 The next item of business is debate on motion 1, 2, 3, 4, in the name of Jamie Hepburn on a fairer Scotland for disabled people tackling the employment gap. May I ask those who wish to speak in the debate to press the request to speak buttons? I call on Jamie Hepburn to speak to and move the motion around 13 minutes, please, minister. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer, and let me move the motion in my name. Presiding Officer, on 30 April, the Government held our Congress on Disability Employment in the Workplace at the Marriott Hotel in Glasgow. It was a great day. It was attended by over 150 people with employers from the private public and third sectors, as well as disabled people, representative bodies and service providers. All of the attendees were there because they are passionate about doing more to help disabled people across Scotland to fulfil their potential in the labour market. A passion shared by the Scottish Government. I was privileged to be in attendance to take part in today's proceedings. I had a chance to recognise the efforts that have been made, but to understand the nature of the challenges that are faced by disabled people seeking to get into the labour market. Those challenges are laid bare by the reality before us. It figures out today that the gap between the employment rate for disabled and non-disabled people stands at 35.8 per cent. That figure is an improvement on the 2016 figure of 37.4 per cent cited in my motion, but make no mistake, that figure is unacceptable. It represents nothing less than a social and economic injustice—an injustice that we must tackle, of course. Jamie Balfour I am grateful to the minister for that. Why do you think that the number has got worse in the last 10 years? 10 years ago, the number was better than it is today. Is there something going on with society, or do you think that there are other reasons why the figures are getting worse? Although accepting it was better than two years ago, historically it is getting worse? I apologise to Mr Balfour. I think that there will be a multitude of reasons. The point that Mr Balfour has hit on is that he has talked about 10 years ago. Of course, 10 years ago, we hit that significant economic downturn that we have come through and that we see that the figures are still far too wide and are only beginning to improve, albeit marginally, in the last year or so. There will be a multitude of reasons. Of course, that is our responsibility now to truly understand them. A lot of that will be attitudinal, a lot of it will be institutional, and those are the issues that we must tackle to overcome the disability employment gap. We have, of course, as a Government set a target of reducing the disability employment gap by more than half. At the congress that I referred to earlier, the First Minister made a number of key announcements, the launch of a consultation on public sector disability employment targets, funding of up to £1 million to support businesses to recruit and retain disabled people, and that later this year we will publish a cross-government disability employment plan, which will set out how we will go about increasing disability employment rates. If the congress was not the start of this journey, when we published a fairer Scotland for disabled people in December 2016, as well as setting out the ambition to more than half the disability employment gap, we set out a range of commitments to support disabled people in the labour market. Those commitments are under way. The implementation of fairer start Scotland, the devolved employment service that started last month, is aimed at helping large numbers of disabled people into employment. In the media campaign that we ran last summer, directed at small and medium-sized businesses, aimed to raise awareness with groups that we know we need to reach to make a difference. Some, such as the internship programmes under way, are aimed at changing the culture of those organisations that are participating, as well as developing the employability skills of those involved. It is that culture change that we need to address, as a priority not just across Government but across Scotland. That is not just about employment support services, it is not just about the Scottish Government's actions. That needs an all-Scotland approach. Nothing short of a fundamental shift in how we as a nation approach this will result in the change that we want to achieve. I am clear that the Scottish Government has a leadership role, but that must be a cross-societal effort if we are to succeed. People do not live their lives in different compartments. Where we are born, the education and parenting that we receive, our experiences as adults all come together to inform how our lives will progress. In order to address our long-term ambition to ensure that disabled people have access to the same opportunities as everyone else, we also have to address the barriers in all parts of society that we can unwittingly create or have developed over time. Across the Scottish Government change is happening. In key areas such as health, all levels of education and transport through procurement and our work towards inclusive economic growth and fair work, we have the foundations in place to change the lives of disabled people across Scotland. At looking at health and taking mental health as a specific example, we have put in place a 10-year strategy to improve access to mental health services backed by an additional £150 million over five years. Helping workplaces to that will be an important part of this work. This morning at the diversity conference for Scotland Health and Glasgow, I was very pleased to announce the successful bids to the first round of the workplace equality fund. Crucially, across the range of projects, too, we will focus on improving understanding and support for mental health in the workplace. Developing new approaches for employers to work with their staff and better support them is key to our work. I hope that the learning for the projects that we are funding can be implemented across employers in all sectors. More generally, bringing employability services together with health services is a long-held ambition of this Government. We know fair work can improve health and wellbeing, but we must also enable people in work to access the help that they need quickly should they be at risk of losing their jobs. The single health and employment gateway pilot to which we are jointly funding with the DWP, which we will run in Fife and Dundee from this summer, is an example of the type of joined-up health and employment support service that we believe will help many disabled people to retain employment or to move quickly into work should they lose their job. We are working closely with colleagues in the two local authorities, the third sector and Job Centre Plus, very much the sort of co-operative and joined-up delivery model that I want to see more of and that I believe is essential. Looking at education, our focus on excellence and equity in education, including through the developing young workforce strategy, is improving how we prepare young people for learning, life and work. We are working with employers to improve the range and quality of work-related learning opportunities that are available to all young people, including those with disabilities. The network of 21 employer-led developing young workforce regional groups has an important role to play in that. We can harness that focus to help more disabled young people to make successful transitions through learning and into the world of work. Of course, the availability of a job may mean nothing of you. You cannot get there. We know that accessible transport is a key neighbour to ensure that disabled people can access and sustain meaningful employment. Without it, many disabled people quite simply cannot get out their front door. The Scottish Government's accessible transport framework can help us towards that. There is more to be done, but, again, we have the strategy in place that can support improvement. Looking at how we buy goods and products, we know that procurement is one of our most powerful tools in helping us to shape and deliver our ambitions for an inclusive society, one where the benefits of economic prosperity are properly shared. We are making progress here, for example, with the award of a fair start to Scotland contract to a supported business, through specifically reserving the west contract package area specifically for supported businesses. As with all other areas, we cannot afford to stand still and we will not stand still. We must build on our existing work to support employers to achieve our ambitions for inclusive growth and fair work. Evidence shows that diverse workforces are more creative and innovative. In the current climate, with Brexit just around the corner, it is vital that we take the opportunity to tap into a wider range of skills and experience. Employers in all sectors are fundamental to our ambition. Following the First Minister's announcement of up to £1 million towards business and support funding, we will work in the coming weeks and months to understand better what support is required to help employers to recruit and crucially retain disabled people and help them to progress their careers. With that, we will be able to build the type of support and advice service that fully meets their needs and those of disabled staff. All businesses are important to us, but not least those businesses across Scotland and social enterprises employ many disabled people. We know that some of Scotland's supported businesses who receive funding from the UK Government through the protected places funding arrangements are deeply concerned about the shift away from the present funding model to one supported through DWP's access to workscape. I share those concerns. I have pressed the DWP many times now for clarity on the financial impact that it will have on those businesses. Paul Wheelhouse, Minister for Business, Innovation and Energy, has done likewise. Unfortunately, we still await any specific clarity from the UK Government on their intentions. The British Association for Supported Employment has made a representation to the Scottish Government to set up a group to seek a Scottish resolution to this matter. I can announce today that Paul Wheelhouse and I have agreed that a working group will be set up to look at the impact of the UK Government's changes and consider what support may be required for those organisations across Scotland, whose ethos is to recruit a high proportion of disabled people in their workforce. That group will be set up imminently and will include representatives from supported businesses, social firms, trade unions and other expert voices. If, Presiding Officer, across the Scottish Government, there is support for a Scotland where everyone can flourish, to achieve the ambition of more than having the disability employment gap, all areas of government must come together to address the challenge. In the coming months, that is what will happen. As we develop the disability employment action plan announced by the First Minister at last month's congress, we will not just develop a series of actions in different Government portfolios. We will have a truly cross-government plan that not only sees services coming together to support each other's priorities, but which ultimately helps many more disabled people to fulfil their potential. Elaine Smith I thank the minister for taking that intervention on that point. I just want you to agree with me that we also need to consider that, even for those in work, there can be relatively high levels of poverty. For example, Joseph Rowntree's foundation found that among households in working poverty, three in 10 contained a family member with a disability. That is an important point, too, that we should consider across portfolios. Jamie Hepburn I recognise that in work poverty there is a specific concern to the Government through the fair work agenda that we are taking forward at something that we are determined to tackle, but I recognise the point that Elaine Smith is making. As we develop that cross-government plan, we will also send it a call to action across Scotland. That is not just a task for the Scottish Government, but one for us all, to work together to achieve no more or less than a transformation in the lives of disabled people across Scotland—a change in which everyone recognises the value, skills and talent that disabled people bring to the workplace—a Scotland where all people can feel valued and supported to fulfil their work, career and life ambitions. We have set ourselves on course to complete a significant task to drastically reduce the disability employment gap by more than half. That is a course that I am determined that we will run, and that is a race that I am determined that we will win. I call Jamie Halcro Johnston to speak to and move amendment 1, 2, 3, 4, 4.1. Eight minutes, please. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. The employment gap between people with disabilities and those without disabilities remains significant and substantial. Fewer than half of the people with disabilities are in employment compared to well over 80 per cent of those without disabilities. While change has been coming, it has been slow, and the gap remains stubborn. As overall employment has grown, increases in disabled people in work have not been quick enough to close the gap with the wider labour market. Alongside countries such as Germany, Belgium, Ireland and Denmark, the UK still has a disability employment gap that is above the EU average. In Scotland, that is even more pressing. If that all sounds like a bleak assessment, there are some positives to be found. In the past four years, more than 600,000 people with disabilities across the UK have entered the workforce. I mention this particularly given that the UK Government has a clear commitment to one million more people with disabilities entering employment in the next decade. That undoubtedly remains a complex problem, and there are a number of areas where government action will help to make a real difference. First and perhaps most importantly, the views of people with disabilities themselves, as well as disability organisations and charities, must be paramount in this debate. We have repeatedly heard that disabled people who are able to work want to work, and they want to be given support where it is needed to be included in the economy. Because the impact of long-term unemployment is just as keenly felt amongst people with disabilities as it is amongst others, we know all too well the associations with long-term unemployment, poor health outcomes, social isolation, increasing barriers to re-entring the workforce and reduced self-confidence. There is a litany of negatives that go beyond the economic factors. There has been a cross-generational squandering of human potential that we have only recently started to address. We must ask ourselves seriously how many people have been unable to break through the barriers that exist in joining the workforce, how many people who could have excelled in their chosen field have been held back, and this must end. Fortunately, there has been a real shift in attitudes. I will, yes. Gillian Martin Just to hear what the member said about access to people with disabilities who want to work, would you agree with me that that work should always be fair work and would you join us in calling for people to adopt the real living wage for people who are entering work, whether they are disabled or not? Jamie Halcro Johnston As the point that I have just made, the UK Government has made a real contribution so far in the past four years of bringing 600,000 people in. In terms of looking at the living wage, there have obviously been increases there, and I think that a huge amount of progress has already been made, and I'm sure that it will continue to be made. Fortunately, there has been a real shift in attitudes towards disabled people in the workplace in our lifetimes. It was only in 1995 that Disability Discrimination Act was brought in, and I'm proud to say by a Conservative Government. This was a landmark change in our law and a piece of legislation that set an example to follow internationally. More recently, issues around disability and employment have crossed the tiers of government in the UK. Following the Smith commission, the Scotland Act in 2016, it has devolved new powers to the chamber. While areas such as access to work programme and the job centre support are reserved, it is clear that both sides must interact to be successful. We are still in a transitional phase, but I welcome the work that has taken place to build the newly devolved employability programmes. It will be some time before the effectiveness can be measured. In the fairer Scotland action plan on disability, there is a recognition of some of the work, the other work that has taken place so far. Policies such as self-directed support, which has gained approval from all sides in this chamber, are a step forward in how disabled people access support and public services more widely. I mention this because we in this change should be especially aware that the devolved aspect goes deeper than some of the powers that we have recently come to this Parliament. If we look at official statistics on the types of disability and how they interact with employment, then there are some perhaps unexpected conclusions to draw. In many cases, physical disability is linked with a higher employment level than other types of disability. Depression and anxiety problems have a particularly poor interaction with employment levels. At the very bottom of the conditions analysed for employment by the DWP are severe or specific learning difficulties where employment rate is under a quarter. Sitting slightly above that at just over 25 per cent is the category of mental illness, phobia, panics or other nervous disorders. It was good to hear the minister talk about mental health as it is clear to me at least that we have a great deal more to do in terms of tackling mental health in the workplace and also improving outcomes for people living with learning difficulties. Mental health has often been mentioned in this chamber but it is apparent that mental health and its interaction with the labour market is still poorly understood and remains under supported. We know in the NHS that waiting times can be intolerably lengthy but just as significantly there is a limited support for people facing mental health issues in most workplaces until they reach crisis point and too often end up outside of the workforce even if only temporarily. In terms of people with learning difficulties, we must be asking what sort of support is available to support young people emerging from compulsory education to enter the workplace, to what degree is careers advice tailored to fit their needs, to what extent are additional support for learning teachers equipped to support young people into work in addition to the multitude of other demands on their times and their skills. How can that possibly be squared with a continuing drop in the number of specialist ASN teachers in our schools? This is a process that has continued for several years, while the number of school pupils identified as having additional support needs has grown significantly. In our schools there remains a problem with disability of all types. When we debated this subject on the 60th of May last year, my colleague Adam Tonkin has quoted Bill Scott of Inclusion Scotland in his evidence to the Social Security Committee. To refresh the Parliament's memory, Mr Scott told us that there are disabled children with sensory impairments and physical impairments, but no intellectual impairment, whatsoever, who are leaving school with no qualifications. That makes their chances nil in the current job market. Unless we change that, we will not change their future. Whatever changes we can make now, it is clear that we have failed many pupils as they have made their way through the education system. I have previously called for a lifelong approach to skills and for people with disabilities especially, this is vitally important to correct historic wrongs. In all that we do, there must be the impetus to build personalised public services that can cater the needs of people with disabilities, allow them to access opportunities and pursue their own chosen path in life. Employers are also a key to driving the change. The disability-confident campaign now involves 6,000 employers across the United Kingdom working to improve their approach to disability. That includes over 60 organisations here in Edinburgh, as well as a good number in my region across the public and private sectors. We know that remote communities can have particular problems when we discuss labour markets, not to mention the issues that are faced by the predominantly smaller businesses that populate the Highlands and Islands. All layers of government and their agencies have a role to play. I welcome the recent consultation on disabled employment in the public sector, mentioned in my amendment. In his introduction, the minister writes that only one in nine employees in Scotland's public sector are disabled against almost one-fifth of the working-age population. That is unacceptable, and we will be looking closely at the proposals that the Scottish Government brings forward to address that. This debate often strays beyond employability. It is, at least in part, one about the culture of delivering public services, about problems that can arise long before people enter the labour market, and how healthcare and work interact. We must create a society where the skills and abilities of people with disabilities are realised by our education system, by employers and by the state. A society where a young disabled person can look forward with confidence to the prospect of obtaining skills or finding a job and not the fear that their ambitions will be thwarted. To do that, we need deeper and faster change than we have already seen. I move the amendment in my name. I call Rhoda Grant to speak to you and move amendment 1, 2, 3, 4, 4.27, please. We all want to work. It is part of us that makes us who we are, and it helps us to define ourselves. We all need a purpose, a way to contribute to society, and a way to enable us to be independent and self-reliant. That is why work is so important. There are one million people in Scotland with disabilities, but only 42 per cent of them are employed. You can only imagine the frustration of the other 58 per cent. The Government's motion is worthwhile. There is nothing in it that we cannot support, but we need to go further. We cannot simply hope to close the employment gap for disabled people through wishful thinking because it will not happen on its own. The only way that it will happen is if we make it happen. We need to take action to make it happen. We need to set targets and to monitor that action if we are to achieve them. Our amendment calls for targets and progress reports to Parliament. If we do that, we can ensure that progress is being made and that we can concentrate minds on what needs to happen. I do not want to hear a debate in this Parliament in 10 years' time still making the same points as we are making today. We also want the UK as a whole to do better by disabled people. To be picked out for criticism by the UN is simply not good enough. We need to be leading on this issue. The UN said that the Conservative Government had committed grave systematic violations of the rights of persons with disabilities. That was partly due to the closure of the employ factories. We need more of those placements, not less. There are many hurdles for disabled people that they have to overcome to find work and discrimination and false perceptions are part of that. Sometimes it seems that it is just too hard for employers to go that extra mile to remove the barriers that society puts in place to make life harder for people with disabilities. Why pay to fit a ramp when you can employ someone who just does not need it? Why take time to make adaptations to a workstation when you can just employ someone who does not need them? Why put in additional support systems when you can employ someone who does not need it? Those attitudes mean that we all lose out. We often do not expand our knowledge of the challenges that are faced and we miss out in enriching our own lives with their experience. That also stops disabled people from being able to contribute to society and to live fulfilling lives. I was fortunate to be one of the first MSPs to take part in the Inclusion Scotland parliamentary internship programme. That pays for interns and places them with MSPs to gain work experience. I had the pleasure of having Ryan McMullen as my intern, and some of you may have met him. You certainly wouldn't have forgotten him if you had. He had cerebral palsy and that made his speech difficult to understand. He was absolutely undaunted and was a real asset to our office. However, I know that I learned more than he did from that internship. Initially, we had to find adaptations and look at technology to allow him to do things like answer the phone. I then became aware of people who did not know him who were sometimes very awkward around him. That was very obvious to him. Working with someone with a disability taught me that you simply need to take the time to find out how to work alongside them. If you do that, we all benefit. The trouble with fear of the unknown is that it can lead to discrimination. That discrimination leads to further discrimination. The best way to overcome the fear of the unknown is to make it known. The best way to show that disabled people can carry out everyday jobs is to give them that opportunity. It will only be when we all know disabled people in the workplace and educate ourselves that any fear and with it the discrimination will reduce. To do that, we need positive discrimination. We have the powers and the ability to make change. The public sector is a huge employer and we need to take positive action to ensure that we employ disabled people in at least the proportion that they are in our communities. We could do that by ensuring that qualified disabled people are guaranteed an interview for a job, that we set targets for levels of employment and the like. That is even more important for those with learning disabilities. There are many fantastic organisations in our communities that offer work training. That supports people with learning disabilities to learn those jobs at their own speed and in their own time, and they can do them as well as anybody else. There are organisations such as the Shirley Project and Artisans in Burness in my region, but there are many more and many who have sent us briefings ahead of this debate who take time to do that in their own communities. Last week I met Apex Scotland in the Highlands, who have traditionally provided services to get offenders back to work. They discovered that most of those they were dealing with had drug and alcohol problems, and that is what had got them into trouble in the first place. Those addictions came from them having poor mental health. They started working with people before they offended. People with drug and alcohol problems or people whose mental health was poor and by working with them they have ensured that they do not end up in the criminal justice system, but they find another way to deal with their problems. They help them to get employment and thereby build satisfying and stabilised for themselves. Those organisations work intensively with people. That takes time and it takes money, but the reward more than makes up for it. Not only the personal reward for the individual but the reward of a good staff member for a business and the economic reward of allowing people to contribute their expertise to society as a whole. Disability Agenda Scotland and its report in The Gap urged the public sector to take the lead through its own employment practice, but also by using procurement policies to ensure that we only contract with businesses who have disabled-friendly employment practices. It pointed out that disabled people are more likely to be lower paid and underemployed as well. When you take into account that the cost to a disabled person on average is an additional £550 a month is simply to live, that is even worse. We cannot just focus on getting more disabled people into the workforce. We must also make sure that we support them when we get them there. The report found that a huge 74 per cent of disabled people in work felt at risk of losing their job. We have to make a step change on how we deal with people with disabilities. We have to acknowledge that there are many barriers to face that have been put up by society that does not understand and has largely ignored their needs. We must break down those barriers and allow them to gain employment and have the same career chances as the rest of us. We all want to live in an equal society and that is one way that we can do it. I move amendment 1. I very much welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate and I welcome to the Government's ambition to halve the disability employment gap. There is consensus across the chamber that the fact that disabled people in Scotland are almost half as likely to be in employment than non-disabled people is not acceptable. Devolution has allowed us to build a much fairer Scotland in many ways, but there is much more to be done to ensure that our economy and society are inclusive of everyone. Disabled people have been on the receiving end of an extraordinary onslaught of welfare reforms in recent years. Those have, as Rhoda Grant's motion notes, systematically violated the rights of disabled people. In particular, their right to work is being violated by reforms, which make it more difficult to find and keep employment. As of April last year, new claimants of the employment support allowance, work-related activity component, will get £30 less a week than they would have previously. That is around £15,000 a year less. People in that position will get the same as standard jobseekers allowance or the universal credit equivalent. The rationale for this is that the additional money acted as a disincentive to work, but that argument fails to recognise that a disabled person faces more barriers to work and is likely to be unemployed for longer than someone who is unemployed with no other barriers. Indeed, the cut was based on a 2005 OECD study that benefit cuts create a work incentive, despite that research not being focused on disabled people. The Having the Gap report from former Paralympic athlete Tani Gray-Thomson commissioned to investigate the impact of the cut on the aim of having the disability employment gap found. There is no relevant research setting out a convincing case that the £30 a week employment support allowance work-related activity group payment acts as a financial disincentive to claimants moving towards work. The proposed reduction in the financial support to this group is likely to move them further away from the labour market rather than closer. That is not evidence-based policymaking. Disabled people have been hit disproportionately by the cruel system of benefit sanctions. Just today, the results of a five-year study into benefit conditionality have been published. The research conducted by six universities, including Glasgow and Harriet Walk, concluded that benefit sanctions have no tangible positive effects in moving disabled people closer to work. They routinely trigger profoundly negative personal financial and health impacts that are likely to move disabled people further away from the paid labour market. I am proud that Greens led the way in ensuring that sanctions have no place on devolved employment programmes, but there is a long way to go until we have a system of benefits based on supporting people into work and not bullying them. On the issue of employment programmes to help disabled people into work, the Scottish Government has made a promising start to its credit. It has sought to plug the huge gap in funding that was created by the UK Government just before the employment programmes were devolved. However, I have some queries about the support offered to disabled people as part of the new fair start Scotland scheme that the minister may be able to offer assurances on when he closes the debate. According to the Scottish Union of Supported Employment, the fair start provider guidance says that eligibility will depend on whether the individual is ready for work within 12 months or 18 months for people requiring more support. Therefore, I would be grateful if the minister could outline what support is on offer for disabled individuals who wish to return to work but whose journey back into employment might be longer than 12 to 18 months. It would also be useful if the minister could clarify the role of individual placement and support within fair start Scotland. IPS is a voluntary approach that places people into jobs quickly and then provides support to both the person and the employer. There is a lot of evidence that suggests that this is a really effective type of employment support for people with additional barriers to employment. Jamie Hepburn is absolutely reassuring her on the latter. Of course, it is a contractual commitment from every provider that they must provide the IPS model. In terms of her first point, the support employment model is also embedded in there. Of course, the programme is deliberately designed on the basis that a person can be supported over 12 to 18 months, but there will be other support out there for those whose journey takes longer. I thank the minister for his response. He will be aware, however, that Sam H, withdrew from the West Fair Start Scotland contract in March, citing concerns about whether the funding model can ever properly support IPS, with the organisation's chief executive saying that we cannot see how it is possible for any organisation to deliver IPS properly within the funding structure that currently exists for fair start Scotland. Disability Agenda 2 has also expressed concerns that there is little detail on how IPS will be offered or accredited by fair start providers. As Jamie Halcro Johnston mentions in his amendment, people with learning difficulties face particular barriers to employment. The UK Work Choice programme supported far fewer such individuals than previous employment programmes, and I welcome the minister's assurance that Fair Start Scotland will be fully supporting people with learning difficulties. As much as work can be a positive force in our lives, many Scots work in jobs that do not promote healthy working practices or an appropriate work-life balance, so we are faced with a significantly increasing number of people who leave work for health reasons, particularly poor mental health. I question whether the disability plan properly takes into account the broader economic transformation Scotland needs for all Scots, both disabled and non-disabled people. In concluding, we are agreed that disabled people face a huge number of barriers to work, discrimination, workplaces and work practices that are exclusionary, and a UK benefits system that, while saying all the time that is trying to help disabled people into work, is, in fact, making it even harder. I very much welcome the Scottish Government's ambition to halff the disability employment gap, but that ambition must and I hope will be matched with radical action. Alex Cole-Hamilton, six minutes please. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I start by echoing thanks to the Scottish Government for securing time for this important issue today and for the Opposition of Amendments, which we will be supporting in full. Given that nearly 60 per cent of working-age Scots who have a disability are out of work, the ambition to close that employment gap is vital, but we are somewhat swimming against the tide, given that those who are in work are in professions that are known to be in decline, so we have our work cut out. Taken in isolation as a comparator, we would have the third highest of EU member states in terms of the employability employment gap, and that matters. It matters for three key reasons. It matters because unemployment reduces the orbit of your social university, reduces the social connectivity that you have, it matters because it reduces your financial independence and it matters very much because it reduces your feelings of self-worth and thereby your physical and mental health can deteriorate also. We absolutely support the Government's motion and its efforts in this. This is an area that should be devoid of party politics, and we have a social and a moral imperative as a Parliament to do better than we have been doing. I absolutely support the ambition to develop an action plan, to set targets, to reduce stigma, to improve accessibility in the workplace environment. I also want to adopt a word that has been fostered by inclusion, which is around the idea of employer ability. We all know about employer ability for people with disabilities, but we need to equip employers to be better able to serve them once they come on to the payroll. That is all too often forgotten about, and I think that the £1 million grant or award that is being made by the Scottish Government will be going some way to addressing that. Let's begin, though. Let's recognise, though, that disadvantage for people with disabilities starts right out of the traps in terms of primary school around the expectations that our young people with disabilities are fostered to have in terms of what they can expect out of life and the careers that they can progress into. That will impact on where they are streamed, and the groups that they are put in. Accessibility in school is still not 100 per cent. We are still having physical barriers to learning for people with disabilities in our classrooms. Social exclusion comes with that as well. People with children with disabilities are far less to have the social networks that their able-bodied counterparts are likely to have and, with that, the lifelong links that can benefit people throughout their careers. That continues at university. At this point, I reference the work of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, which I am vice convener. As part of our budget scrutiny last year, we are very interested in the efforts of the higher education sector to make learning accessible to students with disabilities, and we are very struck to learn that, for example, in terms of BSL, British Sign Language, there is only one university in the whole of the United Kingdom that is accredited as a BSL-friendly learning experience, and that is Lancaster. We need to ensure that our tertiary education institutions learn the lessons of that institution. Obviously, all of those social mobility is very much affected by the learning that you have under your belt before you attempt to enter the workplace. We can set targets, and that is important, but we need to stand those up with meaningful action if they are missed. I think that I may be one of the only people in this room who had the misfortune to read all 32 single outcome agreements when they were first launched in 2009. That was part of my job at the time, but I was always struck in terms of measuring progress for people with disability going into employment. One of the largest local authorities in Scotland set the lofty ambition of getting 200 young people between the ages of 16 and 21 with a disability into the workplace by the following year. The following year came, they reported on that, and that 200 target was missed by 189. They only got 11 people into work as a result of that, but nothing happened. Nothing happened. They did not lose any funding, they did not face any sanction and they did not attempt to redress that with the following year's single outcome agreement. Targets matter, but we have to stand them up with accountability and with action. We also talked about the language of stigma. We talked about stigma in almost every debate around the equality agenda in this chamber, and that is absolutely right. Sam H has been referenced in the last contribution, published a report that said that 40 per cent of employers would not employ somebody if they had a mental health issue of any kind. That is the nexus of where we have to take this debate and recognise the mountain that we have to climb ahead of us. We also recognise that, once people are in work with disabilities, they still face barriers. There is a disability pay gap that exists. Inclusion Scotland again revealed that that can be as much as £1.20 an hour compared to able-bodied counterparts. We recently passed the gender representation on public boards act. I am very proud to have been part of that. I am glad that that achieved unanimous support. However, we need to be sure that our boards look more like the society in which they operate, not just for gender but for equalities issues such as disability. When the strategic management of an organisation looks like a society, if it is rights-literate, accessibility-literate, then only then will the organisation or the company around it be so as well. I want to finish with the words of Helen Keller, who is probably known to everybody in this chamber. She said, I am conscious of a soul sense that lifts me above the narrow cramping circumstances of my life. My world lies upward. People with disability are capable of ambition like any of us. It is only the physical limitations of the environment around them and the attitudes of those who might otherwise employ them, which stand in their way. We have the ability to change both in this chamber. We now move to the open debate. It is speeches of five minutes, please. I call Ruth Maguire to be followed by Jeremy Balfour. When we talk about the employment gap, we tend to focus on what we perceive to be the employability issues of individuals with disabilities. How should they change? What more do they need to learn? What extra support can be provided? Although employability programmes are crucial for some of our citizens furthest away from work, if we are serious about having the disability employment gap and bringing an additional 120,000 disabled people into the workforce and retaining those who are currently in work, we have to acknowledge that a large part of the problem is societal. The poverty alliance has highlighted findings from its community engagement that almost all participants reported that the biggest challenge to disabled people's employment was perceptions and myths. The myth that disabled people are generally less productive, the myth that they are more likely to have time off sick, the myth that they are likely to be a health and safety hazard at work and the myth that they are expected not to stay in a job long term. Of course, some disabled people will not be able to work to do certain kinds of work or to work for long periods, but many more are ready and willing. For those folk, it is not about the individual's lack of skills at education. It is not about someone's inability to manage a condition or their lack of confidence or motivation. It is about stigma, poor attitudes, discriminatory cultures, policies and processes. We need to address those barriers in the path of disabled people. We need to address employers failing to make reasonable adjustments to workplaces because of fear of costs or lack of awareness. We need to address discriminatory policies and practices and assumptions about what a person can and cannot do. Those barriers are a product of other people's attitudes, not about the disabled person, but a reflection on our society. We have to change the way that our society thinks about disability and employment. We have to do that because it is the right thing to do in terms of equality and fairness, but it is also the right thing to do, because if we do not, we will miss out on talent, diversity and richness. That is good for no one. It is no good for individuals, organisations or society. To mark international disabled people's day, Inclusion Scotland launched My Work Story, a social media campaign to encourage disabled people to get talking about being disabled at work, what helps them to feel comfortable and confident and what gets in the way. They started a conversation about everyday experiences in the workplace and what employers can do to make it easy for disabled people to be themselves and ask for and get the adjustments that they need. Jay, who took part, said, I have been working for many years now in different industries and the reactions are always the same. Oh no, you poor deer. What have you done? Ouch! I did not think that he would be able to do that, et cetera. A lot of well-meaning have had ignorant comments about how they didn't notice that I was disabled straight away and how brave I am for still working. Ethan also spoke to the challenges he faced and I quote, There was help when I transitioned from walking to using my wheelchair, but in terms of being flexible around hours and workplace assessments, I didn't access these things and didn't know what I could ask for. There was certainly no one that took on the responsibility of telling me about these things. There isn't a menu stuck up on the wall that tells you what adjustments could be made, so you don't know yourself what to ask for. Employers don't anticipate. Providing examples of adjustments is so important. To close the disability gap, we have to start to address the barrier of negative attitudes and exclusive practices. Employers need to change to become more accessible and inclusive. We need a focus on what Inclusion Scotland calls employer ability. All employers can take positive steps to employ, retain and promote more disabled people. Inclusion Scotland's report of the disabled people's annual summit contains a very useful table of essential and desirable criteria for employers. I commend the report to the chamber and to all employers, no matter what the size of their organisation, and encourage them to do all that they can to ensure that they are not missing out on the ideas, talent and expertise of disabled people. I call Jeremy Balford to be followed by George Adam. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I think that we have heard the figures and we have heard many already very positive contributions by our speakers. I think that there are a number of myths out there, myths within those who are employers, but also myths within the disability community and even with those with disability. The first myth is that the private sector is bad and the public sector is good. I think that that is a myth that we have to be careful that we do not buy into. If you look at local authorities and NHS, how many disabled people have made it to chief executive or to directors or to even senior positions within councils? For my brief looking over the last few days, the answer is very few. The myth that the public sector has got it right is simply not correct. Even as we look around this place this afternoon, we are well short of any target that we might be setting other people and perhaps we ourselves as political parties and as a Parliament need to get ourselves in order before we preach too much to others. The second myth is that employers do not want to employ disabled people. I do not think that that is the case in most cases, but I think that employers are generally scared sometimes of employing disabled people. They are scared that they will ask the wrong question, that they will not be able to make the reasonable adjustments that are required, that they will not be able to deal with the individual if it simply does not work out. It was interesting that I was speaking to a large employer here within Edinburgh, and they say that they welcome the different protected characteristics, but it also causes them issues. On the one hand, they are trying to make sure that the workforce is correct in regard to people's sexuality, gender balance and age, but they find it difficult to hold them all together and to give each one the correct emphasis that it requires. I think that we have to be careful that in a politically correct society, that is something to be welcome, that we do not go too far and that we stop employers being put off by simply not being willing to ask the right question. Ruth Maguire. I thank Jeremy Balfour for taking intervention. He mentioned that, as political parties, we could probably do better in being a bit more representative. Would he support affirmative action to make sure that our parties are more representative of the people that we are serving? I should probably declare an interest at this point. I want to be here, and I am sure that each member wants to be here, because they believe that they are the right best person to get elected, whether they have a disability, not a good disability, whether they are male, female or whatever. I am slightly wary personally of that, because I think that it can end up with tokenism, although perhaps it might be welcome that, if you are elected to this place, you cannot be thrown out if you have a disability. We just have to be slightly careful that we do not do it as a token way, but it is something that we need to explore. Why are more disabled people not coming forward? It was interesting that, in a conference that I attended in Canada last year in disability and politics, the reason seems to be not the electorate, but how you get into your political party and how you get yourself, if you like, known in that political party with a disability. That is a big issue. Ruth Maguire I appreciate him letting me come back, and that is very generous. My question is something that I have asked one of your colleagues before, in terms of gender equality. How long are you willing to wait for our chamber to represent the people that we represent to reflect better? Jeremy Balfour If I can dark that by 7 per cent, I have only got 45 seconds, and it is a big issue to discuss. Can I make two very quick closing points? One thing that I would ask the Scottish Government maybe to work with DWP and the UK Government, and I would say the same to the UK Government, is that for many employers it will be maybe once in five years that the employer is disabled person. At the moment, there is the UK website, the Scottish Parliament website, and there are lots of other websites. I do think that it would be really helpful if we could have one website where all the information could be found from both north and south of the border, and it would make it easier for employers. The final thing is that, and I did say at the start, I do think that there is a myth that sometimes disabled people feel that they are being discriminated against, and sometimes that will be the case, but sometimes it won't be. I was interested in the minister in his closing remarks, and I think that which is where words are important, said that each disabled person should be allowed to achieve what they want. I think that it would be slightly careful with that. I understand what he is saying, but if I had been at 16, said to the person at school, I would quite like to be a juggler. That might have caused some issues. Or, for someone with my disability, it might be difficult to be a surgeon. I suspect that not too many of you would welcome me at A&E on a Saturday night. That is why I think that there needs to be realism. Yes, we do want to encourage disabled people to be all they can be. I have been very privileged that, with my parents, with my school, with my university, within my party, I have been encouraged to do that. We also have to be realistic. There are some jobs that disabled people cannot do, and we have to wake up to that and acknowledge that, while at the same time allowing people to do all they can be within their disability. I am delighted to speak in this debate today. Personally, I feel very strongly about today's motion and the Scottish Government's desire to close the employability gap. Perhaps more than most, I understand the barriers and difficulties that disabled people often face when entering the workforce and the challenges that they experience on a daily basis when undertaking employment. That is because, as many of you know, my wife Stacey has multiple sclerosis. I see how she deals with that fight against that horrible disease every single day. It is also because of where I live, because I live in an area that is technically called an SIMD-20 area. It is mainly because every one of the tenemental properties in the bottom half of the street are all disabled and accessible housing. For that reason, because of 60 per cent of people with disability are unemployed, they end up in a situation in which they end up becoming an area of deprivation. One of the things that I want to mention is that MS Society brought up when they were talking about—they did a fantastic briefing for us today—an MS affects 11,000 Scots, Presiding Officer. Your diagnosis is between 20 and 30 years of age, which is key working years. It is years when everybody should buy their out in university or out in the workplace earning for the future, but MS becomes very difficult. It is made even more difficult when employers have an attitude with someone who has said that they have been recently diagnosed with MS. I have one example here from someone with MS who said that shortly after being diagnosed, 18 months, my employer sacked me, citing that MS is the reason. I was told that you will get a lot worse, your illness will cost me money and hiring in temporary staff to cover will cost us too much. We can talk about working with employers to ensure that they make things better, but they have to take on responsibility. When Mr Balfour says that we cannot say that public sector is good and private sector is bad, I am waiting for private sector to give the type of support that they need, because I am aware that a lot of public sector organisations do, although not perfect, provide that support. I think that we as parliamentarians need to continue to speak out and push those barriers to be knocked down so that it has to make one long-term, permanent and fulfilling employment as accessible as possible for everyone in Scotland. Employability plays an essential role in delivering the Scottish Government s aims of tackling poverty, supporting inclusive growth and promoting social justice. It is an integral component in the fairer and more prosperous Scotland that we all want to see. Being a socially just and people-oriented society is at the heart of the Scottish Government policy. A staunch commitment to equality and supporting those who often feel disenfranchised and isolated is an essential part of our country's modern identity. I am sure that we all agree that disabled people make a significant contribution to Scottish society and bring a wealth of talent, diversity and richness to our communities. Although they only make up 20 per cent of Scotland's population, disabled people only account for 11 per cent of the private sector workforce and 11.7 per cent of the public sector staff. In numerical terms, that is over a million disabled people in Scotland, but only 284,000 are in employment. Those figures are alarming and clearly indicate that there is an enormous amount of talent and skill being underused, just waiting to be harnessed. Through the creation of a fair and open transparent social security system and a continued drive to implement policy that, above all, upholds the principles of dignity and respect, it is equally clear that those benches are committed to supporting those furthest from the labour market and those at risk of long-term unemployment and work. Most of the barriers that disabled people face are a product of other people's attitudes and a reflection of the many biases that unfortunately still plague our society. The target is therefore that half of the disability employment gap is hugely challenging and will require a transformation in the way that society thinks about disability and employment. The Scottish Government is committed to changing those attitudes and to lead by example. The Access to Elected Office Fund has already placed provide financial support to help disabled people overcome the extra difficulties that they may face in striving for and then undertaking an elected position. In the recent local government elections alone, over 39 candidates were supported and with 15 of them elected as councillor. That fund is an area of personal importance to me as my sister councillor, Jennifer Adam McGregor, was one of the candidates who received unrivalled support and now is a proud member of Remshire Council. Jennifer Adam may be many things but she is not a product of tokenism and this is something Jeremy Balfour should reflect on. Oliver Mundell. I fully support the points that the member makes. I think that he makes the same point as Jeremy Balfour, ultimately. I think that schemes like the one that is supported by Inclusion Scotland that the member mentions should be tried first before we introduce quotas or set targets, making sure that people have the right support in the first place. Is that not the answer to getting more people into politics? Another 30 seconds or so, Mr Adam. Disabled people have the difficulty of getting access, as it is, to employability or to anything else in our society. In order to make that societal change, we need to make those quotas. We need to ensure that this place covers everybody in our society. I do not agree with Mr Balfour saying that. I have heard this for decades that talent is talent first and everything else later. I do not believe that disabled people do not have the talent to be here, they just do not have the actual support to be here and that is the main issue that we have in this scenario. With all that in mind, I always choose to look to the positives as we go forward. I am proud to be part of a Parliament and a country that stands up for everyone in society and continually strives to break down barriers as opposed to putting them up. The current disability employment gap of 37.4 per cent is unacceptable and the Scottish Government endeavours to at least half that percentage. That will certainly be challenging but, placing dignity, fairness and respect to the heart of the agenda, I think that the Scottish Government is showing its up to the task. Alex Rowley, followed by Gillian Martin. Today's debate on tackling the employment gap for disabled people is very important, given that there are over a million disabled people in Scotland. Research shows that disabled people's experience lower rates of employment and lower pay than non-disabled people. As disability agenda Scotland has said, some disabled people are not able to work but, for other people working, where possible, can have economic and social benefits for not only the individual but the people around them and beyond. Many disabled people wish to work, yet there are many barriers to entering the labour market, not just physical, developmental or related to their mental health but also in terms of societal and employer attitudes. Given that 42 per cent of working-age disabled people in Scotland are in work and that, for non-disabled people, that figure rises to around 80 per cent, the difference, which is now 35.8 per cent, tells us that something must be done. The recently published report from Inclusion Scotland, Situations vacant employer ability and disabled people's right to work, looked at many issues, and I was struck by the introduction that stated, and I quote, We believe that there is a vacancy to be filled by employers to improve their employer ability as good employers for us. We also believe that our right to work needs to be better recognised and addressed by all concerned. The introduction in the report goes on to say, of course, that some disabled people will not be able to work, to do certain types of work or to work for long periods, and some are now so far removed from the labour market that it will take years of support to get close to it again. However, many more of us are ready and willing to work. We believe that, for the actions to have the right impact, we, disabled people, need to co-produce the design and delivery of them in partnership with others. I want to briefly pick up on that point, that, for some people, they are not able to work and that must always be recognised, and people who are not able to work should be able to get the support that they need. Here in Scotland, we must do all in our power to ensure that we never find ourselves in the situation where the United Nations publishes a report stating that the UK Conservative Government has committed, and I quote, grave systematic violations of the rights of persons with disabilities. That was a damning indictment of the treatment by the Conservative Government of disabled people, one that should same us as a country and is why today's debate and the policy approach in Scotland is so important. Jamie Halcro Johnston I thank the member for taking an intervention on that. Would he also recognise the UN Committee said at a national level that it appears that the welfare system, together with the social and healthcare system, provides a solid base for the protection of the rights of persons with disabilities? Alex Rowley There is a further report out today that shows clearly that the welfare reform carried out by the Conservative Government not only failed disabled people, it failed the Government, it failed the economy. As Sally Witsher, the CEO of Inclusion Scotland said, most people need to work and poverty is not a great way of incentivising people to do so. In fact, it makes it harder. For those who cannot work, there must be respect and there must be dignity. For those far removed from the labour market, there needs to be greater recognition of their needs with programmes of support designed and delivered with the very people they aim to support. We should also be aware that the economic and social benefit to us all if we can achieve the goal of cutting the employment gap for disabled people. Research from the social market foundation has estimated that half of the disability employment gap in the UK and supporting one million more disabled people into work would boost the economy by £13 billion a year. As the poverty alliance state, we should do all we can to debunk the myths that disabled people are less productive as it is simply not the case. A recent survey showed that 15 per cent of disabled people felt they had been discriminated against when applying for a job and one in five while they were in work. That is why the Government must work with employers to overcome such issues and where necessary introduce stronger laws and proper enforcement of the Equality Act. We now need to get on with the work for it and it is the right thing to do for Scotland. To reach its social and economic potential, we have to provide opportunities for everyone to have the chance of fair and fulfilling work. The current disability employment gap is simply unacceptable. Combined with the support that has been offered by the new social security system in Scotland, hitting the target of having the gap will make a huge difference to people's lives and our wider society. We need to get in early to help people with disabilities or health conditions to stay in or move into work. I asked the Scottish Government in November last year what work was been done to ensure that early support was available to people with health and disability issues. I was pleased to hear from the Minister of Employability and Training that the Scottish Government would contribute £630,000 to a pilot for a single health and work gateway that will run until 2020 and provide that early support. The pilot will have links to Fair Start Scotland so that disabled people or people with health conditions who face the more severe barriers to work get referred to the right place. I also welcome the Workplace Equality Fund, which gives grants to employers to eliminate or reduce barriers to employment. We want to close the gap, but we cannot do that without employers. George Adam is right that grants are fine, but the attitudes that are going to be the biggest change need to be the biggest change. I am particularly concerned that there are not enough opportunities for work for young adults with learning disabilities in my area. I know from friends who have sons and daughters with autism and other additional support needs how worried they are about them leaving school and what lies ahead of them in the future. I welcome the continued support of the Scottish Government to support project search, a transition programme for people with learning disabilities and autistic spectrum conditions in the last year of education. In 2012, the Scottish Government adopted the programme, which originated in Cincinnati in the United States. In my area, the University of Aberdeen in collaboration with Inspire, Nes, Call and Skills Development Scotland, as well as the City and Shire councils, recruits 12 interns per year. So far, 68 per cent of the recruits have gained employment across Grampian. Anything that we can do to increase the recruit intake would be greatly welcome, because although for those 12 interns, this is a tremendous opportunity, I am pretty sure that there will be more than 12 people who would like to apply. The continuation of Scotland's employer recruitment incentive is also a positive step and provides £4,000 of funding to a company when they take on an eligible employee. However, I am also worried that the removal of the protected places scheme by the UK Government is out of step with this positive programme, and it could lead to many hard-fought job losses. I also want to recognise the work of Inclusion Scotland in providing advice and consultancy from those with disabilities on the barriers that can and should be removed to make the world of work more accessible and for delivering the disability and internship programme, which has 120 employment opportunities in the public and third sector. It is the third sector that I want to turn to. We must support and recognise the third sector's work in setting up social enterprises, which give training and employment to many young adults with additional support needs. I would like to pay tribute to some organisations of my constituency who provide that support and training. Inspires a charity, which has been a collaborator in project search in the north-east, provides the Inspire academy, and their 10-week course gives people with additional support needs the opportunity to develop employability skills and get hands-on experience in the workplace. There is FlyCup catering based in Inveruri, which provides adults with learning disabilities with training. Since 2000, the year 2000, it has helped dozens, probably hundreds of young adults, with learning disabilities into employment, in the catering and hospitality sector. Each trainee has a programme tailored to their individual needs, and they can achieve nationally recognised qualifications. The FlyCup does have quite a waiting list, which comes back to my earlier point. The demand outstrips the supply for good-quality training and work opportunities. Then there is Benchmark and Ellen, and they work with both councils to provide adults with learning disabilities opportunities to work and can do in Ellen, our community recycling organisation. They also make the best bedding plants that do not die when you put them into your garden. The work done by social enterprises such as those is vital to offering adults with learning disabilities a path into the world of work. Their dedication, combined with the strategic plans and funding of the Scottish Government, and their partner organisations will make the goal of having disability employment gap achievable. However, I agree with so many people in this chamber that we need employers to step up to. Alexander Stewart is followed by Gordon McDonald. I am delighted to be able to take part in today's debate. It is vitally important that we discuss those issues, and I am encouraged by many of the contributions so far. Prior to becoming an MSP, I spent almost two decades working closely with individuals with disabilities and learning difficulties, and it opened my eyes to the constant struggle that they endured on a day-to-day basis. Indeed, the past involvement and experience was recognised when I had the opportunity to open the making when we lived better conference last year, which was organised by Perth and Cynos Council. I was able to call on my experience and knowledge of private landlords, local authorities and employers in many parts of Scotland, whose current operating practices are apparently the lack of awareness that can affect individuals with learning difficulties. They are the individuals who want to see and want to have that independent life. To the end, I fully understand the importance of discussing and raising awareness of many of the discriminatory issues that face those people living with a disability. That is why it is vitally important that we acknowledge the work that has been done by businesses, charities and independent groups, and that across my region as well as other parts of Scotland, because that contribution that they make is vitally important to ensuring that we have much more of a greater justice for those individuals. My own party, the Scottish Conservatives, supports the delivery of fairness in the workplace. I am sure that we can all agree that we should ensure that there are no barriers to people with disability entering the market. However, more has to be done. We have heard already today about the difficulties about travel, the difficulties about application forms and also the interviews. I am delighted that it was the Conservatives back in 1995 that passed the Disability Discrimination Act, because it put a marker down. As it also focuses on employment, it is important that we echo the words that my colleague Adam Tomkins talked about when he spoke about a debate back in December 2016. He talked about the great stories of modern Britain, where we have more jobs available in our economy than ever before. Britain sees more women employed and more people with disabilities having the opportunity, but we still have further to go. We must acknowledge that. We still have further to go. In December 2016, there were nearly half a million more since 2013 and 360,000 more than just two years ago. However, Scotland still has a long way to go. We are not there yet, and we need to catch up. Many employers are seemingly paying lip service to employing those individuals in menial tasks. As I said, I saw that myself, individuals who got the opportunity to go in, but they did not get the potential. They were given tasks that we did not actually stretch them far enough. They became bored and frustrated by all that. We should do more to encourage them to unlock their potential. It is a terrible injustice that we have to ensure that the gap that is being dealt with is halved. It is very good that we have the halving of the disability employment gap, and many organisations, including the Law Society, have made some issues. The Law Society indicated that the issues of disability employment gap in Scotland are a pressing concern. The Law Society noticed that it is a pressing concern. We have seen today that, in the discussions that we have had and people's contributions, we believe that it is also a pressing concern that needs to be addressed and looked at. The Equalities and Human Rights Commission reported that up to 2013, the employment rate for disabled people was nearly 37 per cent lower than non-disabled people. That is totally unacceptable and has to be worked on. We have also discussed the internships and apprenticeships. Once again, we are not getting enough disabled people into those organisations. Through that process, because there are still barriers for them, they want to have that opportunity, but we are not getting the opportunity for them to be part and parcel of that. The Scottish Government has committed more and has 20 action points about disability employment gap. I wholeheartedly support that. The fairer Scotland for disabled people is exactly what we all want to see. We want to ensure that individuals have that opportunity, but they experience difficulties. They experience difficulties in affordability about transport, they experience difficulties in job applications and all the barriers that are put up in front of them to struggle into the employment market. In conclusion, I concur with many of the comments that were already made here this afternoon. Much more needs to be done to ensure that we can unlock the potential of individuals who just want to have a normal life. That normal life is a home, that normal life is a relationship and that normal life is a job. We should stick here together and ensure that we ensure that their dream becomes a reality. The Scotland Act of 2016 devolved the provision of new employment support services to this Parliament. Following that, in December 2016, the Scottish Government published the report of a fairer Scotland for disabled people that had five key ambitions and 93 actions. Ambition 2, decent income and fairer working lives, is aimed at ensuring that disabled people gain an adequate income in order to participate in education, voluntary work or paid employment, and there were over 20 actions to support the delivery of the same. The ink was hardly dry when, in April 2017, the first year that it had been devolved, the Tory Government significantly cut the budget for employability services in Scotland by 87 per cent from the expected £53 million to £7 million, but it was not just in Scotland that the budget was cut. Royal Blind Scotland's largest vision impairment organisation highlighted in their briefing for this debate that the working health programme, the UK successor to the work programme and work choice, identified that the funding will now be £130 million down from £541 million, a cut of £411 million. Despite that background of cuts, the Scottish Government has announced funding that will provide advice and support to employers to recruit disabled people, encourage them to offer work experience, paid internships and more access to modern apprenticeships. That funding, Presiding Officer, will promote the benefits of recruiting people with disabilities as part of a thriving, deviars workforce. The change in attitude and approach is what is so important, what needs to be more widely adopted and what I am pleased to see the Scottish Government hone in on. Looking at what there is to celebrate, rather than worrying about potential difficulties, is going to play a key part in improving the employability gap for people with disabilities. The chief executive of Inclusion Scotland has explained that, unfortunately, for far too long, it has been assumed that what stops disabled people from working and progressing in work is some deficit to do with the disabled person themselves. Work programmes that are based on such assumptions have singularly failed to address the disability employment gap down the years, yet the reasons disabled people are out of work may have nothing at all to do with lack of skills or education, a lack of ability to self-manage a health condition or a lack of confidence or motivations. In moves to change those assumptions, Fair Start Scotland, Scotland's new devolved employability service that began in April, is offering people with disability support that identifies and develops their strengths, what they can often uniquely bring to a job and company. We already have close to 300,000 individuals with a disability in work in Scotland, with 75 per cent of them employed by the private sector. In order to increase that number, we need SMEs to see the potential benefits for their organisations from having that diverse workforce, especially as unemployment for the fully abled is at a near record low. To create meaningful and long-lasting employment between SMEs and people with disabilities, disabled people and disabled people's organisations must play a central role in developing that partnership. Recognising that SMEs suffer from a lack of knowledge and employing people with disabilities is imperative in order to create any positive progression for employment of disabled people that we do all that we can to fill this gap of understanding, as well as address concerns or barriers from both the employer's and employee's perspective. The Scottish Government's congress on disability employment and the workplace brought together those groups to do exactly that. The new £1 million funding will ensure that employers, particularly those in SMEs, have access to up-to-date... I thank the member for taking an invention. Would he suggest that the Scottish Government looks to the example of the UK Government, where 600,000 more disabled people have been in work after four years? We have seen what has happened when the UK Government is responsible for employment support services in Scotland. We have got 42 per cent in disabled people in work. I think that that explains exactly what the UK Government has achieved in Scotland. People with disabilities, mental or physical, have a right to work. I believe that the Scottish Government is putting in place very valuable support for both employers and employees to ensure that more disabled people are in employment. Until that right is realised, we must all continue to play our part to change and challenge existing notions around employing disabled people. The debate today allows us to look at the progress that has been made on the Scottish Government's action plan on a fairer Scotland for disabled people launched, as we know at the end of 2016. The current consultation on increasing the employment of disabled people in the public sector is welcome in that context. I want to take that opportunity to start on my speech to encourage responses to that from communities across Scotland. It is in all our interests to address the unacceptable levels of unemployment and poverty amongst disabled people. A truly inclusive society must surely be able to provide good-quality employment, education and training opportunities for all and improving the experience and opportunities for disabled people in the workplace should be a priority. I welcome the minister's commitments to continue to engage with organisations that represent disabled people, including the STUC and its disabled workers committee. Last week's time for reflection was given by deaf Christian Bible teacher Kenneth Nuttall, who I had nominated to do so. Kenneth clearly conveyed the importance of understanding the different ways of communicating that deaf people have and the importance that that has in so many different settings. Good communication affects our access to services, our workplaces and our lives. Kenneth also commented to recognition given to British Sign Language, and I know that our Parliament takes that seriously. Indeed, my colleague, Mark Griffin MSP, introduced the BSL Scotland Bill. It was the first of its kind in the UK, and I also want to take the opportunity today to commend Mark Griffin for that. Without good communication, it is not possible for everyone to fully participate in the labour market. I feel that last week's contribution helped to make that important point in this chamber. In order for us to ensure that we are making progress, it is important to improve monitoring by employers. However, that requires disabled workers to disclose their disability, and we have already heard in some of the contributions this afternoon that often workers will be afraid to do that for fear of discrimination or for other reasons. That was a concern highlighted by the last STUC disabled workers conference. The employee with a recognised disability can receive support in terms of reasonable adjustment in the workplace, and if needed, is entitled to disability leave under the provisions of the Equality Act 2010. Good disability leave policies are few and far between, yet an employer should be fully aware of the difference between an employee's absence from work due to the disability and a general sickness absence policy. I trust that the Scottish Government will be encouraging employers to understand their obligations under the Equality Act 2010 with regard to respecting and providing disability leave, and perhaps as part of the employer ability that Alex Cole-Hamilton and Alex Rowley mentioned earlier in the debate. Funding through public procurement reflects the need for adequate staffing levels to support specific individual needs of disabled workers. As the STUC has identified through some very helpful training resources for trade union reps, some conditions are often not recorded with the employer, diabetes being one, when, in fact, it would be better for every one of the best possible support is in place. Of course, not all disabilities are visible and not all will be lifelong conditions. In that regard, disability agenda Scotland identifies the importance of personalised support and meeting individual needs. I just would wish to highlight that point again in the chamber today. Trade union equality reps can also play an important role here, and, although I welcome the commitments given by the Scottish Government in the past to encourage facility time for equality reps, I would urge support for moving that on to a statutory footing in the public sector. Although the focus today is on the labour market and employment, we cannot forget that economic inactivity as a measure completely ignores the role of unpaid carers, many of whom themselves are living with a disability. Of course, barriers to employment are complex, and the minister mentioned that in his opening remarks this afternoon. If you cannot access suitable public transport or find a suitable home within reasonable travelling distance of your workplace or a nursery place nearby for your children, then sustaining employment becomes much more difficult. One example of which I am aware are delays for adaptations to social housing, and given that proportionately more disabled people live in the social sector, that is affecting disabled workers right now. The Government's commitment to expansion of the childcare sector has been welcomed, but with regard to the topic under discussion today, I am keen to learn what proportion of the new jobs required as the workforce expands will there be for disabled people. Has sufficient funding being allocated to ensure the necessary support that is in place, and are the facilities in the public, private and third sector all accessible and compliant with disability legislation? For disabled people to be able to take up and remain in employment, we need to put more resources and planning into our social infrastructure, so that equal access and equal opportunity becomes a reality. Can I just remind the chamber that it was Alf Morris labour and co-op MP who was responsible in 1970 for the first-ever disability legislation? I thought that I could perhaps end with a quote from Alf Morris, when he gave a speech on the 25th anniversary of his act, where he said, "'Unfair discrimination leaves disabled people doubly disabled, that is morally wrong, and what is morally wrong ought to surely no longer be legally permissible in Britain." Can I just say that that must also apply in workplaces? Thank you very much. I call Oliver Mundell to be followed by Stuart Steams and Mr Steams, and we are the last speaker in the open debate. Mr Mundell, please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I would like to begin by going back to the sentiment echoed in the motion and picked up on by a number of members across the chamber, because there can be absolutely no doubt that the stubbornly high disability employment gap here in Scotland is unacceptable. Not only is it a tragedy on an individual level, but in a small country we simply cannot afford to miss out on the talent, skills and wider social benefits of ensuring the full and genuine inclusion of all our citizens. That is a particularly pressing point in rural communities such as the Dumfrieshire constituency that I am proud to represent. It is a point that I raised with Professor Russell Griggs, the new head of the South of Scotland enterprise partnership, which is laying the foundations and groundwork for the new South of Scotland enterprise agency. In a region where there is a net outflow of young people, it seems particularly crazy that we see a number of young people locally written off by society and by employers. While attitudes are clearly changing and there are some signs of progress, we must all accept the reality that we are a very long way off the end goal. Not only is this deeply demoralising and unfair to the individuals concerned, but for society and communities such as Dumfrieshire as a whole, we are paying a very high price for on-going stigma and discrimination. That is why I hope that for the new enterprise agency with its focus beyond just commercial activity looking at some social issues, I hope that it will be a key priority for them moving forward. As it happens, I will leave it to members to decide whether or not it was a coincidence, but I met Professor Russell Griggs at the usual place in Dumfrieshire. It is a social enterprise and cafe offering employment and training opportunities and qualifications to young people with a disability or additional support need. The project is an outstanding example of what can be done with the right support and where our services are led and driven by the individuals who benefit from them. Like Gillian Martin, I recognise the importance of the third sector, because in many cases it offers the additional flexibility. My experience is that the individuals involved in charities and organisations such as the usual place have a real passion and drive and determination that adds something over and above, and it is actually inspirational to the individuals that they help. The usual place has already proven itself to be successful in helping a number of young people into meaningful employment. I also encourage them to look at setting up their own businesses, but more than that, it has challenged wider social attitudes and inspired others in the community to look again at what steps they could take within their own business and workplace to break down barriers. Through my experience of the usual place and other similar organisations locally, I have seen that, as other members have commented on, that many of the issues around the employment gap go much wider than just employment itself—issues around transport, around housing and the support that people receive through social security. I think that that point cannot be emphasised enough. From my perspective, education and training lie right at the heart of ensuring that those with disabilities, mental ill health and additional support needs are as fully equipped for the workplace as possible. Too often, we see them denied opportunities before they even get to a job interview. That is not good enough, and when capable young people are leaving schools without qualifications, we cannot then turn around and pretend that we are surprised that they struggle to gain employment. I think that we also need to do more, as other members have said, to demonstrate to employers the benefits of recruiting a more diverse workforce. I recognise some of the issues that smaller organisations, without dedicated HR teams and without the flexibility of a larger workforce, often complain about or raise concern with. There are a whole range of initiatives out there to make it easier to deliver special requests and other measures that can be a barrier to hiring the best person for the job. Like Rhoda Grant in closing, I have been able to take part in Inclusion Scotland's We Can Work internship scheme. I have learned a great deal from that, probably more than Fiona. In closing, I want to let the chamber know that she has done a great job in that time to really challenge perceptions, not just that I have, but using her role within my office to speak out and use her voice to campaign on disability issues. Fiona said this week that she is determined to push forward work around British Sign Language, because she is sure that the next First Minister of Scotland or indeed the person who will find a cure to cancer could be sitting in a school in Dumfrieshire without the support and help that they need to make all that they can of their life. I think that that is the point. There is a huge, untapped pool of talent out there that we are all missing out on, and if we can get that right, then it will make a big difference. Thank you, Mr Mundell. I call Stuart Stevenson. Last week in the open debate, we moved to closing speeches after that. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I think that my key skill is an ability to conceal gaps in my personal knowledge and skills. For example, I play a new musical instrument. I would judge it a great success if I drove a golf ball more than 100 metres and my swimming abilities are close to nil. The reason that I raise those shortcomings that I have is to illustrate that there are many disabled people who can exceed me on any one of those shortcomings, and that will be repeated for all of us here. In other words, being disabled in one part of your life does not mean that you do not have abilities in another part of your life. I think that that is a key thing that we should all remember, but I think that it is surprising that we have not talked much about how we need to get inside the mind of many disabled people who are talked down perhaps quite early in their lives and who are made to think less of themselves than they should do. We need to look for some role models that illustrate that having a disability is not an impediment to a successful life. It is only two months since Stephen Hawking died at the age of 76. His intellect far surpasses, and I think that I will not be challenged if I put it this way, the collective intellect of us all here. I can read his book, The Brief History of Time. I seem to understand each sentence as I meet it, but when I ever get to the end of the book, I find very little that is penetrated the cerebral cavity on a permanent basis. Now, Alex Rowley talked about people who are disabled and unable to work. I think that that is certainly true, but I would like to put a different gloss on it, if I may. People who cannot work are nonetheless able to contribute to society, to give us something that is of value, simply by existing, even if that is to a small circle of family and friends, but very often to a much wider circle. We should not forget that. Now, some further models of achievement in disabled people. Dennis Robertson, a member here, of course, as we know, was blind. I had a work colleague when I went to join the Bank of Scotland in computers in 1969. I was stuck in a room to read some manuals to learn about what computers were and what he did with them. There was this person who used to come into this room, walk across the room, get some blank punch cards, put them in the punch machine and punch things out, take them away and off he went about his way. In the second week, when I moved the heater in the room, because it was very cold, it was approaching winter, and he walked straight into it that I got a full mouthful of abuse from Brian. Brian was blind, and I had not known him. He was blind for the first 10 days. Brian, because he was blind, had learned more or less off my heart all the technical manuals related to the IBM computers that we used. We used to go to Brian with all our really difficult questions, and he always had the answer. Another example of someone turning a disability into an advantage into a success. The other thing that there is—we have had reference to it—is invisible disability, particularly mental health and mental incapacity. Indeed, death is not obvious that somebody is death. We have to think very hard about how we help people with invisible disabilities to see a way forward in their lives and to help employers to understand that they are of value in their company. We have talked a bit about the economic contribution that can come from increasing the number of people who are employed. I have no time for that argument for a single second. We are all not here to serve an abstract idea that is called the economy. The economy is here to serve us, not to enslave us. We should remember that, whenever we consider the subject and a whole wider range of other subjects, it is interesting that there are wonderful models of disability. There are now quite a lot of disabled comedians, and they are not that great. It engages you and draws you in. I think that I will simply close by reminding us what it says in the title of the debate. A fairer Scotland for disabled people. Disabled people. Forget disabled. We are all people. I move to closing speeches. I call Mark Griffin to close for Labour. Please are generous. Six minutes, Mr Griffin. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am pleased that we have had an opportunity to debate how to deliver the right to work for Scotland's disabled people. Thanks are due to Inclusion Scotland, MS Society Scotland and others for their briefings as well as Disability Agenda Scotland, who published their End the Gap report last autumn. All those briefings in that report, and all the speakers today have underlined the fact that the disability employment gap of 43 per cent is unacceptable. Last year, I had the pleasure of hosting the DAS annual reception in Parliament, and today's debate allows us to recap on that event where the six charities that make up the organisation made their call for a target to help more disabled people into or to return to employment. The right to work should be universal. It is, of course, my party's purpose. Disabled are not works should give you independence, freedom from poverty and support you in building relationships. That is why our amendment today borrows directly from the DAS report, because we in Scotland must get on with setting our own target to close the employment gap. With just two in five disabled people in work, we must use our powers to make our commitment that anyone can live out their right to work. The Inclusion Scotland briefing rightly says that we should be working together to close that gap altogether. I hope that members agree that we must set targets to make progress on that journey. Given the rate of disabled workers in the Scottish Government, it is barely above that of the private sector at 12 per cent. I think that the public sector has to offer much more leadership in building a more inclusive workforce, a point made strongly by Jeremy Balfour. Some colleagues in the chamber might have noticed that, since the Easter recess, I have been wearing a hearing aid. That, for me, is a very minor adjustment, but still a minor disability. We know how lacking this chamber is in terms of the visible representation of disabled people. As Phil Meyer from Inclusion Scotland pointed out, the Parliament should have around 23 disabled MSPs in line with the calls of the 1 in 5 campaign. Changing that rate is in our gift. We can set new rules to encourage more people into politics. Last year's access to elected office fund showed how we can do it well, and more disabled people now have the opportunity and privilege of representing their communities. However, for normal workplaces, it is our job to make sure that we put the support in place to secure that right for them to work. I am struck by recommendation 8 that the system is unnecessarily complex. We have fairstarch Scotland access to work, the employer recruitment initiative, the single work and health gateway, and a few of those schemes. How they all slot together or who has responsibility for it is unclear. One of those schemes' access to work is described as one of the DWP's best kept secrets. It helps with additional transport costs, and for the death community it could pay for communication support and equipment. The report highlights that it provides a 48 per cent return on investment, but employers know very little about it. Crucially, it focuses on adapting the workplace, not just moulding a disabled person for the workplace. Co-ordinating support is, understandably, complex. It requires responsible, inclusive employers to make necessary adjustments. A Government put in the conditions in place to link disabled people with those employers, but the disabled people who want to work need to be in the right position to seek and take up work, with gig-employment zero-hours contracts and growing insecure work. Workers without a disability are struggling in the workplace. A number of speakers have pointed out that the debate is being held against a backdrop of potential cuts to the protected places scheme, which puts at risk 600 jobs. That is just the latest act of a UK Government, which the UN has said that it is systematically violating the rights of disabled people to lead the lives that they want. Ending re-employ, removal of disability premiums and cuts to the ESA, the bedroom tax, and portraying disabled people as scroungers and fraudsters have all given the UK this shameful title. However, with a new, fairer Scottish Social Security system coming and fair start Scotland schemes rolling out, there will be a change in the opportunities that disabled people in Scotland will have. Those social security will not be income replacement benefits. It will help to meet the costs of having a disability arising from day-to-day tasks and the mobility support that people need to get to work or to keep them in work if they acquire a payment. When I challenged the Social Security Committee to set a disability poverty reduction target in the Social Security Bill, it is fairly pointed out that the levers over income replacement benefits remain the responsibility of Westminster. Disability employment is also a big part of tackling disability poverty, because almost half of people in poverty live with a disabled family member. Setting a disability employment target with specific timescales would be an incremental step to both prove our commitment and the responsibility to tackle disability poverty too. It is fair to say that all parties across the chamber want to close that gap. We all want to have it and go further, but the question is when, when the TUC warned in 2016 that the UK Government was years behind schedule in delivering its manifesto commitment to halve the gap by 2020, the Tory's response was to water it down to get 1 million of the 3 million people disabled into work by 2030, I think, advocating its responsibility. Maybe today we start to build a path to halving the gap and urge colleagues to support their Labour amendment. Thank you. Thank you very much. Call Michelle Ballantyne to close to the Conservatives. A generous seven minutes please. May I first refer the chamber to my register of interests as I am a business owner and employer? As we have heard from across the chamber this afternoon, we are all committed to building a fairer Scotland for disabled people. With a million people in Scotland living with a disability or long-term limiting health condition, we need to harness that wealth of talent experience and diversity. Gaining new skills, earning a wage, developing a career are not and should not be the prerogative of the physically and mentally fit and healthy. Barriers to employment, both perceived and real, need to be addressed so that Scotland's disabled population can participate in both the economy and their communities. I share the minister's position that this will take an all-scotland approach and I welcome the creation of his new working group. Disability does come in many forms and it is not always visible. However, we know that the ability to participate plays a major role in improving mental health, building social skills and helping disabled people to stay active and well. These challenges are not new or, indeed, unnoticed, but we all have a lot to learn. Unlike Rhoda Grant, as an employer, I know the benefits first hand from working with and employing disabled people. I therefore welcome initiatives such as the recent Deaf Awareness Week, a fantastic multi-group campaign that highlights the challenges that deaf people face. I also welcome the intent that is displayed by the Scottish Government in their fairer Scotland action plan and, more recently, at the Congress on Disability Employment and Workplace. Alex Cole-Hamilton and Ruth Maguire mentioned the new word, employerability, and the Government's £1 million grant. Those are promising steps in the right direction. I look forward to reviewing the detailed action plan due for publication in the autumn, as well as examining the results of the consultation on disabled employment in the public sector. I echo the sentiments of Alex Rowley and other members that disabled people are strong partners in identifying the barriers and solutions for the plan. It must be a co-production. However, although the target of reducing disability employment gap by half is admirable, we have yet to see the timeframe for that ambition. Rhoda Grant rightly said that she did not want this Parliament to be having the same debate in 10 years' time. Therefore, I would urge the Scottish Government to follow the advice of disability agenda Scotland, a name for a realistic but ambitious target to close the employment gap. I can see you died together. You look poised if we were looking at it. We weren't looking, he was poised. Minister. I am waiting for the correct juncture. I take on both the point. Let me make it very clear that we will be supporting the Labour member that I absolutely recognise the necessity for us to set realistic and meaningful targets. In that regard, without wanting to strike any form of discord, would you, if she was me, regret that the UK Government has moved away from an explicit target of having the disability employment gap now to saying that it wants to see 1 million more disabled people employed, which is not the same thing? Michelle Ballantyne. No, I think that that is a decision for the UK Government. Having got 600,000 people into work in the last five years, there has been huge progress. For Scotland, you have actually said that you want to see this halved, so I am asking what is your timeframe for that. You have made a statement, we are asking for a timeframe. Deputy Presiding Officer, it is the year of the young people and the disability agenda Scotland, an alliance of leading disability charities in Scotland, have highlighted young people as the group most affected by the disability employment gap. Research highlighted by the group identified that although half of disabled young people were in further education nine months after leaving school, by the time they reached 26, they are four times more likely to be unemployed than their non-disabled peers and unacceptable potential lifetime of unemployment. Skills Development Scotland advised that the percentage of disabled young people participating in education has fallen, pushing the education participation gap up to 7 per cent between young people with and without disabilities. Jamie Halcro Johnston talked about the challenges of providing careers advice and support, particularly around those young people with learning difficulties, and asked the question, what can we do better to prepare these young people for employment? But even if a disabled young person obtains a degree, Papworth Trust figures reveal that graduate unemployment is 15.5 per cent higher for disabled graduates. The commission for developing Scotland's young workforce has made some good inroads in this area, but more work must be done to make sure that all our young people can get into employment, not just those without disabilities. No doubt, we will be looking to see if the Scottish Government's youth employment strategy is successful in achieving its tenth key performance indicator, which is to increase the employment rate for young disabled people to the population average by 2021, so there you have an actual time limit for young people. As Gillian Martin highlighted, early intervention is key to ensuring that disabled people can successfully enter the workforce. Of course, unemployment is not an issue that just simply affects young people. It is prevalent across all age groups, but Oliver Mandell highlighted that, in a small rural population, a very high price is being paid for on-going stigma. Whilst Jeremy Balfour raised the important issue of ensuring that employers feel confident about employing disabled people and recognising that, while we must need to support and encourage disabled young people, we also need to be realistic when giving them their options. Both Mr Mandell and Elaine Smith and others talked about the important role of the third sector plays in supporting people and providing employment for disabled people. We need to take some of the weight off their shoulders, and I agree with others when they talked about how we need to look at how we support the public sector and the private sector to create more employment and be able to support people once they are employed. George Adam and others talked about the need to ensure that employment of disabled people is not tokenistic. The issue of quotas came up. I have no doubt that the issue of quotas will remain a point of debate, but the key thing is that it is not tokenistic. In conclusion, Scotland still has some way to go in reducing the disability employment gap. Scottish Government figures show that there are just over 3.5 per cent fewer disabled people in work now than when the current Government came to power. Additionally, the unemployment rate for disabled people in Scotland is 3 per cent higher than the rest of the UK. We have spoken several times about the fact that 600,000 disabled people across the UK have moved into employment since 2013, so something must be working. With the devolution of new welfare powers to this Parliament, including the ability to top up benefits, it will be absolutely clear now that Scotland and Scotland alone is responsible for its track record on cutting the disabled employment gap. My recent visits to the Royal Blind School— We haven't got time, I'm afraid, and that was an awful long conclusion. You must conclude, please. Sorry. Many disabled people are highly skilled, intelligent and charismatic. By not utilising their skills, we're making a mistake and a foolish one at that. Thank you very much. Can I remind members to speak through the chair and not to use the U word? One day, you're all going to remember that, and I'll celebrate. I now call Jamie Hepburn to close for the Government Minister. Nine minutes, or just under nine minutes. I thank you, Presiding Officer. I will not use that word in relation to anyone else. I also thank members who have contributed to today's debate. It's very clear that there is broad consensus across the chamber for this agenda. There are clearly some differences, but I think that we are united in our desire to move forward with a sense of urgency in relation to the agenda that we have set ourselves. Let me pick up on some of the issues that have been raised over the course of the debate. Let me start off with the point that Jeremy Balfour made one with which I agree. He talked about the mythology that somehow the private sector is bad, and the public sector is good in relation to the employment of disabled people. The figures show clearly that that is not the case. It is the case that the employment rate is higher in the public sector, but when you consider that of the overall public sector workforce, 11.7 per cent are disabled people. By comparison to 11 per cent in the private sector, it is not exactly something to write home about. Neither sector is performant, so that underlines the scale of the challenge before us. I turn to Mr Halcro Johnston's comments, in particular his intervention on Gordon MacDonald and the point that was made by Michelle Ballantyne about 600,000 more disabled people being in work over the last four years across the UK. He was looking for some reassurance about the position here in Scotland. What I can say is that, over the past four years, there are 55,000 more disabled people in employment in Scotland, which, if it offers him any reassurance, I suppose I must say that we are moving broadly in the same direction here in Scotland as well. I urge caution with those numbers. That goes to the fundamental point that I was making my intervention on Michelle Ballantyne. A lot of that change has been driven by demographic change. What we see there is that people who are already in the workplace fall into the category of being disabled and, effectively, those who are already far removed from the labour market remain out with employment. That has to be our fundamental task to reach out to those who are not in work and get them into employment. I agree with Jamie Halcro Johnston's point that we have to consider how many people have missed opportunity. That represents lost potential. That goes back to the point that I made at the outset of today's debate. That represents a social injustice. Everyone should have that opportunity. I agree with Mark Griffin's perspective that the right to work should be a universal one. I agree— I am sorry, just a minute. It is not acceptable that you are back to the chair and have a conversation. Are we back to your seat? How unfortunate, Presiding Officer. I agree with Alex Cole-Hamilton when he says that being in work offers social connectivity. He was obviously engaging a little too much social connectivity a moment ago. When it is done correctly in the workplace, it is an apt thing to do. Rhoda Grant was quite right to say as well that our work can define us. We must ensure that everyone has that opportunity. As I said earlier, it represents an economic injustice. The flip said that there is an economic imperative in getting more disabled people into employment. Our labour market statistics right now show that we have high levels of employment. Despite that, when I am out speaking to employers, they will tell me that they still have vacancies and skills gaps. We cannot afford to have a situation where we overlook the talents of disabled people in Scotland. Oliver Mundell was quite correct to make that point. Alex Rowley was quite correct to highlight the boost to the economy that getting more disabled people into employment would represent the Scottish Government's chic economic adviser. He recognises that having the disability employment gap would lead to a 3.5 per cent increase to GDP. Efforts must be made to get more disabled people into employment. Some are under way. Rhoda Grant and Oliver Mundell referred to the Inclusion Scotland internship programme, which I have been very happy to take part in. The Scottish Government also supports an internship programme within its own workforce. We support the access to elected office fund that Mark Griffin and George Adam mentioned. Gillian Martin spoke about some of the work that is being undertaken by project search and through some of the third sector organisations that she was laying out doing work in her area, supporting those with a learning disability to get into employment. In that regard, let me offer an absolute assurance to Alison Johnson that Fair Start Scotland will fully support those with a learning disability, which is particularly important because we know that, in particular for those with a learning disability, employment rate is worse still than the overall employment rate for those with a disability. It is important that we take every effort to ensure that that is a group of people whom we support. On the overall issue with the disability employment gap, I think that we were quite correct—a number of members were quite correct to make the point—that the problem is not with disabled people, but with a societal one. At that point was made by Jeremy Balfour, Ruth Maguire, Gordon MacDonald and, in particular, and she spoke about the mythology that exists out there—the misunderstanding of the abilities of disabled people. I thought that Stuart Stevenson's illustration of the innate abilities of people was a very good way to move forward and to look at those things. Ruth Maguire spoke about the necessity for reasonable adjustments to be made in the workplace. That is already a statutory requirement. The starting position that we must adopt must be at the very least to expect, as a minimum, employers to do what they are legally obliged in. I assure Elaine Smith on that regard that the Scottish Government will strongly encourage employers to be aware of their legal responsibilities as a minimum. I will give way to Daniel Johnson. I thank the minister for giving way, and I very much agree with his points about needing to do more to ensure that employers make reasonable adjustments for those disabilities. However, disability is not just about those with physical disability. It is also people with intellectual and neurological disabilities such as neuroviral mental disorders such as dyslexia, dyspraxia. Will you agree with me that more needs to be done both throughout erasing awareness and making sure that employers do more to make reasonable adjustments for people such as those? I bear in mind that I have ADHD. Will it indeed a ruin? I think that Mr Johnson, if he does not mind me saying his willingness to come to this chamber and talk about his personal experience, is an important one, because it shows people out there watching this debate and any debate when he makes that point that we, as a partner, are willing to engage in talking about those issues. Let me come to conclude, Presiding Officer, because I do agree with the point that has been made by Rhoda Grant that wishful thinking alone will not achieve the objectives that we have set ourselves. I agree that we need to set meaningful but realistic targets. We need to set a meaningful and realistic timescale. I will need to be transparent about how we are going to achieve having the disability employment guard. That is why we will have no hesitation in supporting the Labour amendment this evening, and we will support the Tory amendment as well. Let me assure Rhoda Grant that, while we agree with that point, we will also be getting on right now with the work that we have set ourselves, the task that we have set ourselves, to get ready to half the disability employment gap. Our first priorities will be to take forward the announcements that were made by the First Minister at the Congress in April, the consultation on whether the public sector should have targets for disability employment rates, the publication of the disability employment action plan later this year. Those are the things that we will be getting on with immediately, Presiding Officer, but, of course, that is a significant effort that we must undertake. I am very clear, and, as I said to the outset of this debate, that the work is not the Government's alone, and it cannot be achieved by the Government alone, but the Government will be a leader on these matters. Today, Presiding Officer, I call on everyone across Scotland to come with us on this journey, one that will take us close to a more diverse workforce where everyone has the chance to flourish and disabled people are able to fulfil their potential. I thank the minister and members, and that concludes our debate on a fairer Scotland for disabled people. Before we turn to decision time, members will recall that Daniel Johnson raised a point of order last Thursday regarding the Education and Skills Committee. The issue related to the conduct of the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills and the officials working for him. Although I was grateful that the member gave me advance notice, because decision time had been brought forward last Thursday, I did receive very short notice, a few minutes notice of the point of order, which highlighted several rather detailed points, and it was for those reasons that I undertook to look into the matter and return to members now with my response. As members will be aware, I should say first and foremost that complaints against ministers are for the ministerial code, and complaints against civil servants are for the civil service code. In relation to that specific matter, I understand that further clarification from the Government has been requested by some members of the Education and Skills Committee, and no doubt the Cabinet Secretary and his officials will respond as soon as practicable, and I think that that process needs to be allowed to take place. However, in terms of the wider point about the relationship between committees and the Scottish Government, the protocol on this is long-standing and is between the Scottish Government and the convener's group. It is important to ensure that this protocol works for both the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government and recognises the respective role of both. I hope that that addresses the point of order. We turn now to decision time, and there are three questions to be put as a result of today's business. The first question is the amendment 12344.1, in the name of Jamie Halcro Johnston, which seeks to amend motion 12344, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on a fairer Scotland for disabled people, tackling the employment gap, be agreed. Are we all agreed? We are agreed. The next question is the amendment 12344.2, in the name of Rhoda Grant, which seeks to amend the motion in the name of Jamie Hepburn, be agreed. Are we all agreed? We are not agreed. We will move to a division, and members may cast their votes now. The result of the vote on amendment 12344.2, in the name of Rhoda Grant, is yes, 81, no, 28. There were no abstentions, the amendment is therefore agreed. The final question is that motion 12344, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, as amended, is agreed. Are we all agreed? We are not agreed. We will move to a division, and members may cast their votes now. The result of the vote on motion 12344, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, as amended, is yes, 81, no, 28. There were no abstentions, and the motion, as amended, is therefore agreed. That concludes decision time. We will now move to members' business, in the name of Liam Kerr, on increasing awareness of restorative justice within the criminal justice system, and we will just take a few moments for members and the minister to change seats.