 Hello ladies and gentlemen today. Glad to have you guys on this lovely panel. So for the attendees today we are discussing how Martek will be changing in the in the new normal. So before we get into that topic I just thought it'd be good for all of us to introduce ourselves. So I'm Gautam and I am the chief data officer and CEO of a programmatic and dense wages network. So what I love doing is building products and data driven marketing is really what excites me. So which is why I'm very very happy to be here. I think I'll just call out your name possibly and then you could introduce ourselves. So Kerri why don't you go first. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for the thanks for having me here. My name is Kerri. I am actually with Acoustic a Martek company that has been acquired by a private equity from IBM. So we were acquired last year and we are now a you know fully functioning company. So I'm based out of Singapore and I hit marketing for Asia Pacific in Japan. Ashwin why don't you go. Thanks Gautam. Hello everyone. Very happy to be here. Name is Ashwin Valodi. I lead up the advertising marketing and commerce function and capability for Deloitte in India and help you know my whole range is to work with clients in this space of AMC advertising marketing commerce digital marketing transformation and happy to be here. Look forward to the conversation and let's see what learnings we hear from the audience as well as amongst us. Okay. Thanks Ashwin. Thanks a lot. Prabhakar would you want to go next? Okay. Hi everyone. Prabhakar Diwari here. I'm CMO with Angel Broking and as a part of my responsibility I take care of performance marketing brand marketing and PR functions for Angel Broking. We are three decades old startup in a way that's the mindset with which we operate and I'm happy to be here today to kind of discuss with you and learn with you about the new Martek and you know what's really happening in happening during COVID-19 now. Yeah. Thanks Prabhakar. Ashwin could we get back to you now or do you think you have Vishwaleed Salli? Vishwaleed, do you have internet now or? I'm sure. I hope I'm audible because there's like bad internet. That's the new normal nowadays, right? Right. Yeah. We could hear you if you could just keep it a bit more closer. I think it'll be even better but yeah we can hear you. I'll try to be as loud as possible. Guys, I am Vishwajit Parashar. I am Chief Marketing Officer Bajaj Kapil. Bajaj Kapil is a financial services organization with more than 3.5 million clients, five decade old organization. We're basically a retail player advising people on where, when and how to invest and help them achieve their financial goals and as of now we started with a brick and mortar model when we started. Move to tech plus tech, tech plus touch and now I think today we can say that we are 100% digital great, great, fantastic. So I think you have a good very lovely mix here for the audience today. So we've got Keri who's from this tech startup that's kind of acquired by IBM already and it's a marketing cloud, right? Keri that you guys have and Prabhakar from Angel Broking on the other side, one of the early adopters of the online securities space and evolved in that perspective. Ashwin from Deloitte Digital, I think it's again, you know, fantastic fusion from the consultancy legacy to the digital practice and then Vishwaj from Bajaj's Capital, again legacy finance but then how they've transformed into a digital company. So I think this is a great, absolutely great panel. So before we get into the heavy stuff of Mark Tech, I thought like maybe I just be a bit more humanizing the conversation here and figure out that. What are you guys up to in terms of, you know, I mean, it's a lockdown. I'm sure everyone has their own way of dealing with it but are you currently binge watching anything or are you currently, you know, reading some books that you think that is really inspiring you or what you want to share with the audience? You could go in any order but I think just because we are not face to face I'll kind of still prompt. So why don't you say that first, Prabhakar? Okay, so see I'm very lucky because we were blessed with a baby girl in the month of Jan and so my girl is, yeah, thanks a lot, turned four months yesterday. So this lockdown came as a blessing for me. So I have plenty of time to be with her and I'm so busy with her that I don't have time for binge watching. So other than work and loving my wife, you know, but she takes most of my time. Wow, that's fantastic. Lovely to hear that. Kenny, what about you? For me, congratulations on your new baby. Thank you. For me, I've actually been catching up on reading. So I've got a goal of like, you know, finishing X amount of books by 2020. So I've got more time now to read. My list. So yeah, that's that's been any topic for the audience? Anything that you suggest? Actually, the one that has been quite interesting is actually a couple of books. One is Educated by Tara Weston and another one is called Pachinko, which is by a Korean author. So it's very interesting. So yeah, if anyone has. Great, thanks. Yeah. And Vishwa, do you want to go next? Yeah, so I come from a place called Delhi, which is normally known for pollution. So these days, I'm spending more time on yoga and because the air is so fresh, you can hear the chirping of the birds in Delhi, at least. Well, reading is also changed. The habit has also changed there also. I normally love reading physical books, but the Blinkist app, which has recently and you know, so 12 minutes to audio and you can read a book. So I'm going that phase because initially you always want to learn so much. You always want to read so much, but now I think digital has made it possible. So from digital transformation books to spiritualism, Jaggi Vasudev's, Jim Collins. Brilliant, brilliant. So Vishwa is actually epitomizing Bajaj capital themselves, right? I mean, from the legacy of yoga to Blinkist app and 100% transformation. I think that's a lovely, lovely way, Vishwa, to talk about the lockdown. Yeah, Shreem, why don't you go next? Yeah, thanks. I think great to hear. Hey, congrats for the new bond. Thank you. I think for us, for me, it's been two fronts on the work front. It's been actually surprisingly quite busy. So we've not missed a beat in 24 hours of the company, Lloyd, that has been digital. Everyone was working remote client support. It was just, I could not believe that it was that robust. And it has all worked out very well, knock on wood. And on the personal front, a lot of, as Vishwa Ji mentioned, a lot of... Yeah, I would say I have enjoyed some binge watching, especially. So I'm almost beginning to get done with some content in one of the streaming platforms, which is quite scary. So let's see. But some great, great, but not all movies, more education. Good, good videos. There's one I'm watching now around engineering connections. It's how this is about how can different large scale structures be built in the world, fascinating things to learn and see with the kids. Lovely. Good stuff. But yeah, binge watching as well. Great. Fantastic. So I think we can dive into our topic. And so just bringing the audience back into this is that we're discussing today about MaTeC and how it's going to play a role in the changing new normal post lockdown in this COVID-19 scenario, and even in the years to come from there. So just the first question I want to keep it open to everyone is that, definitely everyone's, every organization is rethinking how they're operating and there are lots of changes happening internally as well as on the external side to the client facing whatever your client may be, whether it's B2B or B2C. How do you think in all of these conversations is MaTeC coming up? And how do you see that to kind of like, what kind of place will it hold in the conversations that you'll have with clients or with partners or with vendors in the coming months? So depending on which position you are from, how would you think that this would be actually changing in the immediate next, I would say three months, if you can limit it first to the next three months and then we can talk about a little longer thing. So again, it's open, but I'll just kind of prompt around because since everyone's onto it, I think, Keri, do you want to start off with that from a technology point of view? How do you think this is going to change? Sure, I mean, I think it's an understatement to say that the acceleration to digital has not been more acute in the last few months where everything has been moving. And I mean, I think in terms of the changes that we see in the market, one is that acceleration, but I think also we are seeing that because of the shift, we see that there are more non-digital natives who are obviously now online and we see a lot more struggle that they are facing as they're doing checkouts and all that kind of stuff as they're trying to purchase groceries, they're trying to do, it's like a different world altogether and people have less appetite for that, right? So that's one thing that we actually see, but I think where we have also seen like businesses that have already started like investing in moving to a martech or rebuilding their online platforms and stuff, it's in a way timely because they are actually launching now. So for example, we were actually working with Marks and Spencer, who actually launched their India e-commerce platform last week and that's something that we've been working with them. But it's like, in a way it's timely, but it's one of those where you really need to already start if you've not already started. So that's kind of what we also see happening in the market. Right, very interesting perspective about new users coming on. And we take it for granted that the user would be on the internet and would know how to simple tasks, but even something like a checkout could be hard for a first time e-commerce user. That's very valuable. Vishwa, do you want to kind of like add to that? Bajas Tappati, how are you seeing these conversations go about? Yeah, sure. So I think every organization post COVID is very clear about costs. So there is a good cost and there is a bad cost. So initially, spending more on buying another tower for our employees or more infrastructure, so now that has changed. So initially, the digital is not an option. It is important. And what we really feel is the good cost is when you're spending money on MaTeX, where how can you connect to the consumer? How can you give that seamless experience? And this is something you have to, what you used to think we will provide, but now it is the most important thing in today's time. So giving that seamless experience, spending money on the MaTeX has become the order of the day for us. And within overnight, we have changed from tech plus touch to digital organization. So communication, the way we are communicating with the clients, how can we solve their pain areas? It's not just by sending emails that we take care of our employees, we take care of, we get concerned about your health, but how can we solve their pain areas and what as a brand we can do for them? So that is, I think what is that we're really thinking about. And I think during this period, as a brand, we thought of not selling a product, but how can we stick to a purpose of helping our consumers? That is the most important thing. And we really wanted to show how concerned are you about their health. So we launched various initiatives where we're really talking about their health, not just as a simple email, but we are doing webinars with them, we're trying to help them, how to be motivated in these times and product will automatically sell later on. So we're not concerned about profitability right now. We are more for the purpose, how we are connecting with our consumers, how can we give more personalized experience? It's not about revenues anymore. If we sustain this period, I think that would be the big breakthrough for us. Yeah, I agree. I mean, can I just add to that? I mean, so there was actually, there's actually a study that was done in Australia, where based on like what we've, which Wajid had actually mentioned, it's like consumers are actually demanding that actually brands go beyond just a superficial, sort of like, do nice or be nice. They actually expect the brand to actually do better than the business as usual. So that's something that we definitely also see in different parts of the market and staying true to your brand values, I think that's really one of the key things here. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I mean, the fact that you mentioned how customer experience actually trumps profitability at this time and how if you just sustain through this profit would, I think maybe automatically come after that. It's a very interesting proposition compared to what we hear with some, just to add from a financial services perspective, my feeling is that next six, seven, eight months, people will learn to live with COVID and push that some medicines will come and pharma companies will grow. But during this phase, what my feeling is companies with less revenue or only sticking about profitability will not survive, sustainability by helping customers with existing customers will be the order of the day. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. So Ashwin, do you wanna add to this from your background, from your context, how you're seeing the way these clients you speak to, talking about Motec right now? Yeah, yeah, I think I just want to kind of echo some of the sentiments which then Kerry kind of talked about. But I think from our standpoint in Deloitte, I think a few key themes or trends are emerging, especially Gautam as you were asking, right, in the next three, four months. You know, see, we strongly believe or I strongly believe that what will happen is, see, over the years you had Motec or marketing function, sometimes carry what I call the history of experience debt, experience debt, which is occasionally through all the right and wrong intentions, treating customers impersonally, not able to empathize, be as Vishwa rightly said, chasing after revenue and daily sales, whatever the pressure might be and all justified, I'm sure it's all justified. What we believe is that this is the time when brands will have to inflex and make a choice, you know, and that choice and you will like put it, we'll give some more words to it from our vocabulary, which is what we call stressing on the human experience, you know, which has got four or five key things, you know, which is, and you all said it, I mean, really empathizing and connecting with that potential customer, rather than, and there are many experiences, there are many experiences for clients where they have done that, you know, Keri, you mentioned some, Vishwa, you were talking about some examples from your company. So there are many examples, we see a day in and day out where brands have changed, they have got in the FMCG business, in the essentials business, in financial services, they have changed, they have kind of, and the savvy CMO is using this opportunity to get rid of what I call the experience debt that that organization may have incurred, you know, I'm curious to hear, especially what Prabhakar and Vishwa has to say in that, because you all are in those functions, that's one. Second, what is happening, the three, four trends, you know, we see the other trend towards being more authentic, you know, rather than just kind of answer things in black and white, there is a lot of ability of brands to associate or CMO functions to associate and connect with the consumer's context or the customer's context in a more human manner and what we call the human experience, you know, and then obviously as you all said, it will bring the business anyhow, okay, that is one. The third thing is durability while doing this process. This is the part of, the business is being durable, you know, not just for this transaction, for this event, because we did a study, I mean, there was a study done by a large educational institute which said across all calamities, okay, across all calamities that have happened in the past 50, 60 years, three trends emerged, it was quite fascinating, one is there was a percentage of companies that did not recover out of case, that kind of had their head stuck in the sand and could not recover. There were 11 to 12% that did substantially outbid their pre-COVID performance and then the others will struggle to come back to status quo. So what CMOs and the digital marketing function should do is try to be in that first bucket where you really inflex going from a certain pace, you really go up. Those are the things that we are looking for, we are advising our clients very aggressively, there are concrete plans happening and lots of things with all things, you know, we call this framework what we call respond, recover and thrive, so three things, you know, you respond quickly that we are past that, you set a recovery in motion, we are in that phase and then the thrive phase will come and you got to make most of it and believe me, the CMO function, two of you are here need to really take the lead on this, really as they say, right? In a good times, CMOs must spend, but in bad times, you have to spend, you have to, okay? And we wish them all the good luck in doing it and then there is a set of tools around it, but we'll talk some sure on that. So that's how I would put it. Sure, thanks Ashwin for that. I think valuable advice, Prabhakar, do you want to chime in on this? Yeah, so very interesting to hear, Carrie and Ashwin and Vashuji talk about these things. See, somewhere there are a couple of flavors I would like to add. So when, I mean, before pre-COVID, pre-COVID days we used to talk about disruption as a most interesting word, right? Everywhere people are talking about disruptive experience, disruptive this, disruptive that, you know, last four, five years, we're hearing it a lot more, okay? Now, this is disruption on steroids, you know? Yeah, I don't think anyone thought that when there's a disruption that they'll face this party. Yeah, very true. It's on steroids. The truth of disruption is disruption. Yeah, it's on steroids, you know, and it's here to kind of, you know, take you for good and it's here to stay, you know, this is what it is, you know? Having said that, this is how I look at it. Honestly, like, you know, this is how kind of, you know, this is my filter, my lens in which I look at, like, what's happening around me. Now, as far as the category, my company is concerned, you know, this COVID-19 has been blessing in disguise. I mean, because stock markets were falling, in the sense, prices were falling, like, a lot of people took interest in getting into the stock market in terms of opening their DMAT accounts. So in the month of March, you know, which saw the largest fall in the stock prices, saw almost like 40% more DMAT accounts opening. So 40% more people entered the market to kind of, you know, kind of deal in stocks. And for the first time, Angel Broking did one lakh DMAT account opening in a single month. That was a record for us. Almost like 30, 40% growth for us. Okay, that was amazing. And not just that, you know, normally when people open a DMAT account, they do not start trading immediately. They make some time, okay? They just kind of become interested, open an account, but then now they have to choose about the stock, they have to become onboarded, they need to understand the app, et cetera, et cetera. So let me share some stats with you. So in pre-COVID, with the day zero, day zero means the same day when you open your account, the people who were kind of starting to trade was X percentage, that increased by five times, five-fold, you know, in the COVID era. So not only people were in a hurry to open a DMAT account, but they were in a hurry to trade as well, okay? What happened because of that? So first of all, as soon as the lockdown were announced, there was a lot of confusion, you know, across the organization. And the framework that, you know, Ashwin was sharing with us about like, you know, respond, you know, so we had to respond, right? So we kind of got into kind of getting more laptops organized. We got into getting a letter issued to us. Stock market also becomes like an essential service because both the state and central government didn't want to close stock market, right? We started using Zoom, Google Meet more often. The team started focusing on how to manage day-to-day operations because tech is involved, ops is involved. So all of that happened. And we recovered from that. And to be honest with you, the buoyancy in the category also held. So we were not at all kind of disappointed or in a disarray because we know that business is happening and business is going at certain pace. So somewhere coming back to it. So as a marketing team, we realized the opportunity to kind of get a lot of organic leads. So we focused on more and more organic conversion. We look at our attribution models. We got into like more data-driven attribution model so that we can keep our expense on the right keel. So that was important for us. We also got into a lot of content marketing and using more empathy, more humor, more optimistic kind of messaging. So we started using that more and more. And the most surprising thing is we also started spending on television during this period. Because one of our hypothesis was that now people are in lockdown. So they're at home. And because they're interested in stock market, so many of them will be listening to business news. So why not we be there? So to summarize it, I think somewhere also we had gone into programmatic journey last year with DV360, GCM and all. And now we want to move into CDP and GA360. So those meetings started happening more frequently. And most probably this month, we will sign up with a partner and we will kind of take our market to the next level. So that's from my side on this topic. Thanks Prabhakar. You are very insightful. And I think on the flip side of COVID, you guys are an industry which is actually benefiting a lot. So it's interesting to see that how you are seeing like a forex increase or in your account opening, service increase in your, I know how hard it is to get the transaction to go over to the few security clients in my lifetime and that the cost of active account opening is kind of an, that's really, really tough to do. So I just, I mean, since I think you spoke about a few things, I wanna start with you and then kind of like, I have a question directed because what you spoke and then go back to the others. So the first one I think is you mentioned about you know, this increase in the first day trade or you know, the person signing up on day zero and then kind of freak over and post COVID. So how do you see now, once you've like, you know, you've tasted blood, right? So now that you've seen this increase happen and you know how that is and you've seen having low, you've seen low cost of acquisition because of organic, how do you see this time to actually build a long-term CLV model for your marketing rather than going back to a simple CPL or you know, cost per interest lead which is typically how the industry works on. How do you see it moving from that into more of a CLV or a LTV kind of a model? Would you, once things get back to normal and you increase paid advertising, would you still continue to look at CLV as a primary metric or would you then go back to, you know, something like a CPL, CPIL interested leads kind of your metrics we have into that and then kind of like your attribution models to calculate at the back end. So just wanted to have views on that. So there are two parts by which I can respond to your questions. The first part is that, see, we don't look at CLV so much to be honest with you. We are focused more on CTR, cost to revenue ratio. Like we have an idea for all of our lead channels, what is the first year revenue? And that first year revenue, we try to kind of divide it by a digital COA and try to get a sense of what is the cost to revenue ratio. So when we decide for a particular month, we look at a particular lead channel from an angle that how the CTR performances. So that's where the revenue linkages happen. Okay, so that's point number one. In terms of how we will do it in future, we are now integrating AppsFlyer and CleverTap. So CleverTap we use a lot more for our, you know, app usage analytics and you know, journey within the app, in-app advertising and all of that. So now that we're integrating with the AppsFlyer, a lot of revenue data will start flowing into AppsFlyer anyways. So in the AppsFlyer attribution model, now a lot of custom match, audience, cohort analysis, all of that will happen within AppsFlyer. So that's one focus area for us in next one or two months. The second is that, you know, we realize the importance of lot of personalization, customer journey orchestration using all lead channels for which what was missing was GA360, the premium analytics for us. So that's the next implementation of GA360 and with a Google audience manager and Google optimized, we will get into more of a web-level personalization and more into kind of, you know, customer journey orchestration. So that's kind of in the pipeline for us. Great, it makes sense. So picking up on that, what you just mentioned Prabhakar about this personalization, I had a question for you is that, you know, you spoke about similar things of connecting consumer to seamless experiences and brand engagements. So one of the things we often hear like, I mean Prabhakar just mentioned a lot of technology, a lot of jargons and stuff and a lot of integration of systems. You know, how do you see, you know, a lot of times I see that technology is kind of like, the curve of technology is actually at a much higher rate than what we can adapt it, right? So our adoption rate, adaption rate are, you know, maximizing utility from technology is generally lags behind the only progress that happens. So how do you see it? Birla, you being able to leverage this tech in to create these kind of personalizations. Was it an effort, right? Personalizations means rather than making one creative or making hundreds of creatives, you're tweaking them out. So it's a lot more work. So how do you see yourself being able to do that with your partners? How does it affect your costs of communication? Does it, you know, what kind of years do you see? So if you can just shed some light on that, that'll be fantastic for the audience. Also, before you start, there's one thing for the audience. If you want to please send questions across, you can, we have some time slot for Q&A. So we have about, I think, maybe we'll have 10 to 15 minutes in the end. So if you have questions, then please, you can raise them out. And if you have time, we'll pick a few of them and answer that as well. So sorry, back to you, Ishwar, all yours. Welcome, unlike stock trading company, Balazs Capital is more of a financial distribution of multi-products. So it's not about, just talks, it's about mutual funds, life insurance, bonds, et cetera. And the DNA of the organization is, you know, to have a relationship-based relationship with the clients, not a transactional-based relationship. So we have even third generation of investors dealing with us. So their grandfather, their fathers, and all their children are also dealing with us. So we believe in that relationship-based mode of dealing with clients. And how it works is, you know, so normally we acquire our clients, India is a, let me put it truly, India is a financially literate country. You have to do a lot of education to help them understand why they should plan. People have a lot of time to plan their itineraries for foreign trips, but they don't have time for their financial planning. So that's the true reality of our country. And so we spend a lot of time in educating people. So if you are educating people and take the first step, let's say if he's buying the first ship, which I'm saying a campaign, so if he's buying the first ship or buying the first term plan, that is where we build upon our relationships. And that is where we come, you know, try to give him a complete holistic approach about his lifetime, financial lifetime. And the communication accordingly goes like this. You know, you have planned for your children, what about retirement? What about your, you know, other goals? So we try to create a need, hidden need, which is always there in the clients. We try to inculcate that need through our communication. So we are never in a hurry to, you know, close the relationship after first transaction because whatever you earn in the first transition would be just 200 rupees. So that is, anyways, the model will not survive. So ship doesn't give you that much of money. So you have to build that relationship and that is how the entire market personalization, whether it's a take plus touch or not now, which is not totally into a digital. So whatever that could move on online has moved on online. And it is not about product, it is about an individual. So the way we see our clients as an individual and on these various journeys in life, we try to connect with him, whether it's birthday, his marriage anniversary. So these, there are various points where, you know, the client is receptive about your communication. So there are a movement of troops which we have already analyzed and we work upon the same. And again, you know, on the technology front. So again, you know, we try to not just educate, but it's a regular process. So it's not about the transaction. So we try to send him a communication about, you know, his goals, his needs and educating about what is happening to his portfolio. So, you know, sometimes a lot of advisors, what they do is they transact and they close. But every six months we go and try to do a portfolio review with them. So when you do a portfolio review and they feel that this is a company which is not here to just to sell. It is here to have, you know, something more than what we believe in. And that is where the personalization starts and believe you me, Indian, Indian customers, if they trust someone, they really go for a lifetime. But because a lot of financial companies have taken a lot of mistrust, whether it is a plantation companies or you know, a lot of companies fly by that operators. So if you develop that trust, that is what works best for us. And that will always believe in the customer's lifetime value and not about, you know, cost of customer acquisition. Yeah, I think that's, I think the last time summarized it beautifully is that it's not about CAQ, but it's about LTD. I think that's what you should keep your focus on. So, you know, Ashwin, just wanted to drop a question on to you and extension to this is that, you know, you spoke something which would be music to many agencies years of, you know, in good times, AMOs were spent, but in bad times, they should spend more. Yeah. So how are you seeing this conversation with brands? I'm sure there's a good mix of, you know, different companies at different stages, struggling with, you know, various kinds of issues, right? Some are, I mean, some have direct cash flow issues, some are talking about infra, some have labor. And you know, there's so many dynamics to this, right? And in that, when you, when you go to a firm and you say that, you know, this is the time when you should actually invest, you know, like how we mentioned about good costs and bad costs and good costs are more tech and stuff like that, right? So, you know, how do you suggest that this conversation be taken up and what are the reactions you are seeing in the conversations you're having right now? Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. Gautam, I think what's happening is obviously like in any other trend, you can't, the devil is in the double click of the detail, right? Because you can't generalize and say all finance companies would work like how Vishwajit is doing. Yeah, at least set the constraints and the opportunities are across the range. So what is happening? I think what's happening is when you talk any sector, let's say essential, there are a few, I'll step back and then I'll answer your question. I see there are a few things that I think we have echoed really nicely on this haul and video VC so far. You see, there are trends that the CMO for the first. So you're actually there again losing your bit in the midi. Okay, is this better? Yeah, yeah, much better. Yeah, yeah, all right. So I'm saying that is that we are saying just taking a step back is what all of us talked about. Is this now it seems to be the overriding need for empathy and concern. What we are trying to tell clients is this human experience chain should be your proposition all throughout not just on this transaction. Because when we do surveys, when we talk primary research, when we consumers of all varieties would like to be working with trusted brands that they can trust with and will feel that they are empathizing with that consumer during that consumer's life stages. What did that brands do that? You can see the marketing functions do that. Now, based on what I said, there is a whole gamut say consumers need to be product software requirements in terms of how consumers are really reacting to this time. And the, I'm hearing my voice is not clear. Is that clear? Yeah? Yeah, it comes and goes a bit. It comes and goes. Yeah, yeah. All right, let me lean into the video. Yeah, so I think what is happening is in all of the two trends that we are seeing is there are a group of companies that are saying this is the time to what I call sharpen your swords and get ready for day one. What they are calling day one is once we learn to live with this COVID, okay? Once we learn to live with this, how should brands react? And there are, there is spend happening. And there is also a set of entrepreneurial brands and other organizations that are saying, look, let me conserve cash to the point about the mute. Let me conserve cash. Let me wait and watch. My company and organization was led during that space. We are a fast follower or a follower at best. We will adapt, okay? We will see how the spends are. The other trend we are seeing is people are expecting that during this dip in performance metrics that one brand or one company is about, that their ecosystem shares and empathizes with that logo for as an example, to give you an example. So let's say somewhere the supply chain is bottlenecked, okay? You can't get products. The assortment mix is not working. Ashwin, I can be lost a bit out there, but yeah. I think we are most of it is the last bit. Most of it, okay. So the assortment mix is not working out. So what brands and companies are expecting is all the suppliers, the third party logistics, the communications parties and the agencies and the organization work with them to solve that, okay? To solve this full ecosystem so that they come back to action as soon as possible. So two broad trends and it obviously unfortunate is the typical consulting answer of it depends because what's happening is each it for its own reality and saying, look for me, managing capital is paramount. So I will now, some guys are saying, tech companies are saying, this is hash rich. They're saying, this is the time to double down and really distance ourselves. You can see literally got them all aspects. And I think the, my prediction, my personal prediction is the wheat and the shaft will get far because it'll depend on how companies react. And hopefully they all take actions with the reality but also looking at what's possible. So that would be my answer to how you kind of go. Thanks, that should make sense. So, Keri, over to you. I had one question from your unique position where you are kind of a marketing clouds. You are a tech player plus services built on top of that for clients, not typically an agency and not a publisher. So from your perspective, are you seeing that organizations are willing to make investments like big investments in marketing at the moment or do they want to kind of maximize on what they already have currently and don't want to kind of make major shifts at the moment? Because it's a, both ways is a great way, right? I mean, one is that this is the best time. Systems are not as running in full speed. Customers are not at the POS right now. Maybe I make an investment now. The other hand is that I make a big cost right now and kind of like, let's try and just take a step back and see how we can connect things better. So what is it from your perspective, how are you seeing these things move? I think I'll take a page out of Asherin's book and say that it really depends on the organization and how they, their approaches, right? I mean, so where we have seen businesses already have invested, they are doubling down because, so for example, we actually have a retailer in the UK at a company called Seesaw and they have actually been investing in how to actually optimize like customer struggles, identifying like where the areas that they actually fix first using analytics and all. But then they actually are looking and they have actually invested and implementing where they can actually identify the most profitable journey, right? Because at the end of the day, all these different things actually have impact on the bottom line. So, you know, they're actually looking at, okay, does it mean that, you know, mobile, mobile, web, mobile, you know, what is the most profitable journey? And they're trying to make sure that they are actually identifying those and making the most impact on that. So, you know, so I think it really depends. I mean, I think as a marketer and even as a business, right? With all the different changes that's happening, the whole rip and replace, you know, I don't think people have the appetite with all the changes that's going on as well. So, you know, so we have also seen that, you know, you want to be able to, you know, start small and to be able to actually connect with a lot of the systems. I mean, just now PT was talking about all the different types of technologies that he's already implementing and he has implemented and it's looking to implement. We are also seeing that, right? I mean, as a marketer, because so many different technologies, we need to make sure that it all kind of works together as well and not just work together, but you also want to be able to future proof because you don't know what's coming as well. So, I think that's also one of the things that we see, right? So, you want to make sure that it's open enough to be able to work with the different technologies that you actually have. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Can I just add, you know, can I add a point there? Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, just a thing to react. I think you can switch off the camera. I think you'll be much more audible. Yeah, maybe it's a bandwidth issue. I think Vishuji is right. Possibly you could just try that. Yeah, the video, is this better? Yeah, I think it is, yeah. Better, Vishuji? It's a little better. Little better, okay. So, let's do it this way. Yeah, what I was saying is that two trends might come to what Kerry just said. See, we should expect a more tech space. So actually, sorry Ashwin, it's, we do, I think, I think a video was not the issue because the audio is still going and coming. Okay. So, yeah, I can say video visual expressions now, so that's good. Yeah. So we can, I can hear you all quite well, but I guess it seems all right here. But going back to what just the point I wanted to make was that, see there will be consolidation. Consolidation is part of the landscape. There are about 8,000 in the space and it just can't be like that, okay? So, you will have this normal chain of, let's say different startups, their funds, drivers, players, consolidating. And you will see some people, just like the last financial crisis, some people kind of came out of that crisis stronger as for vendors. You will see perhaps that thing happening here. Yeah. Just to answer the question, I think this is unknown, the fear that is today is very unknown. Nobody has seen this kind of a risk. So, brands are thinking, every complexity brings an opportunity. So, like the way PT was saying, they're seeing the surge in the business. Even we are also seeing a lot of surge in the queries. So we have just started chat boards to answer the queries, which we never used to do before. And a lot of people are talking about inquiring about insurance, medical claims. So this is suddenly a new change. So you have to just shift your business from one product to another. And maybe that works very well. And I think in times to come, sustainability of the brands who are really concerned, who are really giving a human experience to the clients will come up. And I think in next six, seven months, you will see a lot of brands who have grown multiple, whereas a lot of companies who have not consolidated, who have not given that experience to their customers may not survive. So that could be the reality. No, I think a lot of the things that, I mean, we keep hearing, right, it's about going back and being true to what your company stands for and what your brand values are. And really, making sure that you are treating the customer right, because I think that's kind of like where it kind of shows, right? And I mean, I think even like as a marketeer, it really goes back to basics, right? In terms of what's the core of marketing and how do you actually improve the customer experience? Because customers actually have even less patience, and online some more, they have even less tolerance when things go wrong, right? So, I think that's- I'm one of them. Yeah, we see. Yeah. So, yeah, I think there's a great question from the audience that came in, which I think I would have loved to ask the panel myself. It's by Anjana Grewal. So any one of you who wants to pick it up, she asks during this period, how are companies guiding relationship marketing within the marketing and sales teams, right? So, I mean, so I think the question's already is that, you know, you've seen this agile pace, this fintech pace at which you've not really worked, you know, this reorientation with an organization, which is a great thing. But at the same time, how do we actually orchestrate our own internal marketing and sales teams, our comms teams, to actually work in sync, right? Because like we said, for the consumers, there's no sales team, there's no marketing team, there's nothing, it's just one brand that they're interacting with, right? And, you know, that old way, I think of customer service, or if you call a toll-free number and then we'll get back, I think that's kind of gonna be dead. At the same time, the opportunities that exist in prospecting your customer today is gonna be far, far more, you know, informed. So what advice do you have for, how are you dealing with it? I mean, I'm sure we don't all have the answers to it, but what are the struggles you are facing and how are you dealing with it? What would be a great way to, what would be a great understanding for all of us, including me, I would love to know this. I would just like to answer a few things. I don't know whether that answers or not. But as P.T. was mentioning, you know, first few days, everybody was settling down, there was no pause, there was beatings. And, you know, what we realize is 25% people in office can be, work can go on, you know, work from home culture is suddenly a new normal. So cost has come down because of that and productivity has increased double. So that is what most of the brands are feeling, work from home is becoming really, really sustainable thing. And it's not going to go very easily, which I see. What as a marketing, what we're realizing is, there are a lot of pain areas at the ground with salespeople and if you can answer that because they are looking for a right communication at this point of time to the clients. And if you can help them with right messaging, if you can help them with right WhatsApp messages, they would really love it. And, you know, you understand, even the sales is also going to a big transformation. They also need to maintain their revenue targets. So if you can help that, you know, how can you help salespeople retain their revenues, retain their margins? That is going to be the big collaboration point. And I think marketing role has increased drastically post-COVID and for the first time, even sales is respecting, honoring and say what not to the marketing because they are most of the time dependent on marketing now, ever before. Right. So just want to add to what Vishuji shared. You know, we are lucky because, you know, last year we kind of decided to move on from a feet-on-street model to a telecollar-based model. So today, if I look at it like, you know, all of us are digital. So there's a telecollar part to it, you know, but the fact is that all of us are digitally inclined to be marketing team, sales team, and even service team. And all of us are focused on DIY. So we are focused on DIY journey. With the sales team, we promote it. And there's a DIY journey on onboarding from the service time and they're also promoting it. Right. But what I want to say is that you're right. Today, it's a boundary-less behavior for the customer. It doesn't matter whether it is a marketing team which has got them in with a false promise or sales team which has kind of, you know, got them in with kind of a swearing on top. I like the qualification there. I just want to kind of... At the end of the day, like they are paying for it, you know, and they get what their money is worth, you know, and then plus anything else is additional, is good. So fundamentally, there's one more advantage we have. Now, today, our mobile app, you know, what we call AVMA lead source, you know, which we do UAC campaign, Facebook campaign, TikTok campaign, and other campaigns, is almost 50, 55% of our total monthly lead volume and around 60% of our total account opening, conversion in a month. Right. And if you look at app, you know, it has the combination of marketing, even sales to that degree, because there's a DIY journey which we have now natively built inside the app. So entire DIY journey, customer doesn't need to move from an app environment to web environment. It can be done in app environment as well. And to the service onboarding team, which can get the first rate done by the customer using notification, in-app notification, and other notification, et cetera, et cetera, and also offering them some incentive, like 100 rupees stock free or brokerage free and all of that, right? So the point I want to make is in the context of my organization, you know, we work very closely together because we have a common territory like apps, you know, where a lot of productions bear fruits. And second, as Vishuji rightly said, we are kind of giving them newer script at the telecom level on how to kind of deal with customers where you still have to talk to them over phone and also to our service team in terms of newer content for emails, newer videos, you know, and newer other content marketing output. So we're all working together on this. And as I think Vishuji has said, you know, this is not the year of thriving. This is the year of surviving. I think if you survive this year, I mean, that is a win. You know, so that's how it is. Yeah. So one line, that is if you link everybody's salary to the organizational goal, everybody will be corrected to each other. Yeah, I think that's the entrepreneurial side, right? I think that always does help if you have a common goal, common incentive in that all of us. So I think I have time for one more question. I think this one is also interesting that I think we can pick up. So, you know, of course, there have been certain products. I think like, you know, Prabhakar Brokerage, I think has moved from being person to person to telecalling to digital and that has got to the transition. But there are a lot of businesses that are not maybe so digitally attuned right up front as of now, you know. So how do you actually, when you're having the meeting in person is not possible and there's this deficiency that tech has to kind of like, you know, fill up, right? How do you get that person touch still into it? You know, so, you know, for example, I've not gone to the website, but I was just seeing today on product hunt that there is someone who's doing virtual wedding planning, right? So it's not just virtually wedding planning, but the wedding is virtual. So it's a virtual wedding planning. So I mean, but how do you think that, you know, how do you think that organizations can do this at scale? So I've spoken a lot about messaging in there. Any specific examples that you can think of that could be, you know, how you can generate a one-to-one relationship with a customer who typically is not used to interacting with you on a digital touch point. I can give an example, you know. So I was in one such kind of, you know, panel discussion and one of my colleagues from insurance business. So he shared that earlier they had the sales team in Centi was based on how much customer they have signed up for that particular month. And now that the organization has moved on to make customer acquisition digitally, the trouble was that how will salespeople on their incentive, et cetera, et cetera. So what they have done, they have initiated something which was very interesting name. I'm not recalling the name, but it was like dial to call. It means the first touch with the customer happens with the insurance agent and the distributor over a phone call virtually. Okay, very interesting. And that's how they start, you know. So then whatever step the customer goes through the journey that happens, but the first call between the, you know, it's like a fidgeting. So there's a physicality to it. And, you know, and that way, the incentive is also safeguarded for the salesperson. And the customer also gets to kind of, you know, associate the company with a single person who the customer can go back to, you know, in case they do not turn out to be all right. Now that you're mentioning this is also, I'm remembering IndeCint also done something I remember on the video call to your branch manager, right? You could kind of have a video call with your personal banker branch manager setup. I think that time may not have been taken up that much, but I think today would be, you know, lovely welcome to have to any bank account, right? That you can speak to someone one-on-one and ask them a few things about maybe the new tax regime or something like that, which you don't get to ask otherwise. Yeah, I think that's a very good example. So I think if I just, we have only about two or three minutes, I just wanted to kind of summarize a bit for the audience. And then of course, if you, you know, type of as we can add on to it, any of you can do that. So I think what I picked up most was, I think Kerry, I think you were the first to go. And one thing that stuck with me was, you know, the new users coming in, right? And that's such an important thing that you have new users coming into on the internet, on your website, on your app, and you just can't take it for granted that they would behave the same way as the previous cohorts did. And I think that kind of makes the case for Martek even more, right? That how do you actually crack all of these new consumers? You know, Prabhakar mentioned that the, you know, the first time guys coming in, they're transacting right away, whereas normally it would have taken some time. So the behavior of these new users is very different while some places it's becoming more frictionless. Some places the friction is increasing. So how do we maximize that much time and how do we kind of reduce the loss on the other side? So I think that's a great take out for me. And then, you know, which one I think you spoke, I think what stuck with me was when you said, you know, good costs and bad costs. I think that was, you know, a very important thing because when you're looking to say sustained, you know, you have to have to have cost cut costs. But, you know, what costs are you cutting down? I think that is a very important part to it. You're going to keep investing in the good costs and the bad costs. And, you know, of course, Ashwin, you definitely gave me a reason to have a drink today in the evening when you said that, you know, in good times, the emotional spend, but in bad times, you spend more, so. Yeah, anything for, yeah, anything to add to that. So I think for me that is the largest take out. But yeah, I think that there is a lot of truth to that is that, you know, we, I've seen advertisers struggle, you know, about with SOV, right? And now you just have a virgin territory, right? So you can get 100% SOV if you would like. So if your M.I. models prove that SOV is what gives you sales, you should advertise now. Gautam, there is a new thing that is emerging is online parties. Online parties, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we do it as well. I have two online parties every week with two such friends. Only one person can have 100% SOV, Gautam, but it's not Goswami. I don't know. Very clearly rightly said. And I think, Prabhakar, what you mentioned was also very interesting was, you know, how the other side is of this COVID red house, certain sectors like your offerings and products, like you know, taking a huge, you know, uptake. And you know, the whole disruption point, right? I mean that, you know, we always think of disruption, but now that's happened to us, you know, where are all the chief innovative officers at the hand and what are they doing about this disruption? You know, so I think that's the key learning. I think more organizations, there is not one person, but I think in the organization, I think more and more everyone's learning is that, you know, we have to work together. It's not about one department or one person, but literally the whole organization working together is what's gonna make us feel through this and make us far more, you know, for us to thrive in the third leg if I may take Ashwin's word for that. I'm very happy to see that you actually went on to television Prabhakar. I mean, that's a great thing. But yeah, I think that's a good rate, by the way. I'm sure, I'm pretty sure about that. I'm pretty sure about that. It's a biased market right now. So you're waiting to spend, I think you can get what you want. But the most popular real estate today is the smartphone, Prabhakar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't worry. So we are working on that upper funnel, yeah. I mean, we're already there. Strong at low, low. Yeah. Okay, so I think they're good. I think we're good on time. We're just, I mean, it's almost five and, anyone's to add any last comment? We've got a minute if you want to add it on. Yeah, just one thing we want to just kind of think about. I think you all mentioned it. I think the PTO is, I love that acronym PTO, so better than Prabhakar. But I think a lot of the old models, right, be cautious because a lot of planning for marketers is with historical data. My request would be to strongly reconsider that because all such assumptions are not out of the window. The data models and things like that, just reconsider your, and as you said, you've got a great deal on TV. You know, all these pen patterns, all the way that we do loyalty trust, cut it fresh rather than just using the paradigms. Because really that has changed. So something to think about in addition to what you all very nicely summarized by Gautam, I just wondered why. No, thanks for that, Shunabh. That's a great point. I think we should be wary of not thinking that the past will lead us to the future. Every mutual fund campaign has that in it, but still, it's a good reminder there. Okay, great guys. I think we're good. Have a great evening. And hope you can survive this lockdown with more laughs and fun. Thanks for the lovely audience. Great questions, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, guys. And I'll see you next time. Bye.