 And we are live from Orlando, Florida 21 studios global command. I'm Anthony Johnson founder and CEO 21 studios Toast hosting the 30s episode episode number nine of the red man group on 21 live Today, I'm joined by Roland Tomasi the rational male Ryan Stone and Mary red pill Pat Campbell radio host and podcast host at Oklahoma and Carl from black double logic calm gentlemen. Thanks for joining me Good to be here. Thanks for having us again. Hell, yeah So let's kind of go through the round table. What do you guys got going on? I've been kind of loop over the past week moving around Orlando Rollo Basically, I have been working on the on book for a little bit more I have a series of posts that I'm working on right now really there Kind of heavy stuff. So I'm kind of taking my time with them. They're they're cognitive processes and I'm trying to really investigate how these cognitive processes affect or are You know, how they relate to red pill awareness and how they relate to just intersexual dynamics and I Broken them down. It's pretty basic. They're pretty simple. What do you think about it? There's just instinct emotion and reason and I'm going through each one of these sort of systematically and really investigating how they affect you know men and women and You know from trying to like I'm trying to relate it to be a little bit more intersexual dynamics wise but really the cognitive processes and just my my my thoughts on that and then Just working on the book really and then do with some, you know, live appearances like this I've been doing a few of them around and then of course I'm going on with Pat Campbell on Last Friday anyways, but at least once a week we get together and we talk and I think it's becoming a pretty popular section on our segment on your show Pat Absolutely. Yeah, my my job is to bring the the red pill to the masses and terrestrial radio. I started You know reading a lot of Rolo stuff I think I bought the second book first and then I got the first book the third Brought him on the radio and I think he's got a great message I think you guys are sort of aimed your core demo as probably men 20 to 40 And I see some broader applications for Rolo. I sort of tempered the language Brought him to terrestrial radio bringing him on my local program on a regular basis Talking about issues like this week. We talked about there was a story out there about a guy who went on a date with a woman just one date and She didn't return his text messages. So he sent her an invoice for the date So we talked about the sexual dynamics there that would that create a lot of controversy on Twitter We got into the Starbucks deal. He's also been talking about People apologizing whether it be Laura Ingram or Tony Tony Robinson and why you should never apologize when you do It's never enough. They just want more more more Sometimes I sit in for some nationally syndicated guys like when I sit in for Todd schnitt I bring Rolo on times like that He's like on 65 stations that have never heard the red pill message. So that's that's sort of how I Invision bringing you guys on board because there's there's a whole world out there that hasn't heard this message and it's it's got It's it's it's important and I want to get a broader audience Cool. Hell yeah Brian Carl anything I knew with you guys lately. Yeah, we just rolled up on week three of our 60 days of dread This one here. We just finished off husbandry Hygiene all the basics covering the ground next week We're hitting up style and how to dress like you give a fuck as for me personally I just finished writing something actually attached to 21 convention. I remember when you when I gave that speech I told guys I wasn't there to tell them What their path was or their mission and then that was the first three questions I got was what should I use for my right of passage? Best answer I can come up with was sex and violence. So it's a big long slog of a read and Between those two things. It's just daily grind nothing super fancy. Just stick into the basics and doing them often Ryan actually wanted to ask you I noticed that reddit finally wrote out a whole new You know platform basically a whole redesign You're a moderator at both Mary red pill and the red pill I believe is that effective you guys in the back end cause some problems or anything Thank God. Oh, they happen ever since they put that new moderator Website on there. It's fucked up mobile. So we can't I have to go on to a desktop to do anything So if I get messages, it just slows down the time when we get rid of trolls But yeah, we can still turn it off in the meantime. So as long as the mobile apps catch up to it, then we'll be fine Carla any new blog post lately? I think I read one recently. It was pretty new Yeah, that was the one I put out. I called it the Trinity kind of taking a poke at some of our target audience for today because it was an observation that I made last time we did this show that Men exist in three states at the same time They're they're past their present and their future and a lot of their problems stem from the fact that They can reconcile the three and it was inspired by a gentleman that both Raul and I know who was doing some great things and making some fantastic progress and both in his personal life and What happened was he just couldn't Reconcile what he had done in the past what he did and had great results within the present with the future that he desired and That made me think about the fact that we all have to kind of reconcile and bring those three into alignment And accept them in order to become who we are supposed to be and who we want to make ourselves into and I'm also working on my second book I'm not sure when it will be ready, but I'm about halfway in now on the first draft So that's going to be interesting to see how that develops. I Have this I write kind of stream of consciousness So I just hammer out the entire thing running stream of consciousness and I go back through it again and type it up So I don't even know how that's gonna end However, it's gonna and I'm excited. Do you have a title mind yet? No, and I have a few on the drawing board, but I haven't found anything that it needs to Appeal to the core audience while at the same time pissing off enough people in the way the Goldman's book did so I can get free marketing Yeah Nice. Well, I promise I'm gonna finish your book before the next one comes out I'm 95% done at this point. So we're closing in on the final 5% it's gonna happen That's gonna get interesting So Rollo you had a bunch of topics we want to go through today But before we get into those I want to make it clear that you guys watching live and actually ask questions You could type them live on YouTube We'll see them in the chat me and the other speaker or the other guests today and in addition in addition to that You can actually text questions live and we'll actually read them out. I'll read them out to you You're on a YouTube Number to text questions to if many were in the world is one if that's at the United States So one two five six seven nine two T21 C or two five six seven nine two eight two one two You can text questions to that with a name first name anonymous name Whatever simple short question no more than a few sentences and we'll get it out live and get it answered Well, that said Rollo you had some topics you want to go through today Well, you know we've whenever we're kind of getting together and collaborating on what we're gonna do for topics I mean we this is really this show has sort of Snowballed into something that has become a whole lot bigger than than I think you and I even expected it would be You know we we technically have two shows in one I mean we've got we've got rich right now as the second host and we got you as you know every other week I think that's working out really well for us So, you know bouncing topics off of each other and having guests I think it's it's you know really working out for us pretty well and then of course, you know me you're dedicating a lot more a lot more of your effort and your I guess you're investing yourself a little bit more in this too out and I think that's really encouraging So when we're when we're talking, I think a lot of people don't really realize the the kind of work We do you know behind the scenes when it comes to the red man Like I said, just know that I don't think really any of us really thought was gonna be as big as it is I mean, it's it's great to have this accessibility. I think I don't do my own podcast I just you know as far as Anybody else concerned here? I think Pat's the only one who do you know does this for a living? So in that process When I'm when I'm doing What I'm talking with you guys or I'm talking with people on Twitter We come up with you know various Topics that that are either hot at that moment or they're kind of carrying over Through I think the entirety of the red pill in the Manusphere as you know as a whole one of those topics is how How we sort of Sort out I think ideology as far as that's the red pill is concerned There we've talked about this before in the past where it's been You know is is the red pill a praxeology is it an ideology I think that a lot of People get confused because they want to turn the red pill into something that agrees with their their worldview or their outlook on life and I think that it ends up becoming sort of a convenience for these guys To sort of say well, I'm doing things right and so therefore I must be red pill or red pill only means I'm seeing the truth or red red pill means that I'm cut away from this old or you know this Untrue false reality and I'm now living in my my new My new you know truthful reality and it's really whatever happens to align with what their ideological bent is and so There you go. Yeah, exactly. And so like once one of the things that you know what I'm talking with with with Pat on our on the weekly show It's interesting because one of the things that that Pat That's why I wanted to have him on this the show is because one thing Pat talks about in he comes from sort of an ideological background as Well, I mean cat he's Catholic I deal with religious guys all the time when it comes to red pill Some of them are very open to it. Some of them want to reject it completely And I'm not trying to just pick on one particular religion here But I'm just thinking thinking in ideological terms right now. So What I wanted to get into this just to start this thing off is to say, you know What do we want to you know, where do we want to go with the red pill when it comes to ideology? And where do we want to go when it comes to? You know Dealing with people who want to turn the red pill into what they want it to be because really we're kind of factionalized We're atomized right now. I See a lot of guys talk about, you know, make time make time make time. That's that's one section Okay, great fine. You know the probably the most vocal section. I think probably the the mainstream public sees them as being the The easy ones to pick on I think MRAs are come in a close second. I think and then Become something where they become ridiculous or those those factions become something that they want to pick on and so to separate themselves from that they You know, they have to try to put their their truth out there But then they're kind of fighting against this this ridiculousness that that is, you know, levied against them And then you've got guys who are like said the MRAs then you've got pickup artists Then you've got what I what I would just call simply the red pill and guys that are just, you know straight up Learning about red pill theory I Think they also the political bent rollo. I think there's actually a whole new subreddit that was made Yes, right, right. Well, I think that a lot of I think that a lot of the Impression right now is that the alt-right is sort of this extension of the red pill and I I always try to discourage that idea that that you know that would be next logical progression from you know learning about Intersexual dynamics is moving on to you know doing something like Richard Spencer and Charles I think there needs to be a separation from that because right now the red pill had turned into a brand That people want to pick up on you look at the MRAs MRAs go in and they run their own documentary called the red pill You look at migtails who are I would say essentially red pill guys I just think that they react and they they I mean the more extreme guys anyways react to it and And I think maybe overreact to it or react to it in such a way that they go to extremes And so I think that yeah, I think you're right as far as the politics are concerned I think that's something that in the going forward and into the future That's something that we're going to need to address or we're going to need to Put some sort of separation between And so the other thing I wanted to get into today was the trad con movement right now, and we're seeing a lot of this I've seen Roush have to deal with this. I'm seeing a lot of More conservative vet people truck that maybe they're not quite the total alt right, but they're saying that you know They want to to turn the red pill into their their conservative message. They want it to be a Return I think to To this to the glory days or the the golden era of we know when men were men and women were women and Men have to pick up the responsibility for this big huge mess that you know We call intersexual dynamic to society right now, so I'd like to get into that a little bit today And sort of discuss that and sort of make a separation between red pill as praxology and red pill as you know an amoral a Religious a political You know move I'm going to call it a movement really I think like I like to call it praxology because that's as close as I can come And in a in a definition of it and just just sort of make you know or maybe raise awareness to You know how that how the red pill is sort of being I would say bastardized to reinforce other people's you know Ideological man probably like diluted and hijacked for everybody. Yeah, well Ryan. Did you want to hop in and provide some context for this? Yeah for the red pill, right? It'll be a little bit of a backstory here So originally there was just married red pill and there was the red pill and then what we found is a lot of people since most people are Lazy they don't bother reading the sidebar, so everybody kind of gets up to speed So we're all talking the same language So we ended up making Subsites ask the red pill ask the married red pill and that was for the low quality stuff for people that want to engage But don't quite have the quality of caliber. It's like the Bush leads The red pill right came up about the same time that the Donald Trump election happened And I know I'm sure you guys have heard of the Donald that rated subreddit That's apparently an alt-right breeding ground or whatever they call it So it turned out there was a lot of interest in talking about politics But when you're on a site that refers to inter gender dynamics, it really has no place So we had two options. We could either just ban everybody talking about it or just give them a sandbox to go play with So it's not that example is more of quality control than people trying to make it what it is But tied to Rollo's point on that as well It's and that's kind of where I went into when I talked about sex and violence being the two non fungible measures of a man Basically anything else is either devalued in modern society or women can do it just as well So that's really all we have left and when he's talking about that. It's this need to Go back to traditional conservatism. It's this bubble wrapping of life. Like guys don't want to have to take the risk of Not having a certain path like you will be a man if you do a B and C you build these autistic lists 10 ways to be alpha It's just a lot of man. So you get married you're just a boy Exactly so if everybody likes it because then somebody's telling them what to do and they don't have to think so it's absolutely ridiculous I mean it made sense back in the day where if a man wasn't working 12 hours a day on the farm your family star at that point It was necessity, but it's not necessity now Bringing home the bacon like bacon cost three dollars at low-bloss How much of a man are you with your with your grocery store masculinity? Like and then I would say yeah for it's and it ties into Rollo's article He wrote on the safety net the big advantage a lot of guys found with the red pill was That when things happen and things will always happen then they kind of you can kind of see oh It happened because of this because of that there's nothing you can do It's just the way things are and it gives it gives a certain comfort And that's what people who are doing the trad card thing are trying to get because they're like well If your woman was bad to you it's it's gotta be that she was a low quality woman You know quality is this nebulous term. It means whatever you want it to Can't be wrong But it's a high-quality woman is and nobody ever can describe exactly what that is and then when they do if you describe Well, this woman was what you described as high quality and she just cheated on her husband. So what about that like? Well, I think it was in the rational kind of world that Rollo's in up or creating obviously That's just like a social convention used to this, you know rat men and Wrap wrap when bubble wrap. It's idealism. It's idealism is what it is And I you know people and I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of trad cons want to call me to the carpet for that They say well, don't you believe in a quality woman as opposed to a low quality woman? I said quality woman is whatever your ideal your idealism tells you it is because there's plenty of divorce guys today Who were you know marrying there? I use this on rich all the time. I shouldn't pick on When he got married, I'm sure he thought that his ex was a great quality woman and simply, you know I think that that's really It's kind of self-serving when you come to traditional conservatism because they're they want to adopt all of the most positive Aspects of the red pill and they want to say yeah, men should be men and they all anything that has to do with personal Responsibility, they're all over that but when you when you mention something that is unflattering about women Especially with you know quote-unquote red pill women Then it's something that they want to oh well those those red pill guys though They're they're just angry they're just bitter and they just basically resort to the same kind of shaming tactics that you know Common feminists will do I guess they guess how they must have little dicks, you know Some chode life coach was all these guys are bitter and they're angry by the way, here's everything they just said so join my coaching My mother doesn't love me and didn't breastfeed me on Twitter by this And she was at the she was at the convention listening to the talks including my own I want to I want to bring Pat in on this because Pat's got a kind of a different perspective from this because he's got a Weekly show that I mean when I came on when I started working with Pat I was like, okay, cool. Great. I'll be happy to go to you know, trust your radio I I realized you're like on a fox affiliate. So you're you're Your audience is I would say it's pretty conservative, right? They seem to be embracing of the message or whatever what it is I'm hanging on a second before we get Pat and Carl wanted to hop in real quick Carl Jeff something to put in there Yeah, I just wanted to comment Well, I was originally gonna comment on rollo But now I'm gonna have to comment on Ryan as well But to begin with I think the whole I've been writing a post that I haven't published yet mostly because I've been traveling a lot and I don't want my Twitter feed can turn into a shitstorm when I can't be there to mute people and One of the things I've been looking at is Praxology is a branch of knowledge that deals with the nature of human action and it's understood in economic theory as you study What people actually do and that what people do is based on Premise they have about cost and effect if I work more I make more money if I go to the marketplace I can find something to buy and I think what confuses people is the red pill is a body of knowledge speaking Academically, it's a sum of total literature that you have to familiarize yourself with and it's a political. It's a mortal They are simply it's simply dare as knowledge People can apply that knowledge in however way Like some guy may want to use it to vet a perfect wife Some guy may want to use it to sleep with a bunch of imperfect women that's up to them and the Knowledge makes no judgment of that morality speaking which brings me to Ryan where the whole dichotomy of well If she was a good woman, she wouldn't have cheated on you if she was a quality woman She wouldn't have given you shit constantly and you don't want her to go back to my earlier earlier days on the blog That's a no true scouts mentality No real quality woman would cheat on you and that's kind of what irks me about the this group is that It's just a fallacious argument. Well, the argument is there The arguments there I'm reversed right right Carl that you know If you're a real man, you wouldn't your woman would never cheat on you and it's like alphas get cheated on too. I programming does not care Well, the thing is if you look in the newspapers or read the tabloids that the check out a Walmart You'll see that every week. There are some guy who's in the top 0.1% of men whose wife is divorcing him or cheating on him because I mean Celebrity divorces unless it happened to guys who are Objectively at the top 0.1% of men. Yeah, Brad Pitt has got divorce rapes like what a year ago like there you go Yeah, Chris Rock was making divorce jokes two months before his wife filed for divorce and I Mean if Brad Pitt got divorced raped Chris Rock got divorced gang raped Very true. I think that's that also comes back to I think that an editor traditional conservative mindset is very very Fundamentally founded I think on personal responsibility and that's always I butt heads and Unfortunately sometimes even with some of the guys that I really like but I think that there's like, you know that no true Scotsman You know that that argument right there It's like if you had it just been a better man She wouldn't have done that you'd just been you know had you know if you handled your shit Then she wouldn't have cheated on you if you had it been a better guy You know it's it's always the guy's fault and it's from the individual level all the way up to the social level So I have guys will tell me like well the reason that you know you just you just went out with a low-quality woman It's this you know circular argument, but then I have the guys that tell me oh well The reason that we're in such a shit shit show as far as you know Society is concerned or the reason that feminists, you know get away with stuff It's because men don't stop them and I wanted to bring padding on that Simply because I like I think his his audience is I think hearing this with fresh ears for the first time. So what do you think about that? But a couple things here first of all You know conservative the term conservative has been hijacked. It's one of those Somebody on the program a couple weeks ago used the term compartment words. It's whatever you want it to mean now It doesn't mean anything anymore. So you guys in particular you need to Make sure that the term red pill is not hijacked by somebody on my side or this side or that side out there because they want to They want to you know hijack it and use it for their their own their own game I was talking with rollo on the program about Candidates to come through my studio. We've got two big elections coming up We've got a gubernatorial election and I've got six Republican male candidates and then on the in the first congressional district I've got five Male congressional candidates all Republicans everybody and their mother's conservative It doesn't mean anything everybody I ask it I get a different definition from you know one guys a common sense conservative Well, what's that? How does that differ? You know what one one guys this kind of conservative this kind of conservative except the the marriage thing though This is what I got into a really interesting conversation with rollo about is they come in the studio on their standard things They say I've been married 33 years. Okay, I go to this church. They wear the baby Jesus on their sleeve You know, I I do this I do that all these kind of things and we've got a candidate running for Congress Who's single okay? And he's a great guy by the way But the implication is because that he doesn't fit the mold he's either gay or there's something defective with him And I really resent that because if you don't if you don't I actually want to have a congressman That doesn't have to decide which obligation is gonna be more important Do I go back home spend the time with the kids or do I do I stay in dc representing my constituents? Because somebody's gonna lose out in nine times out of ten. It's it's the kids But they come through the studio and you know, it's the same mold and they don't They're playing to the crowd and when we see them go either down to oklahoma city You know, which is our swamp or to washington dc They become very different people a lot of times when we're we've got state races here in oklahoma Once they get down to oklahoma city they act like frat boys up here. They're a good church going family guys, you know And but once they're down there, it's like a frat like atmosphere We had guys going into strip clubs without all sorts of sex samples involving republicans here in oklahoma And it's a joke. They're just all they're doing is they're playing to you They're telling you what you want to hear and they don't really have The core values some of them do but those those guys are exceptional as as opposed to a foreign word Huh, what's that? They sound like sailors on the foreign port. That's like fleet wheat and san diego. Absolutely. That's what it is In fact, I got to start using that term on the radio the um, so so you know the the conservative and the the compartment words, too I'm a big He who controls the language controls the debate and you hear all of these words now You know people say love loves a compartment word because it can mean whatever you want it to me family values That's a compartment word. It's whatever you want it to me if there's no Set definition for these things anymore Ryan Carl, did you want to hop in on that? well, it's kind of interesting to me because I what An anecdote here. I went to buy some pants the other day And I found out that at the given pants store I was buying 30 well an inch is apparently no longer an inch And that's what I'm getting at with pad is the term family values It brings an image into your mind of what it is differences you've diluted the definition to a point where it doesn't matter and that's what we've been doing for the past 20 30 years with our rhetoric Because people keep using these words that they don't know what they mean In order to get you to agree with them like if I Tell pat like well, you want to be a good person, right? You should donate to this cause you should donate to the less fortunate That's in your best interests and it's in line with your self image Well, what's the cause I'm trying to get them to donate to that could be anything from planned parenthood to gun control and it's That's kind of the point you lead with You use a form of the loaded question I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but a great example is so have you stopped beating your wife If you answer yes to that question You implied that you used to beat her if you answer no you're saying no I still smack her around on occasion And neither gets you into a good situation. So It's the same thing with the language like with the Politically correct left you get the whole concept of if you're not being politically correct Well, why are you trying to hurt people who are less fortunate than you? And with the trad cons you get the Well, if you're not trying to have marriage or children You're the kind of guy who's bringing about the fall of civilization Right, that's exact. That's what I wanted to sorry. I just wanted to hit on that real quick Is that I think that that is becoming an increasingly more popular idea amongst the Quote-unquote red pill right or the alt right? That if you are I run to these people all the time my twitter feed They they're usually nationalists of some sort But they or they they'll pose as if they are women or maybe they are actually women and they're they're Their qualifications for you is how many kids do you have? You know, how are you how are you? Doing with your you know prerequisite of supplying new bodies or you know your your reproductive imperatives here And then it's like if you if you are red pill in to the sense where you are You're promoting personal personal growth or personal progression. Are you promoting responsibility? I think one of the reasons uh One of the reasons that Jordan Peterson is so popular right now is because he hits that he scratches that itch that personal responsibility itch What thing is is that from what I find when it comes to traditional conservatives? Is that they're all about the red pill up until the point where you start? Revealing some pretty unflattering things about women and you're you're doing this from as objective a Perspective as you can But yet they will say well, that's all because of men Women are the way they are because men let them or they have no moral responsibility. They have no Um, they have no moral agency. We've we've actually had this discussion on this debate A lot on dow rocks blog on the you know, the christian red pill side of things Do women actually have a moral agency? If you are just talking to this new breed of trad cons or the uh, you know Tricon women for sure or what quote-unquote red pill women and I know that that uh, ryan can speak about the red pill Women subreddit to this effect But um, it seems to me that they're they're happy to adopt all of the things that I write about in all of my books Up until the point where they are unflattering to to women and then I become a massagenist and then I become Uh somebody that they don't want their their their sons to read because They could take that information and they could become pickup artists or they could go and apply The the game aspects of it for their own selfish gains I'm telling them no. I said this is the way things are and this is how you know intersexual dynamics works and You know, how they choose to do that is up to you But I think even in churches today, and I'm just going to speak to you know, mainstream evangelical churches today I think one of the things that's going on right now is that there's an active hostility towards men In those churches, but only because those men Are not assuming or they what they believe is their responsibility to corral these women And then once they do corral those women there are laws and there are social conventions there to punish them Or even attempting to do that so Yeah, I want I want to jump in on the number of kids because I got a sort of unique perspective First of all, I'm the oldest of 13. Wow, and I've got five kids of my own I've been accused of being a breeder on the radio The first question I was asked is are you an An osu fan or oh you fan and I didn't understand why that was so important But I but I later found out and then when I tell people I got five kids They go so are you a catholic or a Mormon? I mean, there's that sort of like Prejudice built into it, you know, but I remember in a number of my brothers and sisters have Four or five six kids themselves But when you when you have the first two everything's okay, nobody questions that once you have the third you start getting looks By the fourth, you know, you get the comments, you know There's something they can do about that and by the fifth forget it. They're not even talking yet And I'm sort of sensitive to it, especially with With regard to immigrants in the country because I'll go to walmart here and I'll hear somebody make a snide remark About a Hispanic woman, you know, look at her. She's pregnant again because because I face that kind of stuff in my family, right growing up and The other side to that is people that don't have kids They encounter a prejudice a bias too For example, my my second oldest daughter. She's just 23, but she's been married three years They don't have any children yet. My my mother goes. What's the matter? You know, it's just like it's like you're a defective product if you don't have kids Some people I worked with a lady who Desperately wanted kids her and her husband desperately wanted kids. They tried everything in vitro fertilization Just couldn't have it and when people come up and ask you the question like that It's like really rude people think that they're Entitled to know intimate details and for her every time somebody asked about that It was like ripping open a scab and just pouring salt in the wound So, you know this idea that you have to fit a certain mold and if you go outside of that mold one way or the other You're somehow defective product I I also see a lot of you know, this rise in this in this trad con Mindset, I think amongst women right now. I also see this as Women looking for a niche sexual marketplace. They're looking it's just like gamer girls You know, they want to get into the gaming culture They want to get into comic books or they're you know, one of the one of the reasons Yeah, this is going to be a very unpopular thought here but one of the reasons I think that cosplay is such a A big thing right now is because women got into it because it was another way for them to get attention But they're not really into the characters. They're not really into any of that They love the creative side of it and they love showing off their asses But I think that they see that as sort of a Encapsulated sexual marketplace. I think the same thing is happening with With traditional conservative, you know, conservatism right now amongst women I see It's almost it's kind of sad really because I think that we will take the Opinions of women more seriously about intersexual dynamics and we will for men these days And that's always been true. I mean, I've been writing about that since you know, since day one One of the reasons I think that the the men's rights movement right now uses these Anti-feminists, which are really anti-feminist feminists To be their spokespeople is because they're they think that their message is going to come across or get conveyed more Efficiently or more believably if they have a woman telling their story I think the same is starting to come up into traditional conservative what we call trad tots right now And we're looking at this we're looking at this group of women who are seeing this as a niche sexual marketplace So that they can attract the kind of guys that they think that they would like to be with they think that well, there's this thing called the red pill and there's these guys who are You know making, you know self-improvement a priority for them and they hold the same beliefs as I and and it It doesn't matter that I'm a single mother with three kids from four different fathers, but it's like, you know They don't they don't care about that because now all that's in the past and they've had this this epiphany That they want to be these traditionally conservative women. And so they expect to Have men man up and really I think that that's what this is. It's another it's another version of man up they're expecting these men to man up and Become someone who is qualified for their new perspective on life Which is their traditional conservative that they suddenly, you know, re you know Refound after 29 years old, you know And so I think that we're seeing a lot of that sort of filter in right now because when I see like I think ruche was doing a A podcast not too long ago where they call it an internet bloodsport But he had all these women that were coming on trying to yeah, they're yeah They're trying to confront him about you know, his opinions about Tradtots or try you know They're basically these women who are who go and put out these videos and they seem like they're traditional conservatives and they they seem like they are The kind of women that if you are looking for a quality woman if you believe in the quality woman mean that that Part of you know, the red pill I guess wants to to promote if you believe in a quality woman They want to be that quality woman and what does that mean? That means that you have to you have to handle your shit Have you you know, you have to be conservative you have to you know jump through all of these new hoops that They want you to that they want you to jump through and oh by the way support me on patreon Well, I'm you know, well, I'm putting out these these videos in my new sexual marketplace So I can see why it's very very appealing to this to this new branch of you know This new I don't want you to call it a branch of the red pill because I don't not really red pill I mean, it's just they're using convenient aspects of that or the the self-improvement And that was another thing I wanted to get into with you guys is I know that there are different aspects of the red pill I know that there are guys who are going to be married. There's going to be guys like Conor Drew There's going to be guys like Craig James. There's going to be guys like, you know Who are going to have that more conservative more, you know build yourself kind of side of things Um, I I have agreements with that and I have disagreements with that I think that in some ways it's very very genuine. I think in other ways it's it's disingenuous because again it sort of feeds into that, you know, man up and marry those sluts dynamic and I think that you have to be really careful with Self-improvement because self-improvement ends up becoming a cult it ends up becoming very culty masturbation Yeah, it becomes exactly what they meant in 1999. Yeah, it is and it becomes this I'm dedicated to self-improvement Well, what are you going to do with that? What do you actually do? That's one of the reasons I like Jack Donovan so much because he's in a self-improvement for right, you know But he's into it because he has a utility for that He has something to to do with being a better guy, you know And he wants to you know go out there and actually use that self-improvement for something else whereas in other I'm not going to name names, but in other Aspects of the man's fear. I see a lot of guys just they're just dedicated to self-improvement, you know Okay. What do you do with it? Wendy when is When are you self-improved enough? When have you reached the plateau? When have you reached the next the next stage and it's always You know, it's always how do I get girls? How do I have a better life? How do I keep my hair? How do I, you know? How do I, you know, I eat better and then there's just I mean something that actually reminds me of rollo Is it sounds like self-improvement without a purpose or direction is like not just not just masturbation like ryan I call it but it's like not recognizing that you're male and what that means It's like aimless self-improvement. Well, I should also say here and I'll let you know pat jump in here a minute, but I think that that you It becomes It becomes a purpose unto itself. So it's like I'm doing this for me, you know Right, you know when you go to the gym you like to say I've I've I've yet to meet a guy who says he goes to the gym just to go get Get in as best shape as he can so you can get the most pussy that he can get right It's always I do it for me and you know There's always wants to be some sort of internal justification for why they're doing something I'm using gym. You know going to the gym and physical fitness as one aspect of that but there's other aspects as well that I think that We kind of fool ourselves that there's not another latent purpose to that as well. I mean, I'm glad that you do that I'm glad that that's you know something that's personally, you know validating for you great But there's also the side effect and the by you know the byproduct of that is you look better and and women Want to want to get with you more Carl did you have something? Yeah, I wanted to comment on the crab top thing because about two two and a half years ago I put out a monster of a blog post called the female sexual strategies part one and two where I have a gigantic flow chart And one of the strategies and there is the cool chick And I named it that because all of us have met a girl who's just one of the guys Now this is very similar to the strategy that a lot of beta males use where oh, I'm just going to identify with the feminine I'm going to agree with whatever you girls say. I'm going to support that. I'm going to basically be your male girlfriend And this is where I see these various niches of gamer girls Tread girls etc. They're just seeing that okay There is hunter drew out there There's a Craig James out there and a lot of these other guys who want the traditional lifestyle And if we jump in there We can actually get the kind of guy we want we'll get the guy who he has enough of an edge to still be exciting And he still has enough of personal responsibility to take care of us and to do his shit as a man Because a lot of the negotiation that the modern beta men does with women is basically saying that okay You know what if you let me let go the performance burden then You don't have to do shit And it's kind of like a negotiation of laziness like it's two potheds Discussing who's buying the pizza and who's rolling the next joint. It's like well, you know we'll both settle for the bare minimum and I get laid once a week I get the starfish duty sacks and I'll make sure you're not one of the 40 50 percent of women Who end up in poverty because they don't have a man after the age of 35 Yeah Yeah, I wanted to do a comment on Rolo, I think roller made the comment a little bit earlier about the his books Okay, in fact, I I dealt with that here at home personally Well, you don't want to you don't want to give those to your sons Do you because you don't want your you don't want your boys to grow up to be players And and the deal is look They got to know the rules to the game It's like they're going there you're going out to play football But you don't know how to play football. You don't know how the game's played. We've been handing them I somebody used the analogy. It's not perfect But we've been handing the guys the rules to baseball. It doesn't work in football. You know what I'm saying So, um, I might not want my boys to grow up to be players But they got to understand what's going on and and how they're all being played this This series of books the rational mail has has implications for just about everything in society It's not just not just the dating game is not not being married It's it's just how you interact with people of the other sex Yeah, one thing I wanted to bring up for an open question or you know, kind of issue for all of us to go over I feel like and role is talking about this plenty on this blog with uh Particularly like in churches and things like that But it's almost like tradcons in particular are really dedicated to men manning up Just to the point that they're more powerful and more masculine But just still within the control of women in their lives They want a better plow horse I really yeah a much better plow horse and I feel like that's what they're feeding into The strongest much more so than for example, maybe the puas or something like that Yeah, exactly. Anthony here. I'll go ahead roll them. I was just just going to say that I was just going to use the uh the apple k married man sex life Blog and forums going down. Uh, uh, As an example of that, um, I was just looking at the the chat here a minute ago and they're talking about You know mail space and I've got a pretty solid post. I think um on mail space and how it is Invaded by women and how it is reformed and assimilated Uh, that's easy to see in sort of the smaller groups But when you get into a larger group where it's a a mostly mail space And we're not allowed to have mail space anymore We can you know, if you look at um, if you look at uh, the Was the harvard just banned all mail organizations or you know extracurricular organizations But women can still have their all women groups So when you're looking at a society and what I call it, you know feminine primary social order that is based on Men have to be overseen and they have to have you know, they've got to be Under surveillance all the time while women can go ahead and just have you know, whatever they want I mean, we're we're looking at like also The Boy Scouts is another good example of that I think too, but When we're talking about larger institutions, we're talking about like religion or we're talking about, uh, ideology political ideology We see how that the feminine imperative kind of works its way in to You know finding ways to make it about them to finding ways to make That's why one of the reasons we're even talking about this right now is I think is because we have Traditional conservative women who are trying to use and trying to assimilate the parts of the red pill that they agree with Want to to to fit in But up to a point and that's really what happened I think with with apple k and married man sex life is it fell apart because and in the beginning it was a very solid You know pro masculine pro man male space and step by step inch by inch Women became more and more a part of it and became you know responsible for the message and and basically Assimilated and turned it into something that was ever intended to be now I see a lot of that or I see a potential for that In in the man's sphere. I see that a lot of guys who are going to want to they're going to want to placate to the watch Are they going to they're going to want to? um They they like pat was saying that you know, there's there's this worry about these guys who are going to take The red pill or take what I write or the game they're you know game of some sorts or pickup artistry and they're going to use that to um to shirk their responsibilities for you know being these You know these good husbands are building themselves up to be You know better men for these women not for themselves for them and I think that it's It's a sign of the times really that they're trying to assimilate trying to get in there so that they can say well, okay You got us guys you the red pill is true all that stuff is great, but um now you have to use your superpowers for good and not for evil because we live in a Feminine primary social order and don't you want to benefit society because if you use it and if you want to be the guy who is Sitting poolside. Well, well the world burns Well, that makes you part of the problem And so they want to they want to use that at that morality Sense I think don't you care about yeah, I think it's incredibly stupid by the way when people say that about anybody wants to sit Poolside like I'm not that guy, but those people are not part of the problem. They're not even in the way They're just observing and that's right if they want to do that And I'll just be real quick here It's like when people come and hit me especially when it's trad cons where I get women will say well How many kids do you have right? I have one I am 50 years old I had been married for 21 and a half years and you know, I can I can run down all these pre-qualifiers It doesn't matter because they still see me disseminating information that could be used to Cut them out of the loop to cut them out of their ideological goals Um, you know in theory that I'm a danger to them or they'll agree with me up to a point Or they'll agree with me up until what's profitable to their their coaching, you know, uh Program or whatever it is that they you know their life coaching program with it They'll agree with me up to that point, but when it starts to become Uh a liability to them then they back off from it. So it's only done in half measures It's only you know man up to a point But not so much that you're going to be a threat to the power dynamic Carol here, I'll Oh, wait, it was Ryan first Ryan of your first go for it Yeah, well, I was gonna tie rollo I was gonna tie everything you're saying together here and kind of like a bigger picture So we've been over the past hour. We've talked about trad cons cause players gamer girls And it's all on a common theme So guys generally guys that can't succeed in like the traditional space which for today that's disposable girlfriends tinder free love 1960s bullshit They kind of build their own fantasy girls. So sometimes it's their waifu pillows. Sometimes it's that traditional conservative Catholic girl from the 1920s or whatever and When rollo talks about uh gamer girls, it's a niche thing So they and it's the oldest female seduction technique out there is to play to a man's ego So a bunch of guys show that this anime character is their ideal woman. So this woman's like see i'm your ideal woman And the guys believe it. It's not A problem with lies or with belief systems. It's one of perception Guys see it because it's what they want to believe and this is where I find the red pill is great because it's uh Uh, I gotta use an art reference here because it's hard to explain without sounding like a big fucking nerd, but So if you ever if people can't draw give them a photograph tell them to draw it They'll draw it and they draw what they know So what does an eye look like what does the head look like and the picture looks like absolute shit Turn it upside down And then people will draw it again But instead of drawing what they know they draw what they see and they tend to get a much more accurate photo out of it Now if you guys can draw the connection i'm going with here, it's the same thing with women You don't think trad con women she's actually wants to sit on the stove 12 hours a day barefoot and pregnant And you don't think that cosplay girl really wants to fight zombies with that gigantic fucking sword She's got wearing, you know, tiny little girl panties or whatever The whole point of red pill and why we're so I guess anti-trad con I guess is the best way to put an anti-white food pillow It's because they're not looking at reality. They're perceiving what they want to be there and it's It's a common thread and it seems that no matter matter what group we're talking about here It always has that exact same formula to it And it's crazy because once you get through rational male one and two you start getting into Like uh dal rock some of the other guys and you start to see I hate to use the matrix reference too since I just said I didn't want to be a fucking nerd But how you can only see the code you just see red right blue red head whatever It's just like that and it's It's just I just find it very fascinating and then when you see a guy coming at you when he's still talking about his unrealistic Wish for fantasy It's just kind of like watching a child just telling you that you don't know you're talking about it's hard to do anything But laugh Then make fun of their hairline Not mentioning anybody in specific on that one, but anyways, I've traveled on long enough. Carl. It's all you now, man There's my art reference for the day That carl and pebble Well, I just wanted to comment that I I was sitting here thinking because I come from a family where you know Most of the marriages and relationships around me have been lasting for over 30 years So i'm not the child of the divorce nor have I grown up with divorce around me And one of the things that I've noticed is that In all those couples they view marriage as kind of a means to an end They get into it because it benefits both parties of it Towards an end they can both agree on but now it's pretty much that A woman gets married to use the man as a means to realize her own end And that was my note that Yeah, I wanted to jump in on the Man I lost my train of thought there I made a note the uh Oh the shame the shame. Okay, so when I started bringing rollo on okay first of all I mentioned I cleaned up the language for You know terrestrial radio because we can't use four letter explos and some people went out and and purchased the The audible book like I did see when when you're a radio talk show host if you do it right you uh You develop a relationship with your listeners and your listeners Become your friends and and they they grow to trust you And when you promote something or endorse something, you know that means something to the listeners So when when I brought rollo on and I'm talking about his book and I'm saying it's a good thing Some people were disappointed when they get the the audible book and they hear the four letter explos You know, I'm a little disappointed in you So they're shaming me because I'm recommending something that's got Language that they don't hear from me or they don't approve of So so that I'm I'm a tech or people will ask me are you going through a midlife crisis or I've noticed a change in you somebody somebody asked me are you getting divorced? It's like all of a sudden if you start to go to red pill with people You get attacked and they try to shame you Like crabs in a bucket. They're pulling you back And because the and the reason for that is because they want to see a certain predictability in you They want to be able to predict your response They and that gives them a sense of control or at least a sense of comfort with you in most cases But in some cases a sense of control over you so they're expecting you to be the same person all the time And yeah, I tell you guys this all the time when they when they finally sort of come to terms with the red pill and they you know They unplug Yeah, I tell them that that's the first thing you're going to notice You're going to see people who are going to say, you know, there's a change in you or what you know How did you know when did you turn into an asshole? You know, or it's like they're just the reasons because there's nobody's and nobody's telling them No, is there a told them these These you know these basics before and so I think that and I'm glad you brought a brought that point because it's another thing That traditional conservatives have a problem with is they they have a problem with the delivery I've had to deal with that constantly where they're saying, you know, uh, you could be nicer in your delivery You could you know, uh, you could just tell this stuff in in such a way that women wouldn't be so turned off to And I'm like, no the reason that it is inflammatory to you isn't necessarily the language It's the information that's in the language of what I'm telling you so I can tell you, you know I can tell you all about hypergamy in sweet nice scientific Scientific ways, but you're still going to disagree with it and you're still going to have a problem with it because you just me bringing that up it is It's It's iconic plastic. It's iconic plastic. It breaks that breaks their their ego investments in that So there you talk about my wife. Yeah, exactly. And so yeah And so just getting getting back to what ryan was saying is like, yeah, which you know, there's a reason why guys Have waifu pillows or there's a there's a reason why they want that because it's an ideal It's an idealism for them. They want to know that they can be satisfied They want to know that there's that's why we believe in oneitis. We're just talking about pat and I were talking about oneitis on friday The reason that that is so such a seductive mythology for really both sexes but for men and in particulars because men tend to be far more idealistic in their outlook on life Whereas women are far more Internalistic or opportunistic, you know, we always I always talk about I try to make a case here in as many different ways but That women are solstice and it's been in both of my books. It's I've got you know, several Blog posts about that if anybody wants to read about it, but that's an innate part of women's, you know, evolved Psyche or their mental firmware. So there's that aspect where it's men like I was just I think it was Stephen Pink was just saying that men tend to be more interested in things where women tend to be more interested in people And we have kind of built a social order for the you know, since the sexual revolution that has prioritized women And and in doing so it has made How women communicate and women's it's why I say the feminine imperative their imperatives and the things that benefit them the most Those become the correct things in society Whereas before things were a little bit more balanced because we didn't have to worry You know the in the men and women that we're dealing with an older social order that older social order came from a lot of other Different things. Well, I have a specific question for you. It just occurred to me. It should have been maybe obvious sooner Do you think that political correctness running just completely out of control in recent decades has a lot to do with the way females and women Communicate Yeah Yes, absolutely and and I think that that women Communicating a covert so there's a language that women use is that they prefer to use because women's brains are wired for communication Or I could show you dozens of different studies about the, you know, sexual differences between, you know, the neurology of Men and women they are wired for communication They are wired for understanding things are wired for emoting And in the series that i'm working on right now, which is um instinct emotion reason Emotion is probably the single most important part of that equation to women because it's how that conversation makes them feel It's not like when men communicate they communicate information and it's all about the contact The content of what they're what that conversation is about, you know, uh, how to fix a car how to do this how you know It's like how to we're dealing with things when it comes to women It is how does this conversation make me feel it's about the context of the Of that conversation between two like women will get together And they will talk to each other and they'll they'll set up, you know At time just so they can communicate whereas men we get together because we have something to do We have to go out and you know We're looking at it even even more we're socializing we're looking outward and not at each other We're looking at the game or we're looking at what's going on Whereas women are looking at you know face-to-face and talking to each other because that is part of that different communication style So when you take that and you build that into a social narrative now the only correct way To communicate is how women communicate because that's why we have such a Emphasis on teaching boys to get in touch with their emotions teaching men and teaching boys to emote I constantly said I've said this on on patch show several times that we teach or we teach boys to we teach boys Is if they're defective girls? Well, they're defective because their natural inclination is not to communicate and not to To interpret information cognitively as a girl does and that's I think is one of the biggest disservices We're doing right now, but then that if you extrapolate that into a bigger social narrative Yes, definitely. That's why we get to this pc We want to wrap ourselves in bubble wrap We need our safe spaces because we're not focusing on the information We're focusing on how it makes us feel and that's exactly why we have safe spaces and it's exactly why you know women Get They'll go protest a guy not because of what he's saying But because of what he made that group of people feel and that group of people are emoting or they're interpreting Information and they're interpreting The the the debate in the conversation in emotional terms and so that's why you've got you know That's why we're in this the situation. We're in right now. Really. What is antifa antifa is just an emotional reaction or emotional outburst because they don't know how to deal with that information like a man would deal with it so you're looking at the result of You know probably what four or five generations of these guys and women who have learned that the only way To cognitively process information is in an emotional sense. So yes, definitely Like a fucking two-year-old that has no impulse control with placating parents That goes back to that goes back to instinct for sure But you know, it's interesting when I when I'm all with pat like pat was saying like before we started here that the Occasionally we'll have the the one family a rabid feminist that comes on but pat was saying that you know for the most part The women reader the women readers or the women listeners agree with what I'm what I'm saying I I remember what pat was telling me like off air. He said, you know, they had some I guess they had some you know meetings as to what he shows about and you know, they're they're bringing up my name And the women in the group are saying, yeah, I agree with whatever, you know, exactly with what he's saying But we're thinking oh my gosh is he is he gonna is this bad? Is this going to lose his listeners or whatever else because the dialogue or the idea in our social order is that The information that I'm providing is offensive It's not that it's not how I'm it's not how I'm delivering it so much as the information itself that becomes That becomes the the catalyst for being offended by it Yeah, it being right or wrong has been reduced to relevancy Just like girls how they don't like watching animals get slaughtered, but they're perfectly happy to eat meat. It's Like you said before with your roller coaster analogy They don't they don't mind the danger because the payoff is great. They just don't want to be exposed to it Yeah, or they want it. They want to know people are in control of it behind the scenes Yeah And so like with pat if they're making fun of you for having five kids or making fun of you for not having 20 kids It's like, well, fuck you're not my judge if they're willing to pay the child support You're willing to have as many kids as they want, but they don't seem to will it to pay up for those opinions They just kind of want you to That's their tune to make them feel good about their personal life choices. Yeah, let me let me jump in on that Yeah, we were talking about uh, you know people say are you changing? I read a book probably about 15 years ago Change your thinking change your life by brian tracy And it was an epiphany for me and I think that uh One of the problems with guys is a lot of guys once they hit 40. They just they're stuck They don't grow. They don't read. They don't do anything. They're stagnant And in the workforce, especially the you know, the industry. I mean that could be that could be the death nail That could put you out of business, but you should be you should constantly Be questioning your belief system. Okay. Why do I believe this? Is it because I was I was raised that way I was taught that way. Is it true today? You should constantly be changing or challenging your your belief system And if you're the same at 40 as you were at 20, you're the problem You're the problem. You're stagnant not not only are you not not only are you not gaining ground You're you're losing ground. Well, in my case, you would have rejected the burden of male performance, right? Oh, absolutely Sorry to interrupt. I don't know if you That was pretty much my thought on that one though So but you should you should constantly be challenging the other thing with me is My listeners know that I'm not a follower. I haven't been a follower since I was 17 I had a pivotal moment at 17 that that took me from Being somebody who follows to somebody who leads. So I'm my own guy I'm not I'm not just going to you know follow something because well This is what conservatives are supposed to believe or or this is what your church teaches that you've got to do I like like I said, you should be constantly questioning What your your belief system on a regular basis going is it true today? It may have been true 10 years ago Is it true now and if so why? Carl Yeah, I was Back to Rallo's question about the female versus male communication styles I was going to post an essay today entitled the I've got 99 problems and soy is every fucking one and in that I was Going through basically what this soy boy is because I used to hate that meme But I've started to use it and I've even had other people start to use it Like I've been referring to HR at my company as team soy for the past couple of months And I got a phone call from the CEO the company going well, you should check it with team soy on monday So it's catching on and I'm making it happen But one the two things that you notice a major difference on the big five personality inventory between men and women is agreeableness and neuroticism And what you see with women is they are very focused on maintaining the peace within the group That's why they tend to use covert communication If you look at boys and girls in high school or younger the boys will fight physically They will beat the shit out of each other and they'll be friends the next day the women will draw this out into a long Game of throwing style intrigue Well, they're go back and forth fighting each other Covertly and that's because for women to be ostracized from a group Back in the caveman days would have been that Men have voluntarily left the group regularly because they felt like I can do better without these people tying me down And what makes uh, let's say a beta male or a soy boy different is simply the fact that they've adopted the female perspective Instead of confronting someone directly they use social media Instead of talking to someone about something they will spread rumors in the peer group And they'll be like well, you know pat we've talked together in the group And i'm not going to say who said what but we're think you're being somewhat offensive and not really Doing the best in the best interest of the company by bringing this Supposedly rational mail on every week. I'm not sure what's going on with you, but we're concerned about you Sounds like you've been sitting outside the beauty Sounds like every fucking board meeting I've been on Jesus Let me let me jump in on something That just popped into my head The role of testosterone and it really is what makes a guy a guy My dad was diagnosed with the prostate cancer a number of years ago And he agreed to a treatment that included a series of shots that completely shut down his testosterone production So when the testosterone's down the estrogen goes up it completely changed my dad's personality My dad went from being the strong silent stoic type to a guy that was very emotional and and just He was cranky at times, but that was even joking around with him I said are you watching a lot of lifetime tv? He didn't think that was too funny but once the treatment excited And his I guess natural testosterone given his age and everything slowly creeped back He was back to be a dad again. You know in talk radio land There's a lot of uh hormone replacement therapy or or trt places that advertise But they always sell it on the sex component, which is important But what it really is important for is a sense of well-being a lot of guys that are 40 and older who go to the doctor I just don't feel like myself. I don't have energy. I'm feeling anxious. I'm depressed The first thing the doctor wants to do is put you on an antidepressant when that's not what you need You need to get your testosterone levels checked You need to get your your free total testosterone and free testosterone checked and a lot of times That's the problem and that can be quickly rectified Yeah, rich cooper's really hard on that right now. He's uh, I forget the guy he had on not too long ago on his on his show But yeah, he was saying Yeah, yeah, so yeah, and uh, and he was even hitting me up afterwards He's like you got to go get your testosterone checked. I'm like, I don't think I've never had a problem with that But I will now after I saw that So yeah, and yeah, exactly. It's funny how you should I mentioned that seems like that when when it's sold It's sold on the sexual component. It's sold on how can I satisfy my wife better? How can I it's really what um when you look at Viagra, it's not so much a you know an erectile dysfunction Drug as it is. Uh, here's how you satisfy your wife drug And so it ends up becoming who are you doing it for you're doing for yourself Are you doing it so that you know, you can keep your marriage together? I think it's interesting how they prioritize Let me let me jump in on here's here's the other thing with the hormone replacement therapy I think one of the big problems is it's sold only to the males if you're going to do it It's got to be a couple of things because if you if you put papa at 50 On hormone replacement therapy testosterone He's going to have the libido of a 28 year old Meanwhile, the wife has either gone through or is headed toward menopause And those those two ships are not going to pass in the night. I can't tell you how many relationships I know Any relationships I know about that have broke up over that so what they really need to do is go in as a couple And and approach it as a couple not not just one or the other Bring a mistress That'll boost your testosterone yeah All right, we should take some questions here before Pat's got to hop off a little bit We had a few come in I posted them in the chat Also while you're looking at questions Congratulations Not a single purple pill life coach has tried to build their brand off of talking shit to anybody here Just I think it's a round of applause worthy there Looking well done I you know, it's I it's interesting to see what what what that branch of you know The man's fair is doing these days when it comes to you know building a brand on on exactly this The sort of reinterpretation of this re You know this new understanding or you know an attempt to water down the red pill red pill truths and Yeah, exactly China where it's built and then put my stippers on it and all of a sudden it's way better like no, it's not Let's get the uh, yeah, go ahead. Good a question here from boo boo on youtube fantastic name What do you do if you're stuck in the red pill rage or depression phase? What makes it hard is you cannot talk about this stuff with people in real time or they will kill you I don't think he means it literally but yeah One thing that was awesome about jordan peterson is he mentioned this is if you're having an emotional reaction to something after the fact It's because you haven't processed it Write it down. Honestly. That's why I started my blog I was really fucking pissed at the military and then once you started to write things down you put connections together and it It chills you right out and you start to once you understand what's going on So that's all that anger is and it's a logical background to it So you're saying basically you've externalized it into writing and you can understand it better that way And I've seen jordan talk about that as well Like if you guys ever try like I know obviously carl has and rolo has but if you guys ever tried this write something down When you couldn't understand it and then you like it's a stark example of where your gaps are in your knowledge because you can't You can't just like blather along or use metaphors in that you kind of really have to understand things It's like how teaching is the best way to remember the same thing like that Well, I know a guy who he used to work as a psychiatric nurse and what his job was basically take people who had Suffer from depression, anxiety, psychosis, schizophrenia, whatever Out on things that would kind of brighten their day because they were locked up in an institution and what he said was If you put an axe in someone's hands and tell them to chop wood Nobody has depression Nobody has rage because if you're swinging an axe you have to concentrate on the axe Otherwise, you're going to chop your leg off and what I found for me is I'm naturally a bit more Let's say analytical and thought oriented So for me what happens works is getting physical with it put things into practice go to the gym and work out uh go to some cardio And just let things ruminate in the back of your mind for a while and things will Tend to work out and I think it depends on whether you're kind of an a doer guy or a thinker primarily I I deal with uh, I mean I've been doing a little bit of counseling on the sides for guys these days and Uh, this is a real common question. I get guys that how do I get past this abyss? And that's what I call them for lack of better terms what I call the abyss And it's really hard for for men who have been You know conditioned by the blue pill for so very very long And then they even come across just maybe not even my books Maybe they just come across something in the man's sphere that that really awakens them or speaks to them in some way Because I you know the the joe guy always have is that you know No guy is actually looking for the man's sphere, but you know, he they seem to find it when they need to find it We don't advertise. I mean if you look at the The only press we seem to get in the man's sphere is really just bad press But yet still with all of that stacked against it it still speaks to guys and still wakes them up and it's still You know it presents something to them that's really uncomfortable and that's Part of I think the process of unplugging I talked about unplugging in the various five stages of unplugging But I think that one of the you know the The most difficult phase is the guys who get nihilistic about things and they want to say that You know Everything is hopeless because their hope had been built on this old blue pill Idealism and now they have this red pill truth that is Contradicting everything that had to do with whatever they've been taught And so a lot of this you know manifests as anger a lot of it can manifest as depression um, you know So I I think that that's part of the part of the rap I think that uh, even what we're talking about, you know, trad cons of pc You know view of of the red pills they they think that it's all just about anger They think it's all just about nihilism and it's not and I think that if I was to give a guy advice when they're in that Crossing of the abyss phase is that you need to be more They need to understand that there's more opportunity Knowing the truth and building a life and building your idealism Based on a red pill truth instead of the blue pill that has been trumped You know that's been keeping them You know as a useful animal to serve a particular purpose whereas now they're cut away from that And so yeah, it can be it can be it can be very a shock to the system And so you know people want to interpret that anger is anger towards women It's not anger towards women It's anger towards themselves for having lived a certain way for so long and not having seen it before Let me let me jump in on the anger real quick Guys our automatic default is anger. That's when we're frustrated when we're upset We get angry women get emotional women cry guys go to anger first Let me share a real quick story first time. I ever got fired from talk radio I was fit to be tired. I was pissed. I mean people thought I was going to do something bad to my former employer I mean that's how stewed I was and I sat around probably for close to six months Just pissed off and and I was snappin at everybody around me my wife my kids I was just I was nobody wanted to be near me because I was that pissed off And then I had an epiphany I realized that being pissed off didn't hurt the guy I wanted to hurt The only person it hurt was me and the people around me that I supposedly loved right? So I I I dealt with that anger I just put it aside and I got my ass busy finding my next job because I had to put food on the table I had to provide for my family but that life lesson for me Anger anger and depression Does nothing to solve a problem. It only hurts you. You got to get busy. You got to move forward You got it. You got to take action sitting around being angry pissed off. It doesn't do anything It just it allows you to stagnate and you just you just you just wallow in mediocrity One thing I wanted to add on this role mentioned that guys are angry at themselves I agree 100 but I think in addition to that there's legitimate anger against an entire system That's stacked through multiple generations at this point against men There's real hostility at this point that you're showing me a link earlier today rollo from terry cruz That's uh calling masculinity at cult or something. Yeah, terry cruz. You know a famous actor called masculinity at cult It's like you go fuck yourself. No, it's not Exactly His success is almost directly attributable to the conventional masculinity if you look at the guy I mean look where you know look where he's at and the opportunities that he's had It's because of conventional masculinity that has put him where he's at But yet his conditioning is such that he wants to identify and align himself with with with women Now I think that when you know when I'm when I'm I think one of the One of the the biggest lies I want to say is when guys are criticizing the red pill They think that it's just about anger. They think it's only about that face They think it's only about uh getting angry with women or getting angry at Um getting angry at society. Okay. I it first of all, it's not and I can I can show you a million different ways Why it's not I can show you at least a thousand different guys You've you know benefited and saved their own lives because of it. But that being beside the point I think that what That particular mindset has a problem with red pill is because they think that it gives those guys a license To be pissed off. They give them a license to not Be concerned with themselves. I think that's one of one of the reasons that critics focus so much on migtails because they think that that is the end result of Understanding red pill awareness and I'm telling you right now. It doesn't have to be that at all I can understand why guys go migtail But it doesn't have to be that and it doesn't have to be that that you know that anger But I think that it comes back to A conflict with with personal responsibility like you were just saying a little while ago Just to say and just to point out things in society That are you know part of the feminine imperative that are stacked against guys The trad con pc Uh response to that as well. It's because of men. It's because you're not living up to your responsibility It's only a problem because you haven't found it within yourself to to to change yourself to to be a better person And so it always it always comes back the other way like when when I look at the the stuff from from tony robbins Or I look at the stuff from uh from jordan peterson or I look at the stuff Even a lot of the new stuff that's coming out of rsd these days. It's all about fix yourself fix yourself fix yourself Okay, I get that that's fine. You can and they keep coming back to this But guess what sometimes your life is shit because other people are shit Sometimes it's shit because of circumstances how you deal with that. Yeah, that's on you. Okay, fine But you know what those circumstances are shit and they had nothing to do with you Okay, and I think that it's a it's a mistake to automatically You know just have it as your default You know response to to accept that You are always the one to blink and it's it's it's the easiest way out It's the easiest prescription for you guys social security social security in the united states has been bankrupt since I think the late 1980s When I was born, so it's like that was dumped on me. It's a generation by generations before me How the fuck is that my fault exactly and and a trad con responses that well, you need to fix yourself You know, this wouldn't have happened if you were to just fix yourself and it's like How am I how am I part of this, you know, yeah, exactly One thing that's good about that from a self-improvement perspective is once you have unfucked yourself at least then Anything that does happen you have that confidence to say well, that's not my problem You just yeah, it's so you can look yourself It's and then it's all we want at the end of the day Just a little dignity to look at yourself in the mirror and know that you're not a bag of shit Is that so much I mean there's a lot to ask but it shouldn't be a lot to ask So, yeah No, but the touch on things that All of you guys have said here now what we're essentially doing to man in today's society Is that we're teaching them the wrong words to the star say a spangled banner? And then when they get pissed off because all the other kids are making fun of them because they sang it wrong in recess or whatever Then we're telling them. Oh, you shouldn't be angry because we fucked you over You need to go ahead and fix yourself. You're the problem here because you were too gullible Yeah, this is a cluster. This is a cluster v's do too, uh, carl Yeah, it's a brilliant cluster v tactic because basically they tell you the wrong rules Then when you respond to as well, you know, jesus, why didn't you listen to me? And they're not wrong wrong with your judgment. No, they're not wrong Per say but let's say if you're if let's say I was your dad ryan And i'm not because i'm right but other points with standing my dad's a redhead if you if you didn't know That definitely disqualifies me, but anyway Anyway, the case is if if when you're two years old Your mother Well, let's say you're a lesbian mother told you every day that you're a man and you're everything that's wrong with the world And everything about all your natural proclivities interests and reactions are wrong And then then you're going to live your entire life Based on the premise that oh, I shouldn't do that. I shouldn't do that You can never build confidence like that because the way you build confidence is through success And the way you let's say experience success is seeing a situation Acting in the situation and seeing you get an outcome. That's actually worth it So a lot of guys they come to the red pill and they realize that oh crap someone told me the wrong words to this national anthem and they Either get depressed because they can I can't believe I spent 15 20 30 years of my life On this following the wrong rules or they get angry. Why did they don't like me? So that's a kind of a classic cluster v tactic. They put you in a situation where either you're Angry with yourself or you're angry with everyone else and you're told that you know anger is not acceptable So you get depressed, but depression doesn't fix anything It just puts you wallowing in the same spot You were in five minutes ago 10 minutes ago 10 months ago 12 months ago 15 months ago and It keeps you trapped in a Yeah, it's like keeps you trapped in a cycle like betas who can't figure out the negative consequences of blue pill behavior No matter how many consequences they get thrown on their face. It is because they stuck in that cycle You've written about this in your blog a lot carl. I think Yeah, this is kind of why they want men to have more emotions. Well like fuck We just gave you two when you just threw it back in our face. Go fuck yourself Yeah But this is kind of why I wrote that post a while back ago about hyper agency and hypo agency because You basically have two types of people you have people who are saying that we are responsible for everything Let's say you were away for 12 months feeding your family and your wife cheated on you Then well, that's your fault for not doing the right thing and not being alpha enough Or you're the guy who's always there always helpful and that's your fault for not being alpha enough Or you have the guy who's basically sitting there going. Well, whatever happens happens. I'm not to blame I have no agency whatsoever and The truth is there's a middle ground here because you can do your absolute best and your wife can still cheat on you but you can also do your absolute best and she won't and Anger and anger is there because I think anger is the most fantastic emotions in the world because in my life Nothing has brought me more progress than that moment when someone tells me you can't do this or You won't be able to figure this out and I'm like, you know what? Fuck you. I'm going to figure this out and I'm going to do it for no other reason than to show you that you're wrong Hell, yeah despite And what the german is called schadenfreude are the two strongest male emotions in the world Being able to use anger to propel you forward and pleasure in the pain of people who fucking deserve it It well, it's probably the reason that anger gets shut down so quick because it's so useful and productive and normal It's a normal part of human life and it's it's productive like you're saying carl. I agree I think pat has to take off now Yeah, i gotta plug out carl. You nailed it with spite spite has driven me to do many great things over the years It's a it's a it's a great force to be recommended Thanks for the opportunity guys. Keep up the good work. Appreciate it. All right, man. Thanks for dropping on man See you soon. Great to meet you pat Say pat Really like that guy. Yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, it's it's great. It's it's such a great opportunity And it's it's it's awesome when we get into I mean we we talk mostly about like current affairs and stuff like that But like last last uh last friday We were just sort of getting into some old school stuff because he's still reading my books And so a lot of this is kind of it's kind of new to him at least what what I write about And so he uses those as sort of show topics and man I'll tell you with the the the best responses we get are when when we go back to like, you know The nine rules of tomah, you know the iron rules of tomasi or we go back to a burden of performance Or we go back to something that like I wrote about probably like, you know eight years ago And and and it's you know and like he was saying most of the women Agree with it. It's guys that get out and get all pissy and you know because they don't They want it. Yeah, they want to jump up and white knight for for for womankind and identify You know well occasionally We'll get the uh the occasional feminist the arabid feminists will come in there and should just basically rattle off this You know the standard boilerplate. They all do I'm really impressed at how old-school masculine that is. Oh, yeah, super badass like 1940s like i'm gonna crack your skull if you thought with me With 13 brothers and sisters because if you weren't like that you didn't eat I don't know what his schedules like very much like to get him at the 21 convention Yeah, let's let I want to talk to him about speaking. I am very very open to that idea right now. That's going on minutes All right Uh, wait, what other questions do we got going on here in the chat? We got a few more in the private group chat. I posted a group chat. Uh, you can read them off if you want I'm gonna take some down here Oh, yeah, there was one with uh the pastor. I was trying to I missed it where he said what denomination He was from i'm curious Oh So one question in there about blue pilling your friends from a guy called morpheus reborn Yeah This is one of my things because I I've kind of been sharing this issue I've been having with a co-worker of mine whom I Fortunately developed a soft spot for Who is the ultimate blue pill idealist and he just keeps getting punched in the face He's punching himself in the face And he's not ready to accept the red pill yet And I've been trying to kind of subtly introduce him to things like okay, maybe you should start lifting weights Maybe you should do a google search for why Women aren't working out for you because I don't want to come straight out to him and tell him like well You know what go read this blog Then you go read this blog Then go on amazon and buy a couple of rational mailbooks read them annotate them And then come and ask me if you have any questions because that's kind of outing yourself And you really don't want that fire against your corporate environments Yes, we don't have it as strong in canada like is i mean you obviously We get the me too emails in that too, but at the same time it's uh You just got a I guess there's a tact involved, but it's this car compartmentalization It's like everything you kind of go into a meeting to start dropping f-bombs around You don't walk in there with a t-shirt and jeans I just find that along as you keep the same compartmentalization. It's fine Granted as soon as you hit the news all bets are off at that point. It's just about Deflecting bad press. So Yeah, I guess it's yeah, you and I kind of know that more than rollo and anthony They kind of they've built their own corporations. So it's do you guys were probably speaking swahili? No, i spent my time in the cubicles too, man I've never had a real job other than the one I created out of thin air at 17 So i'm just happy doing that. There's no feminism in this workplace. It's fucking great I don't have to deal with the soy team And uh, I can you know, nobody can fire me. So it's fucking awesome I will tell you that you can get away with I think the core to being able to be yourself more in a corporate environment A build a confidence that is very rare and very valuable Because everyone will accept the asshole if the asshole is a rainmaker And secondly authenticity if people can tell that this is authentically this guy They will tend to give you a lot a lot less shit for it Then if they think this is an act he's putting on Yeah, you know that yeah that guy throws random shit at everyone And he he's the guy who will drop f bombs in the conference room regardless of who's in there You get away with it if well, it's consistent. Yeah Yeah Same as when people were talking about how pat was saying once he started red pilling himself people are asking What's wrong with you is that a mid-life crisis? They don't Care as much what you are as opposed to if you're changing because that has they have to rewire their mental models for you And amazing Yeah, my first when I first got on ship. I had that it was my first boss and he said My first day and it was that was just a brand new ordinary semen he goes First day here you act like you know what you're doing and people are going to believe you and it's been the mantra ever since like 12 15 years later and it's never failed me Yeah, that's that's one of the problems I have with these guys are you know I want to want to rely almost entirely on you know personality types and stuff like that They think that that's you know, you're just born with these personality types in your your your set or or maybe you can change them But it takes a whole lot to change these things. I will tell you right now that neuro plasticity is completely against that idea um, I mean just Breaking, you know like like you were saying like uh, even pat really you can you can be pushed in you know Just circumstantially you can be pushed into Um different ways of thinking and different ways, you know, like you said you can you can question your old beliefs And then that can change you as a person that can change your personality and that's why I think a lot of I think a lot of people who are against the red pill particularly women see See men changing like that thing. Oh, well, he was used to be such a nice guy and now he's an asshole He must it must be this red pill stuff. He's he's you know taking on well, you know right there I mean first of all, yeah, it's it's meant to change your personality It's meant to change your outlook on life because you have a new you know, you've got a new perspective That's why we call it red pill awareness That's why I call it unplugging because you're unplugging from that old thing and you're not the same person again And I keep telling guys this all the time. So once you have read my books Once you have what's you and they don't even read my books I mean just go and and be a part of the red pill community and go on the go and read it Or just have a red pill friend or something like that. Um, it will change your perspective on life And you cannot help but become somebody different. That's why I constantly tell these guys that you know Go make town go make town. No, I'm not saying go make town at all. I'm saying that that you cannot help but go your own way Because Yeah, you're going because you're doing something that the vast majority of guys on this planet are not doing I mean just Pareto principle aside. I mean most guys are blue pill beta guys And that's just that's just the the fact of the world and I find the uh I find the opposite behavior interesting as well where men like the puas are I think Particularly guilty of this but even regular, you know, normies subspeak that find information like this They want to like extract like the minimal amount of tactics I can't from it to get that one girl or accomplish like this one specific goal And they're very reluctant to make deep personality changes. Yeah. Well, that was one of the reasons why I think When athel k came out with the married man's you know primer for that book I used to I used to advise married guys to to read that book because I thought it was pretty good At least it was based on you know red pill principles now I can we can get into a really long discussion about the background of married man's sex life and athel k But I think that gradually and progressively You know women came into that fold and started changing up that message And the reason that they did that the reason so many wives became interested in athel k and married man's sex life Is because they saw that change in their husbands. They saw that they were reading this book or like I've got I've got guys that will Email me and I think I even I've told you guys this story before where I've got a guy that will email me and says, you know My girlfriend picked up The rational mail she started reading it and I'm like, okay, what happened? She says she said that all of this stuff in this book is true, but you shouldn't know any of it And that you know because that it was it was revealing all of this stuff because they're worried that that guy is going to change in such a way that he's going to realize that He could get a better deal or he could be, you know, if I if I'm telling a guy like here Here's a good example. I'm telling a guy, you know Don't be monogamous until you are, you know Probably mid 30s and then just you know experiment with it Certainly never get married certainly never make a long-term commitment until you are in your mid 30s Or just a little bit after that simply because that is The most likely time that you were going to be experiencing your sexual market value peak And I don't mean that in just sexual terms I mean that at that point in your mid 30s for a guy that is generally the time at which they're they're better established They are still in pretty good shape. They are a better They have more select sexually selective power at that particular point in time and the whole package Yeah, and if you look at how blue pill conditioning works for guys It is to keep them in this sort of suspended state of nice guy right up until Women want to get off the cock carousel right when they're done with their party years And they would be so that's why I call it the epiphany phase between 29 and 31 years old and they They are hoping against hope that these guys are still going to be these nice, you know perfectly docile But well educated well matured Have a good have a good job kind of guys that they can marry before They get to their mid life or their mid, you know They get to their mid 30s when they realize that holy shit. I could have got a better deal I could have married a better woman. I could I wouldn't be in this I mean all these guys that hit me up and say I wish I would have known this stuff sooner. Those are the guys Those are the guys who are coming back to me and saying, you know, say why I wish I would have had this but They get getting to a mid later. They're mid 30s and they're get there and yet they're If you can get into that and you can change yourself you can bring yourself into a new sort of thinking about yourself That is a threat. That's a big time threat to to the to the well blue pill conditioning, of course But certainly the feminine imperative and we're seeing a lot of guys become more red pill aware if not unplugged And I think that with open hypergamy examples of this everywhere Open hypergamy open cuckoldry All of the things that are going to remove the man All these things that are going on in a social sense are waking guys up And it's not so much even red pill guys that are that are waking up the most guys It's just living in this western society. That is a pro feminine future as female You know feminine imperative society is waking these guys up now I think they need to carry that up, you know to a different You know to to the next level and really become unplugged, but that's a threat Their awareness is a threat to the to that that power structure I absolutely agree and I wanted to say that I find it fascinating how extreme at this point and explicit The supremacism is getting I mean terry cruz at this point and other celebrities like hillard clinton Whether terry cruz calls masculinity a cult or hillard clinton says the future is female Or we get some toxic masculinity rambling analogy It's like they're demonizing half of the human race or half the people the men in this country Or you know the half of the population. It's like holy shit. You are absolutely insulting Yeah, yeah Well, and you know and when you got a guy like terry cruz you're you're looking at a guy I I see this constant. I see guys who are like these they Dwayne johnson comes to me. Yeah, exactly. Dwayne johnson is another guy. Um There's other guys who are so I don't want to use I hate to use celebrities so much because you know You're you're pulling them out of the realm of the average guy But I see guys who are what I call blue pill alphas And people think that's that's sort of an oxymoron. No, it's not You can definitely be a a huge blue pill conditioned guy and still be very very alpha And still white knight the hell out of people and are you know out of women? I think terry cruz is a very good example of that Because he's going I mean for christ sake the guy goes to the women's summit or whatever I didn't even know this thing existed and I probably wouldn't if it hadn't been him saying that You know masculinity is a cult at this this thing and he's telling them and he's doing exactly what I said in Identity crisis. He's trying to become more alike. He's trying to align more with that because that is his That that is a way he thinks it's going to make him a better person It's going to make him a better guy It's going to lift him up if he's saying the things that they want to hear And he has a buffer He's a big strong attractive man And they want like for example a pat steadman up there saying the same thing and they're going to call him A homosexual and laugh him off the stage Yeah They can afford to From an alpha bill that's interesting Okay, so if we're going to pick up people but I was going to say that um The the personality The personality change is one of the reasons like when we're talking about like what what a pat was saying before he left Guys when you unplug and when you go we become red pill wear You again, you cannot help but live in a different way. You can't go back You can't unsee the red pill and that's why I always say look You know you're going to have to deal with it because even if you put your head in the sand and if you even if you go into complete denial About red pill awareness, you're still going to see things in your environment going on around you And I you're going to have some guy point out, you know that the fact that you know, uh, women get uh Less prison time than guys do and here's here's a half a dozen different stories Or here's another example of how men get screwed over and divorced Here's another example of how hypergamy works There's all the stuff going on the periphery And they can't help but understand it now What that does is that's going to change those guys personality is going to change their outlook And that I think is one of the reasons why so many wives got involved with apple k and why so many women In this spinster generation when we're looking at women between Like we're looking at never married or divorcee women. That's why do you think that? Um, we talked about this on the last show. Why do you think that ebb and mark hats mark manson? Uh past ebb and What's the other guy? There's another dude that tucker max Tucker max is Tucker max is Tucker max is is a wannabe at these guys, but you got you these pretty boy guys With the exception with the exception of maybe like, you know pat steve You got these pretty boy guys that these women are they're thinking Oh, if I could just find a guy like And the mark hats if I could just find a guy like mark manson, you know And they get married and they suddenly they take on this really pro feminine pro female um, you know theme That they never had before and they they represent this guy that is You know, oh, he's woke enough so he'll know exactly how to please me You know, and he's telling guys how to be better guys, you know, and they want to believe That The red pill is going to change these guys to the point where they're going to be these misogynistic assholes who are Going to just use this automatically to You know to to make the lives of women worse And I was telling pat before he left I said that there's the the trad con A women the red pill women side of things really want There to be some sort of responsibility to red pill guys They want the red pill guys to say, okay, we got you we understand the game We know how to play we know how to just get it now. We know all this stuff So women say, okay, you got us Now it's on you now you have to make good decisions with this now you have to do, you know use your superpowers for good and not for evil and It's like what by what standard by what standard the standard of women rather than So again, and this is what I meant by the assimilation of the red pill into a feminine primary Way of like male space like a red pill is is definitely a male space Is women infiltrating into that Male space of the red pill and saying yeah, this is Oh, we just lost rollo. I think rollo just disconnected That's fine. I'll be I know where you go The end of rollo tamasi Yeah This congruence tests when like she gives you the reins at that point is like, all right big boy You're the man take the reins and she'll shit test the fuck out of you and that's fine Yeah, so I was just kind of leading into that with the paper alphas where they they do all the right things So she gives them the reins and then they just fuck it up You kind of have to own that so when you're when you were saying like to be the better plow horse Well, then you decide what that means. Well, then it the message doesn't become the red pill anymore It becomes whatever women want to say that it is and I think that that is the the most dangerous part of this bastardization of the red pill Right now is that it's people saying, okay. Here's my ideology and I must be right So it's red pill and therefore if it's true, then I'm red pill and they're trying to pick up on that branding That's one of the things that it's one of the reasons I got so so bent about A voice for men and the mra's using the red pill Rollo, your voice is a little the volume is a little bit lower than usual. How about now? I'm gonna lift it. Is that good? Yeah, good But using that as their own personal moniker or or you know, adopting the red pill whereas before they were very much Against anything that would have been red pill or anything that would be associated putting on a rollo skin suit to pretend to be a man Fucking embarrassing Well, and then so I mean I think that that's really important So if you are like new to this if you are a guy who's just coming into the red pill awareness like like pat For example pat is you know, I've only been talking with pat for probably the last what month and a half two months I consider him a fairly newly unplugged guy. I mean he's he's pretty much conventionally masculine to begin with But he just doesn't uh, he just never had it articulated for him And so he's picking this up now, but I think that it's really important for guys who are Not quite crossing that abyss like we were talking before and they don't want to they don't want to go all the way They don't want to they still want to cling to those blue pill ideals. They still want to have that Well, I can still have the white picket fence and the the disney, you know, I love you forever soulmate mythology It could still have those goals But uh, but really I'm red pill and I know what's going on No, you're not and you need to accept it in its full rather than You know go on board with somebody who's going to market to you and market to your idealism and market to your blue pill Comfort zone as opposed to really understanding what's going on It's important to keep in mind too that the red pill is open source and uh, you know, decentralized kind of communities So there is room to always improve But yeah, there's yeah, there's good there's good, uh, commander for that I love guys like ryan that, you know, moderate the red pill and he has an author you do well too on your own leading it The whole problem is that it's becomes a marketing thing and what you realize is if you market purely towards What pat said our demographic is men 20 to 40 That's a much smaller market than women and men 20 to 40 And I think that's why a lot of the people who rely on selling hours or coaching or help Try to appeal to women as well because they know that women will drag their men to couples counseling or to help Or whatever And at the same time asking for female opinions and perspectives in the red pill It's like asking the salmon for perspectives on bait I mean you don't ask the salmon for how you fish salmon you absurd the salmon and then you decide on your strategy for becoming a better fisherman Where you talk to talk to the fisherman, you know, I think and then you know, you got guys Like I said who who find the red pill and they they they'll find my books. They'll read my books and they'll they'll You know make it they'll internalize it. They'll internalize the information But they don't want to make that they don't want to cross that they like we were talking about before they They get angry or they go into this nihilism and I think that what we're seeing right now is this this profiteering or this marketeering on the parts of of you know Life coaches who want to say hey, look, I know you're angry, but you don't have to be because not all of that's true And let me tell you, uh, you know, let me placate to your idealism Yeah, pat stevin was particularly guilty of that just a week ago on twitter or some just totally trying to hop, you know Steel like theft from the red pill red pills, right except where my coaching comes in Yeah, it's picking and then he describes exactly what the fuck we were talking about anyway Yeah, well, and then I'm I'm seeing uh sort of I mean I I mentioned names. I mentioned evan mark keth There's another guy that rich mentioned. I really wish I could remember his name now I think it was Macy or massy or something like that But but again these these guys who go and if you go and you look at their alexa stats I mean they have like such a huge, you know female demographic following It's like who is this information really for is it for is it to to make women feel better about Possibly being able to find their own ideal chick or their own ideal guy or is it about, you know, blue pill guys wanting to You know Have a better marriage or whatever wanting to have a better, you know, have a better relationship or even find a relationship And honestly, I think what it does is it's it's sort of a regression The purple pill is definitely a regression. A lot of people think well I only use a purple pill as a as a Derogatory, you know in a derogatory sense. I know I don't I'm using that as a clinical examination of it What it is is it's guys who still want to cling to that blue pill Ideals they still want to think that, you know, they're The the things they learned when they were a five-year-old kid in disney movies Is still going to be possible for them with red pill knowledge I keep telling guys I said you need to unlearn the idea that you can Achieve blue pill goals in a red pill in a red pill paradigm. You're not going to do that with red pill awareness You know, I have no idea how To see that because like just look at a photo from rollo When you had yours from when you were in your band back in your heyday First red pill and then you go look at somebody who's drinking fine wines at 130 pounds soaking wet And you tell me like are you willing to pay money to be a man? Well fucking which archetype you're gonna pick Right, right guys one thing I wanted to hit on as we uh We'll wind on the show in a little bit here. We're still not quite there yet But a really good question just came in that I think rollo should address and the rest of us can provide some commentary as well The question was from red pill university What is so controversial about the rational mail that stifon molly knew Wouldn't allow it on a show and for some background rollo I go ahead rollo I was gonna say, of course, you're gonna put me on spot for stifon. Um, I did um, I'm happy to hop in too Like I was gonna say I I I really wish I knew um, I I I like stifon I I don't I don't think anybody would would find any, you know Any differences quite so, you know different between what I say and what he's talking about when it comes to men's issues uh, I think that like I just to Clear the air here. I did a an interview with stifon back in february and uh, I didn't The first time I ever even had any kind of contact with stifon was him You know giving me a private chat or private Message on twitter and asked me if I would come on the show. I said, yeah, sure. I'd love to Um, and so we said we set that up But I was setting it up with whoever's producer is or however the people are that he has like handling his show And so I you know right up until the moment that he came on my my computer monitor I'd never met the guy before at all. And so Uh, I'm not sure that he's even read my book all the way through But I I guess that I was somebody he wanted to get on because he wanted to get back into doing more men's issues Because he's really more political and more ideologically Focused these days than he used to be when it came to when it comes to Intersexual dynamics, so I talked with him. We talked for about an hour And I thought it was great. I mean we had a we had a really good. I thought it was really positive You know talk I mean we talked pretty much a lot about the rational male and a lot of the social stuff that was going on This was at the time when um, you know, I was getting into school shootings and how Boys were being raised as defective girls We're getting into that quite a bit like so it was actually a pretty short interview And then I never heard anything from him and I about two weeks later. I emailed his His handler whoever the producer guy is and he said well, we usually sit on these interviews until Um until they are like socially relevant or until the you know That's the hot thing to be talking about right and I'm like, okay fine. Whatever and I just sort of left it at that and The people who knew that I had had the interview with Stefan were were Saying hey, uh, where's that? Where's the interview? I really want to see that I want to see it you know how it went and I don't know. I don't know where as far as I know, they're not gonna. He's not gonna He's not gonna put produce it and I don't Really know why I didn't think there was anything all that controversial in that Well, let me add this just uh my own independent person. Yeah Well my personal opinion I don't and so a lot of people have used to fawn is like he's super red pill He's a red pill and all these things that you know every fucking topic they can think of When it comes to intersexual dynamics, I do not think he's red pill He's somewhere between purple pill and red pill, but he's not all the way there And if you look at his videos on a program and things like that, you'll see that He shames men and he'll shame them into getting married and like all these different things Yeah, he's very he's very much a trad con in the respect that he expects guys to You know, he's yeah, I was gonna say he has some very popular youtube videos of him saying, you know, well Shaming like pickup artists are saying, you know, it's because of guys like you that, you know That we're in the mess we're in and a a good example, I guess of Of what we're talking about earlier how Is all on men's to be responsible and to use their superpowers for good Now we didn't really even talk about that when we were in the In my interview with and we were talking more about social issues and men and you know men in general and social issues Uh, but I you know, we brought up hypergamy. We brought up solipsism. We brought up a few other things that I think were Uh, from my perspective, I think are pretty controversial if you look at it from a traditional conservative point of view but yeah, I mean, he's he's actually a very good example of of one of these guys who believes that um, the You know, the salvation of western culture relies in guys getting married and and sacking up and taking their responsibilities and and and a traditional, you know, old social Convention or old social contract rules and that was going that's going to save modern humanity And I'm definitely not of that same opinion. I mean, I think it's great that people get married I'm thinking hey, y'all if you can make it work fine, but the thing is is that Today it is just such a risk. I mean the half the reason we were talking about the Well, Rolo, have you got a second? The reason we talked about the the issues we got into were exactly because of The divorce industry that you know, I've worn against all the time Rolo, I wanted to ask see you said, you know, you're finally getting married and you know You hope it works out or maybe they can make it work But do you really mean marriage or do you mean family formation specifically? Oh, definitely family formation? I think that you know, I constantly get asked people say well How can you be married for as long as you have been and still be You know all the all the books I've written I've written while I was married. Okay I use a lot of my old, you know Rocks are my wife. Your wife, by the way is very proud of your work explicitly Yeah, very much. She you know, she looks up to me. She admires me and you guys have all met my wife so uh, but she's on board with that my daughter as well and I I don't think that anything that I you know get into is really anti family But it's definitely anti marriage because I think that in this day and age Uh, there's no advantage for guys getting married. There's no there's no financial You know reason there's no personal reason Um, I got married because I seem like a good idea at the time and it turned out right And I think if you are going to get married You definitely need to be red pill aware and you definitely need to be on top of you know You need to have red pill awareness internalized as part of your own personality Then I would you know, I would say okay If you're going to make the best of what is potentially a really really bad situation You at least need to be red pill and understand how it works within the marriage Okay, and if for no other reason that you need to protect your ass because like I say I constantly say women can go feral at any time They can go feral. Um, you know the the it's not that All women will will do that. It's that any women could do that so it's like The the opportunity for a woman to completely detonate the family and completely destroy That zero at zero out that guy That is always within the realm of possibility because it is always an avenue that is available to any woman at any time Now does that mean that all women are going to do that? No, I don't think that at all I think especially if you've got a good, uh, you know red pill aware Solid relationship where you're based on traditional gender or conventional gender rules um, and you have an understanding between the man and the woman and that it is Is founded on I would say, you know red pill principles great, but I would say that I would never advise and I see even to this day I still say to guys don't get married because it is absolutely 100 percent too dangerous to do so Is is too dangerous but from a family formation side of things and is too dangerous from a guy getting zeroed out side of things as well and And there's there's never You have the legal system and you have the social system that is always going to back up the woman Man will always be at fault. So I cannot possibly endorse, you know, modern marriage in in in the sense that you're talking about right now Well, that's the thing you were saying that it's like people saying well not all guns are loaded So pointed at you like no you treat them always loaded and then you block it back after you've done some tests But I just want it's the first I've heard of this Molly new thing So let me see if I understand this correctly and I'm going to phrase it in the least way possible So you talking about the red pill hypergamy stuff was too much for a guy who went on camera and talked about how race and IQ mattered Tackled the jewish question. Yeah But the guy, yeah But the guy who's like yeah women like to find the best male possible and treat you as disposable was like We can't really touch that because it might be a little edgy That may be too much. Yeah From what I I I'm just going to throw this out there because I don't know the I just to hedge my bet here I don't know the truth of this but I do know that his wife is a psychologist And I know that His wife is very involved in his His him being staphon. Okay. That's a good point. That's a good point It's very possible that my discussion with staphon was something that Uh, maybe they may be cool. I'm going to give them the benefit of that out. They both collectively decided that should not be out there on this channel Well, we're going to change that Carl, do you want to hop in? Well, I was couldn't roll a roll. It's kind of talked on the psychological and the social aspect So I thought I'd throw some economics in there because the one thing I find very interesting Is that the track con perspective? And the global multinational industrial complex Which makes me sound like a conspiracy theorist by even using that word Have some aligned interests because what we find ourselves in is kind of like a government created catch 22 because Women in the workplace that created a situation where you double the labor force overnight At the same time You kind of screwed up the long-term birth rate because a woman who's in school until she's 25 And then once it's been three to five years in the workforce before getting married has a really short fertility window Like most women if you go back a generation or two started having children at 20 Now women start having children at 30 If that continues We will have to in vitro fertilize women at 40 in the next generation and that will mean one At most two kids per woman My grandmother had my uncle at 16 years old and I was like totally normal back then I went on to have more children after that. I should also like put a caveat on that last bit there I I do think that you know family generation is is important. I do think that a Some sort of pair bonding obviously that's been really good for the human species for a very very long time One saying is an modern marriage today is far too dangerous for men to get involved in That's not to say that there are no advantages to You know from a from a social scale perspective that they're You know, it's it's good that we have family formation. I think so and I think that that if Because it's so good. I think that should emphasize the danger of The the society the feminine primary society that we're in right now With just the fact that we are it's very People want to say well, if I'm saying don't get married, right? I'm seeing that from a practical pragmatic perspective But when women Are saying don't get married when feminists are saying it's slavery when feminists have have made their case against Against marriage it is with the direct Um the direct purpose of destroying the family union destroying really I mean what what has western society been built on it's built on a family unit It's been on you know that granted hypergamy works its way in there and finds ways around that you know monogamy, but I'm not saying that the family unit. I'm not saying that you know marriage Can't be a good thing it can be I'm just saying under the present circumstances that it is today It is not and I think that since the sexual revolution um Feminism has done its damnedest to make sure that It has destroyed the family unit Now you we can go and we could talk about Marxism and all you know socialism and all the you know the rock of philip Yeah, you recommended a great book to me. We're a little bit of a week Um, what was the name of it that book you sent me? It was awesome. I read through it very quickly Which one I was on twitter Yeah, it was I didn't read the title because I just burned through the book like literally the minute I bought it Um the one on feminism its relation to marxism Um, I must pass that on I can't I can't remember. Oh man. I'm gonna find it real quick. It was fucking good Yeah, there's very uh, I mean there's a lot that has been written about the socialist and marxist Influences in I mean people want to say it's third wave feminism But it's really been part of feminism for you know a whole lot longer than than you know marxism has been around but it's it's uh, uh, there's a there's a school of thought that says that feminism is a Social engineering experiment to destabilize Western civilization because what do you do you go and you disempower men you disempower? That's why that's why the patriarchy is such a big thing to to feminism because if you can destroy that You destroy the family unit and I think that we are at a point right now in western culture where We are seeing the results of that destruction. That's why you got a guy like terry That's why that's why you have terry cruise way too late That's why terry cruise is he sounds very rational saying that masculinity is a cult. Why why does it sound right? because We've been trained for the last, you know 50 plus years to think that Patriarchy is is bad masculinity is toxic masculinity is hyper masculinity is a cult I mean, is that the next thing we're gonna talk about where it's it It's not so much about the empowerment of women as it is the disempowerment of men Which is why we see them trying to remove men from language We've tried to see them remove from even just public discourse just having the 21 convention Is is something that just just men getting together. I mean just us four here. I mean once a week that is threatening That's threatening to the the feminine imperative Here's like here. They keep taking away anthony's monetization. I'm like Jesus man. Like is it my drinking or swear? It lasted not it lasted one day. We have monetization and then they immediately cut it off. So All right, I got better friends. I don't know. That's why I switched to bourbon. So it would be like pro america. That's mega Eventually we'll switch to our own platforms guys. We're gonna expand. I want to actually mention that for future shows We're going to I some announcements to make before we end the show Uh, the next time we host this should be about two weeks from now on saturday at 1 p.m There's like the shows going on every saturday at 1 p.m Eastern time and we're going to start multi-streaming it to multiple platforms off youtube So we'll do this youtube channel. Maybe richards at the same time Entrepreneurs of cars and then twitter or facebook and even more like gabby on that So in the future you guys can actually watch it live not just on youtube but other platforms too Cool, we're also going to get call ins. I'm gonna work on that. Uh, that might not be in the next show But it's definitely coming soon. That'll be live call ins. You guys can actually call in and get your voice on the air And we'll have more guests obviously over time. Uh, I'm really glad rillo invited uh pat on pat on today. That was awesome Yeah, thanks I just want to make a quick announcement here is I think uh, we're looking for um I think new guests as well. I I'd like to keep mixing up the The I just always have to be me on here may it can be you guys and somebody else are gonna be, you know Rich and whoever I we're trying to mix up sort of the the the lineup. I mean, I'm glad it's you know me you and ryan and everybody but I I really want you know as this has developed into the show that it is right now I I really want to be able to uh present A lot of different aspects of the red pill. I mean, I just did a an interview with aj cortez. I would very much like to bring him on Oh, yeah, yeah, he's a speaker here too. Yeah, there's a lot of reason. I mean, I picked this name Yeah, we've had we've had goldman on before I read we're very much like to get uh, christian mcqueen There's a lot of guys that I'm in contact with or who are either my readers or I read them that I very much like to get them Involved in just, you know, I'm doing something like this and talking about particular, you know, to subjects and all that But yeah, I'm another guy that I'm I'm debating right now. I ran this by you and I'll just make a public announcement I'm I'm I'm very much like to get tristan tate on here. I don't know what you guys But I really really want to get tristan on here a lot I'm excited I know and ryan's laughing because that is going to set off so Many blue pill But hurt guys on let's do it more than donovan sharp Donovan really Donovan's great. Donovan's great. All right, nothing. Nothing trade tristan tate is like what tucker max would be if he wasn't an asshole But like in a I mean asshole in the sense that now he's like a bitch I think he would provide a very unique perspective Double it up with him and christian christian mcqueen there I would very much like to do that I would I would like to do an all game show at some point where we're just doing I mean, we've done it before really but we you know, we had goldman We had goldman I really like to sort of have them go at it for the state of modern pick up My guys keep talking. I cannot hear you just one second. Well, we're still live. We're still going I think it should be all right I still like that man 21 convention when I met christian. I remember just sitting there I'm like, look, I'm going to listen as long as you're willing to run your mouth and that was all I needed He went off for like an hour and a half And I think that this I think this this you know collection of guys has a a lot of potential with regard to You know sort of defining what the what the red pill is from a intersexual dynamic. Oh, I got audio Shit sort of Oh, yeah, you're totally right because they just look at it. I got a You guys talking shit. You guys hear me. Yeah Clearly You're very you're very very good. Here's the end, right? Yeah, I would I would really like to get I'd really like to get some some call ins here so that we can have people, you know, voice or opinion You know, I've always been about A free discord. I mean if you look if you go to my if you go to my site, it's all I've always had an Unmoderated blog. I'm all you know, I came from a for and I came from the so-so form And it's always been you know a back and forth and I'm really like we we could take questions here But it's so much better if we can just get you know people live and talking on this. I really what's all it is Yeah, it's guys swapping notes guys are supposed to talk to show this the whole point the whole thing We've been prevented like shut down of doing is just sitting around with other guys and Talk and talk. All right. It's such a simple but such a profound thing Guys, uh, let's run down to or wind down for today. It's been about two hours. I'm also out of audio for now Gentlemen, thanks for hopping on the show. Rollo Ryan Carl. Appreciate it very much and pat earlier Everyone watching live. Make sure you click the full video description underneath this video You're actually going to see all the links these to the guests today. I'll put pats in there too now Make sure you visit their sites buy their books support them wherever they have stuff going on Very much appreciated those of you dropped in super chats the 21 studios very much appreciated I'll see you guys in two weeks at 1 p.m. Eastern on saturday Also, tune in live next saturday and it should be on richie cooper's channel at youtube.com slash entrepreneurs and cars Yeah, thanks guys internet and don't forget that next week. We'll be uh, we'll be with rich. So yeah, exactly I'll put a link in my tube of that Thanks tuning in guys. We're gonna hop off the uh live stream