 I just want you all to know for our awareness we have a code of conduct of respecting one another and respecting the rules, basic ground rules. If there are any new faces here go ahead and introduce yourself at this time. Milad says you look different today destiny so maybe you should reintroduce yourself. Destiny says, okay, I will go ahead I am destiny of Connor, and I'm the chair here hosting this meeting for all of us today and that's funny I'm a new face nice to meet you all. I'll allow anyone else to introduce themselves if they'd like. I see a hand. Thanks, I'm really, for some reason I'm struggling to find the zoom controls were that allow me to raise my hand so. I'm just doing it manually, I guess. Yeah, it should be at the bottom. Yeah, I'm not sure why my I'm anyway, I'm not sure why it just looks a little different than I think it's now under reactions at the bottom. Yeah, yeah I think mine is also my screen is all split between participants and chat and I don't even see my normal bar it's probably my own, my own zoom clients issue. I'll try to find it. But anyway, to the point my name's Scott rugby I know I introduced me as Scott. I, by way of quick introduction. I'm part of the cloud native community. I co maintained several CNCF projects. I'm involved in some working groups including sharing co chairing the get ups working group and the open get ups project to. And, and I like to work, I help with mentoring folks. And I'll be speaking on that topic today, but since you asked for introductions. That's mine. And that's nice to meet you all. That's me says so nice to meet you. Yes, I'll. Yay. Welcome. All right. I'm not sure Dennis, are you new here, or do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself Dennis. Dennis is yes I am new here. Yes, I can introduce myself. My name is Dennis. Um, should I go into any more of an explanation. Yeah, go ahead. You can feel free. My name is Dennis. This is my sign name. And I was born in Ukraine. And I have moved to Canada where I currently live now. I've been studying a program called swift, but prior to that, I learned Java and left that behind moved on to see plus plus left that behind. I've learned many different languages but I've focused mostly predominantly on swift that's my favorite programming language. Do you want any more information. And he says so that's great so nice to meet you. Dennis, welcome. Thank you. Okay. So, we're now going to talk more about elms triage. The maintenance or management plan. Would you like to take. Yes. Absolutely. Scott. Yes, I, yes I would. So, so yeah, everyone. I mentioned that I, I maintain several CNCF projects and one of them is helm. So you may have heard of this project a lot of people in the club and the Kubernetes community use it. I've been co maintaining home since 2017. And I am involved in every level from governance from from working with the helm charts and best practices charts to to being a core maintainer of the helm project, you know the helm binary, and to being on the governance committee, or the governance or team. Yeah, I think I'm seeing a different screen than other people I'm really not sure why that is but that's okay because now that I'm speaking I don't need to. For now I don't need to raise my hand, but. Yeah, so, so let me just get settled here I think it was a little unsettled because my screen looks a little different than what I'm used to. Pardon me just bear with me for for. Yes, yes, take your time. This is my lot. If you share your screen it makes all of our screen smaller, which is a little bit harder to see everyone so just wanted to call that out. Maybe just share your screen and then reduce the screen again or stop sharing so we can see one another. Thank you maybe that's the best way to do it okay. All right, great. I will go ahead and do that. Destiny says, it does appear differently. Web or browser versus the app. Some features don't show up, or they do show up differently depending on how you're connecting. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'm on the app, but and the thing is I use zoom all the time I'm just not I'm not really sure why maybe it's a, maybe it's just something that happened with my settings, but in any case I'll share my screen if I can figure out how to do it. Or just share the link, and we can look at it. Okay yeah I think I'll I'll go ahead and do that. Okay, well, so thank you for that. Okay, I'll stick in the chat. And for now, here is the link to the helm project to the main binary where you download helm and where you submit issues to the helm project. The reason I'm mentioning this is because I, I co maintained both I co maintained helm flux and open get ups, but I wanted to share with you. One of the ways that what we've set up as a contributor ladder from people who are community members to people who can participate and contribute in different ways to to additional steps along the way toward potentially becoming a maintainer. I give presentations to people a lot and help people walk people through the code base giving an introduction to the code base. I don't think there's time for that today, but this is more about the process of what what that takes and some of the easy some of the steps, especially a few extra stepping stones that we've added to to help make that process more achievable. And it's not as hard as some people may think. The community page or excuse me the community repo for for helm is here. And this is is here. And I just wanted to, to, to bring your attention to, to a few different parts of this. One is there is, there's a, excuse me, everything that's related to the cube, the, the helm organization is here. Main code of contact onboarding guide for maintainers and, and things like that. But there's one section that a lot of people might not, might not know about, which is, which is this directory called hips. And that stands for helm improvement proposals. It was based on Python improvement proposals, and it's essentially a specific way of, of doing RFCs, like some maybe some other projects have RFCs, so that you can propose major changes or propose. Yeah, proposed major changes either in the tool itself in processes. And they can also be informational. So information about the hips is in hip one. You don't really need to read that right now but just to give by way of an introduction. This is something that folks can see. And the reason that I'm bringing that up on this call is not just arbitrary. Because there is a helmet improvement proposal that's been accepted. And we've been using it for quite a while now. That is called. That's about the title is helm triage maintainers. And here it is a tip 14. And this was, this was a while ago that we've done, we set this up to plus years ago. And summer 21. And the, the point of it was that there have been a lot of contributors to helm. The helm project under helm helm that first link that I sent you consistently has around, even when we're, even when we've had a lot more people to help with pull request reviews and, and so on, it would always remain somewhere between 100 to 300 open pull requests. It's a highly contributed to project. And some of these pull requests are new features bug fixes and other important contributions. And we're still maintaining ours as we do not have the bandwidth to review them all. And so, unfortunately, the community doesn't always get the recognition or contributors don't always get the recognition that they deserve. We try to do that we try to, we try to have a protocol on responding to pull requests and reviewing them in a timely manner, but we're fairly few or a handful of people. We're used by so many people. There really aren't that many maintainers. So we identified this role called a triage maintainer. And that's for people who want to help do issue and pull request triage. Those things that I was just saying we have difficulty keeping up with. And the idea there is, that is a way, I mean you can read this proposal, but just as a short intro to this. It's a way for people to get a feel of whether or not they like doing that sort of the sort of maintainer work. That side of maintainer work. And it's a way it's kind of a combination of a mentorship where you can shadow. Essentially what what we do is we end up having people shadow us or other people who have been reviewing these pull requests on this project for a while. And they can answer, they can ask any question you can ask any questions as you go. We can help point things to toward think two things that are perhaps not obvious that someone who's been doing it for a while feel are obvious but they're not obvious to someone who's approaching it new, or maybe someone who's approaching it from a different background. So that's the goal of it and the goal is once someone's reviewing a number of pull requests and they know that they can dedicate some consistent time to it. Obviously not full time. We're all working and we all have things to do we have lives. But if we know that we can do it regularly and we enjoy doing it, then one of the maintainers can nominate you as a triage maintainer. What that means is you're a real maintainer of the project. You are added to your added as a member to the home project you can show that badge on your on your GitHub profile. We announce you as a triage maintainer. And there are just several limitations between from several things that being in that initial triage maintainer role, you don't get as a full maintainer. And those are, those are listed in this proposal. So it's, it's all transparent. And there have been several people now who are full maintainers who started off as a triage maintainer. So it's a program that we know works. And primarily I wanted to present that. And I'm also happy to, to share, we don't have such a program, the specific type, or this specific role for the flux project, or the open get ops project. But we do try to do a similar thing. And I would really like to implement that influx. I think, especially now that flux is a graduated project. And probably though I would do what would be good is to get more feedback from folks, and to get more triage, more people helping with triage and having more triage maintainers in the home project, because this, this for Helm is kind of a pilot program. There I don't know. There may be other projects that have this I know there are other contributor ladders, but I don't know of other projects that have exactly this. I'd like to share with all of you if any of you are interested in this, there are ways to contribute, regardless of your technical background. And there are ways to contribute and help with this. A short example is, even if someone is not really familiar with writing go the language that Helm and Kubernetes and others are written in. There are still ways that you can help with this, for example, a lot of the actual triaging of pull request has to do with identify trying to understand whether or not a pull request has an issue already associated with it one or more issues. Is it just something that someone thought about. And they wanted in to contribute to the project in the sense that it solves their problem do others have this problem. Then, you know, asking people that if you can't find those issues. And then if there are existing issues. Can you reproduce those issues. So learning how to build the learning how to test those specific issues making sure are there still steps to reproduce them. Someone may open an issue and most of the time they don't give exact steps on how to how to reproduce the problem that they're running into. And sometimes their issue isn't really reproducible at something that happens intermittently. So that's the thing to identify to work with them to help them identify what what the conditions are that make up the case. And sometimes you don't really have that luxury because someone won't respond and that's okay. So, part of it is just trying to see what you can do on that side of things. The polar, the person that opens a pull request is usually more responsive because they're motivated to get their contribution into the project. So, asking them for for reproduce reproducibility steps, and then going through those steps yourself and see if you can reproduce the problem on the versions of helm that that are supposed to be an issue. And if you can't let that be known, you know and show your exact stuff. If you can also let that be known great we verify that we produce this issue. And then I, I or other help maintainers can show you how to point you to the resources somehow to build the helm binary from that pull request and then use that person's contribution in that version of helm to see if that doesn't in fact fix the issue. And if it does, then you've done a lot of the legwork that we struggle to get to as maintainers. You know because we all, we also have to review the code and make sure okay yes it fixes an issue that someone identified, but does it fix and it doesn't fix it in the way that we think is the right way to do it. Does it, does it risk causing more issues, you know, is it too specific. It does it follow best practices things like that and that is part of the review once you get to the code review. But we, it's not really in anyone's interest for us to do that kind of code review, unless those until those other steps are done and generally have to do that ourselves. And since this is all volunteer. Having more people to help with that would really help the project continue to move forward. And also, it's a huge part of being a maintainer. And so, if you, if you do that that, and find that you enjoy doing that and can do it consistently that I will definitely nominate you as a tree as container. If you are able to do have other skills and either want to learn go or already have some transferable well, excuse me transferable transferable knowledge from other projects, or excuse me other languages, and, or already are familiar with go, then you could take those additional steps and give you work, regardless of whether you're a full maintainer of the project, anyone can review pull requests. So you can give your opinions on things that you think feel may need to change, or what you think works. And that's also really valuable. So yeah, I think, please help with that if you can. And, and I just want to show you one other thing on the open get ops project, because that there is a way to contribute to that too that's a little bit different, because it's not code based. I'm sorry for the interpreter are you saying get ops. Yes, yes. Sure, because it's a little different than get about making sure I was clear, thank you. Yes, thank you. Absolutely. And here is the link to that project. Yeah, thanks Catherine. Yeah. So, so in, in this project, I just want to point you to one file in this project because I know that this meeting isn't all about me presenting this. I hope it's helpful to folks but it's just one of the topics on. I could keep going for 12 hours on this. So here is the file it's called teams that MD in that repository. And this helps to I hope. Please read this when you can. What it shows is like, why we set up teams for the open get ops project. It's a sandbox project in CNCF. And what the process is of participating in these teams joining a team. And, and then a list of the people involved in the teams and their active status. So their active teams propose teams, pause teams. And there's a section for inactive teams because they may not be paused like for example the principles committee team is over we've, we've, we have developed the 1.0 version of the get ops principles that are accepted by every cloud vendor and player within the tech world who cares about get ops. That took six months to do. For example but that is now a team that was that succeeded and is closed. And now there are other teams that we need help with. So, and there may be other topics that someone is interested in and wants to write about, and those can become new teams so new teams can be proposed. So this is the project for this project because it's primarily about. It's primarily a project around documentation creating best practices, but there is a place for potentially code as well. We just don't have any in this project yet. And it can be for interoperability between other get ops projects such as our go CD flux, Carvel captain and other get ops projects within CNCS. And I think that's really, that's really all I wanted to share so thanks very much please get in touch with me on slack I'm Scott Rigby on slack. Wonderful. Definitely says so nice to meet you Scott thank you so much for that wonderful information. I just want to make sure everything knows that what Scott's talking about is linked in the agenda. So if you want to be able to follow along all of the supporting material is there in the links in the agenda if you have any questions reach out to Scott or ask Scott. Yes, my lot. A lot says yes, I can see the project. The people who are working in the project. The requirements and the asks all of that information. I'm wondering how the process works is it voluntary. I guess what is the process. It's all it's all voluntary. All the, all the CNCF projects are are voluntary and they, it has to be that way. It doesn't mean that you can't get paid to do it. It just means that the CNCF or the projects themselves don't pay you to do it. There are contractors at times and so there are projects where folks have been hired by CNCF to work on projects but it's very rare. It's something that are usually internal projects to CNCF one one example is artifact hub. That's a project that Dan Kohn, who used to, who used to run CNCF who's since past. That was one of his projects that he started or not not started himself but hired out to get help with because there was a need in the community. There are many different, there are many different hubs for there is a helm hub there were hubs for different types of artifacts for projects, and now there's one that consolidates them all. So that is one example but it's they're very rare, mostly you mostly people try to get their employer to approve work on the clock so that they can get paid for the work that they do. I don't know if I helped answer your question a lot. Or if you meant something different. Yes, that did that was a good answer. I'm just trying to look at it from a different perspective with the process knowing if I know GitHub is all voluntary but I'm wondering if this is maybe different for example, in maybe in terms of giving an award to someone who does a really good job maybe, or something they could put on their resume to show their experience, you know, to help embellish their resume is there some type of certificate not necessarily reward but a certificate or something to show to show you know for professional development purposes. I definitely yes but I see that Catherine has your hand raised to so maybe. I don't know if you wanted to, to jump in before, or to answer that or to kind of goes into your into that direction right the way open source as Scott mentioned open source works like open source is free software and like the whole idea of it became that open source on their own time. Of course there are companies who pay people to country to contribute to it but that's like not like what we're asking for you would have to be working for one of those companies but the whole idea about open source is that the community contributes for free. And so that everyone benefits. There are a lot of. I mean, I think there is much more than a badge that comes in terms of what you gain from contributing, especially if you're a project maintainer which would be like kind of like the last step of that. It is really really well regarded this opens a lot of I mean it is better than it is a very high when it's kind of like. It is a title that you can call yourself you can put that in your resume and not everyone gets that so it is very special and a lot of people really want to become it because it is. That's good and recognize. So, yeah, so I think it's much more than a badge that you can put on LinkedIn like it is a real title community title and very well regarded and even if you don't are a maintainer but if you are very active in a project right. People you meet people people see that is also valued you can also show like the work that you've done so all of this and a lot of people I mean. Do it because of the benefits that you get from it professionally through the network that you build and and the knowledge that you built that you get through it so it is very specifically now space right it is very well regarded and maintainer is basically the highest level you can get. Does that make sense. Yes. Wonderful answer. Thank you. Thanks. I still can't find my hand raised thing I'll I'll I'll work on this before the next meeting. I will tell you this that I have tons of job offers opportunities, and so on, because I'm a maintainer project of of at least one project. There aren't very many people in CNCF that maintain multiple projects, I am really not sure why I do this to myself. I would say that I got into it for not really for professional development reasons I got into a pure interest. But I also. I really I did realize pretty quickly that the open source projects that I started working on at the beginning of my career, around 17 years ago was was been it was beneficial to me almost immediately. So, so just for what Catherine said, there are direct professional direct professional benefits. Another thing is, because I'm a maintainer on projects, I have the opportunity to speak at cloud native event at a coupon cloud native con on maintainer track talks. So, really, every, every CNCF project gets a, an opportunity to have a maintainer track talk and a, and a booth at at coupon and cloud native con, where we can help people better understand the project and just consequently it increases our own visibility, but you can also get additional support from CNCF for travel scholarships, you can already, some of you may know that you can already get travel scholarships for, for being a speaker, and you don't need to be a maintainer for being a speaker, of course, but but you can get specific one of the application sections, there are there's need based, there's Oh gosh, there's the diversity scholarship, and then there's also a scholarship for maintainers. So, so that is also another benefit. I'm just trying to think of some of the major benefits. I don't know. Yeah, those are those are a few of them and they're pretty big ones. Thank you so much says destiny. I really appreciate that Scott. Yeah, many, many thanks from the group. I apologize, we're going to have to move on just for the sake of time. Next up we'll be talking about Com Paris. Thank you. So Catherine. Yeah, so it's very exciting we're going to be very, very busy there is so much going on at coupon for a group. So the team on site will be an estate jamilat Rob Martin Emmanuel only on Wednesday, and hopefully some deep was working on his visa. So if that. So that would be a quite good large group, which would be nice. There are several activities. One is we have a part time kiosk as you know that's exactly in the project pavilion that Scott mentioned that's where all the CNCF projects are, and because we are a working group we also got one there. And see the little exhibit hall is huge. This is just a little part and that's only open source. So that's no vendors. It's just open source. We will be there with will be able to say hi to Scott because he will be there at the flux booth. And I made sure I made sure that our booth is right next to the linker D booth where I will be morning so the green one on the little thing is linker D and the red one is. Because I was like, then I can be there and help if needed or whatever. So I'm really excited that worked out. Okay, so we have the part time kiosk in the morning. We have which the idea is that anyone can come and chat with our team like any questions that they that they may have you know like just like most people have never interacted with a deaf or hard of hearing person. We want them to give the get them the opportunity to come and chat ask any questions it's just about like creating that connection right because suddenly like talking about accessibility only without knowing who is actually who actually needs it it's just abstract concept. Once you meet people who actually need it, then it makes it human and more real so that's why I think it's really important to have that connection and meet as many people as possible and talk to them and recruit allies that's what we ultimately want we want to recruit allies. People who can, you know, like, just go out there and and call out when a situation is not accessible and so on. So, kiosk will be great. We also have during the booth crawl assigned language crash course. So the booth crawl is at the exhibit hall. Wednesday night I think there's a little bar and there are a lot of fun activities so it's supposed to be something fun. And so we're going to have like a little get come and join and learn a few signs and just get just a fun activity. We're also going to have like an open space discussion. And the links to the schedule are there open space discussion that's like an open a table where we're going to have like a discussion about accessibility. You can also see the link and the actual abstract on the schedule, and we're going to have quite a few speaking engagements. So, Milad will be doing a lightning talk it's not on the schedule yet. It's a new thing that they implemented. It's a lightning talk for projects. We had lightning talks as well that's not on the agenda yet. Anastasia will be co presenting with Scott at Argo con and someone else but like they're going to be the three of them are going to be presenting Argo con. They're going to be a day before cube con right like on day on Tuesday, they're going to be a lot of different co located events. Rob will be doing a talk on AI with two people from Google. So that's going to be pretty cool. The diversity panel with Emmanuel James friends and other people as well. Then we have our tag panel, where some deep and me are going to be. And then we have anastasia on the keynote stage on Friday that's the highlight. So, that's a lot of speaking engagements I'm really excited because it's really important to see deaf people on stage. Because that raises a lot of visibility right like we're here, you know, like you are here and part of the community. So, yeah, I'm really excited about that. Wow, that's a lot. This is amazing. This is the best as Mila best ever. Taking the stage. All right. Then we have two media interviews for written publications. This is amazing work. I just have to say all of this work. Wow. Yeah, we're going to be busy so Mila, no, no sleeping in. I don't want to interrupt the process or I don't want to interrupt here I'm sorry you're still continuing please go on. I know it's so much right but yeah so for anyone who thought they would come to keep on to relax forget about it. Okay, we're going to be busy but that's good. Yes. So we have two media interviews for written publications. We have the cube interview that's like a, like a, that's the one that Robin destiny did last time. Right, that's correct. So I wanted to give you all a heads up that after your talk expect people to come up to you and want to meet you. And these last minute impromptu interviews to happen be prepared. Just like you said no relaxing, we will be very very busy running from place to place getting interviewed over here and over there so get ready for that experience, but it's a great time you'll enjoy your week. Mila said, I'll bring some tea. I'll bring lots and lots of tea. Because there are some parties to so it's like it's the party and the work. I prefer tea over coffee. Good. Yeah, that's true we will have time to have a party, especially with Rob, it'll be a party. Okay, so those are all the activities that keep con and I see Scott has a question or for you. You just had your hand. Yes, I just realized I didn't need to ask out loud but maybe it's faster. Does everyone do all the people in this working group who are deaf have someone to sign a signing interpreter with them. Yes, well, well, the CNCF provides. Yeah. Okay, next, just because we have only 15 minutes. So, related to this, that's important you see you we have like all these talks and interviews. We are working on that messaging dog, right. And so our working group has a very important mission I hope you all agree. And so this document will. The idea support to be a tool to help you communicate that effectively, right because you all have kind of you know what it is and so on but it's like, what does effectively mean right it's like really describing our mission and goals. Articulate why it is important and how they can help like remember we want to recruit allies so the how they can help is important. And then educate people on what deaf and hard of hearing people bring to the table. And we really have to do that in a clear and concise way so people remember right like because if you have a lot of ideas and your thoughts are not organized. You're going to confuse people. Right, so it's really important to be, you know, kind of. Find a way to to express it in a way that people can remember and and and like like the key the key points as well so that's kind of the goal of the messaging dog. And so basically how do you use it. Don't cover it all like you will see it's very long so it's not you're not you're going to overwhelm people if you tell everything that is on that document. And you pick a few points, you know that that you that resonate with you with your experience. And then you focus on that right and then. And also if you have a speaking opportunity and you see something really resonates with the audience, let us know right that's let the team know it's like oh when I said this because that's really important to because we want to know, we need to know what what resonates with people most right. Um, so the link is there. Please do do go look at it we have a few gaps. Any questions regarding the messaging doc. Okay, so everyone knows. So ideally would would be great to have that done by Friday, if possible, most of the most of it is already there so it's not. It's not a huge, I mean, it's not a lot of work I think we just need to fine tune it and maybe find a few more examples. And then related to that, whenever we have advocacy speaking opportunities right I mean, of course we want to talk about when I have you talk participate in tech tech talks were like that is not really a take but whenever we talk about our work. It is really like every opportunity is really an opportunity to raise awareness and recruit allies right so when you prepare a talk. First think about who's the audience right and what information can you give them that will empower them right to push for a more accessible world right. So the desired outcome is right, we should do ABC right like they should say like oh this is a great idea we should do this at our company. The undesired outcome is like oh yeah that sucks, but there's nothing I can do about it right like like tell them something that is not ideal but if they don't have it's not something that they can do or change it's interesting but it's not really empowering them to do to help bring change that's why I think thinking about who you're talking to, and what kind of information you're providing is really important right because it's like you need you want to empower them, and then really pick your main take right like again, as with the messaging dock right if you push a put a lot of information on that they're not they're going to be overwhelmed they're not going to remember everything right so people can only remember so much so really right decide what are your key takeaways and try to like make sure that comes across clearly right. And then always end with a call to action right again this is our opportunity to recruit allies, like sometimes you go to a talk and say oh this is great but then you go and you forget about it like ask something about them right like, what can they do to help or cause give them something actionable. And sometimes there's not something. It can be something really concrete but sometimes there is nothing that concrete so if you cannot find something that concrete just be aware. These are the issues be aware, call out if there is something is inaccessible, you know, if you see an event and they're not doing ABC. Tell them right like just having people who kind of understand why it's important out there working like like walking out in the world, you know there are so many more hearing people of course right so if they can go and spread the word and just point out if something are inaccessible. That's a huge win right so I just, and that's like that. A lot of that is in the messaging doc as well but yeah the point is, basically when you're preparing those talks, really see this. It's not just like a great opportunity it's like, it is a chance to really is awareness and recruit allies so that's trying to be strategic and make sure that we have we think about those things who's the audience. What should they take away and what are we asking from those are kind of key building blocks. Any questions. Okay, deep says great destiny says you covered everything perfectly. Yeah, and that's why the messaging deck, the messaging doc is important too right because that's kind of what the idea is it helps you formulate those things right and and it's a tool to help through like, yeah, I don't achieve those goals and and then just a quick reminder for everyone please ask your favorite interpreters to sign up for the interpreter database the link is in the doc. I don't think I've seen from everyone. So, that's all I had destiny says, any questions, we have just a few minutes left any concerns, any, anything to share from the group. God says I do have something but I can wait. And if no one else has any questions I'll go ahead and ask I don't want to be the only one taking the floor here. I want to open it up for anyone else first. Okay, so that's destiny. Okay, so with zoom the chat will disappear once we close out this meeting and there's a lot of great information and links that are in the chat. How can we make sure we save those destiny says it's all within the agenda. Everything can be found there. Whatever links, put it on to the agenda. It's already there. So if you have any questions as well you can reach out to Scott about helm. You have any questions about cube con or anything that we just discussed today. It can all be found there in the agenda, all of the links have been saved there. Okay. Anything else. Milad says any others with any other questions. No, you can go ahead. All right. Regarding the booth for people. When they come to interact. I'm wondering if there can be some kind of recording done or video for people to watch on YouTube, maybe signing some simple signs if we could upload such as that signing different specific signs. Is that allowed or no. I just wanted to put that idea out there. Destiny says Catherine do you have I see your hands up. Yeah, so there is a monitor. I actually forgot to mention that like we should like have a laptop. So I may have sometimes mine, but like, there's a monitor. I will, I think I should have like, like an adapter to put to plug in the monitor, a laptop in the monitor, and we can put stuff on there. Yeah, so I was thinking to have like a little slide or something calm chat with us or you know like some stuff that we can have we can also have a video that you, you know, like, yeah, whatever you think Destiny says I have an idea I oh I think what he's meaning is to videotape our interactions with people from the booths is that allowed to have a video made from the interactions at the booth and then have that turned into a YouTube video to give a snapshot of what went on at cube calm. So we want to know are we allowed to videotape our interactions with just regular people passing by. Is that what you were asking Mila. Yes, that's right. I just want to share my experience and give you another perspective through all of my travels traveling the world, presenting and interacting with deaf and hearing audiences a lot of hearing people specifically are very interested in sign language sometimes it's the first time seeing sign language. So I video capturing the video of that and having that recording. So that people can see signing and just that whole process seeing the interaction between deaf and hearing people it just helps to raise awareness and spread that knowledge quickly. I've just seen personally how much these social interactions when recorded and put out on the internet can just how far how viral they can go. So maybe we can designate a specific language to ask the person before we film them, or maybe if they're wanting to learn, say one word or specific terminology or a phrase like have a nice day and sign language, we can teach them that short phrase. Just, it'll only take a minute of course depending on their, their signing knowledge or fluency already. We can film that and then they can go home and share it however they like with anyone. So that'll just help spread the knowledge, spread awareness. Destiny says, yeah, did you have something to share. Yeah, so I think, so basically I was going to say, people do that all the time. Like, a lot of people go there and do their little own videos and put them on social media so you can definitely do that, or we can definitely do that right. People also do their own little interviews, you know, like maybe. I don't know if that's something you would be interested in me like, but you know, like just go with one of the interpreters and ask people saying, Hey, did you know that people like what do you think, you know, like do little interactions just go and talk to people. You know, and ask them what do you think about all these new changes. I don't know, like, it could be a mix of showing people how they learn to sign and also just asking people questions, you know, that will be awesome. And that's a video that we can put on YouTube and the CNCF would definitely, you know, share again. And, and so yeah, I think that sounds like a fun thing that would raise awareness and shows. Again, deaf people at the conference, right. I think we have one minute to go. Also, I wanted to let Mila let you know that yeah, you can video, even some people filmed me and they sent me the video, you know, in my inbox and they say, Oh, I saw your video. I really enjoyed your presentation so just know that even without people's awareness there's people videotaping each other all the time. And you'll see things online so yes just know that that's an expectation and that's normal. Nothing to worry about. I really want to be able to show that some people who are hearing and don't have any knowledge of sign language or whatever that that they can just be exposed to sign language and have that sort of support while they're trying to learn a little something you know I think people think oh it takes a long time to learn sign language but you can learn a little bit in a minute. So you don't have to learn everything all at once you can just learn something, you know, and then they can go home and grow their knowledge about sign language or or the culture should they care to do so. So anyway, thank you everyone for coming. Appreciate you for being here and nice to meet Scott and Dennis really nice to see you.