 I've been in the public market since 1992 as a lawyer, investment banker, head of compliance, board member, and due diligence person. I have no one answer on how to raise money. For me, raising money is a process, not an event. And it's a process that takes months if not years to successfully raise capital for a project. We're in the back room talking to the people at Damasco about their next stage of financing, which I think is half a billion dollars to get the project into development. And the way you raise money for that project is fundamentally different from how I raise money to go explore a junior cobalt property. Everybody up on the panel has different experience in raising money at different times in different ways. Paul? I have none. When I first started as a writer and editor with Investor Intel, Tracy gave me one piece of advice. To successfully market anything, you have to market it for what it is. Now that makes my job easy because I see three aspects to any endeavor. There are the people moving it forward, the events they face along the way, and the ideas motivating all of it. So to market something successfully, all you have to do is see success at those three levels. When you show that, the company markets itself. My job's very easy. Thank you. Tracy? We're just saying how we are in this business or what we think we can do. I've been in this business since 2001. I moved from marketing music to marketing public equities. I was the co-owner and investment banking firm for seven years. And I've owned an IR firm for just about 15, 16 years now. And of course, Investor Intel on three dozen online investment blogs over the years. So at the front end of the pipeline are the junior explorers, Denny, myself. We raise money for it to go explore. We need companies to help us do that, and that would be you. That was a set up, by the way. You're supposed to just jump into it. I'm a partner in First Republic Capital, which would be a boutique investment bank out of Toronto. We focus on financing microcap companies, typically anywhere between $250,000 up to $10,000,000. I think in the last three and a half years, I think we've done about $67 million in financing and growing. And I think our niche is that we only stick with microcaps in very early stages. When a company begins to outgrow us, then we would literally hand off to other firms that are bigger than us that we partner with across the street, across the country. Now what is one key aspect that you look for when you're deciding whether or not to find out something? So there would be three key aspects. Number one would be management, because if you invest in a deal and every deal usually never goes the way you plan, we leave that up to management to make sure that they have plan B and plan C and plan D and plan E. And so management is absolutely critical. I think the trend is even more critical, ironically, for raising money for companies than the management, unfortunately, only because when an industry is trending, valuations are higher. I'll give you cannabis as the example right now that we're all going through. I think how many cannabis growers or potential cannabis growers that don't even have a license that are raising $10 and $20 and $25 and $30 million, trading at valuations that are absolutely astronomically ridiculous. And if you look at marijuana, which is a commodity, at the end of the day it's really almost the same thing as growing tomatoes. So there is going to be a run here, but eventually this is all going to come down to which companies are the cheapest and the most efficient and most effective to grow. Would you buy a tomato grower for a thousand times next year's revenue? So that would be a big question, but in terms of raising money, that trend in an industry is hugely helpful. That happened in mining as well, I think, between 2003 and 2007. And that happened again in 2009 to 2011, where valuations are in a lot of ways and that trend is going to be your best friend. I think the third aspect that we would look at is the structure, the equity structure of a company. So if we're selling debt, it's a different story, but if we're selling equity, then the structure is going to be the most important part of it. So I think where you have a lot of microcaps, only in microcaps, I'm not going to go like mid-caps or large-caps, but in the microcaps, I think where the challenge is or what we definitely look for is how are these deals structured. You get a lot of shell companies where you have people that get a ton of very inexpensive stock, and then within a month or two, they're selling stock for five times its value with no real fundamental changes happening within that company. So I think if we're going to buy into a company and there's too much we would consider cheap paper at the end of the day, then that would probably be a risk for us wanting to put our investors' money into the company. So I would say, yeah, it's three things. It's a trend, it's the share structure, and it's the management that we would look for in investing in the company. So with junior explorers, and we raise money a certain way, Nano-1 has had to raise money differently. If I understand correctly, you've done one financing. We have, and with us, we had the benefit of doing a very strategic financing early at our debut into the public markets two years ago, and obviously a very key component to a lot of financing is your warrant side, which you use your price above your IP or your first placement price. We had the luxury of putting that out, having enough capital, and raising enough money to get us through certain milestones that the market saw us achieve those milestones as we grew, so we gained confidence with our investor race. The big win-win for everybody is when you actually get to a price above your warrant and those warrants get into the money, which becomes another financing event for oneself without having to go back to the market. We actually managed to get all of our warrants exercised completely, which brought in an additional $3 million into the company. So if you plan it strategically and you hit your milestones and your goals, if you plan your financings correctly, they can almost self-finance themselves, and you don't have to go to the market every couple of months. You can plan it out properly. That money was strategically worked with government grants, so we did another kind of financing and helped ourselves complementing that. How much did you get from the government? Today we've gotten about $4.5 million in non-diluted financing, which is non-repayable. A grant? A grant. Okay. Yeah. And then finally, before we get into the real meat of it, the other end of the pipeline then is the stock exchanges. We have Rob from the CSC and Arlie from the TMX Group. We haven't had to raise any money lately, but we very much did when we launched our exchange back in 2003. So we've been there and done that, even though we're still a private company, but we did raise a fair bit of money from a lot of shareholders. And what's been happening in the past couple of years is that the regulators, the senior regulators have been introducing more exemptions to the prospectus requirements. So it's easier to do rights offerings. It's easier to do not even a rights offering, but a placement to existing shareholders. There are other exemptions, and this is beyond crowdfunding. And I would encourage people to look into that or these alternatives. There's even an alternative south of the border called Regulation 8 Plus that's only open to American and Canadian companies. One of the companies listed on the CSC is the first public company to make a Regulation 8 Plus filing. They're hoping to raise a few million dollars. Who is that? And it's called True Leaf Medicine. True Leaf does hemp and cannabis for pets, I believe. Right. So it's another innovation. And I guess the trend is their friend. Sorry, I'm tucked in the corner here. Yeah, hi. So I think all of my fellow panelists have made really great points. I think there are definitely key fundamentals in attracting investment and speaking to the street. So good management, delivering on your promises and your objectives. But at the end of the day, just in the mining sector alone in Canada, we have over 1,300 public mining companies. So there really is a lot of work that companies do have to put in in order to get their name out there and differentiate themselves from their peers. And that's why conferences such as this and things like what Tracy and her team does are very important. All that being said, I think we have a bigger challenge in industry and one that we all have to work on together is really more broadly engaging the public and retail investors in our industry. And I think maybe that even goes beyond just our industry, but in the public markets in general we see fewer and fewer young investors, young retail investors, particularly in the mining space. And that's something that TMX Group at Toronto Stock Exchange and TSX Venture Exchange, we're trying to look at new innovative ways to get your stories out there, get those stories out there to the streets to retail investors. And I think you'll be seeing a lot more of that from us, from a digital marketing perspective. But I think it's something, I don't have the solution here today, that we all need to think about how do we effectively get that information across to retail investors that don't necessarily have the technical knowledge that most of the people here in this room do. And many of these projects are often complex, but that being said, I think there is solutions that we need to come up with in order to help get that message across. Now, can you give us one of these innovative ideas that you've had? Yeah, so I think you'll be seeing a lot more in the works from us, but I mentioned yesterday in my presentation the TSX Venture 50 program, which we've had for a number of years. And traditionally it's been that we rate companies based on their liquidity, on their share price appreciation, and a couple of other metrics. But recently what we've done is we've transformed it to be more of a digital platform. Recently we used to place ads in the newspapers, hoping to attract retail investors. But now what we've done is we've had each of those companies come in and put together a short video that we are throughout the year pointing out through different means of social media and trying to target millennials, younger investors to be able to engage in that. As well, we've launched two apps that one of them is just called TSX Invest in It. And what that does is it shows you the current financings that are open. So the day after a financing is announced, whether it's a private placement or a prospectus offering, that financing is up on the app. So one, it gives you a good way to track what's going on in the market. I personally check it every morning just to see what types of companies are attracting financing. But also as a retail investor, it gives you an idea if there are open financings out there that you could participate in. As well, we have another app which shows you the companies that you can sort by project location in terms of commodity. So let's say you're looking for a cobalt project in a specific jurisdiction with a market capitalization in a certain range. The app will generate that list. So those are some of the initiatives that we're taking. And I think we're looking at a lot more and any of suggestions that any of you have, I would be happy to hear about it. No, this is a panel that I would like to jump in and say, what we've done is we've hired Paul Boxerman, and we're going to make him a host, Orly, so that we can have, you know, and Kelly Burr, the creative director, young millennials to represent the market. And I think we need to have some success stories. I mean, I know at Investor Intel, I don't publicize this because I'm not proud of it, but 96% of our audience are men. And we need to also expand to the retail audience and get young ladies. We need to have some dynamic stories, which we then use digital marketing to say, hey, you know, Paul, well, in university, he taught himself how to trade. And he's now worth, you know, 50 million. That's the kind of story that will expand interest. That's what I think. I would agree. And last week I was in London at a conference put on by the Northern Miner. There were a lot of, you know, the top names in Canadian mining there, and that was one of the major theme that Robert Freeland was speaking to is getting more millennials involved in our mining companies with a fresh perspective on how things are done and some amazing things that he's experienced. And there was a whole panel talking about that, and I know innovation is the big topic, it seems to be, these days in the sector. But I think engaging new fresh perspectives is really important and something that we don't see often up in the industry. And I think Tracy's right. There is definitely a typical demographic you see when you go, you know, not only at an investor intel event, but any sort of mining conference, investor conference. Exactly. And that's something that we see quite often, where it's a fairly shallow net that's cast. And it's odd to see when you have a goal of wanting to market something to everybody, you know, when you have something like Lithium, you have something like Cobalt, and you want to create a product that services the entire world to only have such a minority of people that are actively involved in that. Now, I just want to go down the line and get perspectives of what is being done or what can be done to widen that net to introduce more people into the world that they live in day-to-day. I've been very active in this small microcat market for many years, both as an investor and as a principal in mining technology on gas. There's been a big change in the last number of years, strategic, sorry, not strategic, excuse me, but a structural change in the market. The large financial institutions have pulled all our support for the microcat market since we know you can't, you can have a $100 million account at a big bank and your broker will have a hard time getting a private placement for a small cap company too. So that's created a real challenge. It's narrowed the market, for now I don't think it's permanent, but it's made it a real challenge for microcap companies. I agree with a lot of the things that have been said. The whole social media area is massive. I think if we learn how to utilize that property, we'll get more eyes on what these markets are doing. Anthony mentioned trends. We all know what trends are like when it's lousy, it's really lousy, but when it turns, if you're out there and you're really in the face of the market, actively in the face of the market, you will ride that trend, whether it's technology, again, oil and gas or mining. So it's a challenge. It's changed a lot and it's up to small companies, small cap to medium cap companies to work with that change. Thank you. Two Dennis's points of the things changing. One has to look at what the street looks like. The street's no longer what it used to be a few years ago. The street's a global street. Everybody takes their information a different way. You look at everybody in the room here, we all get information from companies and what news flow is coming, but we all receive it in different ways. Some will pick up the phone, some will prefer the email, some will prefer social media. Everybody has their own element. So I think the balance to that is there isn't one solution. It isn't social media. It's a balancing act that one company has to do is market across all the platforms. So if you want to broaden that street perspective and market to the whole street, you need to have several programs into effect. And have you found that there's any methods that have gone obsolete? Like I spent some time going door to door, knocking, selling, whatever. I've spent some time telemarketing as well. And I mean, they're tried in true methods. They've been around forever and they still work. Are there any examples of something that just no longer works? People are just wasting the time now if they're still in it? Well, it's about our allocation of your resources. How much time do you have and what is your audience? If you're a young tech company, you're going to be more appealing and more of your resources will go toward social media. If you're a tried and truly mining crowd, which is an over 50, 60 man crowd, they're a different man. They prefer to call and speak to people. So depending on your audience, you have to know your investor base whether it be institutional, whether it be retail and what are the demographics of those people? So I would definitely say each company would have to look at their own marketing budget and allocate the budget according to where they're going to get the most effect. They should know their own investors and just put the funds accordingly on that side. So if you are a tech company, I'd say heavily social media side. But on the other side, go for email campaigns or perhaps newsletter writers or people who have a broader voice. It's a great way to meet larger crowds. I think nothing's on the table, off the table. Anything that gets used. Correct. So again, I would agree. I think every probably company has different objectives and different investors that they're targeting. But I also think there are some interesting things being done in the industry just as a whole that focus more on educating the general public on what the uses of all the things that we take out of the ground are. So the Ontario Mining Association has a campaign that is entitled, if it's not yours, it's mine. And it's all about the different things that we use every day, our cell phones, our hockey pucks and what actually those things are made up of and that those do come from mining and it's changing that perception. And I think that helps get people engaged in the industry and understanding the importance of all of the hard work that's being done here and funding that hard work for medical purposes, for everyday recreation, for our jobs, for flying everything that we do. And I love this panel. I think it's fantastic. My answer, very good question by the way, I'm impressed and I didn't help them at all. For the first time in our lives, you have to market to three different generations simultaneously and as Paul mentioned, you have to have a certain, you know, a call out. You have to treat people with respect in a more sophisticated manner. We still have professionals out there that still use double the spaces after a period. So they want a well-written letter so you hire someone young and they write high and put smile faces, doesn't work. So that's how you have to handle the baby boomers with respect. You have to set up formal meetings. You have to send thank you letters, that works. Then with the Generation X, they like video content and content and well-written content still works. And then with the Millennials, they don't read any of the content. You have to have video and you have to have 45 seconds splash and they don't like sophisticated videos. So you know, what works today? Absolutely everything. So put it all together and have someone who manages that team and then if you're timing and you're meeting your benchmarks and then as I was mentioning in the opening, you know, and then I'm gonna stop talking. This is a great panel here. The number one thing I see that blows CEOs and managing directors' efforts to increase their stock is really simple, them. They talk down to people. They look annoyed when they're talking to the shareholder or potential shareholder. They look like their time is too important and you never know when there's a billionaire sitting at the table with you nowadays because some of these Millennials are wearing, I know a couple of billionaires in New York. They're in their 20s. I don't even recognize them. They're so sloppy. Orly, I wouldn't recognize, they come up to me. I never remember them. So the old rules don't apply anymore. You gotta be nice to everybody. You don't know when you're being filmed or recorded. It's a whole new game. I agree with most of that except I think you've always said to be nice to all the people. In terms of marketing to the different demographics out there, I like to look at it as kind of a layered approach where you have the sound diets, you have the 45-second videos. I wouldn't recommend tweets because it's really hard to get something out in 144 characters. But there always should be- That's untrue. Well, there always should be something to back that up so that people can dig deeper, so that you have to have the full package. So you can try the social media, you can do the videos, but you also need to have the stuff that's behind it because some of the people want to look at all the details. Some of the people want to be able to go to your website and drill down. Some people maybe more than three want to read a 43-101 report. So I think I'm more or less agreeing with what Tracy said and that is you should try a lot of different things. I mean, it's definitely a valid point without the substance. All you have is smoke and mirrors. I think to be effective in marketing, especially well, definitely in the microcap space, it's also on a matter of trust. So who's sending the message and what's their background? What are their qualifications? What have they done in the past? If you don't have trust in marketing your message, then I would say it's fairly ineffective where you're wasting your time or your money. So I think it's A, who's delivering the message and then which channel you're going through. And if you're gonna hire like a letter writer, you know, that just did five previous letters on companies that all completely went down in price, what's the reality that someone's actually gonna read that letter and take it seriously or be affected in terms of actually wanting to buy based on that letter. And I think that's reputational and it's trust and marketing comes down to, you know, making sure that the people and the message is the truth. And it's based on some backdrop that is foundationally strong. I just wanna take a moment to return to what Tracy said about professionalism and symbolism and one of the things that I've been feeling as someone in the new space is nowadays you don't know who has money. The guy with a mohawk covered in tattoos may be a tech billionaire and you just walk by an enormous investment. You never know. So the question I wanna ask is, is there too much value being placed on being formal, too much value on wanting to make the right appearance versus providing the substance, providing the trusted, the expertise and showing that you know what you're talking about rather than just looking good? Get all those together. I don't think you can cherry pick any of those. I think you gotta work with all of them. You've gotta be correct. You have to have substance. Your first message is your most important message and you can't get the type of detail in your first message that Rob's talking about, but you do have to have it there because people will dig down if they're interested. Your initial thing in all events is to get attention to what you're doing, how you do that, how you differentiate yourself, whether it's a management team, whether it's special assets, and once you get their attention, then you have to have the substance behind it. No, I once had a philosophy professor tell me if you ever wanna get published, you have to pick an extreme side. Nobody wants to hear the moderates. They wanna hear the extremes. They wanna hear the God is dead. They don't wanna hear, well, then maybe this and then maybe that. So, I mean, how does that tie into this? I mean, you wanna have the extremes, but you want it to be a valid extreme. Otherwise, who's listening? Well, that's true, but I mean, you can have, everyone's got the best gold property in the world in their company. So, is it location? Is it the management? Is it the grades? Is it the size? You pick what you have and you highlight what you have. As Anthony said, it's gotta be real and it has to be true. And then you do your best with what you have. You can't make it up. Well, people do, but that's not right. I beg to differ. I would definitely agree with that. I think it's a combination of everything. It's your ability to build a relationship with someone. It's your actual project, your actual company, the management behind it. I think all of that as a package is really important in order to get your message across. But I think what really comes across when I hear presentations or speak together is the passion that a CEO or any management or a board member of a company has. And that's something that you really feel that makes a difference. I think when someone is passionate about what they're doing and believes in it, I feel that it has a really big impact. I'm curious, Paul, because you said you beg to differ. So we were on the same page. What are we missing here? You're gonna have to do me a favor. Remind me on what it is I differ. Well, I can answer this question for him. I mean, Paul, what you need to do is you need to have a bigger team. And that's what's different today. That's what's changed in the last 10 years of doing IR in my experience. You can't just have one person. The teams that I think are the most effective and orally, I'm sure you're gonna agree with me, are the teams that have several different people. They have the really crazy passionate person. They have the very conservative old guy. Where's Fred Cowan's when I need him? You need a different wide spectrum of people. You need the Paul Boxterman's, the younger gentleman on your team to go in and you need to know your audience. You need to know if I'm going into New York City, I better have someone who's a type A who can talk quickly and push back or I'm gonna get eaten alive. I don't need the nice guy when I'm marking on Wall Street. I need a person with edge or I'm not gonna sell any stock. When I go to Montreal, that's a whole nother crowd. Are you higher insiders in different areas? Vancouver's a different market too. Dennis, what do you think? Oh, they're all different. I mean, every investor is different. Every investor has something they like and something they don't like. But you have to find your audience. That's the real trick right now. And your audience isn't sitting in brokerage firms, typically, some are. They're investors and you have to find the investors. If that's what you're doing, marketing your company. We're search minerals, okay? So there's a great example. Greg is in his own backyard. He's building up the family following. He's gotten the company now to the next level. He's got everyone in Newfoundland. All the families are probably doing kitchen parties. And then they all buy stock the next day. Like you said, you gotta know what you're doing. You gotta go close and you gotta be real, as Anthony commented. Yeah, when you wanna move up to the next level, I think what you really wanna do is look at a company that's already had you. Look at somebody that's gotten somewhere that you wanna be and try to figure out how they got there. Who's invested in their stock? Maybe they're potential investors in yours. So you not only have to know your own audience as it is today, your own investors, but you also have to look at your competitors and who have they attracted? Where did they get their success? And maybe those are some of the things that you should be doing as well. If I can make a comment on some of that. I think it's one thing that every company should keep in mind. And that is two Tracy opening remarks from yesterday that trust is the new currency and you're alluding to it too Anthony, that trust and confidence from the investors is earned. It shouldn't just be given to you because you've got a great resume and you've had success in the past, doesn't mean they're not investing in your past. They're investing in your future. So I think a company has to really be patient with its investors, be truthful and open and honest with them, but have the patience. They're investing in you moving forward. Keep the communication lines open. Earn that trust, earn that confidence over time with the different aspects. Keep the communications open. And with that, over time, if you hit your milestones, I think you will reap the rewards of that confidence that they gain in you. That's brilliant, Paul. And Steve Mikowski actually wrote about that. And he says it takes time to build trust, but once you're there, you're in the game. So in a Randy rifle of Chesapeake Gold, he sold two companies now for several hundred million. So he goes into his third company. Everyone's all in. He's built his trust. I mean, that's the thing is, trust is the thing that you need to build on every end. You need to build it on the production end in the boardroom with the corporate. You need to build it both downstream, midstream and upstream. You need to have it at every integral joint of the project. Otherwise, the whole thing is gonna collapse because if you can't trust any one point of it, well, the whole thing falls apart. Are we done? You're moderating this. You need to pay attention. The only comment is, is this something? Not only comment, as I've never seen Peter Clousy so quiet in a town on my life. If I could add one thing. I knew it would last good. Stay current on securities legislation. The regulators are in their own god awful way trying to help us. And they are eliminating some of the barriers that we face. Stay current on the regulation. The new crowdfunding rules in Ontario and most of Canada, horrible, don't bother taking advantage of them. But the new rights offering rules, very good. The existing shareholder exemption allows you to raise money from an existing shareholder up to $15,000 every year. Without a press release, file a form. It's all you have to do. It's the equivalent of a rights offering without having to trade the rights. No one as far as I know has done it yet. That's been an existence for a year and a half. So talk to your lawyer, talk to your advisors, talk to your broker, talk to investment bankers. Stay current on the changing legislation as well. Do we have any questions from the audience? Yes, Chris. It's interesting to hear these comments about the Canadian retail market. Because I've written quite often recently about the superannuation funds in Australia that have created a massive body of money. An agent maybe can give us some info on that. But I think it's in the order of $3 trillion. Something amazing. But what it does is if we went to it, they'd never been created. The Australian equities market would be exactly the same demographic profile as the Canadian market. Elderly people going off to their stockbrokers, they were dying out anyway, giving them an order, having a chat with them, and people in their 20s, 30s, even 40s, never having entered a stockbroker's office in their life. Now because of the obligation of Australians, all of them, to have these self-directed funds, or they can pass them over to someone else to manage them, but if they're self-directed, you can have people in their 20s and 30s with this reasonably sizable and growing case of money that they can spend in the equity market or in some other approved investment vehicle. I've thought more and more since the slump of 2011 began that Canada really needs to do something like this, not just to create a big pension pool, but to actually create an investment pool. Because I perceive that quite a lot of the, that a small amount of money that was available in Canada was just money that was going in very high rotation. They're going to a financing, then the financing would be flipped and they're going to another financing, and when it all came out in the wash, there wasn't really actually all that more capital at the end of the day than there had been at the start of the super cycle. And as we've seen now, there's been a fraction of, and there's been enormous value destruction. The strains pulled back from the market in 2011, but now they've come back and Australian companies for a like-on-like company and Australian gold company producing the same amount of ounces as a Canadian one, the Australian one has a valuation that's probably twice as high. Because there's sort of captive audience with a gun against its head and these people have to put the money in. And they're in the demographics that you want to get in. Anyone care to comment on that? Just to put a bit more flesh on that. Our superannuation rules, 9% of everybody's income goes into a super account. Most of it actually goes into managed funds. There is a big chunk, which you're talking about, which is self-managed super funds, so people can have those, but typically your younger population doesn't. I look more like an SMSF person than my children do. So, but it is really important because there is a lot of capital which is available and looking for a home and I think that is important. I think the other thing though, which is influence retail shareholding in Australia is that a number of very large government, you know, state owned enterprises were actually floated in the 90s and the 2000s. And so Commonwealth Bank of Australia, Qantas, Telstra, you know, these are all really big cap companies and they have a very large retail shareholding base. So I think those things do make a difference in Australia. Just generally speaking on this issue, you know, as I listened to all of this and I think I've told you before, I'm a marketer by trade. Just go and do marketing 101 guys. You know, I mean, this is just a different market with a different set of consumers and you are talking about a different set of propositions and a different set of channels to contact them. It's actually not all that difficult. It's just getting the right selling proposition for each of your target segments. I see a lot of that challenge is not necessarily the financials and marketing are difficult. I think for a lot of junior companies it comes down to resources to be able to market. So many companies don't have the time to be putting towards marketing where they want to be spending time focusing and moving forward their project. And so there's often that conflict of how do you allocate your time through it with a small team appropriately between getting the word out there, raising money, marketing, and as well moving forward with your business plan. You cannot get the check signed on the first call in most instances, right? So you actually will have had to have made, you know, once again, it's just like any good sales calls. You actually have to make the calls and you have to set up the proposition and then you go in for the close. It took me three years to get you, Amanda. I think a very big, another component to it is keeping your messaging clear. And so I see we've all heard it. Make sure a 10-year-old understands what your message is. We all in an industry, whatever it be whether you're in mining or whether you're being tech, you tend to get lost in your own. You forget that other people don't know what you've learned and you need to go through a little bit of an education process with your investors and be patient with that. Educate them along the way, especially the new millennials because they are coming in snippets of tweets and so on. They're not learning on that but it's a path to go somewhere to learn more. But the key is, is read a press release to a kid. Read the first paragraph to a 10-year-old kid and tell me, does he get the message? What's he hearing? You're hearing one thing, but what are they hearing? And if you can keep it very simple, I think that's how you differentiate yourself from the crowd. Your message will actually be understood. That's a very key component to marketing to people. And I think that's a great place to stop. Hey, no, it doesn't, it takes a genius to take a complex idea and phrase it in a simple way, not to take a simple idea and phrase it complexly.