 Hi, I'm Gene Bergman, Ward 2 City Councilor Progressive and we are doing our monthly TV show Burlington Progressives and I'm here today with Joe McGee who is a fellow City Councilor from Ward 3. Apparently our districts will be different but we haven't been, we haven't gerrymandered ourselves out of our districts. Governor signed that legislation I think today so there will be some real changes and we're going to talk about the proposed change to the motel program because we have as the news has been very clear this major crisis. So Joe you have been our lead councillor on this and how about you just sort of frame the issue? Sure, yeah absolutely. So for a number of years now the state has housed nearly 3,000 Vermonters using expanded general assistance program which is the program where folks are able to access vouchers to use at hotels and motels. Vermonters who are experiencing homelessness are able to access those vouchers to be sheltered and the state budget that was passed at the end of the legislative session just a couple of weeks ago made the decision to end that program and so as a result starting next week folks will begin to be exited from hotels and motels losing the shelter that has offered some measure of stability for a number of months, some folks even years and you know I think Gene what this shows is that so many people in our community here in Burlington and across the state have struggled to find housing as so many people are moving to the state, move to the state during the pandemic, driving up housing costs and really creating a crisis that was bad before the pandemic and has only gotten worse during and so that's where we're at right now. A number of legislators are prepared to vote to uphold what is expected to be a veto from the governor on the budget over this this decision and we have a representative Logan joining us now. As you speak we are joined by the old north end one of the two state representatives Kate Logan. Hi Kate nice of you to join us here Joe was giving us excuse me some context about the impending crisis or the worsening crisis that you know we're going to be facing in housing with the end of the motel program and that's what we want to focus on right now. Thanks Joe. If I could just really quickly just highlight you know as a result of this decision with so many folks being exited what we're looking at in Burlington this summer is in all likelihood an increase in in camping we're going to see more folks who have no other option but to sleep outside and so the budget that was passed allocated twelve and a half million dollars that could be used to help people buy tents and you know I want to be clear because there have been several news stories that have suggested that myself and others are pushing policies that would just allow people to camp in our parks and you know that really isn't the case what we're looking at here is acknowledging the reality that people are going to be sleeping outside and we have a moral responsibility to do what we can to provide services and support to folks in the best way possible that acknowledges that our service workers have been burned out are burned out and if a number of people are forced back out onto the streets we're going to be stretching our systems of support beyond their capacity. I mean what you speak of is the fact that I mean people live somewhere and that is in a town it's in a city so we get to deal with it as city counselors we get to deal with it as residents much has been made of the fact that this is a state problem as if somehow things aren't linked together but Kate as a state representative and this was your first term so we don't have a lot of time one day maybe we'll talk about it what that experience was like in this but from your perspective what is going on at the state level at the legislature the way that the the administrators administration dealt with it leading up to it why are we in this mess clearly Burlington didn't create it so and Burlington is not the only place that will experience the the sharpest impacts currently 20 to 25 percent of those living in hotels are in Rutland County Bennington County also highly overrepresented there was a relatively low participation of hotels in Chittenden County in the program so in essence we have offshored our unhoused population and our and our housing crisis to other parts of the state and so Burlington should certainly expect to have to take responsibility as we address at least one round of exits from the with the new eligibility criteria from the GA emergency housing program beginning next week 766 households will be exited I've spoken with but to answer your question what's happening at the state level what's happening with the state level is that the legislature the administration now that federal funding has largely ended for this program to continue it the way that we had been during the pandemic the administration as well as the majority of the legislature agrees that the program needs without federal funding we've extended the funding from March to July and that that was as far as we should go and the the tens and tens of millions of dollars that we were spending eight million a per month was one of the numbers that I heard was that we should be taking that money and investing that into building the long-term permanent supported housing affordable housing and emergency shelter throughout the state the perfect solution the perfect solution but what I think is really happening and I'm I'm seeing the administration from my position working in the homeless services sector advocating and supporting agencies who serve homeless and runaway youth the agency or the agencies in the administration are talking to me now they're not they weren't no during the legislative session very few practitioners were being called in and treated as experts on the problem what I think is happening is people who are quite detached from reality and the experience of every every day Vermonters so many of us are struggling with housing security this program is just a band-aid on that problem but so many of our legislators cannot relate to the experience of being housing and secure they simply cannot they own property many of them are landlords they don't they don't understand the experience of being unstably housed they certainly don't have never experienced homelessness they don't understand the way that our services networks work they don't understand what a continuum of care is they don't understand what a local housing coalition is they don't understand they don't know the social services sector they don't know how poorly staffed it is they don't know the chronic fund these are legislators that are faced with dealing with dealing with budgets but you've got an administration which has got a huge bureaucracy departments you know that are charged with housing people charged with dealing with mental health issues charged with the health and safety of folks who are having substance use problems the range youth yeah right they could are you saying that they're that they were asleep at the wheel and just failed to to to plan and failed to what they I mean they they work for the governor they weren't authorized to put a plan together because the administration stated what was going to happen so was just to be clear well in the initial budget adjustment act governor Scott was fine with the program fully and abruptly ending at the end of March so the legislature and the program people take care of yourselves so it'll self resolve it'll self resolve people will go where they the administration isn't saying that anymore by the way we've done a good job of making sure that people are aware of the practical difficulties that service providers as well as people living in the hotels are facing right now in trying to problem solve around this transition what we have been advocating for you know there's been a broad debate many folks were saying just keep the program going this is an essential lifeline this is an essential part of our lives I've lived here for two years at this point and then then you have at the other end of the spectrum and the program in March the legislature extended the program through July in the budget adjustment act with this next cutoff for this month which are the least vulnerable folks staying in in the hotels for example like I said I work with a statewide network of youth services providers we're one of those agencies is moving a couple 18 year old couple just graduated from high school out of a hotel and into a transitional living unit that is for youth under 21 who need something in between shelter and their own rental home so yeah so we we've sort of framed up what is going on this problem that this crisis that we are facing and we've got state and we've got local responses so we don't have a ton of time left but we do have enough time to to talk about what is going on on the the state I know that this is a regional issue for all the counties and so and folks have been involved in these countywide meetings and then on the local level so let's I don't know which is the best thing to start with I'll let you figure out by piping up which is the best way to to go okay what well I can go quickly and essentially the other thing that's going on at the state level is that the administration and the legislature have thus far decided that they think it's the responsibility of our local continuum of care and our municipalities to address the situation at the local level and they believe that they have put enough resources on the table with the budget to enable municipalities to take things up do you agree with that assessment you know based on the funding that I'm seeing the funding availability that I'm seeing going out right now I would say actually fairly supportive of what we want to do it's the process that's the problem and the timeline is too short so it essentially just passes the buck to municipalities and to county level housing coalitions to put a plan together which is why you know I'll kick it over to counselor McGee at this point and back him up by saying back them up by saying that there will be if the budget passes and we evict another 2000 Vermonters at the end of June we need places for people to camp well yeah and this is a time of a housing crisis for people who are working two or three jobs you were saying this before Joe when before Kate came in working people cannot afford housing and there are a lot of reasons for it not the least of which is we are a low wage state oh yeah public assets has made that clear so yeah we don't have available housing we don't have available shelter period anywhere in the state there are a handful of units available in several counties that's it so Joe yeah you know I think just so folks are really aware of the full spectrum of the crisis we're facing right now there are folks who have had a section eight voucher in hand for months who are having to give them back because there aren't units available for them to rent there are folks who and you can be working and qualify for section eight so I mean there is this perception that just a bunch of slacken poor folks who don't want to work and I've heard it as a city councillor you've heard as a city councillor you've heard as a state rep and somehow if only we just give them tough love then they're going to be able to bootstrap themselves up with obviously no no self no selfers off without the boots yeah pull on so and that's that's the that's the I think the crux of this issue here is that you know I hear people say a lot well maybe some people need to hit rock bottom to to uh to get better or something like that you can hear that a lot when people talk about substance use disorder and where we're at right now uh rock bottom in a lot of cases is is pretty dire it's it's death for a lot of people uh so we're talking about folks being exited from this program who rely on medication that needs to be refrigerated or devices that need electricity to operate and if you're living in a tent you can't refrigerate medication you can't plug in uh essential devices and so you know we're really looking at a crisis here and we haven't even brought up the fact that a new place is looking for a new operating manager for the Champlain Inn which is the low barrier shelter that's been operating on uh Shelburne Road for a number of years now um so we're we're looking at a shelter system that has been beyond capacity even with the GA program we're looking at lots of folks who might currently have an apartment but are facing precarious housing situations and could be facing eviction so what we're really looking at right now is a negative trend of you know looking at the number of people who are finding permanent housing versus folks that are actually losing permanent housing um and so I would just say so so what are we doing what do we need to do yeah that's a it's an important question um I think right now uh we need state support we need service organizations to come together to figure out how we can bolster um the shelter capacity in Chittenden County uh I think you know I want to make it clear that I don't think any of us think uh camping or even the uh motel hotel program is a solution to the housing crisis as Kate said these are band-aids at best um and so you know I think what where we go from here is you know looking at the permanent housing that is being built uh we're looking at affordable units at City Place the VFW Champlain Housing Trust is developing a lot of these we're looking at you know two or three years in a lot of cases before those units are actually realized and people are able to move into them and so uh I would really like to see the state figure out a way to help us support folks until we can get to that point of moving people into permanent housing you know and the city has begun doing that work of figuring out you know as we see an influx in uh camping uh on public lands um you know myself and others would like to see us explore the option of sanctioned campsites not in our parks but on other city-owned land where we could have services provided we could have bathroom facilities we could have other support that is necessary and easier to provide if folks are in um one or a few locations rather than uh scattered in dozens of campsites across the city and so you know that is uh the situation under the status quo that we have seen you know we saw tents in City Hall Park last year we saw tents in Callahan and Smalley Parks um and so we're having this conversation now to really figure out how we can avoid that because you know it's not enough to simply say well you can't camp here the next part of that is but here's where you can go and this is where you're going to be able to access services this is how we're going to be able to provide support so where are those conversations happening right now yeah so I think the the CDNR committee has been having those conversations with the ordinance that you and I worked on last year um we're moving in a different direction with that but you know the substantive portion of that conversation is continuing uh the council passed a resolution at our last meeting on May 15th um we're going to be having a full council work session to talk about camping and the city's response to camping at our meeting on June 5th so that is really going to be an important venue for us to talk about you know what is going to continue to be an issue for the foreseeable future and on the state level Kate or on the county level what's going on well the local response uh funded by the state and other sources uh is happening at the county level but I would say county level Chittenden the Chittenden county housing alliance which is our local continuum of care is talking regularly having an emergency meeting tomorrow morning having a public meeting next Thursday what's likely to happen at those meetings so I mean right now they're planning the exits for everyone in Chittenden county who is exiting and what they've found thus far is very few folks will be ending up intense um on this round which is good um it is good there are places for people to go um there are people who are going to be able to remain in the hotels because of um you know medical conditions um there are people who are being rehoused right now um but so so that's where all this money that the state is channeling is going into organizations that make up the Chittenden county housing alliance and that's where a lot of the local decision making is going on I will note that Burlington is the only municipality that has representatives on that county housing alliance hey great question I don't know um and then at the state level obviously we have the veto session coming up in June um but in addition to the hot funding that was put into the budget the commissioner um or the secretary of DCF um commissioner commissioner thank you I'm tired I was late today because I'm writing funding proposals um for youth services organizations because the commissioner of DCF put out a memo on Monday of this week saying hey by June 1 get us a letter of interest letting us know what you need so this is in addition to that housing opportunity program um money that got put into the budget we don't know where the funding is coming from although we have been um we uh the coalition of legislators who uh voted no on the budget have been very helpfully pointing out places in the budget where funds could come from um there the DC DCF has said hey we welcome additional proposals for emergency shelter and various other forms of response to the situation those are due next Thursday so um and like I said in in my role directing a statewide network of youth services providers the agency has the agency of human services the agency of administration and the agency of education have all been engaging um well that's that's good and it's it's not it's not any indication that things are going to slow down but um I've also been talking with money folks who have said that as folks exit the hotel program that means the amount of resources for the hotel program you know expands and so that means for the some of the most vulnerable folks who are still residing in hotels at the end of June it's possible that their stays could be extended so people are trying to work on a lot of small solutions but it doesn't fix the overall problem which was that the timeline given for this transition was unjust way too short and inhumane so we have about four minutes left um which gives us enough time for each of you to tell folks what is most important for them to know about this issue right now yeah that's uh a tricky uh tricky question but I think you know I want folks to know that we are working on solutions we are doing what we can to to make the best of this and it's it's a pretty dire situation but um I think you know the conversations are happening and we have to do the best we can with the resources that we have to support folks and so you know counselors and state representatives are in communication about how we can collaborate on this going forward and so I do want folks to have some assurance that these conversations are happening and we are doing our best to make a plan and Kate yeah thanks um I think what folks need to know right now is that this is not just a Burlington problem it's um it's a Chittenden County problem and it's a problem in every county in the state in my role I know what's going on at the local level in every county in the state and there is no housing available and there is no shelter available the waiting list for those who are already qualified for housing assistance programs is long folks are getting housed but it's taking some time so our community is going to be receiving a considerable amount of resources in the coming months and years to address this issue but we are going to have to have a plan locally and your state representatives in Burlington and your city council are going to be working with the Chittenden County housing alliance to put a plan together and communicate with the community as soon as we can and ensure that we have a safe and humane summer for all those who reside in Burlington. It's thank you thank you both it's a really hard task to make a reality of the value that housing and being housed is a human right and to do that in the face of crises with an insufficient social safety net and a low-wage workforce it requires us to be looking at building an economy that is based on solidarity based on these basic principles that say that all of the basic needs are human rights and we need to fund them and we need a tax system that's going to do that that's based on people's ability to pay right and right now we have a regressive it's progressive for comparatively so but it is not one that's like that so we've got a we've got a lot of work to do it's I think why the progressives are here and I'm very happy to to be part of this party and part of this movement with with both of you because I think that the value that we've all contributed is really significant so thank you for taking this time thank you all for watching Burlington Progressives TV and we will do our best to give you an important show in the the next month thanks have a great night