 Yeah, this is Hawaii, the state of clean energy, organized and created and continued by Hawaii Energy Policy Forum for probably close to 10 years now. And Mitch Ewing, who is the regular host, my co-host today is here with us. And Shannon Tanganot of Hawaiian Electric is here. And Mark Glick is here from HNEI. But Mitch, can you give these guys a proper introduction so we know more about who they are? We're going to talk about Hawaiian Electric. We're going to talk about HNEI both. You pretty well stole all my script with your opening there, Jay. What a go. Anyway, I'm pleased to welcome Shannon Tanganot, Tanganot. She's a spokesperson for Hawaiian Electric. And she's going to give us the latest hot news from Hawaiian Electric. And we also have one of my colleagues from HNEI, Mark Glick, who's the HNEI Energy Policy Specialist. And he's going to talk to us and give us an update on what the heck is going on with the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum, which is to sponsor a correction underwriter for our show today. So, Shannon and Mark, welcome to the show. And Shannon, let's start with you. And so what is hot at Hawaiian Electric? Well, thanks, Mitch. And thanks for having us. Really, we just announced a really big initiative. And we announced last Friday that we are cutting carbon emissions from power generation 70% by 2030. And we're not stopping there. We also pledged net zero emissions by 2045. Wow, that's pretty aggressive. And it's good to have those stretch goals, because you never know when you might actually be able to meet them. Yeah, they are definitely stretch goals. But we think that bold action needs to be taken if we really want to address the effects of climate change. So there's a lot that goes into this. We have to add generation. We have to retire coal. We have to retire another six generating units from our power generation. So there's so many factors. And the commitment really is to keep these projects on track to do our best to get all these new generation online and in a timely fashion. Because AES is going to be retired in September of 2022. So we need to prepare for that and beyond. So I have some questions about this. When you say 70%, it's a 70% reduction from what was going on in the year 2005, which is 16 years ago. So we are already on the continuum from 2005 to 2030, which is eight years from now. Where are we? Because we've finished 2 thirds of that period already. And if I divide 70% by 2 thirds, I get something 55% already done. Is that true? No. We are at 24%. We were at 24% at the end of 2020. So we do have a ways to go. We have 46% more reduction needed. So the speed of going clean energy would now have to increase dramatically to actually make up between now and the 2030 deadline at 70%. Yes, definitely. I mean, we need to act now. We need to act during this decade. So really, all the renewable energy projects that are in the pipeline, those need to come online. We have to put out more RFPs. We've already done one for stage three for Hawaii Island. That's recent. We've done that recently. We just need to keep going and making sure that we're on track to meet these goals. I mean, this is going to take a lot of work. Well, it certainly is. And it's going to be obstacles too. Let me go through the list that was in the newspaper about this are the things you're going to do. One, you're going to shut down the state's last coal plant in 2022. September, you said, actually, there's a statute adopted by the legislature a couple of years ago that requires that. So that really absolutely has to happen. But the discussion has been with the PUC that whether you will have enough other energy to replace what has been coming out of the AES coal plant to keep on lighting the lights. I think no person will have enough generation. Where is that going to come from, Shannon? Renewable energy. We also have coming online the KES, couple of energy storage. And then we have more than a dozen of renewable energy projects that we have coming online. It's not going to be tomorrow, but it's definitely in the works. And we're working toward getting all those online in a timely fashion. Some of the projects have even committed to an earlier deadlines coming on even earlier than they had initially said. So all that is in the works. Energy want to add another 50,000 rooftop solar systems to the 90,000 that we already have. I want to ask you about that. We have 90,000 now rooftop solar in the operating area for Hawaiian Electric. And you guys want to do 50,000 more. That's half again as much. And my question to you is, how can you control those 50,000? Because that's really not within your ability to control, is it? How does Hawaiian Electric achieve the next 50,000 in the next eight years? We really need to make the process easier. I think sometimes in the past people have gotten a little discouraged by the length of time it takes. So we've introduced different programs, Quick Connect. Now we have battery bonus. So there's incentive, cash incentive for battery bonus. And just in general, wanting to do the right thing, putting a rooftop solar on your home if you're able. So with all that in the works, with all these programs that make it quicker to get your system online, everything is going to be speeding up in this decade. So as we get to the next 20 years. One of the things that has been involved in the legislature for the past three years has been a bill that would allow for tax credit on adding storage to an existing solar facility on a rooftop. And the ledge has not seen fit to pass that bill yet. And to me, that would be a very important incentive because incentivized solar in general to have the tax credit on existing facilities. So does the plan, I mean, such as it is the Hawaiian Electric Plan, include trying to get that bill passed? Because that would be meaningful in achieving the next 50,000 rooftop solar systems, no? You know, I would have to check with our government relations staff. But I think in general, we support initiatives that would speed the adoption of rooftop solar of storage. So we're always keeping track of those kinds of measures. We definitely want to see more. We have to see more if we want to reach these goals. So we're going to do whatever we can in our power to get all these projects online and make it easier and quicker to get these systems online. OK. The newspaper also reported that you were going to retire at least six fossil fuel generating units and reduce the use of others, I suppose. Can you give me a time frame on that? Because eight years is not a long time. And as you take them offline, these will be oil, I guess. As you take them offline, you're going to have to have the renewables to replace them. So what does that look like? You know, we don't have a set timetable. We do know that renewables are going to be coming online, whether it be two years from now, three years from now. As those come online, then we're going to be able to retire some of these units. So it really is always been a balancing act. We just need to make sure that we have reliable power for our customers. So it'll be a long process. But the goal is 70% reduction by 2030. And we're sticking to that. We want to take bold action now so that we can have a better future or create a better future for our children and grandchildren. But you have to deal with issues. I mean, for example, I read about just when I was preparing for the show, I read about the NG, it's a French company, supposed to do what? A solar, I think, a big solar facility on the Big Island. And they pulled out. And then there's another, what is it? KES, I think, they're also pulling out of their project. So it's not pulling out of their project. No, there was another one. I don't remember. Mitch, do you remember which one? Anyway, there's another one. I can't remember the name of it. And so what you have is, I want to call it a marketplace that is not entirely predictable. And one thing and another, outside of the utility's ability to control these things, it's like one step forward and what happens now? So it may not be easy. And if you want to push forward in the eight years remaining on this initiative, it's not always going to be as you predict. I mean, are you factoring that in? Yeah, I mean, we definitely have factored projects dropping out, new projects coming in. So again, it is unpredictable, but we're doing all we can to make sure that there's a good pipeline of projects in the mix and moving forward. Because that's really all we can do. We want to make sure that getting rooftop solar is not going to take forever. And we definitely address that. We have quick connect programs that allow people to just really just put their system online, kind of like the NEM days in the past, where you just apply, you get your system online, and then you figure out the paperwork later. And all the bureaucratic things that slow you down, those will all be taken care of at the back end. It strikes me though, Shannon, that you have been like quick connect is not brand new. And there are a lot of projects out there, utility scale solar that have been submitted to the PUC that are pending. There are a lot of things over the recent years that Wine Electric has been doing and attempting to do all over its operating area in order to do this. So my question to you is what is different about this initiative, the 70% initiative, than what's been going on anyway? You know, that's a great question. It's really just pushing forward and just making sure that we say this is what we're going to do and stick to that. It's really about moving toward that goal and just making sure that we do all we can to reach it. Net zero by 2045, that's going to be tough as well. It's going to make sure that if we're generating more, that we're offsetting, it's a balancing act. And we just need to make sure that we're taking some bold action, that we're being aggressive as we move forward with projects, that we're being accommodating and making sure that we're working with communities so that we don't get held up in the process moving forward with a project and then at the very end. Speed up processing of connection, processing of applications, and so on. You say 2045, ultimately, I recall. Maybe you can remind me of this or somebody can. That at one point, we had the state target at 2045, but Hawaiian Electric said 2040. I haven't heard that recently, but I do remember that that was the case. There was a difference, that the utility was more optimistic than the state target, do you recall? Yeah, I think in the past we have said, let's try for 2040. I think given all that we've seen as far as carbon emissions and like you said, some projects won't reach the very end. I think what we're trying to do is have a stretch goal, but just be realistic about all the different factors that can occur, all the different factors, whether it be supply chain issues with our renewable projects that are going to be coming online. A lot of them are experiencing that right now. Here's a big question, Shannon. As we go down the path here, the path from what? November, almost December of 2021 to September of 2022 when the coal plant has to close. And as we go down the path from there to 2030 with all of these really extraordinary changes you're talking about, will you come back and talk to us about it? Because we would like to track it through with you, Shannon. We want to hear about all these moves going forward. Yes, for sure. I have a quick question. I want to get a word in edgewise, Jerry. So my question is, this solar with battery storage is a really great program. So my question is, what's been the appetite for rooftop owners for the private people, the general public? What's been the uptake? And are they enthusiastic about that? Are they really going after this? Has this been a popular program? This is a popular program. We've had some hiccups as far as just getting everything to get it because it's a brand new program. So I think we're ironing out some of the issues that have slowed the process a little. And we're getting very good response from customers. I mean, who doesn't want to have cash to put up energy storage? So yeah, it's definitely moving along. And we're anxious to see where it ends up. But I think it will help and it will help drive up our numbers. I'd like to add something to that, Mitch. Just as we go forward in climate change, there'll be the risk of and maybe the fact of extreme weather. And nothing appeals to a homeowner more than having independent power source just in case. And so I think a lot of people will be motivated by the ongoing threat of climate change to get into rooftop solar. I think that will probably drive your numbers up, Shannon. And maybe also plugging their electric vehicles in and running off the battery. Another important factor, sure. Mark, a little time for you. Do you have anything you want to ask Shannon about or add to this conversation? Well, obviously, it's always good news when the utility is taking a proactive stance and moving forward aggressively on things like greenhouse gas mitigation directly through its use of more renewables. I think one of the things that I would encourage and I wanted to ask whether or not, I know it's early on in the program. You just announced it. But I would encourage that you take a look at how you also describe it in ways and metrics that we already understand, like the RPS. So essentially, how far beyond at 2030 are we gonna be beyond 40% the requirement? It will take something more than that, I believe. So it would be really interesting and I think very positive to be able to say how far beyond the statute you're going to go. So I'd be very interested in seeing that as this program evolves. I think if I'm not mistaken in our next release, it did say that by 2030, we'll be nearing 70%. Exciting, I'm excited. Hawaii is a leader. Doesn't really want, yeah. Go ahead, sorry. This announcement, Shannon, this initiative, this determination to move ahead even quicker. Does it have anything to do with the fact that COP26 is going on right now in Glasgow? Not at all. Okay. Yes, and definitely that was our, that was, we wanted the timing to just be instinct with COP26, we wanted to make sure there's a focus now on climate change action plan. So we wanted to make sure that we rode that wave. Yeah, well, it's perfect timing, isn't it? It just happens to be. Everybody's really interested around the world. It's not just in Scotland, but it's, you know, it's everybody talking about it. So this is perfect point to include in the conversation. Thank you, Shannon. We're going to move on to Mark now. Thank you for coming around. I hope we see you again soon. Take care. Stay safe. Hello. So Mark, thank you for coming down. Welcome to your show. Actually, it's Mitch's show, but you are definitely part of it as the guy at the HNEI who is now in the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum position, so to speak. So can you talk about how things have evolved with regard to the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum and its move from the School of Social Sciences under Denise Conan to HNEI under Rick Rochelow? Sure. I mean, that's really a lot to talk about. And, you know, I thought it might make sense. I kind of wanted to view it in terms of the past, the present and the future, hopefully with a lot of focus on where we are now and where we want to head. But, you know, I think it's always nice to remind people how the Energy Policy Forum came about. And, you know, I know you've been watching it from, obviously you've had this key role for more than 10 years, but it got started back in May of 2002 in the School of Social Sciences with strong support from Hawaiian Electric Company. And the original purpose, which sounds a little glib today was to reduce Hawaii's dependence on imported oil. And this happened not coincidentally, right at the time of, well, essentially it kind of marked the fact that from 1973, from when that major oil shock when the oil embargo from Arab states, essentially as a penalty for the Yom Kippur War in 1973, essentially put an embargo on all of those who were involved in supporting Israel in that effort, an embargo on oil. And that was essentially the first modern oil shock and it led to a true oil crisis, but nothing significantly happened. You know, you probably recall that in every state in the nation, Congress passed laws and provided funding to set up energy offices in each of the states back in 73, 74. From that time, there was some progress in some states, but not very much. I try to remind us that you were the state energy officer for a while. You know, we didn't mention that yet, Mitch. We should talk about it now. So you bring a lot to the table having occupied that role, not only historically, but you know, in terms of the depth of knowledge about the energy community. Well, yeah, I mean, there's definitely a heavy appreciation of that, but you know, even before that, I was in the Office of Water Affairs. And back in 19, well, back in 2002, well, 2003 is when I first became involved in the energy policy forum. And you know, a key effort, there were briefings that went on then on analysis and briefings on climate change and the international efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions. This is in 2002, they commissioned a study on changing oil and gas supply patterns and FACTS Global, federal and federal office involved in that. Had experts come up with concepts and plans for regulation, taxation and incentives? I remember, there was a lot of activity. And in recent years, that activity has slowed down. Yeah, I mean, it's really the perfect time for HNAI to step in and revitalize the energy policy forum. But let me turn it over to Mitch, because Mitch I'm sure has some questions. He was there too, just like all of us, right? Yeah, well, it's been quite, like you said, Mark, it's been quite an evolution. I think one of the other drivers is that there was a lot of aggravation, a lot of conflict between all the different parties. And I think one of the reasons, the other reason the forum was put in place back in the day was to reduce these conflicts and get everybody talking to each other rather than putting the mattresses to the door and fighting each other and try to come to common ground and get a consensus. And I think that was very successful actually to reduce the level of aggravation or conflict and then get people to really agree on, okay, I can live with this solution. I have to give a little bit, you have to take a little bit and we'll come to an agreed solution and then go forward with a policy that everybody in the forum agreed to, that the legislators knew that most of the conflicts had been ironed out and it made it a lot easier to pass some really good legislation. In particular, another big initiative was getting adequate funding for the PUC and for the consumer advocate who had been totally underfunded and couldn't basically just couldn't do their job. And so now we have a really great PUC which is very active in doing good things and getting national recognition and also with the DCA. So these are some of the legacy that we had from the policy forum but I would have to say that over the last few years that activity has basically slacked off mainly because we solved a lot of the conflicts. And so- This is the perfect time and Mark is the perfect guy to talk to about this because we're in a period of revitalization where the energy policy forum will take a more active role in terms of advocacy is the wrong word raising public awareness about energy issues. And so Mark, really important and we would like to hear from you about this but what's the plan going forward? There's a new time. There's new reasons for the energy policy forum to participate in a public sphere and within the industry itself and within the offices of the university. What is going to happen? How do you see this going forward? Yeah, and that brings it full circle. So where we are today, of course, you know, there have been changes and when the discussion arose this summer with Rick Rochelow and Denise Conan and others about trying to keep it alive, we said at HNEI that extremely important for all the reasons you just said, there does need to be a centralized place with the state and premature, with the trustworthiness of the state knowing that we're really looking out for the public interest. And there's no question about that, that there is somebody to be able to openly lay out the analysis to be able to bring people together to be able to ask the difficult questions but in a very constructive positive way. And so we decided in taking this thing on and transferring all the activity now within HNEI to take our role as a kind of an unbiased analyst to be able to try to bring a little bit more science-based approach into really three areas. And one of them, and we're gonna be reaching out to the membership, the past membership, we're gonna be reaching out and creating new members that have a lot of interest that we're not simply part of it in the past, particularly as we get into this integrated market with more transportation, electric vehicles and so on. One of the three areas, focus areas that we wanna delve deeply into is kind of the traditional one, the high penetration renewable analysis and planning and essentially continuing to make transparent the integrate grid planning process, make it sort of understandable for those who are not in it day to day and dealing with data collection and hopefully recent studies, some of them that we have conducted or that we've commissioned at HNEI and others that we're aware of that will help answer some of the key questions. We continue to get questions from legislators all the time about what's the trade-offs between batteries and different generation sources and particularly the intermittent generation sources and how are we gonna meet our targets? I think there are some very clear answers to that in recent analysis. I think there's even some, there was a wonderful point that you raised, Jay, when you asked about, essentially you were asking about inverter-based technologies and if you're gonna have 50,000 new rooftop solar installations, how are you gonna manage that effectively? Well, there are some really interesting answers. I wanna be able to bring those things to the table. You could help a wine electric. Your scientists, your technology, the work you've already done and the work you can do now to respond to the issues that they will undoubtedly have in terms of trying to meet their own goals here. But let me go a little further and say, the community, in my view, needs you. The community needs that scientific, analytic-based approach because that is a gathering point and we can't possibly anticipate the contribution you could make on those issues because we don't know exactly what they are yet. We will find out and I look forward. I wanna speak for myself now. I think I speak for Mitch also. I look forward to having you on the show over and over again to help us track what is going on in the community, in the industry, the utility industry, for example, in the installation industry and certainly in the scientific research and analysis industry that happens, not only at HNEI but in other departments at the university. I mean, think about all the sciences here, but we're almost out of time, Mitch. So can I ask you to chime in here? You can, so I think there's a very good future for the policy forum. I'm glad to see that Mark is in the chair and taking this leadership role and I look forward to supporting it the best way I can. So we've been listening to Mark Lick of the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum and now HNEI. The other way, the other way was HNEI then the, okay, I just wanna spring that out. Mark is agreeing with me. I'm not the only HNEI now, which is a good thing. So that's it for my show for this week and the 28 minutes now evolved into, we're up minute 34. So we need to sign off. And so this is Hawaii, the state of clean energy, signing off and we'll see you in one or two weeks. Aloha. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.