 From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. Hello everyone, welcome to this CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. I'm in the Palo Alto CUBE Studios here with the quarantine crew doing the remote interviews during this time of COVID. Of course, we want to check in with all of our great esteemed guests. And CUBE alumni, we're here with Jerry Chen, partner at Greylock. Jerry, great to see you. It's been a while. Hope you're sheltering in place. Nice camera, nice setup you got there at home. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, John. I set up all the cameras just for you. Everybody needs their quarantine hobbies. And for me, I kind of dust off the audio-visual playbook and set this up just for the CUBE interviews. But it's good to see you've glad to you and the family are healthy and sane as well. Yeah, and same to you. Let's just jump into it. Obviously COVID-19 has caused the virtualization trend, virtual everything. You're no stranger to virtualization at VMware back in the day. Really changed the game on server virtualization, but the whole world's becoming virtual. And it's very interesting because now people are feeling what we in the industry have been talking about inside the ropes for a long time, which is the future's there. It's going to be about interactions online, software, cloud scale. These things just got accelerated. And I mean, the disruption, the change of behavior, Zoom fatigue, WebExing, all this stuff that's happening. People are kind of like, wow, this isn't the future. This is a real impact. And it's mainstream. Everyone's feeling about a business to personal. Your thoughts? Yeah, I think Satya Nadella and Microsoft had this quote recently that they've seen, two decades worth of digital acceleration and transformation in just two months. And I think what we've seen the past four months, John, is all the kind of the first order effects of virtualization events, not just infrastructure, but like virtualization meetings and people, telemedicine, telehealth, online education, delivery of food, all those trends have just accelerated. We were buying stuff on e-commerce, Amazon, Instacart beforehand, that's just accelerated. We're moving towards virtualized events, online education, online healthcare, that's just accelerated. So I think we're seeing the first order effects of changing not only how we work, how we communicate, but how we shop and interact and socialize, it's accelerated, it compressed two decades within two, three months. And so I think that's changing both how you and I interact and how we build relationships, but also how companies interact with their customers, now companies interact with their employees. And it's been an exciting time because, you know, one, when there's disruption, there's opportunity, but two, it's giving guys like you and me a chance to kind of dust off or try new skills. And you and I are both figuring out how to exist and thrive in this world where we're now interacting this virtualized world. And it's still the same game, personal relationships, content is now data. This is stuff that we've been preaching on theCUBE, you've been on many times talking about, I got to get your thoughts as a venture capitalist, you know, whether you're making bets on the future for investments, you got to see a 10 year horizon, roughly speaking average on VC deals, enterprises and customers who are building out cloud and data centers, they got to make new bets or double down on stuff they've been doing or cancel stuff that they had going on and refactoring. So I want to get your thoughts on one, first on the VC side, how have you guys refactored your thinking, your meetings and your bets? Yeah, so I would say three areas. One is how we operate as a VC firm, what's changed. Number two, I'll talk about kind of what we're investing in, what's good or bad. And thirdly, it's like what I think changes for our portfolio companies and how startups think. So first and foremost, like obviously we've gone on virtual too, with Shelter in Place, our entire team is now working remotely, working from home, but we're still open for business and we're looking to find new investments. We are investing aggressively right now and we're just doing things over Zoom. And so we're either A, doing video calls as a partnership or doing video calls with startups that we're meeting and founders. But I'll be honest, one thing I've done, John, so I've turned off the screen more or less, I've done more phone calls because I find that a video call is great for the first or second meeting, but with a founder or executive have a relationship with, it's just really nice to actually go on a virtual walk where me and the founder, we're both putting on AirPods, we'll take the phone, we'll just walk outside and kind of have a conversation that's a little bit higher bandwidth. So I think how we're operating has changed a little bit, but to your point, it's the same business, connecting with a person one-on-one, reading the market, reading the founder and making it back. So that hasn't changed. I think on the stuff we're vesting in, like you said, all the trends around cloud and APIs and SaaS, that's accelerated. So all the trends around the new workplace, SaaS companies, collaboration, going cloud, that's accelerated faster. So some of our companies like Kato Networks that does software-defined wide-eyed networks plus cloud security, that's accelerated. They're in this market called Secure Access Service Edge. We've seen kind of a nice tailwind from that. More and more data is going to cloud. So companies like Rockset, that's a database company that you had on theCUBE, they're going to see a benefit from that because more and more data is down in the cloud. Then finally, for the founders we work with, the way they go to market, the way they sell, like no one's flying around selling one-on-one anymore. You're not meeting a CISO, the CIO over a steak dinner or you're not going to a conference anymore. So a lot of our companies are figuring out how to do more online sales, bottom self-adoption, that could be an API, that could be open source, but trying to find kind of a more of a line of business, entry to the company and sell that way versus go to a conference or for a one-on meeting. So it's interesting, everything's moved faster, but then this slight curve ball on how you connect their customer has changed. And so, what's the Darwin line? It's not the strongest that survives, but the most adaptable. So we're seeing the companies and the founders that are most adaptable right now, they're going to thrive. It's interesting, we've always talked about it from a tech standpoint with DevOps and cloud native integration or horizontally scalable. It's been an ethos of value creation. You've talked about moats in the past, but now it's more real life is emerging and becoming immersed into software. And so I want to get your thoughts on this. And we have a phrase here in the CUBE team is that every company will become a media company. It's something that we believe in and you're starting to see that people doing more Zooms, doing more digital events. You mentioned some of the other things. Can you see any other examples where a company has to become blank? Because media is just one element of the new reality. It's just life, right? You've got a broadcast and you got to share your stories and formats, that's media. Is there other areas we're seeing that things that weren't on the radar before with COVID where companies have to become something? Like every company will be blank. Fill in the blank. I would say, you know, it's tried to say one was every company's a data company. People say that for a while. That's more true than ever. Number two, I'll be honest, every company now is a healthcare company, right? Because being health insurance for your employees, that the current pandemic is making the reality of both physical health and emotional health and mental health key for employees. And so if that was a top cost factor for hiring employees, it's gonna be even more important going forward than every company's healthcare company. And thirdly, like you said, every company's a media company. I would say every company is also either one or two things, they're a FinTech company because every company is now going online with their content. They want you to create a one-to-one commercial relationship with their customer, right? That could be ads, could be transaction, could be selling something. So you're now doing business directly with your customer. So every company's a FinTech company. And I would say every company is now also, like you said, a content company, right? It's the media you're creating, but also the data you're taking, the value add on top of the data you're creating and then how you share that back to your customer. So you as an enterprise company or a consumer company, you're collecting data from your users, you're gonna use that data to improve your product. And this could be a SaaS offering, this could be an application, but then take that data through real-time analytics, then make your product better. And so because of that, if you're a data company, real-time data, like our database company mentioned earlier, Rockset becomes more important. If you're a FinTech company, so all things are on payments or commercial banking and the relationship with your customer makes sense. And then if you're a healthcare company, because all your employees are now caring about healthcare, just thinking about how to make communication of healthcare with your employees a lot more efficient and part of the reason why to work for the keyboard and work for a startup is important. So I think those three things are top of mind for all employees and all employers. I think things could change the next six or nine months, but right now I see those three being front and center. It's interesting. I wonder if you can add real estate companies to that because if you look at the work from home dynamic, I've got a friend who was a fellow dad with my son's lacrosse team. He lives in Los Gatos. He's been involved in Google, Tesla, building out their facilities. And he had an interesting guest post on SiliconANGLE and he was saying, it's not just give them some extra pay for their internet access, companies got to rethink the facilities question, right? Because do you pay rent for your employees? Do you provide the VPN, beyond VPN security, for instance? So again, you start to see these new opportunities or challenges open up new thinking. This is going to be a wave of an opportunity. Well, that virtualization between work and home has now been blurred, like you said earlier, John, and so if you're a technology company that enables remote access or distributed access, like Kato Networks, when the portfolio comes in graylock around, you know, a room office, home office, that is now Dioto, right? So I had this conversation with Jay Srinivasan, asked, spoke one of our companies, there's like a Maslow hierarchy for working out and at the base of the Maslow hierarchy is like good internet access, right? That's the how to, they need security, right? Because if you don't have secure access, you can't work. And then you have to have some kind of information management, knowledge management, how to communicate, right? And then collaboration. So you have now this new hierarchy of what is required to work in this new world, but also the tools and the technologies, be it, you know, secure access serves edge like Kato or, you know, IT help desk for all your employees, like, like, as spoke, both of those things become diotone for any remote work, just like video conferencing, we can do this, you know, in the same way 10, 15 years ago, that's become kind of a must have. And so I think it'd be fascinating how we went from the office world where I gave you a laptop or computer or desk to this home office world where maybe you now have to pay for my fancy camera setup and my VPN. Well, certainly getting, you're getting good ROI setup and sure the Greylock will take care of that. Got plenty of dough, big billions of dollars under management. And by the way, Mads Love Hierarchy in our house is ping and internet access. So, yeah, we fight for that ping time. I got 12, I'm like, what's going on? Who's gaming? I got to get the kids off of Twitch, whatnot. But in all seriousness, this is what the reality is. So, now for the average person out there, there's a lot of discussion around mental health. You mentioned, you know, taking it off the video conferencing and going for a walk and just talking on the phone. This speaks to the humanization aspect of what's going on, mental health, social interaction, or social creatures. Collaboration has to be reimagined. What's your view on all this? I think absolutely. Look, humans are social creatures by nature. And I think part of the reason why I had this conversation with my founders early during COVID-19, that it's both a healthcare crisis, it's an economic crisis with all the millions and millions of people unemployed. But it's also an emotional crisis because one, we're not connected with family and friends and loved ones and we're sheltering at home with either ourselves or just a handful of people. And so, we're trying to figure out ways to recreate social connections and that's a phone call, it's a video call, it's these Zoom dinners or Zoom parties is key. I think going out socially just in walks is another thing to kind of play and experience things together. But my two cents is if you're a start right now, it can help connect people work wise or socially, that's just gonna be super critical for the new experience. And I think people are discovering new ways to use technology. So Zoom was never meant to be used the way it is today. I think that's amazing. I think how people think about voice, video and email and chat are changing as well. So I'm finding new ways to play games online with my nieces or communicate with them. And I think as an employer in these companies, like HR software and how you manage and coach and lead your employees is going to change as well. And so you have this world where we're all in one building and think about how you as a CEO or as a leader now can actually coach, develop and enable your employees across the world. I want to get your thoughts on cloud. We've had many conversations around cloud computing. I asked the rise of AWS. I remember one, there was a big Twitter conversation I think about last year where what enabled Amazon? And I think one of the things that came out of it was virtualization enabled them to have all these different servers. What do you see coming out of this virtualization of our lives with the COVID-19 as people start to figure out beyond the triage of stabilization and as they get foundationally set up in COVID, coming out of it companies and people have to have a growth strategy whether it's life or business. People want to come out of this on the upside whether it's emotional or with their business. How do you, what do you see being enabled? What needs to be in place? What kind of scale? What kind of environment? Because this is where I think the entrepreneurs are really going to sharpen their energy on their creativity is looking at the expectations and experience needed coming out of this. It may look completely different than what we were talking about a year ago. What's your thoughts? Well, I think individually people can use this time to improve their skills in different ways, right? So I think as an employee, as a CEO, as a founder you take the time to like invest in new skills and that could be, hey, how do I community collaborate and manage my team remotely? So I think CEOs and founders they can understand how to motivate, educate, train their employees in this new role. Well, those are skills going forward, right? So communication has always been a great skill John for any leader, any founder. It's 10 X more important in this new virtualized work world communication motivation and leading people over remote work is going to be a new skill that people have. Managing remote teams, managing fully distributed teams are half distributed, half headquarters. So understanding how to organize and lead your team in this kind of half in the office, half out of the office world, that's going to be a challenge as well. So any tools, technology and tips there. But I think in terms of the founders that can now hire employees, find customers, sell customers and manage a distributed team, those three things in this new world, even post COVID-19, we're not going back to the way we were. So the ability to actually use skills around email, creating content, Slack, Zoom, video chat, online conferences. What was that video kill the radio star, right? The first MTV video. So COVID-19 and Zoom and video collaboration, what does that do to the old skills of the old founders and what do they enable? So just like TV replace radio as a medium and now there's virtualized roles to replace kind of the medium we had beforehand. So there'll be a new generation of founders and investors coming out of this generation of B for the next 10, 15 years. And I'm excited to be part of that. Yeah, and it's super big opportunity because as those, you have these kind of medium changes, new protocols get developed, new responsibilities and roles emerge, value creation, capture equations change, right? So you're looking at things like online events, for instance, they don't happen anymore. And even when they do come back, they'll probably be hybrid anyway. So you got virtual, hybrid, public. Sounds like a cloud play to me. Public events, hybrid events and private events, I guess. I mean, I mean- Yeah, virtual private events, but it's the same thing holds. Just like cloud internet increased the reach, right? So all of a sudden you can reach a bigger audience than just radio, TV or the newspaper. Now you have these virtualized events, like you said, private events, public events, hybrid events, you as a company or a media property like theCUBE can now reach a larger audience, right? Like it's global, you don't have to be there in person. You're going to have the remote audience as a first class citizen now more than ever. It's just like the internet replacing newspaper and print. People really care about print and newspaper, but really the reach online is or to magnitude larger than print. So all of a sudden you thought more about the print, so the online audience more than print audience. So now going forward, you're going to think about the virtual audience that's remote versus the physical audience. And so you're going to have to create experiences that are world-class for both properties. So just like the cloud, you think about the big three cloud providers, private cloud, as a technology company, you think about all three venues or all three infrastructures as a first class citizen, right? It's not going to be all one cloud, it's not all going to be one note, if you will. So it forces everyone to think not just kind of one path, but multiple paths. So like classic problem is a lot of founders think, okay, I'm going to do an enterprise private cloud strategy only, or I'm going to do a cloud only SaaS strategy. Now founders do both at the same time, I can address the private cloud on-premise business at the same time as the cloud business, and not just one cloud, three or four clouds around the world. So it forces founders to be able to do more things in one time and the ability for a company to attack multiple venues or multiple territories at the same time, they'll be successful. And the days where you and I can just do one cloud or one venue or one audience, those are gone. And so, you know, folks like yourself, John, in which you built here the cube with everyone else, we can reach multiple audiences at the same time. That's going to be very powerful. And we're going to be marketing and doing a lot more online events. Like you said, it's going to be easier to tap into our 7,000 plus alumni to get people together to create great content. And again, content value to remote audience is interesting. So that shifts into the conversation of everyone talks about the remote worker. Well, what about the remote customer, the remote prospect? So this is going to change how companies have to be changed their behaviors. And it's going to be driven by developers because it's not like one app consultant because you got to integrate. You got to have some integration points. So this is the question. Are we moving away from that monolithic SaaS app? Or is it going to be some SaaS apps that need to integrate with others? Will there be an abstraction layer of innovation around it? Because at the end of the day, these new workloads and new apps got to be built. I mean, if you're going to run an event, if I'm a SAP or a big company, I'm not going to rely or may not want to rely on a vendor. In fact, the CEO of SAP said because their site crashed for their event, I'm not going to rely on a third party to run my business event because their business model is the event, not just a supplier selection for a SaaS app. So interesting kind of new surge of online activity might tip the scales for the supplier side. I think you're right, John. I think because now the, just like the IT technology is now your business, you're going to basically do one of two things. One, that the IT technology provider, that much higher or harder. But number two to your point, I think the way you sell and reach companies is going to be through the developers. And yes, you're going to have these large model of SaaS apps before, but almost every SaaS app now has APIs for integration. And so to your point is that integration, the ability to have multiple companies work together and share data and collaborate, that's going to be more important. And so really, you know, at Greylock and myself, I've been like investing in developer led technologies and developer led adoption or API or open source led adoption for seven plus years now. And the truth of the matter is that's going to be even more powerful going forward. Like Naseem Taleb would say that's anti-fragile, right? So having one giant app is fragile, but having a bunch of small apps or a bunch of like APIs or a bunch of developers using your open source technology or using your API technology to build an application that's anti-fragile because at the end of the day, you know, that's going to be more reliable for your customer than a single point of failure, which could be one giant application. So all the big apps like Salesforce, now they're platforms, right? They have APIs that have extensibility. They understand that there's a long, fat tail of solutions needed to build. And all the new startups are doing open source or API led adoption to the understand that's the fastest route to create value for the customer is also the most robust technology stack that a customer can build upon. I think that's super insightful. In fact, that is I think so compelling because if you think about it, that's the formula for great investments from a startup standpoint. But now because of COVID, as you said, everything's been pulled forward and accelerated at the same time. There's a collision. Not all the enterprises are that strong. They're not that developer led. So I think to the point about acceleration, now the enterprises, and we've seen pockets of this with cybersecurity where they have their own, you know, in-house teams, you know, doing a variety of different development. The customers have to be developer led because that's where the value is. So they have to have a supplier with the right stack and integration frameworks. Now the customers who haven't really been developer led have to be developer led. What's your take on that? Absolutely, absolutely true. I mean, like 20 years ago, the CIO of a company used to be the monopoly supplier technology for the company. They decided what hardware to use, what servers, what stores to use, what applications to buy. And then all of a sudden like Amazon came around and said, well, look, here's a set of APIs. Go build what you want. And so the competition for kind of like the centralized decision-making became Amazon. And guess what? CIOs reacted, they got better, they got smarter. And those that embraced kind of like an API developer led adoption became the CIOs you want to have in the company. So I think, you know, CIOs in this cloud mobile era have adopted that philosophy that, look, my job now as a CIO is enable my developers, my employees, which are really the assets of the companies, the people, to have the right tools. So here it acts to a bunch of cloud APIs, like, you know, Roxetta, whatever for data, or here's a bunch of resources or open source technologies for you to pull. So like I invested in a company recently called Chronosphere. It's an open source technology around metrics and monitoring. So hey, use this open source time series database for monitoring your cloud and build upon that. And they're not going to say, we're going to pick, you know, one large vendor that's monolithic. We're going to say, here's an open source tech company or a cloud API, go build upon that. And the companies that are embracing that philosophy of API led or developer led, John, they're going to be far ahead of the better CIOs of their companies because the rate of digital adoption has just gone, you know, exponential. So we were on this super fast path already. And with quarantine COVID, we've accelerated all that digital transformation. So every brick and mortar retailer now has to be e-commerce retail. So they're making a slow digital transformation to go from brick and mortar stores to online stores. Now, like brick and mortar retail is pretty much not happening and probably won't come back to the same levels for a while. They need to accelerate their move towards digital transformation, right? And it certainly exposes the people who haven't really made those investments because literally action is the mandate now, take action, make those changes, totally want to dig into this developer led vision because I think that's very real. And the new decision's got to be made on what to do. I mean, I'm happy to see the DevOps thinking agile speed become the table stakes. So with that, this week, Google is having their nine week digital event of 200 plus sessions, essentially an asynchronous event. It's going to be sprinkled out that kind of pretty much released the videos, most of them today over the next eight, nine weeks. You're going to see a lot of videos. Google, one of the big three at AWS, Azure, Google, what's your assessment of the horses on the track relative to cloud? Look, I think, you know, I've been talking about this for seven, eight, nine years. When we, you know, I first met it like in the first or second Amazon re-event, what was the forecast? And then we said, well, you know, it's not a winner take all, but right now it's a winner take most. Amazon's clearly the market share leader. Azure, you know, coming up quickly behind the enterprise. Google's a third, but they're doing some smart things around technology. So Google announced a bunch of things today, which I think are very smart. So for example, they announced BigQuery Omni, which is BigQuery that's inquiry, they're kind of data warehouse. You can also query data in private cloud, Azure, Amazon. And so strategically, if you're the number three player, you're going to, you know, push a multi-cloud agenda with BigQuery Omni or Google Anthos, which is kind of a multi-cloud platform. And, you know, for Google, I think it's the right strategy. I also think it's the right strategy for most customers to be multi-cloud because you can't be dependent upon, you know, a single point of failure in your applications. You can't be dependent upon a single cloud as well. So I think the multi-cloud is probably the direction we're headed as cloud matures. And I think Google's making a bunch of the right choices around embracing multi-cloud. And today they made that choice with BigQuery Omni. And so I think, you know, they're playing catch up, but they're playing that game. I think Amazon's clearly still in the lead and it still, you know, blows my mind and it's continually pressing me what they've done over the past 10 years in terms of proving, you know, the cloud offering and the cloud services up and down the stack. And I think the past, you know, five, six years, what Azure's done has been super impressive in terms of, you know, Microsoft embracing open source, embracing, you know, cloud as ethos against their legacy business of operating systems and servers on premise. They've done a great job embracing the next generation. But I do think looking around the corner, this new developer led, you know, mindset's going to matter, right? So the cloud of tomorrow will be APIs like Stripe for Payments, Twilio for Communication. So I see the next evolution not just being VMs and containers, but also a bunch of cloud services around data security and privacy. And, you know, the cloud vendor can build this next generation of, you know, database APIs or privacy APIs, security APIs, that they're going to be in the catbird seat for the next 10 years and applications are going to be built. And it'll be interesting to your developer led position, our conversation around that. If the developer's going to be leading, is it going to be an abstraction layer across multiple clouds? Or do I have to have my Google developers and my Amazon developers and my Azure developers? How do you see that playing out? Because I do believe developer led is the way. The question is how do you figure out not, how do you avoid forking resources, right? So you might want to have a hand, I get that. But if I'm going to go double down on, say, a cloud, I'm going to go deep. I'm going to hire developers. It's interesting. History would suggest you have multiple teams. Remember, you know, we used to have a Unix team or Sun team inside companies, right? You had a Windows team, you had a kind of a Solaris Linux team and there was a Microsoft team and a non-Microsoft team and most companies. And, you know, they didn't really work well together and they had kind of two groups in most companies. You know, I think that was an okay way to get started but ultimately, to your point, that was not cost-effective. It also was defeating because now you had to like have two other things. Okay, what was my data backup strategy? Okay, I have a Windows backup strategy and a Unix Solaris backup strategy. So I think we're not going to make the same mistake again, right? I think we're going to have multiple clouds, Amazon, Google, Azure, and then on-premise private cloud. So call it, you know, three, four or five clouds and then you're going to have a set of tools that can abstract away not 100% of the clouds but I think, you know, the best developer tools, the best APIs will be multi-cloud. So I can get 80% or 90% of what I want to be done through this developer-led, you know, layer of APIs, be it databases or analytics and then, you know, 10 to 20% of the code you can write will be able to take care of what's unique to Amazon, what's unique to Azure, what's unique to Google or what's unique to your own private cloud. But I think we're seeing a layer of technology and that's true in all the startups. We're back in true in all the startups I see that lets you get most of the way done with a single platform, single set of technologies and that's what customers want, right? They don't want to create multiple fiefdoms. They want, you know, one set of technologies. They want choice, but the reality is they don't always get it. I want to go through a throwback to 2010 when Paul Merritt set a VM where our first cube, a gig, he said, there's a hard and top, okay? The hard and top was, you don't worry about what's underneath the top, who's going to focus on the top of the stack? That was classic kind of, you know, the stack would develop and you'd had standardization. You mentioned you had Windows teams and Unix teams, but also you could argue that, you know, back then you had Cisco and Wellfleet vendors, but you didn't have two teams of routers. You had one standard and you, that ran the remote, you know, interoperably OSPF routing or whatever you had going on. So you had some standardization. How do you view that? Because you want some standardization to have the interoperability, the SLAs and the security, at the same time you want to have flexibility kind of above what may be called a hard and top. Is there a hard and top in multi-cloud? You know, I'd say there's not, the hard top does exist in the same way. I think in, you know, the back in the day had proprietary technologies, operating systems and, you know, firmware, right? So Windows was closed. A lot of the network operating systems were closed source. Now you can't get away with that. So you have open source technologies today and public APIs. And so the pressure of both, one competition to public APIs that people can read, copy, adjust, three open source and just customer demand not to be locked into a hard top anymore, that's largely going to go away. So I think most of major vendor success will try to kind of more or less lock you in and keep you stuck on their platform, their technology. And that's fine, right? Every successful company should be able to do that. But I think the ability to lock you in through proprietary software operating systems, that's not going to happen anymore. I see through cloud and open source, what we've seen is kind of the interoperability and flexibility is the default. If you can't, you know, meet those needs, customers go other ways. I mean, there'll be proprietary technologies, proprietary extensions along the way, but, you know, 60, 70% of what you want is going to be compatible with most technologies and most clouds. If you're not going to offer choice and freedom to our customers, they'll go elsewhere. Because if you don't offer a flexible solution, John, someone else will. And the customers will choose a more flexible solution. I would agree with you. Outside of latency, which is the laws of physics, value is the lock in. You're creating value. That's really what the customers want. They get to capture that value. Well, Jerry, great to have you on. Love the new setup. We're going to have to make this more of it. We can bring you in on the podcast when we get on the Zooms over the weekend, maybe put a panel together. Let's get Carl Esherbach and some VMware alums to come on, give the perspective what's going on. And I thank you for taking the time and great to see that you're healthy and doing well. Thanks. You too. Thanks, John. Anytime. I love being on theCUBE. So we'll look forward to my next trip. All right, Jerry Chen, great CUBE alumni. Our first interview, oh, nine years ago, he brought that up. That was the second reinvent. Boy, has the world changed and it's only going to accelerate even faster. Everything's changing. New bets are being made. Decisions have to be evolving quickly and faster. If you're not fast, you will be in the pile of dead companies and not making it. Jerry Chen, breaking it down as venture capitalist for Greylock. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching.