 Okay, welcome to Vicki. Tonight we're discussing women's issues and we have with us Tracy and Sally and Beth and Vy and Robin and I guess I want to start. I'm Sandy Baird and I put together this program that Vicki will be doing this semester including tonight we'll be talking about the status of women particularly around health issues, reproductive issues and maybe the ERA if we get to it and other issues that will impact women all across really across the world not just in the United States. I want to begin by saying that I believe that certain people all people maybe are a little uncomfortable dealing with women's issues and women's health in particular because so much has to do with reproduction with the issues of abortion and birth control and I think it makes some people very uneasy so we're going to have to we want tonight to have a very frank discussion about those issues because it's definitely going to affect the presidential race coming up in 2020. Okay so I guess I will start should I start by explaining where what Roe v. Wade comes from in the first place? Legally? Sure. Okay the numbers of women in this group Sally I don't know about the other one were involved in the initial legal cases which which allowed abortion to become legal in the United States and Beth right I didn't know Beth at the time so I'm sorry but you were what you are not in the time this was about 1972 but I'm going to talk more about and that was the time when there was a legal case in Vermont in the Supreme Court which allowed abortion to be legalized or decriminalized really and what I mean by that was there was only one law on the books about that subject of determination of pregnancies and that law was against doctors and it said that doctors could not terminate a pregnancy however a woman could herself so the court in that case it was called the Jacqueline R case decided that because it was not a crime for women to do that then it's not a crime for a doctor either to do it and so in a sense in 1972 abortion became legal in Vermont and in that interim process in spring I think a bunch of Vermont just got together informed the Vermont women's health center in Colchester it was the first clinic women's clinic in I think in the country although it had been abortion had been legalized in New York state prior to that in Vermont that was the first we founded the first women's health center which provided full services for women's health which meant birth control abortion gynecological examinations and acted as a full women's health center and that still is an existence although I believe it's not become a partnership right with plan here it became part of plan there as far as I know anyway so that was in Vermont but in 1973 there was a US Supreme Court case that was decided that was crucial for this issue and that was the case of Roe v. Wade and I wanted to mention where that legally came from there are many people who argue that it has no real legal basis in the Constitution however it does it has a legal basis in the Constitution and when you want when you hear the arguments that were used very young attorney Sarah Weddington was her name she was a very young attorney as she says she had done a few adoptions and uncontested divorces when she was asked to argue the case to the Supreme Court and that was in 1972 how is it decided that and it's being attacked today in fact that's one of the big promises that President Trump has made is to overturn Roe v. Wade and to even criminalize women if they have had or if they do an abortion do you all know that that he has suggested that women be punished for an abortion I would remind our viewers if there are any out there that many women whether they talk about it or not say we know the statistics on that this is an up-to-date but 45% of women in this country will have an abortion right and Emily's was today said that 80% of women or voters I forgot now favor abortion bill I've never seen that statistic change from the earliest days at least 60% of Americans favor legal abortion keeping abortion legal okay so I'm gonna read you the amendment then maybe we'll discuss how why this favors women's rights to choose so 14th amendment some of you guys have gotten a constitution with you so page 25 of this little constitution which I'm like senator bird a senator from the south always carries a constitution on me most of the time unless I forget it so page 25 excuse me and this is a 14th amendment of the US Constitution and let me tell you when it was passed it was passed in 1868 in the post Civil War era right after the Civil War so I want to maybe the people here to look at that 14th amendment and you can tell me two things what does it have to do with the Civil War and what does it have to do with a women's rights to choose okay here's what it says the opening lines all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state where would they reside and no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States and then it goes on to say that all citizens have the right to the equal protection of the law equally so what does that have to do I'll tell you why this event was passed and it really has nothing to do with termination of pregnancies right nothing it did have to do with three very important amendments that were passed immediately following the Civil War one the 15th which gave black people black men the right to vote that's the one that's the subject to the movie Lincoln which is a movie that everybody should see it's a fabulous movie okay so this is passed at the end of the Civil War when four and a half million black people were emancipated no skills no jobs no homes no families but they were free from slavery okay so this said after much much fights that black men because the whole legal status had to be redesigned for black for former slaves the whole Constitution had to be reconstructed in a way to what were these people that were had never been free before black men under the 15th were granted the right to vote the 14th made them what according to this what did the 14th amendment do to those former slaves can't figure it out made them citizens made them citizens all persons born in the United States in 1868 became citizens of the United States okay and then in the 15th amendment oh no I'm sorry the 13th amendment abolished slavery the 14th we're going to discuss in a minute the 15th gave black men the right to vote okay so what about the 14th the 14th made everybody here that was born here a citizen it's important right and entitled to all the privileges and immunities of all other citizens by the way does this make Native American citizens no read subject to the jurisdiction of the United States Indians Native Americans were never never wanted to be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at that time Native Americans were in their separate nations and they were considered to be in separate nations and dealt with by treaties they didn't want to be citizens they became citizens against their will in like much later in the 19th century okay anyway okay but what does then the 14th amendment really do about Roe v. Way and this was the argument that Sarah Weddington use she based her legal arguments on the 14th amendment Tracy you should know this oh Tracy was telling you right it applies to persons who are born read it yeah born people have citizenship rights that was the argument which favor okay did you know that no okay it's important so when someone ever gives you grief about the rights of fetuses do they have any rights under the 14th amendment no any legal rights no it's born people have rights because born people are citizens of the United States so that's really the basis of it so how do the other the people who are against the women's rights to choose argue about this in fact who is the born person in the controversy the woman the mother she is the citizen of the United States and therefore she has the right to the equal protection of the law under the US Constitution and under the state constitutions as well isn't there an emphasis on the right to privacy no no no that's how it was interpreted no it was interpreted that way by the US court so when Roe v. Way was decided there were three stages of protections in the first three months you remember nothing no no state interest a woman could go to a doctor and immediately get an abortion immediately without questions second stage was a little bit different in the second stage of pregnancy the second stage the court said well the state can regulate it at that point they can say for instance that a woman has to go to a hospital or that a doctor has to perform it although that has not been upheld either the doctor part okay that's the second stage between first three months without question second three months state can regulate third try to third trimester the state could prohibit abortion in the third and last stage of the pregnancy however there's even an exemption for that which the exemption is unless the woman's health is going to be damaged the focus in other words on Roe v. Way was not on fetuses it was on a woman's rights as a citizen of this beleaguered republic so probably way to find those three states right okay correct that's one of the trimester concept and you know who else had that concept until the end of the 19th century it was the Catholic Church the Catholic Church defined that you could have an abortion up to viability which is what plain forward quickening quickening correct which is usually right the Catholic Church permitted as I understand it but then it got the valid ability the Pope the Catholic Church became I think much more authoritarian after the end of the 19th century with the absolute power of the Pope and male hierarchy which has always been there anyway there's no women that have ever gotten through that class ceiling ever right so so that's the legal basis of Roe and that's what she argued in the court and the court said essentially she's right that that is correct ever since then though there's been a backlash so this was accomplished in the early days of the feminist movement of course it was the second wave to what was the first wave of a woman's movement suffrage suffrage which we're celebrating this year Robin knows all about that right well simply that the women's international League for Peace and Freedom is honoring the fact that this is the 100th anniversary of women getting the right to vote and Vermont very sluggardly in slugger yeah in supporting that initially the the governor was against even allowing the vote to happen here so we we did not initially as a state support it but it's only required I think two-thirds majority to and it can become law back in the day and that finally happened but anyway we are holding some events in October of this year a woman who's a wonderful speaker on this subject will be here in Burlington and at various schools right as schools right okay so that was the first wave and it occurred the first wave of a women's suffrage movement was right after the Civil War until 1920 and the reason that women really wanted to vote at the time of the Civil War so many women had worked for the abolitionist movement and they really felt that you know black people and black men can vote so should all black women so should all women be allowed to vote and that didn't happen and so after that was turned down because you'll notice in the 15th Amendment black men got the right to vote only not black women not white women at that time no at that time the property qualifications for voting had been mainly eliminated and there was a reason for that you know it was in effect in the early days of the republic right but you know there's so much property here and you could gain property fairly easy by robbing it from some Native Americans and so the property qualifications didn't make that much sense after a while but the oppression of women continued and the and black people of course so black men got the right to vote before women did but we all knew that right and so the women that was the first movement of women against for their own rights as a women's movement although men were in it because of course it recognized the suffrage recognizes that women are people women are equal to men and women should have the right to vote because they have equal brains of men and it put some doing some don't it put a schism between women and black people black men because they were mad yeah why should these why should these guys these in fact one of the leaders of the women's movement said why should these samples be able to endure the door before us that was her I mean people have been people have been pushing for that for a long time I mean John Adams what yes president Abigail Adams and you know famously wrote to him remember the ladies but he didn't Betty no women didn't get about he kind of he kind of grew up all with that so cute you know and you guys rule us at home in the bedroom in the kitchen you know you're in charge you're in charge ladies but he wasn't the worst guy in the world John Adams who really was rather an abolitionist as well in terms of that issue yeah right right but there were a lot in other words I'm trying to say they're worse than just then the Adams I have always kind of liked the Adams because they were so against slavery yeah but anyway so that's kind of the historical interpretation of Roe V Wade since that time by the way there's been a huge bass without the first women's movement suffered the second wave which I was involved in many the women here involved in was the wave around basically the core demand was rights to control your body rights to have birth control and a right to terminate pregnancies now why is that so important is the question and I have to you have to I mean what freedom does a woman have if they don't have those rights what kind of liberty does a woman have if she's always capable of getting pregnant until how old from the time that maybe 13 until the time there 45 or 50 and that's really what happens in societies where women don't have the right to choose met when I first moved here I would work what or access right but when I first moved here in the 90 late 1960s I was working at legal aid and I was becoming a lawyer actually and I was I was a volunteer at legally and what's where I studied the law and there are many other women and they were part of the staff of the way there weren't very many women attorneys at that time in fact I was one of the first hundred women in the state of Vermont who became an attorney and the staff at legal aid were women from the local communities and they all happen to live in Winooski mostly and they were part of the French Catholic Quebec tradition and all of them and that was 68 had 10 or 14 kids yet brothers and sisters and I came from a family of five which I thought was large because I came from a Quebec family also my mother was a Quebec law and big big families so I've always thought like what's going on here well there are Catholic families and it was all that was a sin for which you could get excommunicated even if you use birth control and that's what happens communicated for using birth control yes it's an abortion particularly well yeah but but you're not supposed to yes they were in fact I grew up in the state of Massachusetts anybody else grew up there where contraception was illegal and in Connecticut and no in Connecticut right that was the first legal case was Connecticut illegal until 1968 contraception really yes you don't remember all that why not I mean Margaret Sainer had done her become famous so under work two three decades earlier right in New York right yeah with Sainer in New York yeah but I'm not certain she changed the law and you know you can change the law in one state but you can't change it nationwide unless you go to the court which happened roping away with 73 right so it wasn't I mean I moved to Wisconsin and sit in was at 65 and I went to Wisconsin and birth controls of legal I couldn't believe it you could get condoms in Wisconsin couldn't in Massachusetts we had a friend who had you know what happened to a woman who a teenager who would get pregnant in Massachusetts in the 50s and 60s what did you have to do you don't remember nobody's from Massachusetts I guess lucky you although I love Massachusetts now but you would have had to especially as a Catholic girl you'd have had to go to a home for unwed mothers and deliver the baby and give it up for adoption it was pretty that's so it was it was a teenager in Texas I think it was your second or third pregnancy don't know her story Norman Norma Covington that was what you're talking about the one here in Vermont I think her name was no that was Jack Jack on our Norma something I used to know her name I thought it was Covington but I'm not certain but what happened anyway sorry oh no she was remind me she was the row yeah yeah and she had had I think it was it was a second or third pregnancy and I can't remember she had the other ones or not and she actually maybe I think had given birth to the child before the case was even heard what was it like I'm trying to remember yeah I don't I don't think I'm not certain she ever did have an abortion because it had to go through the courts yeah I had to go through all the courts but so women in other countries which don't have the right to choose they still have 13 14 kids in a family and the problem that that's a problem for the whole society at that point because women with that many kids can't really as far as I can tell unless it's enormous effort can't really participate in society if they if you have that many kids right can't really your home taking care of well you can't be a first-class citizen if you do not you're not able to control your reproductive life it's just that's what always really struck me is that without that right women's lives are truncated yeah you know but if the end in no society if women have that right though think also think about the population problem would you have a population problem if women chose how many kids you wouldn't have one would you how many women would choose to have a kid every two years what kind of population problems here to stay I think I don't think so I'm not a few power women I don't think so I don't think you have a population probably the carrying capacity of the planet when over 1835 that's a big argument I think which is great that you bring it up because that is the argument that's often used in the environmental crisis that there are too many people and I think that that's true in the environmental discussion I think people though should be discussing that maybe but as well be discussing what would happen how would you solve the population problem I don't think it could be politically a little bit I see to talk about what controls right control population I know I people people look I don't know I don't want to talk about it you know in a way because you know it's looked at who then who who is going to be using that you know and who will be using it well I don't know I just I'm sorry to talk so much it's an important argument using what well you know I think then there's some people might talk about well we want these kinds of people you know in lower economic situations probably to really use you know let's give them a lot of birth control and then on the another side of the point I often have people who I feel like they're not gonna have any children because it's just wrong to have children like you know what I think it should be you had kids that they'd be good citizens I would love for you to have at least one child you know what was decision is it in the end the guys I said the guys I was kidding it was a joke but what is the high the amendment doesn't the high the men yes the high I never go ahead payment for poor women to be able to get abortion for the other way around and I don't know if it is well well federal funds federal funds to go for abortion well that's what I'm saying that's right the opposite of what you were thinking instead of the men in charge saying let's limit these poor people from having more kids they're mandating that they have to have more kids by refusing to let them have birth control but they don't count the argument that way what what they say is that you shouldn't have sex true I just heard it the other day well because she was about controlling women's bodies no in the English common law right women and children were shadow right they were owned by men or maybe not no marriage no marriage does say marriage does say that all marriage says that it's presumed marriage gives the man the husband the right to claim those kids as kids if you're single by the way I so I say to women a mother has many more rights as an unmarried woman to her children than if she's married because in the marriage law a father a husband is automatically the father automatically whether it's true or not the husband is the presumed father of him of his wife's children which gives him rights to the kids that he doesn't have as a single parent and what's the reason for that because who knows who the father is if you're single right so all of this is based on biology basically so men who are married and are having sex presumably with their wives it is a presumption that they are the fathers it gives those children well what's the name of a child used to be who's born on a wedlock what bastard right so a child that is born to a woman alone without a husband was always de-legitimatized in the society right and they were not either they weren't heirs of the father being a husband gives the man rights to the child and it gives the man a person or a kid that he can leave his property to with some degree of certainty or does it doesn't that's the reason to me for marriage and also marriage supposedly was instituted to protect women too although being a domestic lawyer I've seen too many cases where marriage doesn't do that far too many right but anyway so what do we all think of this why is this such a tricky issue too so the reason that it came up comes up more and more in my mind is the present presidential election but it's come up in my mind many many other times what when did this abortion rights actually even become an issue because it seems to me that it's fairly recent I mean up until I don't know when who cared I mean who cared why were there laws against it always there were always laws against it I don't think so there were laws against it even in Vermont until 72 there are laws all over the country before that yeah like where did they originate yeah laws because they originate because there's many reasons but they're but they're originated when did the law start caring about oh well at the time I believe that medical schools were established frankly prior to that reproduction and birth had been assisted by whom so at that time I doubt if it was illegal because who knew about nobody although there's a lot of movies which indicate that it you could get trouble I think that it goes back maybe I don't know but what you said about it's a way of controlling behavior when people wanted to change the way that you were acting you know everything right you know they'd be like you know so if you have to pay the consequences for this I think it's always been against the law for doctors to do it in particular number one and you might as Vermont's law which was Vermont's law legal for doctors right but there's really in tradition first of why would it be illegal or a taboo even a taboo subject why what is it based on the fact that women are not cannot be in charge of their own bodies what's it all based on exactly will you tell me guess tell take a guess why why is why does I care well the church says the Catholic Church in particular says that it's homicide yeah okay that's their opinion but but they hold sway over much of the world you know you might say that's not a great thing it shouldn't help sway over because you're speaking like in Americans you're speaking like an American there should be separation of church estate which it says in the first amendment to the Constitution the rest of the world doesn't think the rest no country many few countries don't buy that for one thing so religion holds a lot of power still in most countries of the world including countries that you would expect like Iran and like the Muslim world even in England it's a theocracy the Queen of England is it has to be Episcopalian and that church really those are called theocracies where religion and God still rule all those things women's women's are controlled right and now I don't know you can get an abortion and of course I didn't say I said England was a theocracy I don't know what their laws are on that subject but other countries are also theocracies and do have laws against women's right to choose but it's not only religion what else why visit I saw the Godfather last night really interesting do you know what the woman finally leaves the awful Godfather remember that Godfather too she has an abortion what I don't think I saw this is part to him he kicks her out at that point because she had she gets an abortion of his child I just think that that is the ultimate control that in a male dominated society that is the that is the real control over women's bodies isn't it what is the control over birth control it's the men who decide in other words how women are going to behave well in ancient history before people living in clans and so on knew that contraception would lead to the birth of a baby it was more of a matriarchy right I mean it so the determining who the father was then the father had an investment in this creature right and was concerned about inheritance right and so all the inheritance laws were were made to sort of support men and the kind of patriarchy that was created and their property yeah I mean they're there I mean that women were beheaded for not producing male but so when does anybody know what point medical science figured out that it's the male who determines the sex of the child is anyone I don't know because that that wasn't like not that long ago really no well but also the key thing about in this country was the development of DNA right and that to establish paternity right to establish paternity because before that you if you were not married you didn't nobody knew exactly certainly exactly you know but once you were married it was presumed that the husband was the father and then DNA really nailed man no he really nailed them because once the DNA test was done and a father would be identified as father guess what he has to do right play child support right so I mean all of this is deeply in family law which is never discussed anywhere and it's one of the most unpopular parts of the law right Tracy has worked with me in the legal clinic it is really pretty emotional isn't it and tedious you have to put up with a lot to be a continual family law person but anyway so but I find that this is an issue in the upcoming election and I'm curious somebody said I watched the debate the other night which said that white women will choose Trump over Bernie and I wanted to set true President Trump has said he would like to at one point he said he wanted to punish women who had abortions that's one thing he said that they that the woman herself should be criminalized and most pro-life whatever they call themselves now if they don't even say that they say that the doctor should be criminalized but they don't say that about a woman but Trump went on to say well if it's such a serious matter and if it's the death of a human being then the woman herself should go to jail which is true in Latin America right like El Salvador right and other parts of Latin America there's another kind of analysis that probably other people in the room could do better than me that runs parallel to this which is that certain women started to become better educated more successful in business getting closer to that glass ceiling and you know perhaps there was some conscious or unconscious thought that women were to stay in their place and have children it wouldn't be challenging because and men wouldn't have to share or give up any of that power yeah that's true but that's really the states I mean there's so many women in the world who are never gonna read a night yeah so I think what what I also try to do when I think about women is I really do try to think of the international position of women and it's still I mean in this country you could argue that women have equal rights and we might even get a constitutional amendment about it it's really not true except in a lot of other countries it's just not true well you were bringing up Trump though yeah I know it what is the point they did last time women white women voted for Trump over Hillary Clinton why I mean they may vote for him these are white suburban women women that would call themselves they they call them and maybe it's a pejorative but they but they called them soccer moms they weren't they're not poor you think you're overly influenced by the husbands no I can't figure out except I'll tell you what I think but it's I don't think that women stick together very much I don't think they like Hillary I can't imagine I wonder if there's any data on that they say there's data on it Sally they show it who does the fact with the pollsters the people who keep statistics they all say that they said maybe it's not true but I've heard nothing to the contrary but what the reason was is not really explained that the way that they didn't like Hillary I don't know why I don't I'm asking you guys what is your opinion if that is because it's gonna they say I don't believe it's true okay you find that I will next time okay I believe it's true I believe that I think there were a lot of white women and white people in general who voted for Trump I do too that's who did vote for them but I don't think it's like more white women they find it out please because that's what they're saying but beyond that they're all the pundits the people who keep statistics they were arguing that the same thing is gonna happen don't choose Trump over Bernie yeah what and the reason that I find it so curious is that Bernie doesn't talk about decision much but Bernie Sanders Senator Sanders is a huge proponent of choice yeah huge yeah and has been here and you should probably talk about it more because that's what I'm wondering that's why that is an important issue and and he I mean pro-choice for mom gave an award one year for his enduring support for what's right to choose so anybody have any thinking thinking about that why is it true that they will that women will do that again if they did it in the first time which I think they did well I mean not as a block what it's not as a block of women but well they're saying it was suburban women white women that's what they that's what the statisticians and the people who looked at all that is that yeah I'm that warren some research because that's really hard to believe you haven't ever heard that yeah why are you all I think the women were vote when people voted for Trump I think the women voted along with their husbands and many of them were living in rural areas outside of cities but they were nonetheless the people who kind of found their lives more difficult that year those years that they then previously they were the women who were whose husbands and who themselves were losing their jobs because the footplans were closed I never shall we say the way Hillary said they were the deplorable I know and so that's how they voted so part of the explanation for the vote is exactly the socio-economic it was a protest vote really and I agree with you it was I think you're saying it was a class-based thing that and I understand that that poorer people voted for Trump because our lives are visible I understand that but this is not what that what they what people who have studied it say and they say about middle class women white women but also a gigantic meme I believe it's close it wasn't a meme a sort of a stereotype about Hillary Clinton that you know about her emails about that she was corrupt you know and these stories of that she should go to jail and this was just hammered down on people during the election as if it was true and I you know I don't I don't know to what degree I mean the wiki wiki leaks reveals that there was shenanigans certainly in in the democratic planning of trying to control burning from having power but I think those those ideas that she should go to jail I mean come on and the and the emails that the jail just don't require less than welcome excuse me yeah we have a seat for you Jill well we have a seat now I'll introduce you to the camera okay this is Jill this is Jill Croinsky who's coming in from the legislature and Jill was a big supporter and sponsor of the legislation that codified Roe v. Wade into the Vermont law right and this representative Jill you're also the leader of the Democratic Party aren't you I am the House majority leader okay he's what yeah okay the House majority leader and she whips all the Democrats into place I hope do you can you tell us what happened at the State House today I can okay so Jill is going to give us I want you to start with that we've been talking about Roe v. Wade and the codification of it into Vermont law and the history of it and what we're going to do about the next election for women but also Jill is here she's just fresh out of the legislature where they've made some really important decisions today and so why don't you give us an update wow well yeah I think that we have incredible work to do this legislative session to advance issues that help support women and families so I can talk about after this at age 57 and prop 5 which are reproductive rights package of legislation today we had a vote on a bill to create a paid family medical leave program in Vermont which would give through a small payroll tax new parents 12 weeks for bonding at 90% wage replacement and eight weeks to take care of a sick family member which way paid paid yeah and get has an voluntary opt-in if you want TDI temporary disability insurance for yourself we had the governor this has gone through many committees and many floor votes and the governor recently vetoed the bill and so today the house had an override vote and unfortunately we fell one vote short one one so this is shows the importance of every single vote for every single elected official that you care about because this is how it trickles up when you have people who don't necessarily vote the same way their community wants but isn't this the same sort of bill that Trump just gave permission to federal workers that they would have the yes so interesting because governor Scott did a similar thing in that while he was negotiating with the state employees Association on their contract he gave them up there's a provision in the contract that creates a paid family and medical leave program just for state employees and it creates an opt-in for the general public but because it's all voluntary for members of the public it's a much more expensive plan to run so it is interesting that here we are federal employees get it through Trump state employees get it through Scott and yet the rest of us are now still waiting to get access to a program that we can afford and so this is one that we'll be taking to the voters because this is a critical issue for women and in so many ways economic security health outcomes equal pay I mean it's it touches so many buckets of issues that we I assume all care about and happy for so I'm fired up so did you just come from that vote today yes that's why it's failed food voted for Democrats right yeah where was the whip you're the but weren't you trying to whip everyone in the line that is easier said than done unlike the Republican Party where there's just line loyalty we have robust conversations with people with their the challenges that they are having with some of the provisions in the bill and the group so we let me just pause for a second in the house there are 150 seats if we need to override a vote you need a hundred votes it's two-thirds of the members present in the room House Democrats have 95 votes so if we need to get to 100 we have to find a coalition of people to join us with the Republicans so the Republicans all voted against it we got one independent on board and we were able to get the Progressive Party caucus on board and there were four Democrats who we could not get on board or they changed their mind at the last minute who were they the members Randall Zod Chris Bates Cynthia Browning and Linda Joyce Oliver there and their Democrats yep well I think some of them identify whores independence but I guess they caucus with us so once there's a vote taken like that an override can they can it still if if one of someone if someone voted against it they can they still ask for reconsideration yes so there is a procedural motion that could be made only the day after the vote so it could only happen tomorrow and it could only happen at the very beginning of the session of you know what we're in session for the end of orders of that day and during announcements and it has to be made from someone who voted against it to say I make a motion to reconsider is anyone working on that tonight so you're here I bet you're gonna go home and work on there are some other people that are working on the arena I think it is I think Frank with you I think it's a heavy lift the issues that these members have are all over the political spectrum some people say it's too much and some people say it's not enough the press is arguing that right yeah they join us and so I think we have a huge legislative agenda ahead of us that includes minimum wage we have several climate change bills like that are coming through we have a tax and regulatory marijuana bill coming we have a gun safety bill that's going to be coming to the floor so we will try to see if we can change and get and get a possible vote on reconsideration but I feel like it's pretty unlikely and that we need to forge ahead on the rest of our agenda because we are like four weeks away from crossover which is when all the bills have to switch bodies to be considered and get closer to the path of becoming law so it's a so so Scott vetoed it yes it's interesting that should probably be known that it's too expensive what he said it's too expensive so we're gonna carry carry the ball for like covering for work that doesn't get paid for I mean as ever been true it's really interesting because in his budget address he talked about spending a lot of money and not raising any taxes and so we're like how are you gonna do that we want to see the details on what's gonna get cut right and one of his proposals was to increase access to nurses visiting new parents and I just wanted to say they're not gonna be home because they have to be at work they don't have access to a paid leave program and so you know I think this is really important reminder to all of us is like legislative races are important but this year the governor's race is critical if we're ever gonna be able to make progress on issues that help women and the family families and women and families and you know we shouldn't be governing by overrides with which is what is starting to happen it's like these really critical policies that can help families are you know coming up against whether or not we can form a coalition to get to 100 and that doesn't feel right and I'm so I'm deeply deeply disappointed and frustrated and I'm even like more geared up now to help out on the gubernatorial race yeah there's gonna be a primary right yeah that's right David Zuckerman is running for governor yep David Zuckerman but but he would be a independence there would be two people running against he's not an independent he's running in the Democratic primary and he said he will not run separately correct he has okay he's running as a Democrat I guess a PD or what yeah the important thing is he's in the Democratic primary and so therefore he's gonna come out of the primary if he wins as a Democrat I think right unless you don't know what he's gonna do after I know that he's running in the Democratic right running like Bernie basically is doing in the Democratic primary and he's getting a lot of crap from the Democrats right really a lot I'm like just very laser focused it's good that you're here because I've laser focused on Iowa yes right so it's good that you're here to remind us that something is going on in Montpelier also yeah so you might talk a little bit because we have been talking about Roe Vway and reproductive rights Jill was very critical in passing in the legislature last year right a codification of Roe Vway into Vermont law so why don't you talk a little what does that mean sure well so I'll say this during the campaign in what was it 17 18 going into like 18 for 19 so this last election cycle well we were on the campaign trail we we weren't anticipating having to take action on abortion rights in the state because forever because we were part of it Sally and me in Bathaway so we you know we don't have anything in law but there was a court case that said that Medicaid could cover no the law before that was the Jacqueline our case right so there was a court case ironically that senator Leahy right yeah but he was he was the prosecutor right that said that a doctor shouldn't be criminalized for providing abortion care right and that was the basis for saying in Vermont that abortion was legal so while we're on the campaign trail the Supreme Court vacancy happens and Kavanaugh gets born in and a lot of us who have been working on reproductive rights for a long time my background is from Planned Parenthood all freaked out we need to come together to see if we are fully protected in Vermont because what the direction that's happening in Washington and frankly across the country we need to make sure that reproductive rights in Vermont are 110% protected and after having several conversations it became clear that we had an opportunity and we needed to take time this legislative session to make sure that we were completely safe and guarded and what that turned into was a short-term strategy and a long-term strategy so the short-term strategy was to get a bill passed that would put into our state statute to say that every individual has a right to not choose to be sterilized let's legislative language right so you could choose whether or not to be sterilized you could choose to carry a pregnancy or you could choose to have an abortion and that is the essence of codifying row in our we kept it very very simple and straightforward so the bill age 57 started in the house when it came to the floor there were a slew of amendments that were targeted to weaken it everything from waiting periods transvaginal ultrasounds you name it and we were able to beat back every single amendment like I told Sandy I would not let Bill come to the floor that I thought would get watered down and that it was critical that we had the strongest language possible so we beat back every amendment and it advanced to the Senate they supported it and it went to the governor so that was the short-term plan and he signed it he signed it I will say that he had told Planned Parenthood that he was supportive of reproductive rights and was a little I would say vague uncertain questionnaires and so he was in a place where he could not this is the essence of supporting reproductive rights so he did he did sign that bill the other legislative strategy for the long-term plan is making sure that abortion rights are codified in our state constitution so amending our state constitution is like a legislative marathon that spans four years and ends with a ballot initiative and so this started all ballot initiatives to change the Constitution have to start in the Senate every other biennium so we were in the window where we could do that they the Senate passed it and then we took it up and passed it but this does not need a gubernatorial signature so that's like lap one around the racetrack is getting a constitutional amendment through the House and the Senate and one biennium so now we'll have an election and that means we have needs to be asking people yeah we're running for office where do you stand on prop 5 mm-hmm after the election we'll come back and we have to go through the same process again but it can't be amended so goes to the Senate goes to the House after it clears that next biennium it goes on the ballot so in 2022 we will have prop 5 on our ballot in November so the Constitution of Ramonda will be amended if it passes it will be amended and is it just passed by a simple majority of dollars yes yes and it can't be the bill itself can't be amended now from now on from now because it been through one cycle yeah well but if row we wait is overturned which I don't think it will be but I think it will be restricted so much that it's going to make women's lives miserable but I don't think they dare to overturn it but if they overturn it then the law reverts to the state so Vermont will be then in charge of their own law because Roe v. Wade will be gone and so then that issue will be controlled by the state government so it's not like we're going to restrict it to say you know what she's after the first time we're not going to because of the federal government the federal no the federal law might say it's restricted that's what I think for instance there was a bill in one of the decoders I think that was going to make a topic pregnancies well yeah I know they've said that because doctors had to like remove these and that's really scientifically impossible so I mean I know it but they wanted to make that subject that's how much they know about pregnancy so anybody have any questions for Jill well what do you see happening if this did become law in the future and Roe the holding was restricted and conflicted with the Vermont law what could happen so it this the short answer is it can't conflict because the way that a lot all of these legislation these legislative initiatives and these court cases basically say it goes back to the states right so it wouldn't be it would be a state decision on how you want to regulate abortion care and so I'll give you a perfect example of what Scott wanted to do at one point when he was running for office he wanted to say that it was okay to pass a law mandating that a young girl pregnant girl would have to get the consent of her parents it was called parental consent so wait a minute so what would what that's the kind of restriction that Phil Scott wanted so one of many so it knows years there were groups of us who opposed him on that why would that be why would Howard Dean had the best argument about that of anybody did you know yeah he's very pro-choice but I know he's a doctor yeah do you know what he said this was it really interesting he said it's I've seen too many times where the father of the mother is the father of the fetus figure that out what right so he opposed all that he imposed all restrictions on abortion and Vermont has the least restrictions on it of anybody of any other state isn't it I think there are other states that have taken action recently to protect access that are very close right yeah but it's the work of people like Jill and my grassroots movements who have made Vermont really different than other states you know we have a consciousness that doesn't seem to be the same as in many other states on a lot of questions like on the death penalty to would you see a situation where women from other states would start to come to maybe maybe how would that be it's fine there's no there's nothing wrong about that or illegal okay well for for us no no no there's nothing I'm just saying Vermont would be in social New York socially if there is there would be I don't know people who don't like abortion will not like that they don't have to know they don't know they won't know about it it's a private matter the women come here and go to a doctor or dentist or dentist anybody yeah these are confidential you know medical visits so I don't I don't see that didn't come that really didn't come up in conversation at the state house and I'll also say this that you know we are a rural state and sometimes finding and we have borders that our communities are you know I'm Vermont in Vermont in New Hampshire or Vermont in New York and it's a they're all like blended communities where you regularly go across you know the street to a different state to get your groceries and then come back there's a that's the same in health care and so right including with Quebec yeah yeah so I would just say that we already are in a space where people are either coming in or going out to see their medical providers even in mass we just we just see that based on what communities are so if that's not something that's different I will say that there's a concern about an oncoming shortage of abortion providers there's a generation of providers that are starting to retire and there's a gap with it more and more people are being trained providers are being trained to do that but it's a conversation that's been happening a lot and so you might just see people going out out of Vermont or coming into Vermont based on the number of providers and health centers that are that are open another thing that could impact that is the federal government has eliminated title 10 funding for health centers that impact mainly Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health clinics across the country and so there are health centers that had just they just closed also there's always threats of violence against clinics and doctors yeah so anything else for jail or should we let her go home and make phone calls yeah all right yes I would like to bring up another issue and it's HR 7 I believe is that concerning the that's for her yeah oh about the F-35 this is a statement from the Quaker meeting in Burlington we passed it and I updated it just today and let me because we have a different approach I mean we bring up issues that I think are not usually brought up in this argument about the impact of the F-35s on our community as Quakers we aspire to be good stewards of the world's resources the proposed rollout of 200 2,663 of these gigantic military machines is a flagrant waste of resources as Quakers we are historically opposed to war as Quakers we value frugality and just cutting across it we mourn the human skills and the brilliant minds of engineers mechanics and software designers wasted on building this weapon of destruction and finally as Quakers we sit in silence in our meetings for worship our Burlington meeting is near the flight path for airplanes landing and taking off at Burlington International Airport we dread the possible future roar of the F-35s into our worship and community space not to speak of the debilitating noise impact on the children citizens and animals of New Ski Williston and South Burlington we join with many Vermonters to protest the militarization of our community so I'm wondering where that resolution or a law currently passed in the Senate last time around and it's in front of the military in general affairs committee with Mr. Stevens Stevens he's from Waterbury yeah so but you have a powerful role to play and also pushing it forward right so the F-35 the the it's not a bill it's a resolution right just so everyone knows and it's currently in our house general military affairs committee I have been meeting with members from the coalition who opposed the F-35s over the course of the last year and I think where I am coming from with this and I'm still willing to have conversations and to talk about it is there's nothing that we can do in the legislature to change that we don't have the power to say of our green mountain you know our National Guard can't accept F-35s we don't have that power the power lies within the federal government so I can't pass anything that will change that decision but what I can do is to see what can we do locally to protect our our vulnerable Vermonters against the sound so I've been looking into ways that we may be able to monitor the sound better and and be transparent about the sound looking for ways to make sure that homes for the people who want them to stay in their home and have it be insulated so they're safe have access to those funds to have that happen so I can't tell you how many issues come before us that it's something the federal government is doing that is having an impact on Vermonters that we can't change it's not in our power to change and it's incredibly frustrating but that's what a resolution is it's saying we don't like it it's not as you say it's not a law you're saying we protest what the federal government is doing why can't that resolution I could send a letter as we could have a vote it will go to Washington and put it in the shutter that would be I would love that I have talked to people in the military that make some of these decisions at conferences that I've been to with legislative leaders and I'll say this like I come from a military family I understand like the respect and the the guardedness that they have and the protectiveness for for what they do but the attitude that I got back was pretty shocking and disappointing and not that you like it's not your decision don't bother me what do you think you're doing and so I was just like okay if I can't make inroads and just even have a conversation with you about it and this is that attitude that we're gonna get I need to find other paths that that actually will be productive and help people in our communities because we could send them something every day and it won't make any difference it is clear that they don't care about our feedback from what we do I think that another thing that we that I want to look at and see if we can do and I'm part of an organization called will want and it's a group of legislators across the country that oppose the amount of military spending and so we advocate at conferences meeting with our federal delegations to say we want that money we want it every year it's a different aspect it's like we want a 20% cut out of the the military budget and we want that to go into public education we want to that to go into higher education and we do that lobbying and I think that's one other path that we can take to address because you mentioned it here the military funding and I agree with you I think it's outrageous and another thing is we need a new president yeah just do like he's putting more and more and more money into you know this isn't even a conversation about cutting or moving he's proactively cutting and critical programs and putting that money into the military it's outrageous and I you know I just but I mean the fact that the voters have have voted in Burlington 55% saying we don't we don't want it here and then in Williston and South Burlington the city councils have also voted so so that would be a backbone for you to well I know but you we care and you care yeah I mean I don't even send a letter but I'm just telling you like it's just really depressing and frustrating that that some of these tools that we have aren't making difference I'm not seeing any change or any response to what we did in Burlington or South Burlington it was Winooski by the way not Wilson Winooski thank you yeah city council Winooski yes they supported it they did not support the F-35 yeah yeah but you said Williston and they did not Williston I don't think it took it up I don't know that for sure but I do know that I think they did but I hope so it'd be great and you might be right thank you for taking the time to do that yeah thank you I think we're ready but what not just happen if I could just I mean it's the elephant in the room but and I know you know so for schools for example I mean this isn't really any I'm probably just saying something you already know but the I lived down in the spring from Massachusetts area there were some large cargo military planes that were I guess did come in with the FedEx extension of the airport there and there we had some studies that showed that the very loud airplanes which of course sometimes also dropped parts but that every time we go over school or hospital it's disruptive to what's supposed to be going on there so these are actually hurting the education of children right over there in Winooski at that school yeah I think that there is a really big impact there if you look at the maps they managed to make it the line like just a fraction of an inch away from where the school is and for me so a very new resident in Browntown was in Montpelier eight years yeah I am very disheartened and disappointed by a senator Sanders disinterested in being willing to talk about this and to even consider really how it affects the quality of life for people in Brooklyn I just don't see that he's been willing to it's not a long I'm either unfortunately they right is there any none of them talk about have you had meetings with their office no nobody else no he won't need on it none of them will it's not just him no no it's like you know Peter Walsh won't although he Peter Walsh has said that he's he's when there was a discussion about who was gonna pay for noise mitigation costs and it was the part of the money to come from federal government and the communities were gonna have to fork over the Peter Walsh said he was on our side yeah and I think just one last thing about that as the spring comes along and the windows are open and people hear the sound and there are full 20 of these plans okay bombers going overhead because Lady did say to hey ladies office has said to us that if we can get all three of the congressmen together him Welch and Sanders together in one meeting he will meet so I think once things really become dire in in our communities in the spring we need to insist on having that meeting I will yeah okay I do want to just make a plug for for prop 5 ask your ask your can't in the oh and we're done with session everyone's going to be running for office and I would just ask that you hold us accountable and ask us the question about prop 5 because it's really really important especially given more more threats that are coming from Washington yeah and what's the longer name for prop 5 proposition 5 I know but what is it about just just I think we all think it was good work what you did with the recovery yeah so thank you very much thank you yeah thank you for writing me and I guess that concludes our session tonight so we'll see you in a couple weeks