 Father Robert Nixon, thank you for coming back to us. We've had some incredible conversations about the spiritual master, Thomas A. Kempis, and we've talked about his biography. We've talked about his great work, Imitation of Christ. We've talked about our new work, Together, Humility and the Elevation of Mine to God. And now we're going to talk about an incredible little book that is still only in manuscript form at this moment of recording entitled Meditations on Death. And I am so excited to talk about this. But let's begin as we always do with a quick prayer, if you don't mind. Heavenly Father, you created us in this world. You have given us a short and precious time here. Each of us will be confronted on the last day by the reality of death. By your grace, help us to prepare ourselves for this reality and for everything that lies beyond it. O Lord of life, help us to be ever ready for death through Christ our Lord. Amen. Thank you, Father. Well, so welcome back. Thank you, Connor. This one was a shocker to me. This manuscript in the sense that I had learned by this point that A Kempis had written a lot of things. And I shouldn't really be surprised that he wrote on death. But the way in which he did it was somewhat a surprise. So just to kind of give our readers a short little summary of the book, part one is Reflections on the Last Things. And here we're going to kind of go through it. But he talks about the Torments of Hell, Final Judgment, the joys of heaven. Part two, this is what was really a surprise to me. It's a discourse in the person of a sinner about to die. And so we're going to get into that, which this is my favorite part of the book. It's this guy on his deathbed thinking about what is to come. Indeed. It's tremendously creative. He puts himself in the person of someone who's about to die and brings home really the reality that sooner or later, we're all going to be in that very situation. Yeah. It's incredible. And we're going to get into that. And then the third and final part is Canticles to Heaven. So it's not just grim. Hell, he sings these beautiful hymns to heaven. So it's just remarkable. So tell us a little bit about how did you come across this particular work? And what was your experience like when you read it? So when I was preparing these works by a campus, I was investigating them. And in one of the editions of his work, it was, I think from 1538 from memory, there are included these short works at the end. And, you know, I was really struck by them. I thought, gee, these are such powerful works, particularly for me as a Benedictine. One of the things which St. Benedict suggests to us is that we should keep death daily before our eyes. And this was very much a characteristic of the spirituality of people in the late medieval period when Kempis was writing. So, yeah, I thought, you know, this really is something which modern readers don't find too much of. You know, it's something like, in our modern world, we tend to like not to want to talk about death. You know, we know it's there, but we'd prefer just to keep it kind of hidden away and refer to it as little as possible. Whereas he brings it out there right in the open. So, yeah, I think this meditation of death in itself brings us close to wisdom. Because in the end, it's a reality which we're all going to have to face. So, in our little studio here to my left, we have a little friend, a skull, a human skull. Now, it's a fake plastic skull. I'm glad it is, actually. Yeah. So, that used to be on my desk down the hall in my office. And when I started running this company a number of years ago, I learned, you know, a lot of Catholic artwork of St. Jerome, you know, working on his writings. And he always had this skull on his desk where he's holding a skull, talking to it, momentum or remember that you will die. Yeah. And so, I googled searched, how do I get a human skull and a fake one? I didn't think getting a real human skull would be the most prudent thing to do in my office. But this little plastic $40 human skull does stare at me and remind me that I'll look like him one day, you know? Yeah. And so, that was a kind of a common practice, I think, well, amongst the great saints is they really did things to remind themselves that the end was near. Of that. And I think it puts everything in so much perspective. Often, we can get ourselves enmeshed in things which seem to matter so much, you know, but when we put it in the context of the fact that we're going to, you know, we're not going to be here forever, we think, well, does it really matter so much? You know, what are the ultimate things? What really matters in the context of the inevitability of death and everything that lies beyond it? The opening paragraph to this work, Father, is great. My friend, so he's talking to us, it is most useful for you to call to mind frequently and assiduously the reality of your own death. This indeed is the one universal reality of our human condition. And so it's like, you know, we have that saying here, you know, there's two certain things in life, death and taxes. So it's the one universal reality, right? And then he says something interesting. He says, some are rich while others are poor. Some are masters while others are servants. Some learned while others are simple. And some are blessed by happiness and good fortune while others are struck down by misfortune and calamity. Yet all face death with equal certainty. And though death itself is a certainty, it's time and manner of arrival are profoundly uncertain. Oh, my God. I mean, it's it's stuff that we know, but you translate it beautifully. And I had mentioned to you before my favorite book that we publish Humility of Heart. And in that that opening paragraph of that work, he explains, hey, you know, maybe you don't have to give all your money to the poor, maybe you don't have to be a virgin to get holy, maybe you don't have to suffer, but you have to be humble. Like it's the universal thing you have to be humble. Well, here I kind of felt like this opening paragraph was like that, you know, listing all these different states in life, all these different cert cert situations, but the one certainty is death. And I just think it was a powerful opening paragraph. Yeah, very much so. And, you know, I think the more we keep the reality of death in mind, the less likely we are to fall into any sin of any kind, because you think about it, pride, envy, lust, wrath, and all of these things, you know, think about death and and they go away. They lose their power, don't they? They do. Yeah. He says here on page five, consider next your own self and your dying moments and reflect upon the stains on your own conscience, your atonement, your unatone sins and your unamended vices. These, I love this line, these will all flood into your heart as a bitter torrent at that fateful time like a river of regret or a stream of sorrow. I mean, this is some strong language. And you think about, you think about yourself lying on your death bed with all of these things, you know, pouring in, he says, how much you will then long for, listen to this, how much you will then long for another year of life and health or even another day or another hour in which to atone and amend yourself. I mean, you know, you're there, you're being flooded with, you know, like we talk about how life flashes before your eyes, right? People talk about that. Well, here he's kind of saying these, your own regrets, you know, time wasted, things like that are going to be flooding through. And how much you would give, you would give all of your riches for just another day to amend your life. That's such a powerful notion. Yeah. Yeah. And we're called by this not to wait till it's too late. And this might seem like a bit of a cliche, but we should live as if this very day, this very minute, could be our last, you know, and think, well, if I knew that this was going to be my last day, what would I do? And to do it, because, you know, it is a reality. Sooner or later, this day could be our last, it could be this very night that we're called away. And to think, what decision would I make if I knew that I'm not going to get a second chance? And in this, when we think about every single thing we do, we're sure to make the decision, which is going to keep us on that path, which will lead to eternal happiness. You know, often we do things thinking, oh, it doesn't matter so much, because, you know, I'm going to have extra time. I can always correct things. I can always, you know, make up for it at some future point in time that I'm always going to have a second chance. But we're not always going to have a second chance that, you know, that this might be our very last chance. We might be, you know, we might already be at the stage of the last chance. And are we making the best of it? Are we doing the right thing? A little further in the book, he mentioned something that I find particularly interesting. I'm going to ask you kind of a tough question on this. He says, and at the point of death, a multitude of demons will appear before you, ready to seize upon each departed soul. So in our modern world, we have a notion of like, oh, you die and you feel at peace and you see the light and you go towards the light. We have a very kind of positive view of things and people talk a lot about that. But the church fathers, and I've read a number of them on this, particularly Gregor the Great, your fellow Benedictine. And he talks about how death is actually terrifying. And it's terrifying for a couple reasons. One, you got these demons who are fighting over you at the last moment. And then also, and this was interesting to me, Father, and I'd love our listeners to hear it and just see what you have to say about it. It's going to be that as soon as we die, as soon as the soul departs the body, we are now a very incomplete person, right? And it's the first time we're going to experience life without our senses, our physical senses. We're going to, I mean, imagine not being able to see anything or hear anything instantly. Like if we just went deaf and blind, like right now, boom, we'd be terrified. What if we just could, what if we lost our sense of feeling and you couldn't feel the chair you're sitting in there? You couldn't, you know, all of these senses vanish instantly. And so the soul is going to have a sense of real terror initially. So, which by the way, in my mind, it tells me the more you detach from your body now through mortification, more detachment, the better suited you're going to be to be without your body right upon your death. And so, you know, you'll get your bearings quicker. So, I mean, so just talk a little bit about right at the moment of death, what are the demons doing? Why did a campus say that multitude of demons are going to be surrounding you, you know? Yeah. And, you know, I think this is a tremendous antidote to the way we often like to imagine death as if it's going to be just, you know, really tremendous peaceful thing that we're, you know, but no, I mean, if you think about the times in life and all of us have been, well, most of us have been close to death at one point or another. We've been, you know, either suffering from real physical danger, from some illness, from some real physical pain. And we realize that this is not. This is actually a pretty fearful thing. And, you know, death in itself is something which is quite apart from being unknown. We're quite right to be afraid of dying. And to think about, well, not only don't we know where we're going, but our senses, everything which we've counted on is going to be taken away from us. It's going to be confused as well. Yeah, exactly. Like, you just imagine you just can't see or hear anything instantly, you know, that would be confusing. Yeah, yeah. And you think, well, you know, the closest we could probably imagine to this is if we were, if we were put into a very dark room, if our senses were all becoming very unreliable, we don't know what we're doing, we don't know, we basically don't know who we are. And on top of that, there are these dark, fearful, terrifying things which are trying to seize us and doing their very best to confuse us. Father, you know, sensory deprivation is a form of torture. It is. And that's what, you know, the bad guys do, you know, they'll do sensory deprivation. And you don't know if five minutes went by or an hour went by. I mean, like, people get very confused and very concerned of the anxiety as it goes through the roof. People can't take it, you know? Yeah. And so that's something that's scared the hell out of us a little bit, to that we think, okay, that's what might be, we might be looking at that at death. We will be looking at that at death. And ultimately, all fear emerges from our fear of death. The oldest fear is the fear of the unknown. And there's nothing which is more unknown than death and what it really means and what's going to happen to it. And if we knew that it went, that it meant that it was a full stop and that there was nothing, then we wouldn't be afraid. But we don't know. And this ultimate not knowing, I think is the greatest possible fear there is. Yeah, it's incredible. A campus, he writes something that almost reminds me of Dante. He says, And so it will be for vices of every kind, each vice having its own particular tormenting spirits. And the nature of these tormenting spirits will correspond to the vice which they punish. Thus the infernal spirit, which punishes pride shall constantly mock and humiliate its victims, whereas the demon which punishes sloth will compel them to undertake incessant arduous and unending labor. It's powerful language. Again, it's like that Dante where certain demons are tormenting certain vices. What do you have to say about that? Yeah. So you think, well, a vice is a weakness. It's something which comes from some fear. And whatever it is which we most fear will be brought to its full fruition in this absolutely horrendous state of hell, if we ever have to face that, and it will be perfectly adapted to repaying what put us there in the most terrible way we can possibly think of. Later in the work, in his next chapter, he really goes through each of the senses, father. He, you know, he talks about what you'll see. He talks about what you will hear. He goes through these senses, right? What you'll feel. But one of the things that caught my attention in this is what you smell. So, I mean, what does hell smell like? And a campus just, you know, just does an incredible job just to read a few lines. Disgusting and nauseating odors of decomposition and death together with the acrid stench of sulfur and the perpetual plague of the nose. And then he says, the tormented souls will try to avoid breathing. Knowing that to breathe will mean taking in the foul stench and disgusting flavor of the hellish atmosphere. And so he basically says that they'll continually try to stop breathing all the way to the point of suffocation and then try to breathe again. I mean, it's, oh my gosh, I've never heard such a vivid description of hell and it had to do with what hell smells like. A campus has walked us through what the senses experience and hell, which is quite terrifying. It is gone around, very happy to have now escaped hell and to move to a much, much better place. Absolutely. So, in heaven, he, well, first of all, there's a really cool passage here. He talks about the pearly gate. So, he's just kind of starting as we walk into heaven. And before we experience the sensory situation of heaven, he talks about the great pearl. And so, tell us about that. Indeed. And so, this is actually something which comes from sacred scripture from the Book of Revelations in which there's a detailed description of the celestial Jerusalem. And I guess the pearly gates is an expression which has become almost a bit of a cliche. And we say pearly gates without thinking about what we really mean. But if we go back and look at the Book of Revelation, it tells us that each of these gates is carved from a single massive pearl. And if you just reflect for a moment, you know, the biggest pearl I've seen is probably, I don't know, about an inch or so in diameter. This is something which is truly mind blowing. And on top of that, the streets of the city are paved with gold, with pure gold, and lined with gemstones. I mean, this is completely awesome when you stop and try to imagine it for a few moments. I can't even fathom what it would be like to live in a place like that, but it would certainly be a magnificent experience. He talks about going into the senses. He says, And that glorious gleaming metropolis shall be adorned and surrounded by verdant and gorgeous fields, filled with multicolored flowers of incomparable and entrancing beauty. And in that city, the tranquil warmth and gentle light of spring shall prevail eternally, and the air will be surfaced with fragrant perfumes, offering ever new and intoxicating delights. And I had written in my notes, and no allergies, because I'm allergic to everything he just said. You know, kind of that's right. Well, all allergies, weaknesses, disease, all of this are actually manifestations of the lasting effect of original sin. And of course, that will be completely taken away. So not only will there be no tears or no mourning, but there will be no colds, no coughs, no flu. I mean, we'll be completely immortal with this fullness of life, a life which is so full that it can't be impaired by anything at all, not even allergies. And you know, and he says that he goes on to say about the vividness of the reality will surpass that of our present life. So our senses at the moment are all limited. We will have perfect senses so that the glories which we perceive, the beauties which we perceive in this world right now, we perceive only through our very imperfect senses. So we get only to see them as if through a glass and darkly. But there it will be like, compared to this reality, this reality will be like looking at something in black and white, compared to high dimension, full color reality, which will be what's waiting us in the next world, where our senses will be perfected. That's beautiful. In a subsequent podcast, we're going to talk about Saint Anselm and his book on the glories of heaven, where we're going to talk in detail about the glorified body and what that's like, you know, and that kind of this is just reminding me of that. So I look forward to that conversation. But in the next part of this book, you know, why don't you just say a little bit of what a chemist talks about with the beatific vision. So it's one thing to smell beautiful flowers and to see an awesome pearly gate. But he definitely says all of that's just the prelude to the actual beatific vision. So what does a chemist have to say about that? So the beatific vision is a very important thing in the Christian imagining the Christian conception of heaven, of paradise. It will be the perfect vision, the perfect comprehension and understanding of the glorious and holy trinity. And you know, we think about the trinity now and it's a very beautiful thing, this three-ness yet oneness. But what we think about now is only really the definition of it in words, not the reality itself, this dynamic interchange of love. And he says, this holy trinity, mysterious and beyond all conception is the perfect archetype and ultimate epitome of all that is beautiful, all that is good, all that is delightful. In beholding this glorious trinity, you will know all there is to know that you shall possess all your heart desires rather even more than your heart desires and could ever desire even more than your mind could ever conceive. So we're going to be united with the beatitude, the blessedness, the joy of God himself, which is truly an awe-inspiring thought, you know. You think about those times in this life when we felt most happy, most content, most joyful, and that will be just the smallest fragment of what this fullness of eternal joy will be like in the union with God. Yeah. And he concludes this chapter actually with a quote, I wasn't even intending it, but I forgot that he concludes this chapter with a quote from St. Anselm, you know. We're going to talk about it another time. And it says this, as St. Anselm has said, whatever you wish for, you shall immediately have. And whatever you do not wish for will never befall you. And what I just kind of made a note to that, that reminds me of something that St. Augustine said, and this is a significant paraphrasing, I think, but it goes something like this, love God and then do what you want. Yeah. With the idea being, you know, particularly in heaven, since we're talking about the joys of heaven, you only want what is good. And so you get to do whatever you want. And a saint here on earth in an imperfect way gets to do what they want. And I think that's why Augustine said, love God, then do what you want. He's not saying, oh, go just have a good time. He's not saying that. But when you love God, your desires are purified. And so your will is only desiring to do his will. So you, in a sense, you have total freedom then because you get to do exactly what you want because you only want the good. And he finishes this chapter with that quote from St. Anselm. And I think it's just driving point the home to me that in heaven, there's total freedom. You get what you want. Exactly. Exactly. And some people, you know, when they think about heaven, they wonder, is it just like a big static, you know, being frozen in eternity? But no, it's not like that at all, that we continue to have desires and wishes and so forth, but they're instantly fulfilled. And we can do this with perfect freedom, because everything which impairs our current will, which makes us sometimes will for the wrong thing, will be completely removed. So our will will be in perfect unity with that of God. And it is also this gives us perfect freedom. It also gives us complete omnipotence, because just as the will of God is omnipotent, so our will, which will accord with his perfectly, and with the United will of all the angels and saints will be joined also in this splendid omnipotence. And so it's not this static state, but rather a state of going from one glory to another. And I think one of the things which Gregory of Nisses talks about in heaven is that it's not, we don't receive everything, but it's a continual and infinite progression from one state of bliss to an even greater one. Yeah, I'm going to mention this. This is a, I don't think this is a digression, but I read somewhere that human nature is capable of doing anything with the grace of God except for two things. One, human nature can never create out of nothing. Only divine nature can do that. And two, human nature could never annihilate something out of existence. Only God can do that. But with God's grace, human nature is able to do anything else. We'd be able to move planets. We'd be able to give sight to the blind. I mean, we can do these amazing things, and so much of the redemption of mankind was done through the human nature of Christ, the divine person working through the human nature of Christ. I mean, redemption was in a sense an act of man done by a divine person, but done through human nature. So I just find that interesting that heaven, I kind of feel that this conversation about heaven is showing that we're going to talking about participating in God's omnipotence, his all knowing, his all power, like we're going to have tremendous abilities to, Anselm talks about, which we'll get into later, being able to, to the velocity, being able to move faster than the speed of light, just pop around the universe at unimaginable speeds. So our nature of humanity is capable of that with the grace of God infusing it with his power and his knowledge. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, it makes, it makes a lot of sense, you know, and the human being is the, is the big which is going to be redeemed when we're in heaven will still be fully human. And the human being now is limited only by the impairments of sin by the division of our, our souls from the will of God. So we substantially unite our wills with God during this life, I mean, because most people basically want, what is good, but we never do this perfectly. We see in, in the saints and in the person of Jesus Christ, people who unite their souls, their will with the will of God. And, and Christ says, if our faith is strong enough, we'll be able to move mountains. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like that's, you got, you know, this is making Superman and Batman look pathetic, right? I mean, you know, Marvel heroes have nothing on the human beings infused by the power of God. Indeed, indeed. Well, moving on, that's an amazing part one talked about a campus, walked us through hell, walked us through heaven. But part two of this book, Meditations on Death, is actually my favorite because I didn't expect it. And when I was, when I was reading through this manuscript that you brilliantly translated, I got to this part and I just wasn't expecting it. And I loved it. And it's entitled a discourse in the person of a sinner about to die. So the author of a campus begins this chapter with a very interesting technique. He says, he says, Hey guys, there is a remedy to all temptation. It's like any temptation you have, I know exactly how to handle it. And then he starts talking about, now go into your private room and think about your day of death. So why don't you kind of tell us a little bit about how he begins? Yes, yes, yes. So he recommends to us meditation on death as this powerful antidote to any kind of sin or temptation or worldly anxiety. He says, asks us to imagine ourselves lying on our bed in the very throes of death. And how are we going to feel about it right then? And it suddenly makes whatever is tempting you to be much less appealing, doesn't it? And puts everything, everything that we're doing, which we're aspiring to do, we think if I'm struggling about something, if I'm anxious about something, at the moment of death, is it really going to matter all of that much? And then the choice between good action or wicked action or no action at all? And which one are you going to prefer when you come to that final point? So it's keeping the end always in mind. And I think he's quite right in saying that this is a universal remedy for all of our moral uncertainties and everything, all of our temptations. So I tell you, Father, we have a joke. Sometimes my brothers and I will, you know, if we say like how, you know, how's your day going? And one of my goofy brothers will say, terrible, terrible. And I said, what's wrong? He'll say, my toaster doesn't have a bagel setting. This is something, something completely ridiculous to just so, you know, but, but, you know, we, we stress over the stupidest things, you know, and, you know, my one of my teenagers wrecked one of my cars again. Very recently, this is when you have 15 children and they become teenagers. You become, you know, a plague car insurance. I see as a monk, I think this is something which I'm a little bit grateful I've escaped. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I am, I'm struggling through that, but we're always therefore forced to look at, okay, what other car are we going to get? You know, like we keep adding drivers, so we have to get other cars. And so anyway, so I'm looking at a car and a nicer car than I'm used to looking at. I was looking at something. And then I find myself saying, oh, look at this, this car has, doesn't just have heater in the seats, but it has an air conditioning seat. And like, so you can click the button and the seats air condition. And I'm like, that's nice. Oh, look at this, the steering wheel has a heater built into it. Wow. This is really nice. And I start looking at it. So they were comparing one car to the other. And I find myself just so quickly, because I've always just dropped, you know, clunkers cars. And I'm, but I'm looking at it now saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, I am sitting here, slightly stressing over whether my steering wheel has a heater in it, and whether my seat has an air condition built into this is completely ridiculous. You know, so I got control of myself very quickly. I'm not a car person at all. But my point is, is as silly as that is, or as silly as whether your toaster has a bagel setting on it, you know, or how good your blender is, you know, for your smoothie or something stupid. I think on our deathbed, father, we're going to see all the all the issues of this life, you know, our reputation, how much money we made, you know, our education, all of these kind of big things. We're going to see as silly as the heater in the steering wheel and as silly as the air conditioning in the seats and as silly as whether your toaster has a bagel setting. That's right. And that's something that this when we go on to the discourse in the person of the sitter about to die, you know, it doesn't say he's like a huge sitter, it doesn't specifically name any of his sins or anything. So presumably he's no, you know, no worse than we are all sinners in some way or the other. But he reflects that he's wasted so much of his life, all these precious opportunities in the pursuit of vedities, in fleeting shadows and worldly things, things which don't matter. And I think, you know, if we reflect on our own life's often, we can find that here where our thoughts are occupied, our time and energy are expended on things which aren't really going to matter all that much. Yeah. Yeah. So in this, he begins, he goes from saying, okay, lay on your bed or imagine yourself laying on your deathbed. And then he's, and then he starts talking about death, like capital D, like death in a character shows up and stands next to the bed. And there's a line here on page 36. He says, and here I hear the grim voice of death calling to me sinister, thunderous, and with a hollow spectral resonance and drawing evermore nigh, it says, this is death. Death says, you are mine now, neither your wealth nor your honors nor your reason nor your knowledge nor your wisdom nor your friends nor your kin are able to free you from my clutches arise and let us depart now from the land of the living. I mean, this gives you goosebumps. You know, I mean, this is serious business. And this is a campus in the year 1400 something. Yeah. Yeah. Being extremely imaginative. Indeed. For very practical reasons. Yeah. Yeah. And this interestingly enough was about the time when the personification of death as as the grim reaper really came into into circulation into currency at this point in history. And, you know, the idea of death coming arriving at us as a kind of unwelcome guest one day, and compelling us to accompany him, I think is very, very sobering thought. And realizing that we're going to have to leave behind our wealth, our status, everything which often we work so hard in this life to acquire. And what do we take with us? We take with us the record of our deeds, both good and bad. Very sobering thought indeed. Do you guys have Charles Dickens Christmas Carol over there in Australia? Oh, yeah, we do. Okay, yeah. I mean, I mean, that's one of the probably the most famous Christmas story there is. And it's that's the idea, right? I mean, it's this man, you know, encountering the horrors of death and having to think about what his life was made of. And it leads to great conversion. That was the whole story, right? And so a campus is doing this, you know, what, 600 years ago? Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. So tell us the next chapter of lament over time wasted. So just talk to us. Now, he's really now full blown into the story of this man who's right at death's doorstep. Yeah, he's thinking now about what did he spend his time doing. Yes. And he talks about this and he says, how foolishly and profitless did I let my life pass by wasting it neglectfully and carefully carelessly as it were a thing of no value? Or as if it were endless in scope and would never run out? I squandered my time like an irresponsible spendthrift squanders money, not considering for a moment that it was both precious and limited. So this is so important, you know, because wasting time is actually if you think about it wasting life, because what is mortal life, but a certain quantity of time that we're given, you know, and people waste their time quite casually either on pointless things or doing nothing or doing things which have got no productive goal. I think it really calls to mind how precious a gift this time is, because it's our one chance. We're not going to get a second chance. I'm not talking about purgatory, of course, but you know, this is our one chance of expressing God's love and grace, of fulfilling his will of becoming the people who God wants us to be. And you know, we can see how much time these days is spent surfing the internet or phones or whatever. And yeah, and he talks about his reflection on life and he says, all of these things have vanished like an insubstantial shadow passing in the night or like a courier or herald who runs by swiftly without pausing to linger, or like a ship hastening through the waves, which leaves not a trace of pacing, or like a bird flying through the air, which is quickly gone and leaves no footprint in its flight, or like the sound of a bell ringing out, which once it has ceased to toll leaves no lasting impression or memory. This is amazing how transient things are and depending upon how old you are, you know, you look back and you realize not only does life pass by quickly, but it seems to pass by at an accelerating rate, you know, when you're young, every year seems to go on forever. And then after a few years, they go by quicker and quicker. And then you reach a point and you think, gee, the last decade has passed me by pretty quickly. So I wrote about that in one of my previous books. And I've thought and actually studied on that that notion of why does time feel to feel that it goes by faster and faster. And I think it's because young and this is speculation on my part, Father, but young children live in the present moment. They're very happy. They're not thinking about yesterday. And they're also not worried about their retirement plans. They're not worried about their 401k. They're not worried about fundraising. They're not worried about making money. They're just living in the present moment. God is the eternal now. He lives in the eternal now, right? I mean, he's not in the past. He's not in the future. He's just the eternal now. And our present moment is the closest we ever get to God in the eternal now. So I think the way, I think there's actually a technique that you and I can use to make time slow down. And that is to not have resentments of the past, not live too much in our memory of nostalgia or regrets, and also not to have too much worry, anxiety, concern about the future, but to embrace the present moment, which is the only place that God really is in our life, is in the present moment, at least on the time spectrum. And I believe if we do that, then time stops moving as quickly. We become childlike, just as he said, you must be like these little ones that enter the kingdom of heaven. So just a reflection I've had, that's why time goes by so quickly is because we're not living in the present moment. We're stuck in the past and we're stuck in the future, which is exactly where the devil wants us. So again, just that was just my little digression on that topic. But the next chapter, he is chapter seven, regrets concerning their deferral of repentance. Now, this made me think about how many, how many people, especially back in his day, would defer baptism until the end, you know, they talk about Constantine, who didn't want to get baptized until his deathbed. And it was, you know, we don't necessarily do that, but we definitely think there's always a time later to repent. And this, this fictional person on the deathbed in this book that a campus is writing about is, is regretting that he always thought he would have more time to repent and reform his life later on. Yeah, that's, that's quite true. And I think, you know, with people today, it could often be the case that someone is aware of there's something which they want to change about their person or their lifestyle or their character. But they think, well, you know, I'll change that later on. I'm too busy at the moment, I'm too occupied with other things. When it's all plain sailing, I'll change it. But the fact is, it's never all going to be plain sailing in this life. You know, we pass through life and we just don't have the ideal opportunity. So it behooves us to make whatever changes we feel we need to do to do it straight away, you know, if you're thinking about, you know, I've drifted away from the church, then don't, don't delay. You know, if there's some area of your life, which is, which is, you know, not, not sinful or not, not quite what you want it to be, try to change it straight away. You know, and one of the things he is saying, how much you would log for one extra day, one extra hour. I'm going to get there. That's so important. I think this also implies so much to human relationships, you know, that we, in areas of conflict, we think, you know, I could repair that relationship at some point in the future, when that person changes or whatever, but we should reflect each day, this might be the very last person, the last time that I see this particular person, you know, so, so to restore peace, this is something that comes through very strongly the rule of Saint Benedict as well. Yeah, I said to your quarrels very quickly, you know, do not let the sun go down on your wrath. There's a lot of kind of scriptural references to that. But on that, the point you were just making on page 51, there's a great quote is one of my favorites. I flagged it and I wanted to ask you about it here. This chapter is entitled the uncertainty of the last minute repentance and conversion. So it's uncertain because we don't know how God's going to respond. You cannot bank on your last minute. And this is something actually, which goes back to the time of Saint Augustine, and he talks about this in a lot of detail. And he says, you know, you can't rule out that a last minute repentance might be effective. But then from the point of view of the person making the repentance, how do you know that that repentance is actually sincere if you can't carry it out, if you can't fulfill it with subsequent deeds? And, you know, if you've lived a life of crime, this is like a far-fetched example. If you've lived a life of crime, and that at the very last moment say, you know, God, I'm sorry that I lived a life of crime. Well, are you really sorry? You know, if you don't have the opportunity to live for any longer after that and to repair things, then the sincerity of our repentance remains something which is completely uncertain. Well, that's why I like Aristotle is because his understanding of virtue and vice is one of habit. So, you know, you don't become virtuous overnight. You actually have to go through the stages of habituation. I mean, it's not just a resolution. It has to be, for a resolution to be meaningful, it has to be put into action. Yeah. And we're habitual animals. I mean, that's our human nature, right? We don't get, you didn't get good at piano just by reading a book on it. You know, you had to habituate your fingers to move in the right way. And virtues, the same thing, and vice is the same thing. This is why saints don't become horrific sinners overnight. And horrific centers usually don't become great saints overnight. Now, you have to make room for grace, you know, because God's grace can do something incredible. But that would be supernatural. The natural means of becoming holy is you have to form good habits. And that just takes time. You can't do it on your deathbed. And another thing which he points out is that a lot of people, when they reach their deathbed, the final stages, because they're often in a state of physical discomfort and impaired thought that they're actually not in that right position to be repenting seriously. You know, and I think this is something we have to make allowance for that, that we can't count on having our full spiritual faculties and strength during that last. Well, also, you're doing it almost under duress because you're scared. Yeah. You know, and so we have to, but this is a beautiful quote here on 51. He says, When I look back on my life, can I find one single day, which I have devoted entirely to the service of the Lord? Can I find one single hour, which I have dedicated completely to fulfilling the will of my Creator? Oh my God, I shall stand before you and before all the saints confused and embarrassed, anxiously awaiting my eternal sentence. I just find this language, Father, it's just, it's beautiful and compelling. And it just, it just stings your heart because he said, yeah, which one of us has really lived a single day or even a single hour? I mean, how many times an hour does Connor Gallagher's will insert itself and get me off track? I mean, it's embarrassing how much. So, I mean, given that we've lived like that, then he says, okay, when he's going to stand for his judgment, he's confused and embarrassed and he's anxiously awaiting, doesn't know what the sentence is going to be. You know, I, Father, I used to work as a law clerk to a federal judge and one of the main things that a federal judge does is issue sentences to criminals who have already been convicted by a jury or who have pled guilty to a crime. And there are some hefty sentences. I mean, we, we handed out life sentences to people. And so you see a guy standing there in the orange jumpsuit with the chains on, you know, hands and feet. And often his, his family is in the, in the audience, you know, in the courtroom, usually a mother or a grandmother, usually not a father present. And everybody is on pins and needles at that moment when the judge is about to issue his sentence. Yeah. And they've pled for mercy. Usually they've pled for mercy. And the criminals have a last statement and they say, basically, well, I've learned my lesson, you know, but the judge is going to issue a sentence and there's, you can hear a pen drop right before that happens. And, and when they get a tough sentence, the, the family melts down the mothers and the grandmothers, they will wail, oh, please don't, you know, they will wail out. And the criminals sometimes just drop their head and they realize at that point, there's nothing more they can say. And usually the criminals are escorted out very quietly. They've lost, it's over. There's no more way to, to fight this. And so it's a, it, it is kind of a human example of what our judgment will be like. It is, it is a human example. And not only will we be waiting that sentence, but all of the evidence will be on plain view to, to the whole of the heavenly court, all of the angels, all of the saints, all of our beloved dead, those people we've loved who've gone before us. And, and every single, you know, every single thought we've ever had, everything we've done in secret, everything on our phones, on our computers, it will all be completely exposed. You know, and you think if that was going to happen to, to you, to a person, a living person right now, now most people would feel even, even the most upright people would feel a little bit unconscious, a bit, you know, about secret thoughts and everything. You think, well, if people could read my mind, how would I feel? I'd be pretty, but this is going to be the case. It will be before God, before all of heaven, before all of creation. And this is, I think, a great, very sobering reminder to, to the fact that we're going to have to give account for every single thing which we do in this life. Of course, God is a merciful judge, but he's still a judge. Yeah. Yeah. So this man on his deathbed who a Kempis has created, he says the final part of that chapter, he says on 52, he says, my friends, listen to me now carefully. I implore you know that at this moment, I would rejoice more. This is amazing. I just found this to be the best sentence in the whole book, Father. I would rejoice more for one of you to say a single Hail Mary for the salvation of my poor soul than I would to receive an infinite treasure of gold and silver or to be granted sovereignty over all the kingdoms of earth. Now that, that, the clarity of that thought, you know, look at how much we do in this life to obtain certain things. And this poor soul who, who's fearing eternal judgment and has a sense of eternity before him would rather have one Hail Mary said for him than to have all the kingdoms of the world staggering. It is, it is. And it points to the awesome power of prayer as well. And particularly prayer for the deceased that we, you know, people who have passed from this life before us, the efficacy, what, what this means to them might, might seem like a tiny thing for us to say a Hail Mary for a departed soul. But you know, we don't know the eternal destination of anyone. And this, yeah, it's just quite staggering that he, that this outweighs and we think, well, this grace, this great treasure of grace outweighs all of these worldly things, even the subtotal of this whole world together. Yeah, yeah. And then the last chapter of this incredible work on chapter 10, a final exhortation to those who still live. And so this person on the deathbed continues his explanation of this. And on page 60, well, he's been telling us through this chapter to take, take his words very seriously, prepare for death, you know, learn how to die well. And he says here on page 60, he says, and there are swarms of demons hovering over my body, eagerly waiting to seize my soul. And then he continues in that paragraph, do not forget, oh God, that this is the same soul which you created in your own image for no other purpose than to praise you forever and ever and to partake in your infinite glory and bliss. Lord, remember that I am your child, albeit a wayward one, and do not abandon me to everlasting perdition. So this, I just find that amazing. Like he's talking to us, but then it's sort of like his last pleading to God. He's saying, don't forget God, you created me. Don't forget I'm your child. Please be merciful on me. I just, I find it very believable. I find it very believable that that's exactly the kind of thing we would be saying at our last minute. I think that's absolutely right. And when we, when we face that very dreadful moment of our soul departing from this body, you know, what's going to be our last prayer? Remember God that you created us for yourself. He created us for enjoying the bliss of, of, of heaven, of being united with him eternally. And in the end, it's his mercy, his grace, which we all depend upon. But everything which leads up to that, you know, to think, well, this is what it's going to be like. It really matters. Sin, virtue, our faithful, our fidelity to the gospel. It's going to be all called to account on that last day. And that day is one which none of us know, which could be, could be today, could be tomorrow, could be today. In good a campus fashion, remember this, this whole discussion really is about the spiritual master of Thomas a campus. And in good a campus fashion, he doesn't leave us with the fear of hell, but the glories of heaven. And so part three, you have translated the canticles to heaven. So why don't you just, you know, this is a series of poetry and they're beautiful. I'm not going to read, read it to you, but it's short and sweet and insightful. Tell us just a little bit about what these canticles are. Yeah. So, so these canticles are actually taken from a small collection of poetry written by Thomas a campus called, called the spiritual canticles. And these particular words reflecting on the joys of heaven were really, really touched me. And they're so uplifting that I knew that they had to go at the end of this book because on the whole, so this is a pretty frightening book. And, and so to finish on a positive note, a radiant note, which fills us with hope. And, you know, I love translating these, he writes his poetry in a way in Latin, which which all rhymes, which is, I think the main reason why it hasn't been translated into English before, because if you lose the rhyme, you lose the sense of it. But we get, you know, this, but you did it. Yeah. Well, you got them right. It's one of the things which I like doing. And I'll just finish here with how, how he concludes, O stargirt realm of bliss supreme, be thou our hope, be thou our dream in thy vast halls, O city blessed is untold peace, high heaven's rest, there shines pure light, ineffably our souls exult, forever free, to God alone be homage paid, whose wondrous love such things has made. It's a perfect way to finish. Well, it's been a great conversation on this amazing work, Meditations on Death by Thomas A. Kempis. Father, thank you for your work on this and for your interview today. I mean, this is one of my favorite 10 books now. You know, I mean, it's just an incredible, it's very short. It's very, you can get through it in an hour or so. But the depths you can, you can plunge the depths of this for hours and hours and hours. Oh, yeah. Well, I love translating this particular one. So I really encourage people to, to, to check it out, because it is a great masterpiece by Thomas A. Kempis, this, this incredible spiritual leader, and one of his most powerful works here, I think. So just newly bought to light. In our next episode, we're going to kind of do a recap of all this wonderful stuff we've talked about at Kempis. And we're going to talk about how he's a model for us becoming a saint. And so it'll be a nice summary of everything we've talked about. And I look forward to it. So thank you for being here, Father, and God bless you. Thank you, Carter. God bless you.