 Kako and welcome to the show. I'm Minara Mordecai, your host for the show policy for the people. Today, I'm delighted to welcome and be joined by Dr. Sara Mizban, founder and owner of Work in Progress Coaching. Aloha Sara. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm very excited to talk to you about creativity and mental health and all the goodness that come with it. Let's start with the, you know, the title of the show. Hi. You've coined the term creative wellness. Can you tell me more about what that means for you in your work? Sure. So creative wellness spawned from an initiative that I had launched for the Hawaii Arts Alliance. And it was, I have been working in arts education with the Alliance for a couple years. And we, and in arts education, we use the arts strategically in schools to help teachers use the arts to help their students get engaged and basically to utilize the arts in a way that allows for kids to be present in the room and to learn how to use these tools strategically in a way that helps them learn better. Learning, we know, is something that you have to be able to do. You can't do if you are coming into a classroom with a lot of other things going on your head. So the arts was a way to bring all the kids to the same table, you know. And so we were using the arts. I was going to say, so wellness, and we see this from education, you need to be well both physically and mentally to do well in school. Is that right? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's really hard for a kid who's come from a house that maybe has different difficulties and challenges to come and transition into a classroom and learn something and really intake the information that they're hearing. Oftentimes there are blocks when you are sitting in a classroom, you might be distracted. I mean, there's so many different defense and coping mechanisms that individuals experience in order to deal with trauma and stressful situations. And oftentimes, youth don't have these coping defenses because they haven't been trained and taught how to use them. And so often, students are coming into classrooms and struggling because they can't intake the information. And teachers are really trying to, and they're, you know, teachers, especially when you're working with priority or focus schools, schools that are lacking a lot of resources and are struggling to get their students to learn. They are also strapped. The teachers are struggling as well. So what we were doing is we were bringing in, and through, this was through a national program that was started by Michelle Obama called Turnaround Arts. And so we were using these programs to help teachers and teach teachers how to use the arts in their classrooms so that they can engage and really get their students to be able to learn and not only just learn, but it brings a lot of different qualities as well, you know, critical thinking, which is a huge thing that in American education, unfortunately, it's not really emphasized more about memorization and input output kind of concept. So the arts really allows for students of all backgrounds of all academic levels to come to the same table and learn in a way that's exciting and really engages them so that they can be able to learn and also caps into that emotional side of things too, so that they're also doing healing as they're learning because they're learning how to, they're building these strengths of we're learning how to critically think, we're learning how to collaborate with one another, we're learning how to communicate. It really forces students to think outside of just, you know, these kind of responses that we expect of them in terms of learning, but it really expands that so that they're not only just thinking about material, but they're thinking about, well, they're questioning that material and I think that's something that is incredibly critical in our educational systems these days and we just need more of it. So creative wellness spawned from this concept that, you know, these art programings are so important and they do tap into wellness and so how do we expand that even more and really utilize the arts and creativity to really expand wellness and mental health and support. You know, you've been in education as well and I've done some work in education, we know that traditionally schools focus a lot more physical health or providing resources for physical health with students rather than mental health. We see that changing with organizations like 10 around arts. What other initiatives did you see that really focus or bring to light the importance of mental health for the youth in their learning? Yeah, I mean, there's so much incredible work happening in Hawaii. I feel like I've been very fortunate to be exposed to lots of different nonprofits and different organizations throughout the island and islands that are really trying to bring in the arts to really address serious issues with youth. And for one example, like Hawaii women in filmmaking, they have a Girls Real program, Girls Real camp and we did, it's basically filmmaking and they address different issues that are pressing for youth and for everyone, but really obviously we know that the youth is such an important place for us to really be focusing on because that's obviously the future we have the ability to really impact their minds and they're everything but kind of holistic picture. So you know, these kind of programs are addressing topics that might be a little bit more taboo or difficult to talk about and we know that stigma is a huge, huge, huge factor into why people don't get services. Access is another one and lack of, there's a shortage of services. As much as there are people doing things, there's a lot of silos and they tend to like people are working within their silos and there tends to be so much emphasis in like urban areas where places like outside and you know a little bit more further out from the center like Honolulu will have less access to these things and I see a lot of organizations really trying to expand that but it always comes back down to funding and the difficulty in gaining funding for these kind of more alternative ways of addressing more serious issues. Great, so I'm going to hold on to that thought for a minute. I'll come back to it when we talk about policies but right now I want to switch to options that are available adults and you did mention that access has been an issue but from what I've seen and you've probably been exposed to that too, you've done extensive research in creativity and psychology for your dissertation and recently we've seen proliferation of creative outlets for adults such as coloring books and paint and wine parties, creative movement dance classes, so things like that that seems minor but really are popular and growing in popularity. What do you think of this performance? Why are they so popular? Why do people gravitate to these services? Yeah, I mean listen the arts, creativity, these things have meditation, I mean these things have been a part of our history for thousands of years. I mean these are not new concepts that are being utilized now it's just that now they're kind of coming back to into more mainstream society and people are recognizing the importance of these these tools in helping manage this crazy world that we live in. I mean just take this last year and a half for example, I mean we you know someone mentioned that COVID was a time for that they thought they were I mean there's a lot of isolation of course so people felt like they were really faced with themselves and that could be a scary thing for for people who usually tend to just kind of power through their days and you know every day is just go go go and you don't really have a time to sit and think about your life and whatnot and so you know people were really kind of struggling this this time frame to manage all the emotions and things that were coming up for them in relationship to the kind of greater societal anxiety that was being felt so I feel like there was there's been you know an increase in people understanding the importance of being able to find alternative ways to to address issues that might be going on within oneself within one's family and so we're recognizing slowly the importance of these tools in in our own kind of day to day healing and management emotional management and so you know it's it's just kind of it kind of scratches the surface of my opinion I think the real work will always come into systemic change you know I think we really have to build an infrastructure that supports wellness within all of our different systems like the DOE the DOH I mean of course Department of Health Department of Education and I think that there is you know this is where we can really grow I mean sometimes it feels a little hopeless that these systems are in place and it's really hard but when you see that there is this kind of interest that has grown in using different artistic strategies to help oneself and in in our own growing we can recognize the importance of being able to kind of expand that into other systems that are kind of established in our in our society that's a perfect segment my next question actually we see that these programs are working in one way or another people do gravitate towards them and they feel good afterwards but if they are expensive like taking the dance classes and taking the art classes and not everyone has access to it so how do you think the state or the city like the city of Honolulu what can they do to create greater access so that people can participate without worrying about affordability yeah I mean there's been a lot of programs coming out of museums I mean hi Sam, hi Hawaii State Art Museum, Honolulu Museum of Art they're all trying to create programming that do kind of address this topic of wellness through the use of the arts I mean there was a program called SoundShop that was started by some hip-hop artists in Hawaii that it's really incredible because it brings in writing it brings in music it brings the community I mean they're working with schools I mean they're so incredible they even bring you know bring buses for students you know so they really take that pressure off of the schools in order for them to be able to participate in programs like this and they bring them to the museum something that a lot of students in the more rural areas of Hawaii are not able to do and so it really there's in a there is you know that that kind of access and then really bringing them together and kind of working with these students to help them push them out of their comfort zone and and to really help them grow utilizing writing and music and hip-hop and something that can kind of be seen as like cool you know for you that you know who are who are and and a lot of these these teachers I mean Punahele comes from like the the west side and they can resonate and relate to and see someone that's doing something and making a change in on the island and you know and can kind of use that as a mentorship you know and so Punahele has come to there's just some of the schools that we worked with and and just turn around arts and so you know it's just like the resources are there I think the hardest part is really it again it comes to comfort zone and like the change that it takes and the shifting of thinking that it requires in order to recognize that um yeah this is a little bit different and it's not like this traditional way of doing things but there's so much value in in this kind of work and you know there's no because art art therapy for instance you know there's no certification and training here in Hawaii so people have to go to the mainland or people are coming from the mainland who have gotten you know some training but there's no sort of infrastructure infrastructure here in Hawaii that kind of supports this work and I think that's where you know there could be some some growth where you know there was a task force with some music therapists that really wanted to be able to bring local chapters of national organizations arts organizations that art therapy and they are you know trying to get these things on the island so that it tracks more people here and also builds some legitimacy to this this kind of work and it really works I mean there are people doing this kind of work and with veterans with PTSD I mean there's been so much that had that we've seen it being effective that really at this point you know we need to start taking a chance and bringing these programings in with much more you know an increase in them because it's if there's so much power in them that I think it's really a shame that they're not more prevalent in throughout throughout I mean the country but you know I think especially in a state like Hawaii where there are so many incredible artists and it's just part of culture that you know even the concept of Pono Pono is like is is fertile ground for being able to talk about the concept of wellness and through the eyes of place-based work and I think these kind of things really can bring to light and it stays authentic to you know the the populations that we're working with and I think there just needs to be so much more of that and if we can get these kind of siloed work that's been happening and kind of combine them in these bigger agencies like the Department of Education Department of Health there's some of it happening but it's very kind of it's it's minimal so it sounds like there are opportunities out there we just they're not fully funded or there's not a lot of awareness about them so maybe one of the things that the state state can do is ensure that there is sufficient funding towards existing programs and then perhaps also creating public awareness campaigns around that but the other issue brought up early in the show which is what I want to come back to is that there's one of the issues that they're just not as many mental health providers that in itself you know to have a culture or therapist that can guide you and make you aware of the resources that are available and that's not unique in Hawaii but we are talking about what the state can do here for us. How do you think the current laws and policies make it challenging to become a mental health provider in Hawaii? Have you faced some of those challenges as a coach yourself? Yeah I mean Hawaii has some pretty rigorous requirements and and I think that's a great thing I don't think it's problematic because I think that it's a difficult field of course you're working with some high needs and very high risk situations and so you really have to have free training I mean that's a given but I do think that it can be hard so for instance you know my background is from my educations in California so in order to come here and practice there is a different licensing requirement that is more than what it was in California so you know I would have to reapply and re-enroll into a school in order to get hours that that you know that discrepancy between what California and Hawaii is and so it makes it kind of challenging for even someone like me who really wanted to during the pandemic when I started my business it was really just to be able to provide extra services for the population and my community because I could see how important and necessary it was during the pandemic to be able to support people more extensively and so I think that there are those limitations that make it really challenging to feel confident going forward with with schooling and being able to to game but I do get the under I do understand why these things are in place because it is such a it's a very sensitive field and you really have to have a lot of training in order to be and really strong training not just any kind of thing so I understand why Hawaii does that I wonder if there would be ways in order for you know even if there were alternative options for instance and you know like that art therapy background in order to get some sort of certification so that there is you know alternative ways you don't have to go the traditional route like I did where you're in you know formal graduate program where you're able to you know where you have to do you know however many three thousand in California so hours to be able to practice so you know not to say that you shouldn't have formal training but there's you know being able to offer other ways of doing things could really increase the amount of support that we are able to give to to our community and also as I said there could be you know there are so many practitioners and artists that really are already doing some some of this kind of therapeutic work it's not therapy per se so we have to be careful to distinguish between those things but they still have healing benefits and therapeutic benefits that you know if we could find other ways to be able to provide alternative sport it could also be a way for us to access get to provide more access to to our community and it seems like it would be preventative too right if you create this middle level of therapeutic services and providers people may not end up feeling completely in in anxious or depressed state where they have to seek a professional therapist so the middle ground where you have providers who provide services like arts and therapeutic and engagement and initiatives that could be preventative and I know for example some of the Kuna who can be trained in talking to the youth or talking to family members in providing that kind of training so it sounds like there's room for something in the middle an alternative model and of course there's still need for professional therapists and training but we can also create opportunities for the middle level of therapy and wellness do you feel like there's room for us to build these programs or certifications in community colleges and is this something that you've seen conversations about you know I haven't seen it so much within university or college level as much as I have heard for professional development in you know educate in like early education and more middle high elementary middle high school there is that opportunity with department of education to be because you know they have a whole a very extensive professional development program that allows teachers to be able to take classes outside of their you know their own classrooms and expand their own learning get credits CEOs and to even enhance their level of being in the academic world financially and and so I think that most of the work that I've heard is to really focus on that professional development within the that realm but I think that there is absolutely room for that to be happening in in college and even through teachers preparation you know if we were to work with UH when you're with the education department I mean there are already teachers in the education department at UH that are trying to do this work but if we were to even expand that more you know there's there's it's very particular there's that one teacher or that two those two teachers that you know are trying to kind of get the word out that utilizing the arts can really help in more than just this kind of kind and you know it's not about being an artist when it comes to therapeutic arts and you know it's not about taking classes I it's not you know in becoming like a being professional with it you know I think of course there's it's incredible when people want to pursue that but this is not that this is not about art for art's sake this is art for wellness sake and really utilizing it as a strategy as a tool to to tap into a deeper place and to really expand our own understanding of ourselves and the way that we interact with the world around us so I think that there's plenty of room to grow and I think that now we're seeing how important the arts can be that you know utilize that as momentum to kind of push forward and seeing how we can really utilize the arts to expand what we already have in place our the systems that we already have in place. Yeah so it seems like while we are doing great work with training the teachers and focusing on the youth adults especially adults who may not have the disposable income to get access to some of these services are being left behind and COVID highlighted some of how problematic it can be to be feel alone and isolated so I think what you're suggesting is great in fact I feel like you're teaching some of the certification with your background and your experience and you've done a lot of work in the arts community around Honolulu so just to wrap up can you tell me more about different kinds of organizations and the work that you've done and the the positive hopeful outcomes that you're seeing are to come? Yeah I mean again there's so many nonprofits out there and just individuals that see the benefit I mean there's you know there's an organization called Sounding Joy that's a music therapy organization and they're very well established but just small teams because again the access and the shortage of things so you know something like Sounding Joy is such a wonderful program and you know it's kind of that combination with their their certified music therapists you know Flow Couple is another organization that's movement-based dance-based but is really tapping into utilizing these these strategies of dance and movement to help youth find themselves learn about themselves connect with one another and so I think that you know it's great to see I mean organizations like Hi Sam they did a story they did a petrocucha on the topic of mental health they will beat did a storytellers on understanding mental illness I mean you see these organizations that really understand the value of it and finding ways artistic creative ways to be able to address this really kind of stigmatized and difficult topic of mental illness and I hope that we can continue these kind of programings to really break down this concept that that therapy is you know only for people that have issues we all have issues I mean like let's be real I mean we are human and we're within this we're having this human experience together we need to be okay with talking about these things and we can do so creatively thank you so much this is really interesting I learned a lot and for me this is this is hopeful this is good news that we're moving in the right direction once again I was speaking with Dr. Sara Minsbon thank you so much for joining us and I will see you next time take care and aloha