 All right. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Hyperledger Technical Steering Committee call. All are welcome to attend, and all are welcome to contribute to the Hyperledger project, so long as you abide by our antitrust policy and our community code of conduct. And chat, normally what we do with chat during these meetings is we conduct that over the chat.hyperledger.org in the TSC channel. I think we discussed the last minute update there on the Roja link, so thank you for that. Hey, Dan. Yeah. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I cannot see any screen sharing. If people were sharing any of the disclaimers, I'm not seeing it. Oh, sorry, that would probably be me. You know what, I am unable to do that at the moment, so Dan, if you can share your screen, maybe. My screen is super cluttered right now, so I think we'll just maybe work without screen share. If you look at the agenda page, you will see the antitrust policy that we're required to share, as well as... Bingo. Somebody did. Yep, looks great. Thanks, Solana. Thanks a lot. Solana to the recipe. Okay. Okay, task forces, CICD, Dave, do you have an update there? I do. So the only real update here is similar to last week, so I know that we've been due a report soon. The task force has narrowed things down to several options for short term, several options for long term, and due to all of everybody's summer travel and trying to get everybody in the same room, we were just able to have a meeting last week to look deeper into like CircleCI. And in the background, we've been discussing lots of things like the impact on budget and the impact on all the teams and what the real timeline is in coordination with other groups, the projects and LFIT and all that kind of stuff. So the report has not fully formed itself yet. We're still waiting to answer some big questions, but Rai's been a huge help here. His knowledge of the internals of LFIT have been crucial to being able to move forward on this. I know that the report's going to come before the board meeting. That's about the only thing I can tell you it's going to happen. So it's going to be in the next week. That's where we're at. I apologize for the delay, but I didn't want to waste your time by speculating. So that's where we're at. The feedback you need from contributors is stalled basically on vacations. You don't need assistance. It is no longer stalled by vacations. We finally got the meetings we needed to happen last week and that sparked a bunch of discussion. So we're trying to formulate exactly where we go from here. Great. All right, on to the Project Lifecycle Task Force. Arno did a big update over in that page to split those issues out and I'm sure that was a fairly tedious task. So I appreciate that. I think that helps organize the discussion so that we can more easily reach resolution on each of the resolutions. The link to that in chat if you don't already know where to go find that and then Arno are there any I don't know low-hanging fruit there that you want to discuss? So okay so as you just said I mean we did a bit of rework based on Silona's suggestion I think last time a while ago. I split the page so that every issue is in a single page which hopefully will help channel the comments and then and make it easier for those who are trying to follow to see what is changing. As Dan and I have noticed the notifications you get from the conference regarding changes on the page are sometimes pretty obscure as to what has actually changed. You can infer something has changed but beyond that it's often hard to know what actually has changed but in any case so I have I think we've made some progress so we had a first round of comments and then I tried to use these to change the draft resolutions and I you know and I and I kind of sorted all the the issues into two buckets one that don't seem so controversial where maybe you know I don't know that we're ready to just say yes that's it or if we just want to give people another week to go over I saw that Dan for one you know noticed that there was actually some you know for end-of-life related which is the first issue there are two proposed resolution and the second one is triggered by the maintainers yeah you can open that that's good thank you and you know it it seems to be to the deprecated status that we have in the project life cycle seems to be relevant but so I'm happy to give people another week to really make sure that they are fine with this before we put the TSE or we can discuss them now which is also fine with me and then we really need in any case to make we will need to make some real progress on the other issues which are in the second bucket some are obviously much tougher you know like sub projects we seem to really have two camps and you know we keep hammering the same points back and forth and I don't know that you know I was trying to figure out a way to make some progress I don't know how we're going to do that but so I apologize for the format of some of these comments they may be a bit hard to follow because every time we reformat reorganize all these issues and comments basically comments get lost so I make an effort to copy paste all the comments into one comment so at least you know I carry forward the carry over all the comments they're not completely lost it does kind of screw up the formatting and I spend a bit of time cleaning it up as much as I can but there's only so much you can do I was impressed you were able to carry the comments over it all so I think that's great yeah one thing I have to say I was disappointed at first I thought okay I should be able to copy the page it would have all the comments and then I can edit but no when you copy a page the comments don't get copied which I can see why but I wish there was an option you know you can say copy with comments or not but there's so I had to basically copy paste them and clean up and at least we have some history that's only in one place which I think makes it easier to to kind of see what other people have said so with that being said if you it's up to you then I mean you're we do have time so maybe we could discuss some of this and and assess whether they really are as I say or as I think you know that some of these are really not controversial and we can actually even have a vote and say yes let's go with this so I like how that you've you've broken it into those two lists I suggest that we take this coming week to finalize feedback on those first four issues one four five and seven and then let's take votes at our next meeting and then yeah and I would actually add the eight issue eight I think is is it turns out not so controversial I mean it just I just came around to trying to come up with the resolution and at least Hop seems to be happy with the proposed resolution we had a bit of back and forth the last night and and so I you know I have the feeling this might actually work the only part that's not so sure is this the the thing about the first major release but the rest I think is not that controversial and I think it's an important item an important issue which would be good to to you know get to the rest because it has to do with you know major project that will be coming in into hyperledger and what exactly do they have to go through and in short what this proposal you know is is to say they basically have to go through all the same steps but in fact if you look at the definition of the different steps there is no time aspect to it and if you happen to meet the criteria to move to the next step all at once at the on day one you can do that and I think it kind of guarantees that you know we're not trying to like we don't somehow miss you know or infringe so to speak on on the process we already agreed upon but at the same time we can be pragmatic about the fact that some projects are much more advanced on day one than others so I would you know I there's only been coming from hot on this so I don't you don't want to say oh yeah this is not controversial it should be in the least but I you know yeah if you could make heart happy then I don't know come on guys we know whose opinion matters here right and and the first major release I said kind of a bit quickly the same goes with the first major release I have to admit I haven't thought through this exactly so maybe this should be separated we should have resolution 8.1 and 8.2 or something like this so they can be tackled independently but 8.1 seems pretty cooked to me but for others feel that differently please let me know some minimal amount of time to be integrated into hyper ledger itself so maybe it's sort of mature outside of hyper ledger in the sense that it has some diverse contributors and maybe already has CII practices in place but it needs a little bit of time to get hooked into the community in the mail list the chat all that sort of thing so for me it's not quite a slam dunk okay I can I can add that as as text feedback after the meeting yeah let me see what else this is good feedback that's the kind of things we need to have obviously it's like you know people need to express themselves and whether they agree or disagree it's good to know if you say a plus one it's good enough but you know at least we know where you stand right and then you know obviously at the end we still want to bring those up to the TSC as formal proposal and you know I would vote but right and maybe if the subcommittee is not getting consensus on something we bring it back to the TSC yes absolutely eventually that's the only way yeah um you know so okay uh thanks for that update and then again everybody please review the the first batch of proposals and let's be ready to vote on those next week and then also at the same time it shouldn't take you much more time to look through the other resolutions and provide your feedback onto those and hopefully we'll be able to hit those on the following week yes uh I would hope so all right thanks Arnav um Mick is Mick on we're Mickless all right so I don't get to uh ask Mick about making progress on the working group but the next name I see on the list there is Mark Wagner so Mark um do you have some thoughts about getting the working group task force moving forward we I thought had just folded that all into the project stuff right it was the same issues basically I think there there's probably different issues we were having problems I think getting timely outputs uh work products um work products that people were excited about okay because I thought I thought that had got more or less moved under Mick because up top working groups is under Mick is it different down the bottom well I just went to the working group task force page and Mick is lifted at the top and then uh you vipin and rye so I was just putting you on the spot you don't have to have an answer but we haven't had any forward progress on this task force uh since basically it's inception it's because I need a vacation no can do are you going down the list yeah vipin do you have some thoughts yeah very practical stuff in terms of uh you know basically the fact that we are running working groups right now um the problems that we have faced are uh decreased decreased participation in working groups uh the six uh everything when they start seems to have a lot of enthusiasm and then it kind of drops off um you know working groups had a lot of uh enthusiasm but I must say that identity working group has uh sort of revived itself because of constant evangelization and uh having multiple uh times and so on so there has to be quite a bit of work done in order to sort of jolt uh you know the Frankenstein monster back to life yeah so maybe rather than than talking through what some solutions are right now think about what kind of actions the task force needs to get underway whether that's splitting out those questions like our no had done into separate resolutions to be revised and voted on or there's some other discussion process that needs to happen um but if the the three or four of you can get together over the next week and then have some sort of plan of action to uh to bring us up to speed on next week that would be great yeah sure um it is it is um you know um Mick had indicated that our work is sort of contingent in some ways on the uh and if he was here I would start to uh challenge that yeah question that yeah thankfully we only have four people on this rather than eight or something on the other other group because there's always you know multiplicity of views which is which is a good thing but right takes more time I know has managed to um unify those views and I agree with most of the most of the resolutions that he has made so your guidance on getting the similar kind of work done in this is good um but this is not a prescriptive thing it is it is a different kind of problem it doesn't necessarily need to have the same kind of resolutions or structure as the other task force we just need to see some sort of progress so that we're actually going to arrive at at a resolution the resolution uh as I said before is based on in contrast to the other other one which is you know more like okay this is how you do it uh this is more informed by practice anyway okay all right thanks uh next on the agenda we have the DCI working group proposal we discussed that at length last week and then took further feedback to the mail list there has not been subsequent dialogue and so I would like to move that we take this working group proposal to a vote at this point any seconds yeah I second this is Kelly I second that all right any objections right all right Dan I guess we're gonna do a vote yes um I will call out the names as we go here um Arno yes yes bawa yes bin yep uh Chris is not here Dan yes heart yes Kelly yes mark yes makes not here Nathan yes and Silas is not here all right there you go Dan all right well that's great congratulations to the DCI working group I think we will have our first meeting maybe in the next week um David other David has typically helped organize those and he is not normally available during the TSC meetings so but of course we will get things underway with a proper mailing list and chat group and so on and so forth and excited to get that moving forward after after several months in building up to this in terms of the DCI working group I offer up that entity working group as a test case for doing these metrics using chaos and we were discussing both rye and I were discussing how exactly to go about it okay do you have um all right well that's that's a great suggestion and and let's see if we can incorporate that into the the first meeting or maybe the first post to the mail list once we get that open learning by doing in other words yep okay um next on the agenda is the contributors summit uh I don't know that we have much to discuss here uh Silona had created or may have created some space for us there's a page that already exists and so I said that we could go ahead and take over that page which is right here I'll post the link in chat so Brian had sent an email or maybe it was in uh rocket chat that hyperledger was not going to be involved and I'm not sure of the extent of that is that setting the meeting up or is that just in the decision around uh sorry I didn't mean to drop just in the decision around location and date uh we just need y'all to figure that out um I it's just it's it's really hard to kind of try to coordinate different preferences and locations and um do that in a way that doesn't put us in the line of fire so once that's decided happy to support as best we can okay thanks I wasn't exactly sure where the line was yeah so I don't know Silona if there's an easy way to create like there's a little bit in in chat about that that I don't need to rehash but if there's a way to get uh a page up that we can start working through some of the opens that will help us so solidify that date other page for the contributor summit you don't want to use that page you want to wipe it and just create another or what were you looking for Dan um I was hoping to just get page that's specific to this proposal for october 1 and 2 uh I assume it would be some sort of child page off of this one when I looked at the bootcamp page there was like a list for previous and future events um I don't think it's critical that there's that kind of widget on this page to to get there but um that is no widget I do it by hand okay so if that's a pain I don't mind if it's there or not there um but just some sort of child page here where we can start discussing what people feel are open issues to be discussed with uh specific october 1 2 proposal so have we decided when and where it's going to be or are we figuring that out first uh so when I when I call one out some months ago for uh time in place the the suggestion was sometime in early fall and so I asked the I asked my company for space and what I got back was an offer of space at intel's campus in the portland area on october 1 and 2 so if there's other concrete proposals we can put those up but what has happened in the past is the possibility that there might be something a little bit better or a little bit different causes us to never actually land on a final place and location yeah I should note that the sovereign foundation has been working on a venue that someone has volunteered to donate that's here in the salt lake city area as well it seems to me dan like why don't we um throw up a page that has the various proposals and then we just send out a poll of the tsc mailing list uh so one thing to consider hi everybody it's marda is uh that we are looking at organizing the boot camp in moscow and the exact dates that were shared was where end of september beginning of october so we can try shifting that around the only thing is that moscow gets really cold very fast so i'm worried that if we have those two events in peril it will take away from both of them what we have more times sorry i didn't hear what event was that boot camp in russia try to navigate over that way so when i went out to get space for this time range i was following some guidance that i thought would have not involved uh conflicts with other events there there's always going to be conflicts and that that date is also like the the week of iiw which you know a lot of indy folks end up out in areas and that sort of thing so i i don't think it's possible to avoid conflict i think we just navigate the best way through it and probably some sort of poll is the best way to optimize for that um i'd say it's really important for the tsc uh participants to to you know try to find something optimal for them as well in the in the major maintainers on the on the projects um i don't know this is this is why it's hard to do right um but i think i think putting out a range of dates this early on like in the september october time frame and and uh and uh locations is about as good as you can do and everything else will kind of adjust i assume to further to echo what brian's saying and to add a little bit more to this i jumped in track that we actually successfully ran the vancouver boot camp on indy in parallel with the hong kong boot camp and they seem to both be huge successes so i i see marta's concern um but because they're on opposite sides of the planet from each other you know or likely will be i i don't think it's as big of a concern well they're okay yeah solana's pointing out they were not in parallel but they were like within a week okay two weeks yeah okay all right well i'm i'm gonna claim that since the uh the moscow one isn't on the uh the boot camp page that uh i'm taking first claim to october first and second for a hyperillager event but this is this is the sort of thing that um you know proved me wrong here anyway i'll still make the claim this is the sort of thing where we can never decide on on a date so i guess i'm i'm putting an offer out for october first and second at a facility that is already confirmed for us for free and we'll get the the page going underway for for that and hopefully we have strong enough attendance that it's worth everybody's time and if uh it will not be the only time that we do this i think it's great that there's space available from from offers from uh the indie team as well as mike at eccentric had said that space could be made available at their facilities and future dates too so let's just start to get going on a series of these so if you don't make the october one you know maybe we've got one in december or january and and so on i have to say then i appreciate your effort and i agree i and you know i get worried when you guys talk about scaling something for september my calendar for september is already so badly booked and and beginning of october is not great but i think i might be able to manage and and in general you know the kind of things that i totally agree with what you said earlier where you know we get thrown in a lot of well but maybe they can be done there or then and those things can stall us and then we get nothing which is by far the worst at least we should have deadlines about you know if you're thinking of making a proposal get it done by that date at that point we look at all the proposal and then we make a decision but we don't that way we don't get left hanging yeah thanks for that i don't know and as far as proposals for that event itself i'm sure it's a little bit early if we think about when how most of us do sprint planning to think that far out for what the specifics of an onsite project would be so i'm less concerned about getting the content shaped up for for that event as much as starting to get participation locked down so that calendars are are available for people and that we do eventually get face to face there and can work through things that that we wouldn't be able to plan for at this moment all right um moving on to the iroha update i noticed when i looked a little bit earlier this morning that we had not had a lot of tsc members get a chance to read through that yet if you have not read through that please try to get to that as soon as possible i don't see any questions posted to the page itself but it sounded like we had uh it's like sarah from sort of mitsu available to answer questions yeah we also have our like your project manager andre here who can also answer some technical questions like more technical questions so i think we'll be able to answer them and uh if like i can walk you through the update or maybe tell a little bit more about some of the points of the update so yeah we're here okay great um one thing that came to mind that i didn't post as a question was it looks like there's a lot of good intern engagement um for maybe a question to the community architects how are the the interns distributed around the projects right now um what do you mean by that dan i mean all the project proposals came from the community so it's a community driven effort we don't have any selection as to which the interns are working on which projects well we have some hyper ledger interns from the hyper ledger internship program and we also have uh some interns from enapolis university which is like a local university like it university and we are very proud that we managed to engage some of them into a development because these guys are like they're good and we're happy to work with that university and hope to probably expand our you know cooperation a little bit more uh later if that's somehow helps you with this question so yeah it's not all not all of these people are hyper ledger interns sarah that's that uh integration that we helped set up when i was there last fall right where we sat down i sat down with the professors that evening yeah well in a way now the thing is that they have like annual um um like annual internship programs so uh students have to take some internship programs and we just managed to get the best of them to work on a rocha through all the interviews and things like that but i think that yeah if everything goes well we might probably um find a way to work with the university a little bit closer they are very cooperative although they're not very active like you know they're not proactive so i just need to push them a little bit but um i think it's a good thing we also had a course on a rocha they basically had a like um additional course on blockchain and one of the maintainers of a rocha uh read read lectures about um about a rocha and uh that was actually very interesting some people created some applications on it and i think it's also interesting so we're working closely with the university might be i don't know maybe half of that you would like to also contact them somehow we'll be happy to help if you have any like ideas of how we could work with them okay that's great i think that um the fact that you've got good integration with your um local university uh seems like it's working out very well that seems like a good pattern if other projects can uh make similar relationships and then just going back to your answer dave earlier for the hyper ledger interns indy made internship or candidates made proposals towards indy or indy made um proposals that the interns selected is that what you're saying uh indy or a rocha what do you mean i'm sorry you're roha uh strike strike any instance that i said indy and replace it with roha so the roha team did propose several internships uh or one at least that i know of that was selected by the community and we fielded candidates and they selected one and that's actually the one question i had for sarah and andre is um that internship was about changing a roha to using ursa and i wanted to see if they would give us a very brief update on how that's going since it's a big part of our integrate our interoperability effort this year i think andre will help with that because he's working with the interns like directly so yeah yes sure um hello everyone so um well basically the the internship is going on uh well it's going on well uh i just had a call with uh well with alex right before the tsc call and uh well right now he was just fixing the tests uh well just your roha tests after after he integrated ursa into your roha oh sorry right and uh yes that sounds great well yeah and well he will he will open the pull request soon and we will have it running and uh well since he is a part time part time intern and uh he will work with us up until october i guess i will also have additional tasks for him for uh for backward compatible integration of orsa for the current code base so that uh current projects could could also use orsa in in their projects okay great yeah i one of the reasons that i brought it up is that just looking at at the kind of projects that they're working on that is really in line with some of the the cross project collaboration that we've been hoping to drive at the tsc and so i i think seeing progress along those lines is is really good yeah i think uh in the same vein i had a question around the web assembly uh plans i'm just curious are you using uh any of the you know sort of what are the plans there and how does that relate to either transact or um the sawtooth saber web assembly work it looks like you got a lot of great interrupt projects and i'm curious how web assembly fits in there i'm not sure that we have exact details about the integration but uh well we have another project in our company which is uh polka dot implementation and since they work with web assembly uh we hope to to learn to get some experience from them and well we can of course we can also consider the well they will check the integration that you mentioned for example the sawtooth one okay great thank you well i know not all of us on the tsc will be in tokyo maybe only about five or so of us um but i think some of the the contributors from it will be in tokyo and we don't always get a chance to meet face to face so i'll be looking forward to that any other questions uh for the team before we move on yeah i have one that uh curiosity do you have um the number on production deployment uh that that you could share i would address this question to sarah i'm sorry i did not really get the question the number of what sorry just couldn't be uh the number of production deployment um so company is actually making use of iroha in their production uh environment whether it's internal or external yeah i see so uh i can like uh you know i can uh show you of the project uh that we have in sora misto but people from the community are usually a little bit secret secretive about that but we've got uh for example a huge project uh working with wearable devices and that uh moved from some i don't know public blockchain uh framework i think to iroha uh to build their uh to build their back end uh there are also a few projects from like individuals but the thing is that we know people who are working with iroha building projects on them but they're not actually telling us anything about their projects because they're very secretive uh i know about uh that biocrypt project that's about the wearable devices uh and there's also a project medical project that is shown in uh blockchain showcase uh ikeo i think uh they're working with also some medical information i think but i can't say uh much more about about the exact project because we know that people are using things and we don't want to force them to share information about their projects because you know it wouldn't be very fair we just provide them help when they have questions and sometimes we do talk talk to them and you know sometimes they're ready to share like in case with the biocrypt um yeah but i know there are a few projects they're not actually like production ready the project themselves um some people told us that like it's okay because iroha is only like two months production ready and um some of the projects just started working on iroha after the production ready version so uh some of them are still in work but yeah we see a lot of engagement and it's good yeah that's a very common story with many of the stuff you know especially this early on so um but if there's anything that we can do this prime at at hyperledger to help um encourage people to talk about what they're doing you know help for to help you know retweet their tweets or or even get you know something on a blog post or something like that let us know be happy to help with that as a as a carrot you know as a encouragement for them yeah sure that will be great i'll talk to the people and yeah probably just write to report about those things yeah and people who started like contributing some new features working on the documents and proposals and that's kind of great i think that's that's also good all right well thank you for the update right well i think that brings us pretty much to the end of the agenda i wanted to point out for discussion next week we already talked about um taking some votes on the life cycle committee and seeing the at least the structure of the problems to be solved for the the working group um the working group task force and probably some report from the CICD committee the other thing that that sounded like a very full agenda for next week but we have been discussing from time to time the direction of the project pipeline and we'll probably want to get that discussion going sooner than later so if possible uh in the agenda for next week please bring your thoughts uh possible we'll discuss this so please bring your thoughts about the direction of the project pipeline to tee that up uh some discussions that have happened in the past sort of center around this idea of convergence and use of component level projects to make hyper ledger more cohesive and understandable outside of our uh sort of uh inside view of of uh hyper ledger baseball here hey dan the CICD report will land on the wiki and i'll be sending out an email to the tsc when that drops so to the tsc mailing list when that drops so keep an eye out for it there yeah hopefully i'll give us plenty of time to discuss before the meeting so that the discussion next week is minimal due to the full schedule great hey hey dan yes sir um the following week as you mentioned there'll be five tsc members i think in tokyo will we have a call oh yeah thanks for bringing that up um yeah it looks like we've got a bad split of of people to be face to face and not face to face um i'm in favor of canceling the the tsc meeting uh from the october 1st it might be august 1st sorry august 1st have that october date in my head from the other discussion uh so unless there's some strong opposition to canceling the august 1st meeting let's let's plan on on canceling that so that we can those of us that are in tokyo can focus on the other hyper ledger activities that will be going on see heart chiming in affirmatively to cancel the the meeting on chat uh i think the last order of business to bring up is uh sophia has sent a note to the mail list this morning with request review work products from her working group and uh so on on the list of things that that we'll be working on this week please also find time to give that a review it looks like that will leave us with about 10 minutes here for people to start knocking through some of these items also i have a announcement okay go ahead vipin um just announcing the first call of the capital markets thing took place this wednesday it's a new thing that has been launched and i urge people who are in that industry to participate okay there you go new sig available capital markets all right thanks everybody for your time and tsc members please do take the time available here to go uh run through all those items that we just uh mentioned all right thanks thanks yes boss new vacation for you closing out have a good one bye bye have a nice day thank you bye