 Good evening and welcome to the Brooklyn Museum. My name is Lauren Celia. I'm the director of public programs here on behalf of the museum. Thank you. On behalf of the museum I am thrilled to welcome you to tonight's conversation Featuring three trails blazing leaders in our field Natalie Bonwell from the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts Kaywin Feldman representing from the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC and Brooklyn's own Anne Pasternak Yes All three of these leaders have done transformative work in our field and it's truly an exciting and rare opportunity To hear from them each directly tonight The three will engage in an earnest conversation around what it means to expand the historic missions of museums in the present day Grapple with the real challenges of doing so and reflect on the ways museums create impact in our communities We also want to hear from you So you should have received a note card from our public programs team on your way in Please drop your questions down here and we'll be around during the conversation to pick them up Now before I introduce tonight's host and moderator I'd like to thank our programs partners art table the Brunswick group and WNYC our media sponsors who made tonight possible And of course a special thanks to Artnet whose team has really done important work in reporting on women in the arts and of course the entire team at Brooklyn Museum There are a lot of colleagues here tonight from security operations audio visual visitor services press and our public program team A lot of labor and love goes into making these programs possible So please express your gratitude to them on your way out and now to introduce our esteemed moderator During her more than two weeks as a journalist. Sorry two decades My god Two decades as a journalist Allison Stewart has reported for all the major national news networks She began her career as a producer and reporter for MTV news's breakthrough political coverage Choose or lose for what she wanted P body aboard She's also the author of two books first class the legacy of Dunbar America's first black public high school and junk Digging through America's love affair with stuff Allison is also the host of the New York public radio show focusing on arts and culture called all of it with Allison Stewart Which is on weekdays? That's where the week comes in from noon to 2 p.m. On W NYC Please give a warm Brooklyn welcome to Allison Stewart Always wheels. This is gonna be fun. Hi everybody. Good night. Good evening. Hope you guys all having a good night It's it's interesting on the on the website you probably all saw because you got your tickets It said this was billed as women leaders in the arts, but we're gonna take a slightly different tack We're gonna follow to quote Katie Sowers the woman who was the first female football coach to reach the Super Bowl She said I'm not trying to be the best female coach. I'm trying to be the best coach I did want to take a few minutes though to have a little bit of a get-to-know-you Portion so everybody knows who's on stage and where you've all come from So Kaywin first of all I have to ask about your name Kaywin I'm actually bearish now. I actually don't have a good story My parents knew somebody else with the name and decided they liked it and so they copied it I think the other couple had combined two family names, but And then they didn't give me a middle name. They said Kaywin was enough and so You have an undergraduate degree in archaeology How did you go from archaeology to art? The degrees in classical archaeology and so Greek and Roman and I studied at the University of Michigan where there is no Greek and Roman Archaeology there there's museums, but And so I decided that I wanted to have some experience digging even though it wasn't required with the degree And so I spent about five or six summers Digging in central France in a late Iron Age early Roman site and as part of that I then decided to work my way around the former Roman Empire by myself just took a backpack and I was 21 years old and Had all sorts of life harrowing experiences that Help make me the leader. I am today. I learned about decision-making when it involves your own life. It's pretty serious and through the process I had a life-changing moment at the Scroveini Chapel and this Encounter with Giotto's frescoes Changed everything and I became an art historian When did you realize in the course of your career or your life? And I'm gonna ask you all this The power of art for social change Well, I'm actually it was my experience When I saw the Scroveini Chapel I arrived in Padua at the end of a very long journey a three-day train ride through the former Yugoslavia Locked in a train compartment with four French boys and Young teenagers it made a long trip and there was an Italian train strike and we were thrown out at Trieste and I finally made my way to Padua at the end of a day and I was tired and hungry and hadn't had a shower in a couple of days and I sort of thought about Taking a break and then I thought oh no, I've got you know an hour before the chapel closes and so And I tell that story because I think feeling sort of at my lowest ebb Both physically as well as emotionally after all that I'd been through meant that I was very raw and in the chapel I realized today what I experienced was a feeling of wonder and I was overwhelmed by the extraordinary beauty of these 13th century frescoes and I've since done a lot of research on the topic of wonder it's an area of interest of mine and social scientists have done a Lot of research and testing and shown that when people feel wonder and it can be wonder because you're standing in front of the Grand Canyon Or you're at the Scroving Chapel, or you hear a speech by Dr. King Whatever the trigger is but but when we experience the feeling of wonder we actually become less narcissistic We stop worrying about ourselves. We stop looking at our phones And we become we realize that we're connected to something bigger than ourselves it's that feeling of a shared humanity and humans are actually More generous. They're more likely to volunteer and give of themselves when I experience wonder and so That's what happened to me in the Scroving Chapel and despite everything. I've been through I walked out of that chapel Just on air. I was I was Reconnected with a world that I loved and believed in because of the power of art Natalie, when did you realize the power of art for social change? The power of art I would say The importance of art. I think that there is a moment Very important for me. I was I just I lost my father. He was very brutal and I was I Just when I learned because this I was in my garden and there was an extraordinary tree a liquid on bar and it was with fabulous scholars During the fall and I was so sad, but at the same time I realized that I was able to appreciate the beauty of what I was seeing and I understood immediately that art and this aesthetic emotion was much more stronger in fact and Maybe this is why I do a lot of art therapy in my museum When did you realize Natalie that art would be your career? I think it's not just about art. It's about our emotional intelligence. It's about our emotion We talk a lot about our cognition about our intellect brain Artificial intelligence, but I'm much more interested by emotional intelligence and in fact we animals and Sometimes we overreact because of our emotions because we cannot handle our emotion So I think that museum and art music theater, whatever help us to be connected to our emotion and Because we're not robots, but we're human. So it's very important To understand and to communicate thanks to our emotional intelligence. So for me, it is absolutely essential if we want to be 100% Human not just computer We all know you've been at your creative time for 20 years some magnificent, you know Parts of pieces of art that will be in our lives forever. You helped create. So that's a pretty good gig What made you leave it and come to this this job? Well, can you hear me? Yeah, who wouldn't want to be at the Brooklyn Museum, frankly But I would say that I had this moment, you know creative time for those of you who don't know is a really mighty little organization based in New York that helps artists realize their dream public projects and I had in we really care about this intersection between art and social change and I had this experience where my friend Glenn Lowry who's the director of the Museum of Modern Art Asked me the day after the Charlie Hebdo massacre if I would organize a panel at MoMA About the events in Paris Well, why on earth would he ask me to do that? He has a giant staff there and there are a few answers to it. One is that he figured I've had some good ideas To I wouldn't be weighed down by any bureaucracies and three if it backfired He didn't have to fire me. He could just like your staff members like, you know, throw me under the bus and what happened was You know creative time had this so does has this conference called the creative time summit we've got a hundred partners worldwide that have their own mini summits at the same time as the summit in New York and You know, we work on it year after year all year round and about 10,000 people watch it live online At MoMA This panel they couldn't even announce that they were going to broadcast it live because we were waiting for one of the panelists a Comedian named Asif Manvi you guys remember him He was the Middle Eastern Correspondent on the Daily Show and he just wasn't responding whether he was going to give the permission To let us live-stream it so he shows up like every celebrity 50 seconds before them the panel starts And I was like as if can we live-stream it and he said sure but MoMA had not Had not announced that they were gonna live-stream it. You know how many people watched it live around the world About 10,000 and I thought as much as people like to collect complain about their institutions in truth They really care what happens there And so when the board of the Brooklyn Museum asked me if I would be interested in coming I thought if there was ever a museum that was passionate about this connection between art and social change It's the Brooklyn Museum if I had a bigger Operation platform to work with what kind of change could we impact in the world? That was a long-winded answer. I'm so sorry I work in public radio. We like we like full sentences You got him When you took on this role One of the articles I read announcing announcing you in this role have the funniest line about you it said Pastor next emergence as a persistent radical within the museum world Why is it important to be radical now? You know Darren Walker of the Ford Foundation said something very compelling recently he said America is in crisis and therefore our museums are in crisis or something America museums are in crisis because America is in crisis, right? It isn't there's so much pain in our country and our city and our neighborhood in our world right now mass inequality Climate devastation, you know the shortcomings of our challenges to democracy mass migrations the list goes on right great inequities and It's about time our cultural institutions leaned into them and did something proactive about them We're among the few public institutions that people can rely on or should be able to rely on To come together for learning for conversation for debate for even argument That is such an important democratic function of what we all do And I think it's just really important that we keep pushing our institutions forward And again, if there was ever an institution that that was a part of their its DNA. It's the Brooklyn Museum Natalie you mentioned this earlier about the use of art therapy and and how much you believe in it Can you tell us about the work that you're doing around art therapy? In fact The Montreux Museum of Fine Arts, it's a pure near in this field because not only we work with 450 associations, so it's a lot, but also we have an art and health committee Which is presided by the chief scientist in Quebec So we have very very high profile of people from the CNRS in Paris from the Cornelius Foundation in London, etc and we have Not only just art therapy, but also pilot project about Alzheimer eating disorders and Which are followed by true scientists protocols and Investigations, but I think that there is something which is rather unusual. It's the first premiere in the world by the way We have the Medical museum prescriptions. So if you go to see your doctor You can receive a prescription and we do work with the association of the Francophone doctors in Canada and this is a word premiere frankly and so I Think that is so important because for all of us because you are here look in this museum today It's obvious for all of us that art is important and powerful But for so many people it's not as obvious and so for the doctors When we discuss with them they understand that they give another tool To their passions and I can tell you that it works very very well It works so well that we even receive a special grant from our Medical health minister, so it's truly Avant-garde and now what I want to do is to bring this museum medical prescription In the whole province of Quebec and of course in Canada and maybe here in the United States. I don't know Okay, when you were in Minneapolis You had something called the Center for Empathy and Visual Arts Could you tell us about the work that you did there yet? I'm delighted to say that it is very much continuing today so the Center for Empathy really came out of Some of what I was talking about earlier about the feeling of wonder because wonder and empathy are very closely alive because again, they're about connecting with humanity and We grew really interested in thinking about how How the museum might actually work to further empathy for other people in society and the museum in Minneapolis has an encyclopedic collection a general collection so lots of works of art across cultures and time to deal with and the museum partnered with the Greater Good Science Center in Berkeley and where they were actually social scientists doing research about empathy and Just as I was leaving they were developing a great Tool that could be used to actually test People as they arrived at the museum and then again afterwards to see if we were moving the dial at all And so there was an interest in working with children teenagers and adults and also an interest in Sort of the formal tours that we did of the museum Whether that's on a school tour or an adult tour and also just the casual visitor who happens to walk in so we sort of divided Up all those categories with the tests to sort of figure out the hardest part of course is What happens three months after a visit? you know was did you feel more empathic at that moment in the museum and then did it leave and Particularly because so much of the work was dealing with children. It's hard to Stay in touch with children and track them farther on so that was sort of the next phase For the for the work was to figure out how to do longer-term testing, but that was sort of the initiative When you think about a museum's role in terms of wellness our therapy and empathy Is there something that we haven't explored or something that you think might be interesting to explore that? May sound crazy, but could really work something you've been interested in anybody I think that having the those connections with our animal ity and having more close connections and even bridges with natural history or Sciences museum one could be a very interesting because Now look at our knowledge is not so much top-down Look who we think in our new century on a more horizontal level and I think that this kind of a intersection sectional or interdisciplinary method and even thought would be very interesting and Art and sciences are really really should be even more connected on Different not just for our therapy or medicine, but on many other fields So that would be something you in fact. I work on the Darwin exhibition with natural history museums Yes, and art museum. So this is this kind of a cocktail Which will be very innovative and I must say that it's it's a great adventure because when First I proposed to my board to have this art and health committee with science Scientist my trustees didn't want really not convinced They why do you want to bring scientists in the museum because you are a little bit far from your cop business? but now look we can see that it's becoming more and more obvious so working with Natural history museum even with zoo because I think that the zoo will be the museum For the next generations because there is such a big challenge with the biodiversity extension So all kind of a works we can do all together Okay, we'll be very relevant and even for our next generations because we'll be Criticized for what we're not doing right now. So I think that there is a great path for the future Yeah, and you know it I think we all share a commitment to thinking about impact and You know, there are many areas that were all Invested in impact and one of the things we asked are ours. We ask ourselves here is how do we? help support a Vibrant vital local community, especially a community that has so many Rich cultural traditions and also some real challenges with gentrification, etc. How do we really support? Equitable schools and green spaces and affordable housing and job opportunities So these are these are things that we're really actively working on at the Brooklyn Museum Which you may not think is a traditional role for a museum But we feel fueled by our community and we want to give back to our community And when we do well our community does well but our community does well we do well so that relationship is extremely important to us When you think about your roles as leaders For your very for each of your institutions When you think about your digital strategy What does that look like what's important what's important in terms of for the the institution itself But as we're talking about the institution as it relates to the community and it's users and clients I'll jump in there with storytelling. I think we're all with museums trying to become better and better at storytelling and our institutions are repositories of the most remarkable content so it's the collections that we have it's the research that Curators and scholars do and the rest of our staff are experts in all sorts of areas of the work that they do We have incredible libraries Our conservators have remarkable research that they do and One of the things we're trying to figure out now and get better at is to tell those stories because one of the trends In society that I really love is the championing of the geek, you know, we geeks are cool again and we're filled with geeks and Have so many great stories and so I think we're all trying to be better storytellers whether that's through blogs and videos and Perhaps thinking about exhibition catalogs a different way Certainly through websites and digital and then also in the galleries and with people's Phones in their pockets how we might actually connect the more of the works of art For me, I think that we spend our day in front of the screen and frankly there is Something I don't want people to do in the museum is to be in front of the screen. I think that You know that when you are in front of the screen a screen is also a wall and Your empathic brain does not react in the same way when you are in front of a screen There is not the same kind of exchange in term of chemistry so when You are in the museum you want to Avoid this digital virtual reality and you want to experiment art life You know, it's like to make love with someone It's a very different experience when you are with someone in your hand Okay Going with that Natalie so I Think that the museum is the place for art life and in order to have this strong and true genuine emotion Connection, you know, I would just say That you can use technology to strengthen those connections too. So for example, thanks to the Bloomberg Foundation We have an app called ask and so you can be anywhere in the museum Looking at an artwork and you can immediately text an art historian on staff and ask them any question whatsoever Which has been great Not only for our visitors to learn more but also for us to understand what are our visitors interested in? So it changes our wall labels inspires exhibitions, etc. It's a question for all of you what was Something that you came up against that proved to be very Persistently stubborn something that you want to change something that needed to be fixed something that needed to be altered And it didn't look like you were going to do it or lead your way through it But you ultimately did and I want to know what the solution was what the problem was and what the solution was I Have a good story Okay, I have been attacked for cultural appropriation. You know that so In fact, we had one Costume a beautiful dress Imagine by Jean Paul Gautier. In fact, we had this exhibition here at the Brooklyn in 2013 and in our exhibition it was in 2017 and there was a fair and Hairdress with feathers inspired by the indigenous culture and Well, the francophone did not react because in France and especially for Jean Paul Gautier They understand nothing about cultural appropriation, but of course the Anglophone neighbors don't they understood very well and especially in a newspaper. So my problem was or don't I had to remove Hairdress Which I didn't want because I don't think that censorship is Delactic when we cannot explain anything when we hide things or Don't we can do nothing which was not also solution. So in fact, I Invited Someone you may know now in New York. It's a mischief Eagle testicle by Kent Monkman You so maybe the commission which are in the Benhole of the Metropolitan Museum of Arts so isn't an indigenous artist and he has an avatar miss chief Eagle testicle And in fact, we organize the wedding between Jean Paul Gautier Who accepted even if we understood nothing, but he's very kind with Jean with Kent Monkman and They can't imagine an artistic performance Which became in fact a work of art and that was a wonderful answer to a huge challenge with a lot of humor and Thanks to artists Kevin what was an opportunity? I think I'm thinking again back to Minneapolis While I was there we were thinking a lot about Trying to reinvent membership and it's something that we you know in the field often talk about and You know with variation Most studies of museums particularly outside of large metropolitan areas show a general decline in membership across institutions Yet people care about art museums Attendance is often up at some of the institutions where membership declines and And we also look at performing arts organizations where people don't buy as many season tickets They still go but perhaps they just behave differently so the challenge was the different behavior particularly among younger audiences and They still care about the institutions and they engage they just engage in different ways and so trying to think about was there a new model for membership and our sort of bigger concept was we wanted more people under the tent and We wanted to know more about what people what they Attracted them to the institution what they liked doing and then we could be more responsive with a sophistication of Databases now we could actually tailor more of our communications to particular interests of people and Try to engage them in different ways and so that was really a complicated issue and one that The museum ended up responding by creating a free membership at the institution and Developing a much more sophisticated customer relationship management system so that as we had more people participating in lots of ways that we could understand their behavior better and communicate with them in ways that reflected how we understood their interests and I can't say that we solved it perfectly, but that was One that really occupied a lot of the time How about for you and So many So You know, we had a very big controversy over a hire for an African arts position and No matter how I felt about you know misinformation or about the situation at the end of the day There is no denying the very profound impact of structural racism in our society and So, you know When the controversy hit one we had to really listen to community and understand where they were coming from and then two I really before we released a big statement about our thoughts I had to it was a it was a real challenge for the entire team we all had to come together and Talk about our different views and thoughts on this and come up with a joint statement because if we couldn't agree as a diverse staff Then how could we possibly release a statement? What would the implications mean for us as a team and And then we decided that we really were committed to doing better That this was an opportunity for us to continually increase Much more I would say ambitiously and aggressively our works around what we call idea inclusion diversity equity and access and So it really helped us line up paid Internships and programs with historically black colleges and universities the CUNY system here in New York Including our local College of Medgar Evers It really helped us really think about mentorship and pipeline training So there's a whole bunch of things that we've been doing as an institution to really Not waste that opportunity and to really lean into it and rise to the occasion as best as we can It's interesting. I heard both Anna and Kay when you use though I think you just said about the behavior sort of you want to know about the behavior of of people coming to the museums and what they wanted What's been standing in the way of People in your positions from understanding the behavior of the people who come to the museums and want to participate in the museums What was in the way? part of it is the complications of capturing data which Just becomes easier and less expensive as time goes on that the advancement of technology were able to grab Data more easily. We're probably asking more questions now as well. So having more interest in it and and I think that one of the changes is that we all recognize now that as society is changing at such a fast pace and That our public out there is is changing also and a few years ago I was talking to a Reporter about some it might be that membership initiative in fact in Minneapolis and she said well, I don't understand It seems like you think of your visitors like their general consumers I said well, they are they're the same people who go to Target and who go see movies and go to the grocery store and Turn on the TV that those are the same people who come through our museums and that that pace of change And I think that we're all working really hard now to try to understand that that pace of change in our role with it But have better tools to understand now, and I think I have a less polite way of framing it Surprise I think that our institutions were historically closed off to other voices We didn't have diverse boards and staffs. We didn't have diverse programming we had experts who shared with us what they thought we needed to know and We know that that model is not sufficient. It's not even acceptable and There is extraordinary joy in doing work that includes far many voices and experiences in the work that we do This is why The museum definition which is now discussed at the icon Okay, should include also towards inclusion and well-being We're coming up on I've got about 10 more minutes to ask questions And then we're gonna take questions from the audience so get your cards ready and maybe our friends can sort start collecting them All right. Here's the paragraph. We've all been waiting for When academics look back, it's possible that 2019 will be remembered as an inflection point in the history of museums And their relationship to money for the past nine months major art institutions and more specifically the people who fund and run them have come under unprecedented scrutiny Everybody has an opinion about this People very strongly in their opinions about boards and how people make their money on The issue of boards the top three sectors for people on boards are banking real estate and then energy oil and gas Defense and pharmaceuticals actually believe it or not down at the bottom When you read stories about this when you see news reports about this when you're asked about this We read about it a lot in broad strokes What's a nuance about this issue? That you would like people to know and understand that's that is getting lost in the conversation Well, I would say there's no nuance in the conversation and that's the problem I think that we're quick to demonize people and Not understand The results that we're potentially having on our institutions Do we want our institutions to be weaker or do we want them to be stronger in this environment? And what would that look like and you know the whole history of philanthropy has been called Bad people doing good things. I don't believe in that. I happen to actually love and respect my board very very much, but I do think that the history of Institutions where it's universities hospitals museums, you know operas you name it is Complex, but our discussion has not been complex and I think that's problem We need to there are no neat bows and we need to Allow for real conversation and real difference of thought and if we can't have difference of thought I worry about what hope there is for all of us I Agree because a Museum is really a place for the this democratic conversation and this democratic dialogue and in fact what you say it's so true and We cannot judge the past with our own values and so it's important to keep this complexity because democracy is the organization of the deep complexity and of course We we have to hear don't go all kind of voices But those voices also must hear look the other one and this plurality of Opinion is really the essence of our democracy Look, we must accept that people could have different opinions and Museum can be those safe space for this Democratic dialogue. I do agree with you totally I throw in two things one in the nuance category is that In talking about philanthropy particularly of late We don't seem to have any space to talk about the Extraordinary benefactors we all have stories and could probably weep over them of people who have come forward To support our institutions because they believe in the mission because they believe in the impact that can be made on lives And we say we all have them our lives and and careers have been touched by Extraordinary people and it's a gift that's been given to me that I've been able to know these people and Have been inspired by their generosity and commitment to good And so that's what I would put in the nuance category but I think the other story that we're not seeing in the press is a real examination of the whole Funding model of our nonprofit organizations particularly speaking from my own experience in the arts and You know our whole model in art museums has been constructed that we have to always grow You know every year we're asked for attendance numbers and for works of art and the ideas and so often with our Our boards and the people we answer to is the idea that we everything is about growth and as we keep building buildings and in acquiring more art and then that means more staff to to work as registrars to photograph it to Work on the digital side and our educators We've grown so large and there's actually no model for shrinking at all and And our financial models are built so substantially on on philanthropy And so I think that it's not a the part that's not a nuance is a really robust discussion about The funding structure of our museums in America and I would also add to it You know, what is the philosophy that underpins all of this? How do you make decisions when we're public institutions? I'm not saying you can't I'm just saying what? What is the philosophy that informs those decisions when we're public institutions? Whose politics do we align with? So it's a it's a fascinating question and one that deserves serious care In a poll in the Arch Journal Readers said that they're about about museums the things that they were concerned about 37% said funding biggest issue 24% said relevance Responding to change in the culture and 15% said diversity for each of you you want to take one of them and Tell me what you're doing how you're handling it how you're tackling one of those three issues funding relevance or diversity, well You found something which is relevance and relevancy is diversity right now Content is a key. You cannot transform a donkey into a horse. That's all of those of those three well You know relevance and diversity go hand-in-hand for us, you know Here we are as institutions that are storytellers and how can we tell truthful dignified Stories if we don't have diversity so for me they go hand-in-hand and so you know We're working at this at all levels within the institution whether you know, it's board staff We have a great great diversity and equity task force within the institution for the past few years That's both board and staff combined and you see it in our exhibitions. You see it in our public programs You see it in our educational efforts. You see it in our community reach So, you know this ethos is in the DNA of everything we do at the museum. I Would certainly echo that the three are related I You know in thinking about my new role at the National Gallery of Art It's the first museum that I have been a part of That is not entirely a community museum. I worked in Memphis and In Fresno, California and in Minneapolis and those three museums really are Absolutely focused on the local community We used to laugh in Minneapolis that we don't see people from outside of Minnesota between about October and May because of the weather there and and as I was thinking about the opportunity of going to Washington, I said to one of my Trustees in Minneapolis that that it worried me because community museums feed my soul and What would it be like and he said yes, but at the National Gallery the nation becomes your community What does that mean and so that really excited me and got me thinking and then sort of related to that the collection of the National Gallery of Art is focused from the time of our founding on European art and American art and Again, I've always been part of institutions that have a broader collection than that and so I've been really excited about thinking about then how do we Really make use of this incredible collection that we have and think about relevance and Shortly after arriving. I asked two of our staff members to lead some Discussion groups about relevance in the institution and I said my only rule was that I didn't want it to be focused exclusively with curators and educators I wanted the whole staff to be able to participate if they wanted to and so they put out an announcement of a meeting about relevance and And we had 450 people come out of a staff of 11-1200 so people were really interested to talk about relevance. Yeah, and You know my training I went from ancient Greece and Rome to 17th century Holland so My training is very firmly in old masters and in European art and I I believe passionately in the relevance of that collection and the ability to transcend time and place with the universality of What we've been talking about here about what makes us human and so I'm super excited at the National Gallery of Art about the further conversations and explorations we're gonna have about the relevance of a European and American collection in America today So in fact In fact We are talking about museum with exhibitions collection, but culture Concerns all kind of aspects in our daily life its immigration its else family elders Inclusion and it's really the heart of so many challenges who are facing right now and in I must say and I Can say that because the OECD and you don't know the OECD But it is a worldwide economic organization Economic organization, you know that Kevin. Thank you So because it seems that in United States not so well known, but the OECD and the ICOM launch Guide one year ago about the how museum impact communities municipalities and government So it's very interesting to see that Economist considers museum as social asset Very very important you can find this guide on your website So I just thought I would give a little texture to the conversation because it's easy to speak in generalities about You know, it's in the ethos of all that we do that, you know at the Book of Museums since I've been here We've hosted some really major exhibitions. We wanted a revolution black radical women Radical women Latin America a lot of radical Latin American art soul of the nation Legacy of lynching with equal justice initiative But just to give you a sense in the next week or two We're opening five little but mighty collection shows We have kahinde Wiley's Napoleon crossing the Alps paired with Jacques-Louis David's Painting of the same subject dealing with issues of history painting Masculinity power but also a not so subtle institutional critique of what are the narratives that were traditionally valued? What are the narratives that we're valuing today lifting up and celebrating we have Jeffrey Gibson? With his work and our Native American collection really inquiring for the idea of a Native American identity one that is much more Generous and about self-determination really quite extraordinary. We have a show on climate in crisis Looking through the lens of our Native American collections in terms of the traditions and cultures of indigenous peoples in North America We're centralizing African art by having Objects from our African art collection in conversation with traditionally Western work, right? So you have any theopian cross next to an Italian Renaissance painting You'll have a Nigerian power mask next to a painting by our famous painting by Gilbert Stewart of George Washington so all of these things are really disrupting the traditional museum model and Really thinking much more proactively about this idea of contemporary relevance and connecting history to the present moment Let's take some audience questions How fun What advice would you give a young professional trying to work in the arts? Work work work like Beyonce That's Rihanna I would I would say that it's really important to be open-minded and to sit in Conversation with people who may share different views than your own you cannot succeed in business If you're not comfortable being in uncomfortable conversations What keeps you up at night? I don't know if this is personally or professionally I Actually have these two cats that Are so persistent at the door that we Build a barricade with a 25 pound kettlebell weight against the door and then move pieces of furniture Against the door and some nights they still get in Those are persistent cats. I would say that there's a culture of meanness right now I love everything about my job, but this culture of meanness. That's not based on facts It's not based on conversation and I think it's destructive to our democracy and our institutions So that keeps me up at night notice the bags under my eyes. No, I don't that's what it's about I I made a joke about my cats, but I should never joke about my cats, but I Would also throw in something that we as museum directors talk a lot about is the desire for a lot of our often engaged community members our staff members For the relevance we've been talking about for changing institutions for greater diversity and And The challenge of that audience, which is very important with also the audience that I refer to as our loyal stakeholders They tend to be our older trustees and donors. They tend to be white And and I often point out that I think for a lot of this group They don't recognize changing America unless they're taking their grandchildren to elementary school and dropping them off and seeing how America is changing and for a museum director It's a very difficult Balance between those very important audiences and stakeholders. I agree because I have five cats by the way It's a collection But I agree with you what keep me awake during the night it's the fact that now we can see our society so divided and and There is such a lack of debate and conversation and I think that really our role is to Be to make bridges between generations between fields between publics Because we cannot I'm sure that here. We all agree about the same values I'm sure even if we go to vote I'm sure that it will be almost the same thing But what is important is to to talk and to keep the conversation with the Deep part of the conversation of the population so This is what keep us awake and I'm sure that it's the same for you know, you know I actually had the benefit of Moderating a panel of esteemed librarians from major Institutions in Washington, then these coasts not long ago and I asked them the question I said so what keeps a librarian up at night and they all said the same thing they said mold The conservator answer in a North American museums might be moths just so you know Bedbugs are also high on their list All right, someone who wants to ask a question about female leadership because dang it it was on the website Um considering that museums are mostly male mostly male feel as female leaders What are you doing at your institutions to help women succeed with regard to pay gap and better? Maternity leave etc. I know that we wanted to avoid the gender issue, but when I saw the arm chair These are my office chairs. Do you like them? But someone from your museum told me that don't pink is not gender. Okay, so Wow, I thought that we need more women, okay, and we need to make What is possible to have more women on our board? We have the parity in the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts right now, but also, okay It is so important to have More women because it's not just a question of gender. It's a question of leadership a question of Different way Concerning empathy concerning are the way how we deal with power and It's very important to have this balance everywhere Must say that cultural field is not so bad look for a woman But not so much in big museums. There are not so many woman leaders but if you consider the companies for-profit companies in Canada Canada Two-thirds of the companies Do not have even a single woman on their board It's really a shame. I'd actually throw out a Another concern is that our field is becoming so predominantly filled with women and by field. I mean use art museums and and and the arts and arts faculty Universities and I worry about that because we're stronger the more diverse we are as institutions so Becoming entirely females also not not helpful and And of course all studies show that when a profession becomes Pink collar whether it's color or not That salaries go down and and so I'm very concerned about making sure that we have more men in our field I would say for those of you who are young and concerned about pay equity within our institutions You have every reason to be concerned about that and I will say a little bit of good news is that The conversations I have with colleagues here in New York and around the country a lot of us are investing in outside Consultants taking an objective look at our institutions to see where the inequities lie And I think there's a lot of sincere action on the part of many of my colleagues to try to write historic wrongs What efforts are being undertaken to increase racial diversity of museum leadership and boards? Beyond acknowledging the value of diversity So so we have a very diverse we have a we have a pretty diverse board actually at the Brooklyn Museum and My predecessor Arnold layman was a great believer in diversity that if we have diversity of thought and experience And profession is professions were stronger. We can pay a path forward for the institution more successfully That diversity continues to grow. It's very intentional effort, but I think that sometimes institutions Think that you can only have people with money on your board And I think it's really important to remember that the board is there to help guide the museum in the present and toward a healthy robust future and You can't do that if you don't have lots of different people around the table. So professional expertise Needs to be as valued as the financial Support that people bring I comment on the for the field that I've been involved with the Association of Art Museum Directors AMD for 20 years now and AMD about 12 years ago, maybe 10 years ago Really sat up and said we've got to do something when you look around this room of Art Museum Directors were you know 98% white and And as a sort of field we Really decided that we needed to as a field come together to work harder about the pipeline and what we're doing to work with students from high school college On up to try to diversify the pipeline going forward that that was the most important work that we could do to change the future and the recent move of the AMD announcing that as a field we were going to support paid internships at last Was also I think a major development I actually When I was in Minneapolis a team of our younger staff came to me and said enough We have to have paid internships and I said what I Was a free intern at the start of my career You know if this is what we do we you know pay our dues for the field and they looked at me said Yes, and we're all gonna look like you until we make a change and And you know we heard them so it's and it's exactly the same situation in Canada plus the indigenous Challenge because of course we are in this policy of truth and reconciliation and We have we must make some effort in order to integrate to include indigenous People on each level of our institution. So it's absolutely true. That is not the question of Acquisition Exhibition, but it's really among our staff like that we need to make those changes and It will be done. It will be done because this is our century. It's not the future. It's now But you know museums can't solve this by itself Universities for example have to play a really major role and I want to give a shout out to my friend But the Easton with the Center for curatorial leadership who's been working really hard to help prepare the future generation of museum leaders by training the curatorial ranks and They're having tremendous progress and impact and at the same time. We just simply need more people To choose to have careers in the arts to get higher education Curatorial degrees for example, but until we pay equitably It's very hard for people to make those decisions. So there's a major shift adjustment That's going beginning to go on in our field. I think right now Interesting you seem interested in impact. You all seem interested in impact How are you including the stories of impact from participants in your planning and marketing? I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a different example of impact the one I like So this fall some of you may have read we started a new initiative at the museum called project reset It's a collaboration with the DA's office the Brooklyn DA and the Center for Court Innovation and and the and the idea is that when People get picked up primarily young people but not exclusively young people for small crimes like jumping the turnstile Maybe a little graffiti. Maybe a little shoplifting Rather than clogging up the court system Having to pay bail and if they can't pay bail they end up in Rikers and they have a record and their lives are ruined And their families are lives are disrupted and their community lives are disrupted, etc We understand the cycle, right? That they do a two-and-a-half hour class at the museum once they do that class They don't have to go to the court system. Their record is cleared. They pay no fine. They're forgiven imagine that and this country with a history of Getting worse and worse a culture of punishment that we actually forgive people so In the first year of this pilot program will have kept 750 people out of the system. That's how I define impact We're almost out of time. So I want to ask sort of the last essayish question When you think about your personal goals as a leader What are they and what What were some of your first steps to achieving those goals? I say my you know my role is to empower our staff to Listen to them to help remove roadblocks to achieving the great ideas and dreams that they have to help them find The resources and the opportunities to create them and then to get out of the way so that they can do it I would say that the goal is really to to bring Culture as important as sport in our well-being for me I'm absolutely convinced that Culture and art will be Considered as important for our health as Sport because one century ago it was not at all obvious that sport was good for our body and our health It was even criticized But now look it's obvious for everybody obviously so I think that Having the well-being having this social impact and in Montreal frankly because it's not it's a city with two 2.5 million. It's not so big in cooperation with New York, but we are working with 450 and 50 association So we'll receive one point two million people that we have more than 100,000 members We'll we see it's really it's it's a top five MD membership So the impact is so strong and you can see that there is a true Effect on our society because we we work with For restorative justice. We work with the medical doctors. We work against violence With women's etc. Etc. 450 Association and this is what a museum can do in his society. So just maintaining and What is important that our politics should understand that our museum are not just for a blockbusters and collections and Fancy contemporary art fairs We are truly assets for our society and I hope that it will be understood by Fundraisers and politicians Well, I guess I would say You know, my father always said to me endeavor to leave the planet a better place than you inherited Obviously one institution or one person or a field can't necessarily do that But I know that my board and my my staff my team here at the Brooklyn Museum all feel passionately That we must do our very best to create more dignity dignity and decency in the world And so we do that one program at a time Natalie Bond ill Kaywin Philman and Anne Pasternak. Thanks so much. Thank you And thank you Allison for your moderation And of course, thank you to all of you for joining us if you're not a museum member I just have to give a plug. Please consider joining We love our members you keep programs like this possible and of course we encourage you to come back to the museum like Anne mentioned we have some really incredible shows opening next week and This time well, no Thursday of next week. We have a few tickets left We have a conversation with Kehinde Wiley and Hilton Al's so don't miss out on that And then of course you can pick up a program on your way out to learn about the other events that we have going on at the Museum get home safe. Thanks so much for coming out