 Good evening and welcome to the inaugural lecture in our spring lecture series. This is my great pleasure to introduce Bridget Shim, a co-founding partner along with Howard Sutcliffe of the world-renowned Toronto-based Shim Sutcliffe Architects. So for those of you who don't know me yet, I'm Eric Bungae. I teach design studios in both the core sequence and option studios. But first, tonight we gather in Lenapehoking, the unceded ancestral homeland of the Lenape peoples. I ask you to join me in acknowledging the Lenape community, their traditional territory, elders, ancestors and future generations, and in acknowledging as a school that Columbia, like New York City and the United States as a nation, was founded upon the exclusions and erasures of many indigenous peoples. GSAP is committed to addressing the deep history of erasure of indigenous knowledge in the professions of the built environment generally and in the Western tradition of architectural education specifically. With this, GSAP commits to confronting these institutional legacies as agents of colonialism and to honoring indigenous knowledge in its curricula. So I'm delighted to have been asked to introduce Bridget's lecture and respond to it for a number of reasons. For one, as a fellow Canadian, though long displaced, I suppose I've been called as a sort of witness who can testify to the importance of Shim Sutcliffe's work in Canada and the larger than life presence of Bridget herself, a voice that resonates from practice to academia and beyond to her generous service to the discipline as a frequent juror, board member and design review committee member. It's perhaps not that meaningful to someone outside the Canadian context to say that Shim Sutcliffe has won a total of 15 Governor General's medals in architecture of the course of their career. They're not quite like the Grand Slam, but these awards are similar to the AIA national award. It's very special for any firm, let alone a small firm to receive that many and to testament to the importance of their work in Canada. Last year, Shim Sutcliffe won the Royal Architecture Institute of Canada's 2021 gold medal. That's analogous to the AIA's own gold medal Canada's most prestigious award. But a second more important reason for my delight and welcoming Bridget to Columbia will be evident. Once you've had a chance to better understand the exquisitely exquisitely conceived architecture of Shim Sutcliffe. Their work stands out as a bulwark of invention and craft, at a time of ever increasing commercialization of the construction industry, and as a practice deeply rooted in a place at a time to a place at a time of globalization and placelessness. As such, their work is woven into a dialogue not only with materials fabricators technology and landscapes but with architectural history and culture itself. Bridget and Howard draw from and playfully continue the work of architects they have referred to as transitional, including the work of Oliver Alto, Sigurd Leverance, Gunnar Osblund, Carla Scarpa and Adolf Loos to name a few, but while clearly articulating their own consistent voice. But a third and more fundamental reason for my delight in welcoming Bridget this evening emerges from the humanism of her practice and aspect not only of their work, but other generous interaction with the many people who make their work possible from clients to collaborators to builders. It's so incredible to see how the credits of their projects will include like the master carpenter or a metal worker. How many architects even know the name of their carpenter on the job sites. I mean, I felt this generosity personally when we visited their now canonical integral house about 15 years ago, when it was under construction. As out of town guests we were treated tonight's office lunch, and an unhurried conversation about architecture coming from New York City who has the time. So we came away humbled, not only by the mastery witness on site, but the humanism of Bridget and Howard approach to life and architecture. It's this humanism that is in such short supply today, hence the urgency of this lecture tonight. In addition to formation suckless architects in 1994 Bridget is a professor at the john H Daniels faculty of architecture landscape and design at the University of Toronto, where she has taught since 1988. She's overseeing core design studios advanced design studios thesis studios and courses in the history and theory of architecture and landscape architecture. Born in Kingston, Jamaica, shim graduated from the University of Waterloo with degrees in environmental studies and architecture. In addition to teaching at Daniels Bridget has been an invited visiting professor at Yale. They call polytechnic. Harvard University's graduate school of design and the Cooper Union. After her 45 minute lecture, please stay for a short discussion which will be followed by q amp a. Please join me remotely and virtually in welcoming Bridget shim. Thank you. So thank you for your kind introduction Eric, and I look forward to sharing our work with you. I want to thank Columbia, and it's dynamic faculty and students for your invitation. So all of the work that I'm going to share is a collaboration between myself and my partner Howard Sutcliffe. We started our practice in 1994. We work in a renovated garage in Toronto, Canada, and I'll just start with sharing my screen and begin with the lecture so. Okay, so I hope you can see the first slide. And as Eric mentioned the kind of, there's for us an interest in, I would say the material manifestation of culture, place and time, and we really believe that architecture has the capacity to speak eloquently about who we are as a society, and what we value. So, and again within the complexities of these crazy global economies, and these quickly changing cultural conditions in our studio we believe that the value of architecture as a cultural force. Enables us to shape places that resonate and have meaning. So within this kind of world of placelessness we are really committed to place making and crafting place which is the title of this talk is really at the core of our body of work. And for us crafting place results from for from the interweaving of building and site. So, can you see the screen. Yes, it looks good. Okay, great. So the first image that I showed you is actually a view from a portion of a facade, situated in a Russian forest on the outskirts of Moscow, crafting place really requires the understanding of geomorphology, geography, local economies, local methods of fabrication to realize built form that resonates with the place in this pine forest that we're building in it's located at 54 degrees latitude in a seasonal climate. The prevalent tree in this forest is a Scott's pine or a Baltic pine that's really native to this part of Eurasia. They have a kind of scaly brown, dark gray bark, and they're really quite remarkable because the mature tree is extremely straight and tall with most of the mass of the foliage being at the very top of the tree with very little under story so this is a photo at the top taken in the spring and in the bottom taken in the middle of winter. And in a way, you know, this is kind of the starting point for this project. In Russia there's a really, really rich history of brick as a material, and many of the buildings in the core of Moscow, including the Kremlin and all of its fortifications are made of brick. So we worked with a company called Pedersen Tagel, and we designed 22 custom shapes for this project. We were able to mix the bricks so really using some bricks that had sandblasted surfaces, glaze surfaces, plain surfaces, and that mix of bricks enabled us to situate a new building within an existing pine forest with the hope of feeling like it belongs to that place. So this is a view of some of the bricks, and in a way the kind of bricks helped us to create an undulating curtain of brick inspired by the sapling trees found in this existing forest. So the bricks claim to be interested in materials but we, Howard and I feel that the choice of materials is a fundamental decision for every project that really sets up this material manifesto that is so fundamental to the to the relationship between place, geography and site, which enables us to kind of be of that place. So we always imagine ourselves at the time of a project, asking whether it will be a good ruin, and if it's a good ruin it might have the potential to be a good building. So this role of time and aging and the forces of nature, and how they act on buildings is really an important consideration for us in every project that we do. So this is a full size mock-up of this kind of brick facade, and we actually built this on the site with the actual bricks. So we were pairing a handmade organic brick with laser cut precise pieces of horizontal weathering steel. The steel acts as snow catchers in the middle of the winter, and this full size mock-up was exposed over several seasons to really understand the impact of aging and weathering. We were able to monitor and observe the calculated provocation of intensity between the wild and unpredictable forces of nature, and the control precision of contemporary fabrication. In fact, it helps us to address universal issues of architecture while building in local conditions that are grounded by latitude and longitude, by climate, geomorphology and place. So for us, drawing is a fundamental dimension of our practice, enabling us to question and test and re-examine aspects of our work. This drawing shows a portion of the main elevation and the articulated shaped bricks that form the building facade. So here we are at 54 degrees latitude in a climatic zone, and you can see this kind of relationship between the really precise horizontals made of weathering steel, creating the framework for the handmade bricks itself. And on the left, you can see a kind of typical tree from this forest, this kind of scaly brown bark. And then we actually created a series of fins that allow portions of the facade to levitate. And then in a way this project is not complete, so I'm not going to show you final photos, but we're always trying to create the illusion that the building has always been on the site, contributing in effect to placemaking and being able to insert new buildings into places where they should belong. The application of materials and their eloquent assembly is an essential dimension of our definition of architecture. This is a photograph of Howard in a shop flame cutting a piece of a weathering steel roof for one of our early projects. And here's a view of that flame-cutted piece, and this was photographed three decades after it was completed. We're questioning whether a building will become a good ruin, and if it's a good ruin, maybe it's a good building. The role of the full-size mock-up is really fundamental in our practice. Anytime you step outside of the norms of kind of everyday specifications of building systems, the mock-up is really an essential part of testing the unknown and enabling us to really experiment in our work. We're exploring different materials, understanding their properties, their potential, and we work with many fabricators who enable us to realize our ideas and transform a sketch or a drawing into built work. So this is a view of the mock-up, and here's a view of the project that it's for, this is called the Weathering Steelhouse, and in a way the kind of mock-up is one portion of this facade that was really trying to understand methods of fabrication, and the appearance. Many of our projects are small in scale, but they need to claim a much larger territory through an active engagement of both architecture and landscape. This is a very Canadian condition given the scale of our country, and so no matter how big a building it is, it actually seems quite small in relation to the landscape. We're always interested in blurring the boundaries between inside and out. In this view of the same project, we're really creating a new foreground through our architecture. So we're using profilate industrial glass, cantilevered out to create a covered outdoor area, which allows you to view a natural Toronto ravine in the distance. And its ability to capture or harness its power is a preoccupation in our built work. This is a study model for a synagogue that we did in Portland, Maine, and it's really there to just think about light and to understand how to utilize it and harness it. We're always trying to amplify our winter light and shade ourselves against the harsh summer light. In Toronto we're at 43 degrees latitude. This is a project for a summer camp for a non-profit. We're really trying to register the time of day. We're using off-the-shelf greenhouse glazing combined with glulam frames and metal tie rods. And then down the center are two by fours, really very elemental part of our construction industry, and it's really there to connect light and natural ventilation. In this recent project we use a series of Douglas fir clad trusses combined with clear story windows to help us shape space through light. This is in a project called the Lake Koaguma retreat. So we really live in Toronto in a seasonal climate, and we want to harness light as a force to help us continually recalibrate our understanding of place and context. As architects we want to paint with light. So this is a view of the integral house that Eric referred to in the winter. And you can see this low sun angles, which are really a result of this kind of amazing winter light, and how we use these deep wooden fins to really help us to shape the space through light. And we also want to bring nature into our projects. In the Toronto ravines, the black locust, which is found in many of our ravines is one of the most predominant tree species, which is part of the Virgin Carolinian forest. So this is a view of the project a project where we actually used the leaf pattern of the black locust to really create privacy while still having views out. Linking light and nature is an ongoing interest. So the only color that you see in this difference between the previous slide and this one is actually the fall leaves that help to literally transform the space through the seasons. So you can see that nature and culture are always interwoven together in our work. Water is another life force that we use to craft place in our work. This is a view of a project called Leadbury Park and we designed a pedestrian bridge using off the shelf weathering steel elements that was fabricated off site and brought on site. And then you can see a skate change pavilion on the left is a garage for the Zamboni machines and then a reflecting pool. This is another view of that same area and in the far distance is actually a public swimming pool. Another project. This is the Weathering Steelhouse where you can see the linking of a natural pool with water lilies and then a swimming pool, but they really appear to be visually connected. And the same view in winter and we love the use of winter water in our climatic zone. It allows us to register subtle shifts of temperature through states of change from steam to mist ice and these things are so pleading and the way that water is able to register that we feel is so special. We really embrace the delight of winter water in intimate small spaces. We really celebrate winter as a season. This is a view of a Toronto ravine and you can see a lone cross country skier and the at the bottom of the image. We just had a huge snowstorm a few days ago and in a way it was remarkable to watch the city transform. We love winter as a season and we're really obsessed with thinking about our buildings in every season. Maybe it was because I was born in Kingston, Jamaica and we arrived in February in the middle of a snowstorm. So the role of winter water in the public realm is an ongoing investigation. This is a small fountain at Leadbury Park. And then the same reflecting pool actually transforms to become a skating rink in the winter. This is a very early project, the orchard house. So it's a plywood house inserted into an existing apple orchard and we actually got our photographer to come out in a snowstorm to shoot the project. And then we love this view from the kitchen sink where you're really situated in the apple orchard and we're always thinking about our projects from the outside in and from the inside out. Our work is an ongoing laboratory for living and we're always experimenting with new ideas and pushing limits to discover new ways of inhabiting space. In parallel with buildings we have realized about 50 objects, including furniture, lights, door handles, boat cleats, pedestrian bridges. And we're really interested in the way that through their eloquent assembly, these inert materials, wood, brick, steel, concrete are able to speak. This is just a double spread of a whole series of different prototypes. Some are done by hand, some are 3D modeled. We've been doing a lot of 3D printing in bronze and stainless steel. And this kind of experimentation happens in every project in different scales, but this just gives you a kind of sense of the kind of range of ongoing investigations. We explore work at the scale of landscape at the scale of architecture and at the scale of furniture. This is a kind of view from the fabrication shop of me and camper who fabricate and distribute this chair. You're seeing a cardboard prototype. We worked with them to create vacuum formed plywood molds that become the template for the chair. And then here is an elevation of the chair itself. So you can see that it's actually maple wood combined with a stainless steel frame. And then here you can see on the left a kind of metal version of that same chair, and on the right one of our firefly lands. And then there's a series of boat cleats where you can see a cardboard mock-up on the left, a sand casting, and then a bronze, the final version in bronze with an off-the-shelf stainless steel shackle. We also consider the door handle as the handshake of a building, and we've been designing custom hardware for many of our projects. So we're really interested in rethinking the role of craft in architecture, and we're at an amazing moment where the possibilities of computer fabrication using 3D printing can actually change the level of craft that's possible, affordable, and actually doable. So here you're seeing a door handle on the very far left is actually done out of plasticine. Then the next one in from the left is actually made out of wood, and then it gets digitized, and then the gray and the white version are 3D prints in plastic, and then the last two on the right are 3D prints in bronze. So here you can see a whole series of other experiments and the kind of way that we think about the right kind of material for a specific project. We also love 3D printing in plastic, so in a way for this project we were inspired by the powerful Inuit sculptures in the Canadian Arctic that often use whale vertebrae as a medium for carving. And we created a 3D printed lamp where the light, the plastic, the light is transmitted through the plastic, as if it were being transmitted through the whale bone itself. And here's a view of that light in a meeting room that we designed in Hong Kong. We love developing these custom pieces and we love combining both customized elements and ready-made pieces. So this sketch is using a ubiquitous mason jar, which is everywhere for pickling and preserving with a series of mylar shapes to create a new light. And this is the prototype of that light, which is really an experiment. There is only one of these that exist. And then we developed that light further and actually transformed the mason jar into scientific glass, combined it with bronze mesh, and created a series of organic resin-shaped pieces with phosphorescent powder. So when you turn the light off, there's actually a glow. And we love the kind of use of this kind of elements that you do when you're a kid at your summer cottage, catching fireflies in a jar and creating a sense of wonder and delight, which we love to do at every scale. So that's just a long introduction and it gives you a sense of some of the things that interest us. Before this lecture, I thought what I would do is share a very selected number of projects. The first will be a Taoist temple in suburban Toronto, then a home for Catholic nuns at the edge of a Toronto ravine. And then a project on the Canadian Shield, a series of buildings on a kind of exposed rugged piece of rock. And then the last project is an urban hotel in downtown Toronto that is not quite finished yet, but we have some great construction photos. So, so I'll just start. This is the Wong Dai Sin Temple, which is a really a modern sacred space that houses a very dynamic Taoist community. There are two outskirts of Toronto on the other side of the street, there's a strip mall, a gas station. And here is this temple, a place of worship on a suburban arterial road is a kind of challenge and what does a kind of Taoist temple look like. You can see that we actually have two very large cantilevers, the one on the left where all the people in yellow are is actually a 10.2 meter cantilever. And then on the other side there's a 5.2 meter cantilever and a series of structural supports, and then along a kind of large grade beam at the bottom. There's all post tension concrete and all of the metal is weathering steel. So here you can see a section where you can see the 10.2 meter cantilever the 5.2, and then the raft foundation so the dotted lines below is actually a kind of huge raft that supports and anchors, the two, the two post tension cantilevers. So the part of this kind of structural virtuosity is to really create a series of parking spaces below the building. And when we were working with the client we had some early sketch models, and they love the fact that the cantilever created something akin to a Tai Chi pose, something that was asymmetrical counterbalanced, but also in equilibrium at the same time. So it allowed us to meet these stringent parking requirements for a place of worship near a residential neighborhood, and we were able to also utilize the space for doing Tai Chi outside in the summertime. So the buildings exterior on the north and south facades is clad in shaped weathering steel so through this section you can see the way that we've shaped the steel, and then you can also see these circular skylights that provide natural light in the space, and they're all operable motorized to create really a central nation. So here's a view in the of the cantilever. And this is a view from the north side looking back to the street. So here's a view on the west elevation facing the neighbors and it's really a kind of blank wall ensuring privacy, but you can see through to the structure and you can see these paired concrete structural frames that actually support the project and the two cantilevers on either side. So here's another view. This is the concrete related to the stair on the second floor, and then we've carved out openings to provide views and light to come down to this lower level. And here's another view of these pair concrete fins that actually are tied together through the raft foundation. And this is the second cantilever in the foreground that is access the counterweight for the larger cantilever. There's an entrance canopy that denotes the main entrance to the space. And then here is one of the outdoor terraces and you can see the way we've used structural glass on the floor to bring light into the lower level. And then once you're inside you can see these circular light monitors that we created. And they both bring natural light into the space and they are used to hang these large coils of incense that they burn all the time. And then above these light monitors are motorized skylights that all open up and they can ventilate the space really easily. And so what happens is they'll be burning all the incense, all of the ashes drop to the floor, it's a concrete floor and then they can sweep them all up and it's really part of their daily ritual. There's an interior space that is actually all done in bamboo and it is their memorial hall and it's where they honor their ancestors. So these bamboo plaques are used and they all have carvings on them and names of your ancestor and you will go there and burn incense to honor your loved ones. And here you can see these fins on the exterior that are really shaped to provide privacy and also create cross ventilation on the inside with these large floor to ceiling windows, and then they use the space in the summertime for Tai Chi in a covered outdoor area. And here you get a sense of the kind of concrete on the underside of these post tensioned concrete cantilevers. The next project is built for a group of Catholic nuns. They're sorry that they're called the Sisters of St. Joseph's who arrived in Toronto in the 1950s. The sisters wanted a new home, and they wanted it to be in harmony with the ravine, following its contour lines. They also wanted the most sustainable building they could afford and that really spoke to their core values. And so in the end we priced everything all the time. We actually ended up with geothermal for all of the heating and cooling for the building, cisterns, green roofs and solar panels. For the project we created a double loaded corridor in the center and two single loaded wings. And at every curve, there's a series of communal spaces. And here's a view of the project when viewed from the Toronto, an aerial looking at both the Toronto ravine and the project at the edge of a very ordinary residential post war neighborhood. And I would say the building defines the line between the city and nature. The green piece you can see in the middle of the one of the curves is actually the chapel with its own green roof, and really the heart and soul of the building. Here's another view where you can see the way that the natural contours are being recalibrated and our understanding of both nature and the city nature potential to really create this kind of edge between the city and the ravine. And here's a view of the green roof on the chapel which is really the heart and soul of the building. And you can see it in relation to the skyline of the city beyond. So here's the kind of ground floor plan where we are using the kind of natural grade to create below level meeting rooms and then upper level rooms. And you can see the chapel which is situated in a reflecting pool in the heart of the building. In the upper portion you can see the role of the double loaded corridors, and then the two single loaded corridors that really create in effect these urban porches. The front entrance, there was an 1850s residence on the site itself. When we first started the project the sisters asked if we could move it or tear it down. It took about a year to convince them that we could keep the existing building and restore it and use it and incorporate it into our new home for them. So here's a view of the main entrance and a kind of the windows beyond are really this urban porch of these single loaded corridors. And then a view in winter and we really always love to photograph our buildings in winter to really give you a sense of this kind of seasonal experience so you're seeing the 1850s house the Taylor House on the right. And then you're seeing the kind of main facade of the building on the left. And here you can see one of the reflecting pools that we designed and the termination of a series of vertical sun shades that are core 10 steel on the outside, and a powder coated aluminum on the inside. And so in a way this kind of articulation of the building envelope and creating both privacy sun shading and a kind of image to the building. And here's a view again of the front entrance and on the driveway there are about 64 geothermal pipes that go about 250 feet into the ground that give all the heating and cooling for the building. And a view from the city to the project in winter, and a view from one of the upper level urban porches to the neighborhood beyond. This is a view of the lobby which is a really thin lobby on the very far right you see are what we call double double peanut columns, they're kind of a shaped double column, a single column, a reflecting pool. And then on the very far left is the edge of the trap chapel and beyond the reflecting pool you can see the Toronto we're being beyond. This is one of the double loaded corridors that really are at the core of the building, a lot of the nursing stations and rehab spaces are in the center. And then the single loaded corridors we can see both as urban portions, they're full of natural light they have operable windows and they're full of use of the neighborhood. And in a way we really see this project as a kind of model for long term care. And these facilities in Canada in particular we're very hard hit the beginning of the pandemic. In a way the kind of design of these spaces are ones where you might want to live later in life. Each sister has a window looking both to the urban porch, and also to the ravine. And then one of the things that we really spent a lot of time on was the, the chapel which we really consider the heart and core of the building so this is a plan where you can see the chapel surrounded by reflecting pool ramps that actually bring you up from the garden into the, the chapel space. And then here's the chapel shown in section. We actually did a step section to so we create outdoor terraces and each floor in the project is different and has its own character. So this is the threshold to the chapel and you can see the reflection pool beyond. This is the view from the second floor of the chapel, where we actually provided access from the more infirm for the more infirm sisters to come directly from their rooms into the second floor of the chapel. These are the stations of the cross on pivoting wood panels, and they brought these from their old monastery to this new home. And here's the double height space which is really the kind of center of the chapel. And a view looking out to the landscape beyond so this kind of role of water embracing you, the fact that you're really aware of nature and this push and pull between inside and outside views of the structure and the kind of landscape beyond the views of the reflecting pool and this is the ramp that brings you up to the actual chapel from the outside, and then views at night, where really it becomes the heart and soul of the whole project. This next project is actually a place called point William, and this is a recent publication that we did the architecture of point William a laboratory for living. And one of the esteemed professors at Columbia Kenneth Frampton wrote the text for it, along with Michael web from California. The project really begins by indicating the elements that are key to this part of Canada. This is a kind of view of the, on the left a drawing of the sedimentary rock the granite. And then on the right both a view of the found condition, and then the granite gravel that we use throughout the project. This is a kind of mixed hardwood forest and you can see the role of logging. This whole area has been logged probably twice and so we're never looking at a virgin forest. And we're always looking at one that man has shaped through through logging. And then the kind of lakes that are here. This is a kind of underwater view of the, the elevation the back of the of these lakes in Muskoka, and a view of the water itself so these kind of elements that shape the project fundamentally. And then the fortunate that Ken Frampton was able to visit the site. And when he was there, he actually sketched in his sketchbook to really start to understand the elements and so in our book we actually published pieces of Ken sketchbook. And then on the right hand side, and you can start to see these buildings that exist on the site and the new buildings that were added so so really when we say point William it's literally a point a peninsula that just into one of the lakes in the Muskokas. And then you're seeing, I don't know if you can see my cursor there's a boat house, a guest cottage a main house in a garage and a landscape ties the whole thing together. And one of the things that I think we really did in the project was to remove things that were already there. There was a piece of an existing house that sat on top of this rock, and we erased it to really reveal what is a really amazing natural structure. And then by edging it with the court and steel we actually allowed it to have a presence on the site. And then we use the same granted of the rock but in a crushed form to create the sort of horizontal surface. And on the left hand side are a series of Kenneth Frampton sketches that are starting to kind of dissect and deconstruct the rock and the space. Inside we actually are creating indoor porches and are experimenting again with ceiling planes that go from the inside to the outside. We're working with very deep weathering steel fins that are shaping the project itself. And then we also present in effect a series of Howard's charcoal drawings, graphite drawings that are really part of the kind of image of the project exploring its kind of identity within the Canadian landscape. So the first piece of so this project actually extended over two decades we didn't work on it for two decades we're not that slow, but we actually did multiple buildings at different times. The first one was a boat house and here you can see a corner of the boat house itself, where we're combining in effect heavy timbers with other uses of wood to create a level of plasticity within a wood architecture. This is a drawing on the left where you can see these underwater cribs that are done in the winter that create the infrastructure that that everything sits on so this kind of heavy rugged underwater infrastructure allowing in effect these boat houses to exist over the water. And on the right hand side of view from the inside, where we're using very fine one by fours of Douglas fir to create the shape ceilings. And then here you're seeing a view of on the right hand side a steel column, supporting a kind of wooden cantilever so we're kind of combining in effect these hybrid conditions of wood and steel. And on the left hand side is actually a drawing where you can see the steel that's clad in wood that's supporting a steel beam that's actually supporting a kind of wooden cantilever. And here's the light that I showed you earlier in its actual location. And then again experiments. This was done about this project was done quite a while ago, but you can see experiments in bronze rod that actually reminds you of snowshoes or frames, and this kind of ongoing experiment at these multiple scales of hardware of the spaces and then of the landscape at the same time. We love doing drawings where here we're actually showing both the plan of the docs where you can see two indoor boat slips one outdoor boat slip. And then we're showing you the reflected ceiling plan of that space. And the RCP is always a really important drawing for us it actually shapes spaces and and that we're really interested in what the underside of the ceiling looks like as a way to to shape spaces at the same time. And then here you're seeing in effect the boat house itself, the upper level. So one main room. It's about 640 square feet. And then on the right hand side you're seeing the reflected ceiling plan both of the indoor and of the outdoor spaces. So in a way I would say this is an early project but one where we're really experimenting with these possibilities. And I think that we continue that as we do these other buildings on the same site. So here's a view of the boat house taken a while ago but you're seeing in effect the entry of the boats with these boat garages covered outdoor spaces indoor spaces covered porches looking out to the landscape. And then again this these conditions of cantilevered portions that provide shading for outdoor boat slips as well as outdoor terraces at the same time at the upper level. And then the view again looking back of the kind of hybrid structural conditions. And then a view from the shoreline again this kind of shift of scale through winter. There was actually an existing cottage on the site, the image on the left and black and white is the before condition. And we could retain this on site but we had to keep the silhouette, the footprint, and we could not alter the kind of volume or the size of the building. So we actually we actually consider this renovation and essay on the vernacular. So on the right is the finished version on the left is the before. And so here we are working with a very normative plan for this area so it's a core with a wrapper porch. So after seeing the plan, and on the right you're seeing the reflected ceiling plan and the reflected ceiling plan you can see the core of the building, and then the porch which is articulated with exposed rafters on the perimeter. And then here's a view of it from the outside, and you can see the expression of the underside of the ceiling outside that extends inside. So here's a view of that same building, and the entire exterior is clad in a stacked wood, which is very common for this area, a lot of wood burning stoves and using stacked wood, and making sure it's protected so the all of the sloping ruse and horizontal surfaces are all done in weathering steel. And you can see this big rock in the foreground. This building which is called a cottage but maybe bigger than what most people would think it's a cottage has a series of these deep core can steel clad fins, which go from outside to inside. And there. This is a view from the point of point William, and you can see it's clad in wood and bronze and stone at the base and you can see it situated at the point. The relationship between the existing granite rock and the building is really key and important. And then aerial view where you're seeing the green roofs and the kind of wooden roofs and the metal roofs. And you can actually see that big rock on the upper portion of this image. You can see from the water looking back and you can see the way that some of the pieces of wood, the wood cladding is actually transparent. And it becomes a way to let light into the project. And then in elevation you can see the relationship of the natural topography to the line of the house and on the right hand side you're seeing these deep wooden deep quartet steel fins. The base being stone and then wood above. And then this is the entry where you're seeing a series of granite steps clad in bronze, and then you're also seeing the door handle that was designed for the project. And you're seeing these deep quartet steel fins that really shape your experience once you're inside. You can see some of the door handles that we designed, but you can see that the shape of the ceiling of the interior and the shape of the door handles have a resonance and we're kind of always playing with these multiple scales at the same time. A view of the living room where you're seeing the upper portion being exposed. You're seeing the windows bringing light in, and then a view looking out in the middle of winter so this kind of changing landscape that we really love to kind of capture these multiple seasons that our projects existed. This is the plan where you can see and affect the core. There's a porch in the upper portion of the plan, the main living space, and then a core bedroom so there's kind of like these intimate in effect contained rooms and very expansive rooms and the relationship between the two. And then again the reflected ceiling plan of the same area where you can see the shaping of the ceiling to really articulate each of the rooms that are there. There's a section where you can see the kind of shape ceiling of the living room and these other pieces and its relationship to the natural topography. So here we are at the entry. And then you can see these very deep fins on the right hand side. And the way that as you move along they both frame views, and they shape views in a very cinematic way. And then this kind of shaping of some of the ceilings that really create in effect these porches and rooms that you articulate in plan, the ceiling actually allows you to shape spatially. And then the ceiling also allows you to bring light and shape the way that light enters the spaces. And here's a view in winter where you can see the way that the slow winter sun angle really brings the light right into the project of you looking back to both the dining and the kind of fireplace area. And then looking out towards the lake. And again the kind of shape ceilings of the living space. In this case we were able to design through 3D printed metal, all of the fireplace equipment and so in a way they become part of this kind of scale of industrial design that becomes part of the architecture. The last project that I wanted to share with you is the Ace Hotel in Toronto. I've been working on this project for a while, and it should be opening in the spring of 2022 this year. Unfortunately they were delayed by some of the pandemic so they've been locked down twice, and the construction site had to be closed and then reopened again. But they're anticipating May of this year to be the opening of the new hotel. We're situated in downtown Toronto in the neighborhood of these red brick warehouse buildings that were so ubiquitous and part of the urban sort of garment district in Toronto. And Toronto is a city of red bricks, and you can see a variety of them in this photo. And so we really began by wanting to create a fabric building. Early sketches, thinking about the facade, and then it's also located across from a public park. It's called St Andrews Playground, which is one of the oldest parks in Toronto. And so you can see our building and it's a 14 story building but we're also playing with this double scale so each of the bays in the elevation is actually two stories. We wanted to kind of shift the reading of scale and maybe be not really, really at the end using the kind of robust depth of many of the industrial buildings to be part of the project. And so here's some early drawings where we're looking at the brick facade. And again you can see this double scale the horizontal band between within each of the bays is actually a spandrel panel. There's actually two floors of the hotel within it, with a kind of more glazed lower level. So here you can see a view, looking down the street, and we really wanted it to feel like an urban building within the fabric of Toronto, using red brick and actually, you know, building it with the very ordinary building material of our city. So here's a view, a drawing of the corner of the building. I would say in Toronto we actually make decent buildings but really bad corners. And so this is trying to capture one street Brant Street, looking onto the park and Camden Street, and really articulating and shaping the corner. So this is a view of the north facade with the entrance and ramps bringing up luggage into the space and the exposed steel beams that are part of the exterior. And this is a really early study model where we're looking at a series of large port in place concrete beams that become the transfer beams from the hotel floors above to the lobby of the hotel below. So all of this structure exposed to become part of the experience of the lobby space. So this is a very early study model. These are some early drawings so again the role of drawing being fundamental to how we practice and how we think about architecture. So here you can see the kind of port in place frame, and then the lobby is actually slid in but into the space itself, and actually hung by rods from this, this main superstructure of this port in place concrete. Here's some early study models again looking at the view of the lobby looking out to the public park St Andrews playground beyond. The view of one of the hotel rooms, and we conceived of them as urban cabins. So there's all Douglas fur, and we actually used canvas on the walls to really create a kind of intimate space within the heart of the city. And then some construction photos that really give you a sense of what the site look like. So, so here we are looking. This was these were taken about three days ago. And here's actually the view of the kind of at the near the entrance and you can see the piece on the left that's projecting out is actually the the lobby. And you can see the rods that are supporting it from the kind of port in place concrete frames. Here's a view from the lobby looking back to the park and you can see these large scale knuckles that we designed. Here's the main space so all those report in place concrete with steel that's part of the form work and we wanted the space to be you, you know, you, we wanted the space to feel civic. We wanted you to not be certain whether it was a new building or an existing building. And this question of time becomes a kind of part of the experience of the space. Here's an overview of the kind of knuckles. And the kind of from the other end looking back at the space. Under construction the stairs where the threads are articulated, and the rods are actually holding up this part of the stair. And then a final view looking back. So within a world of placelessness we really remain committed to placemaking. So whether it is urban or non urban. And for us crafting place is at the core of our body of work and crafting place results from the interweaving of building insight. Thank you so much. I'm going to stop here. If we were all together bridge in here, we'd hear lots of applause. Thank you so much for your talk. Oh, I want to start by zooming way out from after having really enjoyed the many scales of your of your work and just just way out to the sort of national scale for a moment. Canada has 37 million people, about one ninth of the US, but it basically has the economy the size of Texas. And while Canada is just barely within the 10, the list of 10 richest countries, you know GDP per capita is still or purchasing power parity is lower than the than the US which effectively means that Canadians are a little bit poor, you know things are a bit for Canadians. You know that's that said, Canadian cities like your hometown consistently rank or score much higher than US cities in the global livability rankings, which you're probably all very proud of. You know, why because of great education public health system, good job market lower crime. So, I'm wondering with the many sort of cultural and economic ties between the US and Canada. And so we're very proud of each other's biggest trading partners right, because we could be forgiven for sort of forgetting that that that were different, that they're different. And, but what I my question is what makes practicing architecture in Canada different for you. What makes your work, if not necessarily uniquely Canadian uniquely possible in Canada. Well, I would say the, we've been very lucky to work with amazing clients, and you, and we have lots of very low budget small scale projects, as well as larger projects. I would say projects like the point William project that we showed was actually done over two decades. The client was trained as an architect, but didn't practice architecture, and being able to really experiment with on the same site for two decades is just an amazing opportunity. One building the next building the next building over this kind of long span. We actually work with the same contractors for to build all four buildings on the site and to do the landscape. It's kind of kind of very complex procurement process for architects so most architects have to submit RFPs and RFQs and they run after every project in a way projects like point William just allow us to really experiment. So, I don't think we did a change order for any of the four projects that we did, but we can, but we work with super great craftsmen who are all from the local area, and we work with people in the Toronto and combine so many different things. So this ability to experiment is really hard and really tough. And I think that where you can have the opportunities to really just try a lot of things and explore, you know, what is what is craft like that that's an interesting and how do you define that. How do you define that in a super low budget project and find that in a higher end project I think that those are really important questions at the kind of so architecture has become so streamlined and mainstream. I feel like we always try to step out of that and work, you know, often with pretty tough budgets like really like low low when I say low they're really low, but then to find ways of being invented within those norms, and to really get away from this mainstream approach where you're specifying, you know, con here or whatever the system is. So when you specify those things they control everything, control the warranty they control everything and so you have little room for invention for you. You're basically shopping. Yeah, but but I would say that's something that you know the US and Canada may maybe share and I've read that your approach to this question of industry is not so much an active resistance as insistence is at least the way that I enjoyed and there's so much discussion around your work. You know the centered on the issue of craft versus industry. And I noticed in your early projects like you didn't show it today but the laneway house. As you say that even with lower budgets, you know you bring craft to work with concrete block for instance. But in point Williams, one of your later projects right where your client famously said that they gave you an unlimited budget and you exceeded it. At what point, Bridget, do you decide it's worth it to make something or just buy something and you alluded to that you know at what point, especially when you do have a modest budget. Do you just buy it or and what happens when a doorknob breaks and you have a service contract to think about maintenance. Do they call you up. I would say that you know one of the things I was trying to show with some of the lighting pieces we love this kind of off the shelf and customized and how to bring the two together so you take something that's super ordinary and so ubiquitous and how you combine that with something else actually make something new, and this kind of play between the kind of everyday regular and then the custom for us is super interesting because it just allows a level of kind of pushing and pulling kind of reinventing with the kind of everyday pieces of life and so we're always really interested in exploring those things and so this kind of multi scalar approach. I think really helps us with with really low budget projects, because we can be very discerning about where to put your effort. You don't you don't do it everywhere but where you do it it really counts and really matters. Let's expand on this a little. You mentioned basically what I guess referring to a kind of a vernacular as well like that there is this kind of connection to the everyday or the known types. But it's the question of influence which I find usually to be quite limiting. I can be very kind of reductive. Maybe there's a ghost of modernism in it in our rejecting the topic but you and Howard have have positioned your practice in reference to other architects you you gamely and you know speak about that with candor and so I find that very interesting and maybe, therefore it's possible to ask you about this but I mean, you know how you describe the dialogue that you do have with, I mean, we've mentioned I'll turn scarpa but I would like to just also propose a show and pledge Nick, I see, you know, as very kind of and those are also favorites of mine as well or one can even say Wittgenstein with his door knobs hardware hardware. So, you know, if we think about architects like the late Enrique Miralles who would engage in a dialogue with buildings that that he would double. He would say another one. And he would, he and his former partner kind of, you know, would take a building and basically duplicate it and you know in their own way. I'm curious what is the dialogue specifically, you know, between your work and and this larger, you know, larger family but even specifically your, you know, your residence for the Sisters of St. Joseph and Alvaraltos Baker House MIT. So I would say, I would say we feel like we're part of the modernist project. And I would say that they're, I would say all of the architects that you mentioned I mean I would consider mentors. And we've actually traveled to see all those buildings. You know, we've been to Finland many times and to actually physically see those spaces to be in those buildings is just a kind of architectural education. We went to architecture school, but we all need to be educated as architects. And I would say that, you know, the kind of canonical architects like the, you know, me's and core. I actually only discovered later that I love their work coming around. And I would say that we, you know, we ended up early in our architectural after we graduated I received a Canada Council grant from Canada Council. And we used it to travel to Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland. And I actually actually saw so much amazing work it was a really early in our career and I would say it was so formative for us to actually go to see all that work. We actually saw spare fans work really early on and ended up speaking at his 80th birthday symposium like many years later. And that was the first time we had met him but we felt we already knew him because we had seen the projects. We had visited the work we've done our sketches there. And so I feel like there's such a kind of remarkable body of built work to be always learning from. And one of the things I lament because I teach to students of architecture is sometimes people figure like I've seen it on Instagram so I actually know what the building is and you have no idea about what the spaces are like to be in you don't really have a sense of the context, the physicality of you know what is a forest how big is it. All those things really shape your understanding of architecture. And you just have to go there you can't, nothing replicates it sometimes a monograph is great because it's fulsome, but it still doesn't replicate the active actually experiencing buildings in space and time. I feel like that's been fundamental to our education. And I think you're in awe of these amazing architects who did so many incredible things right like a pledge Nick and every all the people that you mentioned are just really super inspiring and so masterful. When I speak about the forest for a minute I was struck by the images of the forest in Moscow. And I think, you know, generally when your work is written about you know of course one speaks about the different scales of your work and the different details, and it is amazing how you, you know bring such focus to all these scales. I confess that I felt like Alice in Wonderland falling through the looking glass and or finding myself very small inside a cabinet as I as I read your point Williams book. It was a funny moment I don't know if you notice this Bridget, when you're hovering your mouse over the screen, this auto description automatically generated kept on popping up. And the computer I guess in your screen thought that point Williams was quote a boat traveling along a body of water. It was very funny. But you know your houses I guess approach the idea of a total work of architecture, and this this has been written, and here we are reminded of of course a frankly right. But I want to speak more about the way you treat different disciplines. You know, you, the landscape for instance. And it seems as if the landscape, you know, or an urban content in the urban conditions you build in the urban context is your main literal reference material you look at the landscape, the bark of the trees, the, you know whatever it is. And then somehow, when you do Google search of your works, I see whites and rounds the quartets that you know the woods and there's this palette punctuated by certain colors but ultimately looks as if the landscape is your driving kind of inspiration, but also your transparency you know you even use the word palette when describing a site, as if the natural conditions are already yours to manipulate. So, but my question is more about the disciplinary aspect and you've written that quote. And I hear I quote you that you believe that the perceived boundaries between the disciplines of architecture landscape and urban design, visual art and forestry are artificial. I think you're giving some advice to students and they're very, very powerful, but how are you able to do it all how are you able to, you know expand practice and deal with all of it. And you know what point you step back and just call up a specialist that you orchestrate. So we work with lots of specialists, you know, and in a way, you know, we, we, we work with huge teams like you know with the sisters project we had 40 consultants so like everyone else. We have landscape architects that we work with horticulturalist we work with a whole army of people, but I feel like this kind of, I guess maybe the thing I resist or kind of is this kind of professionalism so there's kind of like a boundary of what do architects do and it's kind of like defined with a dotted line. And what do architects do, and what do interior designers do. And I guess I'm so uninterested in the professional boundaries, because I feel that they're totally arbitrary. And when you experience space all these canonical projects that we were talking about that, you know, most of those architects were transitional figures between classicism and modernism. They knew classicism extremely well, and they had to then make the shift to redefine their work through modernism so interesting such an amazing time period to be alive. And I would say that one of the things that we think about our this are this, how you move in space through space between inside and outside, and we want to create rich spatial experiences. We don't really care if you're an architect or landscape architect or into your like those. It's actually about how you create and shape space that matters, and how you move between inside and outside that's really important. And to do that you need to think about the landscape and you need to think about a door handle and you need to think about all these things that constitute a rich spatial experience. So we, we work with landscape architects and we work with horticulturalists, but we don't call ourselves landscape architects but we, but we think very deeply about all of these things. I'm reminded by an essay by James corner in which he articulates the difference between the word landscape and landscape in German, where landscape comes from the English tradition of painting escape of course comes from vision. Whereas land shaft comes from work working the land and sort of the already long emerged distinction between the different modes of sort of thinking about and producing landscape. I mean it's become so much more complex now with environmental issues, resilience and so on. I mean I wonder at what point does your disciplinary limit is it reached. And as you scale up you know you have to kind of not let go but sort of layer on sort of different kinds of thinking about you know about landscape. So in the project in Moscow partway through the client thought, we should just add a few lakes. So, so they added a few lakes. And so we ended up designing a pedestrian bridges crossing over the lakes and. So in a way I just think that you know those are really interesting questions for us and really interesting dimensions that we really love to explore and I have one more question for you, and then audience please post questions in the chat, and I see that there's one already and which I'll read in a minute but. So, our dear Ken Frampton wrote in writing about your residence for the sisters of St. Joseph Toronto. In an issue of Canadian architect wrote quote, there's a crucial moment in the maturation of any practice when the size and the genre of the Commission suddenly shift. It constitutes an opportunity to amplify a particular approach at a larger scale. At the same time, this shift presents a syntactical and ideological challenge to the architect, since such a change usually involves a move from the domestic to the public scale. So it's impossible to focus on the same things regardless of scale obviously and Pierre charot is basically famous for one house. So do you enjoy working at larger scales and what are the social or even political aspects of this transition. I would say the hotel in Toronto is about the same scale as the sisters, but it's, you know, 14 stories as opposed to kind of, you know, four stories spread out. So I feel like it's, I find it a really interesting challenge to shift scales, and it is really a challenge like I think just because you can do a house you doesn't mean you can you can do a larger building and vice versa. There are different architects where they probably shouldn't do a house, but large scale is actually perfect for them. We actually like the challenge of that shift but then again it has to be the right thing in the right place so for the hotel, you know, we really wanted it to be an urban fabric building and, and for it for it to be about carved spaces. So, so I feel like it's a something that you know we love the challenge of these kind of different scales of, of inhabitation of the spaces to thinking about how they are experienced spatially. And, you know, it's not like we want to just only do one thing I think we enjoy the kind of variety. This question from the audience which maybe connects to this project from Samuel Baker. Thanks for your question. I was able to visit point William this past summer while back in Muskoka and was blown away by the consistency and architectural gestures and aesthetic across all the structures at this cottage property. How do you begin to approach a project of this scale with so many different buildings and elements, everything from a full scale cottage to Boathouse to even down to landscaping door handles. Was it difficult to go back to this project after 20 years and design more buildings on the same site. Did you have to alter your approach. It's a good question. That's a good question. And then very rarely do you actually get to work on the same. So I would say this kind of question of place making is a blip in the geological history like it's just puny. But for us the opportunity to kind of have a really early project like the Boathouse, and then come back to the site 10 years later, and to do a kind of vernacular building, and then to come back of five years later and to do these other pieces was really great. And it was the fact that we could have kind of like a resonance or an echoing. I would not say replicating but I would say this kind of, you know, this exploration of color, the role of lighting this kind of material transformation from an early building built right over the to a building on granite rock. And then the ability as I described to erase pieces and reveal and in through erasure revealing part of the landscape that was kind of already there. And so maybe that's maybe the more powerful act of anything to kind of remove to reveal is kind of a pretty amazing thing. And so by having the time to understand the site is when you have the opportunity to do something like that if you're in and out really fast and you're kind of like, you know I just think this maturation, just an interesting note is architecture I commissioned a photographer named Edward tinsky to photograph the boat house in 1999 and since then it's gone on to do amazing things and films, and our client commissioned him to photograph point William. So he came back 20 years later to the same site. And so some of those crazy drone shots or one or all ads shots taken, you know, sort of 20 years after he shot the boat house so you're seeing, you know, kind of two decade, a period, and he got all in film, like, you know, film, got everything else digitally and he kind of speaks about the kind of difference of, you know, photography and its technology in this 10 year time period, which is the project is a kind of measure of both your work and his. And I guess one could again invoke plastic and thinking about the success of you know, insertions within prod castle. Another different question as has depended from Ben Carr, has the pandemic changed the workflow in your studio or with construction administration in unexpected unexpectedly positive ways. I mean, I would say negative and positive so we have had construction lockdown so the hotel was actually supposed to be open two years ago. And you know they're working away you know every time you have a lockdown. The site loses all its trades they go on to do other things and you have to reassemble them so that those kinds of delays are really hard. I interpret the question to be specific to your practice of construction administration, you know, the present the press physical presence that I think your work needs. Yeah, yeah, so it's been so that's been tricky to not be on site. And so we actually haven't visited our project in Moscow for a while. We actually are planning to go in February but we're good luck with that. I don't know what's going to happen. No idea. It's been, it's been hard. The kind of you know like many firms, we've had to have people work at home and had to deal with all that stuff, which has been challenging and you know our cult, there's an office culture a studio culture that I think all of you know your work has as well Eric that's kind of really very intense and intimate and it's really you know I think people have done really well by working at home but it doesn't replicate being in the same space so I think that's really tricky. As we wait for potential other questions I just wanted to ask you about the fact that you're now working abroad where after having really worked for a very long time, only in Canada, maybe with the exception of Maine I guess. I understand not only Moscow but Hong Kong and Hawaii. You know, with for architects who are so connected to place how do you know that you're interpreting a Moscow forest. Or does it matter, you know, that you're interpreting it in a certain way. I think that the first few images was trying to kind of talk about doing work that is not in your own backyard, and what you need to do to think about these issues not only of you know place and the kind of you know tree species, but also methods of fabrication right, so we actually worked. Not only we worked with a pretty international team of fabricators a lot of them, you know, from Balzano from Germany, but we also work with a lot of Russian fabricators. We actually got to use Google translate a lot between Russian and English. And actually, you know, I think it's been really interesting that there's a whole, you know, a group of Russian fabricators that we did, you know, pedestrian bridges and undersides of soffits and all a lot of custom metal work that they had never done before. We would use full size mock ups they would build it we would approve it, they would do a patch, you know, and we would exchange shop drawings, and then Google translate and then ask a bunch of questions circle different things and you know we just had to work together with them using pretty similar tools than we would with a fabricator in North America. So the kind of is a time delay distance all that stuff but some pretty amazing amount of it and I think it really has helped to build a kind of culture of that a finer level stuff that didn't exist. You know it was really hard to find people to do stuff there. Maybe one last question Brigitte, maybe speak to the students. Are you optimistic about architecture. I think, so in a way one of the things I was really trying to show is, you know, we, you know, people in our studio use Rhino to do 3D shaping door handles and all kinds of custom things. We ship it off to safe shapeways. You know we get a little, little box back, we look at it. Back and forth back and forth. Like how amazing is that like we don't actually need to own all this fancy equipment. It's actually way better for us just to kind of, you know, go to those guys they can tell us how much does it cost in plastic how much is it cost in stainless steel, how much does it cost in bronze, and we can use it as a really great way of being so direct in actually making pieces that are prototypes. Sometimes we actually use it to kind of create a batch like a small run of things. So the, so we actually don't do computer renderings we don't use computers in that way in our studio but we do use it for all of this making stuff that is so great. As young architects, those are totally at your disposal so easy to do. And, you know, all the programs everyone in architecture every architecture school was so dexterous at. So what an, what a great time to be an architecture student, when you have all of this ability to kind of create things, and to see them physically fabricated, just like that. And really inexpensive like, you know, and I think of what it would cost for a craftsman to make any one of the things that we, you know, just push a button and 3d print out so there's clearly a lot of time and rhino doing all the programs shaping them refining them. For sure. But the actual making of it becomes a different thing. And we're always combining in effect the handmade with these kind of fabricated pieces it's never just about the slick fabrication. It's always about again I was playing in the very first project that's unfinished this kind of the handmade brick, and then the precision of the weathering steel elements so kind of precise, and the two together become the thing you're creating it's a bit like our interest in high and low and ready made versus kind of fabricated. That was my last question but you made me think that just to say one thing about your work that I guess is pretty consistent is the articulation and of pieces of elements, especially the frame in section, I would say, but you know the joint and unitize construction seems to be the kind of the dominant. Of course you use concrete and so on. But I think there's a counterbalance maybe with ambiguity that I think you're looking for between materials like weathering steel and wood, and where you know they kind of start to read together, especially in the point Williams house. But thanks so much for your note of confidence and ambiguity. I'm sorry and and an optimism that you shared with us today and your beautiful work. So thank you for just for coming to do that. Great. Thank you so much for the invitation and I look forward to coming back in person sometime when and doing reviews for you guys so thank you so much. Okay. Bye all. Thanks everyone. Take care.