 I'm Brad Town, to my right is Jeremy Hansen. Our administrator tonight is Tom Badowski and Diane Isabel, our town treasurer is present. Let's see here. Additions or changes to the agenda? Far Company is here, so I think they'd like all 10 minutes to talk about some equipment. I was suggesting right after what was the 715 slot there to get right after the planning commission. Okay. And then one change, I had it on the 735 item. It should have read approval of bond council agreement for sewer project rather than what it. Okay. So public comment, hearing none. Treasurer's report, Diane? The address we hear October 1st and 2nd, which is the Tuesday and Wednesday of this past week, they found a couple entries that I had to make, so I've made those. It went very well. Still, they'll be working, this was their field work, so they could hear for those two day and a half actually. So they'll still be working on it. They told me they plan on having it complete by the beginning of December. And I know that's important because we need to have it for the end of the report. So they don't find, they don't think there's gonna be any issues without whatsoever. I did get the draft of September 19th meeting, and I noticed in it that there was nothing for the approval of licensing permits and vouchers. So the last time you had a meeting, you didn't approve that. Of course, I didn't know that at the time. Okay. So a lot, when you do, I guess, once for tonight, they could do those as well so everything would be in the middle. So we did it, but we did it after the executive session. Ah, okay. It was, it just didn't make it into the minutes. So Orca had already left by that point. So that motion should be reflected in the minutes. It's just not on there. Okay, so I can go ahead and put it in the notes. Yeah, we started off on all that. Ah, yes, we did. Thank you. Yeah, so yeah, if you're looking, if your records, you should see our signatures on all of the paperwork. Okay. But yeah, it was just, Yes, I did see that. We just had to, we juggled things a bit and people were still reviewing stuff. Okay, so that works for me, and that's all I've got. Okay. Okay, thank you very much, Leia. Thank you for bringing that to our agenda. Approvals of license, permits, and vouchers. I haven't looked at them, you should go to the rules. Yeah. Okay, we've looked at them. Yeah. Yeah, look forward to it. Go ahead. We'll have to approve general fund accounts for payable warrant number 20G06, which checks 19609 through 19645, and the amount of $88,835.95. Also, payroll warrant number 20-07 for payroll from September 15th, 2019, through September 28th, 2019, the amount of $47,090.65. Also, reconciled September 2019, bank statements for the general fund Super Commission and Water Division. Also, September 2019, general journal entries, and September tax admin adjustments. The second motion. Eve, we're in the discussion. All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Planning commission update on the Newtown Center. So, Dave Huber's also here. He's on the planning commission. We went to visit the South Burlington Project Director and looked at what's happening up there in the Newtown Center, and it was very impressive. And I would encourage everybody to go up and look. The Market Street is now connected from Gorset Street to Hinesburg Road. They've done, I had no idea. We met at the park, and I didn't even know there was a park there. There's an 80-acre piece of property in there that they've got, I think they've got $1.2 million, and it's a nice community piece there. Like, it's a green spot. And one of the reasons that they did that first was because it was something that benefited the community, and so it sort of gets people involved and gets them on board a little bit. But anyway, the overall, it was nice to see one of the other things that I thought was really interesting was they had to put stormwater ponds in for Market Street, and they did it beautifully. Instead of just making a stormwater pond, they landscaped it, they were gonna put benches in, they have public art in it, and it was actually a nice place that you'd wanna visit. So it made me actually think about our town center area and the fact that there's wetlands and there's wooded areas. And so rather than being negative, sort of taking that piece and turning it into a positive by making a nice place where you could maybe, there's a bridge over the wetlands, you can walk through it, you can make trails. And she said there's a lot of funds available for that type of project if you apply for grant funds. She was Alana, she was the program manager. Yeah, yeah. Dave, go jump in any time, but Dave and I went, Tom went, and Dana, yeah. And it's just nice to see, I do wanna, one of the things that I think is important to know is that they got the designation in 2010. And they didn't hire, I don't think they hired Alana until 2012. And so she has made a huge amount of progress. And it really, she's sort of coordinates everything and got everything on board. The actual money for the street was, they got a grant for that in 2004. Basically nothing, sort of nothing happened. And so she got that on board and got that going. And now there was a housing, an elder housing. Which is already hard to talk about. Building up and then the low income, there was a, That's on a flip side of that map is more of the detail what it looks like. Now the ones in yellow highlights are under construction now. And you can see the balance of the buildings, there's 13 buildings all in all. And this is just one piece of their new town center. And the part that Carl was talking about is down here, it's off the map. But you can see it. Yeah, it's adjacent to what they've identified as the town center. But it's nice for sort of the community around that area. So basically we wanted to come to you just to give an update on what we think we need to do to work toward our town center. And I think we're gonna, we always do the grant, we put the grant in and thank you for the funds and matching funds in the grant and the additional funds. I appreciate the approval of that and hoping we get that and we can really move forward. It's a much bigger task than I, we realized initially in making this sort of master plan. So one of the things that we will start doing even probably before we know is trying to meet with the landowners, get them all together, start thinking about how, you know, what types of things we would need, where we need connections, where we maybe can put connections to paint turnpike, even if it's just pedestrian. But it's, it's, it will take a lot of work. But I really think that there's some momentum over there with that housing that's already been proposed and then potentially new housing. And we'd like to just make sure we keep that going. Yeah, in touching upon what Carla was talking about for the pedestrian access, you know, it was pretty encouraging to see that they could have a very walkable street, namely Market Street connected to or adjacent to that park. And then up here, crossing 89 is the proposed pedestrian bridge that will be connecting, you know, the side of Burlington over by the Sheridan Hotel, so that people would be able to walk across 89 safely and be able to access the park as well as the rest of this new town center, which does have ample opportunities for shopping and then elderly housing and a lot of other things that it seems like we would like to possibly work into further for ourselves here in Burlington. And when Jacob first suggested from ACCD that we go to South Burlington, you know, we were all a little bit like, well, South Burlington is really different, you know, because they have a lot of resources, but the project director was actually like, no, you guys are really similar, you know, we're situated between, what, Mary and my player. So it's a smaller scale, but she really thought there was a lot of positives about our situation here. So it would be great to have somebody like her. She's, she definitely, I think a lot of it probably wouldn't have happened had they not hired her. That might not be as easy for us, but it does help to have a champion, someone that's working, that's what they're working on. And ideally that person sort of supports themselves through grants, at least with somewhat, at least, you know, and some with some commitment from the town. What I do think down the road, we have to think about having someone be in charge, sort of that coordinates everything and puts it together, but that's down the road. Did they have a sense of like a cost-benefit analysis, like how much the town had put into it on their own and like what they were expecting to see in terms of like tax revenues and whatnot? I believe that was a big part of her job. They gave, there's a spreadsheet for it, we can, we can. If you could send it out to you guys, you can see that. This, the whole paving of Market Street, eventually was from an underground utilities, the wetlands issue. It was all federal funds. So somebody went out and got to do that. So I, sitting where I sit, I want to strongly encourage the select board to in this next round of budgeting, consider budgeting monies for this director's position. And it's, I really think it's the keys to the kingdom to make this project go. We've got, the town has a lot of momentum right now. We have a project going over on the campus at the mall now, the 98 unit senior housing, talking about another 60 unit residential project. We've, the public's work board is just had a meeting with the mall and the senior housing project to extend the water line through that property now. So there's a lot of good things happening, but I really think what needs for this project to come to fruition is a dedicated person. It's just, it's more than what we can do with the staff. And is this person in South Burlington a municipal employee or are they a contractor? She's a municipal employee. And it was very encouraging to hear her say, when I started off, I was making not a lot of money. My price, because I was right out of school and right off my first project, I came a little cheap. And then now she has experience. I think she's 12 years into this project. And I'm sure she could go and be in high demand somewhere else, but she's already gained all this knowledge on this one project. And if she encouraged us to take a look and see if we can find somebody who wanted to cut their teeth on something that is a long-term project, then stick with it. It's exciting. That was a response when I asked if we could clone her on somebody that was affordable. But seriously, and I do think it does take the right person. She's very personable. It takes somebody that can really, one of the first things she had to do, there was this land that they had bought in 1970, in the 70s, this park. She said it was being used primarily by the residents right in one neighborhood for dog walking and that they had a schedule so they could let their dogs run free and not be leashed. And so when they started to work on this to be the park for the broader community, I said that must have been a hard conversation because they'd been used to using that for dozens of years. So, and she's somebody that can handle that kind of stuff. So I do think it's the right, you need to have the right person, but I think that person's very important to the project. But we, anyway, we were very excited. We hope that, it's like we're supportive of this project and we are going to do what we can to move forward a little bit even before we find out about the grant. We're gonna start meeting with the conservation commission looking at the map, seeing if they have some ideas about some things we could start looking at and maybe even start applying for grants for this type of park trail thing. And as soon as we know about the grant, hopefully we can get somebody on board to do this master plan. And we would like to, you know, keep us standing a couple of minutes on your agenda every time you meet just so we can keep you apprised of what's going on. That sounds very wise. Thanks for all of your efforts, everything you folks are doing. If you're up there, you should definitely stop by. Yeah, yeah. But yes, but I think that was a really big step forward to get the municipal planning grant in and hopefully, you know, the document was huge, but I'm sure for you and I really do appreciate that. You don't know what the matching funds were for all this, do you? They've generated a TIP district up there now. And so I think they're using TIP monies for a lot of this going forward. They have the one developer has come in and agreed to do these buildings. Three, I said two are under construction now. The third one is on school property. So I think she said this building was four-story. I thought she said it was a $25 million building. This one's under construction too. Very similar, $20, $25 million building. So you multiply it nearly that by another 12 buildings. You could see what the grand list impact is on that. They, the town is paying her salary, of course, but I think she generates a good bit of monies that otherwise would have, you know, like the federal grant for the road, the town didn't spend anything for that. And then additionally, this was pretty interesting. On the backside of this map, right down here, this was a different developer and they developed, they developed these houses as pretty much like, it's a triplex essentially. And it's really cool. I kind of wish they had something like this when we were in school. But you know, it's marketed for a younger professional type of person who wants to rent out a room. So each one of these is three separate units and each one would be for a young professional person who wants to rent out space within their individual unit there. And so just by virtue of having the proposed construction and new town center here, they would attract sort of a unique population with affordable housing who was looking to start their life off, you know, and given that there's Norwich with the college and Montpelier and everything that visiting nurses and the hospital. It sounded like they were being rented as fast as he was building them. The grass hasn't even been planted yet. Or selling them, I should say. I truly don't have enough affordable housing. And this, I mean, this is market housing. I don't want to get confused. It's market rate housing, but it's occupied and it was very quickly occupied. So it's a very impressive project that I encourage you, it's like we're members, to go up and take a look at it with what the possibility is here for downtown Berlin. And I think we're lucky that because we do have, we don't have a lot of landlords there. You know, it's a small amount of landlords that are at this point at least committed to the town center. So I really think this is doable. And so we're pretty excited. Oh, it's like in a chair. In this, did they have like bike paths and whatnot through here, or is it just walking paths? Bike paths with bike racks. Bike racks were put in after the bike paths because there was no one for people to put their bikes. Yeah. And these are very wide streets that they put in here. It's not your conventional street. It's very wide. It's very pedestrian friendly. I just would behoove everybody just to take a drive up there and take a look at it. It's going to be, it's quite a neat thing that they have going on there. One question I haven't always had is in terms of the town center, has it ever been looked at or is incorporated for like a large daycare facility per se? Has that ever been considered? It's interesting that the second housing you project going in there first floor now is just thought to be going to be a daycare center. Nice, very great. And actually one of the things that we will do when we, part of the master plan process is to talk to the community and say, what do you want to see in this town center? And so I think that's a really important part. And I think that's a, I think we want meeting space, some green space, and so it's a nice little breakfast cafe, I think there's a lot of things that could draw people in on a regular basis. Yeah, so those are the things we'll be working on when we work on the master plan. Because when I think about the fact that we don't have enough affordable housing, I also think about the fact that the affordability of daycare is difficult. Yeah, across the board, throughout the community. Yeah, definitely. Okay, anything else? No, that's it, I guess. Thank you. Okay, thank you very much for being here. Fire department? Do you even make copies of it? Yeah, we have copies of it. Good evening. Good evening. Joe Stom, the president of the corporation, Berlin Fire Department, this is deputy chief van, chief van Eyderstein, the chief was unable to make it with a personal illness going on in the family. So he apologizes. What we're here to talk about today is our fleet, being our trucks, our pumpers, our tankers, our power. And where they currently are as far as their life and possible replacement schedule. And so in the funding that might go with that. So Keith, which I talk about. So before we get into any more any specifics about the trucks, there's a couple important background considerations to think about. One of them is a group called Insurance Services Office, ISO. They're a company that evaluates fire protection in communities and gives it a rating. The fire department contributes about 50% to that rating. The water supply 40% and communications about 10%. And in the fire department section, the status of the trucks, the condition of the trucks weighs significantly. So if we were to have problems or losses with our trucks, it could negatively affect the insurance ratings of the community in our town, both residential and a special commercial. So we're always thinking about that and how can we help out this town and save the residents and the businesses in that aspect. The other thing is a group called National Fire Protection Association, NFPA. They develop the standards that the fire service lives by essentially. Among that is the standards of maintenance and replacement of trucks. NFPA 1911 is the number that it talks about among other things, replacement of trucks. They recently went from X amount of years you should get rid of this truck to evaluate the condition of the truck and make the determination as to if you need to replace it or not. So. Which is a better way to do it. Which is a much better way to do it. So getting into that, we have six vehicles. Two of them are straight engines. One of them is our rescue, which is like the highway rescue, but it's also an engine that has a pump in it. It is used for fire suppression as well. Then we have our tower and then we have a tanker for backup water supply and just utility truck, which is a F 350. Engine two is our oldest of the engines. It's a 1989 truck. We financed it ourselves. We bought it from Claremont, New Hampshire in about 2012. We financed it through VSU and the note is paid right now. The condition is to put it in a word, it's out of service right now. The biggest issue is you're supposed to test your pump for flow every certain amount of time and it has failed its last pump test. We are trying to do some maintenance to improve that and we're actually pump testing all four of our trucks that have pumps, we're pump testing them tomorrow to see how they do, but we are still very concerned about engine two. The other issues with the engine two is the kingpins on the front and the suspension in general. We had the clouds down in Berry evaluate it for us and they basically said that the truck was not safe to drive due to the kingpins and suspension. With those two items in mind, we took the truck out of service this summer. Did you get an estimate to make the revictor hairs on those? We have looked at the estimates, what was those numbers Joe? We looked at the estimates, we also looked at the estimated value of the vehicle. The value of the vehicle, it's a 30 year old truck and it's anywhere between 9,000 and maybe 18,000. The book value of the truck. If you look at comparables on used fire truck websites, there isn't about that range. And these repairs for how much? Did you sense what the repairs did to the kingpins? We didn't have a complete list of the repairs with the estimates at the time. They're still slowly coming in. But what we're looking at is about half the value of the truck. The other thing we're looking at is, so we put half the value of the truck into it to repair it, what's the next thing going to be going? It's a 30 year old truck. How much are we going to put into that? What is, just like NFPA says, what is the condition of this vehicle? Is it really worth trying to keep on the road right now? I don't know your business. So is engine number two, like the backup to engine number one already? I mean, does it go out on every call or how often do they, you know? We have two stations, we have the one here and then we have the one at Riverton. We have engine one and one station, engine two and the other station. So it is, and we rotate them back and forth to keep the wear on them. It's a primary unit. It's a primary unit, yes. Just to note that when it failed first pump test, we did send it down to McLeod's for a flush, a radiator flush, because the reason it failed is because the engine overheated or was overheated. We then since did a second pump test and the results were the same. We have, we have sent it down. We've done some of the maintenance to ourselves and we have sent it down to McLeod's for some other maintenance. And tomorrow we'll be pump testing to see where we're at. The something to note when you get into the ISO, one of the things that they look at is the, how much water do you need to pump fire flow to put out a fire of certain sizes? And they heavily look at your testing records. And if they see that a pump has failed its pump test, they give it 0% credit toward your fire flow. In other words, it just doesn't exist as far as they're concerned. So that's one of our also major considerations right there. And I believe the last time we had an ISO rating was right after the water system came in and the water system improved. I'm not, improved our rating by like a half a point. And they also evaluated us in May as well. They came and talked to us as well. So that ISO rating is good for everybody in the towns. It's a town-wide rating. It's a town-wide rating, but they do give it certain areas with a certain distance away from a dry hydrant gets this rating, certain distance away from station gets this rating, farther out it gets a lower rating. They do get fairly specific where that is, but the water supply and the fire department will give you kind of like a base rating and you can't improve beyond that if the fire department doesn't have this capacity. So, any more questions on engine two at the moment? So engine one is our other primary engine. It's a 1993 truck. So it's only four years, nor it's 27 years old right now. We have several major components that we're being concerned on right now. Among them is the electrical system and the wiring harness in the truck. And the other thing is the pump has water seals called packings that are around the transmission area. And our pump maintenance technician has told us basically the next time we need to replace those, we have to remove the transmission away from the pump to replace them, which is some major cost for us. It's not gonna be a cheap repair. When is that gonna happen? It could happen tomorrow and it could happen five years from now. Packings, the packings we have in it right now have some life, but when those packings get used up and get to their tightest position, we'll have to replace them. And that's when we have to talk about dropping a transmission to fix it. It has passed its pump tests, so we're not concerned about the flow for that one. However, looking into what are we gonna do with replacing the trucks? When you look at purchasing a new truck, it's a process that starts with us deciding what we want for a truck, putting it out for a bid. Once we award the bid, the manufacturer can take up to 18 months to build a truck and send it to us. So we're talking, it could be two years before we can get a new truck in the station. So that's why we're looking at the replacement of engine one and starting that process soon. And that's because it's still usable, it's still okay, it's passing its test and it's serviceable, so there's no impending doom, unlike engine two. Engine one is our number two priority. Engine two is our number one priority and we're considering it immediate replacement right now. What we're planning on replacing it with is actually a used vehicle instead of a new vehicle. A couple of considerations for that is we can get a used vehicle in short order to get this town back up to the fleet status that it normally has. And the other thing is getting replacing engine one with the new vehicle, replacing engine two with the used vehicle. Since they're similar age right now we can get the age offset so we can get into a more offset cycle of replacing vehicles, which will be a lot easier for everybody to swallow. Yeah, rather than having two on top of each other. Exactly. So is there a market for engine two if it goes down to rent one while the town considers options? I mean, can you run a dump truck? I don't know, can you run a fire truck? Is there folks that do that? There are people that do that, yes. The biggest, usually leasing, you can lease, you can short term lease. Usually I hear that mostly with aerial apparatus towers rather than engines. I don't know the availability of renting an engine short term, honestly, Lord, we can look into that. It's something you may want to look at in case this, the engine two is gone tomorrow. If it's 18 month lead time or the price tag of a used one is impalatable to the town, it's something that you can fall back on until you get a plan here that's... So I think it's probably worthwhile. I mean, I heard this pitch earlier today. It's so kind of have a decent understanding of what's going on. It probably makes sense to go through talk about the tower, talk about the other vehicles and then explain what your kind of proposed approach to this is. I think the renting option is probably a good one. And in terms of getting something right, getting something like much sooner, that might be a good bridge. Okay, the tower is a... The frame of it is a 1979 truck. It got refurbished by Hanover Fire Department in 1991. It's in decent shape right now. We had the equivalent to a pump test as an aerial certification for that tower and it just got recertified aerial. Those aerial certifications are insurance company likes to see them every couple of years. You look at NFPA, they want it done every year. So... The... However, it is 40 years old and it has some important systems. Our electric generator on it for the lights. The PTO, which the PTO basically drives the aerial, the ladder portion itself. They're getting real sensitive and tender. It's becoming tender to work with. It's the next one, it's the number three priority for replacement for us. We haven't gone into detail about exactly what we're gonna do for replacement on it yet. That's still open to discussion. Then we look at the rescue, which is what I talked about earlier. It can be a fire pumper and it can be a rescue for car accidents. It's a 2003 truck. It's in good shape right now. We've worn our major repairs on it. We had some gas tank issues. There is also a fuel tank. Yeah. And I think we did some work on the hydraulic pump and on the fuel, the foam. But it's going strong right now. So that's got some good life on it. That one in 2003 was financed through the bonding process in the town. The town bonded for it. If I remember right, the bond was done in 2011. It's paid off right now. And then there's the tanker, a 3000 gallon tanker which supplies water, fires. It's a 2007 truck. It's in very good shape as well. We haven't had any major issues, just a few minor issues here and there. We financed that one by going to the Assistance to Firefighters Grant, the federal rank program that started up after 9-11. And that financed that truck about 70% for us. And we took a note out with the credit union and for the remaining 30% and have paid that one off. And then the last one is a utility vehicle, which is an F-350. Bought it in 2011. We financed it through a note as well. That note's been paid off. And we don't see any major issues with that right now. How many miles are in a 28,000 or so? I think it's somewhere around 32,000. So 30,000 miles for a 2011. It doesn't get a lot of use, not like your regular passenger water bottle. What are you looking at in terms of the cost of replacing engine two and how much do you have to put toward it? And do you have any grants that you're looking at? Good question. I'll turn it over to Joe for me. Funding. So replacement schedule. What we need to do is we need to replace engine two in short order and sound service. There are companies out there that have used vehicles. It's much like going to use dealer a lot. And depending on where these vehicles are coming from, they could be suitable for the Northeast. Okay, we have a lot of things you gotta look at. And based off of miles and hours, there are a few out there that would work. We have seen a few and those do go quite quickly. Have talked to the credit union. And I think the price range as far as a used vehicle would be somewhere around the $200,000 mark, no more than 225 is what the corporation allowed us to look at. The vehicles of which we have been looking at, and like I said, they go quite quickly. You're looking at something that's about $150 to $170,000. These are 14, 15, 16 year old vehicles. You're looking, if you look at a brand new vehicle or a brand new engine, you're gonna be looking at anywhere between, could be easy, $350 to $450,000 brand new. So like I said, we did talk to the credit union and we were okay to go through with up to 200,000 out of 12 year note. And that would cost us somewhere around $1,900 a month. What interest would it be? I can't remember what she said, just above prime and that's somewhere around the 5% mark right now. She believes it's less now than it was when I first started talking to her. Because I don't know if it's comfortable, but the public support just got a 2.75 from rural development, rural development. I don't know if they do this kind of financing or not, but the U.S. rural development doesn't, but there's the other portion of USDA and he said they're up in the office, what, up in St. Jay? Up in St. John'sbury, yeah. And so we have a gentleman who's working on that and the USDA does have grants out there available. It has to do a lot with the income of your community and a lot to do with the community. So very city just received a grant, a $50,000 grant that detains the pain. So that was for an ambulance, I do believe. Yes, I know the town of Berlin as a whole would, for the sewer loan, would not have qualified for a USDA grant. But if this engine was servicing just a section of town that you think that may have a lower income, what you can do is an income survey of the residents of that town and if that proves, and we did that for the water, for the water project, the water project ended up getting a couple million dollars of a multi-million dollar project in your aunt. So you may look at an income survey, if you could say it's serving this population of town. That's something that Jerry's familiar with. Okay. That's great. Jerry is the one who's looking into the USDA for us. Excellent. So our, yes, our thought and our schedule would be to try to move forward as quickly as we could to replace engine two. And if come March town meeting going to the town for bond on the replacement of engine one, that being said, if it did pass, you're still looking at over 18 months. So you're looking at almost two years from now before you'd even be replacing engine one. You'd also be two years before you spend the money. Exactly. But that process needs to, obviously needs to start. We need to have a verification that we can draw the money and have the bond. Right. Ready to rock. It's a two year process. And I think the other thing that you guys made clear to me earlier is that the reason that they would buy a 15 year old truck to replace engine two is because it's cheaper. It's much more reasonably available in a short period of time. And then replacing engine one with a new truck is that you have a new truck and a 15 year old truck rather than having these, again, like I've noted before, these two trucks that have essentially the same age and you have to replace them at the same time. We don't want to be in the situation of having to replace two bits of apparatus at the same time, which is exactly where we stand right now. And then looking at staggering somewhere in there, five years or whatever, the latter truck, the Tower One, which you didn't mention, but because Berlin has a commercial presence and has some large buildings, the only way that the fire department can reach those buildings is by using that truck. The primary reason that we have our Tower truck or aerial truck is the commercial area on the hospital. Do we need it for residential areas? No, does it help for residential areas? Absolutely, but it's the large commercial buildings. It's the hospital. It's those areas that we really are required, basically, to have an aerial device. Absolutely. And when you're getting back to that ISO, when you get to them, you can have agreements in place for neighboring communities that have those apparatus, you know, in the very city in Montpelier, but they don't give you 100% credit for that apparatus because it's not yours. You can't be guaranteeing that it's responding when needed. So us having it, we get the 100% credit, rather than a partial credit. And then looking at a replacement for that, maybe five years, I think, you said something like, is that right? That's, yeah, you know, it's gonna be down the road. You know, a new replacement for that. You're somewhere between 700,000 to a million. So, you know, for a brand new vehicle. That's a brand new vehicle. So when you were talking about going to the credit union, that was your corporation, though. Yes, correct. So, help me, I apologize, I'm just ignorant on, how do you guys get your financing? How do you pay that note? What do you guys? We pay it through the time meeting, they vote on our budget. Do you approve of our budget? That's how we're creation. Yeah, so, you know, we have limited fundraising on our own, our regular annual fundraising is the amount of... So it's town money. It's town money. It's town money. Oh, okay. It's town money, yeah. And the bank does look at that and they know it comes from the town. We currently have somewhere around 117,000, just under, yeah, just under $120,000 available. No, 110, no, 110. 110, yeah. We have, we established a capital replacement fund a few years ago. And that's part of our regular budget. And we were putting $20,000 a year or have been putting $20,000 a year into it. And the reason for that capital replacement fund and getting a little bit from the town every year to put in there is exactly why we're here right now. Right now it's at $110,000. That being said, we don't wanna use it all on one vehicle. We need to strategize and how much we're gonna use on what for that. So have you heard our towns creative on raising monies? Because you mentioned this tower unit it's for the commercial. Is there a special taxing district that can be established for, you know, for... So one of the things that we talked about on the call was the possibility of reaching out to these organizations that are gonna be most served by the tower and say, hey, can you help us out? I mean, this is really for you. But yes, towns certainly do that. Towns also will do things like local option taxes and say we're going to use the proceeds from that which comes from the commercial sector and plow that into specifically into replacing the tower which, you know, if we looked at, you know, the amount of local option tax that's possibly available over the course of five years it would probably end up still not being quite enough to pay for a new tower, but I would say it gets you up. Gets you something pretty far along the way there. Well, and we don't necessarily think we'll be getting a new tower. Yeah, of course. That was the, you know, the wow part. Yeah, our used vehicles out there. There are quality used aerials out there. Is our need for a new, do we actually need a new tower or can we get away with a used tower? It's a question that we have to address. So, but on the other hand, because those don't get as much use, they have a much longer lifespan. As I understand, there's fewer moving parts. When NFPA used to give you numbers for life spans of vehicles instead of quality, they gave a longer number, about 10 years longer for aerial trucks. So like 30 for engines and 40 for towers. Yeah. But they, but then it doesn't exist anymore. It's all quality based now. So what I think I was, I'm hearing from these guys is that they're looking to the select board, they're looking to us because we're effectively writing the checks when we're, I mean, when we're voting for these things at town meeting and while we don't budget for them directly, you know, making sure that we're on board with their plan moving forward, I think is an important part to making sure that that works. If there's alternatives that, you know, that fire department board, which I was, you know, I'm on, if we're not considering something that we need to be considering, like the rentals, I think which are still a good idea to pursue, we need to figure out what those are. Because again, it's coming out of the same funds. Well, we have started as we do have a collection of all the businesses within the town for all that and we are going to start a letter campaign and to target those, the businesses to help fund this replacement schedule. That would probably be something much like you were talking about as far as, you know, a new tower, new doubt. So yeah, our concrete plans right now are really around engine one and engine two because they're our oldest two. And then we're still in the development process for a comprehensive for the whole fleet right now. But we wanted to give you, we're going in, we're both going into budget season. We wanted to give you advanced notice, keep you informed on what we're doing, what we're thinking for the biggest ticket items we have, essentially. So does the League of City and Towns, and if you're familiar with those folks, they do a lot of work with towns, we're a member of that. They have a lost prevention group. You may want to ask them to come in and be just another third set of eyes. Maybe you look at something you guys may have not thought about because they deal with communities across Vermont. Maybe there's a different way to approach something like this. It just may be worth to sit down with them and have them come do an evaluation of what you guys have and then, you know, again, there just may be another way out, something that for you guys to consider. I think we as the town would have to approach them. Okay, because we're a group of members. We're a private corporation, so we're... Well then, that's made... I think something we should do then is a town to do that. Yeah, I mean, if there's some other sort of creative financing or other sort of arrangement that we just don't know about. If the town were to approach them, we would be happy to participate. So I'll give them a call, but which one of you two should I... Because I don't know this. Which one of them should I direct them to talk to you guys? No, that would be me. So what's your phone number? It's going to be 522-7448. Okay, all right. I'll give them a call tomorrow and just have a shout to you guys. Thank you. Video? Thank you for bringing this to us. And on a positive note, it's nice to see the notes are paid. Yeah. After a little positivity in there and you're doing everything good and it was nice of you to bring this forward so that we know what you're dealing with and what you need. But as a temperature check, does it seem to both of you that there are approach to doing the immediate replacement with the use and then going to it for a bond, telling me that that seems reasonable? It does seem reasonable to me. I think it's nice in terms of looking at the age and so you can offset the years. I also like the approach that you're taking for targeting to get help from businesses. And I think, you know, Berlin is really expanding and I think that expansion can also really help you at this time. That's my opinion. Well, the presentation before ours is something that all needs to be considered. And we're paying attention to that, too, so. Engine 2, what did you acquire that? It was about 2012. We got it used in Claremont. Yeah, 2012. And I may be off by a year or so, but it was right about then. And it was purchased as a stop-gap measure even back then. We knew it wasn't going to be a long-term purchase. And honestly, it's probably outlived what we should have done for it. Now, your situation right now that you're in where you're not going to utilize this because obviously you can't. Your advice is don't. Can you get help from surrounding areas? There is a, we're part of a group called Capital Fire Mutual Aid Association. That includes pretty much all of central Vermont. And those are agreements. So if something big happens in town, we have basically a set of, we call them run cards. We have a set of assignments. If it happens over in West Berlin, we want Northfield to come in. We want Montpelier to come in. And since they're all member towns to that Capital Fire Mutual Aid group, they have promised to help us. And we've promised to help them. So the coverage is not lacking. But it is we're relying more heavily on our neighbors rather than being independent right now. So our goal is to not rely on our neighbors as much as we are at the moment. I understand. How many, when you bought engine one, how many hours were on it? It was brand new. I mean, engine two, sorry. Engine two. I do not know the answer to that question. Answer that. Miles? Yeah. I do. Miles really matter with a fire truck. It's all about engine hours. It's more about hours. And I do not know the answer to that question, honestly. Anything else? Any more questions? Thank you very much for coming in. Thank you. Thank you both so much. Vote change the winter maintenance for Foie's Trail. Do I hear a motion on that? So this was what we had agreed before. So this was to stop plowing in the winter beyond the first house? Yeah, one year. OK. So I move that we do the highway crew to not plow cost trail beyond the first house for a trial period of one year. And I second that motion. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Outdoor automobile or automobile parts storage ordinance? Well, I believe the conversation that Dana had with me that he sent a draft of that document to counsel. And I don't know if he spoke to you about that, but I believe counsel came back and said that there was some serious issues with that. So subsequently to that, Dana and I spoke. As you know, we adopted some new regulations. And I asked Dana to consider that for enforcement that we looked beyond outdoor automotive and looking for all zoning enforcement. So our zoning regulations talked about a municipal civil complaint ticket process. I don't know if you can mention this to you. What is effected, it's if there's a violation instead of, right now, if there's a violation to zoning, the impetus is on the town with purse strings to get something done. You have to series of notifications. You have to take folks to court. So the town is front loading the costs. And you hope to recoup some of that cost by them abiding by permits and recouping the costs. With this reason, this civil complaint ticket process was put in. It puts the onus on the violator. And the prop dealer. So it's you and the select ward empowers town employees. And I would recommend that the police force be the ones that do the consultation with the town administrator. That if there's a violation and folks are notified and given a fair amount to cure the violation, if they don't cure the violation, then it becomes a civil ticketing thing where it could be $50 a day. And then you could ticket both entities to it. Because what happens with violations, oftentimes there's the property owner, which is who under the current way town does things, is that's who the town would go after. But we've seen quite often that it's a relative to the property owner that's doing this. It may be a child or a grandparent who owns the property. So we see that the property owners really don't have a lot of control because of this. Under this ticketing, you could ticket both the property owner, and you can ticket the entity that's doing whatever. The tenants. The tenants. Yes. Yeah. And my personal opinion, I believe you will find greater cures the violations. The town isn't up front with the cost of this. The owners is put on the property owner and the violators. So Dana and I have had this discussion on I would really like to maybe move away from this whole auto and saying this is the auto. And just say it's any violations that fall under this. I don't know if it's a change of charter. I just don't know the minutiae to get this done. But I think the town would be better served if we went to something like this rather than this. How much of that is in the zoning rights already? It's already proved saying that we can do this. Again, I don't know from a charter standpoint. I just don't know. I'd have to talk to the council to see what. Yes, I mean, if it's like a zoning enforcement matter, we may already have the authority to do so. It might need to move away. That's my sense. And then you guys would authorize. You have to authorize who the authorized ticketing agents are for the town to do this. I think it's a much cleaner. And I think you're going to cure zoning violations much more readily than we can now. So you're not interested in anything other than going to Rob? Well, I'm not the town administrator. You know, it was a conversation that Dana had with me. He's saying what he sent to Rob, Rob didn't have. He didn't think it was valid. So Dana sent Rob this information. I just need to follow up with Rob. So Rob's reviewing it now? Rob has some health issues right now, so I don't know how much he's getting done. Yeah, but I will reach out to him and see about this. And I should hopefully have something back for you for the next meeting. OK. Anything else on this phone? No. Thank you, Tom. This is the one approval of the Bond Council agreement for using Paul Giuliani. He has signed the USDA form. He has crossed out all his stuff that he won't do and has signed it. And I ask you both to give that consideration for tonight and hopefully approve that. So compensation is listed. I'm happy to pass this round. But compensation is listed at $200 an hour plus reimbursement for incurred expenses. He's paid periodically upon invoice, shocking there. Nothing outlandish. No, it says, is it for him to do the work for a public sewer system and illegal services? He's only got two of the possible eight sections set up there. Paul does like 99% of the municipal bonding work. Does quality work. That's true, even though he's the only restaurant in town. He's been very helpful. Yeah. I've always heard very, very. He's been very helpful. There are those three sections that he will do. What is this called again, Tom? It is a Bond Council agreement. And we have to approve the Bond Council agreement for Paul Giuliani as presented. I second the motion. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion carries. This is a signature page. Today's the third. Nothing there for a date. OK, thank you. Pellar's license of application for MPV health care? I've talked to MPV. They have promised to give me the check by today, but they haven't gotten me the check today. So I'm going to put this on to the next leg forward for January. When do they need their license? End of November, beginning December. OK. This is the folks that are setting up in the mall. Yes. The letter received regarding recreation meeting for Hannah Conner. Hannah Conner, I think, being said, she had an interest. She was going to try to get her here. She couldn't make it to this meeting, so she's asked to come to the next meeting. And appointments to the Economic Development Council? I believe there's a meeting of Economic Development Council on the 9th. And is that being held here? Yes. Yes. And is it the full east? We have five people on that committee. OK. It sounds like that. And they're meeting here on November 7th, October 9th at 5 p.m. here. Were there any more appointments of other people who are now here? Dana? No. OK. There probably is no executive session. I don't have anything. The round table? Or do you have something? No, I was going to move to the turn, but the round table. I don't have anything to make around the table. The public's work is looking to put a bond in for town meeting 2010 to complete the water project. 2020. 2020. 2020. OK. Yeah. Back in time. Yeah. 2020 to complete the water project, which includes smart meters for like 95%. They were here about a month ago to talk to you folks about it. They're moving ahead with that and working with Rosemary to get the language for your folks' consideration for the warning for town meeting for that. Right now, it's roughly $600,000. Half of that's in the meters. And how is the water department doing it? Are they, do we have capacity yet? Or are we still? Well, there's two forms of capacitors. There's allocations. Well, what are we actually using? We're half of it. We're getting the actual capacity. Yeah. But from an allocation, we're overallocated. That's a good thing. That's a good thing. Yeah. Motion to adjourn. Second to motion. All in favor? Aye.