 So, let me then take this opportunity to welcome everybody and today we have Christine Niagaya, we know from Egerton University, where she's working on her PhD. Well, and the title of this presentation already says basically what her topic is about, the influence of water regimes and land use cover change to crop farm and so carbon storage and greenhouse gas emissions from the Jala wetland in Kenya. Maybe some of you remember the Jala wetland a little bit, we had Denise Pansy, our MSC student at IHC who, well I think by now five months or so, six months or so, gave also a bit of a presentation on her work in the Jala wetland and this is of course also the case that is studied by our colleagues from Egerton University. Well, that been said, I give the floor to you Christine. Thank you very much that you are sharing your knowledge with us and the floor is yours. Thank you very much. Good afternoon and good evening everyone, depending on where you are. I'm basically going to take us through what I'm proposing to do for my PhD project. So I'm going to take us through a bit introduction and my objectives and the methodologies I will use and thereafter I will welcome insights from you people on areas of improvements. Thank you. So as we all know wetlands are among the world's most productive ecosystem and this is according to Ramsa Convention on 2016. Yalla Swamp like other wetlands is play a major role, both ecosystem, it plays a major ecosystem role including regulatory and provisioning services to the community living around it. It provides water, it regulates the flow of water especially which enter the Victoria because it has two rivers flowing through it before they enter the Victoria and I'll measure on one of the important ecological role of wetlands which is carbon sequestration because one of the major problems Yalla Wetlands is experiencing is conversion into agriculture which has a major impact on its organic matter and consequently this leads to a nature of more greenhouse gases which is a major problem globally because climate change has become a global problem. Apart from ecological, apart from regulatory services of the wetland, the wetland also helps the local community through as I've said it's being converted to agricultural lands and therefore the community there use it for crop production. There's also commercial crop farming in the wetland. The wetland has been used as a tourism site because it is a biodiversity or sport area. It has so many birds which Popeye especially birds which live medially in Papyrus. It's also a home to many fish species especially some of fish species which currently cannot be found in the Victoria. The papyrus in the wetland is being harvested by the community and is used for various purposes whereby some use it for as fuel, some use it to build houses, some use it to make papyrus products like mats, ropes which they sell and a source of livelihood from them and these are some of the pictures we took during a reconnaissance study. However these two were not made from papyrus but palm tree in the wetland also from Boussia County. These are some of the fish which were harvested from a man made lake in the wetlands which is called Lake Bob. So as I've mentioned one of the major problems that yellow wetland is experiencing is conversion to agriculture and there is both commercial and subsistence agriculture whereby the commercial is by a company called Lake Agro. It has been allocated a very huge part of the wetland that is seeking for allocation of more and the company since it's gradually growing sugar really interfering with the hydrological flow of water in the wetland since sugar and growth does not require water so you find that it must in most cases it diverts or controls the amount of water that flows into Lake Tanya Boli which is part of the wetland and it is the lake which hydrates or it is water from Lake Tanya Boli is what works the wetland. Also the community especially at in yellow wetland is funding two counties Boussia and Siaya County. So the Siaya County communities there are really invading the land and converting it to agricultural lands where they grow different types of crops including maize and vegetables. So this as a result of some consequences like insignificant ecological growth of the land like part the lower side of the wetland funding Boussia side as recently during flooding or during major rain season they usually experience flooding because most of the papyrus that could have controlled the flow of water or restrain water maybe water from Lake Victoria and or the other three lakes restrain the water from these lakes from coming back into the wetland have been cut and they have been cut due to conversion into agricultural lands. Another consequence is loss of biodiversity whereby you find that according to local people some of the birds which were found in the wetland currently have migrated and also animals like the Sitatunga antelope is really endangered. Also the Boussia people use their water in the wetland for consumption but now you see with the cutting of the papyrus there is less efficiency in water purification and this also has major impact since water from this wetland flows into Lake Victoria which goes all the way into River Nile. Also you find that because of the conversion to agriculture there's conflict as a rise conflict as a rise that there's conflict between the county government and the communities and also between the communities themselves because the communities downside want the water to be blocked so that they get to land for farming but the community outside want the water to flow so that the water doesn't affect their houses. So this has made me to come into my general objective which is to assess the impact of water regime and land use change on soil carbon storage and greenhouse gases emission from yellow wetland. I have four specific objectives and the first one will to look at the effects of parts of the lands which are permanently flooded and those parts which are internally flooded on the soil organic carbon and also greenhouse emissions from the wetland. Number two I will be looking at the impact of land use change that is conversion of wetland into agriculture on soil carbon and also greenhouse gases. The objective will be to assess trade-offs between greenhouse gases and productivity in yellow wetland and finally proposing to predict the effect of constant that is continuous wetland conversion on soil carbon storage and emission by the year 2030 and the year 2050. And these are my hypotheses I have aligned them according to my objectives. So why greenhouse gases or why do we need this study? Both the two countries where the wetland is found have high population growth rate and when there is high population growth rate there is need high demand for food and these people these local people most of them just depend on this wetlands for food production they don't have or only a few have alternative sources of livelihood. Therefore this has result to increased conversion of wetlands to crop lands and the ultimate emission of greenhouse gases including methane carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide because of the activities that occur during conversion like drainage of the wetland use of fertilizer to increase crop production and this we know can lead to global warming and also finally lead to climate change which again lead directly affect for such that we due to climate change we experience extreme events of flooding and drought and when we have more drought it means people will again research to converting more wetlands because at least wetlands have water they will stop using dry lands and look for wetlands because of their high productivity rates and they don't at least for better part of the year they are wet they don't lack water and also due to climate change there is extreme flooding which results which again impacts these people living in this wetland especially the busier part of the wetland so this is my city site the wetland is located downstream of two rivers Rivayala and Rivanzaya but Rivayala is the one which plays a major role as the water that flows from Rivayala enters Lake Tanyaboli and it is the water that flows from Lake Tanyaboli that enters the wetland and therefore maintains the hydrology of the wetlands the area according to Moria et al 2015 area of the wetland is 20,756 hectares which as for now I think has really changed and it is good that there's a student who will be doing land use, land cover change of the wetland for I think a duration of the past 20 years so coming to my study design planning to to have some to work on four sites whereby I'll have one site which one part of the wetland which is permanently flooded like it doesn't dry whether it is dry or wet season another part which is seasonally flooded which maybe during dry season it gets it gets dry and during rainy season it's wet then I'll also work on converted parts of the wetland whereby I'm planning to use farms which I've made and farms which have black nightshades because these are the two major crops being grown in the area so in each site I'll have three sub sub sub sites and each sub site will have three chambers that is for for gas collection and for soil the samples will be taken randomly from the from each site from each sub site using composite sampling whereby three samples taken and made into a composite sample so like for one sub one sampling site will have one soil one soil sample and analyzed for different soil nutrients and carbon so for gas sample will be collected twice a month for a hole here to cover the seasonality aspect that is the dry and wet season also soil sample will also be collected twice a month for a hole here except for carbon because from from the literature and also from previous results found in my MSE carbon doesn't change much so for carbon sample will only be done once in dry season and also once in wet season so soil sample will be collected using random composite sampling and this will be taken at 10 to 15 centimeters for analysis of ammonia, nitrate, total nitrogen and phosphorus also I will do I will look at carbon pools within the site and this I will do by looking at carbon along the soil depth whereby a sample at intervals of 10 centimeters from 10 all the way up to 50 centimeters using a cora then when it comes to analysis ammonia, nitrate, total nitrogen and phosphorus will be analyzed using color colorimetric method that is following standard procedures as described in Eucalibur manual 2002 for carbon it will be analyzed using workplace black method so gas samples will be collected using static closed chamber method and this one we involve first of all the chambers will be fabricated from locally available material like in this picture this is a chamber this is a picture I took for my MSE whereby this is the lead and here down here is the bed the two are clamped together using a metallic clip and this is just a plastic bucket covered with an aluminum duct tape the covering is to prevent to prevent heat build up in the chambers during gas collection the chamber lead also has three three sections here like we have a sampling port where gas will be collected using a syringe we have another port which has been connected to our vent this is just to equalize the atmospheric pressure and the pressure inside the gas chamber so that it doesn't affect the concentration of the gas and also a thermometer which is supposed to measure the chamber the temperature inside the chamber so when when the chambers are closed they are closed for 30 minutes and the samples are taken at intervals of 10 minutes starting from zero and like I've said each sub-site will have three chambers so 20 ml of gas will be collected from each of the three chambers and from that making a total of 50 out of which 40 will be used to flush the glass vial and 20 will be used to fill to fill the vial which will later be taken to Illry International Livestock Research Institute in Nairobi for analysis using gas chromatography method so for trade-offs I will I will use questionnaires to get information concerning production costs whereby production costs here will involve costs all the way from land preparation planting weeding and harvesting costs and thereafter calculate revenue that is what are what are the yield that will have been gotten from each of the plots and thereafter calculate the net yield whereby we subtract the total income which is the revenue minus all the production costs then calculate greenhouse gas emission intensity using this formula sorry which is annual the O2 equivalent for each site over the net yield by CO2 equivalent I mean this includes all the emissions for carbon dioxide nitrous oxide and methane because these are the three greenhouse gas I will be looking at where but we will total the emissions from nitrous oxide times 300 this is the global warming potential of I mean this is the global warming potential for nitrous oxide in a lifespan of 100 years then for methane it is 25 so you multiply the emissions of nitrous oxide you multiply by 300 the emission of methane you multiply by 25 then you sum up together with the emissions of CO2 for projections for my objective 4 I intend to use data from the YALA wetland land use plan which has already been published so in in the land use plan they they have projections and a different scenario of the coverage of the wetland whereby if business continues as usual this is the amount of area that would have been converted to subsistence crop for example and in 2030 and in 2050 and also this scenario where if they adopt a balanced they adopt a balanced trans a balanced transport pathway whereby there is development and there's also conservation this is the amount of wetland that will be used for subsistence and this is the amount of wetland that in 2030 and in 2050 so I'm intending to use whatever I will have calculated from the plots I will use convert into tons of greenhouse gases here then extrapolate that using these projected areas and therefore with that information we can be able to tell if we adopt business as usual scenario these are the amount of greenhouse gas that you can emit that then if we adopt a balanced scenario these are the amount of greenhouse gases that you will emit and be able to advise the policy makers based on those areas and projected greenhouse emission that we will get therefore I expect to at least have to have at least two publications in a peer reviewed journals a thesis report and using using the projection data and projection outputs maybe I will we will be able to advise the policy maker on making informed decisions on farmland on farmland farmland and on farmland management farmland and wetland management such that they will facilitate development of a management plan that will adopt a balanced or a hybrid scenario and therefore we know that we as scientists or our main objective towards wetland ecosystem is conservation but for the community and investors their main objective is to convert the wetland get more agricultural lands for farming so that they may be able to sustain their livelihoods but we find that when this pathway is adopted the wetlands will be degraded but when this pathway is adopted the wetland will be conserved yes but the community won't have some of the communities won't have a source of livelihood therefore we as scientists we need with this information we will be able to inform policy makers on best management pathways that will be able that will bring balance between community conversion and community conservation and also and also climate smart agriculture whereby there will be the policy makers will be able to develop a management plan that will balance that will balance agriculture in wetland and also conservation so that we have a balanced scenario between provisioning and regulatory services of the wetlands so I recommend that maybe as students or somebody will be able to do analysis of greenhouse gases emission in the three satellite lakes of yellow wetland that is like cannibal, like Nambuio and Lexare or maybe another one another student should be able to do fisheries whereby they will be able to look at species composition of the three lakes maybe using an environmental DNA and maybe look at the change of the species composition over time also another student can be able to use stable isotopes to be able to know the source of carbon in the wetland so thank you very much for listening I welcome questions corrections and more insights towards my project thank you very much Christine then the floor is open for questions yes and maybe not sure if you want to keep your presentation still open because maybe some people would like to refer to it don't see yet a show of hands then I I see Leon waving and Sumit has raised also a hand so let me give first the floor to Sumit because he used the formal zoom way of raising your hand please thanks yeah and thank you Christine for your presentation I just have one I would say more fundamental questions because your topic was about influencing water regimes now my question to you is what do you mean by water regimes how do you explain them because you explain the the the quite detailed analysis of gha emissions and how are you going to convert them into certain numbers uh all very good but I really want to understand what do you mean by water regimes how do you explain that um what are regimes here I just uh uh allow me to project my like to determine the effect of permanently and seasonally flooding of the wetland whereby I look at those parts of the wetland which are they are permanent constantly they have water and those parts of the wetlands which have water maybe only during rainy season and during dry season they dry up okay these are some of the repercussions you are going to understand um I okay not to pry on this further but I would just a suggestion to look at how do you want to connect your analysis this is something you can develop in your work is to see how your um calculations and other in other aspects which you are going to unfold in your research how you are going to connect to the water angle I think that would be an interesting angle to connect how do you basically connect your climate change analysis to your water analysis I think that would be something you can further look into that's all thank you thank you yeah and thank you Christine for that yeah thank you uh Sumit yeah I I had before a gift floor uh to uh lay on I had similar kind of um question if you because well some some soils um emit greenhouse gases what when they are flooded and that some other soils they emit more greenhouse gases when they turn dry like in in beach soil so is that how that seasonality indeed how does that how are you taking that into account I was wondering or how does that matter in the yellow weather maybe you don't know sorry I didn't really get your question well yeah well I'm not an expert in greenhouse gas emissions uh from um from wetlands but um what I what I've learned or what I said for example when reservoirs are flooded so some systems uh soil plant ecosystems they emit extra greenhouse gases when they are flooded because well plant material starts to rot or so and other soils like beach soils they emit extra greenhouse gases when they are drained so I think Christine was asking about seasonality of uh greenhouse gases production yes basically what you did for your master's what you did for your master's yes I've got him now you see you know wetlands naturally they emit more methane when they are flooded and when they are converted they tend to emit more carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide and this is because um the water levels the temperature affect the decomposition processes and also when when a soil is flooded it tends to be more anoxic which favors emission of methane but when the soil is um maybe the water levels go down uh there's diffusion of oxygen the soil tends to be more oxy and this favors emission of um carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide okay thank you for explaining that uh to me then uh leon please yeah thank you Christine for the for the presentation very interesting to hear uh your your plans and your ideas on them I have to tackle the question of the greenhouse gas emissions and and the other trade-offs involved with the production cost yield so that will be very interesting to to see what what comes out of this um my question is about um could you tell us a little bit more about how your phd research links or feeds into the the sort of the larger stakeholder dialogue in the yalla wetland and that maybe the slide that you showed towards the end which is the pathways and the different types of stakeholders on that slide um could could you tell us a little bit more if you are already in contact with those stakeholders or maybe as part of the larger project difficulties in the yalla wetland which your phd is apart and how that yeah how that link is with the let's say the the larger stakeholder dialogue okay um um now you see uh in order first of all um some of the stakeholders that are involved in in the management of this wetland are first of all the communities then we have the county government the the wetland is found in two county governments siya and busiya or the two governments are aware that our project is doing something there uh because in the um when we were doing our first visit we had to make um we had to inform them yeah and also um other stakeholders involved are um NGOs like nature kenya they are aware and actually like me i will be working closely with nature kenya because uh they really know most of the activities that take place in the in the in the in the wetland and um other other stakeholders like nema um warma um when we were doing first courtesy call they were all informed are they they are all aware of what uh transport team is doing in the wetland and so um uh your second question was how my work will will contribute to the general projects right yeah how would you fit sorry i'm not getting you in yeah how would you tend to be um heard better when you are having a little bit more distance from your microphone leon next time i should plug in the headset maybe again now how indeed how your work fits and and interacts maybe with the other activities in in the kenya note especially the yeah the stakeholder dialogue um if if you have already initiated it and if maybe from that dialogue you already know who are the stakeholders that care about greenhouse gas emissions it's it's of course not maybe part of your four phd but it will be help to make it relevant and to make this sort of pathway scheme work in the end and and to prevent that your scientific findings are dropping that with the policymakers or the communities so so maybe do do you know who what what are your key stakeholders that that like you care about the greenhouse gas emissions and how that is part of the um yalla wetland dialogue um yeah yes leon i think like for example uh agricultural extensions of it are from the county government they will form uh part of key stakeholders in my work um because um for these people they are they are their major objective is to ensure that the community is okay through by making sure they have enough source of livelihood and uh they they the these communities are using the wetland uh to produce those to crop for for for farming so uh these officers i i intend to work with them closely because uh using this information uh i mean uh we will be through them we will be able to propose good maybe proper climate smart agriculture so that we don't totally say that these people be removed uh out of the wetland but we give better ways uh for uh carrying out sustainable sustainable agriculture in the wetland such that the community benefit and at the same time the wetland is also conserved yeah i'm allowed maybe leon to just hard on what is being i think she's wobbling because we have not uh we are actually in the process of planning our first um stakeholder engagement next month so we have a list of so many stakeholders whom we intend to engage you know this depending on that but really one of our many key uh stakeholders is the county government as you know uh with the with the government the way kenya is run now the activities and developments on the ground are normally taken up by the by the county governments not the not the national governments and therefore we get the three county governments who are within the wetlands which we are working on that is as she talks about the cia county which is and abu cia county which is within the really the key managers of the the ala count wetland and we also have the nanti county which is on the other wetland with pristine will not be working on now how do we bring this transformation and why do we want to do that one of the aspects we would wish to see is for the county government to incorporate wetland management within the accounting integrated development plan because if it is integrated within the accounting development plan it means now they take it up from regulations and therefore uh it becomes part of the funding which the county will be fighting toward the initiative trying to conserve that wetland now currently the the ala wetland uh there is now a land use plan which is actually a good document at least that is a beginning of a stand we have a land use plan which shows which part of the wetland will be used for conservation which part of the wetlands will be used for a agriculture and which part will be used for for commercial agriculture and what will be grown in there so they have worked out and this is actually being done from the community from the it is from bottom up it was developed together with the but with the communities until it reached a level where one of the county has actually adopted it and passed it in parliament and therefore taken it as their working tool but one of the counties which is actually comes from having the most part of the wetland are still struggling with that so one of the transformative action we want to see is how do we bring these people together so that everybody accept work in the wetlands and we thought one of the easiest way to tell them because when you talk about uh multinational companies they would want to know because when you tell them there is a nine part of the greenhouse effect and therefore you are releasing a lot of greenhouse effect greenhouse gases that sends much a much stronger stronger signal because it means that they then they will need to know what do we do so that we minimize our green gas our green gases emission so that within our management we really cater for that so I think it is a it is a working thing we are still not a I mean we have a long list of the stakeholders actually we're having a meeting next Friday to try and see how to get these stakeholders and how to train the stakeholders depending on who they are because we don't want anybody to be left behind and again we want to work with everybody if we really have to fight this this is a big it's a big step it's a big step so I think by the end of maybe by the end of this year it will be very clear who are our key stakeholders but of course the international company I mean the development company the investors that is definitely one of the person yet because I think he needs to know what is the impact of it and we're actually looking and of course with the other communities so in terms of these in tea labs we're having our first tea labs where we identify the problem we'll hear what the people say we'll also guide them on what we do so I think by December it will be clear that Christine on which particular communities or people is working she's working with particularly on the tradeoffs but to know who is keeping the data in terms of their protection who is not keeping that I mean who can we rely on the data so these are things now which we are category at the moment working on and maybe some it came up with this question of the water levels or water regime we're actually still struggling with that we had a meeting again this week she was using hydro regimes and now she's changed it to I mean she was using hydrological regimes now she has changed it to water regimes so she's still finding the best way to present this and I'm glad it has come in again because what we are saying is how would you relate the water regimes with the outputs you are going to get so I just thought maybe I can clarify on that thank you professor and I see that Andres has raised his hand and eager to join the discussion yeah thanks yeah thanks Christine for for a nice presentation I actually maybe you guys all know this but for me I had a student in April that introduced me to the Yala wetland and I remember that he wrote that there were already the problems that were already there in the early 2000 they are still here today in terms of I think he talked about a lack of environmental management plan maybe that has come very recently as I just understood but I remember so one of the questions is like how would you address that so apparently it's a lot of the things in terms of conversion to agriculture and sand harvesting are not moving so this will be another argument to to conserve some of the wetlands but if it hasn't happened since 2000 what will the change be now and and the second question maybe is that I wondered then but I didn't get an answer what kind of the sort of the 10-year relation is that these communities have to the wetland do they have any claim to it our communities do they have a territory where they have a particular right to because yeah well I'm curious to know that actually thanks actually the land ownership at Yala is a real issue because according to the community they believe the wetland belongs to them which is not true because wetlands are governments are properties and should be protected so they they they don't have like a specific area that is is safe this is for community but the good thing is the the developed land use plan has allocated the wetlands in such a way that there are areas which have been assigned that as agricultural potential area and these are the area which the land use plan is proposing to leave to the community to use for agriculture there are areas which have been allocated for conservation which if we pray that the land use plan be adopted as soon as possible and put into use or this will help conserved but conserved better parts of of the wetland and talking about the problem since 2000 I don't know if I'm really able to answer that because the wetland are having different many stakeholders to county governments the communities the international NGO NGOs first of all it's not clear who should do what in the wetland and also the wetlands have since it has no it doesn't have a management plan I don't know it maybe I can help Christine just a bit maybe address it yeah like Christine what she has said the yellow wetland has been one of the most controversial wetlands in terms of management and the reason being in where it is placed and the size of the wetland is one of the largest wetlands you find within the lake the lake Victoria and therefore because of what that's why we are saying it's been very controversial it has not had management plan it has not there has not been clear as we are saying who should be doing what and where so communities that's why you find communities have been claiming there's a there's a catcher away where if your house is next to the wetland you are the first owner of the wetland or you are you have a right to own the wetland but as we said when you look at our constitution the wetlands are actually government lands so to bring this to that has been the biggest challenge and whereby you find we have had previously we have we have had serious investors coming into the wetland but because of that controversial not knowing who is to do what some of the some of the huge investors have actually packed their bags and left because it's a very controversial so with this land use plan this is the first initiative to give a direction on what should happen to this wetland and that's why we are actually very keen to see to ensure that in this land use plan which was actually developed for with the community input it was developed from there with the community input with everybody all the stakeholders and they agreed on it they are just a few issues which are controversial or which are controversial at the moment and I think now in fact two weeks ago the the count the governor of the count who was having a lot of issues came up and said no we have decided we are going to implement this land use plan because if the land use plan is implemented it is very clear and it is even giving a courage of how much acres should be used by the community for food production what is a courage which is supposed to be converted I mean which are supposed to be conserved so we can see this is the only pathway and eventually hopefully we'll come up with a management plan there is no management plan in this wetland but the other wetland we are working on has got a management plan but does not have a land use plan and we have realized when you have a management plan and it's not clearly how you are going to use the land sometimes even the plan does not really have effect it doesn't work so for us we think this is the way forward and this is the way to the entry of now once having most of the issues in in yellow western being addressed and that's why we put one of the master students we'll actually be looking at conversional land use the change of land use for the last 20 years and we want to see how has this changed within the last 20 years in terms of the wetland cover and also in terms of in terms of the conversion and that's why if you look at the last if you look at the last slide you Christine gave we are actually also hoping to get some more students to go in there because we have identified several areas which we may need to put some students so that we understand what is really happening with this information it is easier to guide the county government and also we are going to be working together so it's quite it's quite a bit complicated but now there's a bit of light in the channel at the moment yeah yeah yeah so what I understand and what makes it indeed interesting to look at is that it is sort of owned by the national government the county government is the one that has to execute any type of program while communities claim land that over the last 20 years by the thousands of hectares if I understood it is being given in concessions to private actors I'm not sure if that last one is correct but so that makes it for everyone to actually buy into conversation measures I think quite complicated yeah it's very complicated yeah what we are saying when you look at the management of wetlands in Kenya management actually government owns but previously majority of them are community utilized because communities were born there so for them they woke up they went and got the fish from the wetlands they came home so to them that's their livelihood but now how do you make this livelihood a bit more organized for sustainability because what we are doing now there is no sustainability and therefore when you have the land use plan which has actually everybody has participated coming in it it means now everybody is having a conversation both the community the county governments as well as the national government because we also have the land commission in fact the land commission has been actually working for the last few months trying now to come up with a clear demarcation of where the land about the wetland so there are a lot of a few things happening and therefore if everybody if you look at the land use plan it kind of gives everybody a responsibility on what you as a person with interest in that meant you have to do but to this I can elaborate on that I can see she's put on her hands thank you I see the risk but also raised her hand so maybe she wants to add something to it yeah just to add a few points on that during our tea labs I think we'll have to clarify who the land belongs to because according to the county government is a community land and since it has not been registered they own it in trust for the community so we'll have to verify if it is a public land or it is a community land then another thing is about the areas which will be which are proposed as conserved areas of the wetland so these areas already have a management plan which the moment the land use plan will be approved then also the management plan will will become effective hopefully thank you thank you uh can I add one sentence yeah so I think for the team it's interesting that uh even if you clarify who on paper owns it it might be interesting to look at how people act so if the community thinks that they own the land like what does that mean for for their for their practices and actions and in the end that might be even more telling than finding out on paper whether it is community land or or or nationally owned or so it yeah it would be interesting as a team to look at and and for us to to later hear the story about it so thanks to all I'm glad Joly is here he's listening because there are the people who are going to run the the tea lab Joly I hope you heard that yes yes yes and um to add maybe also to that so you have in one of your slides so that the scientists they they they use this conservation narrative on and I think traditionally this conservation narrative is mostly based on well loss of a biodiversity ecological log is of wetlands um and now you add may also this narrative in relation to climate change and greenhouse gas emissions but who is actually listening to this to this additional messages and this additional narrative that it's important to conserve and to whom is this an important narrative to well take into account when when thinking about conserving this wetland systems um I also look at the time as timekeeper is one of my roles in this in this webinar series and it has been past 4 p.m here in the Netherlands meaning that we have an hour already past so thank you very much and that means that we are starting to close this session so let me first thank you Christine for your interesting presentations it has triggered quite some thoughts are very inspiring and we wish you of course the best of luck with implementing your research and we're looking forward of course to to hearing and reading your results and how it's going in the other way then um let me take a stand to next month so on the 20th of November we have Vani and Vani is here with us who has proposed to give a presentation on virtual water trade an approach for regional corporations I think also that will be a very interesting webinar additional to the to the series so Vani thank you very much for stepping up and proposing to present next month that leaves me then also to repeat that we have two opening slots on 18 December and 15 January so again this is an invitation to you all to put your name in the list and to step forward to present some of your interesting knowledge that is interesting to share with our project team then as I always do I return to either Leon or Anna Mika are there any more messages from the project management team to share no to excuse Anna Mika who is traveling for for work I think she's already originally maybe self of this until she realized she was traveling for for work but she she shared that she will see the recording so I will also stop the recording and we are still figuring out how to easily share and make accessible the recordings to all now maybe from the project management side only to remind everyone that next week we have a project team meeting on Thursday and I think I'm one of the bottlenecks in sharing the agenda with you but I think there will be soon another agenda being shared with you for that so thank you then I'm going to thank you everybody for being here with us and I'm looking forward to seeing you again not just at the next project meeting but particularly also in our next webinar in our TransPath plan series so thank you very much enjoy your day and see you soon