 This week's episode is sponsored by Ryan at Change. If you are looking to get involved in e-commerce and bulk their successful online business, then check out my good friend Ryan, who I have been working with the last few years and attended many events and retreats all around the world spending time with members who are making some serious money. I have been promoting Ryan for a while now because I believe in what he does and not only has he helped and supported me, built my own businesses but I have seen first hand how he helps and supports his members, take their businesses to new levels and give them financial freedom. So if you are interested in getting into e-commerce and building successful online stores then message Ryan on his Instagram at ryan.com to join his winning team. You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. If you are interested in getting involved in e-commerce and bulk their successful online business, then check out my other social media platforms at ryan.com to find out who my latest guest will be. Thanks for watching. If you are interested in getting involved in e-commerce and bulk their successful online stores then message Ryan on his Instagram at ryan.com to find out who my latest guest will be. Thanks for watching. I got to say, I think it was one of his better ones. I think it was one of his better roles. He fit beautifully into that role as Lorenzo, you know. Before we get into it, no brother. I always like to go back to the start with my guests, get a bit understanding about you, where you grew up, how it all began. Okay. You're talking about the film and how I was... All right, back to the start of your life where you grew up. Oh, okay. Well, you know, I was adopted when I was four months old from Bogota, Columbia, from Italian, you know, like, immigrant Italian parents because they didn't think they could have kids. They had a miscarriage and then they looked to adopt. They saw pictures of different babies. They saw me, liked me and decided they wanted to adopt me. And I guess it's a very psychological thing because I guess the pressure was off my mom. She ended up pregnant with my brother, Vincent. So my brother, Vincent and I are nine months apart. He's born... I'm born August 30th, 1976. He's born May 12th, 1977. So my mom used to dress us like twins and stuff when we were kids. But I came to Yonkers, New York, which is about 20 minutes north of New York City. It's like right next door to the Bronx. They call it the sixth borough. It's like right there. Grew up in Yonkers, middle class, you know, always had a great childhood, great upbringing, a lot of positivity, a lot of good people around me. You know, we grew up in a predominantly Italian neighborhood. There was one Puerto Rican on the street next door. They're still there. But yeah, it was a good childhood. I was, you know, I was a good student in school. I always did well, but I wasn't good. My behavior wasn't good. I was always, you know, wanted to be the class clown and always being disruptive and getting in trouble. So because of that, I had got thrown out of a few schools. And then it was 10th grade. I had been thrown out of two schools. I was on my third school. I finished the year out. And it was that summer of 1992 that I heard about a film called Bronx Tale. They're like, oh, then he was making this movie and he's looking for a kid to play the son who's like around our age because I was like 16, 17. So it was like the talk of the town. Everybody was talking about it. And, you know, you would, oh, you know, Jerry, he got the part because they're using his aunt's store in the movie, all this, all this nonsense that you would hear. But it's kind of intimidating and it kind of deters you kind of, you know what I mean? Because it's like, like they talk about all these people that somebody has to have the part. And it's such a long shot that they would give somebody like me the part. So I was there that day on the beach, July 5th, 1992. I was discovered by a casting scout, Marco Greco. My brother called me out of the water because my brother got wind of what the guy was doing. He was handing out flyers, looking for a kid to play my character in the Bronx Tale, Colodro, the character of Colodro. And my brother automatically realized that it was perfect for me because I looked like Daniro. I, you know, studied Daniro. I used to, you know, watch his movies. So it was a perfect situation. I was on the beach, did some impersonations. The guy loved it. And then I got called down to New York City. Daniro's Tribeca Productions. Do you know what Tribeca means? No. It means triangle below Canal Street. Because Canal Street's here. And then this triangle, that's Tribeca. So just a little, little, a little fun fact. Yeah. So, so, uh, yeah. So I would go down there to drive back to productions. And the first day I went down, it was like, you know, 50 kids. And then the next day I got called back. There was less and then less and less and less. And then it got to the point was just me. And then, you know, at that point I had met Daniro. Uh, and we were working together on a daily basis. And he really liked what I was doing. And one day he said, I want you to dress like you're going to church. I want you to dress up nice. We're going to put you on camera. We're going to put you on film, do a screen test. Because it's different, you know that. You may look one way, but then on film you look different. Some people's features may be too strong and too pronounced. And then on film it's even more. You know what they say? Oh my God, you know, TV adds this much weight in film. So everything is bigger. So we did the screen test and that day is when I discovered that I was not the only person up for that role. It was also the kid who shot Sunny at the end of the film. But he was older. He was 21. I was 16. So it was kind of an easy decision for them. Not really based on who was a better actor, but who was more right for this character. What do we want from this character? I mean, you want the character to be a little vulnerable, a little naive. And I just got 16. It works better. You know what I mean? At 21, be a little bit more set in your ways. Like you're already, you already got to that point of the crossroads and like you already started going this way. But I think at 16 that didn't, that didn't happen yet. So we did the screen test that day. All the other different characters, you know, the finalists, they did all their different parts. And then it was me versus guy Phil Garberino, who's still my friend. I just talked to him. Can you imagine that was still friends? You would think this guy would hate me. He's still, when I was in prison, he used to come see me. It's a good man, Phil. I love that. Yeah. He turned to be a union electrician. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people would go, that, so there's no hate at all because that could have changed his life. Of course. Of course it did. You know, he even, he wrote something. He wrote something called The Guy Who Wacked Sunny. That could be pretty interesting because it's like, you never really, like, they don't make the movies about the guy. Oh, for the follow-up. Yeah. Yeah. The Guy Who Wacked Sunny. It's just too much of a classic, I think, to touch. Yeah. The way I would do it though, I would do a story of his character in the movie. Yeah. It would happen simultaneous to what would happen with the Bronxdale. That was like a good idea. But he could go, his character, his father got killed. Yeah. Remember? Mm-hmm. Put him on another side of the Bronx. And maybe like, you know, because, you know, his mom's got cancer. His father's dad, he's a star baseball player. And maybe he's missing all the breaks because he's got to take care of his mother. Mm-hmm. And that anger and that resentment, not having his dad's son, he killed him. And he didn't have a proper, you know, childhood. Mm-hmm. And he feels like a lot was stolen from him. You know what I mean? It may be like him and some other guy could smoke a joint and he can tell him the story about the father and why he was killed. And maybe even a couple of scenes, you see him walk up to the bar, like right to the corner, maybe look around the corner, stalk Sunny. And then that last day, I'm gonna go right in there and do what he did. And as he comes in, you see me. Remember, I saw him? Mm-hmm. But there was this one face that just wasn't smiling. But now he could, he's POV of me. Sunny. Sunny. You know what I mean? It could be interesting because think about it. He could be like the Joker and I'm Batman. Look how much money the Joker made. That Joker made more money than any of the Batman's. People like that because he's like the villain. But he's not really a villain. You know what I mean? I think it could be a cool little story. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. You're fucking sold it to me in two minutes. Yeah, because think about the pain. You know what I mean? Yeah, it makes sense. You know, the resentment. Like this guy's a somebody, man. He, you know, you saw him crying at the father's funeral. I was watching him through the window. That's powerful. That could have been my dad. It could have been your dad. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I mean, it's one thing he dies, but to know he got murdered in the street like that. That's something, that's a tough pill to swallow, you know? Yeah. But yeah, so we read that day. We went, you know, scene for scene. And then that was a Thursday. By Sunday night, they told me they wanted to see me. And then they decided to go with me, you know? I feel so big. Like sometimes I think about what he felt when they told him, we're going to go with the other guy, crushed him. I mean, it's not even like they could have gave him a part as one of the friends because he was too old. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. 21 and 16 is a big difference. When you're 47 and 42, it's not a big difference. But 16, you look different in the next year. You growl and everything changes. So he just, it's kind of like he really did get the short end of the stick. But he's such a good guy, still my friend to this day. Phil Garberino. And I wish him all the best. You know, he's got some stuff going on. But yeah. And then after that, I went and got myself an agent. And then I pursued my acting career. How was your partying before the Bronx too? Say again? How was your partying and stuff before? Was I partying? Yeah, before the Bronx too. Was it during Bronx too? You started smoking weed and shit? Yeah. That's when I started smoking. I started smoking with that kid, Phil. He drove me home one night and he had some weed in the car. I didn't know what it was. So he was like, oh, you want to try it? Yeah, I'll try it. So we tried it. I didn't get stolen that night. So then we smoked again on the set, but that wasn't really a party. Like, I mean, a little drinking on maybe a Friday night, two or three cold beers. I'd be drunk screaming and yelling and go to sleep. And that was it. But that wasn't a big deal. But the Bronx tale and the success of the film and just everything the way it played out, that was a big catalyst as to, you know, why I ended up where I ended up and so fast. It happened really fast. Did anybody ever tell you when it was blown up to just be careful and look out for the kind of devilish things around you? Or was it just unexpected that it would go so big? Well, you know, like De Niro told me, De Niro said, listen, you got to really be careful and you got to really, you know, there's going to be people going to be coming at you from all different directions. But I didn't really understand that. My parents couldn't really give me the right advice because they didn't have experience in this. What are they going to say? You know, just be good. That's all they would say, you know, but they don't know that Hollywood did, you know, just the nature. It's like the, you know, it's the nature of the beast. There's so much going on all at once. And then nothing's going on. You know what I mean? It's just like what just happened? You know what I mean? So it's like kind of it's a very emotional roller coaster being in, you know, being an actor and stuff like that. And I feel for so many actors, they base their worth on whether or not they're working. And I'm so glad for myself that I was able to discover something else that I love and that's helping other people with drug addiction and stuff like that. And to me, that's more rewarding and more gratifying. Yeah, it's great to do a film and you got a film coming out. But I always said, like, to me, for some kids parent to call me and say, hey, Lilo, you saved my son's life or my daughter's life. Thank you. I got my kid back. To me, that's more powerful. You know what I mean? But I think the fact that I do still make films and if I do become very successful once again, that can only help what I'm doing because people can look at that and say, well, look at this guy. He stayed the course. He's sober and doing the right thing. And he's got a career again. But that's the only reason why that happened was because he stayed sober and it shows with sobriety anything is possible. What was the feeling when you got the part, though? Oh, it was very surreal. I couldn't even really. The needle biggest actor in time. I couldn't even really grasp it. It was like, were you numb to it? Yeah, because I was 16. So everything I was not even 16. I was 15 going to be 16. Everything was happening so fast that it almost felt like it right like it was supposed to happen. But then it really all hit me when the film came out because that's when you see the when they know you're in the film. OK, they're going to start to treat you different. But when they actually see it, then it hits them as well. And then it's like, you got all these people coming out out of everywhere. I even had this one woman that tried to say she was my mother. I told you I was adopted. And this woman try to say she was going to my uncle's restaurant. My uncle rest in peace. My uncle sell. He had a restaurant in Armand, New York. And successful Italian restaurant called La Scala. And this woman and her husband used to go there all the time. And she saw the poster. And then she, you know, my uncle said, oh, this woman wants to talk. And she tried to say she was my mom. But it wasn't possible just because the years and the timing, it just didn't work out. It wasn't possible. But just goes to show what people will do. You know what I mean? When someone becomes famous. Yeah, it's crazy. Why do you think that film became one of the greatest of all time? I just think it has so much in it. I think it has a little bit, a little bit for everyone. It had the father son story. I had the love story. And had the mafia, the whole mafia element, which people love. And I think it was great that when they had Joe Pesci, because you don't know it's him. And then he comes back at the end. It makes you watch the film again. And so, you know, that was him when he remember, you know, so, so I just think it treated so many life lessons. There's so many. It transcends time. You could watch it 40 years from now. And the message is because there's not only one message. There's few messages in that film are going to still be relevant and are still going to apply to whatever time period we're in. So I think that's just the reason why the film is so. I mean, it's beautifully written, beautifully acted. And I think it was a great idea for him to go and cast unknown actors as opposed to doing it the Hollywood way, where there's nothing wrong with that. Because if I'm putting up, you know, that movie, that film costs like 15, 20 million. And that was a 92. That was a lot of money. You know what I mean? That was like the equivalent of like 50 or more, 50, 60 million dollars. But that's a big risk for someone putting up that kind of money. It's like you want to do this with unknown actors. You know, it's the actors. It's the names. Who put people in the seats. Oh, Tom Cruise. Oh, Johnny Depp, when they hear that they love, you know, they love these actors. So they're going to go see what they're doing. But now you have a film. Well, you had De Niro and he was making his directorial debut, but he wasn't the star of it. So now you want to ask people to come and see a film and pay for it with actors that we've never seen before. So that's kind of a gamble. But I think that it definitely, definitely worked out. What was it like? Was it a box office mask? Because I think the Shawshank Redemption, again, that flopped. And then when it came out on like videotape, it ended up again one of the biggest films of all time, one of the greatest. This episode is sponsored by Fire Away Pizza, the fastest grown pizza company in the UK with over 150 stores. With their fresh quality ingredients and unique pizzas, they will have you coming back for more. Use code james20 for 20 percent off. That's James 20 for 20 percent off. Yeah, no, it didn't do well. Box office. It did not do well. Why do you think that is? I don't know. I don't know. I just think maybe because of other than De Niro, that lack of a big name. You know, maybe I don't know. It came out in September. So I don't know. I really can't say I would think something like that. Like I know for if it was like for me, if I'm sitting there watching TV and I hear that Robert De Niro, oh, directorial debut. Oh, wow. Bronxdale. And it shows that little bit of the wise guy stuff. And I would go see it in two seconds. Yeah. So what happened after a Bronx till then was life going good because you're apparently one of the next Robert De Niro people were saying. You're the next big thing. Was that so much pressure on your life then or could you enjoy it any moment of it? You know, I didn't really care. I was a kid. I just wanted to go hang out and go to my high school prom and hang out with my friends at summer vacation because that happened so fast that I didn't really work for it. It just kind of happened that I didn't really. Appreciate it the way I should have. You know what I mean? So it was just like, I mean, if I could go back, but, you know, we can't do that. But, you know, everything I think worked out the way it should have. So you ended up as a Renaissance man with Danny DeVito and then you done Walt Smith in the middle of the state. That was a great film. Yeah. In the middle of the state. That was a great film. Yeah. In the middle of the state. Again, that could be stuff that's happening now. Yeah. With all the fucking madness in the government and all the bullshit. Yeah. You know that film, I wish I would have had a bigger part. That was the same director from Crimson Tide. That was Tony Scott. So he just offered me that role. He said it's a small thing. You come, you know what I mean? They paid me well. They took care of me. And Tony, you know Tony Scott, right? Yeah. He's a British guy. He was a brother of Ridley. Tony, I think, jumped off a bridge. He had inoperable brain cancer. One of the best guys, one of the best people in Hollywood I have ever met. And I'm sure a lot of other people will say the same thing. Tony Scott was a great guy. And I know for a fact, if he was still alive, he would work with me at this point. Because he was just that kind of guy. You know, and I remember my cousin. He was involved in the Fulton Fish Market back, you know, just big in New York City, and it was like that whole organized crime element. And I remember my cousin was telling him stories about that. He was like really fascinated. He's a good guy, Tony Scott. And when I saw him, he goes, oh no, not you again. He said, oh no, not you again. But he offered me to role. You know, he he he he he asked how my dad was doing. Because when I did Crimson Tide, I was only 17 turn 18. So I needed a chaperone. So he remembered my dad. And he was such a respectful good man. I hope that his family is OK. And I hope they would able to like bounce back, you know, as well as possible. Sad that. Yeah. How was Denzel Washington? Oh, it's a great guy. I watch his interviews and the words of wisdom he's got as well. You just know he's on it. He understands life. For me, when you watch him, he just seems like a good guy you would want to spend time with. Same as De Niro. They just, they encourage people off camera. Sometimes you get it wrong, but sometimes you go. You just know when you meet him off camera, he's going to be stand up guy. Denzel, he's he is filled with wisdom. He said, life is about two things. Commitment and consistency. Without commitment, you'll never get started. And without consistency, you'll never get finished. You'll never finish. And that's wow. It's like, it's real. Yeah. You got to be committed, right? And to start and then to finish, you got to be consistent. But, uh, I love him as a person, as an actor. He was, he's from right next door. He's from Mount Vernon. It's a neighboring city to where I'm from. I'm from Yonkers. He's from Mount Vernon. So, like, you know, we're very, like we knew he knew where I was from. I knew where he was from. So we would like tell stories and stuff like that. And, uh, yeah, Denzel Washington's great guy. Love to work with him again. But the names you've worked with and been around Walt Smith, Denzel, Washington. Cancel Feeney. Some of the greatest actors of all time. Sopranos. Yeah. Fucking hell, man. Yeah. The big Tony Soprano. For me, the Sopranos is the best show. Again, they're not trying to blow smoke up your ass, but a Bronx Tale Sopranos. I love that sort of stuff. They're amazing. They just, the way they handle themselves, the way they walk, the way they talk, the acting, the production, the clothes, everything, the cars. Sopranos was unbelievable. You know, because it's like at that point in time, that type of, how are they going to come out with a new show? They're going to keep a fresh, new, interesting, but not lose authenticity. So, I'd read for that first, I'd read for the first season for Brendan Fallone, the kid who gets shot in the eye in the bathtub. I didn't get the part. They didn't even know if they were going to get a second season. They didn't even know if the show was going to be that big. But when I saw the coming attraction and I saw Gandal Feeney, because I knew him from Crimson Tide. Remember, he had a small part. He said, this show's going to suck. This show's going to suck. It's going to be on two, three episodes. And boy, was I wrong. It's one of the best, one of the best shows ever. You know that? I liked, I liked The Wire and I like Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad to his class. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some amazing shows now, but for me, the Sopranos, that's the best. He played an amazing part, man. He played it to a tee. Without him, that show. He was like a tour de force. Like he was on a different level. He took that because he looked like what those guys look like. You know, like, sometimes you see these actors, they make them look so good. It's almost like a caricature of what they are supposed to be. But then you got Tony Sopranos, bold, fat. That's real. He seemed like a guy. Tony seemed like a guy that would smash your face with his fat. He looks like the type of guy. He was so believable in that role. And I wish they would have, I wish they would have made the movie. You remember how they made the answer? Why does it not work? They did the many saints of Newark. Yeah, it wasn't, yeah. Yeah, but you need a you need a Gandolfini. Mm-hmm. They need a Gandolfini in there. Okay. You know that's a play on words, right? Mm-hmm. The many saints of Newark. Do you know what that means? No. Okay. So what was that? It's a play on words. Okay. Okay. Multi means many saints. Mm-hmm. So they're from Newark. So that's why the title's called the many saints of Newark. The multi-santies. Multi means many saints. Multi-santi, many saints. Mm-hmm. So when I heard that, I was like, all right, cool. This is probably going to be good. It didn't tell me enough. I didn't learn, I wanted to really learn where these characters came from and how they came to be. And I don't think that film was that, it wasn't informative enough. I've seen the trailer for it and it looked good, but I was just disappointed with it because Sopranos was just exceptional. So to have any sort of success where it had to be better, had to be just as good or better. Right. But it was just nowhere near it because Sopranos was so good. Well, you know, you got very big shoes to fill. Yeah. Sopranos is very big shoes to fill. So the only way they could have made that I think is you needed Gandolfini. You were missing that, that whole piece. He is the Sopranos. You know what I mean? He is the Sopranos and I'm so glad to have worked with him before he was, you know, like people even know who he was. Because when people bring that up, I'm like, yeah, I knew him from like, you know, I was a little kid because I was like 17 years old. How did you handle the fame? I didn't handle it well. You know, I didn't have experience. I got caught up in the, you know, the fast life and the night life and then I made so many bad mistakes and so many bad choices. So in one word, how did I handle it? Horribly. You know. What was your circle of friends like? Leaches? No, I mean, I had my friends that I grew up with. Yeah. That, you know, that they did tag along but not, I don't want to say tag alongs, but they were my friends and even though they would have been my friends without the movies. Yeah, their day ones. They would have been, yeah, they would have been my friends no matter what, but they enjoyed the ride of it because they were always good friends to me, the guys I was always around. But then you do get those leech type people that start, you know, because that kind of, once they see you in films and stuff, that kind of, that whole, you know, that kind of, that element, it kind of like gravitates toward you and people just don't know how to help themselves and they'll do everything, anything. You know what I mean? To just ride your coattail and stuff like that. But it's like, they'll give you, you know, give you drugs and this and that thinking and you're thinking, this guy's all right. Look what he's doing. He's giving me all this and everything's cool. But they're doing it just because they know you're young. They know you're vulnerable and they know if this stuff, they give you this stuff, they'll be able to control you a little bit better. That's the bottom line, you know. When did your leaf start to slip though? When did you start missing additions or did you still handle it? Because when you're young, you know your tolerance is quite strong. So you can fucking still wink. Wake up the next day and go right to work. Yeah. I would say, you know what? Because I started, you know, at like 18 with the cocaine and stuff like that. That even like 22, like, because I went so hard by that 22. I was already like, pshh. My mind was half gone because I would experience that paranoia and that stuff still, it's still part of the way my brain is wired to this day. I still get paranoid and weary of people. Like, why is that guy doing that? And that's all because of those nights being paranoid. I would say like in my early 20s is when I started to lose control, started missing auditions and stuff. So it was like, it was like six, seven years of just, you know. Because Spielberg came calling, saving Private Ryan for an audition with you. Is that correct? Yeah. I didn't have the part, but you know, he wanted to meet me. Steven Spielberg wanted to meet me for the Vin Diesel role. And he was in New York. You know what I mean? He was in New York. So he was like, you know, 25 minutes from where I lived and I had an appointment with him in the room. And I did Coke the night before, which I knew I shouldn't have, but I said, oh, no, I'll be all right by the morning. And I missed it. And I missed it. And, you know, I mean, like, it was like, you know, the first 10, 15 minutes of that following was unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. Right in the beach. Yeah. That's probably one of the best scenes of fucking old time as well. That's unbelievable. And the Oscars, that one as well. Because you've already started world-class films and programs anyway, but does that play in your mind or do you think, even if you got that part of the enhancer stardom, and you might have been fucking dead because you just went totally nuts? I think it happened the way it was supposed to because my fame would have heightened, would have went to a new heights. And, you know, my personality is my personality. That doesn't change. I got that very addictive, you know, personality and, you know, I'm just, you know, not that someone lost their life, you know, in which I'm sure we're going to talk about, but I wouldn't change a thing other than that part because someone did lose their life at the hands of my addiction. But I'm content. I'm happy. I could, you know, go to sleep at night and I could wake up with my, you know, I'm proud of who I am, what I've become. And, you know, yeah, listen, you know, some, you know, I made some very bad mistakes in the past and bad choices and, you know, you see some of the consequences of those bad choices, but I don't think we should be defined by that. I mean, if you're still doing the same thing, you made bad choices and you're still making them, then you can kind of be defined by that. Like this guy's this, this girl, you know what I mean? But I think that I've worked really hard to show the world that I am not what people thought I once was. And, you know, I'm happy. Yeah. You're looking fresh. Listen, the talent will still be there. Do you know what I mean? You're doing amazing. Anybody changes fucking hard. It's difficult. It doesn't matter who you are, what sort of fame and money you have. It doesn't matter if you're homeless, a billionaire. People struggle. People are always, you don't know what's around the corner. We can end up getting high tonight. Right. You're absolutely. You just genuinely don't know. We've all got those triggers. I like to believe everything's in control, but I think about the pressures and stresses of life. I don't fucking sniff here and there, but. Oh, you want to recover yourself? Yeah. I'm six years, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Drinking drugs, gambling. So I know. Oh, you like to gamble. I wrote a fucking, I wrote a screenplay. Yeah, you can swear, bro. You can swear. My character's, my character's a gambler. Yeah. But it's half. It's addiction, man. That's a hidden addiction. Yeah, of course it is. If you're on the other stuff, you can't really hide that for so long. The gambling you can hide. My mum always knew when I was gambling because I would get angry. She said you were gambling again. I used to fucking lose my head and say I'm not, but you just lying to yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything's a lie. Yeah, yeah. And don't get me wrong, this is a miss. As much as that fucked up life was, a certain part of me still misses that because that James never gave a fuck because it was selfish. There was a weird, it's a weird thing. There seemed to be, even though I was in pain, the stuff that I'd done made the pain worse, but it was a time where it numbed the pain for a few hours a day when you become straight and try to do the right things. You're in constant fucking pain, you're just handling it better. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you're absolutely right, dude. You never know what to fuck. Yeah. Like we can go out there right now and like fuck everything up. Yeah. It takes one second, takes that one second, all that work that we put into this, it's out the window. Yeah. It's like a reputation, right? Yeah. I think a whole life to build a good one and then when you tell this guy, fuck you one time, it's gone, right? Yeah. How many times have I put you nuts? You cheap fuck. Because Matt, when I was only coke, valium, weed, vodka, but you seem to have done everything. What sort of stuff were you taking? Well, I tried meth, I never really liked it. I used to snort heroin and I smoked crack. That was my niche. That's what I liked the best. Yeah, why snort heroin? Why not smoke it? Or shoot it? Yeah. But shooting it's just a different level, but I don't know people who snorted it. I know people used to put it in joints sometimes. Yeah, well, nah, when you snort it, I think when you smoke it, I think you waste it. Even when you're smoking out of the tinfoil. Yeah, Tracy Dragon. Yeah, yeah. I just think that it's a waste. Snorting it's like coke. You get the drip and you know, I was too vain and that's why I never put it in. Because people always tell me, do you waste all this money? You could go get like fucking two bags and shoot it and you'll be good. But I just couldn't see myself putting that needle in my arm. I would have. I know if I would have stayed on the street and I wouldn't have gotten in trouble. Eventually I would have. Oh, you're dead then. Everybody does. Nobody thinks they're going to get to that point. But they do. That's the bottom line. I see a lot of weed smokers turning to heroin. They just don't get that hat anymore. What, weed smokers? Yeah, turn to heroin. Just don't get that hat. See, weed's like a tricky thing, you know, like, it can be a gateway the first time around but I think if you've already been and entered the belly of the beast, I think weed can have the opposite effect because it gives you consequential thinking, something that addicts lack. We don't think consequences. We think about consequences after we already got high. Not before, right? Like a normal person, right? Right or wrong. But I just think that, that marijuana, I don't indulge myself. I don't do it. It's the same. I was 12 years on it. You know, but, but. I, you know, I work at the, you know, more life recovery, the rehab, the touch in New Jersey, and we do allow that. We're like one of the first in the state of New Jersey to allow that. And I don't think it's got, I think it's gotten some pretty good results. You see some of these kids, they get off psych meds. It just keeps them, it just slows everything down. They know. I don't think weed is going to bring them back to that. To the bad stuff. If anything, weed slows everything down, just a millisecond. To where you have, where there is a higher probability, because everything is slowing down, that you have that tiny, that drop more time to make a better decision. I don't think it's a bad thing. I mean, if you're smoking all day and sitting in bed and eating and stuff, yeah, and you're taking your ambition, that's a different story. But I'm saying, I'm not a proponent for it, but I'm not. I'm just saying, I don't think it's the end of the world. If I had kids and that's all they did, I would be fine with that. There are so much drugs out there. It's benefits. Even talk about MDMA and fucking ketamine and so much shit where it can help the brain. And so for me, I'm not promoting fucking drugs for it by all means. Do you know what I mean? It's not my style, but as long as people are okay in life and people want to do what they want to do, but for me, it's just trying to do things as naturally as you can. And then, but again, everybody's struggles and battles are different. What was the worst drug you took? I probably say the crack, crack. Even though people think meth, meth is not as crazy as crack because with methamphetamine, the dopamine receptors, they stay open. So it's like you stay high. You could stay tweaking, but with the crack, they close. So it's like you need more. So I think because of that, you know what I mean? And that constant chasing for that next hit where meth, it's not like that. I think the crack was the worst because it's a very violent drug. People will do whatever for that next hit. I've seen the places that it brought me to. Heroin didn't bring me to bad places like that. And just the people you're around, you're like giving a guy a ride. He's robbing your CD case, who's going taking your phone out of your car while you're driving. It's just bad. So I would say probably crack. Is that the most expensive one? It doesn't seem expensive because you're buying, like $10 little hits, but you got to keep going and going and going. So yeah, I would say it's... When did you ever look at yourself and think, fuck me, where's my life gone? Because I used to get high, like I say coke for four days, vodka just an end volume to kind of suppress the feelings. But I used to look at myself sometimes and think, fuck me, you're a mess. But I always believed, I used to sit and get high with everybody and used to get full of coke. But I used to sit there and think, look at the fucking state of all yous. I used to judge them and think yous are a mess. But I was a mess. But I always knew that I would make changes. I always knew there was something internal that wasn't always going to last forever. And I don't know, I was just trying to convince myself because I used to look at myself and I hated who I'd become. I was in my 30s and I just, I hated it. I didn't like the potential I had as a kid to then just fucking waste in my life. You know? It was horrible to jibber. Look at you. It was a moment you looked at yourself and thought. It's scary because it's like, in the beginning, we actually think that we have a little control because we don't know what this is yet. Right? It seems like a recreational thing. We do it on the weekends. But then we start to discover we're not like everybody else because they stop, right? They're getting married. You know, this guy's like, they're making changes. Like they're going to, they're leveling up. Okay, they did this already. We're still doing it. And then we say, maybe this is a little worse than I thought. And then before you know it, it's like your life becomes unmanageable and it consumes your every thought, right? Every thought is like, where am I going to get more? It's just a horrible way to live. And that's why I've dedicated a big portion of my life. They're like, hoping people don't go down this road. It's like, trust me, you've been there. I've been there. We're telling you and it's not going to end up good. I laugh because I'm surprised I'm still here. I just fucking love that. Like people used to, like you say, people at 28, 29, they kind of make changes and grow up. I kind of inherited my nephew's friends. They were like 23, 24, because they were just mad as fuck. So I went back kind of five, six years because I didn't want to grow up. I didn't know what the fuck I wanted to do. So we just used to go travel, Spain, Ibiza, but then it was prisons that was fucking just everything was enhanced. But the thing is, I probably laughed more in that period of my life. I fucking laughed. I've become more serious. Everything's kind of serious. Every conversation I have with people is kind of serious or I'm trying to change their life or I'm trying to give them advice. There's not as much laughter. I've noticed the laughter goes as I'm making changes, because I used to fucking love having a right good laugh. Because I was fucking high and I didn't know what the fuck was happening, but it's mad how we intoxicate myself and hide from pain though, isn't it? It's just crazy how our bodies are the most expensive piece of machinery on this planet. We'll clean our house, we'll clean our car, but yeah, we'll fucking put coke, our heroin, our crack, our weed, our valium. Take care of our car, right? Wash it twice a week. People fucking snort heroin, smoke and crack. Freaking killing our liver with all the liquor, drink a bottle of vodka. How much were you spending a day? Oh, am I worse? I would say like, I was spending 7 to 800 a day, because I'm spending $200 on heroin, 20 bags just to snort, just to be normal, and then I was smoking like about $500 a crack a day. Probably more, some days more, but I would say on the average, just a lot of money, you know? Yeah, see, I was never that extreme. I always had mineswells, the gambling was my main one. I gambled everything, lying, stealing, cheating, done bad things to get the money. That was the worst, but the things I used to do to get that money to fix that habit will fuck me as bad. Gambling's bad, but like I say, it's the hidden addiction. You can hide from it, but it's the anger, it's the frustration, it's the, why am I still staying in my mum's house in my 30s, and fucking, you get angry with yourself that you're not doing anything with your life, so then you get full of... No progression! Yeah, so that's when you then turn to drinking drugs, because it numbs the pain, and you pretend that you're happy, but nobody sees you when you're sober and you're crying into your fucking pillow. It's mad. So see, because you did you not jump out a car and get paranoid as well and split your skull. Yeah. You ever get paranoid like that? Yeah, I still get paranoid. I get paranoid when I'm sober. Yeah. Yeah, I get like that too. Somebody under that, and that would be like two days doing this shit in a room like this, in a motel, just, you know what I mean? Yeah. But at least we got some good stories to tell, all right? Yeah. Right? There's one thing that we could positive, that we could get out of, take out of that, you know, that madness. We got great stories. We got probably better stories than, you know, the next guy, you know? How was it jumping out of the car though? Do you think cause you were high, you saved your life? Yeah, and drunk because I just went with the fall. I mean, at that point, I thought it was the best thing possible because I thought I was going to die. So I thought this is the only way to save myself. But these guys were my friends. They're not going to do that to me. But you know, when you're like that, you take this crazy shit, you know? So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm laughing because I know how I understand it. People are paranoid. I've had friends pull out guns and knives because they think people are talking about them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're thinking, what the fuck? What are you talking about? Yeah. I see the kid, he passed away, my friend, Angelo. I see him getting paranoid before I ever got like that. I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? Dude, there's nobody there. Stop looking, please. And then when I started getting like that, then I said, oh, wow, I know why, you know? Yeah. But did anybody ever say to you, you know yourself, you never listen anyway, because we feel as if we know everything when you're an addict, nobody, you're too ashamed or too much pride, but because of the talent you had, the opportunities you had, did nobody ever say, look, your fucking heads up your ass. Like, come on, look, times, time for change. Did nobody ever try and... Yeah, plenty of people, but they just never listen. But you know, when I got in trouble and that was in Rikers Island, New York City Jail, I had overdosed on heroin and morphine, and I got a visit from my friend Corey and my cousin Pat, they were attorneys. And they told me that day, like, we're not going to support you anymore. You know, you're overdosing, people trying to support you and trying to get you past this. That day, like, I've been told this a million times, but that day for some reason, it just sunk it, you know? So present time, the night that changed your life forever, you were high. I think you tried to break into your house, your friend. Well, I didn't try to break in. I tried to get the guy's attention, so I broke his window, but I wasn't trying to break in. If I was trying to do that, I wouldn't have made all that noise. So what happened then? So you've tried it. You smashed the window, and then an undercover copper pulls up. Well, he wasn't undercover. He was off duty. He lived next door. He came outside. I guess to see what was going on. I was leaving by that point because I couldn't get the guy's attention. As I'm walking away, I heard a male voice say, Don't move! That's when I turned, and that's when I started getting shot. So he's just started shooting you? That's correct. And then you've ran, and then the friend you were with, who was the friend? I was with my ex-girlfriend's father. His name was Steven. Armando. Was he an upcase? Yeah, he was nuts. And he killed the copper? Yeah. And he got shot, what, seven times or something? He got shot anywhere from six to nine times. I know he got shot several times, so. When did you wake up and realize the damage, what damage had been done? A couple days later, I woke up in the hospital after having, you know, my spleen removed, part of my colon. Then I remember there was a doctor. He bought me the newspaper, and he said, you proud of yourself? Look, you killed the cop. What's that moment going through your mind? Is that the worst moment of your life? Yeah, because I always thought to myself, you know, maybe one day it's like my worst nightmare. I'm going to wake up in a jail cell and someone's going to be dead and it happened. That's kind of what happened. Instead of being in jail, so I was handcuffed to the hospital bed. But I just couldn't believe, like, where am I? Addiction took me that someone's dead now because of this, you know. But they say cop and stuff like that, but that doesn't make it any better or any worse. It's a human being who lost his life. Yeah, but as much as it's a heartbreaking story, it's a sad story, you never killed him either. Do you know what I mean? But whose idea was it to go to the house? My idea. Does that play in your mind that it was your idea, but yet he ended up... If you never went with that idea, then he's not going to be there. But again, hindsight and all that, you can never change it. But does it play in your mind? Well, of course it does. And yeah, he had a gun unbeknownst to me. But if he was there, I was there. And he had the gun. I don't... Nothing would have happened other than a broken window because eventually we would have realized the guy's not there and we would have left. I mean, he killed the police officer, but the police officer shot him first. I'm not saying that it was right in either way, but as a normal human reaction, if you have a gun, whether it's a police officer or whether it's a civilian, if someone's shooting you as a normal human reaction, you're going to shoot back, right? What do you feel, Dave? You know, so... It's just a terrible thing all the way around. You know, his family, of course, him dying. My family, what they went through. My dad needed a heart transplant and he's dead now. So, you know, it was a terrible thing on both sides. How long were you in hospital for? In the beginning? Yeah. Only a few days. Were you in a coma? No. I was on life support maybe the first day and then I got better. Like I said, they took my spleen out and stuff like that. But we got there December 10th and I was in the hospital the 10th until probably the 19th. And then the 19th is when they moved us to Rikers Island. What did the media do? Is that a field day for them? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because they already like what a cop dies and gets killed. That's already a big story for them. But then when, you know, it's at the hands of an actor that people know in an iconic New York classic film. It was big for them. It was definitely a big story. So what happens when it goes to quote, what are you charged with? Are you charged with culpable or house breaking? Are you charged with murder? What are you charged with if you get shot? I got charged with felony murder. It's murder of the second degree felony murder because it was in the commission of a felony. What sort of sentence would you look for that? That would have been 25 to life. What? 25 to life, yeah. Because it's like felony murder means you attempt to commit and you commit in furtherance or in immediate flight there from a felony. So that means if we go rob a store and some old lady's in there, she has a heart attack because she's afraid. That's felony murder. You killed her. Even though she just died of a heart attack, you didn't even touch the lady, but because you're robbing the store and it caused her to have a heart attack, that's felony murder. So it's the same thing as you shooting her. You're going to go to, if they find you guilty of that felony, you're going to jail for felony murder. What you're thinking then? Wouldn't have charged you with that? I didn't even know it was a charge. I wasn't well versed in the law and all that. I've never been in trouble like that to where I had to look up these charges. So I'm thinking to myself, I'm charged with murder? How? I didn't even have a gun. He got shot. I didn't have a gun. I didn't kill him. And then like, oh, well, it's felony murder. I was like, oh, wow. Then I realized this is serious. It was already serious because somebody died but the fact that they were charging me as a murderer, that was scary. And it was also charged with burglary. Yeah, you can, you can accept that window. Yeah. I mean, if it looks like, because it's like, yeah, it's a broken window. You got drug addicts, but that's all like a lot of that circumstantial because think about it. Okay. We're drug addicts and we broke a window, but does that mean we're actually robbing? By breaking the window, could we have maybe not been trying to get the guy's attention or other things? So you're saying that the broken window only means burglary? No. You know what I mean? Yeah. So when you're in prison, then going through that, were you still getting high? Or were you trying to get your head sorted? Where's this? In prison. Were you still... In the beginning, I was still getting high. I got, I got... What was your paranoia like in yourself? You're not fucking... I was snuffing and sniffing and taking morphine. So it's no paranoia. I loved it. You're not out on the dope and itch. And just used to, you know what I mean? Yeah. But it kind of took, like you were saying, like, you know, your life's going nowhere and you're fucking in my mind. It's definitely not going anywhere. I think I may be in jail for the rest of my life. So it was a tough pill to swallow. So I had no part in it. But I was taking these pills and starting this just so I didn't have to feel the pain of that of my reality, of my current reality, which was facing life, you know, incarcerated, which was, you know, it was very painful. Were you ever suicidal? No. Because that's a heavy one. High on drugs, lost your career. Yeah. In prison for a cop killing. It's a lot. Yeah. And that was shot up when it happened. You know what I mean? I was coming off heroin, so it was everything. That was a lot. When was the moment you decided, okay, enough's enough. I'm going to get clean. When I was an attorney visit, my friend Corey and my cousin Pat, when they came to see me in the box when I had a dirty urine. And that's when they told me, we're not going to support you anymore if you keep doing this shit. And for some reason it just like clicked, like, oh, maybe I shouldn't do this. Because you overdosed in prison, you says? Yeah. What was jail? It was because the difference between jail and then I went upstate to prison. But I was in jail. Yeah. I overdosed November 12th, 2006. What was that like? It was scary because it's not like you're home. Is that the first time you've ever overdosed? No, I overdosed before that. I overdosed like twice before that. You know? But that one was bad because it's like, you know, like I'm not in enough trouble and then this happens. It was bad, you know? I got questioned. New York City detectives come down. They wanted to know what was going on. It was a big investigation because it's like, this guy's a high profile inmate and he's getting drugs and fucking overdosed it. What are you guys doing? How are you doing your job when this guy's doing this? So it was, they really wanted to get to the bottom of it. What weight were you? What weight? Your weight? What, am I worse? Yeah. 132. Right now I'm like 170, 180. 170, 175. Oh, yeah. It was like 132. It was bad. Have you got photos? You can send me them if you ever do. Maybe I might have one from my old ID picture. Is that at your lowest then? Yeah. In prison, charged with murder, overdosed, fucking can hardly walk, you've been shot up. Yeah. Man, it's fucking, that's a film. That's a movie. Yeah. In itself. Yeah, yeah. High profile actor, addicted to drugs, fucking involved in a court killing. Yeah, that's absolutely a movie. Prison. You know what it is? I don't want to anger. I don't want to anger the family. I want to do it at the right. Yeah, I get that. You know? I mean, I don't have any more obligation to them. I even, I even won the civil case and the preponderance, you know, that's the burden of proof is much lower. So that should speak volumes about how I was not guilty of anything. Because when you plead a civil case, I mean, it's only, they only got to find you liable 51%. It's by the weight of the more reliable evidence by preponderance of the evidence. So the more reliable evidence said that I was not guilty. You know, so hopefully people see it that way. So prison and jail in America, you says it's not the same. What does that mean? Well, jails, when you're awaiting trial or whatever, and then once you get sentenced, then you go to prison, you know, like a holding, you know, when they have you holding, that's jail because that your case just the same. Yeah. That was just the same. I was there for three years being held before trial because I had a co-defendant. We didn't want to go to trial with him. So he went first, then I went. It was three years later. Then I went upstate for another five years. Did you get a deal or anything offered to you? No. Well, yeah, I did get a deal for my cooperation of three and a half to nine. That was way in the beginning. And I didn't want to take that because, you know, it's like I bought this guy to that house. If it wasn't for me, he wouldn't have done that. You know what I mean? I bought him to the place. So I said, hey, I was, you know, a big enough boy to make the decision to go there that night. And I just said, you know, whatever's going to happen, it's going to happen. I'm going to go to trial. So they offered you a deal to come against him. Three and a half to nine for cooperation. I didn't take that. And then before trial, they offered me 15. And for you getting sure? Yeah, 15 years. And my lawyer, Joe Takapina, he said that he thinks we got a really good shot at beating it, which we did. And that I shouldn't take the plea bargain. A lot of people would have because 15 years is 15 years. You know what I mean? You got it. You know you're coming home. There's a date on some piece of paper somewhere that is saying you'll be home on this day. People like that. Because when you don't know, when you got like a 25 to life and you got to go in front of a parole board and you don't know if they're going to let you go home or not, that's kind of sucks. What was it like going through the court case and seeing the police officer's family? Uh. Was that hard to see where your addiction kind of took you? Yeah. Well, it was his mom and dad. They died in the beginning of broken hearts. That was really hard. When I saw the picture of the funeral on TV and I saw his father in the front crying, that really affected me. Because he was an old school guy like my dad. It looked like it could have been my dad crying for me. And this guy lost his son. So it's very serious. So how long did the trial last? My trial was about a little over a month. Were you nervous? Oh, yeah. Because you could potentially still be in? Yeah. It was very, very... I could have gotten convicted of murder and been away still. So what happened then? What was the final... So the guy who killed the cop, did he... He got still guilty of murder in the first degree. So could have no self-defense or anything like that? No, he... Because it's a cop? Well, that's why they... There's not going to be a fair trial as well. Well, that's why they gave him a murder one conviction. The murder one because it was a member of law enforcement. Yeah. He got natural life without the possibility of parole. Who shot first? The cop shot first. So how... He came out and said, don't move. And that's when I moved. And that's when he started shooting me. Scary though. Yeah. So he get... So when he gets found guilty, does that not make you even more paranoid? Because one's already been guilty? No, I think it... Oh, did that help you? It helped me. Because if he get away... Now they don't want blood as much. They got some already. They know that's the guy that did it. So anything to them more would be a bonus. But they got what they wanted. But they didn't want me really bad. They wanted to put me away forever. And I don't think that's fair. I didn't shoot the guy. Why? Because it's a cop. I got to go away forever. I was a drug addict. I changed my life. I turned my life around. I help other people now. But the fact that they were trying to put me away forever. I think that was a little too much. For the amount of time that I should have went away for. It was the perfect amount of time for me to turn. But we went through a lot, my family and I. And they made it out that I was the killer for all those years. The other guy, they don't even know his name. Because newspapers don't get sold. They get sold, you know what I mean? So I remember one time I had a potential book deal. That didn't go through because the publishing company thought I was the killer. And it's like, it's not cool. So when you go to court, what was the verdict? Do you go out? He's not guilty of murder in the second. The guy was found guilty of attempted burglary with serious physical injury to a non-participant. So the sentencing guideline was three and a half to 15 years and I got 10. For smashing a window? Yeah. Well, that's to say it was a burglary that ended up in a death. Well, that's a big aggregate. Yeah. Big aggravating fact. God dressed the man so by all means. Do you feel as if it's a bit injustice as well? Or did you feel as if he deserved that? But 10 years is a bit much for smashing a window. You get shot. What happens if your father-in-law never killed him and it was just during you get shot? Do you feel as if you would have get compensated? Oh, I would have sued. Yeah, of course. Why are you shooting me? Why are you shooting me? Because I'm on drugs. I don't have a gun. I didn't show you or give you any reason to do that. And I didn't that night either. Yeah, well, you said don't move. I moved. But you didn't say police. It's 5 30 in the morning. If I said don't move to you, you would have moved because it's a once again a normal human reaction. I'm old jumpy smoke and crack, of course. So if I was there by myself that night, nothing would have happened. I mean, maybe I would have gotten shot or whatever, but as far as he would still be alive. No doubt. Do you feel lucky to still be alive? Of course. Before the drugs and the shooting and the old jumping out the moving car? Yes. Why do you think you're still here? I mean, I think it's it's clear. I think it's very clear that I'm here to help others that went down and that are going down the road of addiction, just as you are. You made it through, you know, and I think that God wants us to be, you know, going to like, we're going to be like his elves. He's Santa Claus. We're the elves. We got to help him. Right. What was it like first day in prison after getting 10 years? Were you clean then? Yeah. I would have already been there three years, but then we went to trial. So it was three years later. Was that a relief that it was kind of all over? You feel as if you could start holding your life again? Well, yeah, that, but also it was good for my mindset because now I know I'm coming home at this time. So now within this amount of time that I have left, I could set goals for myself. I went to school. I got a degree that I paid for out of my own pocket. I got sober. I continued my recovery. So there's a lot, a lot of good things that I did while I was there. I made the most of the time. What pleasant weekend. I was in, well, first Rikers Island. It's New York City jail. It's an East Elmhurst Queens. And then I went upstate to the all nighter correctional facility. And then at the end of June of 2011, they announced that the place was closing because of budget cuts. They closed a lot of facilities that year. Empty bed space. So then what happened was we got transferred. And, you know, I'm glad that we got transferred because all night it was like four and a half, four and a half, five hours away. That's a lot. My father was old. He wasn't old, but he was sick. It was my mom though drive. So it was hard. Sometimes I didn't see my parents two, three months. But then we went to this place called the Hudson Correctional Facility. That was like an hour and a half. Perfect. Every weekend I had visits Saturday and Sunday. Every week I was a very busy guy. I was present for you. How were you treated because you must have been a celebrity in there? Everybody would have loved the Bronx too. Everybody would have seen that. Does that help you though as it become a hindrance? It could go either way. Yeah. Some CEOs, they'll treat you better because of it. Or some of them will treat you worse to sound like a fuck who you are. You're all where you are because you did something stupid. And someone lost their life. So this is what it is. And then you get some inmates. Oh, I love that movie. But then you get some that want to cut you or stab you. Just so that they could say, I'm the guy who stabbed that guy. So for the most part, though, it worked out for me. Thank God. See, my face is clean. I didn't get cut. Nothing like that. Thank God, which could have easily happened in Rikers Island at any point, any day. I'm just glad. It happened the way it should have. And I'm here in one piece. My allergies have bothered me a little bit. Yes. People think we're mean. You're hiding now. But other than that, I'm a happy guy. I'm a happy camper. Yeah. What was the worst thing you've seen in prison? Well, I've seen this in Rikers Island. I've seen this one kid get stomped out really bad. He was in a puddle of blood. I thought he was dead. He was lifeless. Because I seen it like I seen it happen. And it was like, because these are like concrete floors. And his face was getting stomped to the concrete. He was loud. Boom. Boom. Boom. And I couldn't believe how long it took to knock him out where he was still. And that was pretty scary. I think it would have been worse if they would have stabbed him up. I mean, I think it was worse when I saw. I don't think it would have been as bad if they stabbed him up. Because what I saw was just bad. It was just bad. Seeing you again through your changes, did you do a program or anything? When I was upstate in prison, we had to do ASAP, which is Alcohol and Substance Abuse Treatment and then ART, which is Aggression Replacement Training. Those were two mandated programs because I had my crime was drug fueled and because I anger. It's a violent crime. So they, they, they, they, you know, associate violence with anger. So if you've got your anger in check, maybe you wouldn't have done that. How hard does it get through the changes in trying to stay on the path and do the right thing? Uh, well, it gets easier now because I've been doing it for so long and I've seen how much, you know, better people have come into my life. Better things are just how opportunities, you know, to be present themselves more when you're like doing the right thing, that good stuff gravitates toward you. So I wouldn't say it's hard at all. I think it gets easier. How long did you do in prison? Well, I got 10 years. I was supposed to do eight and a half, but I did eight because I told you I went to college. So I got a six month time cut. Eight years out of 10? 80% of... Yeah. That's a lot. You think so? Yeah. Usually UK is usually half, sometimes two thirds. But if you do your core season stuff and anger management, you get out quicker, but... Well, because this was a violent crime, so it's 85%. If you... If it's nonviolent, it would be 65%. What was it like getting out? Clean. Yeah, I was out clean. It was good because my dad, you know, he was sick, but he was able to see me clean and strong and working out. It was kind of like bittersweet. I know I was coming home and seeing my family, my friends and everything, but at the same time, it's not like I'm a war hero that just came back from the war and people are waiting for me, you know, open arms. Hey, Lilo! A lot of people hated me and still do because of what happened, you know? So it was tough because you're going into the unknown, not knowing. You've never knew the world like this because something so bad happened. Now, how are people going to perceive me? What's it going to be like? Not with all this new technology to the iPhone. And I first got my first iPhone, so there was a lot of changes. But then there were a lot of things that were still the same. There was a lot of the people, same people doing the same things as they were doing before you left. They just look a little older, you know? Were you ever scared that when you came out, you would start again? Because the temptation's real. I was on parole. And when you're on parole, they don't mess around. They'll put you right back in jail. So that was good for me to be on parole because I knew for a fact I couldn't mess up. So being that long, being sober that long and then coming home and then learning how to live sober because of parole because you have to with parole. But it's also at the same time while you have to, you're learning how to live life, not dependent on drugs and alcohol. So it worked out well. It worked out well. One of the parole supervisors, I still speak to him very, you know, I still speak to him all the time. He was definitely a very, you know, he was a motivating force in my life. He looked out for me when I was there. That looked out for me. That gave me special treatment. But, you know, saw that I was a good guy and just steered me in the right direction. Don't get me wrong. He would have violated me in two seconds like anyone else. But, you know, I was blessed to have him in my life and to still have him in my life. What about the acting, Kitty, and Lou? Well, yeah, I mean, it's not like it was when I was doing Bronx Tale, but I got a film called Sleepyhead that we did two years ago. But we finally got it back from the writer-director after a long legal battle. So we're working with some people over at Linesgate to rework the film, coming out with a totally different ending. It's going to be awesome. It really is. Were you in a Chris Brown film, 2020? How did that come about? Well, it was a... It was a Chris Brown video. Music video. Yeah, City Girls. Yeah, what happened? How did that come about? It's got Matt Goldstein. He emailed me and said, hey, Lilo, I'm a producer for Chris Brown. And we got this video. Did you ever see the video? Yeah. That video is like a feature film. They probably spent more than... They probably spent like 20 minutes. Unbelievable. One of the best videos I've ever seen. Mm-hmm. So he said, we did this video with Chris Brown. And in the beginning, there's a little room for a voiceover. And he said, and I couldn't think of a more iconic voice than yours. So, you know, let's... Let's... You know, let me run it by Chris and see what he says. So I, you know, I said, okay, and Matt's a great guy. He goes, Lilo. He goes, I spoke to Chris and his exact words were, I fucks with that nigga. So I got to... Yeah. How was that thing? Because obviously with the reputation and being in prison, people would have been scared. But that guy, Matt, turned out to be a good guy. I love that. Yeah. But even after that, he still stayed in touch. Christmas. That's a real person. Because like people, when they don't need you anymore, it's like, all right, I don't need them. But this guy still reached out to me for Christmas. That's an extension of who he is. Yeah. And the kind of person he is. Yeah. But that's how that happened. And yeah, it was cool. Like they sent me the microphones, because I said, yeah, I could just do it on my iPhone. You know, because the microphone's pretty good. And they were like, no, no, no. We'll send you a real, we'll send you a real microphone. You only got to do it on the phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they sent me all the stuff and they sent me all the stuff and we were like on, like video chat while I was doing it. And to be honest with you, I did like four or five different takes that I really like, but we did them a little different. The one that they chose was probably the one I liked the least. But I'm still in there. Still up. Still up. He's a superstar. A superstar. Massive. He's massive. Yeah. But I appreciate that when people, because just because you've done bad shit in life, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. Do you know what I mean? People fuck up. People make mistakes. You've rectified that you never killed anybody. No matter if it annoys people that I say that, you never fucking pulled the trigger. You never killed anybody. You never, you've made mistakes. You were a fucking drug addict. You put your hands up to that. You're now helping people. It's a beautiful thing, if anything. Yeah, but people don't see it that way because a lot of people, you know, a lot of people are brainwashed and they think they have to be a certain way. But it's like, wouldn't you want what I want for your own kid? Ask yourself that question. If this was your own kid, what would you want for him or her, especially since they're doing the right thing? What did you want them to get a second chance? It's like, you know what I mean? I would be dead if God didn't want me to have a second chance, right? He would have taken my life. There would have been a force bigger than us that would have said, you know what, I don't think this guy should be here anymore. He's not doing anything and, you know, not that it always works out like that. But he kept me alive for a reason and other people should see that because these same people that oppose me, oh, cop, killer, piece of shit. If their kid needed me, I would be the first one to help because I know what it is, you know what I mean? And it has nothing to do with this other stuff. It's something much bigger. It's deep. You don't want that for your children, but you would want them to get a second chance, just like my parents did. Does people scale to what with you now? Of course. Yeah, do you feel that? I think the public perception, I think, you know, they may say, always be great for this role, but you know, do we want to hear all this bullshit? Do we want to deal with this? But I think as time goes on, I think it'll get easier. Because, you know, as time is going on, you get so many people, like a lot of these younger casting agents in LA and stuff like that. They don't even know who I am. They didn't even know the Bronx Tale. So they don't even know about what happened, which is a good thing. I don't care. If you don't know about the Bronx Tale, but as long as you don't know about the other thing, we could start fresh and you could look at me and judge me based on who and what I am, what I'm here with you and how I treat you. That's all I ask. What sort of part do you think you could play now? Oh, I could play so many parts. I've been through so much. I like doing voices and different accents, but I think as an actor, I definitely have more depth because I was able to tap into emotions that I've never even thought were inside me. But, you know, like feelings of sadness, of anger, of disappointment. Because when you're in prison and facing life, that, you know, stuff that you've never felt, you will start to feel. Because there's no... There's nothing that... There's nothing as deep that I've ever felt in my life. And then I realize, like, wow, like, this is an emotion too. Like, I've never felt this way. But now it's like when you felt it, you kind of felt how you felt when you felt that way. And it's like maybe you could, like, try to do it again if you need to for a part. How do the cops treat you? Because obviously, you feel as if you killed one of her own as you ever get. Any sort of... looks or... any sort of anger towards you? Yeah, of course. You know? Yeah, but, you know, like, for the most part, like, since I've been home, it's gonna be at the end of this year, it's gonna be 10 years since I'm home. I mean, I've had a couple of run. One guy spit on the floor, but then I spoke to him. I seen him a couple of days later. He was cool. A lot of times when it's the cops, one-on-one, they're cool. But I guess together, they have to take that stance as far as I'm concerned. And it is what it is. You know, they're a brotherhood. They stick together, which I respect very much. I mean, you can have cops from wherever. They're a cop. They're a cop. And they stick together with the other cops from different cities and whatever. But you gotta respect that. I wish, you know, more people stuck together like that. You know? Yeah. But you don't get that anymore. There's no brotherhood. There's no loyalty. There's no... We spoke to the cops here. They love the Scottish, which I didn't know, but they've all been friendly. I fucking love New York. I love the people. I love everything about it. I love the buzz. I love the friendliness. Yeah, yeah. There's more opportunities for some reason. People seem to want to help you more. Yes, it's fucking crazy, but where's not? Yeah. Where's fucking nuts? Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? We'll walk down Glasgow for 10 minutes. You'll be like, they're all fucking crazy. Yeah. But that's life. How's your head space now? As far as what? Just life and feelings. Well, I've gotten to the point in my life where I used to be a little more high-strung and just arguing with people and starting, you know, to where I'm not like that anymore. It's just because it's like kind of recovery. I'm recovering from that kind of behavior, just like I was recovering from my addiction. So I know how to do it. It's like in the beginning, because like when you start doing good things, eventually you're going to start seeing good things come to fruition. But it doesn't happen right away. But right now I'm at the point, my head space is, I'm too old to argue. If you fucking told me one plus one was six, it's six, you know? It's six. It's like my friend told me this like, it's not even a joke, but you got a tiger and a donkey, a jackass. They're looking at the sky and the jackass is saying, the sky is green and the tiger says, no it's not, it's blue. No it's not, it's green, it's blue. So the tiger says, all right, let's go talk to the lion, see what he says, okay? The lion says, okay, so what's the story? The donkey says, I told him the sky was green, he's saying it's blue. And he said, the sky is green, now you go away. He said, you, you're punished for arguing with this idiot about something that you know the sky is blue. So like when I heard that, like I apply that to everything. Why argue? You know what I mean? Even if something is worthy of an argument, but still, why argue? Love is fleeting. So many things are fleeting. They come and go. But one thing that I want and I know I can achieve is peace. I just want peace in my life. And if you carry yourself a certain way, you don't put out any of that negative energy. Because I have in the past, you know, like there's certain things about, you know, reasons why I was hurt. And you know, when you're hurt, you hurt other people. That's the bottom line. Normal, well-adjusted people don't say, oh fuck, you know, they just don't do that. And I realize when I was hurting, is when I was hurting people. But now I'm going to get to the point where I just let everything go. Because I, you know, like, I always took everything as a personal attack. It's not. Everyone has their own problems. You may look at this guy or this girl and think on the surface, wow, they got a great life. They don't. You don't know what they go home to. So I'm at the point in my life, my head space is, I don't want to argue. I want peace in my life. And like I said, one plus one is six, then it's fucking six. Did you never get a book about your life? A book? Yeah. No. No. I'm sure one day I will. I'm sure one day I will. I'd like to. I mean, it'd be a great book. Yeah, definitely. There's so much. There's so much there. Do you know what I mean? Do you feel as if there's a lot of red tape now because of that incident? But then again, it's 10 years ago. And like I said. It's more than 10 years. It's 20 years ago. It's December 10th, 2005. What? That's when it happened. 18 years ago? Yeah. Oh fuck's sake, man. But you got a prison just nearly 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. I got out New Year's Eve, 2013. It's a long time, man. Yeah. And obviously because, but everybody deserves a chance. And like I said, you never killed anybody. Do you know what I mean? You're making changes. You're trying to do the right thing. You're helping kids stay off the streets and try to not make the same mistakes you did. How's that feeling? Try to help people now and show them there is light at the end of the tunnel. Well, it's a great feeling to be able to be in that position and, you know, of a role model. You got to take that seriously because, you know, you have a platform. You got to use it the right way. So many people don't, you know, the musicians and rappers or they want to talk about drugs and selling drugs and fuck this and fuck that. And I just think that's irresponsible when you have a platform that big to spread that kind of stuff. Even though it's music and it's an expression, you know, it's not like a movie where you're playing a character. It's more about you're saying that you're this person and that you do these things. So people will, you know, will try to follow and copy that even though it's negative. And I just think it's very important to like teach people, you know, teach people and tell, you know, teach people the right way, teach people the right things. Who would you like to work with? I mean, I'd probably like to work with, you know, Pacino because Daniel Pacino is always my favorite growing up as an Italian kid and, you know, even though I'm Colombian, but, you know, basically an Italian kid, I grew up with all Italians and then I'm Daniel Pacino or like two gods. So I would like to work with Pacino because I really work with Daniel, work with Pacino. If you say director, I would probably have to say someone like, you know, Darren Aronofsky. Who's he? He did the wrestler. Oh. Laxwad. Yeah. He's an awesome director. But look at, who's the guy named the wrestler, Mickey Rook? Mickey Rook. His life. The wrestler then boom, he was, he went missing for fucking 20 years. Yeah. He was the next big thing. Again, ended up fucking it. And what is obviously the plastic surgery on that, but what a part he played fucking on. That was my favorite movie of his. That was his best one. The wrestler is a unbelievable. The film that I wrote, Never Meet Your Heroes. Yeah. It's about addiction and it's going to be with the girl from a Bronx still. It has that wrestler feel like that beat down loser type guy. That was a perfect part for him because that was kind of his life. Life. I thought in my opinion. Right. Unbelievable. The actor, he seems a good guy. I know people who know Mickey. Mickey and they just say he's a mad company. Solid. Solid. Yeah. And yeah, what a great film. But like Guy Ritchie films now, I would imagine he would take, like give you a partner. I like Guy Ritchie. He's like talking to a smoking man. Yeah, yeah. He's big. He's big in the UK, huh? Yeah. Massive. He's probably the biggest. Oh, really? Massive. Massive. He's done some great films. Thanks to the director and the producer and everything that goes behind that is mad. Where do you go forward for the future? What's your plans? Well, I still want to help people. You know, I'd want to maybe one day have maybe own a treatment facility or two or three or four. But definitely, and I still want to act. I've caught the writing bug. Like I said, I wrote a screenplay titled Never Meet Your Heroes about addiction with the girl from a Bronx. We're going to have a daughter in it. We're not the same people from a Bronx tale. So I like writing and I have some really great real life experiences that I can write about that your average person doesn't really have. So it's like, it may have been fucked up when it happened, but now it's something that I can use to make art, you know? Have you ever seen De Niro since? I spoke to him after a Bronx tale. Oh, yeah. I spoke to his daughter not too long although she lost her son, Leandro, rest in peace from addiction. She was a young kid, 20s, early 20s. But I spoke to and saw De Niro when they were doing the Irishman at the end of 2017. What is here? Well, I went on the set. Makeup artist, his hair was hair. Hair, not makeup artist. His hair guy, Jerry Popoulos. He knew her. I lived, which was not far from where they were shooting because we did a Willie Allen film and he did my hair piece. So he remembers when he came to my house to fit me for the hair piece. So he knew I lived right there. And he sent me a direct message on the Instagram at like 5.30 in the morning. I'm on the treadmill. He was like, hey, listen, we're going to be right near where you live. You should come down. Say hello to Bob. He's got a light day. So that was the last time I saw him, which was cool. Yeah, that's still amazing though. Yeah. It's still amazing that even that guy reaching out to you to set it up. Yeah, yeah. Was it happy for you that you're on the straight and narrow? Because it must, he would have known. Oh, absolutely. He even left a comment. They did. They gave me a little piece in the New York Post, which I was very thankful for Joshua Hartnett. And they got a comment from Denierro and he did express that he was really happy that I'm on the straight and narrow, which was very nice. He could have said no comment. How hard does it to, because the parts you played, it kind of fell into your laps. If the stars had aligned for your life to be that way. But how hard does it be an actor? In what regard? Just the stresses, the pressures, trying to keep getting work. Because people see people on the big screen and they think they're millionaires, but you know yourself, there's nothing like that. So how hard is it to try and stay in that industry without because you're in your 40s now. You've played some of the best roles. Yeah. And you're still trying to find them. Well, because I have something else that I do that I find very gratifying, you know, helping other people and working at the treatment center. Because that's a very big part of my life. Because without my sobriety, movies, none of that means anything. So it's like acting is more or less become more of a hobby nowadays, where it's like, I wouldn't say I would take it or leave it. That's not the case. But what I will say is, I don't really depend on it to make a living like I used to. I think when you depend on it to make a living and pay your bills from what you make from acting, then it can be scary because it's like feast or famine. You know, you work two, three films in a row, then you didn't work for eight months. So it's like, you know, you keep dipping into that savings. It's it gets hard. And eventually that money's going to run out, you know. But for me, after everything I've been through, just to be able to get the opportunity to do any kind of acting to me is a is a win. It's a big win. So I'm not really too concerned about not getting roles and stuff like that. I'm happy to just be here. Yeah, it's a fucking blessing. Yeah. It's a blessing that you're still even here to tell the tale. It's something like these these, you know, these actors and I see on their Instagram, they post nothing other than their acting headshots. This that's like, don't you have a life other than this? Because it's like when you only this, if this doesn't go well, you're going to lose focus because it's like a liability. That's why you need to put your eggs in more than one basket. You can't put them on the same basket. You know, especially look what happened. You just had a strike for three months. So as an actor, if you're paying on only that source of income, it's going to suck for you, you know, when you get your happiest. I'm at my happiest when I'm with my nephew and my nieces. My nieces are twin girls, Madison and Alexa and a seven and my nephew is 11. His name is Vincenzo. That's when I'm at my happiest. Yeah. For anybody watching, it's in that life of struggle, in that life of pain, can't quit drinking or taking drugs. What advice would you have for them? I guess because, you know, you're still playing the tape out. You're not going to, you're not realizing or fully realizing what's going to happen. But what I can tell you from experiences that when you do this stuff excessively, nothing good ever, ever is going to come out of it. When you can drink like a normal person, you know, two, three drinks, get a little loud screaming, yeah, have a great night, dance, go to sleep and for, you know, it's over. That's okay. Lucky bastard. Right. That's okay. Right. Or you get people like, you know, they got cocaine left over from the last party. How do you got some left over? I'm borrowing money. I'm trying to like, yeah. I'm stealing money. My mom's boss to try. Yeah. My mom used to hide her purse. They used to have money. I used to have my money in the wall. I used to find every place. I used to take their credit cards and gamble. Oh, really? And I used to try and deny it and just try and get the the statements in every month and trying. It was just, it's a horrible existence. Any addiction, even over-eating or under-eating or anything that can be detrimental to your health and mindset. Why do you think that makes your life unmanageable? Whether it's eating, whatever addiction, you know, it's an addiction, it's an addiction. But that's crazy, right, your mom? James, what the hell is this charge here? Yeah. And you make excuses. Sometimes I used to deny shit. No. It's blatantly you, but it's just where the pain of addiction takes you. I've lost many of the ones through. So I say the addiction and I know the struggle is real, but you can't change everybody because if people try to change me back, they just tell them to fuck off. Yeah. But now I understand it now and if somebody reaches out, I'll always try and reply and try and give them some guidance. Or even a little voice, not just the well done, proud of you. I'll always give everybody the time of day, but what's the main ingredient for change, do you think, to become a better person? Say again? What's the main ingredient you think for change to become a better person is? The willingness to want to change. You know what I mean? Lilo, how did you do it? How did you do it? I just say because I really wanted it. I believe if anybody really wants something, they can have it. I mean, you're not going to become Michael Jordan because you really want it and you practice. No, that's not realistic, but something that's realistic and attainable, which is recovery. Anybody can get clean. I'm not better than anyone else who doesn't get clean. Anyone can get clean, but the level of how much you want it is going to determine whether you actually get it or not. And support is a very big part of it. And it's scary as well changes because when you start changing, it's the conscience. It's everything that you have done is a fucking because that pushes you back to just keep drinking or taking drugs because it just blocks out here. It numbs the pain. So when you start becoming clean and it's the conscience of the people you've treated wrong and the things you've says, the things you've done, you think, wow, how the fuck did it go so bad? Because everybody's got great potential. Everybody's got something great in them. Everybody, you can learn something from everybody's, you know, got something that you don't. And that's a beautiful thing about this world that we live in. Everybody's different and we can learn from other people. For anybody, like I say, watching, again, what advice would you have for them to if they were struggling with addiction what's the best advice you have for them? That, you know, nothing changes. If nothing changes, nothing changes. It's not going to just go away. You're not going to wake up one day and it's just like going to go away. If you don't work at it, it's going to eventually kill you because that's the goal. That's its goal. That's what addiction wants to do once they kill you. So if you feel that you have a problem, get help right away, right away. You know, Carol O'Connor, he was Archie Bunker. Do you remember he did that public service announcement commercial in the 80s because his son died of cocaine overdose? Maybe he was having those horrifying hallucinations and then they got a close-up and he said, keep your kid off drugs if you want to save the kid's life. That's the bottom line. You know what I mean? If you recognize early on that you have a problem that you're doing a little more than you're some normal person, chances are you do have a problem to get help as soon as you can because if you do it as soon as you can, the addiction's not going to grow to something bigger, then it's going to be that much harder to stop then. So my advice to you is if you feel that you have any kind of a get help right away because that's going to give you your best shot to get clean. Lilo, for anybody that that's watching, that's maybe wanting to reach out and speak to you, where can they contact you? I'm on Instagram, LiloLLO underscore Broncado B-R-A-N-C-A-T-O I'm on there. I post two videos a week, motivational videos, post motivational quotes every day. It's pretty much a, you know, it's like a little acting, a little family in here and there, but it's mostly about inspiration and motivation. Would you like to finish up on anything brother? No. I mean, you know, like I said, you know, if you feel that it's something that's taking control of your life or making your life, even this much unmanageable, it's going to get worse. So get help as soon as you can. I'm trying to think, I don't think I left anything out. Lilo, it's been an absolute pleasure, brother. I wish you nothing but the best of your future. You too, bro. You're a real gentleman. Thank you. Because this guy was in, you know, just an Instagram face for a while. Yeah. You're a good guy, bro. Yeah, I appreciate that. I really, I really mean that. Yeah, and likewise, I genuinely wish you all the best of your future. Thank you, brother. That's a great fucking accident, though.