 Yeah, we were just talking about the video and stuff, right? And I just kind of like going back earlier while we were mentioning about just like how hard it is and just feeling this like conflict as being artists and especially doing this like piece of like having a conversation about our neighborhoods but like how much are we willing to really, like do we want to show it? Or like, you know, like how does it, I don't know, how's it going to leave an impact in the world once you like release it and how people can view it? And I think that's a lot of like, I don't know, thinking about like our accountability as artists from these neighborhoods, what we do when we like put our identity out there, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I think when I was talking about before how when I was looking at both the images, my snaps, and obviously like, you know, they're beautiful because like our neighborhoods are beautiful and have culture present in them, obviously. But yeah, I couldn't help but think about the way in which culture is manipulated and used in this place. Communities, right? Communities who like built those cultures, right? But then how to, yeah, for displacement basically and thinking about gentrification obviously and the scenes and Jackson Heights, which you know, yeah. Yeah, it's so tough because I understand that like, I was going, I found this is like new ice cream dispensary that like in my neighborhood in the super industrial and there's like a lot of like kind of like family industrial business like there's a Valencia like big factory around there. But that was my point was that when I was going there and I saw it for the first time, there was like a mural and it was like all graffiti, but then I don't know. I was like and attached to it, which was like really awesome. I had like questions about like the company and where they come from, are they from the neighborhood? Are they using graffiti as a way to like, I think it would be great because I feel like it should be recognized as like design is like, it's awesome as something that's like very culturally rich. But then or is it like a strategy to like brand is like urban and like cool and hip or fresh, you know. And it sucks because it's like, I want to like represent my image and I identify to the graffiti and it's like tax crew who's like, there's like local artists. And it's awesome that they're doing all this work and keeping it in a community. But yeah, I don't want people to take it. I don't know. Yeah, it just like made me feel like how to like read that, like see my culture being part of like branding, branding identity. And it's hard for me because I'm a graphic designer. And so I feel like I'm very conflicted when I do that a lot, you know. I want to like empower people, but I also want to keep it true to our roots. So yeah, it's a struggle. Yeah, I feel like, I mean, it's difficult stuff to negotiate, you know, even obviously like, I mean, even as like, I mean, I grew up here. I mean, I was born in Peru, but like, I'm not like, I'm from here. So technically I'm not like a gentrified like I'm also aware of how right my power, like my access and my privilege has shifted back the way that I move through my neighborhood now, you know, and, and how that's like a concern I have to think about. Like I know that that's like my responsibility as someone who's like accountable to my neighborhood. But yeah, I mean, but it feels complicated or I was, or when you brought up like, like in relation to Queens, like food is something that's like really like for Queens, right? Because Queens is like super diverse and like there's like the most delicious like food in Queens, right? Which is like, we have really good food here. But, but you know, like that's, that's what you hear articles, right? Which is basically like, I feel like whenever there's a New York Times, I mean, obviously whenever there's a New York Times article about a neighborhood, it's like, you know, it feels like, like it's marking that neighborhood. And then that's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not even subtle. It's like explicit. And, and yeah, and I feel like for Queens, like, yeah, I mean, from Queens, you know, the first thing they want to talk about is like food, right? They're like, Oh, tell me like the good spots, blah, blah, blah. And part of part of me is like, yeah, I mean, like it's proud. I'm like, yeah, we do like, I grew up eating foods from like, whatever. And like, that's also like a unique experience, right? But, but I'm like, no, I actually want to like, I don't want to like perform this for you, right? This like, because I don't, I guess it's because like, yeah, because I don't trust you. Trust you with this like, knowledge. The way that you're going to take this information, how you're going to perceive it, and then like, how that's going to shift your desires, right? Or like how something seems like attractive to you. And that's the thing, like I don't, I'm not trying to sell my neighborhood to anyone, you know, like, and like, and that's the, like that's, that's the clear difference from like wanting resources for our neighborhoods, right? For like our community, and maybe, and I don't know. And that maybe sometimes like also like a hard, or like, that can be like a difficult, right? Because sometimes whatever we, we feel like we do have to kind of sell ourselves to like get stuff, right? Like capitalism, um, yeah. Yeah, it's tough, like, I'm thinking of like what you said about the way we access our neighborhoods and walk through the streets and like the privileges that we have. And it's been tough because I'm born and raised from the Bronx, like all my life I'm like, I don't know, like, yes, South Bronx, like, I've been through everything and dealt with all of it, like a poor, shitty, like education system and high athlete rates and a lot of these like, factors because of where I grew up and it's like, because it was like a low income, like, like people of color community, you know, and ever since I was born in this community, I pretty much like had a target in my back, like the way I'm raised and the way I'm like, happens to me or like my identity is created because it's like neighborhood, like what happens around it, you know? But then ever since I went to college, somehow I got all this access to like privileges and that was just me going to Cooper, like, down to like, St. Mark's, there was only like a 40 minute ride and now all of a sudden I have all these like privileges and access and I'm like, what the fuck? Like, people tell like kids in the hood to like go to college and shit and I go to college and now all of a sudden I'm like this like, super privileged, like, I don't know, it gets weird, like, people think that like, I went to school and I'm different, like I don't understand, like, some of the struggles and I'm like, I do, but you know, so I totally understand, like, it's tough and that's like also another conflict that I have to deal with. But in relation to like neighborhoods changing so fast, yeah, if I'm seeing it all around me and Hunts Point and the South Bones and I'm even seeing people who believe in this idea of like self gentrification, like, let's make gentrification work for ourselves and I just think that's like a fucked up idea, because like we have to accept this horrible thing that's going to displace and like it's like a violent thing to our culture, like it's going to remove us, it's going to, you know, people can't afford to like live here anymore because it's going to, it's going to like fulfill this like middle class comfort. So I'm having a hard time telling people where I'm from, especially knowing that Hunts Point is kind of a primary and it's weird and especially going to school and like having conversations with people they have ideas about the Bronx, but then they're also like living in Brooklyn or like from the middle of nowhere. And I'm like, you're probably just like, as much as you talk shit about it now and you have like your negative stereotypes, you're probably going to move in soon. And I'm just like, I don't know, yeah, like I have this fear like talking to them about it too. Like I want to keep it private, but then it's like, it's not fair because it's part of my identity. It's like, it's what made me. For sure. Everything I've been through because like I came from this community and I'm proud of that. And it's hard like I want to share that and I think it's like culturally rich and it's my images and visuals and it's my identity. But then it's unfair that I'm like, yeah, it was not, it's not that it's unfair. It's just hard with the line of like, am I exploiting my neighborhood and my culture, especially as an artist. And then to show it into like spaces are not really always for our community. There's like a certain audience that comes around art too, you know? Yeah, I don't know. Sorry, I like so many fucking ideas that I just went through because you brought up so many for me. But like, but yes, it was just hard. Like, yeah. And then I was like leaving to another thing. Making this video piece is like, I hope my community sees it and identifies it. But then it gets weird when it's like a white audience and there's like a white gaze and and then I realized that going to the art world, how many like white male artists exist and how like crazy like art is not as like expressive is very politicized and very like capitalist too, you know? And as a very like specific like privileged people, people that do a specific type of art, you know, and that's known as making art. So it's hard like being an artist and knowing that I have to go through this world. Yeah, where does my artwork come from? Yeah. People see it and in a day and shit. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I feel like, I mean, it's interesting how this intersects with like us being artists, but also part of a community, right? Like a community that we grew up in. And I think I think that's I also like, I try to like, sometimes like, I mean, obviously they overlap. But sometimes they do feel separate. I think because like, sometimes when I'm trying to be an art or like, I'm in like artist mode or trying to like perform or like being an artist. It's difficult. Like that looks different. Like me being an artist in my community looks different than like me, whatever the art world or like, right? Me trying to get some grant or like me trying or, you know, me being at some like, you know, what I do or like, I don't know, I, or I guess it, for me, it also always goes back to like having to be strategic all the time, you know, like, and I feel like I've like always felt, I feel like since I was young, like, I think, you know, I think even in ways and Yeah, I think like, I mean, it's difficult. Like, it's really difficult, right? In this world, that's so, so just freaking oppressive and violent consistently. Like, I mean, I don't think that's something I mean, can, can we really deny that? I mean, I mean, we live in like really, in a really violent world and violent times and like, but like, you can show parts of yourself, right? Or like who you are, who you are, like where you come from, right? Like, I feel like, like, I don't, like, I don't know, like it's, it's really rare for me to ever, you know, like for me to feel like I can really like pull or like, or sometimes it's, I don't know. It's just like a, it's a ever shifting thing. Sorry not to get like, what I feel about this stuff. But also like, I don't know, it just feels real. I feel like I always, I, I see, like always feel like I have to be really strategic when my identity is like an artist, you know, and yeah. Totally understand that completely, like, I feel that way my whole life, but I have to be very strategic about the spaces I'm in and, and at me as an artist and the things and the decisions and practices I make and I don't know, everything, especially at Cooper just gave me this, I opened up like, like, really, yeah, feeling like a woman of color from the Bronx coming here to that school, just like, made me aware of how crazy the art world could be and like, things that I hate about and never thought about because I thought it, yeah, yeah, I just never associated with the world being, I don't know, kind of this like white cube space and what it means and Cooper introduced that to me and that was like really crazy. So I understand, and especially when I make work, like, I remember having a crit about a video I made about a ritual and then people were like, okay, so like, what this means to you and blah, blah, blah, and I thought those questions were weird, like, what the fuck, like, I'm not, I don't know, like, they were trying to, like, see if I was exploiting my neighborhood or something or like, what the hell, he's like, they were trying to connect it and I just felt weird, like, this was just who I was and it just naturally came to me and I felt like that was like a question, like, and I felt like I couldn't really just truly be myself, so I had to be aware more about my identity and what I should keep more private and what I want to be real. But lately I've also been making work, I'm just like, fuck it, like, if I'm seeing everything in my life and my reality, the way I make art, like, it feels that way to me, how can I deny that and why should I feel like so trapped at the same time to like, yeah, going back to that fear of expressing my community and who I am and this image, like, I don't know, like, yeah, it's tough, it's tough. Yeah, I mean, I'm not, now I'm thinking about how, like, I mean, your work, like, extensively, but I feel like from what I've seen, like, I feel like we're both really, you know, like, we're both interested in, like, right, like, the aesthetics of, like, our community, right, or like, that's like, reflective in our work and like, yeah, and I feel like it's, and I mean, for me, how, like, I came in to, came to that was also like, you know, like, I went, you know, to the Met with my mom when I was, you know, because, like, that's where, like, you know, something you take and visit, like, like, immigrant family, you know, like, families come visit, like, you take them to the Met sometimes, right, you go to the Statue of Liberty, but, but yeah, I mean, but that's, you know, so grew up understanding art when I was younger, right, like, that art existed within initially thought I under, or, you know, like, how I understood, like, art in aesthetics was like, oh, it lives within these, like, this work is, like, seen as exceptional in these ways, right, and I feel until I got older and, like, also got politicized, you know, that I really, that, like, I mean, it's like, it kind of felt like, like, I don't know, like, like, I really started seeing, you know, like, where, like, I wasn't, I mean, you know, I think also just like, I mean, being, you know, being from New York was like, I mean, like, I'm super proud from, of, like, being from Queens and being from Jackson Heights, but, you know, like, there were also times where, like, I was, like, looking out, where I was, like, trying to, like, get somewhere else, right, because, like, whether that was, like, teenage angst or home stuff, like, family trauma, family drama stuff, right, like, and, like, and that's part of it too, and with my growing up, right, like, sort of looking outward, but then as I got older, I really started looking inward at, like, my family, my home, and really sort of seeing that, like, our culture, aesthetics, everything, right, like, was all around me happening all the time. Yeah, I totally feel you on that, like, I, when I was a teenager, I totally wanted to, like, leave the Bronx, like, I hated it. I hated, like, why I couldn't go to school in Manhattan or, like, have a different type of education that I see on television. And I had, like, a very, like, sadly, like, a white is right, like, white is right, metallic, like, I believe that, like, you know, white people had a better office shit, and I hated where I grew up because it was so poor, and my, like, family situation, and, like, yeah, not having easy access, and it was just being difficult. But then I, like, the same thing I grew up and, like, became more aware of what was going on and how, like, yeah, how structural this is, and, like, the shit that, like, happens, there's no coincidence in our communities, and, like, understanding there's a true value and that we deserve, like, having those, like, equitable rights of, like, education and air and just breathing and, I don't know, just, like, everything, and just, like, have a good quality of life. And now I appreciate my community, and I know there's just so much shit that's, like, wrong with it at the same time, and I'm never gonna, like, disregard that, but I also don't want to, like, run away, and, like, I don't know, like, hate it anymore because this is what, like, made me, like, I can't, you know? So I feel you on that completely, and even, yeah, I was just also thinking of the Met, like, as a kid, I totally had to understand what you mean by identifying that and then also becoming more politicized and then just understanding more of how you're feeling, like, yeah, going back to Cooper, going on class trips to the Met and seeing these, like, treasures and based on, like, I don't know, they're, like, indigenous, like, treasures. If you go to, like, the African, like, textiles and everything that happened there and, like, you know, even, like, South American stuff and just the exhibition and where they come from and then I'm like, man, like, I wish, like, kids from the Bronx are able to, like, come here more often, you know, have this experience, but I don't want to be having this experience, like, Cooper, like, the entire time I keep having this access and stuff, like, this shit that's, like, part of our cultural history and I don't want to feel like the Met and institutions own that, like, I want to feel like, you know, I can connect to this and I hate how that kind of changed my view of art a bit, like, not connecting anymore to me. When it's really, like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's just, like, I don't know. It's hard, because this would be easily existential and it is already becoming, because I feel like, yeah, it's hard to talk about our neighborhoods and not feel so personally, you know, connected about it as a way of who you are, too, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, obviously, I mean, these are, you know, these are big things that were, like, you know, important things, but I mean, I don't know, like, I think it's, I mean, I definitely think that it's good to feel uneasy about this stuff. So if you, because they're power dynamics that you and they're structural things that um, that um, negotiate and like, um, yeah, and I guess, now I'm trying, I'm like, you know, I'm trying to think of, like, how this, like, all these ideas sort of sit with me on, like, a more daily basis and I'm like, you know, I feel like, I feel like what's been understanding, like, my position and my history of, like, how I became an artist and, like, a connection to also, like, the privileges that I might. I think what's really something that's really important to me and that, like, I feel, like, really adamant about, right? It's, like, I mean, sort of what you were saying, like, it's, like, not all from the artists and the creativity that exists in my neighborhood, right? Like, the one, like, not, and to be real that these aren't the artists or the kind of creativity that's, like, acknowledged or, like, really, it's not the kind that is, like, visible in a way where, like, you know, like, but, like, but I'm, like, or, like, when people talk about, like, I don't know, if, like, like, in Jackson Heights, like, when people are talking of artists in, like, Jackson Heights need or what do artists in Queens need, right? I'm always, like, like, who are the artists? Like, right, about all the people with ladies here, you know, like, or are we talking about, like, the woman that's, like, making tamales or the, you know, the woman that's, like, selling her, like, you know, her crafts or, like, or, like, you know, like, who's making, like, you know, like, decorations for, like, who are the artists that we're talking about, like, and being really clear that, like, I'm not interested in, like, exclusively talking about the artists who are, like, with MFA's or, like, who've had particular kinds of, like, you know, and like, we, like, we can't define, like, artists within that, like, limited context. It's, like, it's, you know, people and, like, yeah. Right, you're right, because like, not for nothing, like, ooh, like, yeah, being around the Bronx and stuff, I can easily see how, like, artists' communities and how you start seeing people and it's great because it builds a network and a community, but then there's so many other artists that are outside that I feel like we all have the similar, like, privilege and access, like, we all have, like, yeah, the MFA or went to, like, residencies and, you know, have knowledge in this world and stuff, but there's, like, so, like, yeah, art is just, like, goes beyond that completely and I totally know what you mean, like, I know people who, like, have, like, such, like, a crafter, so technical and they, you know, just from, like, collecting everyday images and, I mean, objects and, like, recycling them and then turning into, like, very, like, detail work that they, like, sell on the street, you know and there's, like, a special art to that or, like, art that's, like, very native to us too and I feel like I know, yeah, there's just, like, art that everyone is doing all the time, whether that's written in poetry or just, like, yeah, and it's all around this and I, and, yeah, and I want people to feel more connected, like, we can make art because I, and I felt that way before I went to Cooper that it was, like, such a a free thing, like, it was just, like, a beautiful, like, make art for art's sake, you know, like, anything and everything is art and then I come in and I realize there's categories and what an art world dominates and then there's, like, clicks and then there's, like, there's the two show and there's, like, an academic history to it and there's, like, yeah, there's all these, like, figures I didn't know any shit about and I hate that, like, yeah, so I agree, I, yeah, I want people, I don't know, and that's what I want to bring back to my, like, if I can do that in my residency is make people feel more connected to art and art making and how I don't know, there's a lot of power that we have and I feel like it's just undervalued by the art world a bit or they, like, profit off of it, you know, our extreme but it's not it's not genuinely appreciated, like, what we do is magical and awesome and beautiful, I don't know, it's just, yeah, and I want people to feel that way too about it and not feel, like, ashamed about it either of where the art and the community comes from, like, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, those are some of my desires for, like, my project as well, like, I, I mean, it's, you know, sometimes it's hard too because you're, like, I mean, making art, like, in your community with your community and stakes and, like, you know, insecurities attached to that, at least for me too, I mean, you know, like, I mean, I'm from here, but I'm also my experience is also particular in some ways and, like, you know, I don't think everyone shares my experiences and so, um, when thinking about my project, I'm, like, you know, I really, like, hope that this resonates with people and, like, and that it also, like, reflects I mean, right? I'm building, like, a living room installation and that's, you know, that's a lot, a lot of that was informed through, like, like, me realizing all, like, the thought, care and creativity that, like, my mom home, right? And, like, um, and, like, a consistent thing, like, throughout, like, my life, right? Realizing how, like, right, all that energy creates, like, a particular kind of space, right? Like, a particular kind of intimate space. And, and, like, and so wanting to recreate that to also, yeah, it's, like, kind of, like, it's, like, for me, it feels like of our homes, right? Um, not something that feels, like, yeah, I don't know. But, um, yeah, then it's, like, hard because it's too, like, um, you know, like, for me, my first priority is, like, that this might, like, my direct community, right, is able to come into, feel comfortable, be able to, like, have conversations and engage, like, the artwork, you know, like, the art-making process. Um, but then I also, yeah, I also, like, you know, I mean, also, like, um, just, like, honestly, like, right, like, we're doing these projects through organization, right? And through, like, for me, a commission, right? And so, like, then there's all these things that we have to negotiate with that. But I feel, like, I don't know. I mean, I think about that stuff all the time, and it makes me uncomfortable, and then I get really, like, thin stuff. But, you know, like, it almost makes me want to give up a bit, like, not being an artist sometimes. Like, that, like, this is, or me personally, like, it can make me, like, exhausted and just feel so tired, like, and I, and it's hard because it's, like, a lot of it, I mean, it's not just being an artist, but also being, like, an activist and being raised with that mindset, like, just being aware of so much injustices that happen in my community that goes beyond, like, us that happen systematically to us, and it's just, I don't know, yeah, it's just, it's hard because I want to make work about that, and I want to be real about it and make it feel real. But then how, I haven't figured that out, and I don't know if I could ever figure that out honestly of, like, yeah, not feeling insecure about showing who I am, and even if it's, like, a literal image of graffiti, that's still, like, that means so much still at the same time, and it's so loaded of what people could read into it, and, and, and, yeah, and just, like, get from it. I don't know, it's hard. Yeah, I always feel, like, I'm putting myself out there when I make the work I make, and I, and I hate it, like, I just sometimes wish, like, or see how easy it is to just be, like, a white male and not give any fuck and do, like, the most minimal shit, and then people could talk, like, so much about it, and then I bring in these pieces that are, like, so closely related to who I am, and it's just, like, people can't talk about it, the type of shit, and I'm like, what? Like, I don't know, and then I feel even more insecure, or that they get really into it, and super excited, and I'm just, like, uh, like, that's kind of weird, like, this is not for you to get excited about, so it, it goes to those weird pollers that I don't know, yeah, it's, it's uneasy, I feel uneasy, even doing this coquita card is something I personally love and brings, like, nostalgia, and, and I see it as familiar, and it's, like, and and even seeing, like, kids and make them happy to, like, eat the treats and stuff, and appreciate if that is also free in the summer, but I had to be aware of, like, yeah, like, I'm an artist, and who I am, and my axis, and the privileges I have, I guess, I have to admit to also, like, yeah, the people who do these cards are running, like, you know, I have to be aware about the spaces I'm entering, and, and what I'm doing, and, yeah, it's, it's yeah, it's uneasy, and in a direction. I was just, I feel like that's, like, a particular thing, or how, um, kind of, like, outing yourself, also, kind of in your community, like, sometimes, honestly, like, I feel, like, a little embarrassed, nervous, when I'm, like, especially if it's, like, I don't know, I'm, like, oh, I'm an artist, because I know all the stuff that's, like, attached to that, but, like, you know, like, what? Like, that's not a job. Like, obviously, like, that's, like, that's not all that I, that's not how I make, you know, I'm, like, really making a living, but, um, but yeah, I mean, I think I don't, I mean, I know that, like, all this, it's not always, it's not just, like, a black and white thing, right? It's not just, like, we do, like, because, because, you know, because we're always, like, engaging, engaging, and we're we're also, like, you know, we're oftentimes, like, we complicit in them, right? Like, and we always have to, like, like, be real about it, and then try to, like, challenge it. Um, but I also feel like, you know, I think within all that and with, you know, that we're gonna fuck up, that we're probably, yeah, that we're that we're probably gonna fuck up, maybe do, you know, like, that we have the capacity to be, to perpetuate violence, right? That we have the, like, a whatever, like, I think within that, like, also something that I try to hold is, like, I'm, like, within that, it also feels, sometimes it does feel like they're clear sides, you know, and I know who I'm aligned with, like, you know, and, like, or, like, and I know what I care about and I'm, like, I don't know in some, like, way, you know, just, like, trying to, like, stay true to that and, like, because I'm not here for, like, the fucking white art world, you know, like, as much, as much, I mean, that's, like, that's not the cool thing to say or, like, the strategic thing to say ever, but, um, but why I'm here, that's not what's, like, kept me alive, that's not what's, like, given me, you know, like, like, like, yeah. Why? That's not what's, like, given me, you know, like, like, that's not it. So, yeah. That's interesting. Yeah, I always have to think about my motivations as being an artist and that there's a lot of, like, creative benefits to it. And there's a lot of ways that, like, yeah, we have a set of challenges that we're able to address and how can we address it. And I don't know. It's tough. It is, it is really tough. What else do you want to say? I kind of just lost my train of thought. I'm not gonna lie. It's just so much. It's just so good shit, but, like, ugh. We've been talking, I know, we've been talking for half an hour. It's all good. And it's great. I don't know yet. It's a really deep conversation to have about.