 A.P.C. lacks capacity to win elections, says Senator Magnus Abe, and free and transparent polls are panacea for peace stability in West Africa, says President Bahari, to Echoos leaders. Well, this is Plus Politics. I am Mira Anacom. Senator Magnus and Gay Abe on Monday said the River State chapter of the All Progressive Congress A.P.C. lacked the capacity to win the 2023 general elections in the state. Abe, however, said Governor Wike would not solely determine who would succeed him in 2023's general elections, but majority of the people in the state. Abe, who was believed to have joined the Social Democratic Party, SDP, to actualize his gubernatorial ambition, also expressed the hope that to be Wike's successor in 2023. Alvin joining us to discuss this is Golden Chama. He was the factional chairman of the All Progressive Congress in River State until recently, when he resigned. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Chama, for joining us. Mr. Chama, can you hear me? Look like I heard you, please. Perfect. Okay, great. Now, by looking at the problems of the All Progressive Congress, I think we have had several conversations over the years concerning the A.P.C. in River State, and here we are again today, talking about the A.P.C. yet again. I'll start by asking why you left the A.P.C. I left the A.P.C. for a lot of reasons, but the most important reason is that the reward system in the party is very abysmal. People work and they are not rewarded. Those who have the capacity to leak boots are given the best options and the best opportunities in the party. What do you mean by those who leak boots and are giving the best offices in the party? What does that mean? Yes, it is surprising to you that in parties like A.P.C., there are very able and competent persons. When it comes to appointments, those who get it, for me, I consider them as being in consecration as to what is given. So most times the best materials are not being used to enhance the party's functions. Interestingly, you and I have been here talking about factions within the A.P.C. and those factions have held sway for, I mean, almost two years plus, if I'm not mistaken, maybe four, it's spanned into four years. And you're here saying that some of the problems in the party was lack of fairness and distribution of offices. But is that really the sole reason why you left the party? Because you were not given an office or is it that you were sad that certain things were not done right? Because to the ordinary I seemed more like you were seeking for an office and that wasn't given to you and that's why you left the party. Is that it? No. I said party members are not being rewarded for their hard work. It's not a personality. I aspire to be the chairman of the All Progressive Congress. There is baffling that the party, all next to the faction that was on the other side, need to call the office and if we leave that and go to the others, most of the offices in the party are not being given to the best materials. Rather, only those who have the capacity to tell stories, leak boots are given. If you remember some time ago, the governor of the state had caused to lampune the nomination of the minister from the state that it was appalling to the state that that was the best the APC could give for the ministerial position. Though it is his own opinion, but a lot of other appointments that have gone on before now are laughable. So for me, politics has to do with interest. Let's move on to other matters before we talk about what the senator said about the APC. Now I remember some time ago when I brought the other side of the APC to the show, they did of course many times accuse your faction of being in bed with the opposition, that is the PDP for the longest time. And I remember even the senator himself was points fingered as someone who was in bed with the governor. And this is reference to a thanksgiving service that he had in the state that the governor of the state had attended, which raised eyebrows. At any point in the life of your APC membership, was there a wooing from the opposition for you and members of your faction? To the best of my ability, best of my knowledge, I'm aware that we're all politicians. We were in the PDP before we came over to the APC, so all those in the PDP, we know them. They also know us. If anybody wants to woo anybody, it goes on on daily basis. But what I want to explain to your viewers is that we belong to APC as of the time we were there and we made sure we protected the interests of the APC. We had no business with those in PDP. As I speak to you now, I left for the SDP. I'm also aware that the Magnus left for the APC and for the SDP. We're dealing with the PDP. It is a clear indication that we're not in bed with those of the PDP. But let me refresh your memory a little bit. Those with amnesia and faction are those going to the PDP. If you remember, some time ago, a lot of those who resigned after me headed to the PDP and they're all for amnesia and faction, I left the APC, I went to the SDP, but they are all going to the PDP. What does it tell you? I'm not a member of the PDP. I do not have any relationship with them. But those are just going there. Okay, let's move on to the future of the APC. Now, I know that you speak now for the SDP, but you obviously were members of the APC. Now, the senator had been quoted to say that the APC will not and does not have the capacity to win elections in the state. Why do you think that? And I also want to ask, do you think that the Magnus Abbey faction of the all-progressive Congress at the time has had enough power to cripple the party? Because what the senator is saying is that without him and other members of the faction, obviously the party does not have a long lifespan. But how true is that? Yeah, I would prefer you to ask me directly, not to ask me what he said. But I'm asking you, what do you think the chances are for the APC in the state right now? And how powerful do you think your faction is? Or was? The truth of the matter is that the all-progressive Congress is a great party. But unfortunately, in reverse states, it has been managed poorly. And the success story of the party is below half. So there is no way they can win any election in reverse states, especially not of the governor. It's not possible. I'm curious. I remember also, while there was this drag and back and forth which cost the party all of its ticket in 2019, they blamed your faction and the senator for their inability to win elections or even run for those offices. So again, now that it seems that you all are out of the way, what are the chances? I mean, what makes you think that they might not be able to win the elections in 2023? I mean. To be fair to you, in 2019, if the party was on the ballot, the party would have won the elections. But unfortunately, the poor management of the party spot all the party's chances. We had a problem where we all agreed that the party do not have elected officers in the various levels of government, in the world, in the local government or in the state, that it would be best if we do direct permits. But unfortunately, those at the corridor of power there said that it would be better to deny the party of its chances and the way for indirect. And those who had both forms contested the election to the various offices went to courts. And the judge in this wisdom and the court in this wisdom, he modified all of this. So it lost the opportunity. OK. Now in 2022, people bought forms again. For the delegate elections, they were denied the same pattern. So I don't know what is left of the party, but I will head in very recent times that even a BLT member of the party from my state has also left the party for the PDP. It's unfortunate. Let's come to the SDP now. Let's come to the SDP now knowing that you and the senator and most members of your faction are now in the SDP. I wish that I was, you know, the senator was here. I don't know if you can speak for him, but the SDP is not necessarily a party that one would say is a major political party in in River State, being that the the tussle has been between the oppressive Congress and the People's Democratic Party. And now the SDP being introduced into the mix here by the senator. What is the spread and the structure of the SDP in the state, even though members from your party has moved to it? I'm aware that the SDP as a party is registered with INEC. They also have structures in all words. In all local governments and in the states. So it is a viable option. But with the entrance of Senator Magnus Abbey into the party and his followers, their chances are brighter. I want to look at the issue of the upland, I mean the power sharing formula. Let's look at the tragic tree. We had a governor oddily. We also had a governor who wrote to me and made cheap. We now have a governor weekend. And there has been this conversation about, you know, the the guys in the Agoni section of the state. And of course, the guys who are in the waterlocked areas who are supposed to be given an opportunity at this ticket. Now we see that the APC is fronting a Tonya Cole who seems to be from one of the places we've been combassing for an opportunity at the ticket. But then of course, we have now the senator who is from the Agoni extraction of River State. Does this mean that, let's say the APC and of course the SDP stands a chance of moving rivers people to their side, especially for the SDP being that Senator Magnus Abbey has been combassing over and over for the Agoni should be given a shot at that ticket. Again, what's the guarantee that was a Senator Magnus Abbey on that ticket that the reverse people would flock in his direction? Let me tell you, before River State was divided between Rivers and Biasa State, in the old River State, we had the river ride on the upland. 80% of the river ride was taken away from River State to form Biasa. The equivalent issue, saying that upland and river ride share it if a person doesn't hold, but even in the argument is supposed to hold. The state is structured into senatorial zones. Rivers East, Rivers West and Rivers Southeast. Rivers West and Rivers East have held the position of governor. But Rivers Southeast have not had it. Coincidentally, all the senatorial zones have river ride elements. Now the only senatorial zone that do not have, that have never tested the governorate, is the Rivers South East. The Rivers South East would have been the purpose. They were deputy governor for eight years. In the Rivers South East, we have the underness. They were deputy governors for another eight years. But the entire Oguni area have never had deputy governor or governor. And this is the senatorial zone. In 2014, that the party APC in this wisdom zoned the governorship too. But this has been, this has been a subject of argument. I'm sorry to cut in there. This has been a subject of argument between the senator and the minister. There have been allegations that the former governor had promised that power was going to be zoned to that part of the state, which he didn't keep to his promise. And then there are also disagreements on that issue saying that there was no such thing. There was no such agreement in the first instance. And one would think that maybe this was at the core of the in broglie between the minister and the senator. In 2014, it was glaring. It was clear to everybody that the governorship was zoned to the Rivers South East. And the two candidates, that, you know, three of the candidates were the former deputy governor, Senaikuru, the Thomas Abbe, and the Kukupita side. The three of them in APC thought for the governorship ticket. No other person from any other territorial zone did vibe. So it was glaring. And do you think? I'm not aware. Okay. That, that is it. We only the type, the APC zoned their governorship to the South East. And everybody had to wait. But just with the intention to frustrate deny the most competent candidate in the APC as of the time, it was a change to river ride. That's all. Okay. Because we're almost, because we're almost running out of time. The same territorial zone has a river and components. Okay. I think you made that point clearly earlier on. Quickly before we wrap up, this is my last question. It had the senator, Senator Magnus Abbe has been closer to say that he will support the APC national candidate, presidential candidate for the 2023 elections. But then you all are in the social democratic party. What does that mean? Because of course the SDP does have its own presidential candidate. Does that not, is that not tantamount to anti party practices? No, I disagree with you. Every individual has the right to vote for any candidate he wishes, irrespective of his calculation. If Senator Magnus has said that he still supports the candidature of a largely Bonatino Goa man, whom he works for, while in the APC, that is his personal opinion. He's a key button to hold that. Okay. Well, because we're out of time, I want to say thank you. Golden Chalma is the factional, was the factional chairman of the All Progressive Congress in River State until he recently resigned and moved to the SDP in River State. We want to thank you, Mr. Chalma, for being part of the conversation, and we wish you the best of luck in your new party. Thank you so much. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a quick break now. When we return, we will be joined by some gentlemen. As we discuss the conducting of free-fare and transparent elections in Nigeria, as President Buhari has told his fellow leaders in West Africa that these are what we need for our democratic process to grow in the sub-region. Stay with us.