 Okay, it's 5 o'clock on a given Thursday here at Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel. We're doing Global Connections today with our friend in Varanasi, India, Karnaki Mishra. Welcome to the show, Karnaki. Hi, dear. I'm fine. I'm good. It's lovely. Yeah. Well, I'm glad we got connected. It's just sometimes it's a long way from here to India. We can see you fine. I'm going to hear you reasonably well. I think the big news, and you mentioned this to me before, the big news in India is COVID, that is coronavirus. And I wonder if you could give us an idea about what that news is and how COVID is affecting India these days. Yeah, it's quite now the strength of patients is increasing day by day, and the count is around the total number of people who are infected now is around 50,000. What do you wish I found in the 40,000 cases are active? There are 1,700 deaths around, and 15,000 people have recovered as well. So there is a constant rise in number of patients every day around 1,000 or 1,500 patients every day are emerging after being tested in India, going testing rapidly. And we are trying to increase our testing phase so that we can improve our data on this because if we don't test properly, we don't get proper information how many people are being affected due to that coronavirus. In Varanasi itself, I guess around 77 people are infected by the coronavirus. There is one casualty and 10 people have recovered in Varanasi. So it's a pandemic throughout India. All of India, it is a complete lockdown in India. So it's been much, and it's raining now, and I think this lockdown will continue at the end of the night at least, but there are plenty of time to move back and on for the coronavirus because it's not a family to be coming. Well, India is pretty advanced on medicine, and this is a challenge. So far, India has done pretty well, but it could take off any time, as you say. And I wonder, what about the social distancing? Are people staying at a distance? Are they wearing face masks? Yes, masks are now completely available. Everyone who is going outside should wear masks and gloves. It's pretty negative right now. It's not time to follow, but the problem is sometimes people are neglected also and they are too busy or they need something. Please don't think about that. But now, the government is increasingly aware about social distancing and already people are getting much more aware these days and are now following. I think it will take some time to express that social distancing because it's totally something new that people are facing prior to this challenge in the world. So I believe the social distancing in one mask will take some time, but after this coronavirus pandemic, it will be a permanent treatment. You know, I read that you have some very interesting initiatives going on. One, for example, is you put a bunch of doctors or medical students on an airplane and you fly them from one part of India to another in order to deal with any outbreaks. That's very impressive. Is that happening as a regular matter? Yes, the government is trying to take that initiative and our medical students and doctors were responding quite well. And certainly, I believe that this pandemic has led to us in a state that we should improve our medical infrastructure between the pandemic and the corona right now. We are trying to expand that. We are trying to improve our medical staff planning, we are trying to provide PPE kits for everything, everything possible to our work staff. People are being taken care of and the medical staff is working quite hard on this situation. And we are calling them coronavirus our work staff, our medical staff. We are working on the front line and the government is trying to appreciate the efforts of people. Thank you. I read also that you have trains. India has a very well-developed train system and the trains cross India back and forth and you are also using the train system to deliver doctors and medical professionals from one part of India to another and to deal with any outbreak. Is that happening as a regular matter? Yes, it's happening. And India talks about trains. I read also that the government is trying to use those trains also as quarantine centres for people. So the trains are also being distributed. For this transportation, it's completely left in India that there is no train traveling for the rest of the states. Some literary locations are there for research or they are working in various parts of India. These people are in trouble because they need to travel to their homes for whatever benefit they need or whatever situation they have to control because they are putting jobs there now, money becoming an issue. How does it work to control this pandemic and improve the economic situation as well? I think the government has shared pretty well in the now, but we have to improve its pace because now things take place according to India's value. The rest of the country expects the peak of coronavirus may be in July or June so things are disappearing ahead also. Yeah, I read that I'm not sure how far it's going to go, but in the near term the government has decided to try to reopen parts of the economy. That's the same phenomenon that's happening in the US where the government wants to reopen parts of the economy. And it's not clear that we're ready in the US. We don't have sufficient masks. We don't have a developed testing system. We don't have ventilators for hospitals in the ICU part of the hospital. And I wonder if it's the same thing in India. I mean, do you feel that India is ready to go back and start up its economy again now? No, it's not possible. Both means for the government is that people are struggling. The people who are working are in construction sites. People are working in the informal sector. This has to be very much done with lockdown. So for them, the government is taking some initiative that is now in lockdown for elections for the government. It's following those particular industries. If people take care of some rules and regulations for the government then you can provide some industries to work on because poverty is very big here. The people who are working are the people who are struggling with coronavirus. And it's a challenge. If you think about coronavirus, the question arises sometimes, poverty needs to be a situation that we can't close the economy for a long time. Some small steps are being taken that a complete shutdown is not now possible. But some people are working that means they want to keep going. It's not the last two, but very few. Well, it's like the U.S., you know, you want to shut down an economy with, you know, in your case, you're four times the size of the U.S. You have 1.3 billion. We have 300 million. And it's traumatic to shut down an economy that big. And it's going to take some time to bring it back up again. So I wonder how you feel you're a business graduate and you're a graduate business normal. I wonder how you feel about trying to make an economy come alive again with that many people and that many, you know, connected parts. Let me repeat the question. You know, you are a very big country. You are 1.3 billion. We are only 300 million in change. If we shut the economy down, it's complicated. But if you shut the economy down, it's more complicated. And I wonder how you feel as a business student, how you feel about trying to bring it back up again. It's not going to be easy, is it? It's not going to be definitely easy because 1.3 billion people, as you said. It's quite much in numbers as well as in strength. So the problem is in more of the population, we have the more number of chances of people being unemployed, more chances of getting people in poverty. If things don't improve in the future. So government is trying to take steps. That fund sector will be open to the IT sector because the software will open up. Some industries will open up. But the companies, overall improvement of the economy is not possible in today's scenario. It will be happening somewhere in the future. I see around December or January. Of course this coronavirus pandemic will stay with us for a very long time. Not just in India, but in the rest of the world as well. I think the number of positions are increasing in the United States as well. 1 million people are affected in the United States. So 70,000 casualties. It's the emerging newer tragedy. Global economy is in trouble right now. Oh sure, absolutely right. And likely to get worse, I would say. So what about the people in India who don't have reserve funds? What about the people in India who could be hungry? They don't have a job, they don't have any income, they don't have anything to fall back on. Is the government of India able to help them and to pass out food, to pass out money so they don't starve? What's being done about that? It's trying to do that. That no people should get hungry or get into poverty so some efforts are being taken by the government to improve. People not just in government who are trying to send rations and food to people who are living around the city. If you lock down, no one can travel. So the government is delivering food from door to door. It's government initiative. And second thing is that medicines are also there. The government is also providing medicines home to home. And people, I think the most important thing is that it's not about the government helping, it's about people taking medication. That's one thing happening in India. But people from all the walks of life are now coming together to help people who are in our society. It's more happening in the world. If someone is coming to my door, I am trying to help. People are now taking medication. And it's happening. Well, you've had issues with Kashmir. In fact, last time, a couple of times ago when we spoke or issues with Kashmir, of course there's always issues with Pakistan. And I'm wondering how those countries are doing and how the relationship of India with Kashmir and Pakistan they have changed because of the epidemic. Can you talk about that? Look, now we have a lot of Kashmir and Pakistan. So our time minister took an initiative in the early early stages to set up a meeting with the Pakistani counter leadership in Pakistan as well. But the start summit was taking place. We seven neighboring countries went via basically like we are talking. And we discussed about how can we face that challenge of the coronavirus pandemic. Kashmir will remain an issue, I think, politically, but we must also believe that it's not the time to discuss about politics. It's time to face the reality. Pakistan will be facing the same thing if they don't take the right steps and if we don't cooperate together at least not right now. But even after that time some terrorist attacks or activities are being taken place in Kashmir and the government is trying to stop that as well on border. The pandemic has a very great impact on that and I think Kashmir issue will be left for a long time if we look at that. But right now politics on international scale is not necessary between any nation, I believe. Good. So I wanted to ask you about Varanasi. I wanted to ask you about your school. I wanted to ask you about your own lifestyle. Can you talk about how things are doing in Varanasi? Are you locked in right now? Have you been spending time only at home? Are you getting out much? As you go to the market? How do you spend your time? Because everybody that I know is staying home and doing Zoom communications like this and I wonder if it's the same for you? Yeah, it's a lockdown in India and it will remain till 17th of May at least right now. That's from my country. But I am working. I think college is working to Zoom mode only. The assignments are being provided online. We are submitting assignments online. The tests are being taken online. So everything is now Zoom. And I think that this thing, parking time has become a hard activity because now I am at home so I have not a free time. So I can read a book, watch a movie, watch a TV after assignments and all the work is writing about the test. I am getting a lot of time and a lot of activities are there so I am enjoying it as well. Yeah, I have the same experience. There is a benefit of being able to catch up on things and read and watch entertainment and documentaries. There is a benefit of being home. Although some people feel cooped up and some people do not provide by the lockdown and they violate that, go out on the street and take a risk and risk other people that way. Now, if you did that or somebody that you know did that went out on the street, violated the lockdown what would happen? Would the police do something about it? Yeah, the government is quite strict about that. So you are breaking your ground with considered criminals and non-native criminals. They will not get paid at you Government is quite strict about this lockdown if you are not following it you will end up in jail and it is quite possible. And strict measures are being taken because it is on the ground that if someone breaks that lockdown in a very non-serious manner if we or she takes it very casually the government will take action but people are people who take it better between like it is here. Some people take it casually but the rest of them are very serious and people have seen that too. I know you from our discussions well enough that you follow international events and that you are following this as we are as an extraordinary turn of history and I wonder what your thought is about where it is all going how it is going to affect the planet how it is going to affect global relations and what do you want to call it, humanity and civilization because we don't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet people can talk about you know the end of the lockdown and the resurrection of the economy but there is no certainty about that where or when or how and I wonder what your thinking is because I would really appreciate knowing how you feel about this and what your own personal philosophy is about it and I think this coronavirus has to change in the world and the world will not remain the same even after this coronavirus finally political relations between countries will change the style of trade which we are doing which will, the battery life will change the lifestyle which we are currently living right now battery life will change we are changing the global world order countries becoming more protectionist in globalization being coming down because as this has led to that more homegrown industries might be possible in future as we can say that the US is that whole world with China due to that but President Trump is blaming China that they have made such thing but he is calling that Chinese virus President Trump said that, I heard that so I think China will be drastically affected industries will, I could move from out of China and this will affect the whole world in such a manner that I see that next five to ten years I think economies will be close, it will be more protectionist and it will take some time to recover and to go on the track which we were on in 2019 it's very possible, it's very possible yeah, let's talk about China for a minute and I always always ask you what you think about what Trump is doing I mean right now he's into name calling with Xi Jinping and Xi Jinping is responding and the two of them they may at some level claim that they're friendly but it doesn't seem that way and I'm wondering if you see this as a threat to global relationships and I'm also interested in knowing how India might be affected by an argument between the U.S. and China the way it seems to be evolving China is already in this column a lot of time because the whole origin of corona virus was China and they tried to cover it up, the information was consumed revealing the fact that we are facing the threat of this level, China did not reveal that information so not only the United States, Italy Australia and all the nations of Europe are now blaming China or showing China for that pandemic from the tragedies and the damages China has made so keeping that in mind I believe that in future the tensions may increase between the United States and China and this tension has led to a situation that these companies which are leaving China may end up in India it's a very possibility that the low labor costs which you are getting in China you might get in India but India is also trying to balance that fact that if we get into trouble between the United States and China we might face some issues because China is the third largest trading part of India and I think this has led to a situation of balancing that India will try to balance between the United States and China but things get managed somehow and we move on to with this balanced policy So you are not too far from the northern border of India I wonder is the northern border closed? Are the borders of India closed right now? Is it porous between India and the surrounding countries including China? Yes, the borders are closed there is no travel between countries and neighboring countries even flights are being stopped there is no travel between nations any kind of travel is not possible in such scenario even state to state cities are not possible so I can't imagine a travel between nations will be possible and I am not seeing that in future but it will be very possible as well I am not seeing that flights will take place in future as well in months coming in July June I believe that international flights and travel will somehow will begin after July or other if possible Yes, we say, knock wood knock wood So Mr. Modi, how is he doing? Is he popular? Is he popular with you? Is he popular with the people that you talk to? Is the country behind him? Does the country believe he is doing the right thing? Yes, I think as the Prime Minister it's now a global threat So as the Prime Minister every single Chief Minister or Government what we call in America is also called Chief Minister India Every Chief Minister every federal level Government in India is now trying to work with the Central Government with the Modi Government so that, so we can deal with this pandemic because it's not now about politics it's now about handling the issue I am very very happy that politics is being correctly in India that we are not looking at politics right now I think people are also political parties are not seeing politics but people are not seeing politics right now the only issue we have to be with you is coronavirus and that's the only thing that Government is doing mind right now politics will begin after this but not right now right now Well I know that you have a lot of access to American news and you know that in America a good percentage of the people feel that Trump has been very unsuccessful very misguided in his actions and policies around coronavirus and he's motivated in large part by his political aspirations to win the election in November but I wonder how, you know I've asked you this question before I wonder how you and the people you know in India how you feel about the effectiveness of Trump's policies and actions on the coronavirus I just, one thing which I can say that the President did not put a lot of feelings in the beginning when the Secretary of State and the Government of the United States put action to curb that and even right now I think Trump is eager to open up the lockdown I am seeing that, but we are quite excited how I can end that lockdown and get the economy back on track but at least from my point of view the United States is not in a position right now to end the lockdown and to bring back the economy and talking about the United States election in November I don't think that elections will happen like that in future you may have to postpone the election it's quite possible Olympics can be postponed so can the US elections so that there is a possibility that elections will fail Trump might face a very great threat in elections because he is not handling that situation for him President Trump should improve his way of dealing with coronavirus and be more sensitive towards people of the United States and I think he can do that but it will need some time he is not right now with coronavirus, he is not political mode of winning the US elections Joe Biden is in competition he is closing in Joe Biden is closing in with his President so I think that US elections will face challenges this time now who do you support look this is my big question actually because I will say that any President who is beneficial for India will be good for me as well because I don't have time until I do let me ask you another another question would you support Joe Biden yes he was white President during Barack Obama we have good relations what about his Vice President that issue is not yet resolved and every day we wonder are you there so Carnegie you might support Biden but my question is what about his Vice President everybody is waiting for Biden to make a decision about his Vice President who already said he is going to select a woman as his Vice President you have any thoughts about who should be his Vice President I think he can be Vice President which part is he he was in election he might become Vice President and I think Joe Biden will give a little competition to Donald Trump this time because this 2020 will be a very challenging for President Trump as well and your elections will get interesting this time quite interesting that we might win because prior to this pandemic and the situation being serious I was thinking that Trump might have a Trump as winning election but right now I think President Trump is quite poorly handling this situation this might affect your election I think this new election will be one of the most interesting feelings in Biden's view what we have seen as you know many people in the United States see Trump as dismantling democracy as dismantling our democratic government balance with power between the branches of government very concerned that if he wins another term he will become a dictator he will dismiss Congress and he will elude the courts and he will, the law will be with him only a very great concern India is a great democracy a fabulous democracy and I wonder how people in India feel about the decline of American democracy in this administration one writer in Ireland wrote a piece which was very resonant and he said in the past the people in Europe and the EU felt that the United States was a world leader now they feel pity for what is happening pity he said and I wonder how the people in India feel about this decline of democracy democracy I think democracy is all about people constructing democracy how much people trust government in democracy I can tell you that it's not about the president of the country it's about people it's about someone who lives alone in the country which is very sensitive and when talking about democracy sometimes one thing which I have observed that one Chinese wants two elections and that also which are very landslides between people saw him as a kind of dictator who can understand that it's with the perception that when you win in a drastic manner in a landslide that people say that you become itself and I'm not saying that it's very possible that sometimes governments approach might become quite hard but democracy is the question that I can say that collective intellectual of people is much more powerful than the government people always choose what is right for them and I think we are very biased against the democratic nations in the United States and India I think that people of the United States are changing their backwards in their time at that point of time who was right for us and this will happen in future democracy will not change the governments which are functioning really well we can change the mindset how people are approaching the democracy Carnegie you know I feel we've talked about this before that you're an up and coming you look more than a student you have a global awareness about you I've always thought that it would be nice for us to meet in public in person I've always thought it would be nice to meet in person but it seems like the coronavirus is just another obstacle to that meeting but I continue to hold on to the thought that one day we'll get to meet in person short of that maybe in a few weeks we can get back together or get on the phone here and explore the changes the changes in India and other countries as this virus goes on some people say of course it's changing the world and the question is in what direction is the world changing so keep watching we'll keep watching and we'll compare notes the next time you thank you Carnegie very nice you joined him from time to time and learned so much thank you so much welcome