 Good afternoon. My name is Michael Collins and I'm the Director-General of the IIEA, the Institute of International and European Affairs here in Dublin. I'm really delighted that so many are joining us today for this very special IIEA event as we marked the 30th anniversary of the foundation of the Institute back in 1991. This afternoon I have the great honour to extend a very warm welcome indeed to two people, Bertie Hearn and Tony Blair, who as Thyshuk and the British Prime Minister have assured their place in the complex history of these islands. Their great shared legacy is of course the Good Friday Agreement, which underpins the peace that Northern Ireland enjoys today. For six years serving in the Department of Thyshuk, I worked closely with the Thyshuk and with the Prime Minister and saw at first hand how together they managed the peace process and ultimately also developed in their time on precedented levels of cooperation, understanding and goodwill between London and Dublin. So we've a lot to talk about about the past, about the present and particularly also about the future. As usual we welcome your questions which you can send to us now or at any stage throughout this event using the Q and A function on your screen and we'll get to as many of these questions as we can in the time available. This event is on the record and you're also welcome to tweet about this event using the hashtag IIEA30. So let me turn if I may before we see the questions come in, let me turn straight away please if I may to you Tony Blair and then just to maybe pose a question to you which I'll also pose to Bertie Ahern but you and Bertie Ahern were in office together for some 10 years and in fact your times in office were absolutely in parallel with one another. You obviously built up a great level of understanding and trust throughout that time. To what extent was this important in driving the peace process? Michael first of all thank you very much for inviting me to the IIEA event and let me thank you as well for your enormous contribution to the peace process because I remember you well in those years and how assiduous you were in managing what was a very difficult time. And the truth of the matter is I mean this good Friday agreement and the peace process would never have happened without Bertie Ahern and without his personal involvement, personal commitment and the characteristics he brought to the negotiation which we're always trying to find a way through preparedness to look forward and not back, to respect our history but not live in it and to negotiate what were extremely and remain extremely difficult things with you know a great amount of wisdom and intelligence and humor all of which we needed many points during this. So yes it was it was one thing you learn about politics when you're operating at the highest level is that even if you're at the highest level it's the very basic human relationships that often matter the most and I think not just with Bertie with others in the course of the peace process the personal relationships and the ability to gain you know strong elements of trust and understanding were absolutely essential because we were dealing with very very sensitive issues and you know that the history of British-Irish relations is you know well extremely fraught and for both of us therefore we were often addressing different sometimes diametrically opposite audiences and that personal relationship was very important in allowing us to do that whilst not losing that trust and confidence and you know I honestly I say this to people always when they ask me about my time as prime minister that I really could not have had a better partner and better colleague and and ultimately a better friend in that negotiation than Bertie. Thank you just if I could come to you maybe with a similar question Bertie and you had to manage obviously the complexity complexities of the peace process from this end here and it was part of the great strength of the process that the two governments indeed were able to work so closely together the cat always be always have been easy to agree I mean there as Tony said there were many complex difficult challenging issues and how would you characterize your relationship with the Prime Minister? Well Michael it's good to see you and delighted to join with you today and good luck for all of these events that are around the anniversary. I think the great thing working with Tony Blair for me was that I think even in opposition we have built up a relationship that we trusted each other and both of us had committed in that summer of 1997 that if elected and his election was a bit more assured of mine because even in the norm's majority I had to work my way through through a coalition to get some extra support but you know we had decided that we were going to give this thing a real shot and one side couldn't do that I mean the other side could not do that it was the fact that Tony was prepared to put in a huge personal commitment to put in enormous hours I mean we always think on our side how busy we are the reality is the you know the UK is a huge country it's huge international involvement and you know to get the Prime Minister to dedicate himself to give the hours that he did that winter of 97 into spring of 98 at the stay at the talks for that entire week and just to be over it every weekend I remember fondly those phone calls to checkers those phone calls in the car to Tony when he was moving around and you know I think by the time we got to Good Friday I remember George Mitchell and we think of him today I know he's battling some health issues but you know he said well that's the end of that bit now you have to implement it and I think Tony and I realised that for her another nine years we have to do that but I think the friendship I'm a treasure for my life the rest of my life the friendship I had we had some fun too but we worked at EU level closely we worked internationally closely but I think for the island of Ireland the fact that he was prepared to give the commitment at the time the energy his enormous skills and that's really what got us across the line. That's excellent so you know it's now 23 years since the agreement was was was signed 23 years have passed nothing challenges on the way there's been successes there's been disappointments I suppose there's been frustration Tony I mean how would you see the state of affairs today I mean would you have a sense that the Good Friday agreement has fulfilled all of your expectations are some of your many of your expectations? Well I think that the Good Friday agreement was was just the beginning as Bertie was saying a moment ago and then after that there was a long process of implementation and I would say that you know for the nine years following the Good Friday agreement until when 2007 we finally got the the executive up and running properly and sustainably I mean it was agonizing all the way and there were constant problems and difficulties decommissioning police reform um criminal justice reform the the thing was it required constant management and focus and you know obviously it's look around the world as I know very well now people regard the Good Friday agreement as an immense achievement and it was but in the end you know it takes a long long time for you know old problems and elements of enmity to disappear and I think you know we come obviously now we're we're in a new and difficult situation um but you can never rest with with this and I think the one thing that I learned during the course of dealing with Northern Ireland over all the time I was Prime Minister was that you know the moment you were you were complacent the thing could slip away again and therefore I think today when you know as a result I think principally of Brexit but also of other issues the the Northern Ireland situation is back on the agenda you know a lot of problems and things that we have to sort out I mean it just it just goes to show that you know you can't you've got to keep up the pressure to to allow those changes to deepen and take root and it's it's not easy and it will take time and and I think that um you know it's been very frustrating for for me obviously because you know I can see over this past period that a lot of those tensions have now come back to the surface again and are being debated in ways that are you know pretty difficult to resolve frankly so I I mean did it look it it exceeded our expectations in the sense that you know it worked as an agreement we managed at least for a considerable period of time to get um a reasonably stable government in Northern Ireland it worked to that degree but there was always even without the recent problems there was always going to be a lot more to do and now really is in as a result of Brexit and all the issues over the Northern Ireland protocol we now have a lot more to do in order to make sure that it's it's safety is guaranteed. Would you see Bertie it's safety being threatened currently and how I mean what was your your your sense of the agreement after these 23 years has it met your expectations I know a lot more work to be done I'm sure but um I mean it does it does it does it cause a level of frustration with you and maybe just also if I may Bertie to what extent um do you would you have a concern that the current generation if I may call them that you know maybe uh has maybe less or full appraisal of what it took to bring about the peace that was secured in the 1990s. Yeah I think the probably the great success of the agreement in the early years is that it ended violence I mean there has been some events but you know thankfully not much there's been some protests but again not much and I think that that has been the very successful part have we still got peace walls have we still got differences um we still got antagonism and sometimes uh does um raw hatred and unfortunately some of those things that I would have hope would have drifted away uh over a decade or two I have not done so and as I always say Michael the one thing that Tony and I were always talking about was the process that it was a process was an ongoing process and that this would live on probably for many many decades after the one thing we never talked about was um what would happen if the UK or Ireland left the European Union and I think we spoke about everything else from May to was Ed and back and up and down but we never thought of that and quite frankly that has that has created the the real tensions over the last few years and you know without getting into a blow by blow we we thought that you know that we were true that we thought the protocol uh had got the UK into the tunnel which ultimately led to the full withdrawal agreement uh and then even this very day as as we speak um Lord David Frost is is indicating that does he doesn't see the protocol being part of the UK policy going forward so you know this is a real tension and unfortunately that then uh creates the position that the politicians believe that in somewhere another they can move this aside and you know that can't ignore the fact what will EU leaders will say this is the integrity of the single market so things now that are outside of what Tony and I negotiated start taking over and I think that's going to be the problem for the immediate months ahead. Yeah and Tony I mean 23 years later I mean you've got to some extent a new generation of politicians in Britain many of whom basically weren't around for for the troubles indeed and indeed for the what what you achieved in the 1990s in particular I mean is there a is there maybe a lack of full appreciation of the dimensions of what it took to bring about that that agreement and and what it still takes to protect it? Yes I think there is I mean I think the problem is number one a lot of people don't remember what the troubles were really like you know when our new schedules would be dominated often many days of a week and by you know terrible tragedies and acts of violence in Northern Ireland I mean it was a very very difficult situation for years and years and years and so yes I think people that's now a distant memory for people and I do think there's always a risk when you when you create a a peace agreement you settle everything down the situation's calmer and and the risk always is I think this was less with us because we've negotiated the original agreement to therefore we're constantly on the watch to make sure that it was sustained but I think there is a risk that politicians got to take the Good Friday Agreement for granted and thought well this is just a way of things and the truth is there are still issues that you need to resolve and then of course this whole new dimension as a result of Brexit and the Northern Ireland protocol has created additional real problems and I think it's also meant that some of the issues that we weren't able to deal with because you know there's still segregation in Northern Ireland we still have a situation where I think fewer than 10% of the children go to mixed schools so you've still got a lot of social and economic issues that have have got to be reckoned with and the trouble is you know those those issues are always potentially going to rise the surface and cause real problems when they then get linked with with the issues that are around you know the constitutional questions and look the problem very simply with the the the protocol now is that you know it's an inevitable consequence of the fact that the UK voted to leave Europe we took Britain out of the single market and the customs union and then because the external border of the European Union then became the border between North and South and Ireland it was always going to be a huge problem and there was never any way out of that and so that's the reason why this the protocol was negotiated and it's it's extremely difficult and so you've got some of these some of these long-standing issues social economic you know the context of the conflict that is elements the conflict that's still there and then you've got this this new addition of of a constitutional challenge that the Brexit situation brings about so I think you know what what I constantly urge the government today is to realize that if you if you want to protect the Good Friday Agreement you've got to work at it hard you've you've got to be prepared to really devote time to it and you know with the best will in the world that can't just be left to the Secretary of State it's also got to engage the interest and attention of the Prime Minister and the whole of the government because otherwise you know what what we have built up with a a lot of hard work and effort is going to be a risk yeah I think we'll come back to if we may to the protocol issue and maybe issues around Brexit a little bit more later on but I see there's an early question in around one of those unresolved issues which is if I may put it to you Bertie the legacy issues again most recently manifest I suppose in the in the in the coroner's report on the valium or three killings back in 1971 so indeed some of the issues many issues several issues were not resolved on the day in 1997 some of them have been resolved since but a question from John Cushingham a former leader of the the Alliance Party at MEP how do both speakers believe the legacy issues should be addressed so Bertie could I put that one to you first well I mean I think from the day we negotiated the Good Friday Agreement we've been trying to deal with the legacy issues and there were a number of events that happened early early on and Tony agrees that we would deal with the Bloody Sunday issue and we had a long detailed inquiry that was successfully concluded in so far as I think the relatives appreciated that it didn't bring back anybody that was killed we know that and it didn't solve all the problems of those who were injured but I think it was a a decent genuine attempt to deal with it then we looked at some of the other cases and we made some progress on that and then after our time that the the governments and the parties in the north agreed to storming house agreement back in seven years ago now I accept that if the storming house agreement was as perfect as everybody genuinely tried to make it at the time then it probably would have been implemented now the fact is it isn't but the way to resolve that Michael is for the governments and the parties to sit down and see where it's not working and see what changes that they they have to make and there's a lot being written in recent days about that but I think it if storming house agreement is fairly good it maybe it's some nuancing that that is required to deal with it but at the same time as you were calling like we I put a lot of time into the Dublin manor and bombings as some of the other bombings that took place in border towns nobody was prosecuted on that but we had two eminent chief justices or Supreme Court judges Justice Hamilton and who spent many years on it then followed down again so there was a lot of work done on that I don't think that can be done for every single case I don't think you can take 40,000 cases and deal with them all to the same extent so there has to be a process of dealing with that and and that has to be worked out in the storming house agreement and you know one of the things just to quickly add like what Tony was saying it I'm delighted to say that the two governments had a meeting the other day but more importantly that there is a British Irish intergovernmental conference the reason Tony and I put that into agreement was that the kind of partnership and connectivity between the two governments that we had established for a decade would continue on and you know there hasn't been a British Irish intergovernmental conference in the life of either the government here or the British of this British government so I think these issues need to be sorted out and when they have their meeting which we've been pushing for some time I understand it's in June but they need to look at these issues and not ignore them and not let them drift any further. Tony do you think there's room for I mean it wasn't done at the time but there's a lot of talk about it's some sort of retrieval like in South Africa in terms of dealing with legacy issues issues from the past would anything have been achieved by that and maybe why didn't we do something like the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission? Well I think it's it's it's worth exploring all of these options because people you know you're trying to you're trying to deal with two problematic and sometimes conflicting emotions one is to try and put the past behind us but the other is to understand the suffering and the heartache that people have gone through and and their desire to know the truth about what happened and you know we you know we did try and resolve this when we were in office and and you know frankly we found it impossible to do it and the Stormont House agreement was in an attempt to to do it also and so I think you've got to keep searching for this um because although in one sense it's it's very easy to say well you know look just let's put the past behind us and move on it for for a lot of the the families who were and so many were who were touched by the troubles and and lost the ones that they love and in circumstances where they don't know what happened to them you know this is this this pain I think never goes away and one of the reasons look I remember when we set up the Bloody Sunday Inquiry and you know I had a lot of internal opposition to it a lot of internal opposition and I have to say as it was going on I was you know at times worried about how it would come out and and how we would handle it but in the end it actually did serve its purpose because it it it allowed people to to find out the truth of what happened and that is you know that is an important part of allowing people to grieve in the right way so I don't I mean I think there's no easy answers to this and I don't want to cause any more difficulty of the government than what they're in already but I would just stress this the the thing that Bertie just said a moment ago the British Irish Intergovernmental Conference was an important element of the agreement and honestly all of these issues are easier dealt with if the British and Irish governments are working closely together I mean I I can say throughout the whole of that the the 10 years of my premiership the ability to have that close relationship with my Irish counterpart and our two governments to be pretty knitted together when trying to deal with issues of immense sensitivity it was an enormous protection for us and and an enabler to find solutions so I think I'm if this conference is coming up soon I think it it can't happen soon enough and I think it's it's in that context you're able often to find solutions to these problems. So just a question here from Daniel Murray who's from the business post an Irish weekend newspaper and maybe to you first Bertie he says as a result of Brexit do we need to rethink elements of the Good Friday Agreement or create a new agreement on the politics of a shared island post-Brexit in the process of reaffirming the Good Friday Agreement for a new generation so I suppose the issue is and there has been a little bit of chatter not at governmental level but there has been a little bit of chatter around I suppose about whether the the the the agreement is there for all time and the shape and form that it was negotiated in 98 or is there capacity to to look at that or is that a good idea even? No but Tony and I had never any problem about that Michael as you well recall in 98 when the agreement was ratified we put a review clause into it and after the 2003 election where the DUP and Sinn Fein came to prominence then we started engaging with the Sinn Fein leadership and the DUP leadership which led to the October 2006 agreement in St Andrews and that was a review and that was difficult negotiations as well and that allowed us to continue one of the institutions to be formed in May 2007 so there's never any problem in looking at to see where we can nuance it and the idea of negotiating or changing it would be lunacy and all that you need to do is to tweak it wherever you need to tweak it I sometimes worry and I'm not saying it about Daniel but I sometimes worry that some of the things I hear about the agreement that would really be good for some of the current population to read the full agreement because they make comments about things that are actually in the agreement so but I have no problem about people looking from time to time and seeing if there are things that we can go but I really do feel Michael that since 1997 I had the biggest issue that we faced and we faced lots of issues I really do think it's it's Brexit because it's creating problems within political parties it's creating problems within loyalism within unionism it's creating tensions economically wise and really a handle on this has to be got on too very quickly because if we just keep on shouting across the water at each other it's not helping. Okay just to have I see a question in here from Bobby McDonough former colleague of course I'm a little too Bertie and perhaps to you Tony as well but what Bobby says Brexit represents a large towards unilateralism and quote taking back control how dangerous is unilateralism for Northern Ireland and more globally Tony? Yeah well it's look the my view is that the world we live in requires countries to cooperate and and you do that not because not because you want to diminish your own national interest but because you believe that cooperation enhances it so look as you know I was strongly opposed to Brexit it's happened it's there and I think with goodwill and some trust it is possible to find a way through and the problems caused by the Northern Ireland protocol in the in the Brexit agreement but the trouble is you know that trust in goodwill is in pretty short supply between the UK and Europe I mean I've had these these conversations also with the current t-shock and you know my institute published a quite a good paper just a short time ago suggesting how we might better bridge the the gaps between the sides but you know the origins of the problem are just very very simple inevitably there was going to be a problem along the border and so the for the European Union of course has got to protect the integrity of the single market and if the we want to keep the border open that means naturally a different relationship between Northern Ireland and Europe than the one between Britain and and Europe so far as aspects of trade are concerned so I think that it is possible to find a way through but it will require us to to cooperate and work strongly together and you know one thing I think the spirit with which you approach that and this is really goes to the point about unilateralism you know we would never have had the Good Friday agreement if I played to my audience simply and Bertie played to his audience simply right so one of the real challenges of leadership is the degree to which you're prepared ultimately to say to some of your own people and your own supporters look this is worth spending political capital on and even though there may be an easy and popular solution we're not taking it and the Good Friday agreement not just myself and Bertie but you know all of those people who were involved in negotiating that and agreeing it all of them at some point in order to make this work had to to be prepared to spend their political capital and be prepared to say look in the interests of cooperation because we have a desire to reach agreement we're prepared to make compromise and concession and you know that is the spirit in which this has got to be approached now and so if we approach it as the UK in just trying to play to those people who are strongly pro-Brexit you know we'll make a big mistake we've got to try and search for a way through and be prepared to do that not in the spirit of unilateralism but in the spirit of common and shared interests and values. Yeah Bertie if I could just come come back to you if I may in relation to a question here from somebody who's well known to both of you your former press secretary Mandy Johnson has a question in asking you no less what would each of you do to resolve the current situation if you were in office? Obviously you have the privilege or the fact is you're not in office we appreciate that but if you were in office today confronted with you know the doubts that the issues in around the protocol I suppose the absence of the reconciliation that you would have hoped for arising from the Good Friday agreement if you were in office today Bertie, is there any first step that you would make to try and ease the situation and to bring it to bring about a sort of a return to greater tranquility? Well I think there are two things one directly on the the British and the the Irish position and the intergovernmental council is the obvious way and and trying to build up you know trust and confidence and solidarity between the teams and it's not necessary for the you know the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister to be meeting every month but you know of terms of quarters they can meet ministers can meet so that was the idea that that's how it was framed and I think that will help and the protocol it's a bit more difficult because it's not our call we have to we just feed in to the to the European system and we're working with with other countries and that's not easy and I know that Simon Colvaney has been doing that as as Foreign Minister very well but there are difficulties because sometimes maybe there are things we would compromise on but Europe won't compromise on but I think you can just try and try to to bring things around but as I understand it Michael I might be wrong in this but it looks as if and I don't want to throw more island on the fire but it looks as if David Foster is more or less saying the way that Europe are trying to operate a protocol is very fine but that the UK are not going to play that game and that's what's in this letter of today if if the news reports are correct on it now that will give the inevitable response from Europe I'm sure and I don't want to spell out but I think that would be but it's fairly obvious and so so therefore this their horse is running away from us and I think the the I think Ireland and Britain need to try and work on that and we have to work through the EU but it's not good and we're at the start of the march and season we have enough attentions we're not for problems and really it requires hands-on dedicate I know we're in the middle of epidemic and I know we've all the other difficulties but this needs some careful handling on all sides. Tony if I could put the same question to you I mean I don't suppose Boris Johnson is calling you looking for advice on Northern Ireland but who were to do so and is there any singular piece of advice that you would offer him at this stage to to count things a little bit? Yeah but I mean I think the advice I would give him is to try and break the operation of the protocol down into the practical parts of it because it's all about the goods that move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland and then Northern Ireland potentially down into the south so you've got to look at you've got to look at the actual facts of what is happening try and work out where for example you know there may well be cases where it's very obvious the rules will carry on being aligned so you you know you may be able to deal with some of these issues in a consensual way but I think the other thing that I'd say is you know sometimes it's one of the things I think we learned with the operation of the Good Friday Agreement as I say because this was we made that agreement but then there was a whole series of other things that have to be agreed after it and sometimes what you need to do is you just need to keep going at talking through all the different issues and doing it really not by public megaphone because that only inflames the situation but doing it in a way which allows you then to try and as you as you've discussed with the Irish government the European Union allows you to see where you might you know you might be able to remove obstacles ease the path towards doing things because you know the Northern Ireland protocol I mean it was negotiated by the same people who are now questioning it so it's it's not as this is not an inherited agreement this was an agreement that was signed and entered into by the very people now talking about it so I think you know it's it's it's going to be very difficult if the UK simply says it wants to cast it aside that's going to be extremely difficult to do because you know it's not as if the issues at the heart of it weren't absolutely obvious at the time that it was negotiated I mean they were absolutely obvious that's why some of us were saying well there's going to be a problem here so I think in those circumstances my my advice would be you know and I think this has it will take the involvement and engagement with the Prime Minister ultimately is that you've got to approach this in a way which tries as I say to disaggregate all the issues find out where there may be common ground and work out some practical solutions because otherwise you'll end up in a situation where there is a complete breakdown and then all of those anxieties that there are about the protocol and the way it operates are just going to deepen and then the thing will become even more difficult to resolve I mean I think it is possible to resolve it by the way having looked at it in some detail myself and I think there are areas where it's obvious there's going to be a common interest in preserving common rules but it requires a lot of patience a lot of hard work a lot of goodwill and a lot of trust and as I say those those latter two things are in short supply right now we're just up against the talk a little bit here so I'm just going to come to I wanted to question so what's the question here from Harry McGee from the Irish Times if the UK government Tony in the unilateral mood were to scrap the Northern Ireland protocol in its entirety where would that leave the situation be a seamless border between north and south and Burtie as well and then I just want to come to one final question if I may in relation to a border pole of which we've many questions come in but maybe Tony first you on the on the question of if the UK government were to unilaterally scrap the protocol is that even an option well I don't I don't see how we can do that I mean we entered into an agreement and so I think that would be I mean that would get an extremely negative reaction I think it would be a big mistake to do that I think what what the government's got to do is it's got to try and work out some practical solutions to it I think they are there to be grasped if we really want to and I think that's best done without trying to put some sort of public pressure on the EU because that's only going to make the EU come out with it with an even stronger defence of its own position so I know I think this this is this has got to be done by patient negotiation you know the British government the Irish government the EU in theory everyone wants the same thing which is that you're you're able to come together and make a proper agreement to keep the border open and to allow the protocol to function so I think that's the best thing for them to concentrate on okay Bertie just to come to you if I may um unless you want to come back in on that the protocol issue and the idea of a of a unilateral abandonment of it but I just want to come because we've many many questions of all the issues the most we've questions on is it on the question of a border poll and um and we're drawing up against the talk here so I just want to just maybe ask the question I did see one in from dermatology from good bodies for example that stock brokers in relation to this but there's many others as well Bertie you first and then then Tony and we're going to really have to wrap up on this particular question but it's the I suppose it's the question of the day and you know under what circumstances should there be a referendum on Irish unity and do you think Tony would the UK government facilitate this but starting with you first obviously it's very topical here it's become topical here and so is this in prospect Bertie well listen it's going to be a big issue and it's going to continue on being a big issue and back when we had the 20th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement that in Queens when Tony was there and Bill Clinton was there George Mitchell I said at that stage I we had made provision for it in the agreement it was clear that someday we would have it that was spelled out but I said then and I say the same today there are three conditions as I see it one that the institutions have to be working and working satisfactory and at that stage they weren't they're up and running for the last 18 months or so but they must continue to run before you could get into into that space the second one you have to do the planning there is not a lot of planning done there are various academic groups and others now doing that and I think that'll help and the third thing I think there has to be some persuasion of at least a reasonably large proportion of the Unionist community that they see this as the way going forward the idea of having a sectarian headcount or having us or them or just pitching one side against the other is not the way to go and so my summary of that Michael is we're some years away from it I hope it does happen but it has to be done carefully and in time okay Tony have you last word on that to you yeah I think there's a wise words from 30 of caution in this particularly at the present time I mean look there's this provision set up the Good Friday Agreement as to how this this this can happen based on assessments of public opinion but you know in the end I think this is the Brexit put the issue back on the agenda in Scotland it no doubts put it back on the agenda in Northern Ireland but I think we've got to proceed with a lot of a lot of caution and according to the terms we've set out the Good Friday Agreement and probably right now and it's it's not very auspicious to to put it high on the agenda let's get out let's get the problems we've got now with the executive Northern Ireland protocol and everything sorted out okay so look I mean we've come to the end of this part of our webinar and I think we've seen something quite special in these exchanges and also got a sense of the capacity and the potential for these islands and particularly for Northern Ireland by London and Dublin working close harmony with one another which was very much a feature of when Bertie Herndon's t-shirt and Tony Blair was Prime Minister so on my own behalf on behalf of the I want to thank you both sincerely we could go on for the whole afternoon and we were only really scratching the surface and we always knew we're going to get so far but I think we got an idea of really the your views on current issues and obviously the sincere view which you hold these views as well so we very much appreciate it but before we we adjourn this event I do however now want to turn to to you to introduce to you Tony and the Bertie the winner of the IIEA Brendan Halligan emergency emerging scholar essay competition the winner of which we announced yesterday and she is Lisa Claire Whitten who's a PhD student in Queen's University Belfast whose essay on Ireland Europe and Northern Ireland was chosen by a panel of independent judges and we're very very pleased that Lisa Lisa Lisa is with us but before I hand over to Lisa I just know that the Tony and and you first Bertie maybe would like to offer your congratulations to Lisa Claire yeah sorry go ahead Tony go ahead Lisa well done that's and I I'm looking forward to reading it this weekend and should often be some interesting clues on the conversation we've just been having but well done that's a great achievement Tony we limited the competition to 1500 words so I sure Lisa Claire could have written more extensively but you get an idea of the quality of the work from from within the 1500 words so so Bertie just maybe just a word from you before we hand over to Lisa Claire yeah Lisa Claire Mike warmest congratulations to you and when done to win an essay competition call after the great Brendan Halligan who I knew so well it's a great tribute to you and and a great honor as well so and and congratulations as well you told me earlier on that you managed to get your PhD thesis in as well so congratulations and I hope you're going to enjoy the summer ahead okay thank you both so listen I wanted Lisa Claire I want to bring you in now by May and first of all again to congratulate you on behalf of everybody at the Institute I was at the the final adjudication panel I can tell you it was it was pretty pretty demanding stuff at the expectations that they had and obviously you won out at the end of the day so and now maybe I'd just like to bring you in if I could maybe to talk about your essay and and its central theme of course thank you Michael and Prime Minister Blair and Tisha Gerhard for your kind words and thank you to everyone at IIEA for extending the great honor of being the first recipient of the Brendan Halligan Emerging Scholar Essay Award it truly is a privilege to be associated in this small way with the work and legacy of Brendan Halligan I believe T. Shuck Martin in his address yesterday described him as a guiding light which I thought a powerful and fitting metaphor I was asked to say some to make some brief remarks about the essay I submitted but if I may I first wanted to just say something as a direct beneficiary of the piece so far discussed at today's event as mentioned I'm currently based at Queen's University in Belfast and zooming in today from Northern Ireland where I was born and raised I have some very early childhood memories of Army checkpoints and bomb scares but the vast majority of my life has been lived in post-agreement Northern Ireland this being so I'm given it's very rare I would have the opportunity to do so I wanted to put on record and virtual record my heartfelt thanks to Prime Minister Tony Blair and T. Shuck Brown for their efforts towards and dedication to pursuit of peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland I'm one of the 1.9 plus million people whose lives have been better as a result turning to the essay as mentioned its content and argument was based on a comparison between the peripheral status of Northern Ireland in the accession process of the UK and Ireland to the EEC which became the EU and its pivotal status in the process of UK's withdrawal from the EU Brexit when the UK and Ireland joined the European integration project together Northern Ireland was in a state of severe political instability as the legislative and constitutional processes necessary to formalise accession took place in the two states in 1972 the people of Northern Ireland endured one of the worst years of violence and political turmoil of the tribals yet the worsening crisis here had no noticeable effect on the parallel processes of British and Irish accession fast forward 47 years and as we all know Northern Ireland played a starring role in the Brexit process arrangements eventually agreed by Prime Minister Johnson in the Ireland Northern Ireland protocol substantially differentiate Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK through so generous provisions that established Northern Ireland as a new frontier in EU external relations and further reinforce its particularity as a region of the UK and as a sub-state entity with an exceptional relationship with its nearest neighbour Ireland the essay reflects on what that the stark contrast between the status of the Northern Ireland problem in 1972 and again in 2020 can tell us about the project of European integration generally I shall leave those points for anyone interested enough to read out a later date but in setting out that contrast the essay discussion implicitly begs the question as to what the status of Northern Ireland is and will be in the post-Brexit era I don't have an answer but I would suggest that this is the most important question to be addressed in any discussions of peace and its future on the island of Ireland and between these islands the challenges facing post-Brexit Northern Ireland are considerable the peace here is fragile and it is incomplete however the fact that the starting point for the conversation this afternoon was how that peace can be preserved and how it can be improved is still I would argue reason for us to hope that the difficult issues of today can be overcome thank you very much thank you very much Lisa Claire and thank you Tony indeed and thank you Bertie we're going to draw proceedings to an end here thank you indeed Lisa for sharing that plenty of food for thought there and we look forward to putting it on our website very shortly and with that I want to draw proceedings to an end to thank the Taoiseach former Taoiseach former Prime Minister very very much our events in the IEA will be continuing in the afternoon we've another event at 3.30 dedicated to Northern Ireland chair by Durval McDonnell you're all welcome to stay those of you who are joining us but the rest Taoiseach Bertie Hearn former Taoiseach Lisa Claire Prime Minister Blair thank you very much indeed that was really really important that we should have had this conversation and and thank you for joining us thank you very much indeed