'll also add to that that we this is an evolving threat so as you could see in the center here this is a recent news story in early March. So evolving from a let's say a news organization a media entity into the brand space. It gets a lot more scary in terms of how it could impact stock price so it's an elevated sense of threat here and it continues to increase. We as a brand aren't positioning our solution as the as the solution for all of this in fact I'm just setting the stage for how the veracity of content is under assault. And this is one step towards how we can get back to a more trustworthy and transparent way of communicating to society at general. We as a company want to help try to fix this at a societal level not just selfishly in terms of what's in it for our brand. And so we've built what we're going to share with you in an open source manner to get to that. We we want to create something that can be used to better society to better society at large not just our brand itself. We set out to create a new standard in trust and transparency to be clear our primary objective for this was for brand reputation and that means how how many other brands and media entities can we get to participate in what it is we created and set aside any revenue or product opportunities here because that what this is coming from the corporate communications group now obviously there are there are some profitable directions we could take this. And so we've been working with the right folks we've had a lot of inbound interest after we launched this and we're working with other third parties to discuss how this could evolve in a way that solves for all not just what we're trying to do so the solution that I'm sharing with you is it just for brands it could also be for media entities and you'll you'll see how it works in just a minute here but just a little bit more on the background of what it took to get here so I think we had eight ideas as I shared we had to do a lot of discovery to find the right partners to work with massive documentation for a brand like Verizon to undertake something like this from a risk and compliance level, incorporating all of the stakeholders, the security checks that we need the privacy impact assessments and all of those things. And I'm happy to say we stuck with it. And it takes a really solid set of leadership and a culture to be able to do this and I'm proud to say I work in a place where we did. So we launched this back in October. As a result, through the end of last year, we had attention from Forbes and lots of other, lots of other parties and news amplification I think it was over 100 different news stories that were generated. We were proud of that, but we're not done. And so, one of the reasons we're here today to share this all with you is to keep getting this message out there. The stakeholders that we had to engage to get this right some of the smartest folks within Verizon. I'm fortunate I've been working with Dante Pichella who's on this call for 18 months now on this project and have the right guidance inside the business to help make this happen. And as well we partnered with Matt Hive, and that's Hunter Prenda Gast who will present shortly here on the blockchain piece of this. But going back to the big picture here. The goal here is what if society had a new indicator for trust. So just like we see HTTPS and you know there's a certificate there to provide a secure transaction. And if you're looking at a social media profile, we need trust indicators so that you know that this is a confirmed profile for a specific celebrity or public figure. What if we could do that for content. So we created full transparency to try to get us there. And it has this is version one by the way and it's just on our website. I'll cover the pieces of content that that we apply it to. But for for other third parties it could apply to corporate newsrooms at other major brands or to media entities as I shared earlier. So how does it work. This is for official news releases only we don't track other dot com pages we don't track articles that are not official news releases. We wanted to put a stake in the ground to say when we make an announcement, if we change it, we are now forced to be transparent because of the nature of this technology, and you can go and verify that. So we don't track images, videos and certain other. I would say immaterial markup, but significant changes to copy and headlines, all of that is tracked. So as you see here we change the headline, and we track that and showcase it in the version history of the news release and I'll show you how that works in just a moment. To summarize how our time stamping works in the way in which we push this information to blockchain. Our time stamps are generated every time someone goes into our publishing system which is Drupal and clicks publish. So it could be 10 changes in one single publication excuse me in one single push. And that gives it one time stamp and then you'll see 10 pieces marked up within the news release, or if we did those 10 changes and publish them all individually, you would see 10 time stamp on on the right hand rail which I'll show you in just a moment. We also do these in an efficient way in terms of how our team works so in corporate communications and news releases, when we publish a release, we know that most of the changes will occur statistically within the first two hours. We still surface 100% of those changes, we just put them into a more friendly user interface by making it a parent child relationship so in the first two hours. We may make 10 changes those will collapse as child to one parent time stamp so that you can see what the changes were, but it's not. But it but it makes it a lot more condensed and a lot more user friendly when you're reviewing the information within the news release history. Commenting so what we wanted to be able to do is contextualize these changes obviously there are changes we may make that if at face value it needs more context we want to be able to do that. Taking our cues from existing tools out there that allow you to do that in markup for different documents, we added the ability to comment on a time stamp so if we make a change, we can contextualize that. And then in terms of our historical releases, we've had more than 12,000 news releases since the year 2000, and all of those are in our database, we did not retroactively put those all on blockchain. What we did was start with October 20, and the rest are what we call archived and we created an indicator in our design and in our copy to show clearly which pieces are and are not tracked. And if it goes down we do have the ability to surface automatically a notice for folks that it is actively being addressed. And the user is aware of that as they're reviewing our news release. We expect to have rolling changes in fact if we didn't have anything to lose here or anything to risk it would. It's really inconsequential and at face value looks insignificant so we have changes if you look back through the 120 plus news releases we publish since the end of October, our news releases do have changes, and they are transparent and you can see what we changed and when. So we didn't go into this thinking we're going to have a perfect record and have nothing at risk. And that's evident in the releases that are live today. So what I wanted to do here for a moment before I turn it over to Hunter. I hope that explains a little bit of the why behind the reason Verizon did this. I just want to show you a little bit more of the what specifically how this works on our website so I'm just going to pull up the screen here. I'm going to show you two different examples. This first example on my screen is showing you a news release with no changes. So this was just published this morning over here on the right hand side. It says no updates because we've made no effective changes to this. And then of course we have a little a little blurb about the initiative and a page where you can go to learn more and explains more about the entire initiative along with a white paper, etc. So as I scroll down through you could see there's no material changes and no updates listed here. Shifting to a piece excuse me to a news release that does have changes. The difference here is on the right hand rail. You'll see view changes and that indicates there is a record created on blockchain. So the default view for the news release is clean for all of our journalists and visitors and shareholders. When I click view changes a right hand rail pops out. This is also mobile responsive and and the user interface on mobile does reflect this but in a slightly easier way to digest. What you see here is a timestamp for every single time we've updated this news release going back to the original version. So all I do is click on it and I can scroll down and see this is the original that was published. And as I work through the different timestamps and click on them. It has it has the ability to anchor down to and scroll to whatever the change material change was and our markup is represented in a really intuitive way. Just like you would see essentially in Google Docs where new text is highlighted in gray and removed or edited text does have a strike through as you see up here. We changed tropical storm to hurricane. And so it's self evident in the way that we've crafted user interface and the design and then I can go back to the latest version. And I can even dismiss the box on the right hand side. So that's the demo of how the product works. Again it is not it is not on 100% of all content on Verizon dot com only our official news releases. So anything that falls under this category news releases. We do have other information that we publish that's general content or marketing oriented dot com page static dot com pages we do not use it there it's only on our official news releases. So with that share with you guys I'm excited to turn this over to Hunter Prender gas I'm going to stop sharing my screen here just a moment I'll let Hunter introduce himself in a little bit about his background but just for awareness. A little bit of a setup here when Verizon first started this initiative we had to choose and select carefully to find the right partner to help us implement the blockchain piece of this and so I'm excited to share with you the relationship we have with mad net has been great ever since and Hunter will take it from here to share with you what's what's under the hood for you guys. Thank you very much Jason I appreciate you introducing me and let me get my screen share pulled up here so that everything is laid out correctly. I'm actually going to stop the screen share and do one more I apologize everyone just want to make sure that I don't have to look up at a weird angle while I am speaking. Can everyone see my presentation correctly. Yes, yes, we got you there hunter thank you. All right thank you Jason so my name is Hunter Prender gas I'm the Vice President of Engineering for mad high. As Jason said, I was the lead technical technical or I was the lead engineer who stood behind the technical implementation of the cryptographic protocols that stand behind the full transparency initiative. And today what I'll be discussing is a little bit of the nitty gritty details of what those cryptographic algorithms are and how they actually operate. I'm not going to cover everything today for obvious reasons it's more material than we have time to cover. But I wanted to highlight what was the general overview of how these protocols operate and then go into a few very important sub components that speak to the eventuality of these protocols. And the way that they may be leveraged in future implementations as well as an overview of what this stack actually looks like. The system is set up such that full transparency operates as the non repudiation layer that leverages a thing called Crypto RTB Crypto RTB is a protocol that comes out of ad ledger. And it was originally implemented as a means to provide non repudiation and integrity claims against machine to machine interaction within the advertising stack. This protocol is extended and afforded the extra functionality that was necessary to make Verizon's project within full transparency operate inside of the existing infrastructure provided by this public key infrastructure system. In order to minimize the lift in order to build the full transparency system and behind this whole protocol stack is the actual blockchain. And we'll go into more detail about what each one of these sub components does shortly as a slightly more in depth view of the architecture that stands behind the system. The front end that Jason was just presenting essentially operates by interacting with the blockchain as well as the ad ledger identity provider system through a transparent software as a service API. This is a simple abstraction that allows their system to interact with the underlying services without having to care or differentiate between the different layers of functionality that are the actual public key infrastructure versus the underlying blockchain itself. And then at the very bottom what you'll see is that the Ethereum root of trust. This is a reference back to the fact that the mad network essentially snapshots its state back to the Ethereum network as a means of holding the mad network itself accountable as it progresses through the chain. And so mad network is itself a layer to blockchain solution on the Ethereum blockchain. To go into more detail about what each one of those sub components actually does from the previous slide. We can say that Verizon's full transparency tool is a non-repudiation and data integrity tool. It means that once something has been claimed in the public domain, it cannot be unclaimed so to speak. And the data integrity meaning that once it's been claimed it is apparent that it has been claimed and that has not been modified since then. The ad ledger crypto or TV layer in the middle that is the protocol essentially acts as the JWT based identity provider PKI. And then the underlying blockchain operates as essentially a time stamping service as well as what is a rough mapping to what we would call in traditional public key infrastructure technology as the online certificate status protocol or certificate transparency. How these rough mappings apply will be a little bit more apparent shortly, but these are just the general kind of analogous mappings. I won't say that they're perfectly one for one. What's actually stored in the blockchain within any given within any given entities account space in the blockchain, so to speak, such as Verizon. You would have a certificate that essentially has a link back to its entire certificate chain inside of the blockchain. And that this is the source of proof of identity inside of the system that ties back to a single root of trust anchor and that that root of trust anchor is the ad ledger crypto RTB PKI. With respect to the actual article data, how this non repudiation and that integrity guarantees are proven on chain has to with the section at the bottom of the screen here, where each article is essentially stored in a linked list. And so for each article that gets stored, there is a head object that gets stored, and it points to the maximum revision number or a given article. And then each node is respectively a new article revision in the history of a given article. And so by going to the head, and then iterating backwards, you can effectively walk the complete history of a given article inside of the blockchain. In addition to those objects that are written directly into the blockchain, in order to extend the functionality of the system such that it also allows verification to entities that exist in an environment that's not directly able to parse the blockchain or have access to it, such as resource constrained environments, mobile phones, other things of that nature. An independent proof object is also constructed that is a modification of the traditional JSON web token. And so the header of these objects essentially contains the parsing information and the root of trust proof, the certificate chain if you will. Inside of the claim sections of these JWTs, we communicate the important information of who, when, the hash, so essentially what, revision number, and then URIs, where those URIs reference where the actual underlying article data itself may be referenced. And then the footer is, of course, signature. And these JWTs are signed by Verizon using a key that is referenced inside of the certificate that is registered on the magnet blockchain. I wanted to highlight one specific component out of these JWTs that speaks very much to the future iteration and capabilities of the system is the hash, especially. The hash itself is not done in the traditional way of simply taking all of the data associated with the release and hashing it as a blog. Rather than doing it in this simplistic manner, we went with a slightly more complex implementation. And the idea here was that if you wanted to be able to prove, say, a sub quote or a subsection of an article, we wanted that to be trivial instead of having to prove an entire article at once. And the manner in which we're actually able to do this is that rather than simply hashing all of the data in one go, we take the data and we feed it through a chunking algorithm. And so once we have the data chunked out, we then put it into a Merkle tree and we use the root hash of the Merkle tree as the hash inside of those JWT objects as well as the hash that gets written into the blockchain. What this allows is that we can create a thing called a Merkle range proof against the section of the article or the associated content that we wish to form a proof against. And that we can instead of providing just the original JWT that was issued by, in this instance, Verizon. We can change out one simple field in the claims, which is the hash itself for a proof of inclusion against the Merkle range proof that we're just discussing. And what this allows is that a third party may form a proof against the original JWT that's issued by Verizon and is provably associated with them in the blockchain through the PKI. And this proof may be formed, this proof that can be formed non-interactively can then be issued into a third party context. So some other environment other than just the Verizon front-end so to speak. And you could still cryptographically prove all of the associated information without having to actually have all of the original content. So you could effectively prove a quote had originated from a specific entity inside of a specific article, and you could tie that back to a specific revision of that article. And you could do all of this non-interactively based on the set of information that was already formed in the original presentation of the proofs from that protocol itself. This is honestly one of the really exciting things that we want to see extended and used in a lot of different ways because speaking back to some of the points that Jason was talking about, being able to diminish the ability of an individual to communicate false information in social media or other places has an immense benefit to society. And we think that this is at least a mechanism by which this could potentially be addressed. This is the end of the technical components that I wanted to address today. So I'll obviously be answering questions about the technology at the end as well as Dante and Jason. But for now, I'll pass over the microphone to Dante and I'll allow you to begin your presentation. Thanks Hunter. Thanks. Thanks Jason. So as Hunter and Jason reviewed the current system handles whole text articles Hunter covered some of the advanced features that we want to the sub quote aspect. We're also looking at doing other forms of content including images so we have a prototype is just not incorporated into the full transparency system at this stage. But it's a future effort that we want to do. So the prototype. You can easily have from the from the production device into the network and our prototype we're actually covering to the point of creation or the point of image capture so this could be a camera, a video camera or a laptop or mobile phone. We're leveraging secure enclave or secure element if it's LTE or 5G enabled. And we're holding the private key in the secure enclave and doing a sign request for the transit for the blockchain transaction. So we take we the device captures the raw photo sends the request to be signed by the by the key and then has the hash metadata and thumbnail signed and that transaction goes into a web front end and from the web front end it gets deposited into the blockchain registry. Once it's filed into the registry then a registry proof is sent back to the device. So now the device has the registry proof and location and that could then be used in a subsequent publish of that piece of content. So we can also extract other key image characteristics as needed we could do like active data or other publishing information. We can run multiple hash methods against that that piece of content and we can even do some timestamp and anonymizing geolocation. We can do some anonymizing on the identity of the individual or the device or the individual operating the device or the device itself. And then on the client side after the the piece of content is registered. Then on the on the client side, it's pretty simple to do a verification against that registry because we have that registry proof and the transaction location so the client can use that data to query the registry and and verify the proof of that original content at a station. The other thing that can be done is even independent of having that proof that a hash could be generated for that piece of content and that hash can be submitted to the registry and have a look up performed on it. And then the registry can return back the thumbnail and the information of that original attestation and can say, yes, this is the this content was registered with with this hash. And this is the accompanying data, including the thumbnail. And then if the hash is not located, then it returns back a false to the application and then the user knows that, you know, to be wary of this content, because there's no matching registry information for it. So that's a quick rundown of the of the content attestation form and then, as I say, we hope to incorporate that in the near future into the full transparency service. Thank you. And with that we can now take questions. And I'll thank you Dante and Hunter just wanted to add to that before we turn back over you David to possibly coach the questions through. Thank you for those bearing with us you have a mixture of expertise on here I sit, obviously I sit in a different chair than Dante and Hunter so based on the question, just bear with us as we try to figure out who might might that excuse me who the best person to answer the question might be. Good. If I read out the questions because a lot of the folks have their screens blacked out so maybe they're on a phone, and therefore would benefit from hearing the questions read out. So going through them in chronological order me and nine minutes into the first presentation, Sean asked a question, is any of the initiative for the technology behind mad network backed by the defense or intelligence community as your initial graphic the one of the bad actors the exploding what paintballs was fascinating. Thanks for that David I'll let Hunter answer the immediate question, and then I have a little bit of color behind that. So at this time the technology itself is not backed by anything having to do with the DoD Department of Defense or otherwise. The technology could theoretically be used in such contexts, but at this time it is not. And I just wanted to add to that, based on our announcement we have had a lot of different parties reach out to us so we've seen in we've seen in those conversations how the technology could apply there. I'll leave it at that. And could this technology be used to authenticate the veracity of videos or audio in the future. Not being the SME I could say, I probably, I'm going to let Dante feel that one given the chair he sits in. Yeah, so as we cover with the last two slides. So, I think the question was early in the deck. With the last two slides that is intended to cover images videos a little bit more tricky because you, you know as, as you may be aware, a hash is going to return the same value every single time. So there's a little bit additional structure that needs to be put around it because you need a point of reference. So if somebody trims off the beginning of the video then the hash for the entire thing won't match you have to subdivide the asset. And that's some of that's some of the work that we're following up on. And would that be the same challenge for audio as well. It's a little bit easier, but yeah you still have the same if somebody turns off the beginning of the audio, then it's not going to match the hash. You know, similar in advance discussion for even the image if you put a board or anything that the model that I showed any so we the starting point is the raw photo from the device. As you do like red eye correction, or other filters, then you know, we're working with industry partners in the space to see what we can do to, to solidify that work, and be able to have the device or the application, then sign the work that was done so the raw photo is a basis and then any corrective action that was taken would also be registered and linked back to that raw photo. Kyle was asking whether it's possible to see your white paper or a white paper that would explain some of the technical details. Absolutely. Thank you for the question. I'll paste that in the chat as we're moving forward. It'll take you. I'll paste the direct link to the white paper and also the general overview page for the initiative. Great question. First of all, there was comment made. This looks like a digital rights management for devices but with transparency. Would that be fair to say Don't say you probably can feel that a little better than that. I think you can have that view to it. Yes, that this is like, you know, in the classic form of DRM. This is not the classic application of it. But in the generalized sense of rights management, you can look at it in that manner that you're essentially capturing where the piece of content was sourced, and then the history along the way is similar to what Jason showed with full transparency. If you have a fair statement to make, then there was a follow up question. How can you guarantee the device itself has not been compromised? Yes, that's a great question. We can look at the firmware. So the device manufacturer itself can sign for the device and for the each version of firmware that it currently has so we can, we can have knowledge of what firmware with running on the device when the capture took place. Next question. Is this a web or network only solution? Where is it? Is there a perhaps a parallel discussion about content security on mobile devices? Yeah, I could take that. Also, if you want, Jason. Thanks, Dante. Yeah, for the content at a station piece, we definitely incorporated mobile devices I mentioned a secure element. So you can have a secure enclave secure element that's actually easier in the mobile device to be able to secure that object. We could extend it to IoT devices in general. And then we also incorporated in our prototype laptops. So having it actually what we actually did was use the third party secure enclave on a USB stick, but it would be symbolic of being able to put that on a board to have like a crypto helper on the device. And that's doing the sign request. Does that answer the question? Hopefully it didn't come from me. So if it doesn't, then I'm sure we'll get a very quick follow up and we can look back to continue the same discussion. A very positive comment, which was very cool technology. There was a related question regarding whether or not Verizon is also facing, sorry, interfacing IoT with hyperledger on the blockchain. Yeah, nothing that's been made public at this time but you know these are relevant spaces that I think many carriers are looking at. In fact, when it comes to hyperledger and seeing as we've spoken about photographs as well you guys must be aware of the project of the New York Times, regarding the provenance of photographs does that in any way overlap with your initiatives and intentions, or is it is it something of a very different path that's being taken technologically. I'll talk about the overall initiative and then I can take the technical question. Yeah, so we have, I'll say simply that we have a great relationship in New York Times from a 5G perspective. And so I could tell you that we touch base on the right things and this would be one of them. But outside of that, we see that there, you know, we have parallel purposes in general, but for a lot of reasons that the technology underlying it is a serious consideration as well so I'm going to leave it at that so I don't conflate things. Dante, do you want to add color? Yeah, so I think that, you know, they both projects originated organically separate. But there's a, yes, there's a lot of crossover between at least the overall intention and the main thrust of the work. Some of the implementation details have some differences but you know we should be able to do some interoperability if the industry required it. David, you might be on mute. Yes, I am. Thank you. I just so just to say I put a link to the New York Times project in the chat. Question, this seems quote like a robust solution for a lot of the issues we've been dealing with on social media for several years. Has there has any thought been given to integrations on social media venues such as Twitter, Facebook, etc. We, because of version one of this technology and the great, you know, comments like this that we've gotten back feedback from third parties, etc. There's no lack of potential for this, I'll say that. And yes, that's been one of the many great applications this technology could have. It's funny, I'm working my way through the HBO documentary series about QAnon at the moment and all of the effort that's going into figuring out who Q is. So there might be some interesting adventures there. Kyle has a very technical question. How are the Merkle tree leaf nodes? There we go, I've closed out the construction. How are the Merkle tree leaf nodes or data blocks chunked per word as the slide suggests or something else like an HTML element? I can take that. I'm just kidding, Hunter. So the way that it's being done currently is actually based on white space, but the chunking algorithm is a field that's actually named inside of the associated proof object. The idea was that although we could name a few different rational chunking algorithms on day one, we had no idea what future implementations would necessitate or what would be optimal. So you essentially name the associated chunking algorithm from a list of allowed chunking algorithms, and it then does chunk, however, that algorithm does operate. Currently, like I said earlier, though, it is based on white space. Could this technology be used to augment the authenticity of digital signatures? For instance, with docuSign. Yeah, that's one of the use cases we've examined is being able to prove the authenticity of digital signatures in an open system that would have perpetuity. We have another question about whether or not it could be applied to video. I think we've probably covered that. Could, in quotation marks, adversary countries also use this technology to prevent their adversary countries from promoting fake news within their boundaries? Could you foresee a world where folks use this technology to simply immunize and rid the world of fake news falsities and non-truths? I think that's a great question. We had a lot of great questions from this group so far. One of the things we recognized in the beginning is that this isn't a truth machine, so you can still put fake information into this system if you are the source. It has a lot of transparency associated with it, credibility. Actually, this analogy just occurred to me in the sense that you can almost see this as, and I'll see how good this analogy is or isn't as I'm speaking to it. But on LinkedIn, when you share something, your professional credibility is attached to it, whereas in Twitter, it's a lot more loose. Moving the ecosystem from a more Twitter-like to a more LinkedIn-like attachment to the information you share elevates the level of credibility associated with the organization. That said, you could still put a lie or fake news into the system. It depends on the integrity of the organization, but the net-net result is it's attached to the entity. Over time, that attachment depreciates the credibility and would essentially remove them as a legitimate source. I didn't speak to the boundaries piece of it. If anyone else down there, Hunter, have thoughts, please feel free to add. If not, we're fine, but when we talk about geo-constraining this, I don't have the insight into what it would take to geographically bound a technology like this in terms of all of the different technological considerations involved between state-to-state and systems and how we isolate networks, etc. But I don't believe it would be an easy lift unless you were more of a restrictive country like those in the world that we hear often are controlling access to connectivity. So I don't believe it could easily do that. Yeah, I suppose if at the root of social media or browsers, you pointed it to national registry and that's where the proofs were coming from. If you could enforce that constraint, then that would be essentially the single source of truth. I would hope that we could do something more globally that everyone saw a consistent single source of truth instead of a fragmented ecosystem, and that's something that we're trying to promote. I think the main part to underscore with what Jason said is that traceability and the reputation over time that, as he said, we can't attest to the truth of a statement, but we can say where the statement was sourced from, which is one of the problems of underscoring the propagation of fake news today. And a lot of times you see the source of a fake article would have ended up being sourced by the same entity or someone with adjacent interests. So they point to the source of an article and say, oh yeah, I'm promoting this because I heard it from this other source over here. So unless having more transparency in the overall ecosystem would at least improve that aspect. As far as the MAD network creating a hash on the Ethereum network for authentication, will this require spending Ethereum every time? Well, let's start with that. So to speak to that, the hash that's actually written back into the Ethereum blockchain is done on a periodic basis. So currently that's every 1,024 MAD net blocks, which means that you can fold a significant amount of state back into a compact representation inside of Ethereum. So although, yes, everything that is written does ultimately require something to be written back to Ethereum. How frequently that occurs is very infrequently with respect to how much data can be proven inside of that one right that does occur against Ethereum. And in a similar vein, is the MAD token required for Verizon to use the network, much like Ethereum is required to interface with that network? So the system does actually leverage the token systems that stand behind MAD network. Those systems are actually abstracted for the purposes of Verizon though, meaning that they do not ever have to concern themselves directly with those low level implementations. That's going back to the abstraction of the blockchain as a service API that we're speaking or that I spoke to early on in my presentation. Oh, sorry, please go on. Yeah, Hunter, did you want to address the energy aspect of that? So, yeah, if we wanted to touch on the energy concerns with respect to the differentiation between say Ethereum and the sidechain, MAD net sidechain. The sidechain itself is a proof of stake system, meaning that the amount of energy that it consumes is fractions of what the proof of work mining systems for Bitcoin and actually Ethereum mainnet do leverage. But since we do back up into the Ethereum blockchain itself, we I guess are at least in part responsible for some of the energy consumption of the Ethereum mainnet, but a very small component of the total. Have you been looking at supply chain standards for digital goods like DBOMs or design build operate maintain contracts? Yeah, I'm not familiar with with that acronym, but yes, we've been looking at supply chain. Okay. Well, it's simplified a little bit later in the subsequent sentences. Actually, digital bill of materials. Oh, sorry. Thank you. I misunderstood your acronym is being is relating to a different supply chain issue. Yes. Yeah, so we actually we actually did a couple of prototypes in the vendor managed inventory space using blockchains and we continue to do further analysis of supply chain applications. Next question relating to future contacts. Who can I talk to a horizon about integrating IoT with blockchain for your mad technology for IoT modules. Thanks for that. So on the initiative page, which I shared in the chat. If you scroll back up there is an email contact at the bottom of there and that's where we triage all of the inbound interest. Carl if if you do send us that email please mention that you are part of this, this webinar please. Wouldn't to GitHub public project have given you guys similar types of guarantees with arguably greater transparency. I'm reading through that myself and I definitely know I can't feel that one I'm unsure if Dante Hunter might be better. So is the question geared towards a crowdsourcing effort. Manso would you like to jump in. Yeah, it was it was more around how easy or difficult it is to understand what a hash on the blockchain means right you still need to give me the payload for me to verify that what is on the blockchain is actually being represented on your website correctly. Whereas if you just had a GitHub repo where you actually track changes using commits, the verbosity is already there. I understand that you want to decentralize the trust required, but then there are already a lot of trust bottlenecks in this architecture right you've got your CRM you've got your PKI you've got magnet. And yeah, I'm not convinced if that is actually adequately decentralized the trust enough to justify doing this instead of doing a GitHub repo. Yeah, you know, as it's currently structured it's it's not it's set up to be decentralized but it's not operated in the decentralized manner at the current time. But it's, it's using a lot of open source software, and we can admit other participants we we've had discussions with with other corporate partners about joining the initiative. So it's, that's the intent of it is to go into that end state from, you know, Jason showed a project and all the different teams that had to be involved for us to move forward as a corporate entity so you know in large corporations there's a lot of different pieces last stakeholders a lot of different processes that need to be incorporated and with carriers there's also the regulatory aspect that Jason touched on. So given all that. It's easier to work with single technology partner and have a defined objective and project plan, and then open it up once once we launch it and you know the corporation can get behind it. And then attract other partners to that network and expand on that beachhead. In fact, Mansoor just by chance has a what will probably be the last question I've got a very quick follow on myself so Mansoor again asks after an expression of gratitude thanks for the super informative presentations what tools or libraries did you use to do the secure of the authentication of camera outputs. And is that something that's open source. Yes, it's not open source at the current time we've been exploring we use two different systems one from a from a vendor that filament. The USB stick that I had referred to, and then the other one is an internal project security applet that Verizon themselves built in our device technologies partner team. We are looking to open source that but it is a lengthy process to do so. Thanks for the question. We've got time for one more which I think I selfishly claim for myself. I've done anything regarding fake news about covert. Because I know this is something that I've been invited to sort of take part in a project UCLA hospital because they're very concerned about, especially on millennial platform so especially on tiktok and things like clubhouse right where it's just it's a streaming audio signal. It just moves too fast in order to be able to monitor it but is there anything that you've done there visa visa scientifically dubious claims about covert over the last year or so. I can I can speak from a corporate communications perspective from a technology perspective. You don't I don't know that we have and Dante could if Dante is aware you could share, of course, being the size, the size of the company we are. We can do our best to represent our no knowledge of the universe where we're working. I can tell you that the short answer is no I don't have anything in my fingertips to point to you to say here's what we've done. But I can tell you just like with this initiative are our brand and forgive me forget for a very five second tangent here. I work here for eight years because I've been impressed with how this company has evolved to actually care about society from the inside out instead of from the outside in in ways that I haven't seen and I've had many roles at different companies. So I stay here for that reason and this initiative is just one signal of that. We make statements through our news releases you can see some even in the last two weeks regarding some some sensitive things happening out there in society and we're doing that more often for reasons you can imagine we have to be careful about what we say and when so that we can move in the right direction and not just say what we want to say but do something behind it to prove it. So I hope that was a little informative and so I don't have an immediate example to point to but I can tell you that when when we do have the opportunity, we evaluate it and make sure we're doing something before we say something. Dante is there anything from a technology perspective that you have. Yeah, I was just answering Nathan had a question on Raspberry Pi so I was just answering. Can I can I sorry gentlemen can I ask a question. Sorry it's really really frustrating had three incoming calls and that takes me. That just knocks me completely out of this webinar, but I've got a question. So, because Verizon is doing a great thing here with the protection of content. I'm just wondering, let's say for CCTV cameras, etc, etc. If it would not make sense for Verizon to be discussing these things with their cellular module suppliers for CCTV cameras. And that's how you would integrate IOT with the blockchain. And if you're on the same line that I am. I really hope that you can refer me to talk to somebody my name is Carl Weaver, and I work for itos. And we know that this is that what Verizon is doing is going to be great for close circuit TV, because you're essentially, you're actually applying this video and still imagery to the blockchain for transparency purposes purposes, but it needs to funnel back to the IOT device vendor to implement this technology and then we want to be involved because that's kind of what we do the integration of IOT with blockchain. Does any of this make any sense gentlemen, if so, can we please chat. All affirmative. I can put you into contact with our device technologies team. And then for like as Jason mentioned at the top of the call, he sponsors the overall corporate initiative. But on the device side, we really should connect you with our device technology partners. This involves the same team that I was referring to that had built the security applet. Sounds great. I think I left my email but if somebody could get me that contact person that I can chat with this week. That would be outstanding I I'm very diligent I got taken off this webinar three times and here I am back on. Thank you. Yeah I don't see the. Let me do it one more time. Hold on a second I've got it I'll paste it in here. Okay, well we thank you thank you everybody. Sorry to interrupt. Okay, no no no no problem that's the whole point. With that I think out of respect for everyone's time we should probably draw things to to a gentle end thank you to thank you to all three of you guys for. I think what is going to prove to be the impetus for future research so I'd imagine that we're all very grateful for the white paper in particular. So thanks very much for coming on at different times of the day in different places, and we hope if I may. Thank you for having us here and I again this is not a standalone for Verizon so part of the reason we do webinars like this is so that we have folks reach out to us and how can we talk to you how can we work with you. So this is intended to be an open source initiative, and there are a lot of ways this could go so I hope you guys anybody watching this in the replay would go to the initiative on our website and see the contact alias. If you do have interest in working with us on this. So thank you. Super so thank you Jason thank you Dante and thank you Hunter. Great. Thank you David. Okay, thanks everyone and one quick note for people to continue the conversation the media and entertainment sake has mailing lists I dropped a link in the chat if you we want to continue the discussion with each other let's use the list. Fantastic. The power of two Davids. Thanks everyone. Okay, thanks everyone. Thank you.