 Good evening and welcome back to The First Time Homebuyer Show. I'm your host, Estie Klaasen. This evening I'm chatting to an absolutely amazing writer, author, poet, senior analyst. The list is endless. He literally does a little bit of everything. And that is no other than Bukang Margello, the poet, the author, absolutely spectacular human being. If you have read any of his work, you need to do that right now. Good evening, Bukang. How are you? I'm good. I'm well. Thank you so much for taking the time, giving us a tour. We got a tour of this home book. And recently, you're a new First Time Homebuyer. You've been here for, you said about six months? Yeah, I've been here for six months. So it's very new. How's that been? Tell us a little bit about that. It's been an amazing experience. I've lived in a few places around Gobegg and moving into space, where it's more quiet, it's a huge space. And most of the time, I'm spending it alone. It's been, like I said, it's been amazing. Yeah, and of course, the quiet serenity helps with writing these amazing poems that you do. You can get, I get to unwind at the end of the day with a glass of wine upstairs on the balcony and just reflect on the day and just write and create art. And I'm sure getting to where you are right now wasn't easy, right? And I mean, throughout your poetry, you speak of, and I just resonate with all of your poems. Like I see what you're saying and I'm like, wow, there's been a day in my life where I felt like this, where I saw someone like this and felt that just that energy. You write, your writing is powerful. And I just actually, sometimes I actually read it and I cry, especially like on your Twitter and I also read the little snippets that you sent me, absolutely amazing, which we're going to share shortly. But before we get there, you also own two startup companies, right? So like I said, a little bit of everything. Yeah, I own a what do you call a vanity publishing company where we help other upcoming writers in the publishing genie. I also own, I've had own APR company which focuses mainly on writers. So yeah, I'm a bit of here and there. Yeah. And just last night, I was actually listening to a podcast about someone asked a very popular motivational speaker and entrepreneur and property investor. They asked him, they were like, do you believe that every time you start a company or do you believe that every time you make a little bit of money, you have to give back to the community? For me, it's not even about making a little bit. Sometimes I intentionally create projects where they will generate something so that I can take that money and give it to another artist for their projects. I believe a lot in building up a community of what you are doing in different industries. So whenever I have that means, that's why I started my vanity publishing company so that we can give back. I believe that once you have space and you are in that space, it's important for you to open up that door and allow others in. Yeah, and he was also talking about just the mere fact that we exist, we have to give back or we should be giving back. It shouldn't even be a question. And I totally resonated with that. So you started poetry way back when in high school, right? What inspired you? I mean, high school people are worried about very different things. You weren't writing, no were they reading actually. But yeah, what inspired you? I have to credit my English teacher, Mr. Amulete, who was very passionate about poetry and when we did poetry in high school, I know that a lot of people hated it but for us and the way he just presented, it was with so much vigour and passion and it sparked that thing in me. I've always loved writing but when you got introduced to poetry in his classes, it was different. He was saying, I just know I just need to write. Right. And because you spoke a lot about, I've already explained what your writing does for me, how it makes me feel. What is your intention when you write? Does every poem have a different intention or is there one main? I think there's not one main intention but like with most of my writing, it's a way to say, I feel what you're feeling, you know? Because especially in this time, in this COVID time, we've been so isolated, you know, you think that what you are feeling, you are the only person who's feeling that when I write, I write to say, this is how I'm feeling and I know that if I put it out there, someone else will reach out and say, I feel the same. I resonate with you and that's exactly what I said, how your poems make me feel. Do you, would you say that your writing has changed from high school to now? Obviously. It has changed, you know, in high school it was very unstructured, it was free, it was paperless, you know, it was, it was just to boost my skill of writing. Now it has changed into a, let's talk, you know, let's address these issues that we have faced. I talk about mental health, I talk about trauma, I talk about love and relationships, you know, I talk about loneliness, where it's what we young adults are going through, you know? And also the most amazing thing that I've taken, it's, I've seen it, it also leads out to the older generation which I did not think it would reach out to. Yeah. It's been an awakening for me, you know, I thought I was writing for specific people for specific time, but it's showing that even one can just pick up the book and... Right, and understand and resonate. It doesn't need to be with everything but there is, one poem is going to speak to you. Yeah. And there's no doubt about that. So you say you want to start this conversation, you want to start dialogue around mental health, around loneliness, around love. Have you seen or have you heard or seen on Twitter, wherever your platforms may be, have you seen the conversation actually start and come alive? I have seen the conversation that's come alive. I've been invited to book clubs, you know. I've seen people having discussions separate away from me about my work, you know. And for me it was also an awakening to say, you know, what you're doing is actually quite important. Right. And that's, and you know, one of my biggest questions, because you're juggling, you're not juggling a lot, but you've got a lot going on for you, right? No. It's a senior analyst, poet, writer, and still managing two companies, right? Yeah. And I've always asked myself, because I'm going to bring it back to owning a home, which is so important, and what does it mean for Wukong to own a home? Yeah, especially now with everything, with the pandemic and stuff. That's why I felt I needed a place where I can be free, I can move around. You know, we are so restricted from movement now. Exactly. And I needed a space where I can breathe. Also, I needed something, because I feel like in my companies, in my writing, in my IT, you know, I always, someone or something always has an ownership part, ownership of it. And I needed something that's just mine, and I can just, at the end of the day, when I put everything away, you know, come back to it and find peace in it. You're also very intentional about only sharing your poetry, or mainly your poetry on social media, where but maybe, instead of sharing things about your job, what you do for a living, why is that? Why do you only share the poetry and not like, oh, today I had a bad day at work? I'm actually that person. Every Monday, I think around 9, 10 a.m., I'm always like, okay, everyone, we've done enough. On a Monday, let's take a rest, then we get started. I'm that person. I think that's why people also relate to me, it's not only sharing poetry, it's only giving people insight into my life, into my everyday life. I don't share what I do specifically, but I get to share what I'm going through throughout the day. You know, yesterday I had a tweet where I was saying, adulting is so difficult, and it reaches you out while you're sitting in a meeting, and you get a question, a management question, and you're like, is this question direct to me? And you remember your job, thank you, day and day. It's things like that, you know. In Florida Day, I'll share how my day is going. I share a lot about wine, my partnership with a brand, Cigella Wines, where I talk about wine, I talk about poetry, I talk about IT. I'm also having Twitter trolls. I joke around a lot. You do indeed, I've seen. And I wanted to talk a little bit, because you're reading, like you said, it's amazing that it's reached the older generation, and also started a discussion amongst the elderly. And I resonate so much with that because my thesis that I did recently was how I can bridge that gap between the youth and the elderly, right, and your poetry is a way of doing that, mine was just theatre. And I think it's so important to hear what the older generation has to say, because in most cases we leave home and we're just like, everything our parents or grandmothers have taught us, we only realize these lessons now, like reaching 30, you're like, oh, my mom was around. So it's so amazing that they can still talk to, or resonate with you. And on that note, you talk a lot about how self-reflection comes into your work and into your poetry. And you, of course, do a lot of that. In order to write about it, you need to live it, right? I'm all for experiential learning. You talk about, oh yes, so of course you also need to self-reflect in order to write about self-reflection. But do you write with the intention that the reader's going to always understand you? I believe that in my writing, I write for myself first. And also be honest. I advocate about honesty in my work. I think when I'm honest with myself, I enable the other person to relate and be honest with themselves. And I think for me it comes from there. It's not what I'm writing for you. It's me just being honest in my work. Which is another powerful thing. And just behind you, you have all these awards. And we want to talk a little bit about that. Because you're not just writing for yourself. You're a published poet. You've got these awards. So let's talk a little bit about the awards behind you. And not even how did it feel when receiving this? Because I'm sure in the moment you were ecstatic and it was amazing. But did you know that you'd be getting this award on the night? Like the feeling? I didn't. I didn't. When I got the first one in 2018 for my IT career, I was still, like I've always said, I was still new in that career. In everything that I do, I'm always overly dedicated. And I've been blessed to work for an amazing company that recognizes my work. And they have begun rewarding that. And on the night, I felt privileged to even be acknowledged. And for a huge international IT company to say, you know, throughout the year you've been on fire and you are our employee of the year, it was, yeah, I was taken aback. But like, you know, you get to have that moment to say it took a lot to get here. It wasn't just an overnight success. Again, reflecting. Because then you also, you know, when other people realize your worth, you need to realize your worth before others do. I mean, the award was just the cherry on the top. And then on this note of privilege, I want to talk about this because I too am a creator, creative, sorry, and in the industry of whether it's film, writing, especially within South Africa. Do you think if you were only a writer or only a published poet, that you could have had the privilege to sit in your own home? I don't know. I will not be honest. It's as an artist, it's hard navigating the industry, especially for someone like me, I'm totally independent. And yeah, we are not creating the revenues that what we see on TV as a successful artist, it's portrayed. You know, you get to be there, you are a writer now, you are a published author. But like, there are lots of coming as you forego. And you also have to navigate spaces, you know. You are finding people who are already there, who already own this space, who you cannot just come in and... Exactly. Yeah. Because people are already there, and it's so, especially in South Africa, it's so difficult for us to even try and make that first step. And it's just, I think the money is not enough in the entertainment industry in South Africa. So, and that's a sad truth. I mean, I always ask my friends, because all of them are creatives, and I mean, not a lot can say that they've bought this property, that they have something of an investment like this. And I hate the term struggling artist. I hate that term so much. I think we need to rebuke it from our vocale, because the more we say it, the more we're manifesting it. Change your lingo, you know. What about you achieving and manifesting these great things? Because I do think it's possible. I just think we're going to take a little bit longer. It's going to take time. Because also, it's not about struggling artists and stuff like it. Readers too. Our audience are also struggling. If the audience, if the reader, does not have the funds to buy your book, it means that you cannot sell. It means that you cannot create revenue, you know. But I'm hopeful. People are finding more ways to be creative, finding more ways to make a living. And like I said, you know, as we build communities too, as me as an artist, I open up space for another person. It also allows a little revenue to come into that person's space. And it also gets to come back to me. And also hopeful at the fact that artists are not limiting themselves to one specific craft. You know, we create as we can. And it's about trying to do these things. I'm sure when you started up your own company, you didn't think, oh, I could be a business owner. No. But once you're in it, you're like, I can do this. Yeah, yeah. You get there. Exactly. I want to move to owning a home, right? So what I'm talking about in my journey is, of course, not an easy one. Coming in here, listening to the conversation, talking about all these hidden costs that just hit you in the face. But just before we get there, I want to talk a lot about the astraving strategy, which I always ask my guests, because I've noticed that each guest saves differently. They all have their own individual mechanisms. So let's talk about the build up to owning this home, right? What was your mechanism, your saving strategy? You just spoke about a saving strategy. And of course, when you're making such a big investment, certain lifestyle changes need to take place. What is it that has changed or did to make this goal a reality? So for me, I've been with my banker for a while. Even way before I even thought of wanting to own a house. It was just one of those things where, let me be educated financially by someone who is a professional. And very only in my career, I established a relationship with my banker who has been my helping hand throughout everything, the way she advised on building a good credit score, saving some plans, what's available for me at the bank, like your tax-free accounts. Also, my financial advisor with different investment portfolios that I can create in order to save up some little money. I knew that for me, it was saving up for something big left for later in life, but it was not specifically to say I'm saving up for a home. I was just saving and also creating revenues and stuff like that to support my business also. For me, it was just a natural saving lifestyle. But also, when you grow in your career, your lifestyle also changes. There's little more money here and there, there's little salary increase here and there, and your lifestyle changes. You go to more fancy restaurants and stuff like that. And now you are faced with these huge patches where you realize, okay, I can't buy an expensive bottle of wine anymore, I need to go a bit lower. But also, it's about adjusting. You have been saving up to this point. This is not the end. This is just an adjusting of your lifestyle so that you can go back to saving up for something else, saving up for rainy days. That's one of the things that I had to learn once I had moved in. You got something out of saving, but the lifestyle of being a saver continues. You talk about how you were, and it's great because you had mentors, you had a banker, financial advisor, you had people at your disposal who helped you make this goal real. You also spoke about how they were educating you on credit record. I'm sure in that moment you probably looked back and you were like, I could have started years ago. So what is it exactly that they taught you that you wish you knew sooner? It's not that I wish I knew sooner, but I wish I had planned to purchase the house sooner. But also, as a first-time buyer, especially in my IT career, the salary I started and the salary now are way different in that I had not ever pictured myself owning a house of this amount. It's because of everything that's happening in my life, and it's just that you never see yourself that you're going to get there. I wish I had that mentality that I'm going to get here, one day this is going to be our target, even though it seems impossible now, so that I could have started shaping up my finances towards coming here sooner. And I love that you say it's not so much about what you wish you had done physically or something tangible, it's more of a mindset. You wish that your mindset was in line with a goal as great and as big as this. That's so amazing, because now I'm going to shift my mindset. We talk about financial literacy all the time, and I was reading a case study a few nights ago where they called, where they said South Africa is in a pandemic, which he titled Financial Illiteracy, because savings, black tax, everything that comes into play once you do earn a salary, right? And being financially illiterate is extremely important, and it's great that a lot of younger people, millennials, are looking at even starting to build a credit record already. Whether you're having property in mind, whether you're having a business or savings in mind, credit records are being established amongst the younger group of people. And I want to take it back to a personal experience of yours. Maybe if you can let us know what was the one biggest lesson coming up to purchasing this home that you've learned about financial literacy. The biggest lesson, I think it's been, you are building up something, you know, you are not spending. And I think, you know, when you are creating credit records, you know, you're getting a credit card here and there, you know, you're taking a room for this and that, and in that it's easier to being that, okay, I have all of these funds available to me now, and splash it and ruin your record. And for me, I had to be very disciplined in how I was using all this credit that was being available to me. You have to be disciplined in coming up to that space. Because you have everything, and you know, they always say, I'm not sure that not all debt is bad debt. And that's obviously helped you get to where you are today. And so we've been discussing home ownership. And I want to talk a little bit about the ups and the downs of purchasing your first home, right? But let's start with the downs, because you briefly, just before we started shooting, spoke about how all these fees, all these lawyers, everything that came into play, and I feel like the show like this is so amazing because we can warn people, you know, not to make the same mistakes we did. So tell us a little bit about mistakes, but of course, mistakes are inevitable, right? And you are where you are because of the lessons you've learned and the mistakes that you made. Tell us a little bit about that. For me, I think it's one of, I feel like, it's not a mistake, but I feel like I should have taken a breath once I saw something that I wanted, it was done. You know, I was like, I've seen the house that I want to move into. Was this like a one-hit wonder? You saw it and then you were like... Yeah, I came here, I came and I was like, this is it. But before I started everything, you know, I came for a second revisit just to contain my initial feeling, you know. And I wish I could have taken a breather to say, okay, that's what you want. Let's look at the financial structure. Are we ready to be in here? Are we also mentally ready for the lifestyle adjustment? For me, that's one of the things that I didn't consider. I was excited that everything was so emotional like finally I'm buying a home. Not necessarily a mistake, but it's something where I feel like I should have done, you know, I've seen what I've loved. This is what I want. But I take a step back to say, where am I? Mentally, emotionally and financially. I wish I had done that. And that's so powerful because a lot of our guests talk about when they step into their first home how they just knew. They were something like they just knew. And you had a similar moment, right? What was going through your mind like emotionally? How do you, because I mean, we look at property every day. We go visit different properties and I've never been emotionally attached to anything, to a property. So how, what was it for Bokang where you just knew that emotion? What was it? So when I first came here, you know, coming from a very nice but compact apartment, you know, and when I came into this space, you know, it has this oldish but modern feeling, but it's also so open. And also, you know, the views from the balconies, you know, I got to have a chat with the real estate agent upstairs by the balcony where, you know, everything was so peaceful, it was quiet and me being the introvert that I am and looking at the space, the peace, the serenity, the property comes with, you know. It was, it's not, it's a no brainer. Because I had seen other properties before. I have been, I had been in other spaces where I was looking, but like, yeah, it was never, it never reached out. Right, and this one just spoke to you. And then we spoke about the lawyers and the levies and all these because we're still busy, like you said, it wasn't a mistake. But of course they were downs in this moment. And you spoke about furnishing your apartment. And I like in your bio how you said that, of course you said your apartment before this was compact, it was nice, it was, you know. And now this is a much bigger apartment. And why is it that the furnishing part of it like gave you such a shock as well as the lawyers' fees and the levies that had to be paid? So what I realized is that I had been preparing to see that I would have enough, do I have enough? Can I afford the property? Can I afford the lawyers and levies and all of that? I was preparing to buy, I was not preparing to move in. And that's what hit me in it. Because I was in a compact, very nice space, you know. I thought everything it's here, I just move in. Then you move in and you realize where you used to live. It's a quarter of what you have now. Then also it goes, that also goes back to furnishing where it impacts also the savings, you know. Because you're like, okay, I've saved enough for here and there. So I can buy one, two, three. But then it hits you that the rainy day, this is not the rainy day. You cannot go and sparge the rainy day to fill the space up, you know. Also you just bought something and you made a 20-30 year commitment in that why are you rushing to fill it up? You've made a commitment for more than 20 years. Take your time, you know. But like, yeah, moving in it and having to finish it, I had prepared for everything, for buying it. I had not prepared for moving it. Yeah, because you said it was like a reality check for being here in this space. And so I've asked you what it means to own a home, right? And I know you're a man of many words. But I want to ask you, because I've always asked my guest this question, what does the word home mean for you? It means belonging. You finally have a space where when it belongs to you, also you belong to it. You know, it's your haven, it's your castle, you know, your safe space. That's why we call it home and not the house. Right. Because it's about the emotional and mental benefits and rewards that come with it. Exactly. And that you kind of have like a relationship with this thing called home. You know, you're in this together. I want to say congratulations to you, firstly, because you've only been here for five, six months, and it is a big step and it's absolutely amazing. Your home coming in, it felt like a home. So congrats. Thank you. This is really where we end off. I want to talk a little bit about one of the poems that you wrote in your book, Hey. And I'd really love for you to share that with us if possible. Yeah. And like when I say hey, what was written after we went into lockdown, into hard lockdown, I think it's one of my fastest written books. Oh, really? And it has the greatest reaction because I was not just the only person feeling that way. And me putting it in the book. I didn't know that people were going to react that way. Right. But like once I got it out, it was like we feel the same way, especially being in a lockdown. You cannot visit home anymore. People cannot visit you anymore. You cannot go to work anymore. Exactly. You have to work from home. You are confined. Yeah. Thank you for the context because what this piece really stood out to me, even though it's not lockdown, it still really stood out to me. It's something that we don't necessarily need a pandemic to feel this way. Yeah. And that's what we realized post lockdown. So if you could please share that with us. Yeah. It's hey, am I still alive? I've lost count of how many days I've been on my own. Some days are just a blur and some days I don't remember it all. What's the day today? Does it even matter? I keep trying to fill up the silence with music and TV, but it's getting to me now. Today I didn't feel alive at all. Today I just existed and I don't even know what that means anymore. I just know that I'm still here. And we are still here. We are still here. We are still here and we are breathing. We are alive and well. And I like today I just existed for me. That moved me. And I want to talk about when Bokang feels like this, when Bokang feels like today I'm just, I'm here. I exist. I don't even know what that means anymore, but I just know that I'm still here. Yeah. How do you deal with that when you feel like that? That's why I say, I always say that that's why wine was invented. Have a glass of wine when you feel. Nice. Okay. Yeah. Because I think it's not only about, this is poetry, why I resonate so much with this because I write myself, but also your last part, you end on a happy note. Yes, it sounds like you're unhappy, but you're ending with something positive. I'm still here. And acknowledging the fact that you are still here, you know, and that's what we need to, as a people, realize that as much as we go through these trials and tribulations, you are here. And just about sitting and being in that moment and being present, that this is the reality now. We're isolated. We can't do anything. All we have is music and TV, but you're here. Yeah. And being a home owner, a first-time home owner, you know, here when I wrote it and here now are two different areas. That's why I need to acknowledge that I'm still here because there's movement, there's progress. Right. Here constantly changes. Here constantly moves you and also you constantly fit and you move with here. 100%. Yeah. That is amazing. Thank you so much, Bukgang. Pleasure. Thank you so much to our viewers at home. We've spoken to Bukgang Marachelo. And if you want to see more of his work, check out his Twitter, check out his Instagram as well. And yeah, guys, get the book. The book is amazing. Thank you. Take care.