 Good Easter Monday morning to you. You are watching Why In The Morning. This is your favorite breakfast show. We do this between Monday and Friday that is seven to 10 o'clock in the morning. If you do want to participate in the conversation, make sure you do follow us on social media, our Y2.5.4 channel on Twitter. The hashtag is Why In The Morning, hashtag youth and politics as it is about that time. Every Monday is at eight. You know, yes, we have the ladies and gentlemen who are passionate about governance and leadership. You still deal with us. So yes, please make sure you do slide into our DM on Facebook, Y2.5.4, on Instagram, Y2.5.4, at us called Channel. On YS TV, we have Channel 376, on Signet H24 and Star Time 54. So yes, make sure you do engage with us. So today's topic in the spirit of the religious holiday that we have. We have pastors in studio. We're going to hold here on YS.7.6. Yes, they are going to be here with us to give us a word this Easter so that, and then they can let us know their role of religion when it comes to governance in the state. You know, we've been having a lot of things happening. And in fact, a new Pew research analysis has found that 30 of the world countries, their heads of state must belong to a specific unique religious group. So we want to understand what is this about religion that affects even the kind of leaders that we elect? So without further ado, my name is Hilda Wadidi. I will allow our pastors in studio and our student leaders as well, or our young leaders as well, to introduce themselves. Let me start with Pastor Matthew. Say good morning. Good morning. My name is Pastor Matthew Ongwen from Glorious Fellowship Ministry. I'm based in Utawala. Great. My name is Jacinta Kagai. I'm a student leader at Kenyatta University and also a gender expert and specialist. Thank you. Fantastic. Now we can jump over to this other side. Good morning. My name is Sophia Bogongo from Glorious Ministry. Good morning. My name is Boaz Tanui. I am a city director, city 60 director, and I'm also a youth leader. Back from that, I just finished from Staffman University. I'm a mentor as well. Yes, yes. So it's about him we have a conversation and I wanted the flow to be balanced. Then I tried to even balance a gender so that people don't eat each other. But in the spirit of Easter, happy Easter. Yes, please let us know how you guys have celebrated your Easter really quick and briefly. And the message that you have gotten from this particular Easter season before I mentioned some of the sad stories that have come about. In my Easter, I have been working with some groups, especially in seminars, children, the youths and the whole church. And also some money work. At least to appreciate what is happening. You've been after some money work. Exactly. You don't look like it. You look very happy. But you cannot be happy without money work. Thank you. Okay, so basically for my Easter, I spent it with family. And like yesterday, I was also in a children's home in Gwangju Stusha, the Lamb of Christ. Because this time Christ reminds us that he's the reason for the season and he gave his life for us. So it's for us to share the love, just like he gave us. All right. It's for us to share the love. Okay. My Easter was so good on Friday. I went to Kolokosha. We went to talk to women there. My ministry is teaching the women and also ministry of children. So I went to Kolokosha on Friday from two to six thirty. We speak to women there and the women are so excited, asking questions. We share together the Word of God. And also on Saturday, we went to Makueni. We had a revival there with a group of intercessors. It was so powerful. We finished and we prayed for the county and we prayed for the nation and we prayed for families. And yesterday also, we went to church as grudges. Not a word. All right. Thank you. Excited to hear something about women. Sorry. That's just my mind. Let's talk about you. For me, I spent most of my time with friends. I was to go home and spend with my family. But due to an unavoidable circumstances, I couldn't go. I was also to go for a retreat with youth in my church but I couldn't go. But at the end, on Sunday yesterday, I went to church. And it was wonderful to experience the resurrection of Christ. The resurrection of Christ. Amazing. So those who do subscribe to the Christian faith as well. So now let's talk about especially the number of countries that do require some of the people they elect to positions of power to belong to a certain religion. And we just want to talk about this and the complications that this has brought about. Now, on Sunday, we had a very devastating case in Sri Lanka, which is an Islam country where we had eight explosions in the Christian facilities. And it has been associated with terrorism and the suicide bombers. And I'd just like to know from your point of view as a church, how do you feel about such things? How do you feel? Pastor Matthew. Let me begin about religion and the stats. Religion deals with the spiritual issues. And the stats borrows from the religion. Oh, the stats borrows from the religion. Exactly. Even if you see the governance from the USA to the Middle East country, Sudan, their constitution, the rules, and the regulations, they are from Genesis to the Malaysian in Dubai. So in anything that you find happening in the state, it is in the Bible. And the Bible was written many years ago. So that is why there is a lot of influence from the Bible, all the religion to the nation, to the state. And number two, religion is the light of the world. So those are the two issues that I can speak for now, but much will be spoken as we go ahead. So when what happened in Sri Lanka, because they are influenced by the spirit of the religion, there is taking place there because it's Islamic. And there is a way, there is an Isolence, believe him. And the action, they believe it's right. So that's exactly what was happening. Although, it is devastating because the Bible hates murdering. I have read the Quran, they also don't like. They don't condone such. So I don't know whether it's Islamic or it's a spirit of murder. Extreme is it. Extreme is it. Extreme is it. All right, just a little care for me. For me, you see you cannot separate religion and governance because actually religion is part of socialization. It's the stage where people get to know what they should do, the values they should uphold. And through that, we get to maybe build leaders. So religion is an institution that is very important in our country and it's very important that people get to learn religion, get to even understand other people's religion. Because by that, you won't judge people. We've seen things to do with terror and all that. It's because people have a misconception about someone's religion. And like even in our issues in our country today, where people think, you see a Muslim and you think they are terrorists. But again, if you get to understand these people, you won't just relate it with terror. See, so religion is an important aspect because it gives you, it's a spiritual thing as he said and it gives you that ground, it gives you the things you should believe in. And you know, if leaders are built in that religion, getting to learn, they'll be able to be good leaders. Because I believe religion, all religions are the essence of good and all religions should strive to do good. So you do believe, you also agree with the fact that religion is the light of the world. It's the light of the world. When you were being elected into your seat, did anybody ask you, when you asked, are you a Christian? Did it affect even your opponents if they were not of the same religion? Was it a factor? Basically, I think that's the question. Was it a factor when you were being elected? No, it wasn't a factor because I think in campus, people are beyond what religion you are. So it's not really a factor. But of course they want to do, they want to see what you want to do, of course. And also, if you relate yourself with religion, then they believe you'll do something good for them. You're not there for evil. Oh! That has brought up another Pandora. What's the first here from Sophia? I can say, I can support the way that I say that religion and government is separated. Because even we read from the whole testament, for example, the time of Nebuchadnezzar, the time he was calling the people to come and translate the dream. And even God spoke to him in a dream. But he wasn't able to know what was it, until when the post he came to translate it. So it is already misinterpreted or misused. Maybe let's say by the evil. Then now some people have come with the name of religion but they're just throwing the nation and the governance. So what I can say is these two, they are supposed to be to work together. Like now, God can speak to the president and the president may not understand what is being spoken. Then it gets somebody to come and translate. But because now we are not serious in the recent to God, we find that we will translate our own things. So those two things they go together in a right way. Then you will have peace. All right. Yes. For me, I really agree with all the panelists and I think religion is very important. It's very important because people should believe in something. And when you believe in something and those teachings that you learn from maybe your religion will help you in leading the people because people, many people are actually they believe in something. They are either Muslim, they are either Hindus, they are something. And for you to lead those people you just have to come from a certain perspective as well. And you know all these religions that teach, they teach good good practices and with leaders we need to have as well good leadership and who don't involve in all sorts of evil as she said including even corruption and such kind of things. I'm glad that Jacinta has brought that up because that's something that we need to discuss. That is the heart of the matter. We have a lot of our leaders coming to carrying religion as a what do you call it as a weapon to win campaigns. You know I'm saved I'm like this I'm like that and it comes a discernment in the public since we have such a general view of how we expect or which religion we expect our leaders to come from I'd like to hear from you out of all the hypocrisy that you have seen in this country what can you comment especially for you who has been talking to the leaders actually let me not use that same word let me first come back to you Sophia you've been talking to the women does that religion how? Who becomes a chairlady of those chaman we find that sometimes that does not come among them that does not come a big a big problem because we dealing with Christian women it doesn't come a major a major problem with them even when we are choosing they don't say this when it's coming from this and this but now when it comes and if you bring all of them together you may find some deciding to their religion and some deciding to another religion but what we're saying is in order to have good governance and leadership people need to know not to be cheated and when people come to say I'm a Christian this and this people should take time to evaluate that's discernment how do we get that discernment discernment it will come like this now like now the group of women we want we want training women to know God and even to know how they're supposed to choose without us when we train them we don't tell them go and choose Pastor Matthew or choose the other one we just train them so that giving them the qualifications we they see whom they're supposed to choose but you know when it comes to corruption and people are giving money to people they don't even think about who is good and who is bad and that is comes because of poverty now you say that when the time comes I'm not I'm not I'm not I don't know where I'll see this man let me take these other feelings go and buy for my children something so the problem is poverty it brings people to go and choose the people who they are not even want to choose also they might know that somebody is bad but because of circumstances they'll be like ah no let me just do everything first time Matthew let's hear from now that corruption has been brought up later we began by saying this leadership is a point and piker point number one but if we look at the example even in the Bipand in our nation I think I may speak I fear for the president yes please do our president for Tenyatta some people maybe because of tribal Mejia Kenya was divided in tribal and it began from religion when the pastor said I'll go home to my people bishops I'll deal with my own people forgetting the Bible says there is no Jew there is no pick we are a nation of Kenya that we deal with all people that is what divided the nation remember this when the church is sick the nation is sick and everything begins from the altar when we raise an altar that is a church that is a pulpit whatever that we speak if we allow the politics of division of the nation come to the altar it will affect the whole nation now I think some people are advising the president in the right way and when you look at this you will find it's spiritual but not political the decision that is making if it were political Kenya could have been polarized completely remember in the Bible there were two nations divided and Kenya could have gone that way so the handshake has brought the kind of the unity to the Kenyans now when we talk about religion you hear the pastor saying our people our people but other tribes are also our people because we are the leaders of them so if only a church can avoid the politics of our people and we go back to our mandate our mandate is to unite the people and bring the people together if the church could be in the forefront doing what we were doing with the rider I'm sure Kenya would have the right to govern us but now the churches are a bit sick and we are trying to pray for recovery number two it is God who chooses leaders we can do our campaign we can pray we can do whatever we do but God will change the circumstances within a second and people may not believe they can say they can say there's going stalling or what but I believe if God also did somebody together remember soul God rejected soul when the devil came from nowhere and he became a king God rejected a harp what happened so when we look at the Bible clearly whatever that was happening in the Bible is happening in the world today and it's God who really chooses her leader we can go to election but when God says if it's on soul will be a leader it will be on soul will be a leader and we have to respect that in 2017 we had prayers when the country was going somewhere when people in fact it's when I realized Kenya can pray oh they really sacrificed to pray for a leader the outcome was God gave us a leader okay God gave us a leader please let us know let us know if you believe that this is correct you know there's something I'm glad that you talked about how the state follows the church and the or the church should take the forefront fast before now the state makes some decisions so the other day we were having this conversation about lowering the age of consent to 16 for young ladies and the church was acting arms against saying no, no, no, no so I would just like to hear we're not saying anything we're not reacting anything I'd like to hear from you when does the church stand and when do you stand as an individual when it comes to that particular case yeah, go ahead please and take the mic it's okay for me I would want to say as a person I don't think it's right for us to lower the age of consent if you've seen if you've realized the people who are seniors and below most of them are high school kids they're still kids they're still kids and when you're in high school you really don't want to to be given too much responsibility to choose by yourself some things because you will end up making very big mistakes wow, I'm so surprised that's coming even when even people who have gone above the age of 18 they still make a lot of mistakes we still make a lot of mistakes and we I'm not saying that we should at least increase to 20 or something but at least we should realize that with the age of 16 that person is still young that person is very very young so the consent that's when you don't have to okay in fact this is my area so really interested you see like you said the church is important since they also influence on the laws that are made and they were against that and for me I support that because I support the church going against the age of consent being lower to 16 at this time we are struggling with things like gender based violence teenage pregnancies in school as in how will they even regulate to ensure that these children are safe we've had cases of where teachers go with their students I don't know to retreat and then they have they abuse these children and you see when we are lowering it's like we are telling them it's okay to do that I'm sure even us who may be hard people are saying like they justify it saying you know some of us even had sex when we were 16 when we were 15 but who is proud of their sex encounter at that time they were actually saying that the courts the courts had the issue of unfair unfair unfair victims who have been accused of unfair someone is 17 she has agreed then the father finds out and then the boy and then the boy says to the issue of being unfair so Pastor Mati please handle that other area I don't want to speak that with a lot of concern when the moral of the nation starts things will happen like this let's begin we allowed the parliamentarians to pass the role of polygamists polygamy that is where things start to remain wrong and that is why we have problem in families now the church did not prosper on this everything was silent but look now the effects down the line we have forgotten that that the marriages are on the brink they came my dress my choice the rape cases the rape cases that Jacinta said went high that is why we have a lot of rape cases the church kept quiet and in fact a capubali it allowed it to continue even in the church they dress away the ones instead of the church paying the lights now the moral life has decayed now let's come know that they are it I am a parent in fact I am blessed with three girls so I am a father of three girls now let me say something here the Bible says bring up a child in the ways of the Lord and the wind is grown up it can live in that ways we are brought up the same way that's why we are what we are and I am proud of my parents and of my spiritual leaders but now tell me this why do we want children under the age of 16 to start sex okay at 16 at 16 that's what I am saying at 16 their brain is not mature can she digest that kind of life in fact even in a marriage we say from 22 years and above is when somebody has become mature to digest the things now for instance they start at 16 and all of a sudden they are pregnant because we are allowing that now these children to engage into commercial sex so after this do we have a generation we don't have a generation we don't have and if you look at the age of 16 they fear pregnant more than even HIV that's a heavy one for my father of three girls so here we need some help here so my guess my choice has also contributed to one old road what can you please comment on this before we move on what I can say about the rowing it is it is not good and we are gone because people are supporting that they may be the people who are living young girls and they want to aware these things because there is no normal person who can accept a child girl or boy to start sex in 16 years old in high school we will have chaos because even in high school children they will do whatever they want to do now they fear because there will not be there will be jail because you have to bring a guide to bring that but now when it is going to be roared we are going to have chaos as first I said the country we are going in a very bad situation because for example you look to even can say families I have a family three girls and three boys what do I think another he is a young one who is 21 years old the other one is a young other so what I am saying here is if we lower like that we are going to bring chaos in families right away now there is a lot of problems in families the way passers say that manning so many wives so many children and themselves they are ready one another so third one I say I support I support the church saying that it is wrong to do that to me my dress my choice it was also around but as Christians we need to know how to dress we need to be our brothers keepers for example myself when I pass and I find me a guy who dressed so bad I just greet how are you they find badly what I am saying badly she can put a dress which is so small and even the rest of the body is also also all he has a skirt which has a street all the way then I just say hi how are you then the red smile I say he addressed does not look good you can do something he says mama do that so if we can go that we can train them how they suppose to dress because if you go and say you are dressing so badly this person will not even listen to you you become very defensive you have something to say but also I think I have a different view on that then my dress my choice campaign was against women being stripped stripped on the streets because of how they dress and campaigning against it and ensuring that ladies can move freely how they are I disagree that really it has contributed to the immorality of the society but I would say you know like she said when you cancel someone you cancel them with love but you know when someone goes to church and she is dressed somehow and you are like that I believe by the time maybe you are growing in your faith you will even be uncomfortable why am I dressing this way but then again it is not a reason for me to walk in the streets dressed in my wear and someone someone is like now I will be raped and I am a victim because maybe I was dressed this way so we need to teach our boys how to behave not only telling the girls in fact most of the rape cases the girls were not dressed badly people even raped grandmothers little children so they are dressed inappropriately it is violence can I comment on that the Bible says God hates the nakedness of a person for real yes they let you go straight and speak about this you see we cannot cover the truth now the psychology I have done that a bit of it the men they are like electricians switch off switch off I am speaking deeper things but I believe you can understand when a child walked naked a girl there are some parts of the body that are very sensitive yeah oh god how no how no what have I done here back to the government so now a lot of very powerful white leaders known all over have been accused of secretly belonging to a cult and there has been this notion that you must be involved in some kind of evil or some kind of witchcraft for you to attain certain power a certain level of power and money and people attributed this to the incident where was it Jesus in his temptations when he was offered the world and he was bowed down to satan and what have you and ok that is according to the Christian faith please I would like to be sensitive to it that is just according to that according to that faith but yes that is where the story stems from apparently the money and power has been given to the devil so those who want it have to go in that direction money money and power has been attributed to evil like you have to go to this if you want this much of power and money so I would like to hear from you yes in fact some of the churches have actually been accused including one very famous who was also accused of vocality they imagined so I would like to hear from you based on how much influence he has over people I would like to hear from you do you think that is true a lot of politicians say in Kenya also been accused of witchcraft do you think it is true can you not say this who is the creator of all the things that we say is it God of the satan it is God the Bible says to God and I repeat the first statement I said leadership is appointed by God now when we talk about every pastor's wife is associated with devil worship allow me to say it is total love it is a lie joining devil worship or whatever they can call illuminati is a choice to somebody but witchcraft and whatever is even in the Bible if you read from Genesis all the leaders were going through that some of them but not all of them in fact they never succeeded unless those that God appointed look at soul why did God reject him until he had to consult the mediums over the dead and God rejected him that is when David took over he says when wicked leader leads the people cry so the reason that I am talking about it is like this we were h-mates we were classmates and all of a sudden you have gone higher than me what do you expect from me I can say to defend myself you have gone to illuminati maybe you have worked hard to console yourself and saw people that saw the soul as God has reached in a wrong way but just wait a minute even pastors start to say when you find a pastor you start to recharge together with by God because it is favor favor is getting an approval from God all the grace when you start growing people come depending on how you pray what do others say if it is a pastor like me and I am in no day war more than me what do I say forget about those, they are illuminati but is it true not really true I like that, you know we only have 3 minutes so I really need us to make quick comments on this so what I can say it is not true that the devil is the one who has power and money because that was a temptation which he was giving to Jesus I can talk about a man called Job he was the richest person until when the devil went to empty him so we cannot say that every person who was the richest he has gone, got and do from the evil evil is there and also gone places there are people as we pray so a good example is the example Job he was the richest person and also he was tempted when he was the richest person people have been blaming Satan for nothing but yet the other ones who are actually evil I will not say that money is all the way good because sometimes when you get a lot of money and you want power many times you will tend to do some things which are not good which are considered evil which now you will say that you have started worshipping money and power and when you start doing that you start doing maybe killing people maybe start you start doing so many things but think thinking about you as an illusionist yet you are worshipping money so those things that you are doing the character, the corruption you are engaging in now worshipping that money oh so that is thank you boys, Jessica can we have yours basically I would say that it's not that all money and power comes from the evil the fact that we have some cults and all we have some people really going to cults for them to get money which is also a bad thing according to my spiritual psychology we learn that these things are just there to drain you they are there to manipulate you and all that but again not all riches comes from the evil they are people who really worked hard to be where they are and those false prophets there should be some regulations that people are not led in the wrong way and when you see these things watch out just like one word demonic riches they don't last long and they are a lot of betas but God given riches lasts for long thank you God given riches lasts for long and those enormous backfires thank you very much thank you very much for tuning into this episode Easter Monday I don't know if any of you are joining government in height of sex estate and also citizens my name is Hilda Adidi thank you very much for coming to see me today on an Easter, thank you thank you very much my name is Hilda Adidi please do not go anywhere Man Talk is coming up next