 Good evening everyone. I'm going to call the shabuagan common council committee of the whole meeting of Thursday, August 25th 2011 to order All of them all of them. Cough is going to be taking the minutes for us tonight Orin here Carlson here Decker here Hammond here Hammond here item in here top here kiddleson excuse Maddachuk here Rindflash here Riesler here Samson here an Akron here Excuse Let's all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, please To the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Next thing we have on the agenda is number four approval of the minutes from 810 I don't believe those minutes have been published yet, so we will hold off on those until the next meeting Number five on the agenda. We have a public forum on the agenda with a limit of three Three minutes per person Before we get started with that I just wanted to mention that I got a call Shortly before I left from citizen dimple Adams who wanted to speak here tonight on on behalf of Mayor Ryan, but she was not feeling well and was unable to attend Dimple wanted me to let the council know that she late this afternoon sent out an email to all the council members and she would like you to Read it at your convenience and I Hope dimple gets well soon so she can come back and see us Next we'll do the public forum Can I just show it? Hey see a show of hands of who it wishes to speak tonight? We'll start up here with the gentleman on the bench and we'll work our way back to the back of the room Sir you want to step forward please For the record if you could give us your name and address Name is Job Jose 222 Prospect Avenue Sheboygan, Wisconsin 53081 You will have three minutes. Okay. I would like to speak on behalf of the mayor and against the Process that you're hoping to begin against him vigilante politics the hijacking of Sheboygan electors in 1776 55 men risked the gallows When they signed a document insisting that the citizens deserve to be represented and governed by people of their choosing at the federal government level The citizens of every state elect their representatives and senators and we also cast our votes for the US presidency This structure is mirrored here in Sheboygan Where we elect our alder persons and our mayor? It seems however that most of our aldermen have become a risk to cats and now are engaging in vigilante politics We're in they hope to nullify the will of the people of Sheboygan By wrestling the mayor's position away from the voters When I cast my vote for Bob Ryan in April of 2009 I Expected my vote would last until the next mayoral election Whether that was to be a regular election scheduled four years later or by a special recall election But it seems that you vigilante the alderman Want to deprive me of my rights as an elector by nullifying my vote Instead of the mayor serving by the will of the people You vigilante alder persons want to usurp the power of the people and to self-invest yourselves with greater governmental authority I Wonder if others might not join me in class action litigation against you to punish you for violating our rights as electors I Think you fear a recall election You vigilante alderman fear that Bob Ryan would be reelected Mayor Ryan's behavior has been less than exemplary But I'm afraid not even I'm not even sure if it rises to the level of recall election. I Wonder who among you is without sin that you should be casting stones Personally I feel that I am commanded to reprove a brother when he sins that is to judge his behavior against moral standards and To admonish him if he errs But I am also commanded not to condemn my brother nor to mistreat him because of his sins. I Wonder if you vigilante the alder persons think you may you have become now as gods and that That is your source of courage by which you believe that your vigilante politics is justified If the court side with mayor Ryan and the citizens of Sheboygan Then you and your city attorney may be responsible for costing the taxpayers quite a bit of money Mayor Ryan may even be able to come against you in federal court Using chapter 28 section 1983 of the United States code and make you alder persons pay personal damages for your misconduct towards him Thank you and the council for the time Thank you, mr. Jose next For the record, could I have your name and address please? My name is Patrick Gillette My address is 915 North Avenue City of Sheboygan You will have three minutes mr. Chairman members of this committee. You voted 14 to to ask the mayor to resign What it you voted 12 to to proceed with removing the mayor from office This council asked for citizens to come forward with valid complaints Some of you thought that would be an impossible mission citizens came forward valid complaints have been filed and Citizens have done their job now. It's time you guys did yours This committee this council started a legal procedure The US code chapter 28 has nothing to do with it Wisconsin statues clearly spell out your rights as alderman your responsibles and the oath that you took Then at the last council meeting most you got wet feet Almost killed the funding for this program finally approved at 96 not by majority You wanted to turn tail and run based on supposition false information and ignorance The first complaint I brought you will stand on its merits The second complaint I brought was based on the felonious actions of the mayor on August 15 2011 You started the procedure you've got the information you need You started this official proceeding you have the responsibility to see it through Someone's counting on the fact that enough people will expose themselves on a recall petition The council already turned cold the councils tried icing those people who did expose themselves to think that 4120 other people will turn out is pure naivete Thank you Thank You mr. Gillette next for the record. Could I have your name and address sir? Yes, it's milk in our storm. I live at 1736 Marvin court Cheboygan Thank you. You'll have three minutes Where to begin I've been hearing some negative reports about this council and they're not doing their job But I'm not here to Casterize you people although I could do that. I am afraid that when I get to showing on television and WTMJ and Watertown, Wisconsin and my identical or my Cousin calls to me and now my identical brother was here today And if you want to have an identical you go with that so the waste time here what I'm going to read is in Editorial letter if I've confined it It appeared in the Cheboygan press and this lady has been castorized by your council members Former and our former mayor and she's having a hard time I've adopted her as my daughter that I never had and she writes you want to sit in some Judgment seat sit in the judgment of people behind the creation of this mess not the mayor All you gossip mongers Perhaps it's time. You see your faces splashed across half of the front page of the Cheboygan press for all Seven or eight days running with lots of immoral judgment calls and revolting anonymous gossip Give your give you a taste of your own desperate behavior after all fair is fair I've been very blessed in my life. I guess it's the Holy Spirit. I just happened to pick this up today It moves Mac calm and it says lessons my father taught me and it's by Michael Raiden Now I would change this as the lessons my son taught me So I'm going to read the letter that I or the statement I made at his funeral December 15 2001 and I called it some reflections of a father Gene and I were so blessed that God gave us a son Who taught us some different ways to look at life and how to serve others? Jeff displayed a generous love similar similar to his mother He certainly patterned his lifestyle with the wit and humor of his father Jeff's love his friendliness his handshake Worn many a soul it was his desire that others love him as he tried to show that same love to them His silly grin was just to let you know the joy in his heart Jeff had a big physical heart that may have done him in but his spiritual heart was so enormous Oh the pain and the sadness when he was called so quickly to have Jeff's trust in Jesus can be expressed in the song Trust and obey for there's no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey Hey Jeff trusted And he had a faith May not always have been obedient, but then who are we to question when sometimes we are even less disobedient Jesus has called him for a greater work above with Okay, I'm sorry To me this is very important. Thank you. Mr. Storm. Does anybody else wish to be heard? Does anybody else wish to be heard and? For the third time does anybody else wish to be heard? Thank you to all of you spoke at the public forum tonight next on the agenda is the chairman's comments. I don't have any the next thing on the agenda is Items for discussion and possible recommendation to the Common Council item number seven an Update to the committee of the whole from council president Alderman Eric Rindfleisch Council vice president Alderman Jeremy Decker and Committee of the whole chairman Alderman Jim Boran on the interviews that were held on August 23rd 2011 of perspective attorneys for the special prosecutor for the possible quasi judicial hearing To remove Bob Mayor Robert Ryan from office an update may also be given on an attorney To represent the Common Council in the possible quasi judicial hearing to remove Mayor Robert Ryan from office I will Turn the discussion over to president Eric Rindfleisch Thank you Alderman borne As asked by this council this body We did interview attorneys And we're directed to report back to this body of our findings That evening we did interview a total of two We extended invitations out to more but due to various circumstances Only a two were interviewed First was Attorney Booker From Dullfield And the second one was the law firm of Michael best and Friedrich To specifically attorney Steve Buscupic Both are obviously highly skilled both of them carry Some I guess bigger names, but I think the name comes with experience in this field Which is what quite frankly we were looking for the outline of the duties that Really both agreed upon Are the duties as a numerator in Wisconsin statute 1716 The first each one would review the verified complaints Each one would then conduct an investigation of the facts Each one would then prepare if justified based on the investigation would then prepare a verified petition to be presented Both will serve as Council during the Common Council hearing To do the following present witness testimony and other factual materials Cross-examine opposing witnesses Prepare legal briefs and present arguments and suggest a course of action Lastly both agreed to defend the council decision at circuit appellate courts only up to Supreme Court If that action is necessary the difference between the two Attorney Booker and Steve and Buscupic was that Michael best and Friedrich with Stephen Buscupic. I was willing to work pro bono for the city So the process would not involve any charge to the city for the special prosecutor and that includes all All appellates and circuit court decisions defending up to that if if appealed Based on that our recommendation is to go ahead and Request this body recommend to full Common Council to hire Stephen Buscupic of Michael best and Friedrich to begin the investigation People have asked why at this point in time proceed with the investigation the process removes the council from from for the process Until the national hearing if that's required if that's necessary is heard There doesn't need to be space between the prosecutor and this body and Hiring one allows that space It provides investigation into basis of facts and avoids rumors Which of course we've all been dealing with various people are speaking about it to us on the streets at work Calling us on the phone and so on It provides a basis of facts who either act upon or not act upon depending what the investigation concludes It avoids the mud slinging in public that has been threatened The investigation will go quietly Without necessarily our personal and intimate knowledge day-to-day knowledge and will be reported back to us to see if there's anything to continue or not to continue The prosecutor becomes the at the contact point For all those that are contacting us at this point in time Which does allow us to focus on the city business that we have at hand instead I think furthermore another reason to proceed is As stated It is perhaps our responsibility. There has been verified written complaints from the public Is it or is it not a responsibility to act upon those complaints? And in the best way most efficient way Going forward would be with a pro bono prosecutor who does the investigation on our behalf I think you might have a new Alderman van Akron that has said it best, but I heard it from you Alderman Hammond most recently But picture us as a citizen filing a complaint against say the police or the sheriff's departments and nothing happened How do we feel? How we feel about whitewash or sweeping under the carpets That's what's happened at this point in time. I Think it's the most efficient way of proceeding it removes us from Process until the hearing is scheduled or not scheduled depending on what the investigative findings are So I'm here to answer any questions But I urge you that to recommend to the full body to go forward to accept the offer of a pro bono Services for special prosecutor Steven Buscupic I'll just add a add a couple things to what president Rinfley said for those in the audience and those watching on television Attorney Buscupic is the former u.s. Attorney for the eastern district of Wisconsin He has many years of experience and litigation Including public officials in the Milwaukee area Has a very impressive background as did attorney Buker That's just a little more information on attorney Buscupic is there any questions from the council? Alderman raceler Just a couple questions number one Out of curiosity, how much was the other attorney looking at charging? Did he say? Or was it to the $10,000 would have been the their discounted? crime victim rate which was Rough 230 dollars an hour to 30 an hour and did we look at? Possibly using any of these two attorneys for the second attorney if we needed it after a while Just to get a rough ballpark figure is What that may cost us later on if we would need it With discussions with Yes, it is We have been up to this point in time working with attorney Joseph Valkner from Olsen, Chloe Gunnerson and Conway Who has been our? quasi judicial hearing For while licensing and other issues In the past and it's quite comfortable working with us at that point in time as well for the Lowest cheapest rate. It has not been formalized yet. That's the recommendation would have to come through We'd have to get the document ready for for next week with the actual contracts for both but attorney Valkner was Very clear and understanding that our position with the 10,000 and being willing to report On a regular basis where he is and how much and why the expenditures are I don't see that attorney costing us that much The role that person would only really take place during the hearing itself. Thanks If I can just add a little to that The three of us thought that Would be probably better for us to work with a local attorney for the attorney that's going to represent the council Either one of these two two attorneys could have filled that role don't get me wrong They're they were highly qualified for that but we felt with the experience That attorney Valkner had with working with the city for ten years In various various things including quasi judicial judicial hearings for the law and licensing committee We felt that it would be much easier to work with him on a local basis for example, if we would have Wanted attorney Booker to handle that there's a long distance between here in Della field and it would just It would have just been I think more difficult We the three of us felt more comfortable because of our past history with the attorney Valkner and recommending him Are there any other questions? Alderman Bursi. Thank you. Alderman Raceler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman I'd like to make a motion to go ahead and recommend to the full council to hire Move over and hire Second Is the motion to hire attorney? Biscupic We have a motion and a second To hire attorney Biscupic from Michael best and Frederick. Is there any further discussion? President Rindflash, I'm a My understanding. I think you've had conversations today The Contrary to the belt both and there will come to council next week So we can discuss that point in time, right? We don't need a motion today for that for that position. Is that correct? Well, we we I guess it's at the pleasure of the council whether they want to make a motion on attorney Valkner We will have a we will have a resolution or a contract from any Biscupics law firm and also attorney Valkner's Law firm If we have this council meeting next Tuesday night those contracts will come forward for for final approval If that's what the council votes on tonight Alderman versey chairman would you like me to make that motion to include both attorneys? You may make simple. It's there. I Like to make that motion to accept both attorneys And I'll I'll second poll. Okay Is there any further discussion? Alderman Riesler, I guess the question I have is why would we want to hire the second attorney right away? If we don't know that we're going to go forward with a hearing For the specific fact that we can hire that attorney at any point in time President in place Most of the work will be done obviously at the at hearing time by that attorney as as our Council But initially communication between us as a body and the prosecuting attorney should go through our council To again provide space between us and the prosecutor and that's something that attorney Valkner felt strongly about So we would need to have somebody representing us initially Once the contact is signed. Okay, so there will be obviously a fee associated with that throughout the whole process Yeah, okay, there will be some fees. I just want to make sure that we understand. This is not completely cost-free No, there there will be a cost for the attorney that that represents the That represents the council But we will we as president moonfly said we will be getting regular updates and he's aware of the original Approved $10,000 Thank You alderman versey and alderman racelor alderman matta check just had a question So the attorney for 230 is that what he would usually charge for the one going up for pro bono Or is that what the other ones the second one that we're now hiring as well going charged? That was attorney Buker His best rate would have been the 230 Do you know what the going rate for the one going for pro bono right now is what he usually charges for all? I would estimate to be the approximate the same And From my experience with attorneys, they usually only do pro bono for a month that because they're an experience So they would like the experience or is me all over mad at you can't hear you Is that go ahead? Okay My concern is that with my experience with attorneys They usually only do pro bono for two reasons one is that they're inexperienced and they want their experience or two They want to pre-press and it's the second one that concerns me about the reputation of the city moving forward If we have our attorney here that's doing it because he wants to press Well What kind of press is that going to be for the city and reputation for the city moving forward? How many more months is it? go ahead Attorney to tell you there's another reason as well and that is the ethical obligations under the ABA in Wisconsin Supreme Court rules that attorneys must follow and this case is What Michael Bessner Friedrich would use to? Meet to those obligations, so it's not necessarily press It's not necessarily a gaining experience. I don't think attorney Baskupik needs the experience or needs the press What it is rather is The no charge to fulfill ethical standards that that so instead of for united one or you know, I mean United Way or Any other nonprofits? He would be volunteering his time for this. I'm not an attorney, but I don't think it's volunteers And not the time it's providing legal services Is is what they have to do? I mean we have attorneys that may be able to answer that question for us because again I'm not an attorney, but that's explained to us is that the reason why the proposing No charge for a bono is it helps Michael Bessner Friedrich satisfy ethical obligations under ABA in Wisconsin Supreme Court rules Anything else? Oh, thank you. Oh, I'm a meta check. Is there anybody else? Has he indicated what kind of time frame we'd be looking at the Time frame was not specifically discussed in the sense that investigation has to happen first and if Upon beginning investigation again both attorneys had said And there's there's no basis to proceed. They'll notify us immediately if you're in the investigation. There is Reason to proceed. They'll notify us, but the state statute does specify a speedy hearing So, you know for all parties involved. It has to be a speedy process whatever the speedy means I don't know but that's Anything else? Oh, I'm an honor Thank you, all of them and any other discussion Okay, you're hearing no further discussion We have a motion and a second to hire Retain Steven Biskupik as the special prosecutor from the law firm of Michael best and Frederick and Also to retain the services of attorney Joseph J Volkner of Olson, Claude Gunderson and Conway I Hi No No, I close enough. Hi. No I No, I Excuse me. I Motion carries The Before we adjourn I believe President Rindflash is going to try to call a council meeting a special council meeting for this coming Tuesday night, which is August 30th 2011 at 6 p.m. And we will be taking up What we voted on tonight, of course with the committee of a whole is just a recommendation for the council at the next council meeting So we will attempt to have a council meeting Next Tuesday August 30th, and I understand that attorney Biskupik and Attorney Volkner will be here on Tuesday evening if you have any questions. You'd like to ask them So as far as the next meeting of the committee of the whole that will be will be determined I will entertain a motion to adjourn Second we have a motion and a second to adjourn we are adjourned. Thank you very much for everybody that attended tonight's meeting