 Montpelier Public Art Commission projects, and then we have Mark Montmini. I think that's Minni. Sorry, you can have to... Mark Monimi. Okay. You got it. Thank you. Hi, Mark. Thank you for Black River Designs project. And then Kaplan for the commission, not here yet. No, Bob's on for that as well, both of the Public Art Commission projects. He's on for both of them. I just saw Kaplan's name on 64 main. I didn't know he was... No, he's the owner. Yes. So we don't... Nope, he's not actually taking a hands-on roll on this one. Okay. Okay, everybody ready? Welcome to the Monday, August the 16th, 2021 meeting of the Montpelier Design Review Committee. We have participation in person and by remote by both members and applicants. I will let them, committee members, introduce themselves first. Go ahead from Ben. No, Microsoft. Ben Cheney, member. Eric Gilbertson. The Crandall staff. Steve Everett, member. And by remote. Member. Martha Swirsky, member. Okay. I will let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures for anyone accessing by remote. Okay. I'm going to share my screen. A lot of this is for those viewing the meeting via ORCA. You know what? I don't actually have my regular sheet. Anyway, so I'm going to do this by memory. So anybody who's watching this over ORCA media, you can participate in tonight's design review committee meeting via the Zoom platform using this link or calling into the meeting using this phone number and this meeting ID. If anybody is having problems accessing the meeting, please email me at this email address right down here. We don't have anybody calling in tonight, so that makes things a little bit easier. For those of you who are on via Zoom, you know, we're trying to run this just like we would if you were here in person. So when your application comes up, you'll be able to discuss your, you know, what your project is and then DRC members will ask any questions. It doesn't look like we have any members of the public on tonight. If anybody does log in partway through the meeting and wants to participate, once you log in, when there's a break, you can introduce yourself or when there is an item that comes up and there's discussion on it and you want to take part, please raise your hand or in a break you can announce yourself if you're just calling in and wait to speak until the chair recognizes you and I'll help facilitate that as needed. We're going to ask that anybody who is on remotely please keep your mute button on unless and until you've been called on to speak. We're trying to reduce background noise as much as possible. I think that's all I'm going to go through tonight. Steve, hand it back over to you. For the committee members, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. I will second. All in favor of approving the agenda, raise your hand and remotely speak your names. Martha, yes. Okay, the agenda is approved. Unless anybody has anything to add at this point, we'll go to the first application for five high school drive. The applicant is Robert Hanham. Are you there? I am, thanks. Go ahead and describe your application. We're representing the Montpelier Public Art Commission that we propose to move the now obscured, accessible, challenger seven memorial on the corner of Memorial Drive and National Life Drive. Very few people know about it. We'd like to place it in a position where people, the community can enjoy it more and where it's accessible. And that place is along the bike path next to the high school. And we're looking for you on Google, thank you. I think it's a super idea that the way it is now is dangerous to get to. We can't get to it safely, particularly if you have any kind of blocking issues at all. It's 35 years old, excellent condition. Again, we're proposing to move it to a site that's very public. I'll be cleaning it, coating it with a product that makes vandalism, makes tagging easy to remove. It's got lighting next to it on the bike path, so the risk of it is going to be reduced somewhat. So we think it's a fine place. Oh, by the way, the cost has been entirely donated by National Life. Bob, when would you expect to do this? Within the next two weeks. Before school starts and before National Life has the kind of big events in the first September. And what kind of base are you looking at to put in? A four foot deep concrete foundation approximately about six inches wide than the length on the other side of the memorial. So it comes out about a foot wide by four feet wide, by four feet deep. Sounds pretty solid. Anybody have anything else to add? Otherwise, I can go through the criteria. I guess just one quick question, how the rock is attached to the concrete. The question was how, what the attachment between the memorial and the concrete bases I assume it's two pieces of steel that it's sleeved over. I didn't quite hear it, but if I'm just a minute, you're asking about how it's going to be attached to the foundation. Yes. Yeah. Hins, an epoxy. Okay. If nothing else, we'll go through the criteria for all projects. Number one, exterior design and materials. It's actually not new construction, but it's a reinstallation. So new construction is considered to be compatible if the material used possesses a kind or type that's appropriate to the district. Material selected, she'll either fit the neighborhood. Context of the proposed building in or reflect the nature and use of the structure, it's acceptable. Proposed landscaping. It's, she'll be compatible with the neighborhood and the site on which the project's located. That's acceptable. And lastly, under landscaping screening and site furnishings, projects within the design review, overly district, subject to landscaping requirements. She'll consider the following, site furnishings including fencing, seating, and other types of site furniture visible from the street or side yards. And this landscaping obscure or undermine the key architectural patterns or elements of any historic buildings. And those are the items that are both acceptable. And accessory buildings and or structures shall be located within either the side yard or rear yard. But that's acceptable. That wasn't like here. That was one, both of those are things that were kind of on the line, whether they applied here or not. So that's why I leave that to you guys. Or in case something gets brought up in the meeting that pertains. So based on that acceptability, do I hear a motion or do I hear a vote in favor, all in favor of the application? Raise your hand or speak your names remotely. Yes. This is Martha. I say yes. Yes, please. Okay. Then it is approved. Thank you everyone. You're welcome Bob. Because there weren't any recommendations on the form I'm going to send it to you to sign, but I'm not going to wait to get the signature back before I send out the actual permit. We'll get that out to you as soon as we can. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you and we'll see you again shortly. We can go to the next application for 22 State Street, Positive Pi, Carlo. Yes, if you want to come up, sit in front of that computer and make sure you're talking into that microphone right there. Awesome. Thank you, Carlo. You're welcome. Go ahead and describe your application for us. Yes, this is for Positive Pi and we replaced the front windows and doors with updated windows and we made them, we put the windows in to resemble the ones that we already have there. The only difference is that the frame is black. We had it painted black on the outside of the old ones. The old ones are aluminum frame, single pane windows so they would get really thick with ice and steam and fog because of all the heat in the restaurant. And they were inefficient and cold. And so we replaced them with black aluminum frame and double or double pane so they're insulated and way more efficient. The other difference is, I mean, and they're both four panel windows, except the new ones are double hung so I'm able to open the bottom panels and they open about like two feet high so that way we could allow more air flow for COVID and all this and it just had better ventilation in general. You're going to replace all the front windows. Are you going to place all the front windows? Yes, we actually we already replaced them. I went ahead and did it. I thought that the design was pretty much exactly the same so somehow in my head I didn't think I would need to get them permitted unless I was completely changing the whole front of the restaurant. So I basically took the old ones out, put new ones in, they looked the same and so the ones you replaced were a metal frame window as well. Metal frame, yes. I won't suggest that. I was going to suggest you do true double hungs so you can get out. Hot air goes out the top and the cool air comes in the bottom without any fans or anything. It's a good idea. I haven't tried opening up the top part. They are double hungs. But this top open? I don't know. I haven't tried to be honest. So sash are operable and it lets the heat up. You get a convection cycle going. Yeah, I'm going to go try that. I opened them to make sure that they worked and that was it. I just opened the bottom panel. But the center rail of the double hung is in the same spot that this divider was in? Yep. So it has exactly the same appearance other than there's the one sash that lower sash is behind the upper one just slightly. Exactly. But otherwise from any distance you can't tell anything was done. Well that's right. You have before and after pictures in here. Yes. It's hard to tell the difference unless you look at the sash locks. Right. When were the windows you replaced? When were they put in? When did you replace the wooden frames? We had Portland Glass do it about a month ago. Oh you mean when did the wooden ones were taken out? Wooden. I've never seen wooden windows in there. There must have been at one point. Oh that was a long time ago. It's probably been with State Street Market possibly. But the State Street Market when I bought it from State Street they had aluminum frame but we just painted them black on the outside because they weren't bright and metal looking. There's no time in State Street Market as a teenager. Anyone have any other questions about the replacement windows? I guess I would mention that we also have like the doors are updated. They're like the same doors but they have like breaker bars in the middle so people could escape or fire happen or something a lot easier. The other ones were actually locked. There was two doors one we kept locked because people were getting confused coming in and out but now it locks from the outside, the left side, and it opens from the inside so at any time people can get out to figure it's a bonus. You can always go out but not always in. Yeah. Oh good. Anybody have any other questions? If not I can go through the criteria on this one. Where start structures they're removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize an historic property shall be avoided. Character defining features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize an historic building shall be preserved. There were no deteriorated features in this particular case. Any treatments that cause damage to historic materials including but not limited to chemical or physical treatments such as sandblasting shall not be approved none of those apply here. So this is acceptable. Any new development shall be differentiated from the old but shall respect to be compatible with a massing size scale architectural features detailing and overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties. The replacement of the windows has an identical appearance to what was there before which was not historic or at least not very far back. So that's acceptable. Proportion compatibility of relationship between width and height or facades as well as relationship of width to height of windows and doors it's acceptable. It replicated what was there before. Rhythm patterns of solids and openings shall be preserved that's acceptable. And criteria for historic structures character defining window patterns placement sizes proportions and original features such as trims sash molding shall be preserved to the extent possible. Character defining windows and doors must be rehabilitated or replaced in kind again this is almost an exact replacement in terms of appearance. Windows and doors that are not character defining may be replaced but such replacements must be compatible with historic building style materials and architectural features acceptable. That's all the criteria. All in favor of the application raise your hand. I say yes. Eric says yes. And speak your names. Okay. It's approved. Thank you. I think I saw you putting these in about a month ago. Is that right? Yes. Yeah. Yep. I was actually in Los Angeles because my daughter had a singing event. So they call me up last minutes and we're doing it this weekend. I was like well this weekend I'm not going to be here but they went ahead and did it. But I wasn't here while they did it. Well it looks good from this walking across the street you can't tell anything it's done. So thanks for keeping us simple. Keeping it simple and maintaining the profiles. You're welcome. How's it working out with the ventilation? Well we keep the air conditioning on most of the time but then at night we kind of open them up a little and that helps a lot. But we don't open them during like prime time because it's just been so humid. So now as fall approaches we'll be opening them up more so we'll allow that to happen more but it doesn't make sense because when it's 100% humidity or whatever it's just the air conditioners drowned. Well good. Well thank you for coming. You're welcome. Thank you. You're here so you should sign. Sign. Meet me at the end. Bye everyone thank you. Thank you. Goodbye. Thanks again. The next application is for 73 Main Street. Heaney Family Main Street for Applicant Black River Design and I guess Mark is here for Black Rivers. Go ahead and describe the application. Thank you Steve. Hello everyone. I'm from Black River Design Architects. My name is Mark Montmoney. The project we're looking to do we're looking to add some mechanical units in our office spaces which take up the entire front portion of the second floor of 73 Main Street and basically the two mechanical units will have a series of ductwork inside our offices and each unit will require a air intake louver and an exhaust louver. The proposal is two louvers on the south wall of 73 Main Street more or less above the capital station of Merrill and then two louvers for a unit at the other end of the second floor that we occupy that would be in the alleyway between 73 Main Street and 79 Main Street. Primarily due to COVID we have no, other than operable windows which in the winter don't really service very well this is to provide the natural ventilation to our office spaces year round. Did I understand that there will be two vents on each side or just one? There will be two on the south wall and two on the north wall. There's one mechanical unit at the south end of our offices more or less behind the wall that the fire station is up against and then there will be another unit at the north end along the exterior wall by the alleyway. And these louvers are dark is that correct? They're aluminum that be painted we spoke with Tim Heaney the building owner and he wanted them to be a red color to as best possible match the brick on the end of the building. Okay. Is the size of the louvers on the south end of the building looks like it's 12 approximately 12 inches square? No the louvers on the south end of the building are 16 inches square themselves. The masonry opening that they need to go into is 20 inches square and so the intent is to remove the masonry and put in a steel box frame that's grounded in place and then tooth back in the salvage brick that's taken out of the opening around the new opening as required so it looks as good as can be with reused existing brick and we don't have the saw cuts in the brick explode. The openings in the north wall that face into the alleyway are slightly bigger because that ERV unit is bigger and has higher exhaust and air intake. And I'm looking at your inset of your application for the placement of these louvers on the north wall near the capitol stationers think you intend to line it up with the existing windows. Is that correct? Yes with the spring point for the arched top on the windows and that's those locations are coordinated inside with sprinkler piping and existing wall layouts and the tried to leave, I don't have the drawings in front of me, but we try to leave a fairly healthy amount of brick between the window opening and the jam of the louver openings. The structural engineer has reviewed those details and approved them so that's the SNP test. Anybody else have any questions regarding the application? If not I can go through the criteria for this application for historic structures, removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces, she'll be avoided although this, the way it's lining up with the brick, it will be a very minimal appearance difference. Character defining features, finishes and construction techniques were examples of craftsmanship that characterize an historic building shall be preserved. There are no deteriorated character features here. Any treatments that cause damage to historic materials including but unlimited to chemical or physical treatments shall not be approved. The removal of the small amount of bricks to accommodate these events is acceptable. Existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of their time, place and use. Any new development shall be differentiated from the old which I'll respect and be compatible. In this particular case just the addition of the events is acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, mechanical equipment, trash, storage and fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately discreet from public view. The placement of the events is acceptable. Rhythm, patterns of solids and openings shall be preserved to the extent feasible, acceptable. Architectural features including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights, and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining prevailing on the existing buildings shall be considered in the alteration acceptable. All in favor of the application as proposed speak your names and raise your hands. This is Martha I say yes. Lynn says yes. Application is approved. Thank you very much. So thank you very much Mark for coming. Thank you Mark. I appreciate it. I don't have the application right in front of me. I'm trying to remember you on there as your email address on the application. I'll email it to whoever we have on here for Black River as the main contact to email the recommendation form just to get a signature on it. Okay. That would be to me. Yes, it is you. Great. So yeah, I'll send you an email with the recommendation form and you just sign it and get it back to us but I can I'll work on getting it approved out as soon as possible. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a nice evening everyone. Thank you. You too. Have a nice evening. Okay. The next application is for 64 Main Street Kaplan's building and Montpelier Public Art Commission is the applicant and I guess Robert you're back again. Yes. Hello again. It's me Bob. This is one of many projects we hope to bring before you in the next or so. Very excited about it. It's a temporary installation on a building. The owner is very excited about it and went through a rigorous selection process for this artist who is Peter Schumann of the Red and Puppet fame. It's been enlarged and placed on outdoor durable vinyl that is intended the last three to five years. We're also interested in the temporary aspect because we want to see what the public reaction is to are like this. If it's positive we'll do much more. If it's negative we'll go back to the drawing board. So we're asking your permission to place this up securely on the build. Again we've been in contact with the owner to be sure our methods are approved. We're going to do secure light holds, stainless steel screws, L brackets those will remain on the building so that we can put another art up there after this one's time. It's colorful again. We're very excited. I don't know exactly where it's going to be. It's the one vacant area of the building on Main Street. It's on the alley side. I'm spacing it on the gravel rather. It's up on the topmost floor very large size. About 16 by 16. We can figure it out this weekend if we can arrange the last bit of detail which is the insurance issues. But that's also just waiting for paper to be signed. So you folks are our last piece of business to do on this piece. This is Liz. Could you explain how big the pieces are and how they're going to be placed along that wall? Yeah correct. Great question. Right now you'll see that Ravel Rouser has placed a lot of poster art along the bottom floor of the building. That's extremely temporary. I believe even several pieces have already been replaced. This piece is going to be at the top of the building. If you'll recall there's about four or so floors. It's going to extend across two floors basically at the very top of the building. The corner that's closest to Main Street. Bob? It's approximately 16 feet wide by 20 feet tall. It's quite large, quite noticeable Bob, this is Meredith. I'm going to just do a share screen because it doesn't actually, in the application package, the photos we have looked like it was going up in the front windows of Ravel Rouser. So I'm going to do a share screen of the Google Maps image of the side of that building just so that people can see what we're talking about. Great. And I can turn off the light so you guys can see as well. So you're talking right up here, right? Exactly. It's going to extend over the entire space leaving approximately a foot or two away from the window to the right window at the bottom. Correct. Yes, beautiful. Will they be above the other two windows to the right or just in the front corner? It's above the window you see and beside the window, yes. It's not at all engaging on those. It's not here. Correct. No, not there. Okay, just that front corner. Correct. Okay. And how of it? The size of this, how does it compare to the mural that's on the side of the wall? Great question. It's about the same size. All of these pieces together or each piece separately? This will be just one piece. Oh, okay. I misunderstood then. Okay. Sorry about that. I was merely on the first floor that building poster art pieces. Yes. But in your application, there are several pieces. That's what I meant. Yeah, I'm sorry about that Martha. Hold on, Bob. I'll pull it up. Is that a collage of sorts of the different pieces? So, Bob, we have multiple images. We've got this one. Yeah. There's this. There's this one. And at least one more. Is it just going to be just one of these? Or are all of them going to be together in sort of a panel piece? I'm really sorry about that. Yes. Just one of these pieces. It's the red piece above. This one. This one? Yes. Okay. Okay. Have you picked one yet? Yeah. Sorry, that's on the other computer. That's not on my computer. Okay. Yes. We thought it was positive and playful and happy and noticeable and colorful. On and on. We loved it. It's very much his style. I don't know if you're familiar with Pierre's work, but this is... We also feel that he's a statewide... He's a statewide treasure. And we're pleased that he's... He wants to be part of our city in this way. And how will that be mounted on the side of the brick building? Yeah, we're mounting this vinyl... Outdoor grade vinyl. We're mounting it on the wood frame. And the wood frame that's going to be lifted onto the building placed on bell brackets. And we screw into the bell brackets then to secure it against the building. Much like we've done to another piece, similarly exactly placed the same... same material really on the Union River building. And if you recall that piece has been up there for several years and when it did become tattered last winter we we replaced it. The fasteners that we used to place against the building are still the original hardware. So it's tomorrow pull at last. We know it works. Are there... Are there any mechanical attachments on the building currently? No. One of the requirements for mechanical attachment into a brick building or masonry building is that the mechanical attachments the only and the mortar joints between the bricks. Yes, I understand. Thank you. We will be careful to make sure that it's missing. Sorry, Liz. It's okay. Sorry. The sound is a little muffled so for me if I missed something but I'm painting very much I think it's great. Colorful and uplifting or whatever. I was just curious what is the hand out number of such and such paintings? I don't... I think that's his... good question. I haven't asked the artist. I just assume that's part of his thing. To each his own. I find it like a mural. I'm sorry. I take it to be something like a personal... Okay. I understand that. Thank you. Thanks. Any members have any other questions, comments or suggestions? Okay. Then we can go through the criteria for the project. Number one, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. There's no removal of historic materials. No real alteration of character defining features. And there's treatments that will cause damage to historic materials. Again as long as the mechanical attachments are in the mortar joints of the building between the bricks. So that's acceptable. Number two, existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of their time, place and use. New development is minimal here with just the attachment of the art on the side of the building. And the detailing and overall character are preserved here. That's acceptable. Architectural features including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights, and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing shall be considered. And again this artwork is not covering any of the defining features so that's acceptable. And then lastly actually that's the last one that applies here. And again the only recommendation was that any mechanical attachments to the building will be mounted in the mortar joints between the bricks. All in favor of the application as proposed. Raise your hand and speak your names. Eric. This is Martha. I say yes. Liz yes. So the application is approved. Thanks so much folks. And does he need to Yeah I'll email you both of these recommendation forms Bob but we'll get these out as soon as I can. Yeah this one you'll need to sign before I send out the permit. Thank you. Thanks Bob. Thank you and good luck with your project. Appreciate it. Bob I'll actually be in the office tomorrow. Do you want to just come in and sign them in person? I'll do that. Thank you Mary. Okay great. See you then. Bye bye. Bye. And next on the agenda is to review and approve the meeting minutes of July the 6th and the 19th as everyone had a chance to look at the Martha and Liz to look at the July the 6th minutes and do you have any changes or comments They look good to me Steve. And if so do I hear a motion to approve the minutes Martha and Liz. I move to approve the minutes of the July 6th meeting. This is Martha That one. Okay. Then all in favor speak your names. Martha Liz. And Steve. Eric abstained because he wasn't there. And then the minutes from the July the 19th meeting. And Eric I was there. You were there so I'll let you ask for the approval and the second for that one. Anybody move the meeting the minutes. Maybe you were Martha Eric, Ben, Martha are the only ones there. Yeah I've read them and they look good to me. I second All in favor. Eric says yes Martha yes So those minutes are approved as well. Does anyone have any other business? Yes. The last meeting I invited people from Design Review to come to the start preservation meeting because we're now starting work on the guidelines to go along with the regulations. Brandy Sacks has been hired and besides myself I would certainly as chair of the preservation commission I would love to have attendance from people in Design Review because Design Review is the ones that are going to use it and we're looking at what kind of illustrations we need what do we need for applicants, what kind of instructions we need for applicants and the general format So that's the next meeting Tuesday September 14th and what I can also do is open up we have a file share where we're sharing different photographs and other images including some other things from the cityscapes workbooks and I'll make sure to include I might even put up their brandy's table of contents that just had my little notes on it. That way you guys can see where we are at this point. The next meeting on the 14th is going to be probably fine tuning that table of contents and discussing like Eric said where we want to use illustrations, where we want to use photographs to help we really want this to be an illustration heavy document to help especially applicants and homeowners figure out how to comply with the regulations because our regulations are so specific there isn't going to need to be a lot of extra text other than helping to explain what different definitions mean. We're really leaning more towards a lot of photos and illustrations just so people can understand more what different terms mean. The other thing we want this to be is useful to people that maybe don't even have to apply for a design review application if they have an historic billing to get some guidelines what the appropriate thing to do with it is we want are going to emphasize the idea of the informal meeting so that people can get some guidance. Paint design review as not just a regulator but also a resource for people. Thank you. Anyone have anything else if not our next meeting is Tuesday, September the 7th and do I hear a motion to adjourn? Eric moves that. This is Martha. I second it. Okay. All in favor of adjournment raise your hand and or speak your names. Martha. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for coming.