 Hello and welcome to today's webcast, Effective Marketing to Women with Linda McGregor. Today is all about uncovering the different biological instances where we see in men and women and today we're joined by someone fabulous to walk us all through it. First of all, just a quick little insight into the platform that you're viewing on today. If you wish to ask a question, please use the ask a question feature which is in a tab on the bottom of your screen. We will be doing a live Q&A session towards the end and also a recording of this event will actually be sent out within the next 48 hours, so keep a look out for that. Without any further ado, I really want to get straight into this topic today, so I'd like to welcome Linda. How are you, Linda? I'm good. Thank you. Excellent. So, first of all, can we just give everyone out there in virtual land a bit of an overview about all about Eve and then also what they can expect to hear from today's session? Sure. So, today we're going to talk about the topic of effective marketing to women. We're going to get past what we call thinking pink to really understanding if there are differences between talking to men and talking to women and how that will actually translate when you actually put that into marketing principles and activities. Great. And is that what you do on a daily basis? That's pretty much what we do. We spend a lot of time deep in psychology, sociology, and so on, which we love and I'll share some of that today, hopefully, as we go through. Great. Now, when we sent out the invitation to everyone and then also looking on your website as well, it seems that your approach really taps into the fact that men and women are biologically different. So, can you explain it? Are we? And is there any proof? Well, I think for those that might have been a little bit worried that this was going to be a bit of a sexist rant, this isn't actually about are men and women equal. This is actually about our men and women biologically the same. And I think all of us would say a woman and a man look different. Yes. But there's really two things that we deal with as fundamentals, as all about Eve. First of all, how we make decisions. And that's the same whether we're men or whether we're women. What it's all about is the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. I'll talk about that a little bit more as we go on. But then also, it is very much getting into what are the biological differences between males and females. And again, from a marketing point of view, how does that affect how we take in information, how we make decisions and how ultimately then we buy and bond with brands. OK, so what is the insight into how we make decisions ultimately? OK, so bit of neurology, 101. When we make decisions in our mind, there's the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. Now, what's a bit shocking, I guess, to some of us as marketers is when we learn that in making decisions, the conscious mind makes only up to a maximum of 10 percent of the decision. So it may be the last 10 percent, but it can be as low as 2 percent. Now, when you think about all the stuff that we access and tend to use as insight information as marketers, it tends to be call work and also quant work, which is great, but it's only tapping that last 10 percent, the bit that we don't look at enough in our opinion. And we would say that all about Eve is the subconscious. So there sits all your beliefs, your attitudes, your value sets, all the subconscious, the unconscious behavior and activity that you have that is actually making up to 90, if not 95 percent of your actual decision for you before you've even really thought about it. Great, so that really plays into gender differences then? Absolutely, yes. So speaking of that, the fundamental four. Now, this is something I really want to get into. I really want to uncover the fundamental four and find out a little bit more about it. What's number one? Okay, there's four in total and the first one is values. And basically, they've done pretty much global research, couple of major scientific studies across the world, developed countries, undeveloped countries. And they looked at a number of things, but what we got involved in is all about Eve was what were the differences that were coming back from men versus women? And one of the very key areas was values and value sets. Now, as is always the case, lots of overlap. But what we were looking for is where there are distinct points of difference. And absolutely, there was. I'm going to say, and I'll say this to the audience, I tend to make things a bit black and white in a session like this because we're limited on time. So my apologies if I have any males or females going, that's not me. Yeah. We're talking about mass marketing. Okay, great. So when we actually look at value sets with women, lots are shared with men. But where it's different is women tend to be more about people in connections, more humanistic, if you want to call it that. And guys tend to be more about power and status. Now, even if you just look at those two things, you can see that they're quite distinctly different. So just to give an example, when you actually talk to both genders about, say, sociability, both find that equally important and they're equally involved in their lives. However, when you talk to men about sociability, it tends to actually be there that the differences come into play. So they'll talk about sociability much more in a work context. They'll talk much more about what we call hierarchy. So who do you know? Where do they work? What position do they have? And how do we potentially help each other get ahead? Now, when you talk to women about sociability, yes, there's a lot of that comes up. But what's different is women talk more about social what we call support. So yes, it's who I know, but actually it's more about who I know that actually has got my back, that I can trust, that will be honest with me and have my best interests at heart. So a bit different. Yeah, so how does that help us as marketers then? What should we be doing in that example or any other example that you've got? Well, I think if you just look at that as a basis, you kind of go, if guys are more about power and status, then the marketing values that your brand has needs to actually tap into that with a female audience. And this is the thing that I think quite often we miss as marketers or we don't play up to enough. If it's all about people and it's about the people around us being impactful on how we act, how we think, how we make decisions, then as brands, we need to be cognizant of that, that people and being seen to be human and authentic is actually really important to allowing your brand to connect with the female audience. Great. And just another question on that. You mentioned at the beginning that females are much more about that human element that touches sort of fairly thing. How does that work in today's environment where we're all online, it's virtual, social media? Has that impacted many brands or anything like that? Look, the interesting thing about most of this stuff and why we call it the fundamental for is no matter what generation you look at, so whether we're looking at Gen Ys or baby boomers, whatever, the fundamentals don't change in terms of how we connect, in terms of what affects us. How that might play itself out in terms of activity, for instance, especially online and digitally, is quite different. So quick example, empathy far more important to women. I had a recent thing where, great, my laptop breaks down. We're a small company, we don't have a tech support team on site, so I had to go and get someone to fix the computer frame. Now, I do this stuff as a living. I know how to talk to men, talk to women. But I go in and I say to the guy, here's my laptop, not working. Now, I know at that point I should actually stop talking. Instead, I then carry on and fill in the gaps for him, give him some context. So I've had it for about four or five years. I tend to be pretty careful. I've got support in terms of virus check, all that sort of stuff. He sits there kind of looking a bit glazed at me. I then managed to stop myself and I expect then him to demonstrate empathy back. I've understood what you've said, that's important. I'll keep that in mind. Instead he says, great, that'll be 50 bucks. I'll do a diagnostic for you. I'll tell you then with the phone call what's wrong with it and we'll fix it. Great, thanks. Left the store. Now, I walked away, whether he'd actually demonstrated it or not, from his point of view, I walked away going, I just don't know, I trust that guy with my laptop. And that was nothing to do with his technical skills and everything to do with his interpersonal skills with me. Well, it makes sense. How are you supposed to know how technically savvy he is? It's just his communication with you. And yet a bloke would go, I've come here because he's tech savvy. It doesn't matter whether you can talk to me or not. Now that you've mentioned that, I can actually think of a few situations as well. So obviously it's all about the customer experience for females as well, which does play into marketing. So it really does involve the entire organization on different levels. Okay, so speaking of communication, I believe that is the second point. Great segue. That was totally unscripted. When we talk about communication, is it just the way we talk? Look, it's far broader than that, but it's easiest to demonstrate it. Talking about talking. Yes. So classic, and I think this was an email joke that was going around two, three years ago. In a standard day, guys will use about 8,000 words. Women will use about 20,000 words. Now, is that the chicks just like to talk a bit? Or is there something else going on? And the scientists will tell you there's something else going on. When guys talk to each other, it tends to be largely information exchange. So fairly short and to the point. When women have a conversation, we're not only exchanging information, we're actually also doing what they call twin tracking. And at the same time, we're either establishing or breaking bonds. So it's not just what you say, it's how you say it and what your non-verbal is actually saying to you at the same time. Okay, so if I'm having a conversation with someone else, it's about the other things that are happening in the background. Well, let me give you an example. If we weren't in this formal situation, you might have said to me, oh, I love your necklace. Now, it's almost impossible for a woman to make a comment to another woman like that without that woman then actually saying, oh, thank you. And then actually saying, actually it was a present for my 40th. Now, by doing that, you're actually starting, we don't know each other very well. You're starting to establish a bond. And what it's really about is commonality. So I like something that you're wearing. I like it too, because I have it. Probably there's other things where we actually like and therefore can trust each other. So you're looking for that ability to establish and connect with her and show that you have commonality. Very important for brands to be able to do that with her. Yeah, and that's why we're known for talking too much. Well, we're just doing a lot more. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I can see a lot of women doing that. And I've been in situations, whether it's in the work environment or at networking events or something. And I think that's a great icebreaker for women. Even if you feel like you don't have something in common with another woman or something and you go up to her and you give her a compliment and you're right, it does sort of start this two-way connection. So if I'm a marketer, how can I tap into that? What can I do to make it work? I think it's a case of, it really comes down to insights. Do you really understand your target audience of females as opposed to using stereotypes? So what is it that's important to her and how can you actually do what we call surprise and delight her? How can you actually offer her something or communicate to her in a way that she goes, oh, I hadn't even thought about that. Actually, that's a really nice touch. That's very similar to doing that twin tracking and starting to establish the bond. So don't just give me a sell. Don't just give me the information. Rather give me something that you think is of interest to me and of use to me, going back to values. So it's more about you're my support network as opposed to you're actually trying to sell me something. Okay, great. Are there any companies out there that do this really well? Look, there's a number of them that do it well. The one that everyone would know about which actually covers both values and communication is obviously Dove. And we have actually got some stuff in your library for people to have a look at just to actually show a reference there. There's another one that's actually just popped into mind which I might add to your library afterwards. A local Australian company, SPC, who do canned fruits, who've actually just put a program into supermarkets recently. Where they've actually changed the labels on cans to actually reflect the producers that actually produce their product and done some digital and YouTube work with it. And really nice in terms of saying we understand as consumers and as shoppers you're not just interested in buying the product but you wanna know a bit about how it's produced and who's behind it. So it really starts to tap into that quite well. Yeah. So there's a couple of examples. Yeah, so we've got some examples in the resource library which is located at the bottom of your screen. So feel free to take a look at those towards the end but we'll also be sending links out to those examples, the videos exactly which will come out with the recording within 48 hours. Okay, so communication. Yes. We get that now. Now decision-making and thinking and we've spoken about this in the past and this is one of Linda's favorite ones. So this is fundamental number three. So explain. So thinking and decision-making. Probably my favorite because it's the one that's least seen. Cause it's all going on inside your head but actually has the most impact on what we do. You know, when we for instance say, I just, it just feels wrong in my gut. It's actually not in your gut. It's actually in your brain. And it's having an effect on your gut. It just sounds so much better. You sound much more intuitive when you say that. Don't you rather than say it's in my head. And that's a very female comment. It sounds more intuitive. So basic brain facts. It won't be a big biology lesson, I promise. Male brains and female brains are actually fundamentally different in terms of structure. Male brains are 10% larger. Sorry boys, doesn't mean you're 10% smarter. A female brain's just more concentrated. So they are the same. But where they're different is your basic biology of two hemispheres. One's more about rationality. One's more about emotionality, creativity. The thing that's fundamentally different between the two gender brains is actually the membrane between them. It's up to 40% thicker with a female brain. So what that means is a female brain has much more ability to actually cross-reference and use both sides of her brain when she's actually making decisions. Okay. Now from a marketing point of view, that's really important because what it means is in campaigns, you really need to think about are you covering facts, rationality, at the same time as actually covering emotionality opinions. You don't have to do both necessarily in one piece of marketing material, but across your campaign, the best way to help her through your decision-making is actually a balance of both. Whereas you don't have that need the same way with guys. So the psychologists and the neurologists will call it step thinking for males. Males tend to get rid of a lot of information to make it simpler to get from A to B quickly. Whereas in a female brain, we tend to do what they call joining the dots or web thinking. So it's give me a bunch of information. Good. That's actually not enough. I want to do due diligence and feel like I've really looked around and taken enough information on board. And then I'll actually look at making a decision. Okay. So impacts for marketers would be things like, in general, it will take women longer to make a decision if they haven't made it before, especially if they believe it's a very important decision, especially if it impacts those around them in terms of people. It also means in terms of steps that she goes through, it's much more easy for females to get locked into stage two of research and never quite make it to take action because she feels she hasn't done enough due diligence. Classic example on that would be women in super. Yep. You know, we keep thinking, I know this is really important, I need to get it organized, but I don't know enough to choose the right financial advisor or to choose the right policy. So as a result, we put off, we do nothing and therefore nothing actually happens. So I'm interested to hear your thoughts then on, you know, recently there's a lot of talk about nurturing people through the buy and cycle and the fact that the buy and cycle is changing, it's becoming longer and people aren't just going to be ready to buy one that wants to say, look at your website now. So even ourselves as an organization, we use the nurturing process throughout. Is that something that would appeal more to women? And if we are using that as a marketing tool, should we be including steps that are appealing to these four fundamentals? Look, I think whether you're marketing to men or women, there needs to be a sense of understanding how to support and move them through the decision-making. Nurturing, to all intents and purposes. I think the difference is to some extent, probably the demands of what qualifies as nurturing with women are probably higher back to what you mentioned earlier in terms of customer service. Women expect more of themselves, expect to give more, but as a result, they expect to get more. So therefore the nurturing with them tends to actually have, if you want to call it that, a higher standard and may take longer than I actually would with men. If you therefore think that through, then you'll do things differently. Again, a quick example, automotive. You get a situation where the male brain and the female brain, given the same information, will end up at a different stage in the decision-making process when they go into the showroom. He's ready to buy a car. She's still in research mode and actually wants to touch, feel, sit in the car, take a test drive, all that sort of thing. Interesting worrying statistic on that is on average 79% of guys who go to a showroom are offered test drives. 41% of women are offered test drives. And what's actually happening there, which is a sales and a marketing issue, is the sales guy is not picking up the cues I'm ready to buy from her because she's not. And therefore he's going, she's not interested and therefore wrongly diagnosing where she's at. In fact, if anything, she needs the test drive more than he does to move her to the take action stage. Okay, just on this decision-making, we had someone ask a pre-question before the event. And it's more around people within the B2B space because I personally can see how this would really, really work and play into people if you're selling B2C. But in B2B, where you're not necessarily targeting people based on their gender, is there any research to show that this works in this space? Well, I don't know who came up with that question, but that's a nice tricky one for me. Look, there's always research out there. This sort of stuff's been researched all the time, which is why, as well as call and quant, we get involved in all the scientific work. But I think the bottom line is this. We often think of companies as organizations as a thing. And actually, they're made up of people. So fundamentally, you're still marketing to men or women. Now, there's ways to do, and I hate the term, but I'll use it, gender-neutral marketing. I think there's a smart way to do it, which is to say we're not sure whether we're talking to men or women, and therefore we'll follow a ground which allows us to do the right things with guys, short to the bullet points, but at the same time do the right thing by women, give them the options to get more information. So I think even B2B, that's the sort of thing you could be thinking about. How do you make sure you give people the short version, but give them access to the longer information in more detail? If they want it, yeah, because surely some genders would overlap. Oh, look, absolutely, great little fact. 10% of women have a more male-wide brain, and 15% of males have a more female-wide brain. Wow. And before anyone asks, nothing to do with sexual orientation whatsoever. Very interesting. Speaking of asking questions, if you do have any questions, please send them through the chat feature. We'll get to those shortly. But just on what we're talking about, about thinking and decision-making, I believe you've got some information about OPSM. Ah, yes. So this sounds really interesting, so I can't wait. Look, really simple one. We talked earlier about, are there examples of brands doing it really well? And OPSM basically put out a product, they called Penny the Pirate, which quite simply was a storybook that parents could read at bedtimes to their kids. But it involved the kids, because the story was about a pirate, actually putting on an eye patch. Now, in reality, as they're actually reading the story with their parents, what in fact this really clever little book's doing is actually doing an eyesight test on them. So if you actually think that through and look at parents, mothers in particular, who go, I don't have the time or maybe the inclination to go into store for an eye test, I'm not sure if that might be traumatic for my child, so therefore, again, not really inclined to do that. This is a really easy way for them to check and at least get a top-line sense of if there's any issues there and therefore give them a better reason to actually do something about it. Very interesting. And that example is also in the resources poll as well. It is, it is. For anyone looking. Okay, so now I'm starting to see the difference as to what we spoke about at the beginning. Is it about getting insight? Or is it, what's it all about? What can we do moving forward? Look, insight is key. If you don't start by really understanding your female audience or your male audience, then you've actually not got enough to work with. What ends up happening is you end up working with stereotypes. And if you speak to psychologists, they'll basically say to you, stereotypes are useful, but they're cognitive shortcuts. So what they do is they allow us to deal with the world and do things quicker and deal with the amount of information we've got. Great, but as marketers, you actually don't want to be generalistic. You actually want to be detailed and absolutely on the money. So insights will get you away from poor stereotypes into very good understanding. So insights are great, but you can have great insights and totally screw up what you're doing. So it's what we call actionable intelligence. What you do with your insights is equally as important. An old kind of sailing adage is, if you're sailing along and you're one degree kind of off your course, that's fine if you're sailing say five kilometers, but if you're sailing 200 kilometers, that one degree takes you further and further and further away from your course. Our view is it's exactly the same with marketing. You can get your insights, develop a strategy, but then how you execute it in terms of how your marketing campaign looks, how your materials are actually done, how they're communicated, all of that needs to stick to the strategy in its execution. Okay, interesting. We have a question from Sandra here. So Sandra's just started with a new organization and they currently don't segment based on gender. Hello Sandra. So if you do come into an organization and you don't have those demographics to work with, how do you do that? Do you just send an email out saying, tell us what your gender is? What's the best way to do that? Do you have to go through one by one and filter? Do you think, I think what Sandra's trying to say is, do you think that people, if they knew that you were marketing to them based on gender would be offended? And how do you do it? Yeah. Okay, let me pick the, would they be offended question first? Because that's one that comes up a lot. I think it's only offensive if you're patronizing to them. If someone says, could I ask you a few questions about yourself so I can give you better service? Very few people are gonna go, no, get lost. I don't want better service. I think the problem though with profiling people, especially from a gender point of view, has come about because of what we just talked about, bad stereotyping. Yes. And there's an interesting thing there. We talk about overt versus covert marketing. Okay. A lot of what we classify as don't think pink or thinking pink is covert marketing. So it basically comes across by saying, hey, you're a chick. You've got boobs. I know all about you therefore. Oh, and you're a mom. Oh, well, I know it's all about your kids. And that's kind of where it stops. And she of course goes, well, I'm a bit more than just a mom. And so therefore you get the barrier goes up. With covert marketing, you basically say, I'm gonna market to you, first of all, as a consumer, someone I want to sell something to, someone I want to build a relationship with. And I'm gonna do things that will appeal to you, say as a woman, without shouting, you're a woman. Yeah. And I think that's the sort of thing that you then get a customer or a consumer reaction to where she goes, you know what? I don't know what it is that they do, but God, they just get me. They just get it. And that's really what profiling is all about, especially from a gender point of view. And you know, given, and we touched on the fundamental four, given that that actually looks to understand basic differences in order to provide better connection, better communication, then it really is ultimately about saying, we want to give you a better fit to what your needs are. Okay, great. And also a question from Sanjay. So as women do more research, doesn't mean that women can be converted into loyal customers? Good question. Long answer, so I'll make it a shorter one. So women tend to do more research because of the way that their brain actually functions. So she needs to feel she's actually gone through and done, as I said, due diligence. Classic examples, statistics will tell you if a guy goes out to buy a pair of black jeans, it will take him about 15 to 20 minutes. I don't know if you wanna guess, it takes a woman two and a half hours on average. Now statistically that's very significant, that's very different. And what that's about is what we call perfect answer. So guys will tend to go out, maybe look for say five things in a pair of jeans, but when they actually start looking subconsciously, probably two or three of these five things will drop off the radar. And they'll go, actually, I'm really happy that they're a good price, good brand, I'm done, I'm outta here on to the next task. Women will tend to go in maybe with the same five things, have a look around and the way our brains work means that we do more research to feel that we've done the right diligence. So we'll probably get from five things to seven things subconsciously that we need from a brand or from a product, which means we therefore go around more stores, we do more research and so on. So women tend to take longer in their research for that reason. Now, to your question about does that make them more loyal? The answer to that is it depends. So if she's got say five things that you give her with a pair of jeans, or that she wants from a pair of jeans and you deliver all five, she's gonna love you forever. Because you've given her the perfect answer, she's done due diligence, you are the perfect fit. The problem most of the time is most brands don't deliver all five, they deliver on four. Therefore you're the best perfect answer at this point in time. Then along comes a new pair of jeans and all of a sudden they deliver five out of five when you're actually just delivering four out of five. And therefore the loyalty's lost. So the short version of the answer is she will be really loyal if you give her everything she's looking for. If you're not, and that's where research and understanding her comes into play, if you're not delivering on everything to give her a perfect answer, less likely to be loyal. Okay, definitely makes sense. I can relate to that at least. And look, we see it all the time in FMCG, grocery shopping. So it's very easy for her to switch out of one brand into another one. There's very little kind of cost to it and the previous brand's probably already been consumed. It's more difficult as the price goes up because the reality is that product probably lasts. So even a pair of jeans, she's probably not likely to be seen as disloyal until she's ready for another pair of jeans and then she might start looking at other brands. Do women, is there any differences between women who are single, women who have children, women who are married? Does any of this influence a decision-making whatsoever? Look, without any doubt whatsoever. In the same way as you can't lump all mums together, you can't lump all women together. I think though, what we try and do in order to help our clients is say, let's actually go through the levels. So the fundamental four affect all women. How it then actually plays out in terms of behavior though, that can actually change. So when you actually talk to, for instance, by behavioral psychologists and sociologists, they will talk about the whole balance between nature versus nurture. So our fundamental four looks at nature. So what's there in our biology that makes us want to do things. Then you actually start putting nurture. So are you a single woman? Are you a career woman? Are you married with kids? That then actually becomes nurture insofar as the environment in which she's operating. And that actually impacts what her priorities are. Which interestingly is what we call fundamental four, which is managing her world. How those priorities actually changes and shapes what's actually important to her. And just to reply to Anna's question, thinking and decision-making are separate fundamentals? No, they're one and the same. So there's a three. So there's four. Number one is values. Number two is communication. Number three is thinking and decision-making. And number four, which I just snuck in there for you, is managing her world. Managing her world. So let's talk a little bit more about that. It's as simple as this. Whether we're men or women, we have priorities and activities to juggle in our lives. We're all busy. I laugh quite often when I see marketing briefs come in that an insight is women are time-poor. That's not an insight. That's a reality of her life. What is an insight is why she's time-poor and why she believes she's more time-poor, for instance, than a man might be. And that's down to a couple of things. If you think about what we talked about with Perfect Answer, she actually wants more and does more research before she actually makes a decision. And she wants to make a perfect decision rather than just a good decision. So therefore, that takes up more time. Add to that, women tend to be the social organizers in the human race. So we tend to, because of values, pool families together, remember birthdays, all that sort of stuff. Just put these factors together and you can see why women are busier and therefore more time-poor than men are. But the interesting thing about it, which we often forget about, is it's actually, albeit subconscious, a choice that we make as women. And therefore, telling women as an insight, I know you're time-poor. It's like, yeah, hook her off. I know I'm time-poor. Tell me what you can do to help me about it. And that's really what Fundamental Four is all about. How does she manage her world? How does she juggle things? And what are the challenges that you can make to yourself as a brand to say, I can actually help her shortcut, some of, for instance, her decision-making by giving her information on people like herself. And the likes of Amazon does this really well. So if you bought this book, then you might also like this, this, this. And they're very much doing what we call people-like-me profiling. So other people like you that have a similar reading profile have also liked this. And it's good old-world words of mouth with women. You know, I've just read this book, it's fantastic. Oh, you like that? I read it too. And the book that I've read after that was XYZ. Gotta get it, it's fantastic. That's actually about how women help each other and manage how to juggle their worlds and make decisions faster and easier. So I'll say then as marketers, it's all about letting women know that you understand their struggles, what they're thinking, how they make these decisions and not necessarily telling them, like you said, so an email saying, I know what you're going through, but more about providing them solutions and customer experiences that ultimately leads to that word of mouth marketing down the track. I mean, look, if I want to wipe the smile off your face in two seconds, I will go, I know what you want. And you're like, you don't know me, how the hell can you know me? It's that instant reaction. So, and that's actually something where if you say that to a guy, he'll go, okay, prove it. Whereas a woman will go, no, you don't. And the hands sort of say all the barriers go up. The last thing you want as marketers is barriers up. You want barriers down. You don't know me, that thing. I can't really do it that well, I know. I think there's a song in so long. Okay, so please type the rest of your questions if you have any because we're about to sum up. And also please complete the survey which is located in the bottom tab as well. And also in there, you can opt in to receive Linda's newsletter which comes every fortnight, every second Thursday, I believe. Indeed. Full of insights and tips. Can we try? Yeah. So let's sum up. We're getting to the end now. Let's, if I'm out there and I'm listening today, what are some takeaways? What would you like me to walk away with? Well, hopefully in chatting this through, we've got you to think about less thinking pink and stereotypes and more about genuinely looking for insights to understand your target audience as females. We've got you to think that if I've got qual and quant research, that's great. And it gives me the 10% of conscious decision making. But what have I got around psychology, sociology, neurology to actually help me with that. And the fundamental four that we've flicked you through today will actually help you even if you just use those four things as a checklist, that will give you the right sorts of questions and leads to actually be asking yourself. So there's first and foremost, ask the right questions, get the right insights, both subconscious as well as conscious. Then we do a process all about Eve called biology, which is B-U-Y-O ology. Oh, biology. As opposed to bio ology. See what you did there. We try and be a little bit too smart sometimes. So biology is all about saying, how do we make sure then that understanding the consumer as a female, we therefore know what her needs are, what her drivers are. And as a brand, we understand what the brand offers. And then we actually look at how the two of them fit. Okay. And the question you have to ask yourself as marketers, and it's basically marketing 101, but exaggerated for women. Do I have a force fit where I'm trying to make the shoe fit on our foot, even if it doesn't fit? Or is it a perfect fit where you put the shoe on our foot and she goes, that shoe was so made for me. I love it. So that's really a big thing. Think about what we call biology. Have you understood what the consumer needs are? Have you understood what your brand offer is? And have you made sure that the bridge that you're creating through communication materials is actually making a perfect fit between the two? If for one second the answer isn't yes, you need to actually do a rethink, probably of your brand offer, and whether you're actually targeting the right audience. Okay, great. And obviously every organization's going to be different, different products, different values, different everything, and we could sit here and talk all day about this, but I know you've got something to do. Well, as you can tell, I can. So how can people find out more? Where can they go? What's your site offer? Well, look, you can jump on, quick plug, the All About Eve site, which is all about eve.com.au. And there's a whole load of stuff which really kind of adds to and expands what we've talked about today. There's a whole load of tools on the site there, things like two years worth of our newsletter, which actually picks up a whole load of different topics from great examples of marketing to women through to pieces of psychology and how to apply them. So you can actually go into that as a whole backdrop. Or in fact, you can either through the survey, but I believe you guys are gonna do, you can tick the right box and get onto the All About Eve EDM, which goes on newsletter, which goes out for now. Excellent. Well, that brings us to the end. So thank you so much, Linda. It's been amazing speaking with you. I've learned a lot, so I hope everyone out there has too. Thank you everyone for joining and for giving up some time on your Tuesday. And we hope to see you at future Business Skills events. Thanks a lot and enjoy the rest of your day.