 Who has the better lifestyle? I mean, this is even a question. I get bit, I get defecated on, I get urinated on. Oh, here we go, yeah. Welcome back to the channel, everybody. For those of you who are new around here, my name is Michael, I am a board certified diagnostic and interventional radiologist, and this is my older brother, who is a... Board certified veterinary neurologist, which in vet world means neurosurgeon as well. So he is a board certified veterinary neurosurgeon neurologist, and on today's video, we are going to be kind of doing a comparison between the path between human medicine and veterinary medicine. So who better to come on for this video than my own brother? Who happens to be a veterinarian? So let's go ahead and get into the video. We're gonna touch on a few things, touch on some differences, some similarities, and everything in between. So let's go. Like I said, in that quick intro, we're gonna be asking Jim, Dr. Cellini as well, some questions, and also go subscribe to his channel at DVM Cellini, Cluzoo. I stole the Dr. Cellini and the family, even though we are two out of the three Dr. Cellinis in our family, just all of our brothers, our doctors. Nonetheless, go subscribe to his channel, DVM Cellini, I'll put the link up here, or somewhere. Basically what I'm going to do is ask him some questions and get some insight into the veterinary field as it relates to human medicine and... I don't know what I'm saying. Okay, and at the end of this video, we will give you financial advice. So we are going to touch on different topics in veterinary medicine, how to get into vet school, all this other stuff, and how it compares to medicine in the human world. Really, all you need to know is that Michael and Adriana, as they filmed the episode before, they drive outies. My wife and I drive Subarus. There's the difference. Let's get into the first question. So question number one for the veterinarian. How long is schooling to become a veterinarian? Depends on what you define as school. So the official veterinary school is four years? After undergrad. After undergrad, yeah, so you go to undergrad and I don't know if that's gonna take you three, four, in Michael's case, five years. But veterinary school takes four years, at least at the University of Georgia where I went and graduated in 2009. The first two years are just purely didactic, pure, just like study for like written exams, anatomy tests, physiology, all the good stuff that you know about. Pure, just didactic, nonstop test taking. Really, the third year, you start to do like, kind of like more open ended elective type stuff where you kind of get to spend time on a little bit more narrowed in focus to what you want. For me, the end of the third year, we started on our actual clinical rotations and then the whole fourth year was just all clinical rotations. All right, so his is four years of undergrad or however long it takes you, plus four years of vet school. Five for him. Like four and a half. By the way, I was an athlete. What do you do? Takes a little longer. Play Call of Duty an entire semester. Okay, anyways, so it takes four years of vet school. It's the same as in human medicine where it takes four years of undergrad or college or however long it takes plus four years of med school the exact same way, essentially, okay. Yeah, and you can pretty much major in whatever you want in undergrad. I don't know where you're gonna ask me that. Oh yeah, yeah, I was gonna ask you that. Okay, so a lot of people ask me like, what should I major in in undergrad? You can really major in anything you want. Really all veterinary school asked, at least for the most part, is just a certain number of prerequisites that you have to do. Like certain like levels of biology, for instance, and chemistry, and stuff like that. So I know people that majored in like business and other kind of like industrial engineering type stuff. And I went to undergrad at Georgia Tech and there was all sorts of like crazy engineering and science and math degrees there. I don't know anybody that went to veterinary school probably because there was a lot of smart people there. But a lot of people went to medical school and they were not necessarily majoring in like biology purely. There was a lot of engineering and even like I knew a guy that was majoring in computer science that ended up going into medical school. So it's similar to med school where a lot of people do major in science majors. But you don't have to. Yeah, like you're not gonna be like a Renaissance literature major and go into veterinary school just cause like nobody's gonna actually do that. But really all you need is the prerequisites. You don't need an, I actually know a few friends of mine from my class who did not have an actual undergrad degree when they started veterinary school. They finished their undergrad degree as part of their first year of veterinary school, believe it or not. After college, do you have to take an admission test to get into vet school? Yes and no. Back when I did in 2005, we had to take a GRE and you had to get a certain score on it and I have absolutely no idea or remember what that score was. Many schools back when I was applying would let you take the MCAT and like replace a GRE with an MCAT and then there used to be actually a VCAT. Why would you do that? I have no idea. I think that some people at that stage in their career they're trying to just apply for everything and they don't know exactly what they wanna do and they've just taken the MCAT. So I guess, you know, the people figure like, if you took that, then I mean you're gonna be smart enough to get into veterinary school. Yeah, there used to be a VCAT, believe it or not, which I don't think is a thing anymore. Yeah, so I think they got rid of that from the most part. You took the GRE though? Yeah, the GRE and yeah, that was it. Okay, so that's basically the same too. So you have to take an admission test to get into medical school as well. You obviously have to take the MCAT for the medical college admission test. I think that's what it stands for. Yeah. Yeah, so same thing. So two for two, same, same. Yeah, okay, let's do the question number three-ish. Is it harder to get into vet school than med school? Do you know if it's up your head? I don't think that answers as straightforward as people say it is. I mean, I'm gonna Google it. All right. We'll give you your thoughts, what do you think? So there are, I made a video about this link. I mean, now you're putting the links on my channel. There's a myth out there that veterinary school is harder to get into because there's so few of them. And while that is true, there's also a lot less applicants going into veterinary school compared to medical school. I think, I don't remember the exact number, but- You have to try lightly here. You know, people are gonna be- I know. They'll be really angry in the comments if you say vet school is harder to get to. I know, I'm gonna be a hashtag. I think there was like 50,000 med school applicants last year or something. There are a lot, yeah. Whereas in vet school, I think it was like a fifth of that. Somewhere around like 10, 12,000, something like that. So I don't know if that ratio completely cancels out compared to the number of vet schools because there's only about 30 to 40 veterinary schools in the country. Again, I don't have the exact numbers in front of me. I was gonna say, this is a, I mean, this is from Reddit. So take it with a grain of salt. I can't find anything quickly. Basically saying that there's so few, there's 1,500 applicants, there's probably more now, this is 2019, for 200 spots versus medical school is way higher than that. Yeah. That's probably why it is harder to get into. Yeah, there's just so fewer seats. It's kind of just like how interventional radiology was harder to get into two years ago as a specialty because there were only like 30 spots in like over 1,000 people applied. So it's just a numbers game. Yeah. And I think too, I don't think people factor in, like what you really have to look at is the credentials of the applicants for both vet school and medical school. It would not surprise me at all if the average medical school applicant had like a higher like GPA, GRE, MCAT scores, all that sort of stuff compared to veterinary school. I don't know that for a fact, but like if that's true, then I would say, well, I'm competing against like way, way, way more competitive people. And thus, that would be more competitive even though the numbers don't work out. So I don't really know the answer. Nobody's really done a full analysis of this yet. So to summarize, we don't know. We don't know. Okay, good talk. Let's do the next one. Just go to whatever school you want. So, and then fourth is question is the, I don't know if you know this. Okay. Does it cost more? I probably don't. Does it cost more to attend vet school versus med school? No. Well, wait. I think it might be the same. I'm gonna Google that while you answer it too. It costs me about $120,000 and that was a little bit of undergrad loan. And that was in when? 2000. That was, I went to undergrad 2001, 2005, took out about $10,000 worth of student loans to pay for like random stuff. I didn't even know what I was doing. I just like- Which is nothing now. Yeah, like our mom just told us to go here and sign up for money. So that's like all I did. And then I saw money show up in my checking account. I was like, oh, this is great. I think Georgia cost me about $110,000 over four years, which is like pennies. Because what is this now? Is that because you're in state? Yeah, being in state helps a lot. Georgia's one of the cheaper schools. I think NC State is the cheapest in-state school. However, when you get into a discussion about some of these for-profit schools or like the island schools like Ross and St. George, you know, I can go, I'm a member on message boards like veterinary financial independence and debt-free vets and even not one more vet, which is a really popular veterinary Facebook group. But people are constantly saying, hey, I just left school with 300, 350, 400, $450,000 worth of debt. And I think honestly from what I can tell, I think it's about the same. Yeah, that's, so I'm glad you said that because as you were talking, I looked up this little Google average cost of four years of veterinary school is around $200,000 for in-state and $275,000 for out-of-state. That's a joke. So then it says human medicine averages $54,000 a year or what, $220,000. Yeah. So I mean, it's the same, sometimes more. So it's same, it's about the same, essentially. But you really have to factor in the earning potential of a veterinarian versus a human doctor, MD or DL. What is the earning? That was my next question. So what is the earning distance? Oh my God. So what is the earning difference between a veterinarian and a MD-DL? Well, do you wanna bust out our W2s here on YouTube and compare? No. I don't talk salary numbers on my YouTube. Well, so I can tell you, and I think this is a pretty common sort of a storyline for most people. But you did a video on this, no? I did, yeah. Are we gonna link that up here on my channel? Thank you. Just put it in front of my head. This is how much money I make, thank you. So my first intern year, I was in South Florida, I made, I don't remember the exact numbers now without referencing, you know, looking back. But it was, my first intern year was about $27,000 for that year. My second intern year was the same. I remember it was pretty much the same. And also working like a hundred, there's no work hour restrictions. No, no. I mean, they worked like mules. No, the first year I got one weekend every three weeks off the whole year. And then my second internship as a neuro-specialty intern, I got one weekend a month off. And I was literally working my 12-hour days. That was like standard. Yeah, they worked. So, I mean a lot. I mean, it comes out to like $3 an hour. Yeah, they worked quite a bit and no time off and they get paid crumbs for how much work they're doing. Yeah, and I have absolutely no idea how these companies and these universities get away with paying people so little. Like honestly, it's beyond me. I don't even know how it's legal to be honest with you. Between them and like when we were talking on my other video, the Dave Ramsey one I did, about the orthodontist who had to pay like $80,000 a year to go to residency. I mean, this is criminal at this point, but it is what it is. It'll change one day. It will change, but like it's insane. But it hasn't changed yet. It's been 13 years since I finished. It needs a reform. Yeah, so basically if you're doing an internship or residency, I would expect to make somewhere in like the 20s to maybe 30s, like $20, $30,000 a year or something like that. There's some places like, you know, where I work now they've really increased in compensation for their interns and that's awesome. Like I really commend the practice owners for that because that is like first in class as far as like offering benefits to interns. Yeah, make some competitive and want people to go there. Yeah, and at the end of the day, like these are licensed veterinarians that are working for you. Like they're bringing in money. Yes, they need help, but they're bringing in untold amount of like gross income for the practice and to pay them $24,000 a year. $3 an hour. Is unbelievable. Yeah, it really is. It's highway robbery. Yeah, so like, again, that gets back to our original point. Veterinarians leave school with a similar amount of loan debt as doctors. And then we get out and if we do an internship or a residency we're making $20,000 to $30,000 a year for four to five years. I mean, it's insane. And then most, I think most veterinarians are similar are probably less than a primary care physician would make. So you have a higher loan burden. The lower salary is just not a good setup for success going forward. So you really have to like pay attention versus at least as human physicians you have a little higher earning potentials. So the loans hurt a little less but they still hurt trust me. Everybody mentions the veterinary suicide rate and all that. There's no way that is helped by having a student loan that you cannot pay off no matter how much you work. Facts. Like if you make $85,000 a year you're not paying off a $500,000 student loan. Next question. Who has the better lifestyle? You as a veterinary nurse Is this even a question? Or me as an interventional radiologist. I mean, is this even a question? I mean, but not from, I know the answer. I know the answer too. I think Michael definitely has the better schedule because first of all, looked at behind, this is where he works half the time. This is his home. My setup? Yeah, he's sitting here working, sitting in a chair and looking at crypto trading on this train over here. You know, meanwhile me, I'm getting- Oh, woe is me over here. I'm getting urinated on by dogs left. Oh, here we go. Yeah. Poor Jim has to go into the hospital. I never do that. I have to interact with patients. Oh, I don't do that either. I get bit. I get defecated on. I get urinated on. I get spoken to very poorly. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know, I- You get that stuff. I don't get that. Yeah, I feel like a soldier leaving a battle every day. Oh, I mean, are you- You guys hearing this? So dramatic. I'm kidding. In summary, I think that I have the much harder, less ideal lifestyle. I'm also a parent and I have a little baby. All right, I'll give you that. And as Michael has witnessed the last 48 hours, that's kind of consumes your energy. I love her though. But it's a lot. But it's a lot. But it is a lot. We do love her. All right, let's do one or two more questions here. Do you regret going to vet school? It depends. Sometimes I do. I'll be perfectly honest with you. On days where I can't fix a problem and I'm watching the dogs suffer because of what we as a society have created through inbreeding and their genetics. And they have a problem that I cannot fix and it causes them permanent disability, pain or death. And I have to deal with that. I wish I could go back in time and never even think about veterinary medicine for the rest of my life. But on other days where I'm able to take a dog from being paralyzed in a excruciating amount of pain and through a procedure or a treatment, get them walking again and have them recheck with me fully walking and wagging their tail, that is a huge upside. And it's just, I have to focus on the patients that I can help more than the ones I can't. I will say, some of the things he does, you know, don't give yourself a big head here. I already have. Some of the things he does, I mean, so you have dogs that come in completely paralyzed and he takes them to surgery from, say they're paralyzed from a hernia disc. He takes them to surgery, removes that hernia disc and like, how long does it take them? They're like running around. Yeah, sometimes a few days, but. Yeah, like, I mean, what is pretty quick recovery? They go from literally dragging their feet or their legs. Paralyzed. Yeah, paralyzed. And then all of a sudden, two days they're like, like nothing ever happened. Not every case is like that. Yeah, well, the good ones. The good outcomes. And please comment below if you want to see more cases with like positive outcomes, because I've tried to have him, you know, do this like thing where he sees a patient and he operates on them and then he shows the recovery and how good the patient does. So comment below if you want to see videos like that and force him to make them because I think they would be pretty cool to see. Okay, I'll just violate hip on nobody's deal. All right, so that pretty much sums up this video. Hopefully you all enjoyed it and you got some good information on the differences and similarities between veterinary medicine and human medicine. And if you have any questions, leave them in the comments below. Make sure you do a subscribe to Jim's channel, DVM Chalini, link up here. And Strud and Mike, channel where you got it as well. And that's pretty much it. Yeah. Hey, I wanted to end the video. How much money do you have? So stupid. Bye.