 Again, when I was informed that there was child pornography on the internet, I was extremely offended and we started an organization that was extremely militant. We started out as the ACPM, the anti-child porn militia. In the first three weeks of our organization, we got 300 volunteers. A hundred of those volunteers signed up as hackers. We thought that there was a solution if there was child porn on a server, let the boys go out there, hack the server, remove the information. If there was child porn on an ISP, notify them, have them remove that information. As you all know, that information is backed up on CDs, other hard drives that does absolutely no good. When we came here last year to DEFCOM, we were looking for hackers. While we were here, one of our board people, one of the people in our organization, said something that I really paid attention to. You cannot stop a felony with a felony. Our main goal is to put these people in prison that is the only way they're going to stop dispensing child pornography and wounding children and killing children. In order to do that, we had to embrace law enforcement. We now work directly with law enforcement, other organizations such as Missing Children, FBI, US Customs, UNESCO. One of the things that we've done with our hacking community is we've redirected their energy. They now are building tools to help us fight child pornography. We have one tool in particular that goes out and spiders out child porn on the internet. We are refining that tool according to law enforcement's requirements to do a better job. If we send in all the reports we get of child pornography, they cannot deal with it. We have a lot of work to do. We have a lot of filming. But if we refine those reports and do part of their job to make their job easier, we have better equipment, we have more time, we have more bandwidth, then they can do their job better. We are now a non-for-profit organization. We have a structure. We have a board of directors. If you go to our website, look at their bios. We have businessmen. We have actually two parts to ACPO. We have ACPO and we have TeamACPO. TeamACPO is made up of our programmers and our developers. ACPO, board of directors, myself go through background checks. Anybody dealing directly that close with our organization goes through background checks. Our coders do not. A few of them do because they are working on specific tools. So we have to check who we are dealing with. Well, at this point I think what I am going to do, we also have a huge liaison program all over the United States, all over the world. One of the goals of the liaisons is to look for law enforcement contacts. This is D-Quest. He is our French liaison and our European representative. Hi everyone. As she told you, I am coming from France. I will take care of the European part of ACPO because this child-porn financing is not only a disaster in America but also over Europe where we have a lot of child-porn, not only websites but a really well-organized system. One of my job with ACPO is to take care not only to get contacts, like for example get really good contacts at the UNESCO because we are an official, as Natia said previously, with non-profit status now. It's like a real organization, not only a website. And we are trying to build like a big network of contacts in official agency all over Europe because it's really important to take care of this part of the continent. The other thing is about the team ACPO, as Natia said previously, we do have many programmers who join us directly by our website because we are trying to build a lot of tools in different language, running different platforms. We can use to automatize the maximum of the task because we went like when we started two years ago from single copy and paste, from submission from the website to now fitting directly databases with all the information, all those reports we get from website, from emails and it saves a lot of time. It will help us to be more efficient on the result and all the information we will grab from those reports. The other part for team ACPO is to build some kind of donation where is to make some software running on different operating system that family will be able to use at home just to make sure the kids are surfing and don't see this kind of pictures, this kind of website. So that's one of the biggest plan we get at this time is to release one of the person across platform software to filter not only with keywords but with all the technical parts to prevent this from happening to kids. So we're working on this and that's why we need some programmers for this team ACPO, no matter of the skills you have, it depends because we not focus on any language at this time to build this kind of software or any people with C++, with any language would be really helpful to us for the website part for making the softwares, for creating those databases and I think there's a lot of a lot of job to do on this part. The other part is about our needs, so of course we need some not only software not hardware but we need bandwidth at this time all our information are gathered on computers around the world. One of the main aims is to get local and small and pretty secure network operation center with dedicated line database system like regular network operation system center, sorry. So as a non-profit organization at this time we're able to receive donation from companies, from any people and it already helps a lot this, I don't know what's your word, it's in America, it's the 501C3 that's the technical word for the non-profit. There's a lot of things to do with ACPO. If you have programming skills, if you have skills at all, we don't ask for anyone to work like 24 hours a day, if they just want to spare some time with us, if they feel like doing it, everyone is welcome, really. And we also, as one of our board of directors likes to put it, we're kind of an umbrella that has met with other organizations doing basically the same thing we're doing, trying to stop child porn on the internet. We have a sister organization in Germany, Anti-Kinder Porno DE, who met with us at Myrtle Beach in law enforcement. They've been around for about six years. We have a group in Denmark that we're closely associated with. At this time, I'd like to introduce you to Ra'Loxley from... You never get it right. I don't, I get locks from condemned.org. I'm Ra'Loxley. This is Blueberry. This is our Australian component. Some of you may know me as kind of the hacker contingent. And we started exactly like they did. We didn't call ourselves a militia, although if I had thought of it, we probably would have. We figured that, and it was really Blue and Vort, the other people from Australia that started this. They brought up a website and they knew that I was out there doing it anyway. And they said, hey, you, you're old. You've got a big mouth. You want to come and help. And so we kind of got in bed together right away. And we started in the same way. We started going out and right on the website, it says, we take child pornographers off the net in any way we can. What's the exact wording? It's about it. Any way we can. Well, I got hooked up. Some of you know the name Most Hated, unfortunately now in jail. But one of the good things that he did was introduce me to Natasha and her crew. And she said to us, well, you guys are going through what we went through about, you know, was it a year and a half, two years ago? And after many screaming phone calls in the middle of the night and her sitting me down and in the channel and saying, you know, you need to listen, I finally came to the realization that as much as I hate to admit it, she's right. And our group now is 100% legitimate. However, we do have a lot of people that come to us and say, listen, we found these sites. What do you want us to do? And we tell them, we want you to report them on the site and we will take care of them. Now, unfortunately, and I'm hoping my law enforcement contact next to me doesn't shoot me. But unfortunately, they don't have as much bandwidth as we do. They don't have as much time. And so what we find is that they'll go and they'll look at the site three or four times. These hackers, and if it's not gone, a lot of the time they take it down themselves. Now, I will not go out and let me step back. When they come to me, I'll always advise them about the law, as I understand it. And I just kind of got my head handed to me. I didn't understand one piece of it. I've always felt that it was morally right to do this, morally right to go and, yeah, it is a felony to perpetrate a felony. But something that I was missing was that when we go out there and we hack these sites, a lot of the time we're stealing evidence from people like them who are in a legitimate investigation trying to put these people in jail. And this is what Natasha has been screaming at me about for about the last six months. So I will not go out and tell a hacker not to hack a pedophile site. But I will tell them what the legalities are, why you shouldn't do it, and explain to them what the consequences are, potential consequences, which I just got schooled on this morning. It was kind of pretty embarrassing. But if it's a choice between hacking NASA and a pedophile site, I think everybody knows what recommendation I'm going to give them. For us, it's been a hard transition because the people that I deal with are hackers. They're people that want to go out, they want to hack things, and they want it to be something that morally right, they can kind of jump on the bandwagon and do something that they can perform an act of conscience, which they still do. Now, I'm trying to change that. I'm not recruiting, don't need any bandwidth, don't need web space, don't need anything. We have all of that. All I'm saying is that get involved, you know, whether we don't, yeah, sure, everybody needs money, but we're not looking for that either. If you know a congressman, senator, anything like that, write him a letter and say to them, listen, these guys are right, they need to, the congressmen and senators need to start changing some of the laws to give them teeth. One of the things that Natasha, I'm really surprised with your mouth that you didn't bring this up. There is a particular law that we have been looking at and we're now actively in the process of trying to change if somebody goes out and rapes a child, they can get 10 to 20 years. If that person is related to that child, generally they get probation, we find that unacceptable. By definition, a child trusts that family member and we find it very difficult to set that type of a precedent to a child and nobody knows that. That's the thing. So that's one example, please, just get on the phone if you know senators, congressmen, just in your home states, just write them a letter and say go look at condemn.org and see if you can help us. That's all, that's all I ask. And did you want to say anything? This is Blueberry, hopefully you can understand her accent. Hi, I just, I've had a thought that I really think the industry should start regulating itself. I'm talking about the people who run web hosting services. Yeah, I think that unless people who start filtering their own content, look at what they're putting online before they just put it up. Otherwise we're looking at censorship down the line. You're giving governments reasons to install software that prohibits people viewing things. We're not for censorship. With the industry starting to look at what they're putting online, if they stop putting it out there, we don't have to take it down anymore. I mean, sure, they're gonna move to somewhere else. Perhaps an easier place for us to catch them online like IRC, you know? So if any of you guys are web hosting, check your content first, please, please. Boy, I didn't think you were gonna say anything. On that note, back to you, Nat. Thank you for listening. And I'd like to introduce you to Detective Mark Latterman, and he'll tell you more about himself. My name is Mark Latterman. I'm a detective for Minneapolis, and I'm currently assigned to the Minnesota High-Tech Crime Task Force. Yeah, I can't believe no one spotted me. It's my fed. Anyway, I can certainly appreciate the frustration that several attendees of this convention have regarding hacking child porn websites. However, I do have to caution you that if I am investigating a crime, if I am investigating unauthorized computer access in the state of Minnesota, it is punishable by a five-year felony. And that's to start with. I don't have to show intent. I don't have to show damage. I have to show access. That's very easy for me to do. So I just wanna caution you about doing that. I certainly appreciate the morals behind doing this. I certainly appreciate why someone would want to go ahead and do this. And if I wasn't in law enforcement, I don't know what I would be doing about it. Yeah, I just don't want to see someone with good intentions get more trouble than what they realized could have happened to them. Also, I do wanna keep this brief. So I just wanna touch on one other topic. There's this misperception that if someone wants to report child pornography on the internet, that they wanna go to the feds right away. Well, believe it or not, your local and state authorities have much more authority in dealing with these crimes than the feds do. And I tell you that firsthand as quote off and federal agencies come to me asking for assistance in Minnesota. So I don't wanna tell you folks, don't go to the feds if you wanna report something, but certainly try your local and state authorities first also. Thank you. If you do find it, report it. At this point, we are gonna open it to questions and answers. Yes, ma'am. We wanted to keep this real brief because we know it's handed. Yes ma'am. Well, that's one of the things that we're doing with Team ACP. She wants to know how we're gonna know what the website is. That's one of the things that Team ACP has done is written a script now. So all our reports run through a process. And not only do we give them the URL, but we give them the DNS, the IP, who is all the other information we can. The next step of that, and that goes off to Nick Mick, the missing children, customs, and the feds. After that, if we find that the site is in Alabama, then if you're the Alabama liaison, you will have given us law enforcement connections in Alabama. It will be sent to them also. Go Phil, go. I can actually speak fairly loudly if you want. I'm curious, can you, you can only do things about sites here in the United States, right? I mean, no. That's, really. Yeah. We have law enforcement contacts in a lot of different places in the world. We are by no means to where we should be in terms of our contacts. So if you know somebody, and we'll never have enough, because it's such a global problem that you can keep me if I talk to you. But it's such a global problem that people just don't understand. It's everywhere. And for every site we take down, you know, 10 are put back up. Let's try the time to light it up. Eight weeks before they even do it, it's like, it's too long. It's too long. You've got 20,000 people down wanting to put it in straight back up. So you really please try to lobby, lobby, lobby. Really get law enforcement to cut down these times. This is one of the things that we're doing too, is we're going to address the problem. There are people out there, I think there's corn out there, but I think there's child porn. And there's a lot of people that don't go out because it's child porn. Old ladies with computers. Grab the mic. The other thing Blue had said too about ISPs, we do have a letter that is ready to go out to the ISPs, but because of the process and staying legal, that has to go through all of the board of directors that goes to, that has actually gone to the feds, and that will go out to ISPs now addressing that problem. Something else I wanted to say too. We were sent some information to send over to law enforcement. We were sent 11.5 megs of text off of a child porn BBS. I spent three hours deleting information that someone in their good intentions had tried to crash that BBS and shut it down. It took me three hours. I had to send it to a professional organization database. It took them another five hours before we could even start to look at this information to send to the FBI. So a lot of times, like it was mentioned before, and then the evidence that we had gotten before, they did eventually shut this BBS down and a couple others. We lost the evidence that we had ready for law enforcement. So from my point of view, please, if you know of a site, report it if you have a problem, mail, don't shut down these, some of them being watched. And that's another point, we agree, because ACPO and Condemn.org, I mean, we don't have to forget that the main aim is exactly the same, is to prevent, to take the child porn from, to take out the child porn from the internet. After, we want to argue about the way we will do it. It's different organization, but there is something for sure is we will cross maybe sometime our roads on several sites, and that's why exchanging information, it's not because it's two different organizations that we won't speak to each other, that's why today we are at the same table, is to make sure we don't make them waste some time on the site or if they don't do it, they don't make us waste some time on the site we're working on. And this is really important to get those kind of contacts with all those kind of, with all those organizations. Yeah, that's another example. We also, at the time of ACPM, something like a year ago, one of my friend, Kelm Williams, from AHA, Etiquel Acura Against Pedophilia. The X-Packet Storm, Ken Reynolds. Also known as Packet Storm. Working, we were working on the Russian site, like our folk pics, because when we're talking about child porn, just forget the 10 years kids. We're talking about three or four years babies having sex with adults. And we're trying to do the maximum to grab information and to work on this case. And just mail him to know if he adds some information and everything, and just tell me, mail me back like a few minutes after the request, just stop it. We're working on this case for at least six months with Interpol, which is the equivalent of a federal agency in Europe, but working all over Europe. And, I mean, they've been working six months. And if we started to work on this case, we are trying to get information or anything. I mean, all their work would have been, what's the word? Worth? Destroyed. For nothing, for nothing. That's why it's really important. We're still in contact with all those organizations. Much as I hate to admit it, hacking these sites does destroy evidence, doesn't put the people in jail, doesn't allow them to be Bubba's girlfriend in jail. And so it deprives me of a great pleasure of knowing that they're in there for a long time really suffering and they can't put their poison back up on the net. So as much as I hate to admit it with my kind of checkered past, they're right. Yes, sir. In the previous session, the gentleman said that it took him three hours to detect who put out the lovebug virus. Why does it take you people six months to get one of these sites that everybody's looking at all day long? Yeah, the thing is, what I was saying about this, you're talking about the Russian site I was talking about, yeah. The thing is, on the child porn scene, I mean, first when I, when created, when Natasha created ACPM, I saw that was some kind of grandpa having a couple of kids picked off porn, child porn on their hard drive. But several cases showed us that it's a real mafia behind this. It's a well-organized network of child porn. Some people say previously, if we shut down the site, it's gonna be restored. What it means is it's backed up. There are several servers. And I mean, it's very well-organized. And what they try to do on this case is to introduce and send some agents directly in Russia to get into this network. Because this is a real mafia. Yeah, you can't, unfortunately, in some cases, you can't jeopardize your life to go after these sites. You have to find a way to get the site down without being killed. So. If I may, a second? Just to go to your question, the lovebug virus, they also have databases of what people have done. This guy was previously up on the radar. What's going on now is pretty much, we're way behind on that level of having information about people and who they are someday we would love to be there. And really, that's what's starting to generate now with the work Natasha's doing and Loxy's doing with generating this information, tracking down and setting up these data warehouses for the lack of a better term.