 to vice-president gudloki bele Jonathan in 2009 during the crisis arising from the ailment of late president Umaru Yadwa. Ironically, his words calling for the handover of power to Mr Jonathan, given the incapacitation of president Yadwa, was deployed by the position in calling on him to hand over power to his deputy Lokia Yadwa in the closing days of his battle with his ailment. Joining us to discuss this is the communications consultant at Kifatu Kaya. How is the pleasure to have you guest on plus politics? Greater pleasure is mine. Gola oba, you first starting yourself into what should I call it? I won't want to describe you with some of the quite the people on CNN, but you are an ewen lagidi, meaning you are an eroko when it comes to knowledge. We must learn from the fact that I will need to leave the studio as an example and I don't want Maya to be too swollen so that the door will not allow. Most heads don't swell. They come in, but I actually meant that. It's a real pleasure and thank you very much for having me. Good evening Nigerians. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, we lost a very, very voluble, eminent, sagacious character in Governor Kredulu, but unfortunately the circumstances of his passage was not very, very edifying. For a man who for many years epitomized integrity, for a man who for many years epitomized a kindle, courage and character is doing more was a bit was a bit dirty and shady. But let me give you the opportunity to start the way you want to start. I don't necessarily want to push you into the concern because we have quite a quite a sizable time to discuss it. How would you want to how would you want to start on the demise of Alakuni Kredulu? Oh, had I am going metaphysical, John Donne was very clear when said the death of a man, any man diminishes me. And your description, I just add, Alakuni Kredulu was exactly the way you described among courageous voluble, is place in the annals of a history. Despite the duplication and the shenanigans that surrounded his death, it's not something that can be wiped off easily. I like to say that Alakuni Kredulu was a man of many parts back then in school. He was the Metushella Sangisto, was a require back in his church days in Jericho where he well would be told that Jericho Ibadon, I guess. Jericho Ibadon, you know and he was very prominent. He was also amongst others somebody who stood from the college slang that he used earlier on. Were you at any time in school together or are you alumni, are you an alumnus of the same armamenta in any circumstance that you attended? Nope, but as a member of the Kegites we were spread all over, you know, jambulay and all that. He could break into singing and he could go into death camps during his lifetime. I know that he was at the University of Ife, I was at Hamadu Beleu University and usually we hold conferences with different universities and colleges of technology. In the glorious days of university education, when school was cool. I dare say that ironically some of the things he stood for in terms of constitutional order were put to the back boner when the shoe got into the other foot because right there in 2020 around December, I don't know about this thing about December that Akiti died this year in 2023, year ago I was also confronted with that and then we had a lot of dancing to the right, dancing to the left by what you called the inner cabinet. In Akiti's decades we had to prove perhaps allegedly were loyal to him which included his beloved wife, Madam Betty, his son, some other commissioners. At the end of the day he was treated, he was behemoth like you said in your intro and said power must change hands. When power must change hands it must not be any other thing other than to go through the constitutional provisions as well spelled out in Chapter 6, Section 189 and Part 2 of the 1999 constitution as amended. I mean where there is ill health and incapacitation there are laid down rules of how this shoe be followed, it wasn't followed and that was not a loon and you remember Dhamma Pasutai, I mean eventually whether you are an effigy whether you are there or not people who run the government for you especially those who are so proximate to the post of the state who could use just about your image, your name or their connection or proximity to you to go gaga and not only go gaga and do it very shamelessly at the end of the day you know you remember Hiragwa's wife and the kitchen cover the Dham Bazaus of this world and they all came strong to say it was not going to happen. As the attorney general was actually telling us that his understanding of the constitution was that the president could be anywhere in the world and be governing us. And then you know we had a very highly respected former president of Asunjo at that time gave us a bit of theatrics and was calling Hiragwa, are you well or you are not well? That was actually that was actually when it was first thing when it was first thing a man that he knew was sick or not. Allegedly new was sick. You know why I am confident he knew he was sick. I was flown in from England I was still domiciled in London England then I was flown in to interview candidate Yara Dua and then you saw a couple of things and when I sat in front of the gentleman I was so impressed that I had to tell him that there was a whispering campaign that it was not going to last for four years. Can you imagine that? Because he was looking very look God bless his soul very courageous very honest man and when I said that he said you know he said opinions were free and he pulled his Babariga and pulled it and he he showed me a lump of a this thing and he said he said he was sick he said there was no and he asked me how old I was and I told him and he said and he asked me if I had ever been sick and I said yes I had been sick and he said look I was sick but I'm getting better now and that there is no man that is you know that is immune to being sick but it was obvious to anybody close enough to the man. However momentary you could see that that was the person that somebody was calling on a sick bed in in Germany. I was telling us umaru you are dead or you are not dead and the same of us much later was the one who push became a show who now was granted you know the opportunity to see him in Saudi Arabia and then also made a pronouncement you know to him sometimes is like that this this this this man was very similar to what we had with arakuni aketi himself and then of course he was shielded if you remember this the old thing started in 2019 there about he was ill okay he took ill and I remember at that time he did something that was not very common unlike the aradwa and the and the keba and the turaya and the kabai and he transmitted then to loki aidati wa but everything now started walking in funny tools by 2023 we now so that he had to formally go to germany again spent three months at that time power was not you know transit and people started wondering is the same aketi is the same arakuni that will do this or was he within his ambit what you saw in aradwa by showing you that lump and he had ideas he was a lecturer at abadubela university he was in the chemistry department he had a way of you know not this time on with him had a way each time he wanted to I studied economics but I had people who studied chemistry and he was forthright to the guilt and I would tell you exactly what's what the problem problem is the only family that I see that come out and say it exactly as it sits by themselves with the arasongkuti family and when fella was going to pass on so liqori arasongkuti self complications and you know arising yes and all that so but this time around because we lack the structure lack the process to maintain constitutional order we were not going to follow it don't forget again comparing and contrasting so it wasn't in 2012 when uh they were not going to allow yaratua to go and and rest of the opposition party took him to court and um I know bham dili aturu also blessed memory died when I think july 9 2014 came out they won the case and the supreme excuse me the high court at that time made the pronouncement let's the constitutional provision of section 189 be followed if after 14 days you are not able to come out and say mr president was okay or not okay uh and then he sees this to be to be president uh later to now they say no constitutional order is now in place but what then happened the cabinet members who yaratua appointed the cabinet members who akere dulu appointed say no they will not be able to they will not be able to do they will not be able to do that unfortunately there are clearly then a gradually now then said when you make a mistake what do you do put your leg to the break raise your hands and say yes let us do the right thing ladies and gentlemen we're talking to members of his cabinet I know that was also a voice in akete's position it was the president of the mba then at at that time and he said look what are we what are we talking about it is only we can't continue to want to play god I think um akete akere dulu's place in history is not only a shock I mean you saw him in in in his colors the amotecum colors and what have you capable of speaking through to power but I think people surrounded him allegedly or not members of his family members of the inner coco started playing palungu and despite the fact that akete himself during his lifetime when he chose loki and said if you are a lucky man and wherever I stop you you continue from wherever I stop and in any case I get it you are this now you start your tone and people started dancing right left and center and as we speak today voila the jury maybe not yet out but it's out to say that the intervention of mr president whether they are river states elsewhere is not constitutional is still something that we need to see because at the end of the day peace reigned even if you are going to say it's peace of the graveyard I pray not at the end of the day are you are you going to reverse now are you starting reverse we don't because on those the peace is settled now well because the order has taken over okay by the circumstance of the passage of akete god bless you so I really want to try my best possible to take this discourse away from his person but speak to the constitutional the constitutional the unfortunately constitutional scenario that was triggered by his by sickness and the fact that some characters could have the temerity to literally literally and metaphorically abuse the collective psyche of the people of gondost state and it is very likely that they will walk away with that voila are here you very loudly and it's true we don't speak ill of the debt here we shouldn't more especially within the whole of 2023 in and out was mort virtually when it came back in september of 2023 that is jerry kohom was not seen was not hard the signatures were you know who are flying around allegedly and even to the extent that the the the peace and I agree with you that debt is the is the end of it all I want to pray that it should be the end of it all I am not particularly happy at the few things I saw okay after the death of akete I think it's like overreaching by some people I cannot for the life of being understand why it's and the commissioners of akete will come out and say well they will always continue to be want to be loyal to him even in debt I think that makes a bit of a nonsense I am not too sure that some of the some of the some of the optics that I see some of the some of the optics that I see with you know you know apology  dagegen if AUR We all should be. It behooves like history should not repeat itself in the adekunle adjacent yomaboriyo wo that understood virtually, you know, about Bolton. I think people should now calm down. What is not making that scenario different is what you call greed. What you call lack of a sense of shame. You may be surprised that at the end of the day, I pray like I will always said in 1983 that I'm wrong. I hope we will put our noses on the grind and make sure that now that death has given the right legacy that is going to be indelible. All parties should now just calm down. There should not be any viciousness. It should be forward ever to the sunshine state of Odo. It should be very unfortunate if there is any thing of vindictiveness in the conduct over you. It is a very fortunate man. His name just practically is leaving the fullness of the prophetic majesty of his name. Of that name. Lucky. He is lucky. Ori Mison is very fortunate. It seems to carry a head that takes him in the direction of good fortune. Ori Mison, that's the best translation I can give it in my Kwasa Yoruba. Ori Mison, my head is standing for me. And no matter what you do, my head is standing for me. And the family name that he has ultimately hand the world. I haven't said that I wouldn't suppose if he is a smart player that he should be vindictive or be seen to be a loggerhead with a father, the wife, the children or the followers of... Because he himself was, was a very solid... He said it when he picked him. He said it was consistently standing by him through the first time that he lost the gubernatorial election to the time he won. And that it was only right for him, apart from the goodness of his name to... You see, the two of us cannot discuss this issue like youngsters in journalism would do. The salacious part of it, the personality called side of it, I am not particularly interested. I'm sitting there, I'm thinking... And that's one of the reasons why I really want to engage somebody like you to speak to it. I'm thinking and I'm having a panoramic look at the constitutional order that has made it so, so fluid. That any time be it Maman Belwali in Yobbe, be it Dambaba Sunta'i in Taraba, now the immediate past incident of Arakuni Akredo Lu and inevitably, it is just inevitable, that at some point again President Umariya was very deplorable, exasperating, that the whole of the country was taken to and it's inevitable. It's not that one is being sadistic that at some point a gubernatorial character will be sick. He or she may not be able to function like we obviously saw in the case of Arakuni Akredo Lu, Dambaba Sunta'i, Maman of Yobbe Yadwa and yet some characters so close to him would want to make us believe that even when it is obvious to the old nation, they have the prerogative to be functioning in his name. What does that say? The problem is not as rubbed as the constitution that we are talking about which I have always said that needs to be really overhauled anyway. As rubbed as it is, the constitutional order is there. It has precedent, I just told you about the High Court judge sometime in 2012 that ladies has a precedent. Yes, people can get ill and naturally wish them well, but people can get critically ill and the wheels of governance must continue. But what is not there is the character. Of the people first to interpret that constitution exactly the way it is and follow it. During Yadwa's time, they all knew that within 14 days call a medical doctor and then that 3189, the part 4 of that section clearly stated why the National Assembly call the position to Mr. President, position to Mr. Governor set up 5 of them additional for medical doctors to examine, do it very quickly within 40 days and then to talk to vote. But they will never want to do it because position precedent is such that the beneficiaries of his grace those that he most have appointed as members of the cabinet are the ones that are constitutionally lagging to trigger the call for the medical examination. Not today, that you have battle of non-gnives, that you have people doing things In fact, the people that you appoint, the people that are supposed to be your right hand or left hand men or women will be the ones that will do you in. In case of outside Nigeria, in case of Sankara and Kampare in case of Anwar Sadat and his bodyguards in case of Murita Lam, Muhammad who did all those kind of people in? There are people who knew and could have been in other than the people who know who have first hand information that the way I am looking at things. Yes, so you decide you play lady Macbeth or you decide that you are going to play God or you do something and say that look before he gives up let's extract the highest and greatest it doesn't matter who is God. Constitutional order is clear. What is not there is the greed and the sense of shame. I will do it and nothing is going to happen. The people that Arakwone appointed, they were supposed to be his hands men were not going to be interested in his legacy and what did they start to do? That one must go and order and it nearly manifested it got as bad as getting to the chief judge of the state and they were going to look for one way or the other to try and pull her down point is there are areas of her world as you always say in your program and your teaching they don't have a written constitution but they have written ethos they have some kind of ethos and ethics and morality that bind them, that makes them say like we used to have in the old or your empire if you do something that is Greek you are kind of gone so that is lack of sense of shame is out the same presidents that happened during Arakwone the same presidents happened during Arakwone and why corruption why the fact that yes I will not be there but I will be the king maker it is a known fact if you are the wife of the president or the wife of the governor wife of the local government chairman you begin to wield some kind of funny influence if you are the son or the daughter of the president whether it is this president or the former president some people allegedly go to pay to those people so that they can have the heirs of the president it means therefore we are not practicing democracy we can't say we are practicing democracy we can't be practicing democracy and then at the end of the day things will be going the way they have gone I think fundamentally there cannot be a robust democracy where the rule of law is anemic if the rule of law is lean because many of us don't even understand that the full the full a mouthing of the terminology democracy is democracy and the rule of law of course and wherever people know that you can run rough short of the law and get away with it democracy will never will never be robustly planted who am I saying that let's leave the political side of it the members of the House of Assembly at some point I thought the speaker of the House of Assembly in on those days got a bit narcissistic like any politician and I won't blame him for that like any politician he felt he had an opening that if you could muster the powers inherent in the House through his colleagues and get the deputy governor defenestrated he could be the acting governor and that will position him well for as an aspirant and an aspiring candidate of the party in the general elections that will be holding very correct now I won't blame him for that that's politics the disturbing part of it was when it became obvious that even some members of the cabinet were openly saying that the signature of the principal were being forced and some people were coming out with two were coming out with explanations that he had two signatures I was even confounded I don't know signatures may change over time but at any point in time we must have one signature and I was thinking where were the where were the major place operatives where were the so-called AFCC operatives what was the ICPC leadership doing and in that circumstance hundreds of millions of NERA were leaving the treasury to very suspicious in very suspicious circumstances I just felt we can never have a robust democracy I can feel your angst I can feel your pains but beyond angst and pains you said it's politics what is politics? politics is who gets what we are and when you take and beat for your chance even if you have to ride a rough shot even if you have to go to Okinawa to try even if you have to kill for that don't take me back those in my opinion will not be positive politics and I hear you loud and clear the concept of Ali Baba and the 40 tips is that true Ali Baba is the head of the tips but you see those other 40 tips you may eventually get one that will even be an emperor and above because he will be looking at what the ogre is doing and then he too will finding a way to cut corners and then what then happen I I think over reaching ambition over vaulting ambition is such that can make you said we should not go there I just wanted to draw influence from magbets lady magbets, pushing magbets and then so many started seeing a lot of sorcerers you wait and beat your time you cannot and you should not and I repeat you should not try and begin to dance at the negative okay is it negative the unfortunate happen to your fellow man here was a man that made sure he supported you to be the speaker and all that I know the speaker was not acting alone it was a groundswell opinion because everybody knew that luckier he that he was was going to be another lucky good luck Jonathan was going to be a good luck Jonathan without raising a finger was just going to go in straight there oh no it's not going to happen so people started walking behind the scene you talk about two signatures in 2023 how will you explain situations where something that is so glaring and we must also know that you know there are boundaries the ICPC, the EFCC will not just come and pounce they may see certain things and they may be walking on a lead but if the national assembly is in Kahoot with maybe some party elements who are saying go for it it's not going to matter but I want to say to you that if Aketi did not die if Aketi did not die on the 27th year about of this month it will still be a kind of phiric victory and the whole world will now come on President Ballatino you have no constitutional right or duty to now be saying you want to do whatever it is and then the whole place will go into flames but where you have the morality and the ethics in you whatever is going to be yours is going to be yours without you necessarily trying to obtain the apocat if Aketi did not die because I think nature wanted to preserve his legacy that's the way I look at it I guess will be shocked if Gerardua did not die I am very very sure there's my professor Akiri and the eventual senate talking about Doctrine of Necessity who have had constitutional crisis in this country and for that matter if Sunthai that the whole world saw was not capable for ruling they would try and make sure that they put it there so it is us those who surround those who don't have that kind of sense of shame I also think that as we move in the trajectory to try and help develop our democracy we should give rewards we should give punishments look it's just not enough for us to say okay now everything is over there were dramatis personae I don't know who they are even though I can get well I am guessing shortly after letters of resignation if the point is they know that we know cause a number of people know the arrow heads that were behind trying to set a place like on those tapes on fire we should fish them out I am not going to be asking for being vicious for them to be fished out and touched on punishment likewise there will be a couple of people it will be the cook or the gardener who did one thing or the other to know then say hey wait a minute I see something that I want to word they will not try to shot him but in any rule of law respecting society agencies of state especially agencies leading with the consular responsibilities of enforcing the law I am making sure that the law is not is not flippantly abused ought to go into action look you cannot go to on those tapes now to go and tell anybody to bring out the books that you want to be the consular signatures we did this morning come out where was this sign you can do it I can do it but there are agencies of state you have the major police force recognized by the constitution you have Bola maybe sounding a bit no no you are not sounding you are not naive you are sounding like somebody who has his head properly screwed up on the neck yes how come how that yes you see the intelligence community about 5 or 6 agencies in the intelligence community the devil is in the details so let's take okay let's take Arakon they said Arakon is ill so you want the police to go into the house and go and look for him and then somebody now says no you can't do that you can't disturb his peace you can't do this what is dead now no before he died so many things will spread to the reality I see people say look what exactly is going on here I do not think okay I heard certain things here I heard certain things there you have to go to some kind of court to prove that your fears are real and that you have a local standing I said that is Mr.president that is the governor's signature during Yeraduwa's time when according to what we read it will be to come in all lies were put off and then it was put there in the room believing that look let's continue to just lie up on lie up on lie until oba sanjo it was that they eventually said he went to Saudi Arabia and said I have seen that gave a bit of a feeling the points I am making may we all not be confronted we think that we not only destroy our legacy destroy our character whether there are people who are close to us or people who are not too close to us or people who always even go ahead the sorcerers and the babalavos and the debias will come out and tell you and then the susayas the people who would make predictions and say look even though you are you are not feeling fine I see a situation where you continue to rule you saw what happened during Arakoon you saw somehow a dirty thing came out we don't want to talk about all that but when it came out he was accused that she was a friend to Mr. Governor and she was smuggling some things in there and before you could say Jack and Robinson is there for the reason why whether ICPs was able to do what needs to be done or not, whether EFCC, whether the police and everybody would not be saying it's your duty, it's your duty Mr. President has that look indirect let me ask let me ask and he can try and influence he can try and influence gentlemen, gentlemen ladies please let's make sure we have a common sense to breathe I think it's imperative at this juncture to split to the fact that it is indeed a travesty for us to expect to grow this democracy to robustness if ordinarily you took the lord of the president to let institutions and agencies of state do their work do what they need to do that is my fear now that is your fear but that is the reality it therefore means and I come back to the ground rules here my ground rule is democracy you know whether Cosmo is such that we can practice democracy is somehow alien to us we are much more attuned with the theory of strongman then the question is we had military rule we did not develop that much unlike in other parts of the world if I want to be living in China today I know if I want to be living in China today and I don't have all the liberty to speak in Nigeria at least I would be psychologically emotionally and financially compensated with the fact that my nation is globally respected we are eating the markers the big markers developmentally wise physical infrastructure and otherwise and the economy for the longest period in human history took out 800 million people out of poverty and put them in the middle class 800 the biggest number of people to have been taken out of poverty in the history of humanity because we had a totalitarianism that also which will compensate for the development and the positive to compensate that also has a human heart in Africa we had we had all absolute powers our neighbor here Paul Bea he has to now continue to genuflect you must stay there now there you go die and all that so again I may be sounding no the truth of the matter is that we have to redefine our democracy in a way that it will surely work for us we go every four years to do elections we go every four years we fight at the end of it all the supreme court will now decide who is going to replace we are here and there and then we continue to do that I think at the end of the day back to the subject death ultimate death has rewarded Arakon that chapter is not closed yet too no I know it can happen again somewhere it happens here as well not necessarily again somewhere even in the case of Arakon that chapter is not closed yet it is dead but as we speak the dramatis personae apart from the dramatis personae there will be opportunities for people to review the circumstances of his death and the complicity or not of his role in the obvious madness that ravaged the state for weeks if not months before his final demise as much as I think I will I understand what you are saying I was not there and all that kind of stuff but I'm able to say something Akete is not likely I'm parcel of all those serenigans that happened after him that much I have a feeling is difficult because you are not going to ask me I mean if I caught now you say what is my evidence and stuff like that and I could the truth of the matter is that we had a man of character we had a man who when he was ill and hearty made it point blank who his deputy should be he made it point blank and openly prayed all the other thing that happened that Aida Tewa was being overreaching and all that kind of stuff was trumped up is obvious that he was trumped up at the point I saw a picture of Arakunyakredulu with the governors of Oyo Ogun and he seemed to be a man that was about himself he may not be fully healthy but at least he was obnobbing with them my brother the jury is out I give you the opportunity to wrap it up Adamitin that you mentioned was also the governor of Pikete State and if you because I saw the picture he was just just tearing prostate cancer that we eventually had was the cause of death in a matter of days it can go terribly bad Yanaduwa was prodded I understood Yanaduwa was prodded in such a way that he could even say yes Sanu and all that kind of stuff Suntai was being made on this this age of AI after that in a matter of days high level prostate cancer would just take you out they would predict that they will give you 10 days within 10 or 15 days will be same signatures coming out may the law god help us my final word on this is that Nigeria is going to thrive we are going to get some of these things behind us we used to have a country we used to have people and leaders and those who are being led who understood the tenets of the rule of law and ethics I am very sure it is going to come back I hope we are not over romanticizing our past to be honest with you I see some signals that are very disturbing but we have to wrap it up